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Ya'll n----- gonna make me leave the game. I thought ya'll loved me
February 2, 2008 9:48 PM   Subscribe

Ghostface Killah begs his fans to buy his new album. He figures that if he has 100,000 myspace friends then he should have at least 30,000 early sales. He doesnt and tells downloaders that they should "cop" the CD at the store even if they've downloaded it.
posted by damn dirty ape (97 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
Whatever whatever whatever.
posted by 1 at 10:01 PM on February 2, 2008 [2 favorites]


Pepsi MySpace Killa Begging!
posted by ericb at 10:02 PM on February 2, 2008


Who?
posted by loquacious at 10:03 PM on February 2, 2008


apparently, Ghostface isn't understanding of synergy. He also seems to have a lot of points on his albums, which accounts for his begging. I wonder how much of a cut he gets from gigs, because he does all these collaborations it probably really cuts into his bottom line. Also, what's on his walls? and, who has a wood-lined office anymore? and wearing kangol? I bet he's at his mom's a lot these days.
posted by parmanparman at 10:05 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Damn. Fuck. My typo. Sorry ... Killah. You go, man.
posted by ericb at 10:06 PM on February 2, 2008


Theres a lot to love in this video but the guy in the background just sitting there texting for 4 or 5 minutes really adds to it. He's just sitting there while ghostface more or less is pouring his heart out to his fans, begging, and he's just texting without ever looking up.
posted by damn dirty ape at 10:09 PM on February 2, 2008 [3 favorites]


I know that Killah's got a fancy PhD in Economics and I'm just some clown on the internet, but if friends on myspace were really worth 33 cents each, wouldn't a lot of underdressed, foul-mouthed 14 year old girls be multimillionaires by now?
posted by rokusan at 10:09 PM on February 2, 2008 [9 favorites]


"We spend a lot of time in the studio, and puttin' this work in..."

'Cause drinking rosé and ripping bongloads is hard work. The music industry as we knew it is dead. We do love you Ghostface but if you want to make music, you've got to do it because you love to make music, not to turn a profit.
posted by Demogorgon at 10:09 PM on February 2, 2008


Hey, cribbing samples from the works of other musicians, is sorta like a job...
posted by damn dirty ape at 10:10 PM on February 2, 2008


No, mate, I do not 'know what you mean'.
posted by pompomtom at 10:24 PM on February 2, 2008 [3 favorites]


"The music industry as we knew it is dead. We do love you Ghostface but if you want to make music, you've got to do it because you love to make music, not to turn a profit."

Yeah man, I mean, how selfish, and how base. Shit, just look around, the dentists are pulling teeth for nothing these days, and it's cause they love it! They're not just money grubbers out to make a profit (ewww, even saying the word makes me feel dirty). And the plumber who comes to fix your sink? He does it cause he loves it! That's the only justifiable reason, after all! And how do they pay their rent? Hell, who cares? They just gotta get with the program, man: the dentistry and plumbing industries are dead.

And hey, whatever it is you do in life, Demogorgon, I'm sure you do it all for love, right? Yeah, brother, right on!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:24 PM on February 2, 2008 [38 favorites]


He is wrong about this and needs to revise his understanding of how the music business now works, but:

Demogorgon: Ghostface Killah is really hardworking, unlike a lot of rappers. He's incredibly prolific and is always either touring or recording.

damn dirty ape: Ghost usually doesn't find, edit, combine, and arrange samples himself, but yes, that is a job. Why don't you try putting together some beats for a song? It's a lot more work than you think. DJs and producers spend an inordinate amount of time and effort not only maintaining an extensive library of samples in either vinyl or digitally, but there's also a lot of thought that goes into recontextualizing them in a meaningful. Yes, sometimes someone like Puffy will just rip off one popular riff and cycle it through the entire song, but there's always going to be someone dragging down any art form.

Look at the work of Dr. Dre, the Bomb Squad, or DJ Premier. It's a lot of work, and it is a job.
posted by ignignokt at 10:25 PM on February 2, 2008 [7 favorites]


What's a bongload, Demogorgon? Sounds unsanitary.
posted by inoculatedcities at 10:26 PM on February 2, 2008


In light of the recent racism discussions, I'd really like to mention Mr. Killah's invitation for his fans to have a Pow-wow with him.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:28 PM on February 2, 2008


Honestly, I don't care why Ghostface does it (profit, love of his art, whatever). He makes great music. I would love for him to do it for as long as possible. Especially if they are going to be as good as his last couple of albums have been.

And while this may be begging, he is also giving value added for each purchase. He is promising to hang out with everyone who buys his albums. That's pretty big. In this current world where artists are trying to find an angle that makes their art profitable, Ghostface has chosen a less practical but very attractive angle. I'd love to hang out with him and see what the guy behind those albums is like.
posted by aburd at 10:29 PM on February 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


Also, damn dirty ape, do you really think that sampling and art are mutually exclusive? How quaint.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:36 PM on February 2, 2008


I like his collection of Franklin Mint plates!
posted by dobbs at 10:37 PM on February 2, 2008 [2 favorites]


Watching this video of him in his studio really made me think of the beginning of his song "Biscuits", where he berates his posse:

"Yo... who the fuck brought me this chocolate shit, man? I said a banana nutriment, man. Ya'll heard the fuck I said... I gave you. I wrote it on the fuckin' paper, man. Ya'll mothafuckas always fuck around and forgettin' something and shit. Smart dumb niggas and shit, runnin' around here and shit."

I for one plan to buy his albums. The man needs his banana nutriment.
posted by naju at 10:45 PM on February 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


I don't wish to get involved in the artistry vs. commercialism argument. Hell, I don't even listen to this kind of music.

I just think that Ghostface Killah is the coolest name ever. All his GhostfaceBook buddies should fork over on that basis alone.
posted by bigskyguy at 10:47 PM on February 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


Why don't you try putting together some beats for a song? It's a lot more work than you think.

Oh step the fuck off it. I was obviously being facetious. Cleary anything that expends energy and can cause stress can be defined as labor. Obviously, the kinds of money and labor he deals in is heaven compared to the money and labor I and everyone I know deal in.

Secondly, he utterly fails at understanding the internets. Myspace friends are meaningless. Why they should translate into album sales is beyond me and shows a lack of basic understanding of the industry. Berating innocent people (err, we arent all downloading his music) is pathetic and greedy. Perhaps, a more reasonable solution here is that he's just not as popular as he used to be.

Lastly, begging is pathetic. Especially with somoene with his kind of money. He should accept that he's not the brand he once was post-Wu-Tang.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:00 PM on February 2, 2008


The last two Wu shows here in New York during mid-January were very successful. The Wu Tang aren't losing any fans, in fact they may be gaining new ones with the current album and reunion tours.
posted by cazoo at 11:07 PM on February 2, 2008


So how long until we have a youtube version of the Jerry Lewis Telethon, but for impoverished musicians? For less the the price of a cup of coffee a day, you too can help a n**** lay out some dope beats.
posted by furtive at 11:19 PM on February 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


'Cause drinking rosé and ripping bongloads is hard work. The music industry as we knew it is dead.

Jesus. What fairy tale bullshit utopia are you talking about? The one where everyone in Motown or Tin Pan Alley drank apple juice and smoked bubblegum cigarettes? Drugs and money have always been a part of the music industry. But I'll refrain from saying anything else, lest every white person afraid of hip-hop feel the need to pile on with trite comments on how rap music is ruining everything.
posted by PostIronyIsNotaMyth at 11:38 PM on February 2, 2008 [3 favorites]


dda,

The money thing is hype -- necessary hype, I mean, don't you want your heroes to be rich? But yeah, I wouldn't expect him to be particularly well off.
posted by effugas at 11:38 PM on February 2, 2008


I'm sorry... did Burger King buy him a you tube channel or something?

You know: any way he wants it
any way he needs it?
posted by sourwookie at 11:50 PM on February 2, 2008


115,000 friends on myspace and he can't understand why he can't pay for the samples?

Exhibit A: Fear Of A Black Planet
Exhibit B: Paul's Boutique

Did he miss 1988 or something?
posted by sourwookie at 12:03 AM on February 3, 2008


I was planning on buying his album any-damn-way. I hate it has to be Ghostface begging and not some bullshit like Soulja Boy or something.
posted by Cyclopsis Raptor at 12:13 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


I bought all his albums but didn't friend him on myspace, and the truth is he's putting out a lot better albums than 90% of the competition in the rap game right now, but he's putting out too many of them too quickly. He's gotta give people at least a little time to start missing him. There is such thing as too much of a good thing, even when you're on top of your game.

Raekwon, on the other hand, needs to hurry the hell up with Cuban Linx 2.
posted by moift at 1:42 AM on February 3, 2008


You hafta' clear dem' samples.
posted by sharksandwich at 2:37 AM on February 3, 2008


At the 2:11 point in the video, he says that fans who bring the CD to a concert can chill with him and "get goosed out, whatever y'all want to do."

What does "get goosed out" mean?
posted by Gordion Knott at 3:32 AM on February 3, 2008


grey goose. vodka isn't it? He means shitfaced I gather.
posted by dabitch at 4:56 AM on February 3, 2008


I fill ya.
posted by katillathehun at 6:05 AM on February 3, 2008


I know that Killah's got a fancy PhD in Economics and I'm just some clown on the internet, but if friends on myspace were really worth 33 cents each, wouldn't a lot of underdressed, foul-mouthed 14 year old girls be multimillionaires by now?

On a relevant point, offline friends are generally really worth [value of your drink], at least.
posted by ersatz at 6:11 AM on February 3, 2008


So really it's "if you buy my CD, I'll be your best friend," in so many words.

I can see myself using that strategy, to be honest.
posted by danb at 6:36 AM on February 3, 2008


well, ghostface, you have to make it a little more woo-hoo, you know what i mean? - you ain't pushin' the button, you know what i mean? - britney's fans, man, they're falling all over themselves paying for her ambulance ride, you know what i mean? - and here you are worried about whether you're going to have to take the night train, you know what i mean? - it's got to have that buy me thing, you know what i mean? - you don't like put it out on some you tube corner and beg and shit and expect people to want it, you know what i mean? - like maybe you could get arrested for slapping some downloading kid, you know what i mean? - get all up in his face for it, you know what i mean? - or, hmmm, ask britney out, she's kind of impaired thinking, you know what i mean? - even if she says no, if you can get her to do it in public, that's 100,000 units right there, you know what i mean? - especially if she slaps you and they take a picture of it, you know what i mean?

nothing lasts forever killah, you know what i mean?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:42 AM on February 3, 2008


I like Ghostface's new disk, saw the Wu in Tempe, pretty friggin' awesome. (I HIGHLY recommend seeing the Wu-Tang clan if they roll into your town... totally entertaining.) I do think it's a little ironic that he raps largely about crime, but gets all upset when people pirate his album.

What about all the internet gangstas?
posted by ph00dz at 6:49 AM on February 3, 2008


Guys, I would like to sell my album when it's finished. and I SWEAR we'll all go hang out. Sorta reminds me of the Mr. Show skit about the guy who comes and hangs out with you if you call him.

As a fellow musician, I know it's hard to get people to buy stuff you make. Hell, I released my first three albums on the internet with just Creative Commons, just for publicity. I also know my stuff will never be as popular as Mr. Killah's, but maybe he has to realize that not all of us can live like rock/hip-hop stars. I understand the seduction of such a lifestyle, but maybe he has to, sorry about the pun, face the music.
posted by Chocomog at 7:15 AM on February 3, 2008


So... If I buy the disc, I can use it as a backspace pass and get fucked up with the Wu?

Well fuck! There we go, if that ain't reason enough, what is?
posted by symbioid at 7:22 AM on February 3, 2008


Also, I'd like to point out that maybe instead of blaming the fans, he could use this as an opportunity to fuck some shit up with the record labels, strike out on his own, etc...

They talk all the shit about being business-men, well then, son, move along and get going onto the next level!

Know what I'm saying?
posted by symbioid at 7:24 AM on February 3, 2008


Having one record company lawyer ring up another in a different company and say 'right we want this, this and this sample and you can have this, this and this one of ours' ' That'll be fine'... well all those of hours of work has to paid for, you know what I'm saying?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:30 AM on February 3, 2008


Yeah man, I mean, how selfish, and how base. Shit, just look around, the dentists are pulling teeth for nothing these days, and it's cause they love it! They're not just money grubbers out to make a profit (ewww, even saying the word makes me feel dirty). And the plumber who comes to fix your sink? He does it cause he loves it! That's the only justifiable reason, after all! And how do they pay their rent? Hell, who cares? They just gotta get with the program, man: the dentistry and plumbing industries are dead.

And hey, whatever it is you do in life, Demogorgon, I'm sure you do it all for love, right? Yeah, brother, right on!


The reason this argument is specious is because if you stopped paying both dentists and musicians, very very few people would continue pulling teeth for free, because they love it. On the other hand, there would not suddenly be a lack of music. There might be a shortage of crap music, but definitely not a shortage of good, actual music made because it's right.
posted by odinsdream at 7:50 AM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]


oh right, this is the thread where we all talk about how easy it is to make hip hop music.


sometimes it feels like if the Blue were any more White it would be Clear. mostly just in the hip hop threads I suppose.
posted by lazaruslong at 7:54 AM on February 3, 2008 [8 favorites]


Also, what's on his walls?

parmanparman - Those are signed drum heads.
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:08 AM on February 3, 2008


And hey, whatever it is you do in life, Demogorgon, I'm sure you do it all for love, right? Yeah, brother, right on!

I will cut you flapjax...

I think you're missing my point. The way dentistry and plumbing work means that you can't pirate your pipes and tooth-cleanings on the internet. Music can be pirated, and I don't think that's going to change. People who thought they were going to be able to make a living out of music are going to have to think about that.

Ghostface Killah is really hardworking, unlike a lot of rappers. He's incredibly prolific and is always either touring or recording.

Okay, I apologize for underrating the amount of work it takes to put out an album, but isn't sitting in a studio complaining about not getting better sales kind of posh?
posted by Demogorgon at 8:10 AM on February 3, 2008


LazarusLong: "if the Blue were any more White it would be Clear"

If memory serves, the Lazarus Long in the stories was whiter than Snoopy. So this is the pot calling the kettle... uhm, you get the idea.

I fully understand that I have no right to maintain I understand the complexities of hip hop and rap and how difficult it is. I am not questioning that. Do music artists of any genre deserve to be paid for what they offer? Absolutely.

Every single damned time an mp3 gets downloaded and played? God forbid. No way.

I do believe I can honestly say I have never downloaded a Ghostface mp3. In fact I doubtful wouldn't recognize a Ghostface joint if it stuck a piece up in my face gangsta style. So I have never 'stolen' from this man. I have never 'felt' him.

This wholesome rambling from Ghostface does not encourage me to start. This tells me to stay away. From now on, when I see the word Ghostface, I'll be turning a deaf ear.

Now all the sudden, I don't want to give him the opportunity of impressing me. And this is the crux of the matter. His job is not to beg me to buy his shit. His job is to make me want to make that choice myself. His job is to put the mp3 out there and if I like it, I will go buy his shit. If I don't I won't, so his fans response to what he's put down should tell him volumes about his product. It's not what they want to buy. He needs to go back to the lab and make something they will buy. Something they can't get from up the street.

This video is my first exposure to this gentleman, and all I see is a playa who picked the wrong side. A whiner who expects the game to never change unless he gives the okay. Maybe that works on the streets, but I somehow doubt it. His humility and sincerity seem hollow. Maybe I'm immune to his charms cuz I'm not a fan.

I believe he is trying to play me.

As I understand it, and I'm white as the driven snow so I could be completely wrong here, but on the streets the rule of thumb is you give them a taste and if they become addicted you reel them in. If they don't, you move on to the next one. OR you give them lead poisoning, but that might adversely affect repeat business. So it's best to let your customers decide for themselves if they become junkies to your power, rather than to make that decision for them.

I do not want him all up in my crib. I do not want to buy his CD. I do not want green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I Am.

He's no playa to MY game. He don't get the rules. Mp3 is MY turf. Ghostface be a lost soul in this alley. I don't feel him. I smell him. He smells off, and the nose don't lie.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:33 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


I think it would be fun to organize busloads of unexpected people to show up at Ghostface Killah concerts each with copies of his CD, to go backstage and get goosed with him.

For example, load up the van at the local retirement home, or nunnery. Well, you probably couldn't get enough actual nuns, but I bet you could get enough people who were willing to pretend to be nuns.
posted by Flunkie at 8:39 AM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]


The reason this argument is specious is because if you stopped paying both dentists and musicians, very very few people would continue pulling teeth for free, because they love it.
Steve Martin disagrees.
posted by Flunkie at 8:42 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


I do think it's a little ironic that he raps largely about crime, but gets all upset when people pirate his album.

If you watch the video at around 0:45 you see he's conflicted about that, too:

Y'all'd rather download our shit - which is all - y'know - which is cool, whateverwhateverwhatever, but it's like c'mon man...
posted by mediareport at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2008


mediareport, when I heard that part, I honestly didn't hear "conflicted", I heard "shit, what did I just say, I gotta pander quick!"

He's smooth throughout the entire video, except at that point, where he suddenly comes across as panicky.
posted by Flunkie at 8:54 AM on February 3, 2008


I feel for Ghostface Killah in terms of his rhetoric, though I imagine he's financially much better off than me (and probably not very interested in paying for my services as an interpreter of culture, whateverwhateverwhatever, which is fine because much of my product is free {you get what you pay for}).

However, it does seem like he's stuck on *physical* product as a guarantee of payment, jewel case and CD inserts as currency/authenticating documents.

But what about someone who purchases _8 Diagrams_ using a digital music service like Amazon's or Apple's? Can I get backstage if I show him my .m4ps?
posted by mistersquid at 8:55 AM on February 3, 2008


Whatever tapes raps, face in the back
looking at the myspace regulation jacks
downloadin next generation hot liquids
fatty with the beats dialogue with the lipids


Oh sorry, I left my U-Godamatic Firefox extension enabled.
posted by cashman at 9:00 AM on February 3, 2008 [5 favorites]


So ZachsMind is never going to listen to Ghostface based on this video, what a loss for everyone involved.

I paid to download the new Ghost album, it's not nearly as good as fishscale, but Ghostface is still the best thing going in "mainstream" rap, to my mind.

Mistersquid:

mp4's get you a phone call or a long heartfelt personal email.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:09 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


MisterSquid: "However, it does seem like he's stuck on *physical* product as a guarantee of payment, jewel case and CD inserts as currency/authenticating documents."

Exactly! He's still thinking old school. What about those who legitimately purchase his music over the Web, but didn't download it off his myspace page? What about the jokesters who go to his gigs and wave bootlegged copies with CD inserts that look legitimate if you don't look too close, but were made off a deskjet? The rules have changed. He needs to get with the program or he'll get left behind.

Divine_Wino: "So ZachsMind is never going to listen to Ghostface based on this video, what a loss for everyone involved."

I know you were being facetious, but that's my point exactly! There's no loss!

There's no money changing hands here. There wasn't before I heard there was a Ghostface and there's not now. My choosing not to listen to Ghostface simply closes one door on his face. He wasn't making money off me anyway. This youtube video was his opportunity to impress me, and he failed.

He's talking about the people who have downloaded his music and then not paid him. BUT MONEY HAS STILL NOT CHANGED HANDS. He's losing nothing. No one is robbing him. Ghostface, and the music industry in general, believes that every time an mp3 gets downloaded and played, they are owed something, and they are SO not. There is no theft, because no money is changing hands.

When people download and listen to his music, that's his opportunity to impress them. If they wanted to support what he's doing, they'd belly up to the bar and lay down some plastic. They don't, so he gets nothing. No money has changed hands. He's out nothing.

However, he has this illusion in his mind that he is owed something. He is not. There is no correlation between millions of DLs and zero bling. If Ghostface can't get people to buy his shit, he needs to make shit that his audience will buy. Maybe it's that he hears his audience but he's not listening to them.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:32 AM on February 3, 2008


This youtube video was his opportunity to impress me, and he failed.

Bum Bum Bummmmmmm. I'm just teasing you here Zach, but I kind of don't think the youtube video was aimed at you. It's like you're saying that visit to the pet store was the one chance that hamster had to teach you how to play the flute AND HE FAILED! Lot's of I/Me messages.

If Ghostface can't get people to buy his shit, he needs to make shit that his audience will buy.

No, he needs to figure out another way to make money from his music, because broadband internet has fundamentally altered the record industries recording model. I hope he does, because he's a lot of the reason that commercial rap music doesn't totally suck these days.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:52 AM on February 3, 2008


recording model

business model, sorry.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:52 AM on February 3, 2008


Divine_Wino finally gets to the crux of the problem: Big Doe Rehab, while pretty good by itself, pales in comparison to Fishscale. That's probably why it's not selling as well as Ghost would like. Fishscale raised our expectations to an unreachable level.
posted by Rangeboy at 9:55 AM on February 3, 2008


>No, he needs to figure out another way to make money from his music, because broadband internet has fundamentally altered the record industries recording model.

Yeah, but nobody really seems to have a clue at the moment...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:06 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


Here's why I won't be going to the store to buy Ghostface Killah's or Wu Tang's latest album, and it has nothing to do with me being white, or his rather pathetic entreaties.

In my town, the only record stores that are left are used record stores, and while I have patronized them for 20 years now, there aren't any "New Release" sections, no in store promotions, no artist appearances (unless you count Fred Thomas of Saturday Looks Good To Me working behind the counter).

I used to enjoy going to Schoolkids Records, hell, even enjoyed going to Tower, hanging out, listening to what they were playing in store, talking to some of the more knowledgeable employees. Even Borders, for awhile, had a decent enough selection to keep my interest.

No more. They're all gone or mere shadows, and I'm not really lamenting the "good old days" or whatever, whatever, whatever. I just don't feel any incentive whatsoever to go to any record store. With digital product, the distribution method has changed. And if the music-distribution companies cannot figure out a method to "incentivize" me (I heard that word used seriously by businessmen and I couldn't wait to use it--although I've waited probably 5 years now) then I guess I won't be buying their new product.

But I do pay for my downloaded music, and my provider of choice offers me a subscription where I pick 90 tracks per month for about $20. Just over the cost of a new cd at Borders, iirc. There's no physical product manufacture involved, no printing, shipping, warehousing, no unsold copies gathering dust, no defective product. Yes, there's infrastructure cost and promotion--and I am entirely unmoved by GK's rhetorical appeal (though I do like Wu Tang; my WuName is Ungrateful Ninja, as I assume many others share, but still I wear it proudly).

So, Ghostface, if I may be so informal, put your product up on eMusic, stream it at Last.fm, and I'll hear it & buy it, and instead of accommodating me with Grey Goose at your next show at the Blind Pig, how 'bout you stop up at my crib & we'll knock back Glenfiddich.
posted by beelzbubba at 10:10 AM on February 3, 2008


Ghostface,

I bought bullet proof wallets when it came out. The day it came out! That shit didn't even go aluminum. And what's more, it was awful. I have nothing to feel bad about.

Go back to making kickass, cutting edge albums like Supreme Clientele, Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, and Ironman and we'll buy your shit. Keep remaking the same mediocre album for 6 years and we won't, mmkay? It's up to you.

Frankly, GFK, you need to start dusting, drinking and working with the rza again. I know, I know, I shouldn't encourage you to go back on drugs and alcohol and work with the guy who's been bogarting your cheddah, but your lyrics were hotter then and rza could actually master your voice so it didn't sound so fricking screeching all the time. Can you do that for us?

Kthxbye.
posted by milarepa at 10:22 AM on February 3, 2008


I don't feel ya, G.
posted by sidereal at 10:32 AM on February 3, 2008


SCOOBY SNACK JURASSIC PLASTIC GAS BOOBY TRAP
posted by generalist at 10:46 AM on February 3, 2008


I got the disc for Christmas, which is almost like buying it. I'd say that just buying the song "Walk Around" and leaving the rest would be the best move. It's no Fishscale.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:55 AM on February 3, 2008


oh right, this is the thread where we all talk about how easy it is to make hip hop music.

It has nothing to do with hip hop. The condenscension and mockery comes from an artist begging people to buy his work. Hit the magic CRTL-Z button, Ghostface!!!!

His job is not to beg me to buy his shit.

Ditto. Beg all you want, but I only watched the first 30 seconds. Epic fail.

I'm not sure how much money GK made from Wu-Tang and his solo career so far, but my guess is that (with a modest lifestyle and good planning) he never has to work another day in his life.

So yeah, the begging is a little unseemly. If he's in dire financial straits, I missed that part.

Also, I'm [generic social network] friends with all sorts of musical acts. I certainly don't buy all their albums. I tape music off the FM radio.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:06 AM on February 3, 2008


"every white person afraid of hip-hop"

Yup, that's me. I'm afraid of tuneless bullshit.
posted by newfers at 11:21 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


Is this something one would need to be fluent in ebonics to understand?
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:25 AM on February 3, 2008


This is hilarious. I can't believe he did this.

I wish the commenting were enabled.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:28 AM on February 3, 2008


tuneless bullshit
fluent in ebonics


FAIL
posted by generalist at 11:29 AM on February 3, 2008 [9 favorites]


So this is the pot calling the kettle...

A hick-ass cracker. Yes.
posted by louche mustachio at 11:30 AM on February 3, 2008


.
posted by the_very_hungry_caterpillar at 11:39 AM on February 3, 2008


this thread highlights metafilters disconnection
posted by Addiction at 11:55 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


If I have the choice between giving money to a talented hip-hop artist hustling his tapes on the street and barely able to pay his rent and giving money to a talented hip-hop artist who is signed on to a multimillion dollar contract, won't be hurting anytime soon, and feels entitled to MORE money, then I'd pick the former any day of the week. The fact that so many in this thread have bought into the corporate version of hip-hop -- a sad bastardization of an honorable genre, as far as this honky concerns -- as a form of valid and innate streetcred appalls the fuck out of me.

If Ghostface were a Caucasian hipster in Williamsburg, you'd nail the douchebag quite justifiably to the wall like Aleksei Vayner, ensuring that your vitriol would eat away at the man's carcass like the vulture feasting on Prometheus's innards. Instead, you've bought into the idea that NOT treating this entitled fucktard -- who, whatever his talent, is as articulate in this video as some delinquent getting a D minus in his English class -- with some veneration is akin to being a clueless cracker.

No wonder the music industry continues to con gullible people into parting with their money.
posted by ed at 1:08 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


I've never really given rap much of a chance, probably because the 'mainstream' stuff didn't interest me in the slightest. For a few reasons (many posters here seem to have a high opinion for certain kinds of rap, I mostly enjoy the opening music to The Boondocks) I think I'll give this guy a listen or two and see what he has to offer.

Anyway, with respect to the discussion about downloading music without paying for it I have to admit to being torn between wanting to compensate musicians for their efforts while at the same time wanting to punish the recording industry for being a mostly uneccesarry and practically evil force between the music fans and the music makers. I think what makes the situation so annoying is that the recording industry acts more like employers to musicians than the other way around.
posted by Green With You at 1:15 PM on February 3, 2008


I think it's very plausible that GK might not be facing hard times financially. I think people commonly overestimate the profitability (for musicians) of the music business. This book opened my eyes a great deal in this regard.

Agreed with the posters saying that the music business is changing and musicians need to change with the times. This Wired article by David Byrne is rather illuminating.
posted by flotson at 1:53 PM on February 3, 2008


If you don't like hip hop, you're a racist. If you don't like country western, you have good taste.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 2:12 PM on February 3, 2008 [4 favorites]


I thought the general consensus was that musicians should give away their music for free and instead make money on selling t-shirts with their name on.
posted by iviken at 2:27 PM on February 3, 2008


I can't really blame Wu Tang fans. They're paying $50 for concert tickets so both Big Doe Rehab (which is pretty mediocre) and 8 Diagrams are a lot of cash to ask for at once. I'm not surprised that in this case more than others, fans would just download first and end up deciding it isn't worth their money, at least not immediately.
posted by Shakeer at 3:31 PM on February 3, 2008


sometimes it feels like if the Blue were any more White it would be Clear. mostly just in the hip hop threads I suppose.

I hate this bullshit double standard. So white people cant comment on "black" music? So if my black pal tells me that he thinks the new strokes album is shit I can say "clearly, youre too black to comment on this." Funny how bad it looks when you switch around the players.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:04 PM on February 3, 2008


If you don't like hip hop, you're a racist. If you don't like country western, you have good taste.

So, it's just as I've always suspected: I'm a non-racist with bad taste.

Which reminds me, I always wondered why there was never an Eric B and Rakim/Buck Owens collaboration.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:51 PM on February 3, 2008


Shit Sandwich, you feelin me? Know what I sayin'?

OK, back to some real music...
posted by dbiedny at 4:55 PM on February 3, 2008


Ghostface, and the music industry in general, believes that every time an mp3 gets downloaded and played, they are owed something, and they are SO not. There is no theft, because no money is changing hands.

Every time I walk out of the grocery store with a pack of gum sneaked in my pocket, it isn't theft, because no money is changing hands.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:49 PM on February 3, 2008


Hey, cribbing samples from the works of other musicians, is sorta like a job...

Oh step the fuck off it. I was obviously being facetious. Cleary anything that expends energy and can cause stress can be defined as labor. Obviously, the kinds of money and labor he deals in is heaven compared to the money and labor I and everyone I know deal in.

Heh, how incredibly dishonest. You were obviously implying that rap music is bullshit and is easy. You weren't saying, "Oh, at least he's not a coal miner there." Find ten strangers who can read that first comment and say that you mean that "Oh, it can be defined as a job that involves plenty of labor and skill, but there are harder jobs."

And yes, MetaFilter appears to hate rap and think it's not "real music." . I think that those that respect rap have to just accept that the way, the conservatives in this thread have to accept that MetaFilter is naturally liberally biased (which I happen to not mind as much).
posted by ignignokt at 6:35 PM on February 3, 2008


Ghostface, and the music industry in general, believes that every time an mp3 gets downloaded and played, they are owed something, and they are SO not. There is no theft, because no money is changing hands.

This is such a strange comment.

I don't know what exactly Ghostface and the music industry believe, but in many cases, a copyright infringer really does owe something to the copyright holder, despite your protestation to the contrary. Copyright law isn't an RIAA myth.

I agree that downloading an mp3 typically won't be theft, but so what? Copyright infringement is often against the law, independently of whether the infringing act is also a theft. As an aside, as Blazecock Pileon pointed out, taking any property can be theft. The stolen property does not need to be money.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:40 PM on February 3, 2008


FAIL
posted by generalist

Fuckin' showing fuckin' precisely the fuckin' same motha-fuckin' creativity fuckin' yo' all
muthafachas fuckin' thinks ya gots da thing on.

Yo.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 7:58 PM on February 3, 2008


This is like the death of Pimp C thread all over again.
posted by Locative at 9:20 PM on February 3, 2008


Wait! What? Pimp C is dead? Oh well, thank god James Brown is still alive.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 9:28 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fuckin' showing fuckin' precisely the fuckin' same motha-fuckin' creativity fuckin' yo' all
muthafachas fuckin' thinks ya gots da thing on.


Ah, faux ebonics. That's just swell.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:48 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


Fuckin' showing fuckin' precisely the fuckin' same motha-fuckin' creativity fuckin' yo' all
muthafachas fuckin' thinks ya gots da thing on.


Asshole.
The Woman With the Tattooed Hands

I used to know this woman who had the most beautiful
Tattoos on the top sides of both of her hands
She was forty three years old and as far as I know
Had never yet been with a man
Its not that she wasn't attractive she was beatiful
But it's the way that she interacted
She was aggressively passive to the point where she
Would of intimidated any mitt that ever tried to catch her
On the right hand she had a tattoo of a nude girl
She claimed it is what God resembled
But on the left she had a mirrored image of the same female
And this one she explained looked like the devil
I remember once watching her touch her own breasts
How the tattoos smiled as they stared down her stomach
As if anticipating would they be allowed to caress
The sweet flower that they both seemed to hunger (sweet flower)
Now maybe I was high but it felt so right
Heaven and hell both take to this womans womb
It didn't make sense how she could commence
Touching herself with me wide awake in the same room
Now if I've learned anything in my years (my years)
I learned I no longer believe in surprise (in surprise)
But what happened next damn near stole my tears
The tattoos came alive right in front of my eyes
They both slowly stood up and climbed off her hands
And showed me why she never took some time with a man
They climbed deep inside of this woman's garden
She closed her eyes and she gently bit her bottom lip
I stepped I left and I don't regret leaving
And I'll never forget all the things I saw that evening
A glimpse of religion a piece of coming closer
To understanding more about what intrigues me most
I didn't get turned on I just got turned
I wasn't as aroused as I was concerned
For each one of em I've hurt
And every time I've been burned
I've got a lot to teach but even more to learn
So now I keep my eyes open hoping to take in all I can
About Woman taking in all she can
And for as long as I breath i'll save a seat in my memory
For that woman with the tattooed hands

[chorus: repeat 5x till song fades]
There's good and evil in each individual fire
Identifies needs and feeds our desires
As long as we keep our spirit inspired
She can bite her bottom lip all she wants

--Atmosphere
posted by flotson at 10:20 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]


And yes, MetaFilter appears to hate rap and think it's not "real music." I think that those that respect rap have to just accept that...

I disagree, and I'm not a fan of rap, although I can appreciate its artistry. I think it is bigotry to claim rap is not real music, and bigotry should always be challenged. Not necessarily racial bigotry, but certainly cultural. The prejudice is without cause, a disgusting display of privilege.
posted by Danila at 10:21 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]


Want to clarify that I don't think the claims that rap is not real music are necessarily a display of racial bigotry. Not that I think racial bigotry doesn't need to be challenged. Don't know if that even makes more sense.
posted by Danila at 10:23 PM on February 3, 2008


Fuckin' showing fuckin' precisely the fuckin' same motha-fuckin' creativity fuckin' yo' all
muthafachas fuckin' thinks ya gots da thing on.

Yo.


I apologize ParaBoy–your first comment led me to believe you were just another racist asshole shitting in the thread. Your riposte above clearly deserves a more nuanced response:

EPIC FUCKING FAIL YOU FUCKING FUCK
posted by generalist at 10:30 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


The same people who say rap music is not music are the sons and daughters, figuratively if not literally, of the people who said rock n roll was not music and jazz was just noise.
posted by milarepa at 7:32 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]


I just want to get on record early as feeling that this "hyperdelic bilgescrim" the kids of the mid-21st century will be listening to is just complete sonic garbage.

Also, hey, guys? If this is just an eleven hour lull rather than a blessed cessation, could you please chill out, or take it to email?
posted by cortex at 9:39 AM on February 4, 2008


ZachsMind: "This video is my first exposure to this gentleman, and all I see is a playa who picked the wrong side. A whiner who expects the game to never change unless he gives the okay. Maybe that works on the streets, but I somehow doubt it. His humility and sincerity seem hollow."

So, in essence, what you're saying is, Ghostface Killah is a scab?

(I keed, I keed)

I haven't listened to any of his solo stuff, but my old white ass still gets a kick out of the work he did with the Wu on 36 Chambers. I think it's the same with a lot of artists - if my only exposure to Flava Flav was the weird-ass behavior he showed during his recent roast, or the whole Flava of Love show (which I have thankfully never watched - reality TV should burn in hell), well, I'd think he was just some crazy-ass screwball. But I've heard some of his music, old stuff with Public Enemy, and it makes me understand why a lot of people like him for what he's done. Not necessarily for what he does now, mind you. It's really tough to look at where people end up and judge the entirety of their work by that final impression.

I mean, hell. Look at Bob Dylan. You ever see Dylan in concert? His voice is largely shot, man. At times he's damn difficult to understand. But when he starts singing, when he pulls those old gems out and dusts them off for you, well, you get a little bit of a taste of why he's as legendary as he is. In the 80s, when he was rambling on about Christianity, well that didn't make everything he'd done before suddenly not worth a listen, did it? If it really ruined it for you, well, you need to get over that just a bit. What we become is not often what we set out to be.

Which is really, in the end, a long-winded way of saying damn fella, try listening to his shit before you dismiss him outright.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:49 AM on February 4, 2008


lest every white person afraid of hip-hop feel the need to pile on with trite comments on how rap music is ruining everything.

Rap music is ruining everything. Every time I get into a relationship with a beautiful, wholesome white woman a rapper with sparkly teeth and a huge penis steals her away from me and turns her into a ho. Damn you rap music!
posted by MikeMc at 2:02 PM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]


"..try listening to his shit before you dismiss him outright."

Why would I want to give another nanosecond of my life to a man who tries to play his own? Fool me once and all that shit, but to blatantly give an artist a shot KNOWING this is how he feels about his audience? I consider myself very lucky to learn this now and dismiss him outright.

As for Bob Dylan... you may should have picked a different talent for your analogy. I'm not a blind follower to his pied piper song either.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:10 PM on February 4, 2008


And hey, whatever it is you do in life, Demogorgon, I'm sure you do it all for love, right? Yeah, brother, right on!

Well, the dream is to be able to do something you love and get, if not rich, at least comfortably cashed-up from it, yeah?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:02 AM on February 5, 2008


Wow, ZachsMind. Just wow. Every time I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, you end up acting like a dick. Really. "Pied piper song"? So all of his political stuff, the whole folk music scene that he was such a vital part of, all of what the man had to say was just a way for Dylan to trap people into something? What, exactly? "Another talent", what do you mean by that? Are you saying that Dylan couldn't write? Couldn't sing, well, I've heard that all before, and of course the man's voice is a matter of preference (although I submit Nashville Skyline for anyone who thinks he really couldn't ever sing - voice got worse as he aged though, no argument there) but are you actually saying that Dylan couldn't write?

There is a reason he's revered in the music world. Hint: Not his singing voice. But anyone who's ever read anything you've written on this site knows that you are always right and there's no point in arguing with you because you are always right, even when you are dead wrong. So have fun with that, if it's working for you.
posted by caution live frogs at 5:21 PM on February 9, 2008


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