Goatse makes it to the Democratic Debate via Youtube

July 24, 2007 8:33 AM

"The user who submitted the video was speaking innocuously into the camera when the image of “goatse” was flashed for the briefest moment in 1/24th of a second" Live, Nationwide on the CNN/Youtube Democratic Debate.
posted by peewinkle (127 comments total)

Service Temporarily Unavailable
posted by davy at 8:35 AM on July 24, 2007

Not that I ever need to see goatse again anyway.
posted by davy at 8:36 AM on July 24, 2007

Link is dead for me.
posted by TungstenChef at 8:36 AM on July 24, 2007

Good job, fucktards. Way to prove to the rest of America that technology IS something to be afraid of.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:37 AM on July 24, 2007 [6 favorites]

CNN got PWNED!
posted by u2604ab at 8:40 AM on July 24, 2007

I think it was an attempt at subliminal messaging.

"Mr. Edwards, your response?"
"I ... I think I'm feeling ill."
"OK, Senator Clinton?"
"Strange, I have this sudden urge to ... well, nevermind."
"Wolf?"
"Yes, Senator Biden?"
"I'd like to talk about my ass ... I mean, my policy toward..."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:41 AM on July 24, 2007 [5 favorites]

I blame boingboing.
posted by uri at 8:41 AM on July 24, 2007 [5 favorites]

Yeah I'll just go ahead and steer clear of this entire story.
posted by autodidact at 8:42 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

For now, story can be seen here.
posted by O Blitiri at 8:42 AM on July 24, 2007

Mirror
posted by TungstenChef at 8:42 AM on July 24, 2007

Link's dead because it's rapidly shooting to the top of Digg right now. The Digg thread has a link to a screenshot of it. It's suspect... could have be PS'd.

Decide for yourself. duggmirror'd
posted by Industrial PhD at 8:42 AM on July 24, 2007

Heh. That's beautiful. ... Well, not beautiful, but excellent nonetheless. Reminds me of Walt Disney's alleged stunt.
posted by ikebowen at 8:45 AM on July 24, 2007

"Yes, Senator Biden?"
"I'd like to talk about my ass ... I mean, my policy toward..."

Well, the distinguished Senator from Delaware would perhaps like to talk about his ass, but invariably he talks out of it instead.
posted by blucevalo at 8:45 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

pwned my face. preview ftw.
posted by Industrial PhD at 8:47 AM on July 24, 2007

where's the video?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:50 AM on July 24, 2007

Great. That'll show 'em.

Twits.
posted by jokeefe at 8:51 AM on July 24, 2007

☞☀☜
posted by mazola at 8:51 AM on July 24, 2007 [22 favorites]

where?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 AM on July 24, 2007

link worked for me, i may be the last person here to be able to access it. from the article:

an image that began circulating the internet and infiltrating innocent users' internet explorer windows as early as january 2000...

this passage begs two important questions, 1) are there any truly innocent users in the world, and 2) are mac people immune to goatse?

despite an extensive screening and thorough analyzation...

i'm sticking with the people who say "analysis", but i award extra points for anyone creating a new word in this context that starts with "anal".

unclear as to how many americans witnessed the outrage...

some people are easily outraged. i was never outraged, just incredulous that an anus could be so flexible.

a top spokesman was reportedly overheard denouncing the incident as "despicable"...

hey dood, don't waste a big gun like "despicable" on something like this. this is more like "juvenile".
posted by bruce at 8:52 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Boy, these politics posts are really getting to be too much.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:55 AM on July 24, 2007

that is one of the best pranks i have seen in a while

kind of reminds me of the early days of the howard stern phone calls on cnn and other news outlets
posted by hpsell at 8:56 AM on July 24, 2007

I'm so glad to see the tenor of political discourse in this country being taken to a higher level finally.
posted by briank at 8:58 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

Hold it, hold it, Goatse's got some good points to make on the subject of deficit spending. Let's hear him out.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:58 AM on July 24, 2007 [13 favorites]

This would be a lot funnier in a compartmentalized world where actions like this don't have consequences. Unfortunately, here on Earth, I think it just gives more evidence to the people looking for it that a voice is not something with which the public is to be trusted.

That's not to say that the version of me who lives in that other, wonderful world isn't pretty amused by this, but still.
posted by invitapriore at 8:58 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

I call BS. 1/24th of a second? Both Clinton and Obama winced. 200,000 calls? Sure.
posted by DU at 9:00 AM on July 24, 2007 [4 favorites]

There are much bigger assholes on CNN all the time.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:01 AM on July 24, 2007 [25 favorites]

...an image that began circulating the internet and infiltrating innocent users’ internet explorer windows as early as January 2000.

Also, I know for certain that goatse infiltrated my internet explorer windows much earlier than January 2000, though maybe I don't count as "innocent".
posted by DU at 9:02 AM on July 24, 2007

that is one of the best pranks i have seen in a while

except we haven't seen it, have we?

what question was being asked and whose video was it?

where is the link to this video?

why is the only photograph i've seen a blurry photo of a hdtv?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:03 AM on July 24, 2007

This is why we can't have nice things.
posted by Otis at 9:04 AM on July 24, 2007 [4 favorites]

Awesome. Goatse for president!
posted by pazazygeek at 9:04 AM on July 24, 2007

are mac people immune to goatse?

No, but his ass looks like brushed chrome. Much more tasteful that way.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:04 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

DU: "I call BS."

Yeah, note that there's also no link to the video as originally posted on YouTube. I won't believe it until I myself can see that butthole for a split second.
posted by Plutor at 9:05 AM on July 24, 2007

I blame Al-Qaeda.
posted by Sailormom at 9:06 AM on July 24, 2007

This is both why we can't have nice things and totally awesome.
posted by LarryC at 9:06 AM on July 24, 2007

So I guess tubgirl will show up at the Republican debate.
posted by TedW at 9:07 AM on July 24, 2007

Wait, so YouTube is 24 fps? I seriously fucking doubt that. Educate me if I'm wrong on this one.
posted by Mister_A at 9:08 AM on July 24, 2007

LOLDUMMOCRATZ
posted by fungible at 9:11 AM on July 24, 2007

Since when is the plural of medium "mediums"?
posted by rottytooth at 9:13 AM on July 24, 2007

i attended a seance once where not one, but two mediums were communicating with spirits.
posted by bruce at 9:14 AM on July 24, 2007

Don't blame me; I voted for Tubgirl.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:16 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

☞☀☜
posted by mazola at 11:51 AM on July 24


This reminds me of some meta-meme, a combination of Goatse and some Lynndie England "smile and point" moment. I can't quite decide whether it's hilarious or horrible.
posted by god hates math at 9:17 AM on July 24, 2007

I used to wear small t-shirts but now I wear mediums.
posted by cortex at 9:17 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

The question becomes whether Goatse or Tubgirl will receive the nomination from the Lemon Party.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:20 AM on July 24, 2007 [16 favorites]

I hope you were able to find a happy medium, bruce.

Anyway, since I can't/won't click on this story (goatsephobia coupled with getting-fired-o-phobia), can someone explain where and how the image purportedly appeared? Was it embedded in a YouTube video that was shown on CNN?

Sidebar: I think we should rename YouTube to "YouTub" or TubTube".
posted by Mister_A at 9:21 AM on July 24, 2007

Didn't happen.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 9:23 AM on July 24, 2007

i'd vote for goatse over joe lieberman.
posted by bruce at 9:24 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

The immediately preceding "story" on the only source for this incident informs us that Paris Hilton has been arrested for collaborating with terrorists.

Not only bullshit, but obvious, puerile bullshit.
posted by yhbc at 9:24 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Double?
posted by mazola at 9:26 AM on July 24, 2007

this passage begs two important questions

that phrase does not mean what you think it means.
posted by quonsar at 9:27 AM on July 24, 2007 [2 favorites]

Here's the video in question, and it contains no goatse. Hoax. sorry.
posted by progosk at 9:28 AM on July 24, 2007

Yep, hoax I think.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:32 AM on July 24, 2007

Also: here's the part of the debate in which the video appeared - though nothing's visible anyway, given its poor definition...
posted by progosk at 9:32 AM on July 24, 2007

Oooo, looks like we were the ones who were PWNED.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:32 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Thanks for injecting something useful into the Goatse thread, big Q.
posted by Mister_A at 9:35 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

what an ass
posted by mkultra at 9:38 AM on July 24, 2007 [2 favorites]

I think it's a hoax, but I'd really, really like to believe that it's true.

Plus, one frame on NTSC television isn't 1/24 s. That's one frame in a movie theater, or when shooting 24P, but television is 29.97I. One 24P frame would end up being stretched across several fields after the 3:2 pulldown; it would almost certainly be noticed by the technicians preparing the content for CNN.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:39 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Right kadin. Also, one frame on YouTube is ALSO not 1/24 s. It's probably 1/12 or 1/15 (anyone know?).
posted by Mister_A at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

I guess we left ourselves wide open for that one.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:41 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

are mac people immune to goatse?

Hold on, let me check with Steve to see what we're doing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:49 AM on July 24, 2007 [2 favorites]

Goatse was brought to you by Cheereos, the breakfast of champions!
posted by doctorschlock at 9:51 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

I for one am glad that the debate format has been opened up to let in some fresh air.
posted by adamrice at 9:53 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

quonsar: bruce used the phrase perfectly correctly. The passage he quoted made the unchecked assumptions that internet users were "innocent" and all used Internet Explorer by embedding those terms in the sentence as if they were axiomatic.

I tried a few permutations of relevant words to find the offending video on youtube, with no results, so I'm thinking fake. In doing so I was rewarded with the phrase "clinton obama goatse," which sounds like the perverted successor to Gödel, Escher, Bach by means of its syllable distribution. Hilarious.
posted by invitapriore at 9:56 AM on July 24, 2007 [2 favorites]

Hoaxse.
posted by jenkinsEar at 9:58 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

Right kadin. Also, one frame on YouTube is ALSO not 1/24 s. It's probably 1/12 or 1/15 (anyone know?).

I think it depends on the video.
posted by delmoi at 10:01 AM on July 24, 2007

I think they will only show Goatse during the Republican Debate. Ted Haggard already booked a front seat.
posted by homodigitalis at 10:05 AM on July 24, 2007

delmoi, there's no room for video relativism here.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:09 AM on July 24, 2007

FWIW, here it is claimed that it's 15 fps. Then again, the broadcast was in NTSC and one can speculate about the video format used to display the videos to the candidates - it might have been a computer + LCD projector, presentation style, or maybe they were playing prepared tapes as NTSC. And then again I watched it in Europe on CNN Int'l as PAL. So it might take some math to determine exactly how long this visual menace was piped into our children's retinas.

Because, you know, watching political debates on CNN is all the rage amongst the youngsters now, what with all the YouTubery and Goatse-spotting going on.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:09 AM on July 24, 2007

Maybe filmgeek will show up here to explain it all.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:09 AM on July 24, 2007

a voice is not something with which the public is to be trusted to bring you pre-digested hyper-sanitised fare.

I don't have a problem with that. But I am purposefully not thinking of all the children who follow electoral Q&As
posted by Sparx at 10:13 AM on July 24, 2007

[edited the FPP to go to working mirror]
posted by jessamyn at 10:15 AM on July 24, 2007

kadin2048 already offered a succinct and accurate comment on the broadcast framerate, and why it would be unlikely to sneak a goatse in to CNN. My point was basically, the frames are longer in online video, so therefore...

A. It's even easier for production people to spot a goatse frame

B. I immediately smelled bullshit when I read something about 1/24 of a second as a YouTube frame.
posted by Mister_A at 10:18 AM on July 24, 2007

Link to the thing I just mentioned....
posted by Mister_A at 10:18 AM on July 24, 2007

This is fake.

But, I suppose a lie is good for page hits.
posted by four panels at 10:19 AM on July 24, 2007

I think hoax, too.
posted by empath at 10:20 AM on July 24, 2007

Why would anyone want this shit job?

Because it affords him interesting opportunities, like splicing single frames of pornography into family films, so when the snooty cat and the courageous dog with the celebrity voices meet for the first time in reel three, that's when you'll catch a flash of Tyler's contribution to the film.

Nobody knows that they saw it, but they did.

A nice, big cock.

Even a hummingbird couldn't catch Tyler at work.
posted by quin at 10:21 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Yay, invitapriore! I greatly admire your ingenious logical perversity. However, unchecked assumptions do not beg questions. Question begging is the logical fallacy whereby an argument's conclusions are hidden in its premises.
posted by howfar at 10:21 AM on July 24, 2007

This thread is useless perfectly acceptable without pics.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 10:22 AM on July 24, 2007

I don't understand why this thread hasn't been erased.
posted by waldo at 10:27 AM on July 24, 2007

howfar: you're right. I've been laboring under a misconception for quite a while, it seems. Thanks for the heads-up, so now I don't go making a fool of myself anywhere else. :)
posted by invitapriore at 10:37 AM on July 24, 2007

So I guess tubgirl will show up at the Republican debate.

I have it on good authority that Lemon Party was a fringe meeting at the 1996 Republican Party Convention.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:38 AM on July 24, 2007

It's much worse than we thought
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:43 AM on July 24, 2007 [3 favorites]

The FPP link displays two screen caps of the goatse frame, one is square and the other is at an angle.
posted by sluglicker at 10:44 AM on July 24, 2007

For those obsessing about youtube's supposed frame rate, when you upload material to youtube, they convert it to 15fps, though if they wanted to they could preserve the frame rate of the source video, which could be anything at all. That it's 15fps proves nothing about the veracity of the story, since that number could have been simple erroneous explanatory detail provided by a writer, contributor or complainer who thought he understood video.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:47 AM on July 24, 2007

Not goatse, just Bush opening up some to compensate for all the secrecy lately. "Well, you know I can't let Harriet testify, but check out these polyps."
posted by kingfisher, his musclebound cat at 10:49 AM on July 24, 2007

Judging by the name on the screen it should be this video, but I ain't seein' nuttin. I'm voting hoax.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:50 AM on July 24, 2007

This is the original video.

Hoax for prez!
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:52 AM on July 24, 2007

Narrator: Tyler was a night person. While the rest of us were sleeping, he worked. He had one part time job as a projectionist. See, a movie doesn't come all on one big reel. It comes on a few. So someone has to be there to switch the projectors at the exact moment that one reel ends and the next one begins. If you look for it, you can see these little dots come into the upper right-hand corner of the screen.

Tyler Durden: In the industry, we call them "cigarette burns."

Narrator: That's the cue for a changeover. He flips the projectors, the movie keeps right on going, and nobody in the audience has any idea.

Tyler Durden: Why would anyone want this shit job?

Narrator: Because it affords him other interesting opportunities.

Tyler Durden: Like splicing single frames of pornography into family films.
posted by hotmud at 11:09 AM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Good job, fucktards. Way to prove to the rest of America that technology IS something to be afraid of.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:37 AM on July 24 [3 favorites -] Favorite added! [!]

Hoax or not I agree with ThePinkSuperhero. Whether it is a hoax or not just defines who the fucktards are. If it is not a hoax I hope the FCC applies the full $325,000 penalty to those responsible.
posted by caddis at 11:10 AM on July 24, 2007

Or failing that, hunt those folks down, smoke them out of their holes, and bring them to justice.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 11:23 AM on July 24, 2007

Ah, but that erroneous detail, George Spiggott, is what got me thinking that the whole thing smelled like low tide. Dig?
posted by Mister_A at 11:30 AM on July 24, 2007

Question begging is the logical fallacy whereby an argument's conclusions are hidden in its premises.

To logicians, not to the general public. To the average user of English, "beg the question" means "raise the question." Sorry, but it's the average user of English who determines English usage.
posted by languagehat at 11:48 AM on July 24, 2007

The average user of English seems to like orientate, as well.

I am flat out amazed that it took until hotmud to quote that.
posted by dreamsign at 11:53 AM on July 24, 2007

Less amazed than quin, I bet.
posted by cortex at 12:04 PM on July 24, 2007

Ack. Yeah, it was quin's that I saw when I was scrolling down looking to see who would finally say it. Then when commenting worked backward assuming it would be the same person. Oops. Still... very late in the thread.
posted by dreamsign at 12:13 PM on July 24, 2007

I'm trying to think of a joke involving someone "running for public orifice," but I'm just a tad too hungover to pull it off right now.
posted by brundlefly at 12:20 PM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

I won't believe it until I myself can see that butthole for a split

I won't believe it until I myself can see that butthole for a split
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:25 PM on July 24, 2007

Can I flag hotmud for a double?
posted by KingoftheWhales at 12:30 PM on July 24, 2007

As for the rest of the debate, here is the summary

Seriously a fucking dickhead pretending to be a snowman asked a question? They played the audio from that particular questions on NPR this morning, and I could not believe it.

Say want you want about Goatse, but I'd argue that that 1/24 of a second was more dignified than when the fucking snowman got up to ask a question.
posted by psmealey at 12:32 PM on July 24, 2007

Eek, my bad. missed it.

First rule of Fight Club, don't post to MeFi about Fight Club.
posted by hotmud at 12:35 PM on July 24, 2007

Arse.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 12:45 PM on July 24, 2007

Wonkette and Youtube are both calling BS...
posted by Aversion Therapy at 12:47 PM on July 24, 2007

I'd argue that that 1/24 of a second was more dignified than when the fucking snowman got up to ask a question.

Speaking of snowmen and video shenanigans...
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:54 PM on July 24, 2007

what the world needs now, is more goatsecx like i need a hole in my head
*dances*
posted by derrickito at 12:59 PM on July 24, 2007

All over the internets for 5 hours but not 1 actual clip. Move along folks...nothing to see here.
posted by Emoskimo at 12:59 PM on July 24, 2007

I'd argue that that 1/24 of a second was more dignified than when the fucking snowman got up to ask a question.

Yea, seriously, generation whatever, you guys are the worst generation yet! Get the fuck off my lawn!

/old&cranky
posted by Mister_A at 1:26 PM on July 24, 2007

yes. exactly
posted by psmealey at 1:30 PM on July 24, 2007

Although it was pretty mortifying when that chick asked Clinton about his skivvies. Still, this is worse. Or maybe young people are just horrible, horrible creatures.
posted by Mister_A at 1:32 PM on July 24, 2007

Well, I think you're off the mark regardless (though it does say "mind-reader" as your occupation in your profile, so it must be your day off)? I have no idea who old or young the "snowman" was that asked that question. From the audio, it sounded like one of those annoying "Merry Trickster" dipshits from the 60s.

I guess as embarrassed as these debacles make me feel to be a Democrat when they're done straight, that just made me feel a bit worse about it.
posted by psmealey at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2007

I don't see anything in that summary link about a snowman, but I'm really worn out. I assumed the snowman was a young dipshit, rather than one of the older sorts, because of the YouTube connection. I like the idea of taking questions from geographically diverse locations in this way, but I honestly can't stand the "stunt" questions. Why the hell would they put that crap in there? I was making fun of my present cranky disposition, not psmealey's statement.
posted by Mister_A at 2:04 PM on July 24, 2007

I so wanted this to be true. Oh well...
posted by Debaser626 at 2:16 PM on July 24, 2007

languagehat, I don't think you've caught the context of my comment, invitapriore was already embroiled in the question as to whether "beg the question" had been properly used. I merely corrected his correction of a correction.
posted by howfar at 2:25 PM on July 24, 2007

Why don't we just engrave this on the surface of the moon and be done with it?
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:41 PM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

This was the only fun part of that whole debate, and it wasn't even true.

(It was sort of fun when Biden wigged out on the gun nut, too.)
posted by kenlayne at 2:51 PM on July 24, 2007

Why don't we just engrave this on the surface of the moon and be done with it?

Are you referring to the proper usage of "beg the question," or to Goatse? Because I would approve of either.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:24 PM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Ah, what a pity it's not true.

Juvenile etc. I know, but given the ridiculous furore over Janet Jackson's nipple at the Superbowl it would've been supremely entertaining to watch the paroxysm of outrage / fainting / apocalypse over this.

Yes, I know it's bad and self-defeating, but you have to say it would've been a pretty direct comment on the synthetic personalities and malleable policy on offer.
posted by Shinkicker at 4:23 PM on July 24, 2007

I smell Rove.
posted by Afroblanco at 5:06 PM on July 24, 2007

I merely corrected his correction of a correction.

Fair enough. Consider my comment directed not at you but at anyone who actually believes there is a "correct" meaning of the expression, known only to themselves and a select group of philosophy majors yet somehow definitive for the entire English-speaking world. Note to philosophy majors: there's a perfectly good expression, petitio principii, that will express your meaning even better than using a confusing English phrase.
posted by languagehat at 5:33 PM on July 24, 2007

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:19 PM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Congratulations, you made me laugh with the text of your post alone.

And then the actual story made me laugh again.

loloma.

might be a hoax, but maybe someone EDITED THE VIDEO!! if it really was a split second, it would be simple to do, or just place a cut of the frame before over it. no?

i'm keeping the faith. go goatse!
posted by mrgrimm at 7:10 PM on July 24, 2007

Isn't it the case that they would not in fact show actual YouTube video for a hi-def or just normal analog tv show? It seems surely to be the case that production values would dictate that the folks behind the questions would have been approached by YouTube and asked to submit the original or hi-def versions of their videos for the purposes of this show? If this is the case doesn't it seem reasonable that speaking about YouTube frame rates or whatever has gone on in this thread for refutation is basically beside the point? (Not that I believe this to be anything other than a hoax - I just don't believe any of the arguments in this thread have refuted it)
posted by filchyboy at 7:23 PM on July 24, 2007

It may have been an assinine prank, butt it's a bit of a stretch to think that those assholes at CNN haven't rectified the situation by flushing the offending frame down the memory hole, if there really was a goatseen. They'll soon finger the culprit, I imagine, and he'll be (wedding) banned.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:25 PM on July 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Faaaake.

Incidentally, "Faaaake." is IMHO the universal YouTube troll comment. Try it sometime, it's really fucking fun.
posted by blasdelf at 3:05 AM on July 25, 2007

I'm sorry I was busy. I hear it's a fake. I'm not sure/don't remember how my name ever became exactly linked with goat.cx.

I assure you that I find the picture as shocking as everyone else, but I'd totally like to do a documentary version of the flickr project.
posted by filmgeek at 5:52 AM on July 25, 2007

I liked the puns stav. Keep them bumming coming.
posted by longbaugh at 7:02 AM on July 25, 2007

Question begging is the logical fallacy whereby an argument's conclusions are hidden in its premises.

To logicians, not to the general public.

Logicians? Come on. I'd be surprised if any educated person I knew misused the phrase in such a manner. If I were misusing it, I'd be very glad to get a polite correction.

There simply isn't another phrase to describe "the logical fallacy whereby an argument's conclusions are hidden in its premises"; this is a very useful concept; by declaring that "begs the question" now means "asks the question" simply because your average Joe is too ignorant to understand that original concept, you've simply robbed the language of a degree of expressiveness.

Feel free to use the lowest common denominator of language if you wish, languagehat, but I hope we can do better on Metafilter.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:00 PM on July 25, 2007

(...and please, let's not get all prescriptive vs. descriptive. I understand it's all the rage these days to think of languages entirely descriptively, which utterly ignores the fact that languages are constantly being prescriptively taught from parents to children, between individuals in social context, and from management to worker in traditional capitalist workplaces. Everyone has an idea of what correct language is, even if it's not their idiolect, and to claim you're above all of that is disingenuous.)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 6:09 PM on July 25, 2007

I think that might be some pretty wild projection going on there, l_y. I don't remember lfat running on an uncompromising winger-descriptivist platform historically, just grousing (and rightly) at people trumpeting unchecked prescriptivist claptrap about Things Being Correct without considering the overwhelming practical influence of, you know, actual usage. "Begging the question" certainly has a specific and admirable utility in the logically-precise sense, but that doesn't make the common usage not the common usage.
posted by cortex at 6:31 PM on July 25, 2007