Emos Hunted

March 27, 2008 11:17 AM

Violence against emos sweeps across Mexico.

Emo Resistance.

Anti-emo sentiment w/ video of mob attack.

Coverage from Mexico.

Emo attacks spread to Chile.

posted by BigSky (136 comments total)

This really makes me sad.
posted by HuronBob at 11:22 AM on March 27 [18 favorites]

If it weren't for the actual footage of pretty frightening violence, I would think this was an Onion article. How weird. Well, I guess not so weird.
posted by dersins at 11:27 AM on March 27

Jesus, why not just go beat up on some veal calves? Poor kids.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:27 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]

dersins nails it. First thought I had was, "Mods vs Rockers."
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 11:30 AM on March 27

rwanda is always just a motion away...
posted by klanawa at 11:30 AM on March 27

So is the mother & child reunion.
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 11:32 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]

This really makes me sad.

That sounds pretty emo, Bob.
posted by klangklangston at 11:33 AM on March 27 [4 favorites]

The next weekend it spread to Mexico City, where emos faced off against punks and rockabillies at the Glorieta de Insurgents, the epicenter of emo social space in the capital.

What the hell is a rockabilly? And unless I'm mistaken, it appears that people are going to war over their haircuts.
posted by Pastabagel at 11:33 AM on March 27 [11 favorites]

you leave paulie out of this...

*crack*
posted by klanawa at 11:33 AM on March 27

ugly stupid birds anyway...
posted by quonsar at 11:34 AM on March 27 [6 favorites]

First they came for the teeny boppers, and I did not speak out -
because I was not a twelve year old.

Then they came for the hipsters, and I did not speak out -
because I was not doing anything ironic.

Then they came for the emos, and I did not speak out -
because I was not that sad inside.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
posted by Someone has just shot your horse! at 11:34 AM on March 27 [23 favorites]

You're gonna egret that.
posted by yhbc at 11:35 AM on March 27 [5 favorites]

HEADLINE: EMOS GIVEN SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:36 AM on March 27 [66 favorites]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who read that as "emus". I'm so out of it this week.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 11:36 AM on March 27

It's pretty awful to think that people are getting attacked for reasons that must seem totally moronic to most normal people over seventeen. That said, if I were a teenager, I would hate emo kids, too. As it stands, I just hate their music.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:37 AM on March 27

Seriously, though, what the fuck?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:37 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]

I really thought this was a joke because I can't get online video at work... so it's real? Wow. Totally bizarre.
posted by GuyZero at 11:38 AM on March 27

What the hell is a rockabilly?

If it's anything like the American youth cult, guys who wear duck tail haircuts and bowling shirts and girls who dress like Bettie Page and listen to Carl Perkins and Reverend Horton Heat.

And unless I'm mistaken, it appears that people are going to war over their haircuts.

It's just standard Lord Of The Flies childish bullshit. It's happened everywhere throughout history: mods vs. rockers, skinheads vs. mods vs. punks, punks vs. metalheads, black metallers vs. everyone, etc. Usually when the subject of "emo kids" comes up I go on a rant about how "emo" was a music scene in DC that died when most of them were little kids and how it really refers to Fugazi and Nation Of Ulysses, but I've resigned myself to the fact that no one wants to use it correctly and it's come to refer to kids who wear Mr. Rogers sweaters and listen to a bunch of interchangeable bands that all sound like Our Lady Peace.
posted by DecemberBoy at 11:40 AM on March 27 [11 favorites]

not that these kids should be fighting over their god damn fashions or anything, but in a fight between emo kinds and punks, the punks win.
posted by shmegegge at 11:40 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]

Fugazi is emo? Huh?
posted by shmegegge at 11:40 AM on March 27

At least the emo kids have razor blades handy to defend themselves.
posted by smackfu at 11:41 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]

I like Emo Philips well enough, but I can understand how he'd piss me off if I were Mexican.

I was walking down the street, something caught my eye... and dragged it fifteen feet.
posted by not_on_display at 11:41 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]

"epicenter of emo social space"...

I thought that was youtube....
posted by HuronBob at 11:41 AM on March 27

Wake me up when the mods start getting attacked.

Then we'll get on our scooters, go down there and kick ass.
posted by psmealey at 11:43 AM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Attacking mods? jessamyn, did you cover that at SXSW?
posted by not_on_display at 11:47 AM on March 27

The notion of "other" isn't confined to a single country or culture. It appears until there is only one human left there will always be an "other" to fear and despise.
posted by tommasz at 11:47 AM on March 27

I'm not sure emos are feared, exactly...
posted by anthill at 11:51 AM on March 27

Fugazi is emo? Huh?

Sigh... OK, you twisted my arm. "Emo" is short for "emotional hardcore", a term which was coined to describe two DC bands, Embrace, of which Ian MacKaye was a member, and Rites Of Spring, fronted by Guy Picciotto. After both bands petered out, MacKaye formed Fugazi, and shortly thereafter Picciotto joined. Therefore, given that Fugazi is made up in part of two of the progenitors of emotional hardcore, and that "emo" came to refer to the DC scene of the late 80s-early 90s as a whole, including bands like Nation Of Ulysses who mostly sang about Robitussin and overthrowing the government, if you're using "emo" in its original "emotional hardcore" sense, yes, Fugazi is emo. If you're using it as whatever the hell it means now, Mr. Rogers sweaters and Fall Out Boy, no, they are not.
posted by DecemberBoy at 11:52 AM on March 27 [17 favorites]

Oh my God! What the fuck is wrong with people? Not just the rioters in Mexico. Did you read the comments on the last.fm link that were cheering on the mobs?

That's it. I'm quitting humanity. I'm turning in my membership card. I'm not the same species as anyone who thinks this is acceptable behavior.

Maybe the Bonobos are recruiting.
posted by MythMaker at 11:53 AM on March 27 [18 favorites]

Punks vs. Rockabillies vs. Goths vs. Emos... this is just a big setup for a "Warriors" remake, isn't it? We'll know for certain if any clowns in baseball uniforms show up to take a few shots.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:53 AM on March 27 [5 favorites]

It's like some weird retread of the epic skinz/longhair wars that broke out after some genius decided to pair the Cro-Mags and German thrash metallers Destruction for a US tour back in the 80s.
posted by The Straightener at 11:55 AM on March 27 [3 favorites]

I am going to quell my usual impulse to make emo jokes and just point out that, if these reports are true, that is very fucked up.
posted by everichon at 11:55 AM on March 27

"Do not, and I'm serious, DO NOT call bands like Green Day, My Chemical Romance emo. The are NOT! They are pop-punk, and if you call them emo, you'll will be called a poser by real emos. In fact, if you even do think they are emo, then you ARE probably a poser. Emo or not, it is ok to LISTEN to them, as long as you DO NOT call them emo."

Oh fer chrissakes, every friggin' time I get THAT close to figuring out whether I'm a Mod or a Rocker, somebody comes along and moves the goalposts.

Anyone want to buy a pair of paisley leather chaps?
posted by Mike D at 11:56 AM on March 27

Groups of assholes have always been with us, but leveraging the web to better communicate and increase their numbers and efficiency is a new thing. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW TIM BERNERS LEE?
posted by everichon at 11:58 AM on March 27 [3 favorites]

Did you read the comments on the last.fm link that were cheering on the mobs?

That's it. I'm quitting humanity. I'm turning in my membership card. I'm not the same species as anyone who thinks this is acceptable behavior.

Oh, please - have you seen stormfront.org?

This particular wave of violence does lend credence to anyone who thinks that humans will find any possible reason to beat up other humans. Religion, politics, and now fashion - the reasons don't matter, because the beating up will go on!
posted by WalterMitty at 12:00 PM on March 27

Usually when the subject of "emo kids" comes up I go on a rant about how "emo" was a music scene in DC that died when most of them were little kids and how it really refers to Fugazi and Nation Of Ulysses

And don't forget Dagnasty, Decemberboy.

Jeez this story is bizzare.

And with this news, humanity has officially become a parody of itself.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:00 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

It's like some weird retread of the epic skinz/longhair wars that broke out after some genius decided to pair the Cro-Mags and German thrash metallers Destruction for a US tour back in the 80s.

That is indeed legendary among my friends from Queens who use the word bro with no irony and own or hang out in tattoo shops all day. John Bloodclot was scary.

I find emo's to be pretty fucking ludicrous, even by the standards of silly preening youth sub-cultures, but people really shouldn't be beating them up, it's not exactly like a metalhead squaring off with a skin for instance (I brought it back around you see?), plus violence diminishes us all.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:02 PM on March 27

DecemberBoy,

I never heard it called that. It's a little bit before my time, but from the late 80s on that was generally referenced as the Dischord scene in D.C., or just hardcore.
posted by BigSky at 12:04 PM on March 27

I never heard it called that. It's a little bit before my time, but from the late 80s on that was generally referenced as the Dischord scene in D.C., or just hardcore.

Now I have to go find my old Minor Threat discography. See what you've done?!
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:10 PM on March 27

I never heard it called that. It's a little bit before my time, but from the late 80s on that was generally referenced as the Dischord scene in D.C., or just hardcore.

It was just called "hardcore" in the days of Minor Threat and SOA and Government Issue, but by the mid-80s, "hardcore" meant more like Youth Of Today and such, bald kids singing about "the crew" and "the scene" and veganism. "Emotional hardcore" was a term that differentiated the "Revolution Summer" DC bands from that. You could also just call it "hardcore" and still be correct.

Also, I forgot that Brendan Canty was also in Rites Of Spring, so that's three of the progenitors. Rites Of Spring didn't like the term, but it was coined to describe them and their peers.
posted by DecemberBoy at 12:12 PM on March 27

generally referenced as the Dischord scene in D.C., or just hardcore.

As I always understood it, it was the original incarnation of Dagnasty (which included the original guitarist from Minor Threat, Brian something or other) under Dave Smalley's lead to which the term emo-core was first applied. Then later, bands like Soulside, Rites of Spring and others perfected the old-school of emo. And yeah, they were all Dischord bands. But emo was still considered a sub-genre of straight-edge hardcore then.

But then, what do I know--I AM MOST DEFINITELY NOT AN "EMO"!
posted by saulgoodman at 12:13 PM on March 27

um.... having watched the vids, i don't think they deserve the titles "massacre" or even "violence." all i saw was some kids bitch-slapping some other kids. that's not really news. where are the pipes and chains, the blades? this is about a close to a "massacre" as a swirlie.

here's news:

"kids who work damn hard to be weird outsiders are suddenly derided as weird outsiders!"
posted by mr_book at 12:30 PM on March 27

Ah hah!

The battle of the socially irrelevant passe musical subcultures is upon us!

Quick! Get the glowsticks! To the Greebo Cave!
posted by [son] QUAALUDE at 12:32 PM on March 27 [6 favorites]

sorry about the, um, overenthusiastic music history derail...

there was also this recent case of a 15-year old boy in britain kicking a woman to death because she "looked goth." what the hell kind of excuse is that for attacking let alone killing someone?
posted by saulgoodman at 12:35 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Jesus. I can't believe Mexicans are willing to lump together collections of individuals like that.
posted by Greg Nog at 12:35 PM on March 27 [15 favorites]

I'm also super into slapping people who look different than I do.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:36 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

and a Goth got kicked to death in England.
posted by boo_radley at 12:37 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]

People sure hate other people they've identified via arbitrary labels.
posted by batmonkey at 12:39 PM on March 27

Emo-bashing is just another form of gay-bashing/homophobia, as noted in that Revolver blurb:

They’ve reportedly traced the beginnings of the conflict to a web campaign portraying emo fans as “homosexual” and giving a “bad image” to tourists.

"I mean gay people are fine as long as they look and act straight, but these emo guys look and act like fags! Let's kill 'em!"

I'm pretty surprised no one has mentioned that angle yet. It's just plain old fag-bashing. Nothing new here ... except for the fact that homophobes can support the violence without appearing overtly homophobic.

It also provides a level of legal protection in America, i.e. I don't think emos are a protected class in re hate crimes. "I didn't kick his ass b/c he's gay; it's b/c he's emo!"
posted by mrgrimm at 12:40 PM on March 27 [7 favorites]

You guys wanna argue about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin next?
posted by spicynuts at 12:40 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

First time I ever heard the use of the term "emo," DecemberBoy, it was in reference to Sunny Day Real Estate.... always just heard of Fugazi, etc., as "melodic hardcore" and then the heavier bands started going by the term "emo-core" in the late 90s...
posted by chimaera at 12:44 PM on March 27

For all the hyperventilating here, I'm not sure how this differs significantly from the Epic Battles (of surprisingly little actual violence) between, say, kids from my high school and those from the rival high school. (Rumbles to be held annually at the Hebron Harvest Fair, yo! Don't miss it!) I mean, we all knew those Manchester kids were bitches - they lived in Manchester! It was self-evident! Teenagers have always, and will always, flock mindlessly to various clans, and subsequently square off physically with any perceived rival clans. I'm not surprised that most MeFites were not members of any of the aggressor clans, but I *am* surprised they're not more familiar with the behavior itself. (And don't even get me *started* on Colchester kids!)
posted by Banky_Edwards at 12:44 PM on March 27

"kids who work damn hard to be weird outsiders are suddenly derided as weird outsiders!"

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. The victims were "derided." Just playful joshing, right?

Why on Earth should "weird outsiders" be derided anyway? Diversity is a good thing, no?
posted by mrgrimm at 12:47 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

I've made plenty of fun of emo, and now I feel just a little bad about it. Not for any logical reasons, though. I mean, why should I change? These mobs are the ones who suck!
posted by ignignokt at 12:47 PM on March 27

You know, I hate to admit this, but it's partly my fault, along with I'm sure many other MeFites who chipped in their own anti-emo hate. When society starts breaking down and people look for someone to beat up they're going to turn to whoever has the least public support.

I resolve to talk less shit in the future, because there are always going to be people out there who want to take it too far.
posted by Citizen Premier at 12:47 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]

I was teaching high school in suburban Canada when Columbine happened in 1999. Of course, the same goofy weirdos who constituted the "trenchcoat mafia" continued to wear their trenchcoats and combat boots the next day. A few of them even lugged around aluminum briefcases that looked kind of like...bombs.

They continued to huddle together in the lunchroom or wherever and wondered why they were outcasts.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:48 PM on March 27

Turn around, Bright Eyes.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:48 PM on March 27 [8 favorites]

"The notion of "other" isn't confined to a single country or culture. It appears until there is only one human left there will always be an "other" to fear and despise."


And the one left'll probably be a self hating schizophrenic. Humanity = awesome.
posted by stenseng at 12:50 PM on March 27

chimaera:
I first saw "emocore" used in Maximum Rock & Roll in...'86? '87? Something like that. I know it goes back further than current usage and was definitely part of the late '80s "how many schisms can we make off of hardcore?" trend.
posted by batmonkey at 12:51 PM on March 27

I'm betting this is some kind of viral marketing for yet another remake of Romeo and Juliet.

Perhaps the suckiest version yet; the one where a little emo Romeo tries to court a rockabilly Juliet but he is too grief-stricken with his eyeliner and spends the whole film brooding over the his existential angst. Juliet scenes have her jacked up on crystal meth and hence, she doesn't notice at all.
posted by quin at 12:54 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

The victims were "derided." Just playful joshing, right?

that about sums it up.
posted by mr_book at 12:55 PM on March 27

It hardly seems sporting.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:57 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Maybe the Bonobos are recruiting.

Yeah, but can you imagine what the hazing is like when you go to join the bonobo gang?

The "emo" kids in the video and the photos look like what was called "wavers" when I was in high school. Going downtown or to the mall sometimes meant getting harassed just like the emo kids in el DF, but luckily that was before YouTube so no one else had to know.

And isn't making your dad mad and provoking reactions from passers-by the whole point of having a funny haircut in the first place?
posted by Forktine at 12:57 PM on March 27

Y’know tho’ there’s like a really homophobic undercurrent in Mexican culture. And it’s not even rational. Not that homophobia is rational, but it can be - at least in the U.S. - articulated somewhat. Y’know, like any sort of anti-whateverism. The thought of two men kissing creeps you out so Grrr! you hate ‘em. Or you might think you’re gay so you gotta prove you’re not by showing how much you hate dem homos Grrr!! Or (pseudo)religious reasons. Whatever.
(I'm speaking very informally here, no offense meant)
In Mexican culture, you can’t wear shorts if you’re a guy.
Oh, never mind that cholos (and I’m speaking specifically here, of the gangsters, not using the broader pejorative) wear knee high white socks with khaki shorts and brightly colored, neatly folded bandanas (in the back pocket even) and/or hair nets and dress in clothes with the brand name “Dickies” - no, they carry guns and will shoot you if you point out they wear shorts too. And anyway, that’s California.
No, the old school guys in/from Mexico will not, under any circumstances, wear shorts. Buddy of mine I work out with is a Mexican. Just recently I got him wearing lighter weight workout pants and t-shirt (instead of the jeans and guayabera he seemed to like to sweat in). Can’t get him into shorts though. Doing squats. In the pool. Nada. Nope.
So it’s a strong - unstated, unstatable - sort of thing.
On top of that cultural misunderstanding there’s the language barrier.

Went to Mexico with some buddies of mine a while back. Wasn’t too cold or warm. But one of my buddies was in shorts. We ordered some food and beers and stuff, in flawless Spanish (except me) and my shorts wearing buddy who spoke no Spanish.
So a group of Mexican guys (boots, cowboy hats, the whole rancher deal) yell “Eh! Maricón!” at him. “Eh? Maricón?”

Well, it sounds like “American” so he waves back and says “Hell yeah! Go USA!” Smiles.

So the rancheros all start laughing. “Usted es un maricón grande, eh?”
We’re laughing. I’ve got Horchata coming out of my nose. He knows he’s not getting something so he just sitting there with a confused look on his face.

But it was weird, because we were a group of very large, not soft looking, guys, they were a smaller bunch of short dudes. But they just had to screw with us. I mean, I don’t know anyone who would shout at a bunch of heavily muscled leather guys “hey you faggots!” It’s almost suicidal really.

I still don’t get it. It’s almost accepted to have a gay guy around (he wasn’t, but y’know) if you can tease him.
But if you dress a certain way and you’re straight - that’s your ass. Y’know, like if you were really gay, ok, then that’s fine, but don’t be straight and do that.

I suspect the Emo thing - precisely because it’s expressive and more because it’s emotionally expressive and in non-conforming ways - is what is pissing them off.
That and perhaps that component of artifice. Maybe because they’re so in earnest about things (my buddy’s grandfather is an old guy, retired, nothing to do, but gets up every day, puts on his boots, jeans, bolo tie, rancher hat, looks like he’s about to get on a horse)
Not that I think anyone should be beat on.
But that seems to be the gist (speaking solely from my limited perspective of course)
posted by Smedleyman at 12:58 PM on March 27 [5 favorites]

WOLVERINES!!!!!!
posted by CitizenD at 12:59 PM on March 27

re:Chile. 'Pokemones' aren't emo, regardless of reporters capitalization ("PokEMOn"). They'r influenced by Japanese fashion (supposedly, mostly they just have really bad haircuts, think a pointy mullet) and listen to Reggaeton and similar crap.
But hey, they have the letters e-m-o in their journalist-imposed label, so they must be emo!
posted by signal at 1:00 PM on March 27

"and if you call them emo, you'll will be called a poser by real emos."

Oh, as I live and dream.


You know, I hate to admit this, but it's partly my fault, along with I'm sure many other MeFites who chipped in their own anti-emo hate. When society starts breaking down and people look for someone to beat up they're going to turn to whoever has the least public support.

I resolve to talk less shit in the future, because there are always going to be people out there who want to take it too far."

Now that's pretty fuckin' emo.
posted by klangklangston at 1:05 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

First time I ever heard the use of the term "emo," DecemberBoy, it was in reference to Sunny Day Real Estate

Bands like Sunny Day Real Estate, The Promise Ring, etc. were the second wave emocore bands influenced by the DC bands. As near as I can tell, they're the link between original DC emocore and modern Dashboard Confessional type shit, although really, the term emo in reference to music means something totally different than it once did and I'm not even sure what that is.
posted by DecemberBoy at 1:06 PM on March 27

But so far, no coverage on Makeout Club.
posted by klangklangston at 1:07 PM on March 27

I'm not surprised that most MeFites were not members of any of the aggressor clans, but I *am* surprised they're not more familiar with the behavior itself.

Ha! Are you kidding me? The good-natured little tiffs between skater punks and cops that I grew up with can't be compared to the massacre bound to occur between mexicans [sic] and emos. Skater punks could hold their own! Emos, on the other hand, are lovers not fighters; attacking emo kids is like stomping on baby ducks for fun or something. Sure, all that quacking might get annoying after a while, but for god's sake man--it's just not right!

I was teaching high school in suburban Canada when Columbine happened in 1999. Of course, the same goofy weirdos who constituted the "trenchcoat mafia" continued to wear their trenchcoats and combat boots the next day. A few of them even lugged around aluminum briefcases that looked kind of like...bombs.

They continued to huddle together in the lunchroom or wherever and wondered why they were outcasts.

Relevance, KokoRyu? Emos are not those trenchcoat kids, you know.

(As an aside, one of those trenchcoat mafia kids at my school supposedly showed up looking for me one day with a handgun. He was a wannabe nazi skin; I was on the positive youth brigade trip. Luckily, I was absent that day. His commitment to killing me was so deep, he never bothered with me again. Good times, good times.)

posted by saulgoodman at 1:08 PM on March 27

Also, saying "emocore" was coined just for Embrace and Rites Of Spring was a bit of an oversimplification, there was a whole group of bands that were part of the DC "Revolution Summer" in 1985, which spawned emotional hardcore, but Embrace and ROS are the two everyone remembers.
posted by DecemberBoy at 1:09 PM on March 27

Outcasts, but not really. As far as I've seen emos have a perfectly functioning subculture going on, one of the most sane and balanced of current crop, as it puts forth the emotional imbalance that just belongs to that age, deals and fetisizes it instead of denying it. Also there are enough emo boys and emo girls so that they don't have to hunt for possible mates from other tribes. They will survive this.

In internet standards, Metafilter is emo kid with its worrying about community and trying to be 'not like mainstream internet' when compared to honest working i-don't-give-a-crap-what-others-think places like youtube.
posted by Free word order! at 1:10 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort
“We’ll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!”
And, whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
They’d hike right on past them without even talking.

posted by jenkinsEar at 1:11 PM on March 27 [4 favorites]

The Chile link doesn't talk about 'Emos', per se, but "pokemones", which are a slightly unique homegrown subculture (Newsweek article).
posted by dgaicun at 1:12 PM on March 27

Screamo must conform to the rules of emo.

Plus, Husker Du was emotional hardcore before DC took off, so there.

(Other quasi-legitimate sub-genre names that I have used: Dreamo, schemo, memo, bemo.)
posted by klangklangston at 1:15 PM on March 27

"I *am* surprised they're not more familiar with the behavior itself."

Just 'coz folks aren't laying it out in white on blue doesn't mean there's not familiarity.

Maybe we're finally so tired of the endless "other makes me feel funny...let's get 'em!" meme and the times it's impacted us directly we don't feel like listing it all out this time and instead just want to nod along with the rest who are shocked and dismayed that people are still doing this sort of thing after several thousand years of attempts at making it stop.
posted by batmonkey at 1:17 PM on March 27

Take a person predisposed to random violence, then expose them to a lot of other people who enjoy taking an us vs. them position against people who are different from themselves, and you get instant focused violence from that individual, because it's no longer socially inappropriate (within their circle, that is.)

That's what makes the "don't make yourself a target" conversation difficult as a parent, because the kids are correct: they have every right to express themselves any way they choose. It's just that doing so to the degree that they're truly unique individuals or a member of a social subclass makes them an attractive target for people seeking an outlet for their violent urges.
posted by davejay at 1:18 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Ooh! ooh! Genre fight!
Fugazi is Post-hardcore.
Come on. Mess with it.
posted by brevator at 1:20 PM on March 27

the term emo in reference to music means something totally different than it once did and I'm not even sure what that is.

To me what it means is that any musical term that is supposed to reference like two or three bands, total, is ridiculously specific and should be struck from the lexicon.
posted by Justinian at 1:21 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Also, while the Mexico links implicate skaters, skate punks, punks, soccer fans, rockabillies, and metal heads (the more "masculine" subcultures), the video from Chile just says 'skinheads'. I'm not sure if the same sub-cultural feuds are "spreading" to Chile, or slightly different things are happening in both places (and are spontaneous to both places).
posted by dgaicun at 1:28 PM on March 27

To me what it means is that any musical term that is supposed to reference like two or three bands, total, is ridiculously specific and should be struck from the lexicon.

justinian: well, then i guess bossa nova will have to go...

first they came for the emo, then for the bossa nova... etc.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:28 PM on March 27

any musical term that is supposed to reference like two or three bands, total, is ridiculously specific and should be struck from the lexicon.

You gonna employ all those out of work music critics?
posted by ND¢ at 1:35 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]

Just 'coz folks aren't laying it out in white on blue doesn't mean there's not familiarity.

True, true. It just seemed like there was a great deal of shock here; not that such things still happen but that they happen at all. Perhaps it's just a function of the limited amount of information here. Some people appear to be treating this as some kind of unprecedented pogrom against defenseless little Mexican emo kids, while it looked to me more like the kind of things that have been going on anywhere a few dozen teenagers are gathered together. My gut tells me that if the persecuted kids here wore mullets and denim jackets with Metallica logos, MeFi would offer a collective smirk instead of borderline outrage.
posted by Banky_Edwards at 1:40 PM on March 27

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd."
posted by plexi at 1:42 PM on March 27

My money says that this is well orchestrated April Fools joke that culminates in a report of the "Rockabillies using a dirty bomb on the emos."
posted by togdon at 1:45 PM on March 27

My gut tells me that if the persecuted kids here wore mullets and denim jackets with Metallica logos, MeFi would offer a collective smirk instead of borderline outrage.

well, yeah, since i realized skater-punks and metal-heads were among the aggressors i've been having a hard time taking this as seriously. we always used to joke about going after these kids here in the US (but that was only because we thought they were posers, which of course, justifies the whole thing, right?).

i think for me, this news following so closely on the heels of the news about the woman in britain who was murdered for looking goth just sort of resonated in an ominous way.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:47 PM on March 27

It's all just cognitive miserdom. All of it.

Slap a label on someone and you'll eventually find someone else who's okay with kicking the ass of anyone wearing that label.

Sickening. Whether it's shade of skin vs. shade of skin or punks vs. poseurs or 2,500yr old religion vs. 2,000yr old religion, it's all just divisive, narrow-minded crap.
posted by batmonkey at 2:06 PM on March 27

Screamo... Jesus Christ.

Somewhere around 2002 some band that actually labeled themselves as screamo played one of the punkier clubs in Lawrence, KS, that a friend of mine and I just happened to be drinking at. Since it was around the time Kansas decided to enter the evolution fray, the singer (in the exact opposite of his cookie monster singing voice) decided to say, "Gosh, so this is Kansas, huh? That whole evolution thing really sucks, you know? Like, what are they trying to prove?" to which my friend and I both turned around and started screaming obscenities at the band and telling them to go home. Poor guys looked really hurt. I guess they weren't expecting two nerdy grad student types to hassle them. Maybe if we would have worn a Slayer t-shirt or something.

Not that the violence in the links isn't horrific, or that I don't believe it wasn't based on homophobia, but fucking screamo. Ugh.
posted by sleepy pete at 2:08 PM on March 27

Metalheads and Punkers have been beating each other up for years and finally they've found a reason to unite; beating up kids in a scene that shamelessly adulterates metal and punk, has no message, has an obnoxious attitude, and is mostly about fashion.

Escalating beyond throwing the accasional stray punch to these kids in the mosh pit was only a matter of time considering how popular emo has become and how it has infiltrated popular punk and metal in the US and Mexico.
posted by hellslinger at 2:16 PM on March 27

occasional*
posted by hellslinger at 2:17 PM on March 27

You gonna employ all those out of work music critics?

Music critics will be able to find employment at coffeeshops and pizza parlors, just like they do now.
posted by klangklangston at 2:17 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Somewhere around 2002 some band that actually labeled themselves as screamo…

Somewhere around 2002, I was up in Rochester, NY, with my girlfriend's family while we moved her out to Boston. We stopped at a record store, and I asked one of the clerks if he could recommend any good local albums. He said sure.

Come to find out, every single one of the ten albums he recommended was "screamo," and that was all he listened to.

I felt like a jerk for putting 'em all back, but, fuck, man, what the hell do I need screamo albums from also-rans in Rochester for when I don't even want the a-list screamos?
posted by klangklangston at 2:21 PM on March 27

Anything that makes the proper mocking of goths/emo types harder/less acceptable is a bad thing.
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Music critics will be able to find employment at coffeeshops and pizza parlors, just like they do now

Also, at porno publishing empires, amirite?
posted by dersins at 2:26 PM on March 27

First, DecemberBoy wins. While I'll take you at your word that Fugazi is emo, I prefer to live in my fantasy world where Fugazi and Fall Out Boy are not permitted to share a paragraph.

Secondly, if this is a fight over music as identity, then I'm sorry, at then end of the day only two gropus are left standing. First is NWA, because when they're called off, they grab a sawed off, squeeze the trigger, and bodies are hauled off. The other group that survives is all the death metal bands, because they so reek of sweat and beer no one wants to get anywhere near them.
posted by Pastabagel at 2:32 PM on March 27 [4 favorites]

Pastabagel, a case in point.
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 2:44 PM on March 27

I have always enjoyed learning about the endless rock genres, because (unlike say, bossa nova and bebop, which actually did mean something specific for a brief time) they are almost completely meaningless to the point of being silly, even moreso when people get so bent out of shape about them.

After all, terms like goth, emo and grunge much more accurately express aesthetics than they describe musical archetypes. I mean, how could you possibly put Bauhaus, Siouxsie, Christian Death, the Cure, etc. in the same sonic category? Answer: you can't. They only thing they vaguely had in common was their look. Similarly, a garage band like Mudhoney, a metal band like Soundgarden, an arena rock band like Pearl Jam and a noisy Beatles derived band like Nirvana have little in common other than long greasy hear and a proclivity to wearing flannel (have you been to Seattle? It's CHILLY and wet there all the time, that's why the fucking wear flannel).

Fugazi's music defies classification, which is, to me, what makes them great. At times they are closer to jazz than they are to rock, and then they shade back into gut wrenching rock when you don't expect it. They have more moments of genius in their catalogue than 20 other more successful bands I can name. But emo? I had heard this but, it never meant anything to me. I'd heard emo used first to describe the Descendents, but that always seemed a bit off to me too. Emo didn't really start to crystallize in my own world view until I heard the horrendously insipid, crappy and overwrought shite that terrible bands like Dashboard Confessional and Good Charlotte were putting out a few years back. I don't know if that's emo either, but it sounds like it should be something called emo.

But Fall Out Boy and My Chemical whatever as "pop-punk"? Why not just pop? At the end of the day, what's the difference between those bands and Ashlee Simpson or Avril Lavigne. It's just mass produced, lighter than air, hooky pop music, isn't it? What makes them "punk"? Did they live in the Bowery between 1974 and 1977? Or is it just their eyeliner? It's probably just the eyeliner.

By the way, what's "black metal"? That one intrigues me, but I don't know if I could identify it.
posted by psmealey at 2:59 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]

Pastabagel, Cradle of Filth is to death metal as Fall Out Boy is to Fugazi.

Not that I'm disagreeing about the sweat and beer thing.

/closeted death metaler
posted by aldurtregi at 3:01 PM on March 27

Black metal? Easy to identify. That's the genre where they eat their own dead.
posted by dersins at 3:05 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

Yeah, also, as a point of information: death metal is not the genre Cradle of Filth purports itself to play. They push themselves as a band.

/Old death metaller (that hasn't listened to any new death metal in the last five years)
posted by ignignokt at 3:05 PM on March 27

Whoa, not sure how I screwed the linking up so bad. I meant:

Black metal
posted by ignignokt at 3:06 PM on March 27

psmealey: It's an album by Venom.

Other than that, you got me. I could speculate that it involves make-up, Satan, and speed, but that just sounds like KISS.

Or, you know, read the comments above mine.
posted by sleepy pete at 3:08 PM on March 27

...to which my friend and I both turned around and started screaming obscenities at the band and telling them to go home.

Huh? Are you saying they were for or against the IDers; it isn't really clear from your quote - though I naturally took it as laughing at the creationist nuts.
posted by dgaicun at 3:10 PM on March 27

You were wrong.
posted by sleepy pete at 3:35 PM on March 27

Or how about this (sorry for being snippy): You're in a bar in the midwest in a state whose legislature you are frustrated by, in a country whose government is frustrating you even more, and even if you live in what is one of the most liberal places in that part of the US, someone comes in whining about how much your state sucks--even though their from Nebraska or something. Clapping and saying woo hoo seemed like a stupid thing to do. Sorry, but there's only so much bullshit I can take, especially from a bunch of kids with guitars that cost more than my car telling me about how where I live needs to be more free (and at some point saying something about helping the working class).

And in case you're wondering, I've seen some crazy stuff from both the audience and performer side of the line and that exchange was very, very mild in comparison. I'm also of the mindset that bands interact with people in the crowd, not preach to them in a condescending manner that's almost as guiling as someone telling you creationism is the better than science.

Plus, they were boring as hell.
posted by sleepy pete at 3:46 PM on March 27

When I first read this, I thought it was a joke.

Weird.

My second thought is that they need a mediator.

What the hell? What are these people so angry about?

I hate Nickelback, but I don't try to fight with Nickelback fans...oops, sorry, reason intruding there.
posted by 4midori at 3:46 PM on March 27

their = they're (I've been doing that a lot lately, sorry)
posted by sleepy pete at 3:47 PM on March 27

Black Metal is first and foremost about being totally KVLT. Other facets include Satan, Nazism, and nature. In fact, there's a whole subgenre of Forest Metal!
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 3:54 PM on March 27

Bands like Sunny Day Real Estate, The Promise Ring, etc. were the second wave emocore bands influenced by the DC bands. As near as I can tell, they're the link between original DC emocore and modern Dashboard Confessional type shit, although really, the term emo in reference to music means something totally different than it once did and I'm not even sure what that is.
posted by DecemberBoy

I would agree, but second wave started with CaP'n Jazz and Drive Like Jehu. Listening to those two and thinking about where emo has gone always makes me smirk .... and, appropriately, cry a little on the inside. *sob*

I like to think of Emo up to the mid/late 90's as: hardcore punk kids playing indie rock. Now it seems like a modern incarnation of goth, which also started with good music before becoming crap.
posted by dr. moot at 4:07 PM on March 27

"Also, at porno publishing empires, amirite?"

Za-za-za-zing!
posted by klangklangston at 4:09 PM on March 27

/Old death metaller (that hasn't listened to any new death metal in the last five years)

Okay! While you're here, I've gotta ask. Here's the greatest death metal song I have ever heard, in its lyrical entirety:

BLUH BLUH BLUH BLUH BLUH! BLUH BLUH BLUH BLUH BLUH!!! BL-BL-BL-BL-BL-BL-BLDAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHMMMMMMMEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

...Seriously. Any info on the artist would be greatly appreciated!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:25 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]

You're in a bar in the midwest in a state whose legislature you are frustrated by, in a country whose government is frustrating you even more... someone comes in whining about how much your state sucks

So you were angry because they shared your own opinions about local politics?
posted by dgaicun at 4:26 PM on March 27

I still find it astonishing that Morrissey has such a following in Mexico,
posted by Mintyblonde at 4:29 PM on March 27

yes, nothing pisses me off more.
posted by sleepy pete at 4:30 PM on March 27

kittens, the secret is that most death metal fans don't care what the actual words are. We like the sound and sometimes the sentiment. Sometimes "GRAAAAAAAGHH!" sounds awesome, and as busy as the music already is, fitting in a melodic vocal line often doesn't make sense.

If we want words, we'll look for poetry or prose.

If I had to guess, though, I'd say that's something from Macabre's concept album Dahmer. However, they don't really growl much.
posted by ignignokt at 4:47 PM on March 27

HEADLINE: BILLY CORGAN GETS NEW INSPIRATION!
posted by bwg at 5:00 PM on March 27

I believe one of the Project Runway finalists icked out the judges by putting clothes with emo-fur trim on the runway.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on March 27

Banky_Edwards writes "I'm not surprised that most MeFites were not members of any of the aggressor clans, but I *am* surprised they're not more familiar with the behavior itself."

I guess everybody experienced the sensation of belonging to some group, at some point in time. Teenagers looking for identity allright, but who focused these other people against the stereotype of emo ?

I was in Pere Lechise cemetery in Paris as I wished to visit a monumental cemetery and pay homage to some great mind over there (hint, one grave is covered with kisses :) and while I walked around I almost stumbled upon a group of Goths doing their thing...which was, loitering and talking on the benches. I was rather fascinated by the beauty of their attires and makeups and the girls obviously appeared even more cute. If anything the ones I met were a lot more approchable then other "unwelcoming" groups, suggesting that they are more self-confident and/or not xenophobes.

Now even if some of them could benefit greatly from a less depressive vision of the world, we are talking about THEIR vision, not the vision of others who perceived them to be depressive. Emos may be depressed, but they are depressive only to the eyes of these who find them to be depression inducing.

That's why I wonder who is fomenting who against the emos, if anything bigger than a slow-news-day story is indeed broling. Few people actively seek to torment when they can do without and leave the "offending" group alone while you keep mingling with "yours".

But two words bubble into mind , for some reason: Radio Marya and others hate spins.
posted by elpapacito at 5:04 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

I just find this amusing, mostly because it's a mob mentality taking over. Mind you, the sense of loathing for emo and the emo movement is common in a lot of places. The current joke in my circle of friends and acquaintances is that emo the new goth, but with shittier musical taste, and worse haircuts, and bad taste in relationships, and a lot more makeup, and more public displays of stupidity, etc, etc, etc. The biggest faux pas they extrude is something very common among self centered youth; they think they are so complex and "feel things more than everybody else" and that no one understands them. Well, usually no one wants to understand them because they are fucking boring. No, seriously, go find an emo kid and ask them about themselves. If they sigh you will probably have to restrain yourself from punching them, even if you are a pacifist. I am not kidding. They have no interest in learning about previous cultural movements that had the exact same message as the music they are currently listening to (the Morrissey joke is an old one, but a more relevant one would be asking them if they listen to The Smiths).
posted by daq at 6:00 PM on March 27

wow. so no one else remembers dag nasty? or is it just that no one buys the idea that they were the first emo band? 'cause i'm totally cool with them not having been the first emo band. i don't, though, buy for a second that fugazi was emo. fugazi came much later, after the whole emo thing (as I understood it at the time) had kind of lost steam.

in fact, i'd argue that the first fugazi record in a way marked the beginning of indie rock, proper. at least, that's what i always thought. they had a kind of dub/ska undercurrent going on, too. but emo? really? back then, all my die-hard hardcore-loving friends just grumbled that ian mackaye had sold out and become a druggie. but i remember, when i heard the first few bass notes that open that record, thinking: "wow, this changes everything." then shudder to think came along with "get your goat" and it was all "queer core this" and "queer core that..."

yeah... all the labels and sectarian BS are ridiculous. this is just asinine. but emo and its ugly cousin screamo really are awful. and if it hasn't been pointed out already: they're mainstream subcultures. that's why it's okay to beat emo kids up. /kidding
posted by saulgoodman at 6:24 PM on March 27

Pastabagel, Cradle of Filth is to death metal as Fall Out Boy is to Fugazi.

Not that I'm disagreeing about the sweat and beer thing.

/closeted death metaler
posted by aldurtregi at 6:01 PM on March 27

Here's how I embarass myself:

That link to death metal I posted above isn't the aptly named Cradle of Filth - the website hosting the image has labeled the file wrong. The band is actually Carpathian Forest, and the cottage cheese ass in question belongs to Vrangsinn, who is positively cherubic in this photo. The caption of this photo incorrectly identifies Vrangsinn as being the drummer of Carpathian Forest, when in fact Vrangsinn "plays" bass.

What is embarrassing is that I know all this without having to do any further research.
posted by Pastabagel at 6:24 PM on March 27 [1 favorite]

This phenomenon of disaffected countercultural youth attacking other disaffected countercultural youth just works to prove that wise old flashboy maxim:

The hatred people direct at those who are different to them doesn't even begin to compare to the hate people reserve for those who are extremely similar to them.
posted by dgaicun at 6:27 PM on March 27 [4 favorites]

By the way, what's "black metal"? That one intrigues me, but I don't know if I could identify it.

Check out the albums Ruun and Isa by the band Enslaved, you will probably be very pleasantly surprised.
posted by The Straightener at 6:31 PM on March 27

Ooh! ooh! Genre fight!
Fugazi is Post-hardcore.
Come on. Mess with it.

That's what the genre tag on the Fugazi records in my iTunes library says (post-hardcore), but really, they're hard to categorize. They described themselves, at least at first, as reggae dub by way of hardcore. I wouldn't call them emo now, since especially after their first few records they were something totally unique, and since emo doesn't mean lets-overcategorize-hardcore anymore like it did in 86-87. Emotional hardcore was really more of a way to lump DC bands that weren't necessarily anything alike together by MRR music critics and the like, and was more a label for the scene than for the music itself.
posted by DecemberBoy at 6:36 PM on March 27

Ian Mackaye on "emocore" in 1986:

"emocore must be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my entire life"
posted by skullbee at 6:41 PM on March 27

The hatred people direct at those who are different to them doesn't even begin to compare to the hate people reserve for those who are extremely similar to them.

Freud called that sort of thing "The Narcissism of Small Differences."
posted by jason's_planet at 7:02 PM on March 27

Why Fight? Well..."Homosapien. A man. He is alone in the universe.
A punker. Still a man. He is alone in the universe, but he connects. How? They hit each other.
Ooh! No clearer way to evaluate whether or not you're alive. Now, complications. A reason to fight. Somebody different. Difference creates dispute. Dispute is a reason to fight. To fight is a reason to feel pain. Life is pain. So to fight with reason is to be alive with reason. Final analysis: To fight, a reason to live.
(...)
Competition, fighting, capitalism, government, THE SYSTEM. That's what we did. It's what we always did.
Rednecks kicked the shit out of punks, punks kicked the shit out of mods, mods kicked the shit out of skinheads, skinheads took out the heavy metal guys, and the heavy metal guys beat the living shit out of new wavers and the new wavers didn't do anything. They were the new hippies. So what was the point? Final summation? None." Stevo, SLC Punk!
You could easily fit emos in there, somewhere.
posted by Zack_Replica at 7:08 PM on March 27

Weeeinerboys! Come out and plaa-aay!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:30 PM on March 27

I believe one of the Project Runway finalists icked out the judges by putting clothes with emo-fur trim on the runway.

It was Chris, and it was human hair. Or is that emo-fur?
posted by yhbc at 7:40 PM on March 27

portraying emo fans as “homosexual” and giving a “bad image” to tourists.

Because mob violence gives a real favorable image to tourists?

*has a new respect for emos*
posted by fogster at 8:30 PM on March 27

I was in Buenos Aires about 3 weeks ago, and the big news was a brawl between emos (or darks as theyre called down there) and chets (basically preps or jocks in BsAs slang) in the big downtown shopping mall.
posted by youthenrage at 9:03 PM on March 27

Why are they beating up the emo kids? Did Mexico run out of mimes already?
posted by mds35 at 9:10 PM on March 27

I was in Buenos Aires about 3 weeks ago, and the big news was a brawl between emos (or darks as theyre called down there)

Ah ok. I was told in Mexico city about the "darks" and didn't know whether they were ther same group. Just on walks through the city I saw lots of large groups of young kids dressed in black clothing. In one case a huge house party that had spilled out into the streets. Young kids with black jeans and eye makeup, hundreds of them, in the middle of the day.

It seems to me that the use of the phrase 'emo' has sort of derailed this thread into a discussion of emo culture as it is known in the US, but this may share little more than name or superficial similarities with their mexican cousins.

The theme here does seem to be provoking that odd human hate of the 'other' especially when that other is part of some identifiable group. A kid in one of the video interviews basically says "I have no problems with them really. But I hate how they hang out in some place and then it becomes their place. Also, you know, they're a bit feminine."

As a phenomenon, it is of course disheartening but no more so than homophobic violence and intolerance in... San Francisco.
posted by vacapinta at 10:07 PM on March 27

I am extremely disappointed by this thread. Straight out of the box with "oh, those poor emos" and not even one joke about cutting.

Un-favorited, with regret.
posted by dhammond at 10:38 PM on March 27

The Fight: What does it mean and where does it come from? An Essay: Homosapien. A man. He is alone in the universe. A punker. Still a man. He is alone in the universe, but he connects. How? They hit each other. No clearer way to evaluate whether or not you're alive. Now. Complications. A reason to fight. Somebody different. Difference creates dispute. Dispute is a reason to fight. Now, to fight is a reason to feel pain. Life is pain. So to fight with reason is to be alive with reason. Final analysis: To fight, a reason to live. Problems and Contradictions: I am an anarchist. I believe that there should be no rules, only chaos. Fighting appears to be chaos. And when we slam in the pit a show it is. But when we fight for a reason, like rednecks, there's a system, we fight for what we stand for, chaos. Fighting is a structure, fighting is to establish power, power is government and government is not anarchy. Government is war and war is fighting. The circle goes like this: our redneck skirmishes are cheap perversions of conventional warfare. War implies extreme government because wars are fought to enforce rules or ideals, even freedom. But other people ideals forced on someone else, even if it is something like freedom, is still a rule; not anarchy. This contradiction was becoming clear to me in the fall of '85. Even as early as my first party, "Why did I love to fight?" I framed it, but still, I don't understand it. It goes against my beliefs as a true anarchist. But there it was. Competition, fighting, capitalism, government, THE SYSTEM. That's what we did. It's what we always did. Rednecks kicked the shit out of punks, punks kicked the shit out of mods, mods kicked the shit out of skinheads, skinheads took out the heavy metal guys, and the heavy metal guys beat the living shit out of new wavers and the new wavers did nothing. What was the point? Final summation? None.

-SLC Punk
posted by craven_morhead at 7:58 AM on March 28

dhammond:

Now they don't have to cut themselves so they can feel feelings.




happy?
posted by craven_morhead at 8:00 AM on March 28