No Darwin, No Hitler
September 10, 2007 2:38 PM   Subscribe

Darwin's Deadly Legacy illustrates how Charles Darwin caused the Holocaust. This documentary, from the late Dr. James Kennedy and his Coral Ridge Ministries, features not only rare, Bigfoot-esque glimpses of the notoriously camera-shy Ann Coulter, but also Francis Collins, the head of the Human Genome Project. Of course, Dr. Collins hates everything about the documentary and claims that his footage was simply spliced in under false pretenses, and even Michael Behe distances himself from the entire production, disagreeing as he does with its central tenets. Oh, and the ADL is pissed, but when aren't they? Anyway, not even arch-conservative websites with "We Need Alan Keyes For President" interstitial ads think the documentary is worth very much. And it seems that Hitler himself had a grand old time pimping out Christianity and denying that we came from apes. (More, more.) So watch the fucking trailer and learn yourself some history.
posted by Sticherbeast (69 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

 
Next up: how Jesus Christ, son of God, caused cancer.
posted by DaShiv at 2:42 PM on September 10, 2007


You know who else Hitler couldn't have existed without?

Hitler.

Think about it.
posted by ND¢ at 2:44 PM on September 10, 2007


Darwin also caused Hurricane Katrina and 9/11.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 2:47 PM on September 10, 2007


For the trailer, a LiveVideo.com link for those who choose not to suckle from the tainted teat of RealPlayer.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:50 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


No, that was the homosexuals.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 2:50 PM on September 10, 2007


No batshitinsane tag?

Bad form.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:51 PM on September 10, 2007


it's like a perfect storm.
posted by boo_radley at 2:55 PM on September 10, 2007


You'll be hearing from my solicitor in the morning.
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:01 PM on September 10, 2007 [6 favorites]


Do porpoises recycle? Ann's blurb in the trailer is absolutely nonsensical. Unreal!

What a freaking mish-mash. What happens when people discard all reason (but not their home-version video editing software.)
posted by newdaddy at 3:02 PM on September 10, 2007


Next up: how Jesus Christ, son of God, caused cancer.

Didn't he like get all pissed off at the Jews? How come only Hitler gets all the hate?
posted by c13 at 3:03 PM on September 10, 2007


This just in: Smith & Wesson is the cause of all murder.

And: Mother's milk leads to heroine use.
posted by effwerd at 3:05 PM on September 10, 2007


A couple of scholarly treatments of the same subect:

From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany / Richard Weikart.

The scientific origins of National Socialism: Social Darwinism in Ernst Haeckel and the German Monist League / Daniel Gasman.
posted by No Robots at 3:06 PM on September 10, 2007


You'd think that Christians would understand how one person's ideas can twisted around and used for evil, totally unintended purposes.
posted by brevator at 3:13 PM on September 10, 2007 [18 favorites]


Someone's told me this before but that's all I had ever heard of it. How widespread is this view among conservatives? Have any credible scholars written about the subject?
posted by clockworkjoe at 3:15 PM on September 10, 2007


Gasman? For real?
posted by AwkwardPause at 3:23 PM on September 10, 2007


Also: No Judas Priest, no suicide.
posted by katillathehun at 3:24 PM on September 10, 2007


Wow, so there was no racism, genocide, or pograms before Darwin? Golly, I had no idea.
posted by tula at 3:30 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


If it wasn't for The Muppet Show, I would never have started worshipping the devil. Or become a costermonger.

Damn that Vincent Price episode. Damn it to hell.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:32 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


This is as good a place as any to link this review.

The question I'm asking myself is if what this film proposes is so ridiculous that it (the film) should be popularised to discredit its advocates, or just believable enough to do a lot of damage.
posted by topynate at 3:32 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


That's a website about Florida.
posted by gallois at 3:33 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


SHOW ME THE FOSSILS, BITCH
posted by quonsar at 3:37 PM on September 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


For a palate cleanser, may I remind you that James Burke covered the same territory in part 8 of The Day the Universe Changed?

And really, wouldn't you rather spend a couple of hours with James Burke than with James Kennedy?
posted by gimonca at 3:47 PM on September 10, 2007


I guess bits of it are on that YouTube thing, too.
posted by gimonca at 3:50 PM on September 10, 2007


features not only rare, Bigfoot-esque glimpses of the notoriously camera-shy Ann Coulter,

i'd like to flag that line as awesome. not lol, but it gave me one of those nice little chuckles you need after work.
posted by andywolf at 3:59 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Communists were explicitly atheists and killed millions and also referred to Darwin.

Why bother with the National Socialists?
posted by sien at 4:02 PM on September 10, 2007


hahahahahahahah!!!
The malicious stupidity represented in the trailer is overwhelming.
Anne Coulter is brilliant as ususal.
posted by dougzilla at 4:09 PM on September 10, 2007


There was a eugenics program in the U.S. too. (I understand Mensa was all over that). But y’know, this all goes back to Plato
with superior men and superior women having intercourse as frequently as possible...which, admittedly, I’m hard pressed to refute, but he gets into the opposite too - inferior people shouldn’t reproduce. So then, who’s inferior? Or rather, who gets to choose who’s inferior? And the Spartans (et.al) killed deformed infants.
All Darwin did was deliver empirical data on evolution.

And really - what kind of attack or position is this? It’s so obtuse and facile I’m having a hard time following whatever the hell it is they’re saying. Even granting the (spurious) claim Hitler was all about Darwin, call it Darwinian Socialism, hey call them the Darzis, put Darwin’s face in 1/2 profile with a monkey on the other half instead of the Swastika. So?
What difference could that possibly make to the formation of any position one way or the other?

The Heaven’s Gate cult chopped their balls off and took poison to jump on a comet. That doesn’t negate Astronomy as a useful science.
(Also why is the ADL so pissed? You'd think they'd be on board. Look at all their Florida membership that voted for Pat Buchanan)
posted by Smedleyman at 4:11 PM on September 10, 2007


But staunch communist J Stalin renounced Darwin for Lysenko.
And he didn't advocate 'teach the controversy', he, in his all-too-imitable fashion, advocated 'execute the controversiers'.
And he did it, too.
posted by hexatron at 4:19 PM on September 10, 2007


Actually, I watched this on TV a couple weeks ago. Really.
posted by washburn at 4:23 PM on September 10, 2007


He's an ape, man.
posted by oncogenesis at 4:39 PM on September 10, 2007


Wow. I wish I had something clever and MeFi'ish to say here, but I'm always so consistently flabbergasted by this sideways thinking that every time I'm exposed to it, my primary reaction is just to giggle uncontrollably. Someone needs to give that Coulture lady a TV show, I bet she'd be a hit.
posted by Aversion Therapy at 4:42 PM on September 10, 2007


In the Holocaust camps, they used the word "Selection" !!!1!!1! So did the Columbine shooters!!!

Man, that's good enough for me. From now on, I'm just going to grab fruits and vegetables haphazardly from the grocery stand, because I don't want to be involved in any Nazi SELECTION process!

A porpoise? WTF Coulter?
posted by papakwanz at 5:04 PM on September 10, 2007


Ah this is hilarious !

"To put is simply...no darwin..no hitler" !

Ahahaha they really are bamboozling the audience ! Darwin talk's about natural selection as a process that happens..it-just-happens. It's like rain, it's not caused by humans, but some humans tought it was "nature" deciding to rain, as if nature was an human being. Similarly some people understood that many people think "fittest" means "best" , but that's evidently wrong : coffee fits bets into a coffee machine, because the machine was made to use it. Coffee doesn't fit in a car engine as well, but that doesn't mean the coffee is "bad" , it's just "unfit" for the car engine.

Similarly, a bacteria needing a lot of methane to survive wouldn't "fit" in a world full of oxygen like ours , but it doesn't mean it's "bad" or "worst" ...it just doesn't fit well and doesn't reproduce just as much as bacteria needing oxygen. In layman terms, if you are good at math you fit better in math intensive works , while a person good at speaking would fit as well as you.

But it is very easy to blame Darwin for Hitler's alleged misinterpretation and misuse of darwin's theory. It's the same logic of blaming "jews" for something , let's blame you for not being so informed your boss is abusing you , let's blame the rape victim for being "too tempting".

It's convenient for people who blame liberals as hitler blamed jews and some of the dolts in the video nitpick and wordplay, deny they would ever do that....and they don't, but they follow the same logic betting you can't understand, exactly like most of the germans didn't understand how Goebbels bamboozled them.
posted by elpapacito at 5:16 PM on September 10, 2007


hey call them the Darzis

I can picture that! Little Daleks on skis! Cute!
posted by storybored at 5:23 PM on September 10, 2007


What about his parents?
Damn. 'To put it simply...no Mr. and Mrs. Hitler...umm, no Hitler.'

And Mein Kampf?
Shoot. 'To put it simply...err, no printing press...no Hitler.'

And didn't he use the Jews as scape goats?
Wow. Okay: 'To put it simply...no Jews...no....'
...wait a minute...
posted by toma at 5:38 PM on September 10, 2007 [2 favorites]


Not to bring logic into the discussion, but you don't need Darwin or a theory of evolution to introduce the concept of Eugenics. We bred plants and animals for thousands of years before Darwin.

I think as soon as someone came up with the idea of applying Mendel's discoveries to human beings, we'd have had the same result, Darwin and evolution or no.
posted by empath at 5:39 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


I home James Kennedy is rotting in hell now.
posted by mike3k at 5:51 PM on September 10, 2007


Er that should be I HOPE James Kennedy is rotting in hell.
posted by mike3k at 5:52 PM on September 10, 2007


Yeah--some logic: any brilliant theory can be completely misunderstood and abused. And the resultant disasters say absolutely nothing about the theory.
posted by toma at 5:57 PM on September 10, 2007


“Coffee doesn't fit in a car engine as well, but that doesn't mean the coffee is "bad" , it's just "unfit" for the car engine.”

*whistles nonchalantly*
*changes oil filter*
*sues Folgers for making unfit car engine coffee*

S’funny mike3k, I was picturing one of those “I (heart) whatever” things except with a little home.
Ah, I hope he’s in the atheist oblivion...except he knows he’s in the atheist oblivion...which, I guess wouldn’t be oblivion then. Hmm. Ok, I hope he’s in Cleveland.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:01 PM on September 10, 2007


I think as soon as someone came up with the idea of applying Mendel's discoveries to human beings, we'd have had the same result, Darwin and evolution or no.

And Mendel was an Augustinian monk. More than that, he was an abbot. Clearly then it would make sense to lay the blame for the Holocaust wholly at the feet of St. Augustine.

Of course, a simpler claim can be made that the attitudes which allowed the Holocaust to happen were in no small part due to the Vatican. Before the Warsaw Ghetto, there was the Roman Ghetto.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 6:54 PM on September 10, 2007


I've found it interesting that many of the same people who deny evolution and Darwinism are also rabid free-market capitalists who use the exact same theory to justify why it's perfectly alright for Shoptoplex to crush local businesses.

In other words, in matters where we, as intelligent beings, could opt to not act like mindless animals, it's perfectly alright to be red in tooth and claw. But when it comes to plain old biology, no, some higher force must prevail.
posted by Legomancer at 6:54 PM on September 10, 2007 [5 favorites]


Yea, so it features Ann Coulter... Not exactly sure it's going to be a balanced piece!
posted by opsin at 7:00 PM on September 10, 2007


Wow... Wish I hadn't watched the trailer! Ouch!
posted by opsin at 7:03 PM on September 10, 2007


notoriously camera-shy Ann Coulter

Nice turn of phrase there.
posted by LarryC at 7:19 PM on September 10, 2007


Seriously, Coulter cites the fossil record as not showing signs of evolution, and yet even the existence of the fossil record throws the validity of the bible into complete doubt!

It astonishes me how people can gloss over the evidence, when there really is only evidence on one side of the argument. And to talk about rational, logical people as if they're blind to the truth.
Nothing about religion makes sense, except possibly why the stupid might cling to it for hope.

Let's ignore that millions of years of evolution gave us morality; survival of the fittest is only going to work if you don't go around randomly killing off your species.

I know, preaching to the converted in this thread I'm sure, but much as I hate Richard Dawkins, I can understand how he can get so worked up on the subject.
posted by opsin at 7:21 PM on September 10, 2007


Ah. I like turtles, yes?
posted by humannaire at 7:33 PM on September 10, 2007


Communists were explicitly atheists and killed millions and also referred to Darwin.

Actually the Reds pushed Lamarck's theory more than Darwin's, so they could tell the herd that if they grew up to be big and strong, their kids would be, too (there's actually some truth to this). Lamarck's idea fit in more with the non-elitist notions of socialism, and the Soviets had the habit of believing what they wanted to believe.

We bred plants and animals for thousands of years before Darwin.

This is an outright falsehood. Bananas are a sign of God's love.
posted by Citizen Premier at 7:59 PM on September 10, 2007


I hope James Kennedy is rotting in hell now.

Just in his grave, actually.
posted by Reggie Digest at 8:13 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


Wow, total crap.

I can't remember where I read this, but someone had suggested that the historical climate around the time of things like Darwin's theory means that even had Darwin not bothered, that someone else would have likely come along and espoused the same ideas, either around the same time or at a later date.

The same could be said of Hitler, while it is easy to find him despicable, the climate was right for a man like him to come along.

In a similar vein, I particularly liked reading about the Holocaust historians that broke with the normal ranks and said basically that we should fear and remember the holocaust not because it was a unique horrible event but that given the right circumstances, that due to human nature, it could easily happen again.
posted by so_ at 9:10 PM on September 10, 2007


Clearly the Third Reich & the events of WW2 were inspired not by Darwin's Origin of Species, but by the Bible. Think about it:

Adam & Eve - Adolf and Eva
Eating the apple from the tree of knowledge - The Manhattan Project (Manhattan is in "The Big Apple")
The Fall - Der Untergang

:-)
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 9:21 PM on September 10, 2007


I hope James Kennedy is rotting in hell now.
Yeah, I hate that Jamie Kennedy guy too. He's such a smug asshole, and his stand-up sucks.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:22 PM on September 10, 2007


No bevets? What's wrong with MeFi?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:26 PM on September 10, 2007


No bevets? What's wrong with MeFi?

How can we summon him without images?
posted by flaterik at 10:17 PM on September 10, 2007


No God, no Godwin.
posted by dw at 10:40 PM on September 10, 2007 [1 favorite]


You'd think that Christians would understand how one person's ideas can twisted around and used for evil, totally unintended purposes.

They're usually the last ones to understand this, ironically.
posted by Avenger at 11:56 PM on September 10, 2007


/derail

Isn't that the inevitable mindset of a culture that sees fantasy as the ultimate reality? I'm not even talking about the existence of God, or the life of Christ.

The Catholic Church may see what Mother Teresa did as valuable, laudable. But they'll never nominate her for their greatest honor until they can concoct three 'miracles.'

Doesn't this undercut all her unbelievably hard work, all her sacrifices made to help those trapped in the hyper-real nightmares we're all familiar with? When someone else just stands up and twists it all around, lies, lazily details another convenient fantasy, aren't the 'miracle-needers' stuck with the nagging feeling it could be true? I know it would make my head spin.

re-rail/
posted by toma at 2:36 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


The "God is dead" philosophical movement was already on the rise in the late 1800s and the "age of enlightenment," or man's reasoning, had replaced God's truth. All the "isms," including Darwinism, took the rightful place of the "I AM." Men then desired, and continue their doomed-to-fail attempts, to create Utopia on Earth.

I'm having a wonderful time imagining what these doomed-to-fail attempts at Utopia are. Suffrage? The end of slavery?
posted by brundlefly at 3:38 AM on September 11, 2007


"Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

Whew. That's some grade-A Hitler right there!
posted by Avenger at 4:06 AM on September 11, 2007


Charles Darwin would never have done what he did if it weren't for violent video games!
posted by Foosnark at 6:23 AM on September 11, 2007


George W. Bush has eulogized Dr. James Kennedy as "a student of history."
posted by chlorus at 7:20 AM on September 11, 2007


I was going to demand a cite for that chlorus, but then I found it myself:
Dr. D. James Kennedy was a man of great vision, faith, and integrity. Under his leadership, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church of Florida developed from a small group of worshipers in an elementary school cafeteria into one of America's most prominent congregations.

Dr. Kennedy's message of love and hope inspired millions of Americans and others worldwide through the institutions he founded, including Coral Ridge Ministries, Knox Theological Seminary, and Westminster Academy. He was also a student of history and successful author who encouraged Americans of faith to exercise their democratic freedoms and put their values into practice. His legacy of grace and personal humility will continue to influence hearts and lives.

Laura and I pray for Anne, his wife of over 50 years, and the rest of the Kennedy family. --George W. Bush
posted by Skorgu at 7:35 AM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]


There's an aphorism of Nietzsche's that's apt -- something to the effect that the greater tragedy is that some people (such as himself and, I might say, Darwin) "live too long": They live long enough to either become charicatures of themselves, or see their work mangled and mis-used.

I was told a story once by one of my anthropology profs. Lewis Henry Morgan, who was similarly ill-used by eugenecists, travelled to England on business and arranged by post to meet with Darwin, of whom he was a great admirer. Coming up to the meeting, though, he grew apprehensive, because some of his own major works (Systems of Relation Consanguinity in the Human Family and Ancient Society) had come to be commonly cited by eugenecists. He knew how little Darwin thought of the eugenecists, and feared he'd be lumped in with them.

He needn't have. Darwin was much more interested in Morgan's The American Beaver and His Works.

Point being, what use people made of it says little if anything about what Darwin would have had them make. Any innovation any of us might make is likely to have some ill product. We can only hope that the benefits to mankind outweigh the detriments.
posted by lodurr at 10:14 AM on September 11, 2007


I can't remember where I read this, but someone had suggested that the historical climate around the time of things like Darwin's theory means that even had Darwin not bothered, that someone else would have likely come along and espoused the same ideas, either around the same time or at a later date.

If I remember correctly, Darwin held off on publishing Origin of Species for quite some time after it was finished, because he had some qualms about how it would be received. Darwin only went ahead when another scientist he was corresponding with mentioned an intent to publish a similar work, with a similar theory.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:28 AM on September 11, 2007


so_: "I can't remember where I read this, but someone had suggested that the historical climate around the time of things like Darwin's theory means that even had Darwin not bothered, that someone else would have likely come along and espoused the same ideas, either around the same time or at a later date."

Not only were many scientists already thinking about evolution, but Russel Wallace was preparing to publish the same theory at the same time that Darwin was returning from the HMS Beagle voyage where he collected all of his data. He actually was in a race to publish, not holding off due to fear of its reception.
posted by team lowkey at 11:21 AM on September 11, 2007


...at the same time that Darwin was returning from the HMS Beagle voyage...

23-year nitfilter: The Beagle came home in 1836. Origin was published in 1859.
posted by lodurr at 12:28 PM on September 11, 2007


Can we start the bonfire now?
posted by Reggie Digest at 1:07 PM on September 11, 2007


Ann Coulter is stunned. How is it, she asks, that she could go through 12 years of public school, then college and law school, and still not know that it was Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution that fueled Hitler’s ovens.

Allllllrighty then. That's enough to convince me.
posted by ArkhanJG at 1:48 PM on September 11, 2007


I'm sure she was just faint from hunger and couldn't concentrate. And I've read that malnutrition can decrease your IQ, so there's that.
posted by lodurr at 1:51 PM on September 11, 2007


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