Comic Sans

August 23, 2007 10:59 AM

The story behind Comic Sans: The web's most hated typeface. Previously
posted by GuyZero (398 comments total)

Gray font on a black background, that's the kind of crap one could expect from the maker of Comic Sans.
posted by jefbla at 11:07 AM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Whatever. It's still the smallest and most readable font for the Blackberry. For that reason alone, I think Mr. Vincent Connare.
posted by psmealey at 11:10 AM on August 23, 2007

You think so?
posted by dersins at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

The Dark Knight Returns a Batman book was one of the books I referenced often.

The world's worst typeface is derived from Frank Miller's "The Dark Knight Returns", a fantastic graphic novel - my irony meter just exploded.
posted by GuyZero at 11:18 AM on August 23, 2007

So wait, at his home page, when you hover over the links, the badly miscolored bitmaps of text get enlarged without any smoothing, so becoming blocky and repulsive. This is a guy who designs fonts? Truly, I believe he wants to taste the curb!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:20 AM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Yeah, Horatio Sanz really is a poor comedian. Look at him on Saturday Night Live: always laughing at his own jokes, mugging for the camera, losing it in the middle of a horrible setup.

Ban "Comic" Sanz NOW.

Wait, what?
posted by infinitewindow at 11:20 AM on August 23, 2007 [10 favorites]

Mr Connare makes some bullshit justification for the worst font ever created.

IT'S BAD DESIGN, VINNIE. BAD. Just admit you made something ugly and move on.
posted by grubi at 11:22 AM on August 23, 2007

He's not that bad once you get to know him.
posted by arialblack at 11:22 AM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Man when I was thirteen this was hands down: The. Coolest. Font. Ever.
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 11:25 AM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]

It seems to me the problem isn't Comic Sans as a font. There are *way* uglier fonts out there - just look at this crap to see some.

It seems to me the problem is that the font is misused. Which isn't the problem of the font designer. It's the problem of the graphic artists who can't judge the utility of a particular font for a particular purpose.
posted by MythMaker at 11:27 AM on August 23, 2007 [8 favorites]

Sheldon's take on the matter. and again. And again.
posted by phearlez at 11:27 AM on August 23, 2007

I hate Arial, Tahoma and Impact. A lot.

Which is sad because Impact is a decent font.

I guess I should just be glad that Microgamma remains mostly unsullied.


Oh, right, topic. Comic Sans was designed by a Microsoft employee? That explains a whole lot. Like the terrible metrics and em-spacing. Sweet Jesus, the pain!

But hating on it is like hating on your retarded kid brother for drooling on his own birthday cake.

Signed,

ETAOIN
SHRDLU
posted by loquacious at 11:32 AM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Wow. Font hate. Trippy.
posted by zennie at 11:39 AM on August 23, 2007

The Dark Knight Returns a Batman book was one of the books I referenced often.

Man, if anyone doubts the wisdom in RTFA, I was this close to relettering the last Joker scene in TDKR with Comic Sans when I read the next sentence:

I took care not to copy the letters but looked at varying shapes in different styles.

You win this round, Connare!
*Closes Photoshop, cancels torrent*
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:42 AM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh, man MythMaker, you just made me flashback to my childhood, getting a bonus CD of "1002 WACKY FONTS" included with my printer, and using them everywhere.

My Dad's genealogy records still have the occasional title page printed in this hideously tacky "ye olde signpost"-style font called Ironwood, because he didn't know how to use a computer and I was twelve.
posted by Riki tiki at 11:50 AM on August 23, 2007

You win this round, Connare!

I dunno, I mean.

This still makes me wonder if the guy who came up with Clippy was inspired by Sandman. "What's the next best nightmare after The Corinthian... ... ...?"

"EUREKA."
posted by sparkletone at 11:51 AM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]

It's a great font. For comic books. He's not claiming it should be a general purpose font, he's just claiming it has a place, which it does. What's he supposed to do, include an EULA that says "I WILL NOT USE THIS FONT FOR GENERAL WEB SITES OR DOCUMENTS"?

The font-hate is misdirected - hate the masses of aesthetically-challenged designers who misuse it.
posted by chundo at 11:53 AM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Comic Sans is pretty terrible, but nothing will remove Zapf Chancery as the most abused, most horrible font ever in my book.
posted by maxwelton at 11:55 AM on August 23, 2007

It's a great font. For comic books.

No. No, it really isn't.

(By the bye, Comics Should Be Good's fun 365 Reasons to Love Comics feature is taking a look at letterers and their craft this week!)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:03 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

I think the real fault lies with the idiot that made it a default system font in windows.
posted by empath at 12:06 PM on August 23, 2007

Oh thanks a bunch for reminding me maxwelton. Zapf Chancery -- the type equivalent of The Game....
posted by i_cola at 12:08 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

The font-hate is misdirected - hate the masses of aesthetically-challenged designers who misuse it.

My Biochemistry professor used Comic Sans for the homework assignments. He is a bit of a goof, smart as hell, but I wouldn't call him a designer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:08 PM on August 23, 2007

It seems to me the problem is that the font is mis used.

There you go.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:10 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

The whole rambling "I made this font out of a paperclip and something I found under my desk" explanation kind of fits.

And yeah, it's not a bad font. It's a perfectly decent font. It has its uses, and as a pinch-hitter in the basic-fonts utilikilt it'd be fine.

It's like that band your buddy is in, the four piece that mostly does the same bluesrock cover set with the occasional so-so original that the bassist wrote. They play out a bit, people have a good time, they've recorded a couple basement demos, and that's about it. You'd have to be an asshole to give them shit for doing their thing and doing it serviceably and having a good time.

Unless they started getting airplay every hour, every day, on every radio station and music channel and car commercial in the nation. For years. Every iPod, every CD player, every DVD player and game console came with their music preinstalled. People would email you with their cover of "Bad to the Bone" embedded. Posters everywhere—for bake sales, for company memos, for other bands—with their faces on it.

That's when shit gets tired. That's Comic Sans.
posted by cortex at 12:13 PM on August 23, 2007 [40 favorites]

Jesus H. Christ, this Connare guy is a dumb asshole. First, he throws a sucker punch at Apple with its Chalkboard — which is made to look like letters drawn on a chalkboard (surprise, surprise) and not ape letters in a comic book — and then he calls Mac OS X "OS/X".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:13 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

It's a font. You may as well rail against oil paints because you think watercolors are the shit.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 12:15 PM on August 23, 2007

Comic Sans used in business correspondence is the height of bad taste. Save it for bake sale flyers.

Instead of trying to fight it, I just nuke Comic Sans from my personal 'puters, and it falls back to a sans-serif when a CS-using message lands in my In Box. Everybody wins.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:22 PM on August 23, 2007

and then he calls Mac OS X "OS/X"

Oh my god, worst tragedy ever to occur on American soil. I think we have secret courts for this type of crime.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:23 PM on August 23, 2007 [7 favorites]

Typography freaks amaze me with their unfailing ability to confuse their own dislike with objective suckfullness. (Of course they're not along in that capacity. Replublicans are pretty good at it, too.)

As far as I can see, the actual reason for the fact that Comic Sans is so roundly despised is that it's chosen by so many inexperienced users.

It's a low-status typeface, in a nutshell. And that's pretty much it.

And heaven forbid we don't denigrate the choices of inexperienced users. Instead of, you know, like maybe trying to figure out why they made those choices.
posted by lodurr at 12:23 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]

I like Comic Sans because it's used in Jerkcity.
posted by pieoverdone at 12:27 PM on August 23, 2007

It's a great font. For comic books.

No, it's an ass font for comics. Trust me on this. Comic Sans is the only thing in the world that looks worse than my hand-lettering. and my handwriting sucks like an atomic Hoover. There are lots of great fonts for comics lettering, but Comic Sans sure as shit ain't one of them.

That said, I got an insane amount of respect back in 1997 when I had my name and address on my checks printed in Comic Sans.
posted by COBRA! at 12:32 PM on August 23, 2007

I dunno, it kind of seems appropriately used in the codinghorror.com link, advertising "luftballongas" (helium?)
posted by exogenous at 12:37 PM on August 23, 2007

So this guy, aside from having the most hideous website of any designer I have ever seen, is responsible for both Comic Sans and Webdings? Does he kick puppies in his spare time?
posted by [expletive deleted] at 12:43 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Comic Sans isn't the worst font.

Sand is.

There's a store in downtown Berkeley that has its signage done in Sand. One day I'm going to burn that motherfucker down. I have no idea what services they offer, or what wares they sell, I'm going to burn it to the ground for that affront.
posted by lekvar at 12:54 PM on August 23, 2007 [9 favorites]

Apparently, it is one of the most easily read fonts if you're dyslexic...

I'm stuck with it... even though I hate it. At least we moved away from from Dom Casual.
posted by chuckdarwin at 1:00 PM on August 23, 2007

Comic Sans is extremely useful in deciding who you want to talk to. You don't want to talk to anyone who uses Comic Sans.
posted by voltairemodern at 1:04 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

And yet Fraktur, which is a lovely blackletter typeface, was used by the Nazis. At last, until they decided it was Jewish.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:06 PM on August 23, 2007

lekvar, the signs at Bette's Oceanview Diner are all done in Sand. Oy. As was a recent Captain Morgan's campaign. Billboards. In Sand.

Years ago, a friend and I were going to (erm, fantasizing about) write a virus which did one thing: deleted Sand from people's hard drives. I still think it's a great idea. Perhaps the only idea worth having, even.
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:12 PM on August 23, 2007

There's a lot of good, expressive hand lettering in comics that would also be useful on a computer screen, as an informal font, but Comic Sans is miles away from that. Put it next to some good hand lettering and you'll see how weak it is. Calling it Comic Sans is an insult to comics. Let's rename it...
posted by Termite at 1:13 PM on August 23, 2007

Papyrus is another bundled star. I see it everywhere. The artificial aging makes it stand out among the other bundled fonts, making it an easy choice for the casual / non designer. A comment on typophile provided a good explanation for some of the font rage:

Papyrus is a well done face. It is just that because of the ’faux antique’ roughness it is cloying after a while. In this respect the comparison with Comic Sans is very apt. Its positive qualities make it popular. Its affectations (faux antique, faux child-like) make it very irritating with overuse.

posted by lucidprose at 1:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Sand is uniquely terrible, but I think that it's not as bad as Comic Sans, simply because at least Sand is obviously bad, and not meant for anything but titling. Comic Sans is "stealth bad." It's just good enough that someone who doesn't know better can look at it and say 'gee, that's cool.' Only, it really isn't cool at all.

Kinda like fanny packs.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:21 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

I have to admit it worked really well in Sims. Maybe that had something to do with the prevalence of anti-aliased, white on blue text.
posted by chef_boyardee at 1:24 PM on August 23, 2007

To All: Your favorite font sucks.
Your most hated font is great.

That will be all, move along...



Oh, and East Manitoba: What's worse than the lack of smoothing is the fact that as intimated by his home page, Vincent is a hot blonde......
posted by Debaser626 at 1:28 PM on August 23, 2007

There's a store in downtown Berkeley that has its signage done in Sand.

Ah, Venus. I heard it was pretty good but never bothered to try it. It may have been the sign that kept me out.
posted by pmbuko at 1:31 PM on August 23, 2007

I never had a huge problem with Comics Sans. I agree: it tends to get used a bit too indiscriminetly, but it wasn't super offensive.

Then I read this article.

And foudn out it originated with Microsoft Bob.

For that reason along, it shoud die.

*sudders* Microsoft frakin' Bob!
posted by MrGuilt at 1:51 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm somewhat art savvy, have some sense of style and design... but I have never understood the vituperative nature of font fights. I really don't get it. It's not that I love Comic Sans... it's just that I don't care that much.

I have friends in graphic design (or graphuck DEE-sign, as they like to say) that can barely look at something because the kerning is bad.

I feel like I must have the font equivalent of tone deafness.
posted by mondo dentro at 1:52 PM on August 23, 2007 [9 favorites]

The worst typography I've ever seen was back when I was designing ads for a local newspaper. A fellow "graphic designer" broke out the Zaph Chancery in 60 point type, but didn't stop there - add an outline, a shadow and an underline, plus crude hinted faux-bold, and you've got one for the record books.

Sand is garbage, too; should have been left behind with Mac OS 9.
posted by porn in the woods at 1:54 PM on August 23, 2007

This font hate is kind of lame. Sure, printed birthday party invitations in Comic Sans indicates half-assed parenting. But those same invitations in Times New Roman? Then you weren't trying at all.

The only thing worse is this guy's immense pride in making comic sans. You were at microsoft for years and your only accomplishment was the font that the "wacky guy" at work uses for his friday e-mails? That's not something I'd keep bringing up voluntarily.
posted by Gary at 2:06 PM on August 23, 2007

I will admit... bad kerning gives me hives. My friends just kind of sympathetically pat me on the shoulder, not really understanding.

I went on a two year tirade against Hobo & Peignot. I'm better now. My meds are working.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:07 PM on August 23, 2007

One summer I worked as a media liaison officer for a branch of the Canadian government. We basically reviewed documents and pamphlets and the like, and made sure that they conformed to proper government standards and templates.

Comic Sans was a big no-no, one that we had to constantly tell people promoting their summer fun time events in small towns they could not use. We were the government, after all, we can't have our official presence made in such a lame and dinky font!

One day I got my hands on an official proclamation, the kind of thing passed down through departments direct from the policy makers. Very official looking, with fancy seals, printed on ye olde proclamation type stock... in Comic Sans.
posted by yellowbinder at 2:13 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

I like Comic Sans. It's good for what it's good for.

Hate the user, not the font.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:14 PM on August 23, 2007

cortex: "Posters everywhere—for bake sales, for company memos, for other bands—with their faces on it."

Hold on a minute. Looping back around here, you're saying people use Comic Sans to advertise other fonts? Non-facetiously?
posted by Plutor at 2:18 PM on August 23, 2007

It goes all the way to the top.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:27 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

I went on a two year tirade against Hobo & Peignot. I'm better now. My meds are working.

I'll never be able to watch Mary Tyler Moore again.
posted by verb at 2:35 PM on August 23, 2007

There's a store in downtown Berkeley that has its signage done in Sand. One day I'm going to burn that motherfucker down. I have no idea what services they offer, or what wares they sell, I'm going to burn it to the ground for that affront.

lekvar, do you remember the name of the business?
posted by brundlefly at 2:36 PM on August 23, 2007

Many years ago I was involved in redesigning some (state) government web sites, and I distinctly remember Comic Sans being a design requirement.

I don't know who sent out the memo, but apparently Comic Sans was determined to be the most readable font on a monitor and therefore, through some perversion of 508 accessibility guidelines, was used extensively on these government-related sites.

Just imagine: Bureaucratic government-speak, presented in 14-point Comic Sans. Some very special parts of my brain and soul withered and died during that project.
posted by krippledkonscious at 2:42 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Ha ha, Microsoft Bob.

When I was, oh, 13 or so...I enjoyed making sure that outside all the windows in our "house," the view was of a flock of cardboard boxes flying over a cowfield.

I think my mom might have actually used that program to like, do stuff, though. Maybe she typed our Christmas newsletter on there? Something like that.
posted by lampoil at 2:44 PM on August 23, 2007

Hold on a minute. Looping back around here, you're saying people use Comic Sans to advertise other fonts? Non-facetiously?

Those second vikings were metaphorical, Plutor.
posted by cortex at 2:47 PM on August 23, 2007

People who get that worked up over a font... I just... I... I just can't take them seriously.

Not even a little.

It seems to me the problem is that the font is misused. Which isn't the problem of the font designer. It's the problem of the graphic artists who can't judge the utility of a particular font for a particular purpose.
posted by MythMaker at 1:27 PM on August 23

You always hear about "this font sucks", and usually Comic Sans gets the lion's share of abuse. I sometimes use it on Instant Messenger because it is very easy to read, especially when you are just glancing. Legibility trumps aesthetics in those kind of applications.

But, what I never hear are what are good fonts. What SHOULD I use? Can someone give me 3-4 fonts that I can use without incurring wrath of some sort or another? Or, in extreme cases, have my building burned down over?

Put more pointedly, are there any standard fonts in Windows XP that are acceptable? Or should I just refuse to write or print anything unless I am willing to pay out for a boutique font?

I mean, there are complaints against at least 8 or 9 standard Windows fonts in the comments above. I'm not sure I can find any font in Word that will pass muster.
posted by Ynoxas at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2007

If there's one thing Comic Sans is good at, it's as an indicator font.

It's the "I don't really know what I'm doing" font. Which is fine for the amateur who just needs to make up a flyer for a church group or bake sale or whatever. They're not getting paid, they just wanted to pick out an okay-looking font without too much hassle.

But, when you see it in a professional context, you know the person who made that design choice was lazy, because they went for the most "fun" font that they already had on their computer, the same one everyone else uses. Like the menus at Fresh Choice. Someone wasn't trying very hard.

It's like when a child bangs out a pretty serviceable tune on the piano using only the white keys, that's fine and dandy, but if a professional does it, they're being lazy.
posted by Durhey at 3:01 PM on August 23, 2007

Well, that ended up pretty much the same as Cortex's analogy.
posted by Durhey at 3:03 PM on August 23, 2007

But, what I never hear are what are good fonts.

Helvetica is lovely and clean and versatile; there's a reason people heap praise on it. I don't think it's standard on Windows boxes, sadly (presumably because it's cheaper to produce a knockoff than to license it?).

Verdana works pretty dang well in screen contexts—not universally loved, but undeniably strong. Readable even at relatively low pt sizes, generous x-height.

Arial Black makes for good headliners. I don't really like reading a lot of text in it, but as a big bold outline-text font it's hard to knock it.

Georgia and Palatino Linotype both make nice alternatives to Times New Roman; I have a weird fondness for the latter, though I'm not sure it's really popular.

I'm not a typographer—this is armchair, populist stuff. But there are plenty of people saying nice things about fonts out there, if you look for it.
posted by cortex at 3:08 PM on August 23, 2007 [11 favorites]

I never understood font hate.
posted by caddis at 3:09 PM on August 23, 2007

I never understood font hate.

Oh, I get it. I know that some people are passionate about many things that bore many more others to tears. I also know that I am one of these people, though not about fonts. But still, yeah. Font hate? Doesn't make it seem any less silly to me.

But back off my stamp collection, biatches.
posted by psmealey at 3:19 PM on August 23, 2007

Typography arguments are the wankiest things ever.
posted by Joeforking at 3:21 PM on August 23, 2007

Philately will get you nowhere, my dear psmealey.
posted by cortex at 3:22 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]

brundlefly-
as pmbuko mentioned its called called Venus. It's near Jupiter if I'm remembering correctly.

And now I've got a mental image of the signage stuck in my head and all the bleach and paint thinner in the world won't make it come out.
posted by lekvar at 3:25 PM on August 23, 2007

People like the font because it's easily read and looks informal and fun, This approachability makes some people hate it with a passion. It's like catchy pop music.

See, for instance, this: "although young kids do tend to like it, but they haven't yet formed an appreciation of aesthetics relating to design at the age of five, so they don't count" or this: "Comic Sans might look fun and quirky to you, but it's painful to the rest of us who have a smidgen of design sense."

I don't particularly understand the level of vitriol directed towards the typeface. Tackiness is not a moral failure.
posted by factory123 at 3:35 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Metafilter's not looking too good...
posted by soundofsuburbia at 3:49 PM on August 23, 2007

I feel sorry for comic sans. Its the kind of thing you love as a kid then hate as an adult. Then you find other adults who hate it and pat each other on the back. In a way its a lot like Limp Bizkit.
posted by damn dirty ape at 3:53 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Helvetica is lovely and clean and versatile; there's a reason people heap praise on it. I don't think it's standard on Windows boxes, sadly (presumably because it's cheaper to produce a knockoff than to license it?).

What's wrong with a "knockoff"? I mean, you can make one font look visually identical to another, the only thing you have to "license" is the Name (which can be trademarked). Arial isn't exactly the same as Helvetica, but it's very similar and most letters are the same. The only reason to prefer Helvetica to Arial is snobbery.

That said, when I see Arial, I generally find it ugly, boring, and 'default' like the person didn't even bother to pick something interesting. I Don't feel the same was with Verdana, perhaps because it was designed for the screen in the first place.
posted by delmoi at 4:00 PM on August 23, 2007

Don't understand font hate? okay, here's the thing.

If you write code, are capable of instantly dissecting the work anybody does, so highly strung that you have to chant a mantra after every workday phone call to get yourself back in the zone, you will still never once say, 'Christ, if that stupid programmer had bothered to test values BEFORE making them global, I wouldn't still be waiting for the gas pump to clear my card,' because you never see the code. Horrific bits of lame-arse programming are all around you, but you never have to know.

When you're a designer and you see something bad, you register what's bad about it by reflex. And graphic designers are not compensated well-enough to insulate their lives from all ugly things.
posted by ardgedee at 4:18 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

What's wrong with a "knockoff"?

Nothing, in principle. But if part of your knocking-off process is changing things a bit just so to show that you didn't just totally copy the font, and the end result is as a result of those changes not quite right, well, feh. If you're going to copy, copy.
posted by cortex at 4:23 PM on August 23, 2007

> The only reason to prefer Helvetica to Arial is snobbery.

I don't care if you're tone deaf, don't try to convince me your kazoo is a piano.

Arial looks better than Helvetica on-screen at small resolutions because it was designed to be used that way. On printed documents it's acceptable mostly because it was born ugly, and the system standard text settings forced on it can't really make it worse.

Helvetica really is a more handsome font in most of its current popular renderings. I still remember the 1980s when every laser printer and even some impact printers had proprietary Helvetica-ish renderings, uniformly ugly. Using Helvetica or Times (with something garish from Image Club for the titles) was the signature of the Desktop Publisher who called himself a Designer simply because he could afford the computer hardware and didn't have any friends who cared to contradict him. People sensitive to good design used Univers or Futura when they needed a good-looking sans, to emphasize that they weren't Desktop Publishers.
posted by ardgedee at 4:31 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]

Sometimes I used Comic Sans... a couple times you know. Shit. I dig Helvetica Neue now.
posted by kylefreund at 4:41 PM on August 23, 2007

Years ago, a friend and I were going to (erm, fantasizing about) write a virus which did one thing: deleted Sand from people's hard drives. I still think it's a great idea.

For years I've dreamt about doing the same thing to Matisse.
posted by thatswherebatslive at 4:42 PM on August 23, 2007

Cortex: "...Unless they started getting airplay every hour, every day, on every radio station and music channel and car commercial in the nation..."

You just described an element of my heaven, Cortex.

A world in which radio stations played bands with no resources that love what they do, as opposed to the superficial twaddle currently passing for pop, or the worn path of the Middle of the Road from the past half century ad infinitum.

I now take back everything bad I ever had bad to say about that font. If you're comparing that font to those bands, then Color me Sans, man. Color me Sans!
posted by ZachsMind at 4:44 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Jesus folks, people who have issues with a font, well they have issues. Get back on your meds. Either that or you are trying way, way too hard to be cool by putting something else down. (I don't know, I just looked at this font again. It is hardly elegant but this hipster dissing is weird.)
posted by caddis at 4:47 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Matt, you son of a bitch.
posted by cortex at 4:47 PM on August 23, 2007 [33 favorites]

Note from admin: This thread gets a special treatment
posted by mathowie at 4:47 PM on August 23, 2007 [26 favorites]

This thread has officially weirded me out. I checked it out earlier this afternoon; particularly, lekvar's comment about Sand. Thought, "Huh, Sand really is worse than Comic Sans." Didn't think much more of it until I went to my local brewpub after work. The entire list of beers except for one was printed in Comic Sans. The other (very special, barrel-aged Belgian-style beer)? Printed in Sand.
posted by cog_nate at 4:49 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

What's wrong with a "knockoff"?

In PostScript-based printing Arial is ten times more likely to fail epically, whereas Helvetica works nearly every time. Helvetica, from a printing standpoint and a purely technical point of view, is a professional font. Arial is not.
posted by lekvar at 4:49 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

This is the best thread on MeFi in a LONG time. Not only are we getting Font Freaks, but Mac Fanboys in here AS WELL AS Comic books dorks. Im like in internet elitism nirvana
posted by subaruwrx at 4:49 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]

this thread just went from "best" to "BRILLIANT"!
posted by subaruwrx at 4:50 PM on August 23, 2007

I ♥ Matt.
posted by caddis at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2007

This thread is now officially 110% more wacky and casual!
posted by maxwelton at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2007 [5 favorites]

"Just a little reminder"

please DON'T!!! make popcorn
in the break room microwave
before Lunch time

the oder is very strong
and some of us would like
to be able to "smell"
the food we brought too eat

thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!!
posted by cortex at 4:58 PM on August 23, 2007 [72 favorites]

Oh my god!
posted by soundofsuburbia at 4:58 PM on August 23, 2007

I'm feeling strangely hilarious (yet fuglardically uggersly)! This guestbook is funnee! LOL! Kittehs!!!11one
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Matt, you missed some spots.
posted by ardgedee at 5:00 PM on August 23, 2007

1. Nice work, Matt.

2. Sure, it's overused by parents, teachers, and lazy secretaries, but hey, at least it's not Remedy, for crying out loud.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2007

I am so glad that I have Comic Sans turned off on this computer at all times and susequently can't see whatever atrocity Matt has chosent to subject us to.
posted by lekvar at 5:03 PM on August 23, 2007

epic sans!
posted by arialblack at 5:10 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Jesus Christ.

Also, this is the best thread EVAR.
posted by kalimac at 5:13 PM on August 23, 2007

Matt, that was wonderful, thank you.

I have to say, Comic Sans looks quite nice in italics, all things considered.

But how will it look in bold? Hmm.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:14 PM on August 23, 2007

THIS THREAD SUCKS
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:15 PM on August 23, 2007

Comic Sans is extremely useful in deciding who you want to talk to. You don't want to talk to anyone who uses Comic Sans.
posted by voltairemodern at 1:04 PM on August 23

Pwned!
posted by the other side at 5:19 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]

This just made my afternoon.
posted by serazin at 5:21 PM on August 23, 2007

it's so cute and tiny. and comical. and devoid of serifs.

this is not so good, though.
posted by dersins at 5:25 PM on August 23, 2007

Every time I see Comic Sans, which is WAY more often than warranted, I can't help but point and cry. Seriously. It's such a horrible crime to use it.
posted by Meagan at 5:31 PM on August 23, 2007

Matt's always been cool, but he just went kelvin.

Refreshing the page and seeing the font suddenly change like that? ROTFLMAO! Next April Fools, Matt should make the whole website go Comic Sans just to tick people off.

Best. Thread. So-Far.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:39 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

I never cared much before about font-hatred but I've just read this whole thread , and gotta admit...this font sure is ugly.
posted by typewriter at 5:41 PM on August 23, 2007

bug report: the iPhone does not have comic sans
posted by mathowie at 5:42 PM on August 23, 2007 [5 favorites]

Thank you so much for that, DevilsRancher. Until now, I never knew the name of the ubiquitous "playful" font I so loathe.

The Remedy is (almost) worse than the disease.
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:51 PM on August 23, 2007

I guess I'm missing out. My preferences already had Comic Sans as my default font.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:53 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Great hand lettering.
posted by doctor_negative at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2007

I always associate comic san's with errant apostrophe's and unnecessary "quotes."
posted by eyeballkid at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2007 [4 favorites]

I just want to feel involved in the thread.
posted by Shutter at 5:57 PM on August 23, 2007

After staring at this thread for a long time, the FP just looks so... skinny!
posted by Citizen Premier at 6:04 PM on August 23, 2007

Quick Matt, turn the page hot neon pink and add little butterflies trailing the cursor!!!

xxxcutelilsweetyxxx
posted by ntartifex at 6:06 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

This whole thread has reminded me just how little I like this font.
posted by Surfyournut at 6:08 PM on August 23, 2007

BTW at the moment I'm viewing MeFi in the white background with black lettering, and I think comic sans looks good this way. Would hate to see it In The Blue as it were. Probably is ugly that way, but if the font was intended to be loosely based off word balloons in comic books, it's meant to be viewed black-on-white.

The Con-Air guy wrote that he had used Frank Miller's Dark Knight series as a guide for Comic Sans - I don't see it. Who originally lettered that thing anyway? Frank Miller himself? Did he and Klaus Janson do the lettering together, or did the effort go uncredited by someone else? Letterers are often the unsung heroes of 20th century comics. I understand that nowadays most of it's done using computer fonts instead of real people - and guess what font they ain't using?
posted by ZachsMind at 6:09 PM on August 23, 2007

I didn't actively hate comic sans before this post (mostly I'd just sigh and move on after reading any materials printed in it), but thanks to having just read all the way through the thread in its current format, I now actively hate comic sans. I have a headache. Comic sans is massively unreadable for any prolonged period of time (say, more than one minute).

Ugh.
posted by tzikeh at 6:10 PM on August 23, 2007

ZachsMind writes "Refreshing the page and seeing the font suddenly change like that?"

Ah, OK, now it makes sense. I don't have Comic Sans on this non-MS machine. Wasn't sure what was going on. This is the only time I wish the font was installed. I don't hate it, but it does make everything look like a bake sale.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:10 PM on August 23, 2007

The Remedy is (almost) worse than the disease.

I quite like that font up close.
posted by Surfyournut at 6:13 PM on August 23, 2007

In order to make it look comic-ish, you need to randomly emphasize certain words.
posted by jefbla at 6:15 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

I am not a huge fan of Comic Sans but I'm glad it exists because before it existed people just used Tekton for the same kinds of things, which clearly wrong.
posted by aubilenon at 6:22 PM on August 23, 2007

GUYS! COME QUICK! I FOUND THE SON OF A BITCH WHO INVENTED COMIC SANS!

(I'm surprised we've gone 100 comments without that showing up yet.)
posted by neckro23 at 6:24 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

*head explodes*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:27 PM on August 23, 2007

This font slows down my reading speed noticeably.

Classic Kelvin, mathowie!
posted by LanTao at 6:28 PM on August 23, 2007

Sure, it's overused by parents, teachers, and lazy secretaries, but hey, at least it's not Remedy, for crying out loud.

Amen! THANK YOU Devils Rancher! I never knew the name of that horrible font--I knew only that it has irked me to an increasing degree each year since its early 1990's explosion on basically all "classy-yet-fun" restaurant menus. (The Remedy font is, to me, synonymous with brunch in the 1990's--and in my opinion the font was only slightly less perishable than the Tuscan Fritatta Omelet it heralded with its studiously quirky, kokopellian glee.) I can tolerate the awfulness of Comic Sans. But today I cannot take anything seriously if it is transmitted in that vapid, Remedy font... Remedy is the Deadhead girl's answer to dotting one's "i"s with a "heart."

Thank you kindred spirit.
posted by applemeat at 6:29 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]

(I'm surprised we've gone 100 comments without that showing up yet.)

It's in the post.
posted by dhruva at 6:31 PM on August 23, 2007

Note from admin: This thread gets a special treatment

why you do this
posted by oaf at 6:49 PM on August 23, 2007

I like Comic Sans. It's good for what it's good for.

Generally, "what it's good for" is equivalent to "making it easy to determine whose e-mails you shouldn't bother reading."

There are many, many better sans fonts. Optima is my favorite. Hell, even Impact is better.
posted by oaf at 6:57 PM on August 23, 2007

typewriter writes "I never cared much before about font-hatred but I've just read this whole thread , and gotta admit...this font sure is ugly."

You're nothing but a one trick pony, typewriter. With you it's all Courier, Courier, Courier...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:03 PM on August 23, 2007 [6 favorites]

god this is horrible

also, Vincent Connare sounds like a complete idiot, and I hope his address isn't online, because someone is going to find him.
posted by blacklite at 7:04 PM on August 23, 2007

Earlier I linked to BlamBot as a joke but I'm scanning through their freebies and now I know what I'll be downloading on my home computer tonight. In fact, fonts like Alter Ego, Sidekick and Comic Geek look like what Comic Sans wanted to be but couldn't. I might end up actually buying a couple of these before I'm through. I wonder if I just renamed EuroComic as Comic Sans if I'd be happier in the long run? Or would I notice the difference?
posted by ZachsMind at 7:05 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Wow. Okay, it does suck.
posted by yhbc at 7:06 PM on August 23, 2007

You think you guys have it bad? I've had letters from my boss docking my pay for striking and warning of draconian measures to come written in comic sans.

Also: Helvetica? Jesus. The holy triumvirate of who-gives-a-shit: Times New Roman, Helvetica and Comic Sans. All three say the same thing, and that thing is "whu?" Using any of them is like going out in a tracksuit. Sure, it's comfy, but goddamn it, aren't your words worth a tailored suit?
posted by bonaldi at 7:08 PM on August 23, 2007 [2 favorites]

Like lucidprose, I've been seeing Papyrus everywhere. I think Papyrus is the next one for the hammer. Everyone seems to use it when they want something "exotic" or "Asian" or something. It bugs me.
posted by jiawen at 7:11 PM on August 23, 2007

Oh, and so this is what we're doing instead of upgrading the servers?!@?

YOUR MOTHER DOESNT WORK HERE CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELFS
posted by yhbc at 7:12 PM on August 23, 2007

Okay so what three fonts would you guys want as replacements of Times New Roman, Comic Sans, and Helvetica? We're chaffing about the fonts that exist in Microsoft but I don't hear many solutions. ARE there fonts that blow these away so much that one should just install them as replacements? How might be the best way to go about doing that without Windows freaking out and having a cow?
posted by ZachsMind at 7:18 PM on August 23, 2007

+1 cool point to Matt Haughey
posted by Ynoxas at 7:19 PM on August 23, 2007

Matt for teh biggest win of all tim. Almost unbelievably amusing, having the thread in Comic Sans.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:24 PM on August 23, 2007

Zachsmind: I reckon there's nothing wrong with Helvetica, or even Times New Roman for that matter.

I'm not a typeweenie (though I am design-conscious, in a dilettantey kind of way), but the Segoe and the other new system fonts MS released with Vista are quite nice, and they can be found and installed/used in XP. (The download from that link is dead, but a quick Google will find many other places that you can get the fonts if you're so inclines)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:26 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

As an editor, I've now come to notice whenever a movie uses Lucida Grande in all of its titling.

Lucida Grande is the default font in Final Cut Pro. You know an editor's lazy if that's what he/she uses.
posted by fungible at 7:31 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

ARE there fonts that blow these away so much that one should just install them as replacements?
The thing is, that's kinda like saying "OK so I shouldn't wear my tracksuit everywhere. What can I wear, then?". The answer isn't going to be "this shirt and this tie", because that's going to be no use at the beach or when out running. Fonts need to roughly match what their task, just like clothes do.

That said, you can still have standbys, I suppose. For sans ( eg Helvetica) I usually use Scala Sans. For serif (Times) I like Minion.

As far as Windows goes, Microsoft has already introduced new default fonts in Vista, and the new default font in Office (Calibri, is it?) is quite attractive, so at least everyone's out of shell-suits and into nice terry-towelling.
posted by bonaldi at 7:32 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

No Comic Sans on my typewriter, dagnabbit.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:36 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

I reckon there's nothing wrong with Helvetica, or even Times New Roman for that matter.
Helvetica can be a really pretty font, but it takes really careful setting -- by default it is set way too tightly, like a fat man in a skin-tight top. Most people can't set it carefully, so it usually looks ass.

Times, on the other hand, is a nasty, nasty font. It was designed to be legible when printed at very high speed by churlish ink-stained men on shitty cheap newsprint, and also is cramped so as to conserve space. Unless you're running on bog roll, printed cold offset, there's a better font out there. Georgia was designed to be Times for the screen, and even it prints better on a laser printer. (I use Georgia for my MeFi font, actually.)
posted by bonaldi at 7:40 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Matt, I really hate the fonts Memphis, Polish Dirty News, Rough Riders Redux, Icognito, and Solex.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:47 PM on August 23, 2007

ONOMATOPOEIA!!!!
posted by Mach5 at 7:54 PM on August 23, 2007

Georgia! Georgia! Georgia!
posted by oddman at 7:56 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

Instructions for making coffee:

1. Put the cofee in the filter.
2. Press the button only ONCE!!!!!!
3. You will have coffee in about 5min.
3. If you press the button more than once, the coffee WILL be in an overflow situation and office services should be alerted per Barb.
4. "We all have to work here so please remember to pick up after yourself."

Have a good one!
posted by Mid at 7:59 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

FRITTATA!
posted by SassHat at 8:12 PM on August 23, 2007

Scrolling down this thread has become like scraping my eyes with sandpaper. Comic sandpaper.
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:16 PM on August 23, 2007 [3 favorites]

Hrmmmmm....

I stopped downloading fonts a couple windows upgrades ago. Got tiresome trying to personalize my windows experience. I mostly just go with the default settings now whenever I can stomach it. Still, BoomBot looks like fun..

Life's too short. Nowadays I mostly just go with whatever's the default font in a given proggie or website. It's passing strange that so many have such fervor and passion regarding fonts.

Bonaldi: "The thing is, that's kinda like saying "OK so I shouldn't wear my tracksuit everywhere. What can I wear, then?". The answer isn't going to be "this shirt and this tie", because that's going to be no use at the beach or when out running. Fonts need to roughly match what their task, just like clothes do."

Frankly, if I had my druthers, I'd just wear jeans, a collared pullover, and sneakers at all times. Maybe occasionally sweats. I guess for some, dressing text up in different fonts is like dressing up for a special occasion. I just try to spell correctly as best as I can.

I'd like to spice up the titles in my YouTube videos. I fear suffering through the problems we had in the early days of website design, when people would use Stupid Web Tricks essentially cuz they just learned them, whether they were appropriate for their home page or not.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:24 PM on August 23, 2007

Matt, you got jokes son.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:25 PM on August 23, 2007

I love Comic Sans! Thanks Matthowie for making this whole thread Comic Sans! This rocks! I--

*dramatic chord*

OHMIGAWD! I'VE JUST GONE BLIND! HEP ME SUMBODEE!!!11!!!one!!!!
posted by ZachsMind at 8:32 PM on August 23, 2007

To cortex, yhbc and Mid:
"Thank You"
I Can't Read "Comic Sans"
Without Thinking of Every
Freakin'
Passive-Aggressive
Office "Announcement" With Inappropriate "Quotation Marks"
Scattered "Willy Nilly" Throughout.

Yes My Goddamn Mother Works Here
And She Knows What's In Store For Her
If She Doesn't Clean Up After My Slovenly Ass
ThankUVeryMuch Mr Fox In Sox SIR!!!
posted by maryh at 8:33 PM on August 23, 2007

FONTS????????????
posted by jcruelty at 8:39 PM on August 23, 2007

This is aces -- fun, a great example of why Comic Sans just ain't no good, and I feel like I'm in a really shabby indie comic!

Look at me, I'm emphasizing my dialogue with no sense of rythym or inflection whatsoever! I would have tried making a crappy balloon using Unicode, but I'm sure the formatting would turn into a dog's breakfast upon hitting 'Post'!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:40 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

The reason Comic Sans is the most hated font is because everybody forgot about San Francisco.
posted by mazola at 8:43 PM on August 23, 2007 [1 favorite]

You know, I was going to come along to say that I find Comic Sans perfectly readable. Except now I know I don't. At all.

(this is really cool, though.)
posted by rtha at 8:46 PM on August 23, 2007

So, in Safari, is this actually Chalkboard? Aww, it's so cute in the live preview... I just want to keep typing.
posted by smackfu at 8:56 PM on August 23, 2007

WHAT
THE
FUCK
MATT?
posted by loquacious at 8:58 PM on August 23, 2007 [7 favorites]

smackfu: we got comic sans ms on OS X also, and seeing that the font entry in the source is comic sans ms, its what we are looking at, and now im glad i preemptively took an excedrin.
posted by mrzarquon at 9:11 PM on August 23, 2007

I confess to using Comic Sans on my old business card. I did freelance computer tutoring under the name User Friendly Studio, and the tagline "Computer training and consulting" was in Comic Sans. It did give the card a friendly feel I guess. But it was also over 10 years ago.
posted by The Deej at 9:20 PM on August 23, 2007

A video interview with Connare!
posted by GuyZero at 9:22 PM on August 23, 2007

This is pretty reasonable for one-line comments.

For big blocks of text, ow. Come to think of it, I never read big blocks of text in real comics either.
posted by aubilenon at 9:27 PM on August 23, 2007

Comic Sans is a curse of modern scientific discourse. Seriously; it's not just the wacky secretary who uses it; I've sees Comic Sans busted out by many the serious, respected researcher. Mostly Europeans, come to think of it.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:46 PM on August 23, 2007

Back in college, we were lucky enough to have an Overstreet Price Guide editor on staff in the English dept. He did comics as literature courses and always used the Comic Sans font on the syllabi and pop quizzes.

Some things just fit right into place.
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:47 PM on August 23, 2007

Ah, I see. Comic Sans on OS X too. Bummer.

And honestly, I think Chalkboard does look like a chalkboard... it reminds me of the Simpsons opening.
posted by smackfu at 10:12 PM on August 23, 2007

groooaaaaan

/zombie
posted by porpoise at 10:44 PM on August 23, 2007

Seriously; it's not just the wacky secretary who uses it; I've sees Comic Sans busted out by many the serious, respected researcher.

Lawrence freakin' Lessig uses Comic Sans in all his IM communication. The guy argued a Supreme Court case fercrissakes!
posted by mathowie at 10:44 PM on August 23, 2007

Shit. I'm going back to my LiveJournal, where I use Futura Light and Caslon exclusively.

Matt, please turn image posting back on so I can post my awesome "Ban Comic Sanz" icon.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:35 PM on August 23, 2007

If one needed more proof of the power of Matt's combined love and contempt for his userbase, surely this is it.
posted by sparkletone at 12:08 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

whew this makes my eyes hurt, which means I either had too much alcohol or have been reading too much Metafilter in Comic Sans, perhaps a combination
posted by edgeways at 12:26 AM on August 24, 2007

Fun fact: did you know that the original Gutenberg Bible was printed in the komisch außen typeface? Or at least, it will be once my time machine is complete. Take that, hundreds of years of literature.
posted by Gary at 2:04 AM on August 24, 2007 [2 favorites]

Haven't read a wrod in this thread.
posted by carsonb at 2:16 AM on August 24, 2007

(Typing with eyes clsoed.)
posted by carsonb at 2:16 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

must....stop....Gary!

The first design house I worked at, we had an ongoing challenge to design something elegant with hobo. Nobody ever won.

I don't have comic sans installed on my mac, and this whole thread is in times for me. This will be the one and only time I wish I had comic sans installed. Not enough to go get it, mind you....
posted by monkey!knife!fight! at 2:29 AM on August 24, 2007

This is epic fucking win.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:13 AM on August 24, 2007

FRIDAY SUMMER FUN MEMO FOR AUGUST 24TH!!!

Tuesday is now "Fun Day!"
Everyone, please remember that due to Accounts Receivable's new policy on sneakers in the workplace, the "only" acceptable day for wearing them is Tuesday. So each and every Tuesday, let's "get the lead out"!!!!!

Halogen Lamp is a NO-GO
It has recently come to our attention that a certain member of our Summer Team has been keeping a halogen lamp on his desk. Need I don't need to remind us all, that is a fire hazard. People, let's "PLAY IT SAFE"!!!

Shirley's birthday is next Wednesday
Shirley Fox will be celebrating her birthday in the breakroom next Wednesday from 2:00 to 2:15. Marie Antoinette said "Let Them Eat Cake" -- wait a minute, cake??? That gives me an idea!!!

Keep it CLEAN!!!
Finally, let's all remember that the Coke machine in the lobby is an INAPPROPRIATE PLACE for "dirty jokes" about my "daughter." Let's only hit "above the belt," everyone!!!

Summer Loving, Happened So Fast!!!
-Tom
posted by Greg Nog at 4:26 AM on August 24, 2007 [22 favorites]

at the moment this set of slides are popular on progamming language blogs/sites. they're written by one of the great recent contributors to compuer science. yay for the ubernerd's aesthetic sense.
posted by andrew cooke at 4:51 AM on August 24, 2007

When you're a designer and you see something bad...

OK, that's far enough: What's "bad"? Why is what's "bad", bad?

Sure, designers can produce objective criteria like proportion and kerning and x-height, but it's very rare that I've seen anyone bother to explain why those things are good or bad with regard to a specific font.

Again: Font freaks -- and designers in general -- have a great capacity for confusing "I don't like it" with "bad." The problem is that designers get a pass for having to explain the reasons for their aesthetic judgements because they're talking about "art". Only "artists" get to make aesthetic decisions about art.

With code, you can make objective determinations that are hard to argue with: This code executes faster; this code compiles faster; this code is better documented; this code is clearer; this code integrates with other code more cleanly.

But with typefaces, it's rare to see evaluations based on practical criteria. Oh, they exist, and they can be determined, but only very very rarely are they mentioned. What's really interesting is where they're mentioned. For example, you can document that Verdana and Comic Sans are both really easy to read at low resolutions, such as on screens.* I personally don't like Verdana at all, but I use it all the time for this very reason. I can recall only a handfull of times that I've heard other more high-status fonts defended in this way, and in fact, as far as I can tell, many of them fail. Helvetica, for example, doesn't work well at all in low res situations: It breaks up badly and it's difficult to scan words that use 'i' and 'l' in close proximity. I actually find it really hard to read in print (high-res), for that matter. Mind you, I always liked the way it looked, but I always found it hard to read.

Palatino is an exception. I used to often hear it praised for its readability in print, and I used to choose it whenever the opportunity afforded for that reason. But I've never been happy with it in low res. (I've only rarely been happy with a serif typeface for normal-size copy on screens.)

So there are a lot of fonts out there that designers hate, that are objectively "good" in that they're easy to read.

So here's a suggestion: Instead of saying "Comic Sans is bad", why don't you instead say "I find Comic Sans to be ugly." You'd be taking strides in honesty and accuracy. After all, by some objective measures, Comic Sans is documentably good.

--
*So's 'Architect', which is a knockoff of Tekton, which I've never seen on any computer I worked with. I love Architect. Very readable down to very small point sizes, in print and on screen, and "fun" without being "funky". But I hardly ever see it, anymore, either.
posted by lodurr at 5:53 AM on August 24, 2007 [4 favorites]

This thread: thing of beauty and a joy forever.
posted by fiercecupcake at 5:53 AM on August 24, 2007

ZachsMind: Okay so what three fonts would you guys want as replacements of Times New Roman, Comic Sans, and Helvetica?

Given the choice, I'd personally pick Palatino, Architect and Trebuchet. (I use Trebuchet to start most of my font cascades for body copy.) I don't like Palatino much for screen work, though, even in headlines -- Arial Black for that, maybe, degrading to Arial, then Verdana.

(I used to set my browser default to Comic Sans. It was a good quick way to immediately tell if the web developers / designers had bothered to establish a base font, because it was glaring and obvious but still left the page usable. I could have used Impact or something like that, but the pages would have become unusable.)
posted by lodurr at 6:03 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

Connare posts on typophile.com and the worst thing about it that everyone there is too nice to tell him he is genuinely a really shitty designer.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:09 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

OK, I swear this is not the "Architect" that used to be baked into HP printers. So if I've confused anyone, I apologize. I do swear that one looked just like Tekton.
posted by lodurr at 6:14 AM on August 24, 2007

No, lodurr, it's bad. Empirically so.
posted by grubi at 6:19 AM on August 24, 2007

(I used to set my browser default to Comic Sans. It was a good quick way to immediately tell if the web developers / designers had bothered to establish a base font, because it was glaring and obvious but still left the page usable. I could have used Impact or something like that, but the pages would have become unusable.)

What's wrong with not establishing a base font? I mean, why not go with the user's preference?
posted by delmoi at 6:32 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

You know, I never truly understood the Comic Sans hatred before. I've used it a few times for titles. I think it looks okay in caps for funny/non-serious stuff.

But, wow, after rereading this thread, now I get the hate. This font should just never be used, ever.
posted by Malor at 6:36 AM on August 24, 2007

Empirically?

You'll be able to provide empirical evidence, then, right? Test results? Maybe heuristics that are backed up by empirical evidence?

Or do you mean to say that you have consistently found it to be aesthetically displeasing?
posted by lodurr at 6:39 AM on August 24, 2007

What's wrong with not establishing a base font? I mean, why not go with the user's preference?

It wasn't a moral judgement. It was just a way of understanding how the page was working.

That said, the answer to "why not" is usually "because someone who's paying me required a specific font." Anyway, users with that strong of a preference can always over-ride it.
posted by lodurr at 6:42 AM on August 24, 2007

Non-empirical: I hate Comic Sans.
Empirical: In a survey of 17,000 randomly selected subjects, 93.4% of respondents reported that they hate Comic Sans.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:47 AM on August 24, 2007

Now, this is comedy.
posted by four panels at 6:55 AM on August 24, 2007

Lots of things that people hate produce the desired result.

People hate the species of direct mail that's peppered with boldfaced points of emphasis, uses really action-oriented language, and tells the recipient over and over again to buy the product.

1. It usually also has lots of bullet points.
2. And those bullet points are really just ways of making people see the sentences.
3. Instead of just scanning past them!

And it uses really short paragraphs.

Did we mention that it's always reminding you to buy the product?

But the thing is, generations of research has proven that the style, though nigh-universally loathed, works.

Similar point: Jerod Pore did usability studies on websites back in the 90s. His team found that people were most productive with the sites they liked least, and least productive with the sites they liked best. The sample wasn't large and the correlations weren't strong enough to say that it was liking that made the site less useful, but you could clearly see that preference didn't equate to utility.

So, even if you weren't just pulling that out of your ass, it would still not be to the point. The point being, preference don't mean shit if the metric is utility.
posted by lodurr at 6:56 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

"The weight of this sad time we must obey;
Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say.
The oldest hath borne most: we that are young
Shall never see so much, nor live so long"


Not so tragic now, are you, Lear?
posted by four panels at 6:58 AM on August 24, 2007 [8 favorites]

thatswherebatslive writes "For years I've dreamt about doing the same thing to Matisse."

My uncle used to use Matisse as the default font in Windows. Seriously. Every damn window title and menu was essentially unreadable. I think he thought it looked "wild" and "cool" for my cousins. It scarred me, but I managed to repress that until you mentioned the font. Thanks.

mr_roboto writes "I've sees Comic Sans busted out by many the serious, respected researcher. Mostly Europeans, come to think of it."

That's because they're trying to go easy on us dumb Americans. At home, with no New World dummies in sight, they use shit like Gill Sans for everything.

...and Matt, you're just an evil bastard, and I mean that in the best possible sense. Turning the hate on the haters. Ouch.

(I actually took the time to hack together a Greasemonkey script to strip Comic Sans from web pages. I am trying to resist turning that script on right now. Much as I hate to say it, this thread is useless unless it's in Comic Sans.)
posted by caution live frogs at 7:23 AM on August 24, 2007

Next, someone has to make an FPP on the bean clipart man
posted by anthill at 7:56 AM on August 24, 2007

just caught up

eyes bleeding

quitting metafilter 4 evar
posted by cortex at 7:58 AM on August 24, 2007

Jesus, you guys are such tramps.
posted by lodurr at 8:07 AM on August 24, 2007

I'm with stupid
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 8:27 AM on August 24, 2007

"It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."

I love Comic Sans! =)
posted by ZachsMind at 8:35 AM on August 24, 2007 [1 favorite]

I DON'T CARE!
I'D RATHER SINK --
THAN CALL BRAD
FOR HELP!
posted by