Mama Warbucks
October 24, 2007 7:30 AM Subscribe
It's no secret: War is big business. "The Iraq war costs $720 million per day, $500,000 per minute – enough to provide homes for nearly 6,500 families, or health care for 423,529 children in just one day." Hillary Clinton certainly knows it. Her own senate web page boasts of the millions of defense dollars she's bringing into the New York economy. And from January 2000 to May 2004, she was the recipient of the most expensive congressional trip funded by the defense industry. Eisenhower tried to warn us, but apparently not even the bespoke Democratic front-runner took those warnings to heart.
This post was deleted for the following reason: this is an axegrindy HC post. I know it's election time and all, but it's too early for "your favorite candidate sucks" posts and if you have issues with the way other political posts have been handled, it would be better to take those to Metatalk or your own blog. -- jessamyn
The problem is that most people took Eisenhower's speech not as a warning but, rather, as a roadmap.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 7:38 AM on October 24, 2007 [4 favorites]
America: Love it or leave it.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:39 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:39 AM on October 24, 2007
Made to whose measure, exactly?
Her campaign strategist's.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:40 AM on October 24, 2007
Her campaign strategist's.
posted by saulgoodman at 7:40 AM on October 24, 2007
There are a lot of other distorting effects of the U.S. Defense industry, namely, freaking out other countries.
Look at the missile defense shield, for example. The only real reason for it to exist is to make billions for the defense industry. But it freaks other countries out, by making them worry that they are going to lose their deterrent effect, making it more likely that U.S. might nuke them. So they'll try to figure out ways to get their missiles through our "shields" (which don't even work, anyway)
posted by delmoi at 7:42 AM on October 24, 2007
Look at the missile defense shield, for example. The only real reason for it to exist is to make billions for the defense industry. But it freaks other countries out, by making them worry that they are going to lose their deterrent effect, making it more likely that U.S. might nuke them. So they'll try to figure out ways to get their missiles through our "shields" (which don't even work, anyway)
posted by delmoi at 7:42 AM on October 24, 2007
What really drives me nuts is the dems don't seem to know how to frame the issue and put it back on the republicons.... how about:
"Want to know the cost of the SCHIP bill? A week and a day of the war in Iraq.
Lets vote for ending the war a week and day earlier - and pay for SCHIP. A week and a day people... let's get on board - end the war and start spending money to help kids, not kill them."
posted by specialk420 at 7:46 AM on October 24, 2007 [16 favorites]
"Want to know the cost of the SCHIP bill? A week and a day of the war in Iraq.
Lets vote for ending the war a week and day earlier - and pay for SCHIP. A week and a day people... let's get on board - end the war and start spending money to help kids, not kill them."
posted by specialk420 at 7:46 AM on October 24, 2007 [16 favorites]
I've seen a bunch of bumper stickers, and on one parade day in my town an actual CAR, with a pie chart of the budget and the DOD (one presumes--there weren't any discernible labels on the smaller ones) takes up like half of it. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
posted by DU at 8:06 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by DU at 8:06 AM on October 24, 2007
Really specialk?
Said Pete Stark (D-CA):
“The Republicans are worried that they can’t pay for insuring an additional 10 million children. They sure don’t care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq. Where are you going to get that money? Are you going to tell us lies like you’re telling us today? Is that how you’re going to fund the war? You don’t have money to fund the war on children, but you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people? If he can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement.”
Now Stark is apologizing.
Framing doesn't mean shit as long as people's stock portfolios are doing well.
posted by kableh at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2007
Said Pete Stark (D-CA):
“The Republicans are worried that they can’t pay for insuring an additional 10 million children. They sure don’t care about finding $200 billion to fight the illegal war in Iraq. Where are you going to get that money? Are you going to tell us lies like you’re telling us today? Is that how you’re going to fund the war? You don’t have money to fund the war on children, but you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people? If he can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement.”
Now Stark is apologizing.
Framing doesn't mean shit as long as people's stock portfolios are doing well.
posted by kableh at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2007
Is the hatin' on Hilary (who I also hate on, so no harm there) supposed to imply that Obama or Edwards would severely curtail the mil-ind complex somehow? Because they won't even get out of Iraq, so I'm not seeing it.
posted by DU at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by DU at 8:07 AM on October 24, 2007
We can't get out of Iraq right now. Our leg is in a bear trap. If we pull too hard it might rip off completely. We need to spend some long painful time slowly opening it up and then remove our injured leg. The best thing would have been to never step in it to begin with. But commander in chimp made damn sure we ran straight into somewhere, where we should never had gone to begin with. Now we are stuck. On a side note, I predict that when the white houses goes democratic in 08 look for the republicans to blame the whole war on the dems. Lord whatever happened to leaders that actually care about the people?
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:18 AM on October 24, 2007
If "true to form" gets a thread about Israeli cluster bombing deleted I am pretty sure "made to measure" means this thread will vanish shortly. You need to maintain balance in your anti-war posts. Don't forget the good side of war!
posted by srboisvert at 8:19 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by srboisvert at 8:19 AM on October 24, 2007
I predict that when the white houses goes democratic in 08 look for the republicans to blame the whole war on the dems.
Meanwhile the Ds will no doubt take to explaining, as you did earlier in your comment, why it is vitally important we keep throwing money and lives down the drain. And somehow even though the shoe has switched to the other foot, there STILL won't be a majority in Congress to end the nonsense.
posted by DU at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2007
Meanwhile the Ds will no doubt take to explaining, as you did earlier in your comment, why it is vitally important we keep throwing money and lives down the drain. And somehow even though the shoe has switched to the other foot, there STILL won't be a majority in Congress to end the nonsense.
posted by DU at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2007
America: Love it or leave it.
I thought about it, but US foreign policy isn't looking so hot.
posted by sephira at 8:37 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
I thought about it, but US foreign policy isn't looking so hot.
posted by sephira at 8:37 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is tinfoil hat stuff to be sure, but is anyone else thinking that Hillary's voiced policies on the war are part of some Faustian bargain she made with high-ranking members of the VRC ("vast right wing conspiracy") in order to keep the dogs at bay for the duration of the election?
Or, is the right holding its collective tongue on Hillary in a hope the she gets the nod and will then unleash hell as soon as that happens?
posted by psmealey at 8:39 AM on October 24, 2007
Or, is the right holding its collective tongue on Hillary in a hope the she gets the nod and will then unleash hell as soon as that happens?
posted by psmealey at 8:39 AM on October 24, 2007
Gee, this post couldn't be in any way related to your anger over the Kucinich post, could it saulgoodman? The only current link in your post is the Nation blog entry, which makes no mention of Clinton. You then use that as a springboard to cite a bunch of old, relatively benign links to imply that Clinton is just a tool of the military industrial complex. As support for your premise, your facts are weak.
For what it's worth, I happen to think Clinton's just an opportunist -- not a tool of anyone but her own ambition. But this is a bad post, and I hate to see the MeFi front page turn into little more than a depository for user-created hit pieces (and before you point out the Kucinich post, it's pretty clear the post had human interest value beyond it's political impact).
posted by pardonyou? at 8:40 AM on October 24, 2007
For what it's worth, I happen to think Clinton's just an opportunist -- not a tool of anyone but her own ambition. But this is a bad post, and I hate to see the MeFi front page turn into little more than a depository for user-created hit pieces (and before you point out the Kucinich post, it's pretty clear the post had human interest value beyond it's political impact).
posted by pardonyou? at 8:40 AM on October 24, 2007
In related news -- Cost Of U.S. Contractors In Iraq Has Soared To $4 Billion A Year.
posted by ericb at 8:58 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by ericb at 8:58 AM on October 24, 2007
health care for 423,529 children
those 423,529 kids then grow into adults who produce another 1,863,527 kids. killing is more ecologically sound. war is green, dude.
posted by quonsar at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
those 423,529 kids then grow into adults who produce another 1,863,527 kids. killing is more ecologically sound. war is green, dude.
posted by quonsar at 9:03 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
Or, is the right holding its collective tongue on Hillary in a hope the she gets the nod and will then unleash hell as soon as that happens?
I've heard no evidence of tongue holding. Giuliani and Romney do nothing but stir up fear of an HRC presidency.
But, yeah, it'll get much worse.
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2007
I've heard no evidence of tongue holding. Giuliani and Romney do nothing but stir up fear of an HRC presidency.
But, yeah, it'll get much worse.
posted by hackly_fracture at 9:07 AM on October 24, 2007
pardonyou? what--round-ups are now verboten? with the exception of the eisenhower speech, none of the material has been posted here before. otherwise, i'm not going to moderate/manage my own fpp, pardonyou?, so please feel free to either discuss the topic or not.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:12 AM on October 24, 2007
posted by saulgoodman at 9:12 AM on October 24, 2007
Hillary wasn't strong enough to vote against the Iraq war, and in fact got behind the war even more than most of the spineless Dems in the Senate (Feingold, certainly, removed). I can't vote for someone who did that. Her stock statement now on this is "If I'd known then what I know now." Hell, I knew it then. Shouldn't I expect her to be at least on par with me?
Whether Obama would help make real change in the military-industrial complex, who knows. But at least he doesn't have a track record of already doing it. See also: Obama's Iraq Speech, given Oct 2002
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2007
Whether Obama would help make real change in the military-industrial complex, who knows. But at least he doesn't have a track record of already doing it. See also: Obama's Iraq Speech, given Oct 2002
posted by mcstayinskool at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2007
war is green, dude.
It'd be greener if we did all our killing with pointed sticks and rocks. See me in a year as CEO of Pointed Sticks and Rocks Systems, we'll have a billion dollar contract, I promise.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
It'd be greener if we did all our killing with pointed sticks and rocks. See me in a year as CEO of Pointed Sticks and Rocks Systems, we'll have a billion dollar contract, I promise.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
« Older Hey Jerry, would you like a piece of cheese? | In the future, everybody will be wrong for 15... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Made to whose measure, exactly?
posted by fefofifum at 7:37 AM on October 24, 2007 [3 favorites]