Porn for Women

April 9, 2007 2:41 PM

Porn for Women is a new photo book by the Cambridge Women's Pornography Collective that asserts that what really turns women on is a man who cleans the house and asks for directions. Others disagree. (All links SFW.)
posted by desjardins (58 comments total)

From the last link - ...making me dinner should be a standard, not something I fantasize about

How about preparing a gourmet dinner naked with flour accentuating finely honed muscles and oil gleaming on strong manicured hands by the soft warm light of a clay oven while singing a flowing melody in a foreign language, eyes drinking you in while you drink a fine vintage?
posted by porpoise at 2:51 PM on April 9, 2007 [5 favorites]

Some-people-just-don't-recognize-a-joke-when-they-see-one-filter.
posted by muddgirl at 2:52 PM on April 9, 2007 [2 favorites]

The CWPC makes lousy porn .
posted by nola at 2:53 PM on April 9, 2007

Will fold laundry for sex!
posted by caddis at 2:57 PM on April 9, 2007

How about I just rub my cock on the groceries? Is that close enough for grudging sexual congress?
posted by klangklangston at 2:58 PM on April 9, 2007 [10 favorites]

what really turns women on is a man who cleans the house

Any man that's been in a live-in relationship for longer than 2 years knows this well, unless he's completely oblivious.
posted by psmealey at 3:02 PM on April 9, 2007

What really turns women on is a massive sweeping generality or stereotype double-dipped in gold and chocolate and strapped over the pool boy's mouth.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:15 PM on April 9, 2007 [7 favorites]

Island worker: How can I fulfill your fantasy?
Sheila Kingston: Go paint my house!
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on April 9, 2007

I know this is bullshit because I am not, and by this criteria should be, the sexiest MOFO on earth.
posted by Muddler at 3:22 PM on April 9, 2007

Wait just a second. It was my understanding, from years of porn research, that fixing a woman's cable and/or delivering her pizza was WAY more sexy than cleaning her bathroom. CWPC, please advise.
posted by billysumday at 3:28 PM on April 9, 2007 [2 favorites]

I've never seen my wife masturbate while watching me clean the house or cook dinner, so either those actions aren't porn, or she doesn't know how to use porn correctly.
posted by Bugbread at 3:44 PM on April 9, 2007 [5 favorites]

This is really exploitative.
posted by grobstein at 3:50 PM on April 9, 2007

What the hell is the CWPC. Never heard of them around here and they don't seem to have a web presence. This sounds a little astroturfy to me.
posted by allen.spaulding at 3:57 PM on April 9, 2007

Not Tonight, Dear: "Joan Sewell talks about her new book, I'd Rather Eat Chocolate, and the politically incorrect reality that most married women just aren't that into sex"

The enormous difference in sex drives between men and women (on average) is a troubling aspect of human nature. I suspect when we start tinkering with the genome, perhaps in the next 5 decades, this will be 'corrected' but according to whose interests?

I suspect parents would choose to make their daughters less horny, which would generally be good for the parents, who worry about this stuff, but would create even more of a socially harmful gender imbalance. But what if the state intervenes? Would the state make women more horny and men less horny as part of a larger intervention to reduce gender inequality? Or would it drastically reduce the sex drive of both genders to control disease, rape, and population expansion, etc? Or would it raise the sex drives of women or both genders to cause pregnancies, etc, to boost population?
posted by dgaicun at 4:05 PM on April 9, 2007 [2 favorites]

Aahh, I dunno. I think it’s a social thing not biological.
...Unless I’ve got the supercock...
*considers*
Yeah, that must be it. My wife and I have a great sex life because I’ve got the supercock.

I mean that’s gotta be a big hunka the problem with the research is the male ego.
Plus the porn for women book is pretty obviously tongue in cheek (as opposed to where it would be were it to actually turn women on).
posted by Smedleyman at 4:22 PM on April 9, 2007

Smedleyman, it's my experience that tongues in cheeks do a perfectly good job of turning women on.
posted by oddman at 4:41 PM on April 9, 2007

What is this GeezerFilter?

I assume this is for my mother and others of her 50-65 year old age cohort to see in the bookstore and cackle at. Perhaps to purchase and give as a gag gift and chuckle at for 3 minutes before it gets put in the goodwill bag.

Wake me when the old people have died and we don't have to deal with the "men and women are idiots" memes any longer.


In other news:

Women like Sex!

Many women even like visual porn!
posted by django_z at 4:43 PM on April 9, 2007 [3 favorites]

Some-people-just-don't-think-a-hyper-lame-reactionary-conceit-constitutes-a-joke-filter.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:25 PM on April 9, 2007

What is this GeezerFilter?

Right, because it sucks if it's not targeted at my demographic. Not that this is a particularly good FPP, but that's a shitty fucking attitude.
posted by Flem Snopes at 5:49 PM on April 9, 2007

I dunno, I find it hilarious, and at 30, I hope I don't fall into the geezer demographic.

Is it unfair stereotyping? Sure. Is it over the top? You bet. And that's what makes it cute and charming. And until every last man cleans the house without being asked it still will be.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 6:25 PM on April 9, 2007

Wow. In the future, anyone searching for posts tagged with "porn" and "women" is gonna be disappointed.
posted by SoftRain at 6:44 PM on April 9, 2007

The enormous difference in sex drives between men and women (on average) is a troubling aspect of human nature.

Oh evo-bio Just So stories, see what thou has wrought.

Substitute "social conditioning" for the last two words, and we're agreed. Just ponder this; why are there such strict laws punishing *women* for adultery if women never want to stray because they don't like Teh Sex? In the middle ages, women were supposed to be the weak, sex-addled gender. Men, being superior beings, were therefore more moral and better at the whole asceticism thing. Later, fashions changed, and suddenly women's "nature" was too delicate for sex (unless they were whores/slaves/low status women, who proved their low status by liking sex).

And today, in most parts of the world, liking and pursuing sex, for women, equals death. Oh, and pregnancy, but also death. You don't need to posit some mythical cavewoman's frigidity to understand why women might be reluctant to have sex in a pre-birth-control world, or a society where they could be stoned to death. If schtupping the neighbor's daughter almost always earned you a trip to castration-town or a quick stoning, you might have a bit of reluctance about it yourself. Oddly, men seldom seem to suffer the same kinds of consequences in these matters.

In other words, women may fake it with a given guy, but not because they've got some biological off switch. More likely, he's just a lousy lover, or beats her, or is someone she met five minutes before being forced to marry him, or any number of very good reasons that have nothing to do with biology and everything to do with patriarchy.
posted by emjaybee at 6:52 PM on April 9, 2007 [10 favorites]

Wow! Are you sure the axe you've been grinding is sharp enough to chop down all of those straw men?
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:32 PM on April 9, 2007

why are there such strict laws punishing *women* for adultery if women never want to stray because they don't like Teh Sex?

My wife and I have a great sex life because I’ve got the supercock.

Saying women have a comparatively lower sex drive on average, is not saying that all women do not have sex drive. Can you understand the difference? I bolded the words on average above for a reason. The words unfortunately can never be bold enough to cut through the ideological blinders.

Oh evo-bio Just So stories, see what thou has wrought

Actually, I never mentioned the whys'z, just the is'z. I certainly don't feel insecure about the is'z because I know the literature - men have higher sex drives, on average than women. How do we know this? Through their self-reports and their behavior, across time and place.

Women have fewer sexual fantasies, they masturbate less, they report lower levels of desire, they consume much less pornography, they are much more content with their sex lives. (men across all ages and relationship types report they are getting less sex than they want, while women are getting either more than or as much as they want). Lesbian relationships contain much less sex than straight relationships while gay male relationships contain more. Lesbian relationships dwindle in sexual frequency much faster as the relationship ages as well (after 10 years lesbian relationships contain much less sex than straight or gay relationships). At the tails of the distribution, sexual dysfunctions involving low libido and loss of desire are far more prevalent among women than men.

. . . this is all on average. Understand?

More likely. . . very good reasons that have nothing to do with biology and everything to do with patriarchy.


Is it social. In part, sure. Entirely, of course not. Male sex hormones have an increasingly understood role in libido. Male to female transsexuals approach female levels of fantasy and desire with their hormone treatments, while female to male transsexuals experience the opposite. Hormone studies with animals show similar effects.
posted by dgaicun at 7:36 PM on April 9, 2007 [3 favorites]

Hmm... I don't think this book is quite cliché enough. Could we also throw in a bit about how men are dumb and like to watch football and eat nachos too? kthx
posted by clevershark at 7:46 PM on April 9, 2007

The book is simply titled, "Porn for Women," and consists of hot, sensitive men who are supposed to be a woman's wet dream. For example, one page features a guy reading the sports section of the paper saying, “Ooh, look, the NFL playoffs are today. I bet we'll have no trouble parking at the crafts fair.” Yes, there are also speech bubbles. Hot.


"I bet we'll have no trouble parking at the crafts fair."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by jason's_planet at 9:04 PM on April 9, 2007

I don't think I know any women that want to go to a crafts fair.
posted by Talanvor at 9:48 PM on April 9, 2007

Wow! Are you sure the axe you've been grinding is sharp enough to chop down all of those straw men?

Cut right through all the ones I could think of off the top of my head. You have any others?
posted by voltairemodern at 10:11 PM on April 9, 2007

Hey! You project your *own* strawmen!

I'm too busy concocting a response to emjaybee, thwarting her lesbian parthenogenic agenda, in which men are reduced to derided & patronised wage-slave drones through the cynical manipulation of their sexual desires by pussy-whip-armed feminazis.
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:34 PM on April 9, 2007

(All links SFW.)

This offends all my delicate sensibilities.
posted by blackturtleneck at 10:35 PM on April 9, 2007

Male sex hormones have an increasingly understood role in libido.

I was waiting for you to get to that bit. But biological differences are so outré.

Give a man who is within the standard range of testosterone levels more testosterone: no effect.
Give a man with reduced levels of testosterone more testosterone: increased sex drive.
Give a woman (whose levels of testosterone are naturally lower) testosterone: increased sex drive.

But of course it's all social.
posted by dreamsign at 12:10 AM on April 10, 2007

dgaicun, thanks for the link to that Atlantic article - I really enjoyed it and am going to buy that woman's book. She really echoes my own experiences there.
posted by beth at 12:53 AM on April 10, 2007

I thought this part was brilliant:

Compromise is something all counselors and sexperts and most people say is part and parcel of a marriage. But there’s something about compromising your body—it’s a different category. If you have sex when you don’t desire it, physically desire it, you are going to feel used. Now, you can trick yourself for a while into thinking, “Well, I’m giving this to him as a gift from me. This is my loving gift to him.” But it’s like my friend Holly says, do it enough times, just do it enough times, and you’re going to build a resentment that’s slowly going to take over the relationship, no matter how much you smile during it.
posted by beth at 12:55 AM on April 10, 2007

That looks amisng. Some friends of mine are getting married in september... I'm really tempted to get it as a wedding present.
posted by algreer at 1:04 AM on April 10, 2007

aaarrrggghhh i meant emusing or ahmusing, or amusng. Oops.
posted by algreer at 1:05 AM on April 10, 2007

Dear AskMe, what if I don't find a picture of a man hoovering the carpet sexy, unless he's dressed as a hot housewife with a blonde wig, but with moustaches, and he's gay, and he's singing 'I've got to break free from your lies you're so self satisfied I don't need you', and he's dead, too? What's wrong with me, should I get therapy, a sex change, a black macbook, or is it something testosterone injections alone should cure? thanks in advance, you fabulous hive mind!
posted by pleeker at 2:12 AM on April 10, 2007 [2 favorites]

Fantastic, the New York Times science section published a series of articles on sexual desire today to reinforce my posts. Feminist science journalist Natalie Angier writes:

"Whether. . . in North America, Latin America, Britain, Western Europe or Japan. . . men on average report having a higher sex drive than women. . . Some researchers say that on average, male sexual desire is not only stronger than women’s, but also more constant from hour to hour, day to day. They point to a significant body of research suggesting a certain cyclic nature to female desire, and some say women only begin to attain masculine heights of lustiness during the few days of the month that they are fertile. . . Men, by contrast, are generally fecund all month long, and they are theoretically ever anxious to share that bounty with others, a state of perpetual readiness that Roy F. Baumeister, a psychology professor at Florida State University, described as “the tragedy of the male sex drive.”"

As I said above, it is really a sad aspect of human nature, that the sexes are so different in an area so fundamental to their interaction.

Repeating my claim about male sex hormones, another article in the series notes:

". . . the real libido hormone, for both men and women, is testosterone, which women produce in their ovaries and adrenal glands."

More testosterone, more horny.
posted by dgaicun at 2:26 AM on April 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

Look, if you're all going to get so serious and start quoting academic research, let me just advance the non-researched suggestion that maybe the annoying tendency to deny even hormonal differences between men and women and attribute everything to cultural and social conditioning is easily offset by the equally annoying tendency to think hormones automatically equate or dictate behaviour.

In other words, say you're the horniest horny man on earth, and you're horny from hour to hour, day to day of your waking life, and sometimes even in your sleep. Now let's posit a scenario in which you're not Hugh Hefner or some hypothetical millionaire with nothing to do all day but fuck around and drink martinis. You have a job. You have friends. You have some interests and hobbies, even if it's just watching football. You also sometimes just like to do nothing and relax. And you like to sleep, too. How would your day be like if your incredible testosteronally charged sex drive was the one thing dictating your behaviour? Even supposing you had one or more female partners ready and willing to enjoy your super sex machine at any given time of the day, hour to hour, day to day. Yeah baby. Rock'n'roll. Now let's get back to where we were: job, friends, sleep, eat, drink, football, things to do, places to see, people to talk to, metafilter posts to be posted, etc. Where's the hormones now, hm? Still sure the tragedy is the average woman's sex drive being less constant day to day hour to hour?

Now, sex and marriage, that's something else. Only gay marriage can save the day and give us more cheerful statistics.
posted by pleeker at 3:16 AM on April 10, 2007

Oh, so that's why bonobo's nests are so tidy.
posted by DenOfSizer at 3:28 AM on April 10, 2007

easily offset by the equally annoying tendency to think hormones automatically equate or dictate behaviour

Hmm, I didn't see anyone making any such extreme claim here.

Still sure the tragedy is the average woman's sex drive being less constant day to day hour to hour?

Yep. Being unable to do things you want to do as much as you want to do them is not as tragic as being compelled / pressured / forced to deliver sex when you don't want to.

It may be hard for someone who wants sex any time it is available to understand just what is involved in giving up one or more orifices for someone else's pleasure on demand. And it's not just the physical, actually. There's a lot of pressure to "perform", as in, put on a sexual persona for awhile, "play along", pretend to be interested and aroused, and so forth, that requires a kind of abdication of self not called for in, say, the sort of tasks one must grudgingly do in an office job or something.

And a lot of this is not explicit - it can be very subtle and assumed.

Plus there's the whole issue of just how much effort is required to satisfy one's partner. When you feel like you've given it all you can reasonably be expected to give, and your partner is still not getting off, well, it can feel oppressive. And yes, I realize it may not be the partner's fault at all, but the fact that the whole situation is at its heart unwilling on the other end just makes it ten times worse.

But I'm just thinking of those times (and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought such things) where my inner dialog is going something like: "God, this is taking forever. Is he even going to get off at all? My hands/mouth/vagina is/are getting sore. How long do I have to keep trying til I can quit without him resenting me too much?".

Yes, I'm bitter.
posted by beth at 4:26 AM on April 10, 2007

My recently discovered kitchen abilities (making bread, making pasta and brown cooking meat (look ma, no burn!) without poisoning anybody or scaring the cat) apparently are VERY appreciated and complimented by females in my house and by their girlfriends.

Incredibily enough, another 30 something girl I know who is all pretty and proper and glamour , borderlining distate for any manual job (she would never let herself be caught bringing trash to trashcan) is apparently somehow fascinated by my "mad" kneading skillz, as she watched attently and had a curious look on her face, a mona lisa smile and eyes glossing to cuteoverload proportions.

There's something about kneading !
posted by elpapacito at 4:46 AM on April 10, 2007

what really turns women on is a man who cleans the house

TMIFilter: I learned to vacuum the house wearing an old pair of UDT trunks (short shorts) and a knowing leer after the first time I was told "Jeez, do you ever look hot when you do housework!" It gave the old Southern expression "I clean up real good" a whole new meaning for me.

beth,

Sometimes one has to kind of stop, step back and talk to one's partner about this stuff. If it's not working, there's always "manual override," and an understanding partner ought to be gracious enough to settle for burger and fries once in a while if the filet mignon's too much trouble.

No wonder you're bitter; it sounds like somebody hadn't progressed far beyond adolescence, bedroom-wise. I bet this person was selfish in other contexts too.

One bad thing, since this original thread started off to be about porn, is when there's a double standard afoot -- "I can have my quasi-Victorian steamy novels here behind the headboard, but no, you can't have a Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue, let alone a Playboy subscription, because that's different." All the communication in the world can't get past values differences and control battles, sadly.

epapacito, roger the kneading. If I get another steady, I'm going to volunteer to do the baking again.
posted by pax digita at 4:57 AM on April 10, 2007

No wonder you're bitter; it sounds like somebody hadn't progressed far beyond adolescence, bedroom-wise. I bet this person was selfish in other contexts too.

Well here's the thing: nobody came right out and demanded anything of me. It was just assumed, really. I knew what would be required of me to keep the guy happy, so I did it. And resented it.

Anyway, I loathe that feeling - of being expected to step up to the plate and satisfy someone sexually when you'd rather do anything else in the world. Sadly, I know it well. I probably didn't handle those situations as well as I could have, but I just didn't have the sex drive, and I cared about trying to keep my partner content (at least until the resentment grew to be too much).

In the future I plan on dealing with things in a much healthier way. There's a level where it's fair to expect someone to at least inch forward a bit with their sexual willingness, but obviously such things can be taken too far, and either partner feeling resentful is poison for the relationship. Also obvious is that each couple (or triad, what-have-you) needs to come to their own accomodation, and that can take many forms, etc etc etc.

When I was reading the reviews for the Joan Sewell book at amazon.com, I was struck and saddened (but not surprised) by how many of the negative reviewers seem to think that a man is simply entitled to as much sex as he wants from his woman, that it's her duty, and that any questioning of this meant that the man was being completely discounted and abused.

Overall what I find validating is the idea that a low libido is not a defect, and does not automatically mean that the person with the low libido is obligated to change. It sounds so simple but I guess I just hadn't seen it expressed this way before. I don't have the book yet but I'm looking forward to reading it.

And for what it's worth, I'm happily single, and will most likely stay this way for a very long time. I'm not going to put myself through that shit again, and if I do seek a partner, it will not be the kind of person who would expect that of me.
posted by beth at 5:38 AM on April 10, 2007

Women generally get off on men being considerate. I'll admit I felt all warm, fuzzy, and protected when I came home from work today to find that my boo had straightened up the living room and washed the dishes. We can attribute this to biology, if you want, but I'm sure men feel it too - isn't that why Sexy Nurses or French Maids are such archetypes of male sexual desire? Maids and Nurses take care of you; your needs are first in their mind. When a dude cleans without nagging, he's saying, "I've been thinking about you, and about us, and about what makes you happy." Who doesn't get off on that?
posted by muddgirl at 5:59 AM on April 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

that book - by Joan Sewell - sounds interesting. Those cultural mores seem to be embedded in most men, no matter the age. Sexism, it seems, it really alive and well...
posted by willthethrill at 6:51 AM on April 10, 2007

beth, I was being lighthearted, and was definitely not thinking of any ugly situations of feeling 'compelled / pressured / forced to deliver sex' because I think that's one thing that has very little to do with the hormones thing.

That's what I meant, hormonal differences are not insignificant but they are also not so deterministic as that quote about 'the tragedy of the male sex drive' suggests. The sad or tragic part in the kind of situation you're talking about is somewhere else than in different levels of testosterone, don't you think?
posted by pleeker at 7:48 AM on April 10, 2007

There were two studies that I found interesting:
1. Women tend to dress more provocatively at their most fertile period.
2. For a large percentage of times, when couples have sex for the first time, the woman gets pregnant.

Does the couple have a sixth sense, or is the woman just more interested in sex when she's fertile?

When you think about it, that's the only way it can really work.

The goal (from the biological point of view) is for the woman to get pregnant. Given that she's only fertile for a few days a month, it really doesn't make sense for her to be all that interested in sex for the rest of the time. For those few days, though, watch out!

But this only works if the man is always interested in sex.

There is no tragedy here. This is how it works.
posted by eye of newt at 8:09 AM on April 10, 2007

muddgirl, so on the mark with the nurses and maids. Wasn't it Betty Friedan who wrote the I Need a Wife essay? All couples should know that is why they are coupled, to care for each other. The helping hand wherever, whenever, is always returned with a helping hand in the bedroom. Doing something for someone else even though you don't enjoy it, is the way we show our love. Hard to do for a long time, for the same person. Rare. Sex shouldn't be that chore, however.
posted by SMP at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2007

EoN - as beth is trying to explain, the "tragedy" is in all of the social constructions that are built up around sex drives. The Victorian idea that your husband will come to your bed when he's ready, that you should "lie back and think of England." The modern assumption that women have no sex drive, or a huge sex drive, or that their withholding sex out of petulance, or that they should have sex as often as their mate desires.

Men are oppressed by it, too - the entire social and commercial stigmatization of erectile dysfunction! A Real Man can "get it up" anytime, anywhere. Your woman will think less of you if you can't satisfy her. She might even leave you!

It's all completely constructed, of course. Just one more human hang-up that's 50% biology and 50% society.
posted by muddgirl at 9:11 AM on April 10, 2007

Different drives probably = biology.

Some marital discomfort ajusting to differnt drives = normal life

Inability to ajust (Either or both parties) = imaturity and bad communication
posted by BeerGrin at 9:31 AM on April 10, 2007

"Men are oppressed by it, too " - Mudgirl

Thank you Mudgirl. I actually think that men are more oppressed by their own biology then by social expectation.

Not that many of guys us stop and think about it, but we don't necessarily WANT to be Horney. It can be a huge and unwanted distraction. If the media does anything oppressive to men, I think it's more the bombardment of sexy things for the sake of sales. I'd rather not constantly have my buttons pushed by any and every jackass trying to sell me something.
posted by BeerGrin at 9:40 AM on April 10, 2007

What the hell is the CWPC. Never heard of them around here and they don't seem to have a web presence. This sounds a little astroturfy to me.

I think the Cambridge Women's Pornography Collective was intended as a parodic reference to the Boston Women's Health Book Collective, which has kept the feminist health manual, Our Bodies, Ourselves, in print for several decades now. It's less an example of astroturf than a lame "granola-munching hippie feminists LOL!" joke.
posted by jonp72 at 10:04 AM on April 10, 2007

Sometimes one has to kind of stop, step back and talk to one's partner about this stuff. If it's not working, there's always "manual override," and an understanding partner ought to be gracious enough to settle for burger and fries once in a while if the filet mignon's too much trouble.

I think one of the difficulties, if I may intrude in the dialogue, is that although many men say that they want their partners to discuss these matters with them, often what they are really saying is "tell me how wonderful I am". This obviously isn't universal, but I've had it happen more than once that a man who wanted "open communication" was infuriated by even the most non-threatening, most understanding requests.

That ties into the issue of control, as others have said. The saying "I support gay marriage if it's two hot chicks" may be meant as humour, but look at the underlying idea behind the joke: even women who don't like men are only allowed to be sexual if random male strangers approve. Look at the men who have gigs of lesbian porn on their hard drives but who are disgusted - disgusted!! I tell you - at the idea that women might want to watch or read about men boinking each other. It's as if they assume that sex is only what turns them on.

Overall what I find validating is the idea that a low libido is not a defect, and does not automatically mean that the person with the low libido is obligated to change.

I don't think it's that simple. It doesn't seem that it's the partner with the low libido who is forced to change; in a heterosexual relationship, it's the woman. Now part of this is that a man is never allowed to admit he's got a low libido. Most of my partners have had lower sex drives than I do but they felt compelled to brag about their cocksmanship to their buddies at all times.

Behind closed doors, however, it often seems to be the woman's fault alone when sex drives don't match. If she has the higher drive she's a slut, a whore, an emasculating bitch who's pressuring him too much (and probably the sole cause of his low libido for one reason or another - looks, weight, voice, whatever excuse he wants to pull out of his hat). If he has the higher drive, she's frigid and should just put up and shut up because a man in a relationship has a right to have sex whenever he wants.

Those who bring up biology (especially those who do using pithy yet worthless phrases such as "get over it") should also realize that women are as socialized about sexuality as men. When I wrote, "Most of my partners have had lower sex drives than I do", I almost added a qualifier pointing out that I was a geezer and therefore apt to have more partners than the average 20-year-old. What man would have to point out their age as a mitigating factor in having had sex with more than two or three women? A man who likes sex is normal, but a woman who likes sex is a filthy dirty horrible sub-human whore...but what's her number again?
posted by watsondog at 10:41 AM on April 10, 2007 [3 favorites]

aha! no wonder we try to keep the gay guys and multiple wived mormons down.
posted by hatchetjack at 11:55 AM on April 10, 2007

If she has the higher drive she's a slut, a whore, an emasculating bitch who's pressuring him too much (and probably the sole cause of his low libido for one reason or another - looks, weight, voice, whatever excuse he wants to pull out of his hat).

Wow. Suddenly I really appreciate my boyfriend. This issue has come up with us (doesn't it with everyone?), but he has never approached it with anything like that attitude. We're just different, end of story.

Of course, he vacuums, so perhaps that's why I'm always hot and bothered.
posted by heatherann at 4:48 AM on April 11, 2007

I'm amazed sometimes by the lengths some people, men and women, will go to in order to blame their partners for their inadequacies. The big difference between the sexes is exactly what they pick on. Men in my experience often blame their female partner's weight above all, even if she's normal or even thin. (To be honest I don't know what women blame, because I'm not a guy.)

I know one woman who had dieted herself into a skeletal state because her husband kept telling her he couldn't get it up because she was "fat". She got below 90 lb before she realized that he was blaming her for his reduced interest. Quite a few of my friends have also gone through that but to a lesser extent. It's amazing to see a 230 lb guy with a huge pot belly blaming his 120 lb partner for having "let herself go" and "turned into a cow", but what's even more amazing is how common that situation is.
posted by watsondog at 11:16 AM on April 11, 2007

because her husband kept telling her he couldn't get it up because she was "fat".

That's terrible. Who are these fucking people? If any friend of mine told me that he wasn't attracted to his wife as much since she put on x amount of weight, I wouldn't hesitate to call him an asshole and tell him to grow up and be a man.

As a husband, if you are not every day doing whatever you can to communicate to your wife (in whatever way works for you) that she is the most wonderful, most beautiful person in your life, you are failing her.

I know everyone has their ups and downs in life and relationships, but some things should remain constant regardless.
posted by psmealey at 11:27 AM on April 11, 2007

on the Scott entry problem.

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“Saying women have a comparatively lower sex drive on average, is not saying that all women do not have sex drive. Can you understand the difference?” posted by dgaicun

So....my dick isn’t that great then? I think you’re greatly mistaken. I think social stuff is a factor. There is biological stuff too. To what degree, I don’t know. I’d like to see some straight academic study on the matter devoid of a position, so I still don’t know.

“The words unfortunately can never be bold enough to cut through the ideological blinders.” posted by dgaicun

I think it’s because you haven’t seen my penis. I mean, it’s pretty fantastic.
Whatever the biological basis - how sexuality is expressed, delt with, whatever, is social. One car might be more powerful than another - they still have to drive on the streets.

“As a husband, if you are not every day doing whatever you can to communicate to your wife (in whatever way works for you) that she is the most wonderful, most beautiful person in your life, you are failing her”

Yeah, a lot of people I see aren’t really into their relationship. As though you don’t have to put anything into it. And that’s the thing with sex too, it should be effortless, playful, joyful - but so many people get hung up on other issues or things like it’s something other than what it is. And why bring that to bed with you?
And really - there are no other issues or things. If that’s what someone cares about that’s what they should be dealing with. Not a relationship.
People get so invested in their cars, their collectables, the Republican / Democratic party - whatever - and they associate themselves and their libidos to a degree with those things.
It becomes part of their sex organ. And sure that stuff is important to a degree, but it’s not what really matters. I mean, men can’t be MORE interested in sex, it’s a two person thing. It’s like saying I’m more interested in playing chess. Well if you don’t have a partner, you’re playing with yourself - even if someone is moving the pieces across from you. Men can be hornier, sure. More willing to engage in it. But sex is more than intercourse at that moment. I make love to my wife all the time. We also make a lot of physical love. But one does affect the other? Is my wife hornier and more sexually aggressive because I show her I love her all the time? Yeah, I suspect so. Hormones are a two way street. And there are indeed many things you can’t do alone or 1/2 way, sex is one of them. A relationship is one of them. Everything else is masterbation or, really, narcissism.
Hell, Echo wasn’t getting any, but the whole myth there is pretty instructive.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:27 PM on April 11, 2007