Tony Snow, 1955-2008

July 12, 2008 8:06 AM

Former White House spokesman Tony Snow developed colon cancer in February 2005 thanks to having suffered from ulcerative colitis for much of his life; he died today from that ailment. Snow was a "Fox News Sunday" anchor, a Fox News Channel political analyst, a guest host for Rush Limbaugh's radio program, the host of Fox News Radio's "The Tony Snow Show", and a NPR commentator. Chief of Staff Josh Bolten told staffers that unless they could commit to staying the full remainder of Bush's term, they should leave by Labor Day 2007, prompting Snow's resignation (due to what he said were financial reasons), where he was succeeded by Dana Perino. He played the guitar, saxophone and flute and was in a band called Beats Workin'. "Bush's wavering conservatism has become an active concern among Republicans, who wish he would stop cowering under the bed and start fighting back against the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Wilson," said Snow in a column. "The newly passive George Bush has become something of an embarrassment."
posted by WCityMike (125 comments total)

On one hand, he was a person. On the other hand, he was a twisted shill for a corrupt administration.

To snark or not to snark . . . ?
posted by John of Michigan at 8:13 AM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]

Oh, by all means, commence with the snark.

You know we will anyway.
posted by djeo at 8:16 AM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

He was a person.

He led his life.

He died.

He was not particularly selfless and probably didn't leave the world any better than he found it.

There are many other people who led their own lives. Many of them died too. I fail to see how his death is any more noteworthy than any other.
posted by taojones at 8:24 AM on July 12, 2008

Colon cancer's gotta be a tough way to go.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:24 AM on July 12, 2008

As much as I disliked him, he was very good at his job and I didn't wish for him to die of cancer. Specifically, I mean. I would have been ok with heart failure or an accident.
posted by stavrogin at 8:25 AM on July 12, 2008 [11 favorites]

He's not alone: the American people will have potentially fatal asshole problems until January 2009.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:26 AM on July 12, 2008 [31 favorites]

I didn't like Tony Snow. But colon cancer is a hell of a way to die, and as much as I thought his actions were in most cases despicable, I can nevertheless say that he shouldn't have had to die like that. Those people whose actions I detest, I want justice enacted against them for their crimes, but there's a difference between justice and a horrid death.
posted by WCityMike at 8:28 AM on July 12, 2008 [12 favorites]

He was well loved by the press he fed bullshit too day after day. Kind of a weird relationship, and I expect all kinds of hagiography in the media for the next few days. In fact, my initial reaction to this was "wow, that's sad" due to all the love the press corps heaped on the guy while he was still alive.
posted by delmoi at 8:28 AM on July 12, 2008

I always wondered what kind of person would find an annual salary of $168,000 insufficient. Someone with a serious habit of some sort, perhaps? (coke, hookers, real estate, etc)

I mean, even once I've converted that into pounds sterling it still looks OK to me. It's the little things like this that make the Republicans look more grasping.

Still, let's not all pile onto the dead. There's plenty of living evil to go after instead.
posted by imperium at 8:28 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

And that's not bad flute-playing.

I'm ... Tony Snow?
posted by WCityMike at 8:29 AM on July 12, 2008

Person? I heard somewhere that it was hydraulic fluid in that android skeleton.
posted by danep at 8:30 AM on July 12, 2008

You stay classy, Metafilter.
posted by WCityMike at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2008 [12 favorites]

Personally, I just think it was amazing that he was able to do so much even though he had ulcerative colitis.
posted by melissam at 8:33 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Given the amount of shit the man put out, death by colon cancer doesn't surprise me in the least.

I have sympathy for the pain he went through while dying. I have no sympathy for the pain he caused others while living.
posted by FormlessOne at 8:33 AM on July 12, 2008 [6 favorites]

While I don't want to start and/or participate in a burgeoning flame war I just want to point out that regardless of being a shill for a corrupt and probably criminal administration this guy was a human being just like you and me. A slow and painful death is not something that I wish on anyone and abstracting away the fact that his suffering is the same as anyone else's by focusing on what he chose to do for a career is something I would hope we could be more civilized than to stoop to.
posted by zennoshinjou at 8:38 AM on July 12, 2008 [5 favorites]

.
posted by caddis at 8:39 AM on July 12, 2008

Classy ain't the least of it

This man was the ultimate shill for the ultimate worst US presidential regimes ever I feel for him like I felt for Jessie Helms Bury him deep, and pour concrete on the casket so he can't return

He isn't worthy of a p*riod, not even as punctuation
posted by nevercalm at 8:39 AM on July 12, 2008

I'm a bit torn over this. This guy did us no favors, that's for sure. At the same time, he had ulcerative colitis, so what choice did have but to be a republican?
posted by troybob at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

. (inherent worth and dignity of every person and such)
posted by octothorpe at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2008

Nothing against Tony Snow as a human being, but why does he get the big picture headline over at CNN and MSNBC, and CBS news while Dr. Debakey's death is relegated to side link?

Snow was relatively young, his death seems to have been unexpected, and he held a highly visible political job, so I can understand why his death headline news, but I thought prominency of one's obituary was determined by a combination of both fame and accomplishments, and DeBakey wins in both departments. I mean, no offense, but how many lives did Snow save?

I can understand Fox News giving Snow the major headline treatment since he worked for them, but their website seems to be one of the biggest offenders--you have to scroll down the page to find out that DeBakey died. (Same goes for you, Washington Post--what the hell?)

Oh well, at least the New York Times and Houston Chronicle have their priorities straight.
posted by saslett at 8:46 AM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

Shilling, no matter how vile, doesn't overrule my sorrow for the way cancer kills. I'm sorry for the man and his family.
posted by Skorgu at 8:49 AM on July 12, 2008

.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2008

For all the love Metafilter showed Fred Rogers in his obituary thread, it's obvious reading the comments here that many of you haven't absorbed the lessons he taught.
posted by MegoSteve at 8:51 AM on July 12, 2008 [31 favorites]

More evil men should die this ironically.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:51 AM on July 12, 2008

I'm sorry for the man and his family.

Especially his three kids -- all under the age of 15.

From the NYT article: "Dr. Michael E. DeBakey's innovative heart and blood vessel operations made him one of America’s most influential doctors. He performed more than 60,000 operations." Wow.
posted by ericb at 8:51 AM on July 12, 2008

...start fighting back against the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Wilson

Doesn't fighting back imply there has been some fighting? The process I've been watching is

1) Bush makes request
2) Democrats fulfill request
3) ???
4) AMERICA LOSES!!!
posted by DU at 8:52 AM on July 12, 2008 [10 favorites]

I'm a bit torn over this. This guy did us no favors, that's for sure. At the same time, he had ulcerative colitis, so what choice did have but to be a republican?

Yeah because if he was poor, with the lack of universal healthcare, he probably would have died years ago.
posted by delmoi at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Shilling, no matter how vile, doesn't overrule my sorrow for the way cancer kills. I'm sorry for the man and his family.
posted by Skorgu

Too bad he (and Bush) chose to shill for invading Iraq instead of the American Cancer Society.
posted by notreally at 8:58 AM on July 12, 2008

They say things like this happen in threes. So I'm pretty much hoping that Cheney's defibrillator has lost its charge.

I have no problem with people who err on the side of generosity and express appropriate sympathies. But those who don't do this have a valid perspective as well. This guy not only played along, but he was a willing cheerleader in a series of corruptions that has killed, often painfully, a lot of people. As with the passing of Jesse Helms, I think it's legitimate to remind the living that we have no obligation at times like this, in the name of decency, to whitewash one's inhumane irresponsibilities.
posted by troybob at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

Mr Snow's politics were polar opposite of mine but IMV he was the "good" conservative, able to construct an honest argument.

He won't be missed by me, other than the place he held holding off the more wacked members of his political tribe.
posted by yort at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2008

.
posted by MarshallPoe at 9:05 AM on July 12, 2008

I agree with the idea that we should be objective in viewing a person's life and that we are under no obligation to see them as anything but what they were. In my mind however spewing vitriol and being honest in our assessment of the totality of a persons life are different things.
posted by zennoshinjou at 9:06 AM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

. ??!?? seriously?

Since no post had been made well after the news, I assumed/hoped none would.
posted by gman at 9:07 AM on July 12, 2008

R.I.P., Tony Snow. Here's how he got his job at the Rev. Moon's Washington Times, from my book.


On April 14, 1987, opinion editor Bill Cheshire walked into the office of
[editor and acid-tongued Washington man of mystery] Arnaud de Borchgrave, with a secretary and three editorialists, each carrying letters that read, “I hereby resign . . . because of the breach of certain agreements of which you are well-aware.”

Managing editor Josette Sheeran, a high-ranking member of the Moon sect and the paper’s liaison to the True Father and publisher, turned pale. When the first editor and CEO, Jim Whelan, had quit in 1984, it was easy to explain as a personality clash. But five people leaving? “They thought we would be dutiful little conservatives and do what we were told,” says editorialist John Seiler, the last to hand in his badge. “Good riddance,” he remembers de Borchgrave shouting after him.

Essayist Sam Francis had asked them to reconsider. “I figured all along the Moonies were running the show,” Seiler recalls his saying, but why not play along, since the church was paying for everything?

Cheshire, for one, had tired of the game. The last straw: After they wrote a piece
denouncing the dictator of South Korea—whose 1980 crackdown had
killed 207 democracy protesters—the count said, “Let me check this out
upstairs.” He dropped in on San Kook Han, a Moonist officer and former
South Korean government man, then returned downstairs convinced they had
to spin the op-ed 180 degrees, pro-dictator, in keeping with the Unfication Church's
ties to the Korean Right. (De Borchgrave denies this account of events.)

Editor Wesley Pruden called the reasons for the exodus “fanciful” and
ran a replacement op-ed, taking sides against the reformers, who would
be redeemed the next year with Seoul’s move to democracy (and 1996
death penalty for the dictator in question, Chun Doo-hwan, who received
clemency in the name of national healing). The Washington Times, how-
ever, justified the crackdown by asking Americans to imagine that the
United States had been invaded by Communists. If so, “Americans might
appreciate more the Damoclean sword under which South Koreans ha-
bitually live.”

Later Cheshire said of his old workplace, the Times, “No one appears
to care very much that the American political institutions have been sub-
verted by foreign interests.” After he left the paper, a journalist named
Tony Snow, thirty-two, considered taking the job. One of the departed
writers, John Seiler, warned Snow the newsroom was under the influence
of the Reverend Moon. Reportedly, Snow listened, smiled, and became
opinion page editor between 1987 and 1990. He then became George W.
Bush’s press secretary.
posted by johngoren at 9:07 AM on July 12, 2008 [9 favorites]

As much as I despised Mr. Snow for his position, I had to admire him for what he went through as a person, and I sympathize for his family.

Youtube moment: Tony caught Martha Raddatz ridin' dirty.

.
posted by mrbill at 9:08 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Fred Rogers and Jesus might agree about loving thy neighbor, but at least Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple.

Beyond the baseline "I didn't wish a painful prolonged death on the guy", Tony Snow really doesn't get any sympathy from me.
posted by anthill at 9:13 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Here's some . . . . . s that might be more worthy of sympathy.
posted by anthill at 9:19 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

I was sad to hear of his death.
posted by callmejay at 9:20 AM on July 12, 2008

It takes some impressive stones to be in such a public role with the sorts of chronic illnesses he faced. I'd be hard pressed to come up with too many other conditions that rival the misery of inflammatory bowel disease. Really, at this point, the role of press liason is such a joke and such a complete and obvious platform for spewing lies and bullshit you almost have to wonder why anyone still demonizes people in the role. It's not worth the effort. I'm more embarrassed for the press corp that considers it worth their time to show up to be spoon-fed condescending bullshit for days on end.
posted by docpops at 9:25 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

They say things like this happen in threes. So I'm pretty much hoping that Cheney's defibrillator has lost its charge.

Just this morning -- At checkup, Cheney's cardiac status is stable.
posted by ericb at 9:29 AM on July 12, 2008

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by wfrgms at 9:35 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry for his family. And it looked like he struggled pretty hard to fight the cancer over the last few years.

But he was a slick, professional liar and a chief enabler of an evil administration, who held odious political views of his own, unless he was a total cynic and just pretending to believe some of the things he said as a "commentator" on Fox News in his last years. That doesn't mean I'm glad he's dead or that I ever wished anything bad upon him. It does mean I don't care enough about his death to want to see it on the front page of Metafilter, or the LA Times, or anywhere else.

But once again, here go the media, celebrating the life of someone just because they were famous and died and a member of the media club -- shades of Tim Russert, whose death was treated like he was a former president who had ended a world war. Snow is no more deserving of the encomia now dominating the news than I am. He was famous for being on TV, not for accomplishing anything personal of great note. His death is sad, and deserves being noted, but not treated like a national day of mourning. The death of any child is more tragic.

Do you think Fox will mount the Full Russert (TM) for Snow?

Do advertising dollars follow sentimental "news" coverage?

Do press secretaries lie more than half the time they are on camera?

Is Bush a war criminal?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

.
posted by fourcheesemac at 9:49 AM on July 12, 2008 [11 favorites]

I always wondered what kind of person would find an annual salary of $168,000 insufficient.

Aside from himself being a very sick man, I believe one of his children had some medical problems as well. What I will always remember about Snow is how he all but flat-out stated that the reason he was leaving the White House was because the government simply wouldn't provide him enough to take care of himself and his family.

I don't wish he suffered any pain in his death, but I would be eternally happy knowing among his final thoughts were even remotely grasping the irony of that.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:52 AM on July 12, 2008

Snow took advantage of taxpayer funded health care while continuing to argue against making it available to the rest of us.
posted by robbyrobs at 9:58 AM on July 12, 2008 [10 favorites]

Being personable and suffering a bad exit won't erase his works.

In fact, cloaking the evil in a TV friendly, warm-fuzzy wrapper be be worse than the immediate cognizance of evil you get with one look at O'Reilly.
posted by aiq at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2008

Tony Snow AND Michael DeBakey? Crap, If Jessie helms had held off another 9 days, I would have won the dead pool.
posted by Mcable at 10:09 AM on July 12, 2008

I feel bad for his kids. But I feel worse for all the millions of American citizens he took money to lie to, repeatedly, every day, on behalf of the worst scum of America. We'll all have to deal with the longer consequences of his lying to the press, of controlling the message while the country goes out of control.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:13 AM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

Karma
posted by banished at 10:13 AM on July 12, 2008

You stay classy, Metafilter.

then why the fuck did you post this, because you wanted to break news and you thought nobody knew about Snow being dead?

If you post about somebody's death (I mean, someone whose death is newsworthy) on a website with 70,000 users, expect some sort of evaluation of that person's career. If you simply want a long endless series of dots, post it to your own blog and proceed to spam it with many "." comments, and enjoy your superior "class".
posted by matteo at 10:18 AM on July 12, 2008 [9 favorites]

Are you really on the good side if you're cheering on the death of your enemies?
posted by smackfu at 10:18 AM on July 12, 2008 [8 favorites]

No, he wasn't 'a human being, just like you and me.' He was a piece of dogshit. He participated in the rape of two countries (Iraq and US), with one of those rapes involving torture, for kicks; he participated to the end of his days in the lies that have led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of lives displaced and disordered, all in the name of oil companies raping a foreign country, and in the military industrial complex raping ours. He wasn't dumb, he knew that his entire life was a lie, that every word he spoke was a lie -- I don't know how human being can carry that on to the grave. He was a war criminal, every bit as bad as any of the pieces of dogshit tried at Nuremberg. I hope he did suffer horribly, the only reason I'm sorry that he's dead is that he's not suffering horribly at this moment. I feel for him -- and for Cheney and all the rest -- the same as I feel for any rape-torturer who smirkingly justify their horrific behavior even as their victim howls in agony, burning, white-hot poker applied to their genitals -- that is Iraqs day today, and yesterday. A good day for the planet. Fuck you, Tony Snow.
posted by dancestoblue at 10:28 AM on July 12, 2008 [8 favorites]

expect some sort of evaluation of that person's career

There's a difference between evaluating someone's career and making smugly satisfied jokes about the ironic appropriateness of their manner of death.
posted by yoink at 10:33 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

He was no Jesse Helms, so he gets a dot.

dot
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:33 AM on July 12, 2008

*
posted by jtron at 10:36 AM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]

Fuck. I thought that I had seen the worst of MeFi in other Obit threads, but this takes the cake.

Snow was a good guy -- smart, articulate, passionate about what he believed in, a good family man, and lived his life to the fullest despite a debilitating disease.

A good guy. This is sad.
posted by davidmsc at 10:36 AM on July 12, 2008

Smackfu -

"Are you really on the good side if you're cheering on the death of your enemies?"

I think the reaction tells a lot more about the person making it, myself. Can't see much point in hating someone who's dead - it doesn't hurt them and just gets you high blood pressure.
posted by JB71 at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

Has anyone else ever noticed how White House Press Secretaries seem to age about a billion times faster than normal people? That must be a hell of a job. They are basically paid liars, and it can't be easy.

Perino:
1/23/2007 - 7/03/2008

Snow:
5/26/2006 - 9/11/2007

McClellan
11/10/2004 - 4/26/2006

Hmm... ok, never mind. These examples aren't holding up as well as I thought they would. Scott looks almost the same.. and Ari Fleischer must be perserved in wax.
posted by xorry at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2008

abstracting away the fact that his suffering is the same as anyone else's

No, I'm going to say that there are a lot of people whose suffering is worse than his, including those without healthcare, running water, or freedom from a terrifying and dehumanizing military occupation.
posted by sondrialiac at 10:42 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

His work resulted in more people dying of the same disease he fell to. There's an irony in that.

He worked his entire life to perpetuate and expand a system of aristocracy guaranteed to ensure that more people died from diseases like his and were denied the health care he got.

I won't wish death by colon cancer on anyone, not even him. But neither will I waste my sympathy on the enemy. No dot.
posted by sotonohito at 10:42 AM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

He participated in the rape of two countries (Iraq and US), with one of those rapes involving torture

...

I hope he did suffer horribly, the only reason I'm sorry that he's dead is that he's not suffering horribly at this moment.

...

I feel for him -- and for Cheney and all the rest -- the same as I feel for any rape-torturer who smirkingly justify their horrific behavior even as their victim howls in agony, burning, white-hot poker applied to their genitals -- that is Iraqs day today, and yesterday.

So..... are you for or against torture?
posted by the other side at 10:45 AM on July 12, 2008 [5 favorites]

If you think Snow is being mistreated, please take it to Metatalk. Like, now. Stop shitting in the thread. Thanks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:48 AM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

colon cancer is a hell of a way to go, so part of me wants to feel bad for his passing. The larger part, however, hopes he is locked in an eternal 69 with Jesse Helms, in a very warm place.
posted by bashos_frog at 10:56 AM on July 12, 2008

Are you really on the good side if you're cheering on the death of your enemies?
posted by smackfu at 10:18 AM on July 12

Yes, because the evil side murders their enemies. We just wait patiently for nature to take its course.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:03 AM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]

Some say that Abraham Lincoln was a hero, others point to Harriet Tubman, Martin Luthor King, Geronimo, Patrick Henry and George Washington. But Tony Snow proved himself to be a true American hero in a class above all of them. A man who believed that telling the truth, the whole truth, painful though it may be for the public to hear, was the most important part of being the public spokesman for what might be the most transparent and law-abiding government in the history of North America. When Tony Snow walked up to the podium, you knew that he wasn't going to lie to you, you knew that he wasn't going to try and play up minor political backstabbing in order to make President George Walker Bush, the 43rd President of the United States of America look good, no, you knew it was because Tony Snow was a man of honor, a man who wanted peace and civility to reign upon the earth.

God Bless You, Mr. Snow. Those of us who honor and cherish your contributions at Fox News to contributing truth and honesty to the American people, and those of us who particularly remember your steadfast support of Mr. Lewis "Scooter" Libby during his time of unfair persecution will always keep you in our thoughts and prayers. Enjoy the rewards of Heaven; you've deserved them, Tony.
posted by cmonkey at 11:05 AM on July 12, 2008 [8 favorites]

Wait - if the evil side murders their enemies...

And Bushco is teh evil...

...

Or is he Diet Coke evil?
posted by JB71 at 11:06 AM on July 12, 2008

I have a hard time with the actions of a man that once tried to explain away the vacation of the Iraqi government because, you know, it's really hot in Iraq. And he takes a shot at Congress while doing it.

Q Is the Iraqi government and the Iraqi parliament taking the month of August off?

MR. SNOW: Probably, yes. Just not --

Q They're taking the entire month of August off, before the September deadline?

MR. SNOW: It looks like they may, yes. Just like the U.S. Congress is.

Q Have you tried to talk them out of that?

MR. SNOW: You know, it's 130 degrees in Baghdad in August, I'll pass on your recommendation.

Q Well, Tony, Tony, I'm sorry, that's -- you know -- I mean, there are a lot of things that happen by September and it's 130 degrees for the U.S. military also on the ground --

MR. SNOW: You know, that's a good point. And it's 130 degrees for the Iraqi military. The Iraqis, you know, I'll let them -- my understanding is that at this juncture they're going to take August off, but, you know, they may change their minds.

Q But have you tried to convince them not to?. Does the U.S. government pressure them not to, because then the September deadline --

MR. SNOW: Again, I'm not going to -- you know, I'm just not -- I'm not getting into the -- the Iraqis understand the importance. It's not a September deadline, it's a September report. I think it's very important, in an age where everybody wants to create a sense of, sort of, finishing up on a deadline -- it's a report, it is not a deadline. It is a report that will, in fact, measure progress --

Q It's a pretty important report --

MR. SNOW: It is a very -- it's a very important --

Q (Inaudible.) I mean, a month they're not working.

MR. SNOW: Sheryl, will you let me answer Martha's questions first? And then Helen is next, and then I'll call on you.

Now, where were we, because --

Q We were a month off, we have --

MR. SNOW: Okay, so what you're saying -- yes --

Q -- 130 degrees for the Iraqi parliament, so they need a month off, even though it's 130 degrees for U.S. soldiers.

That said, my uncle, the man I'm named after, also died of colon and liver cancer after having spent years battling ulcerative colitis. Like Snow, my uncle left behind three children, one of them a teenaged boy that just adored his father.

On Reagan's last day in office, the comic strip Doonesbury didn't take a parting shot at him, saying you get "free passage" out of Washington.

I should hope that guys like Snow and my uncle get the same free passage.

Bush and Cheney? Not so much.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:31 AM on July 12, 2008

cmonkey's irony is deadlier than cancer.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:31 AM on July 12, 2008

I opened this thread after seeing the news hoping that I could disprove my dad who thinks liberals are all a bunch of jerks who cheer at the death of anyone who disagrees with them politically.

Never mind. You guys are all a bunch of assholes.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:50 AM on July 12, 2008

.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:01 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Shakes, You'll Just just have to find another way to disprove your dad.
posted by longsleeves at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2008

Okay, yes he was a tool and a fool. For some reason I always kind of liked him. The same way I liked Anna Nicole Smith. He was a character, at least. And I don't think he was completely evil.
posted by bukharin at 12:07 PM on July 12, 2008

Classy? This is par for the course, folks. I know people who come here just for obitfilter so they can play in the mud. So you disagreed with his politics. Whether you believe in an afterlife or not, your comments just make you look bad. He's either somewhere else, or he's nowhere else. But you're here still here. Looking really classy.
posted by Avenger50 at 12:11 PM on July 12, 2008

I opened this thread after seeing the news hoping that I could disprove my dad who thinks liberals are all a bunch of jerks who cheer at the death of anyone who disagrees with them politically.

I don't even know if he disagrees with me, considering he's wasn't really invested in, you know, being genuine or telling the truth.

For all I know, he was the most liberal man in Washington, D.C. and he just kept it all bottled up deep down inside. Perhaps he kept his beliefs in the same black well where he kept his conscience, his respect for the American people, and the memory of his first kiss.
posted by sondrialiac at 12:12 PM on July 12, 2008

.

Thoughts and prayers to his wife and young children.
posted by pearlybob at 12:13 PM on July 12, 2008

Never mind. You guys are all a bunch of assholes.

Don't be a jerk. Take your problem to Metatalk.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:15 PM on July 12, 2008

Don't be a jerk. Take your problem to Metatalk.

So wait, the jerks puking venom on a dead man are okay to go, but the jerks calling out the jerks aren't? Are they okay to just carry on? Or are you restricting the free speech of the jerks you don't agree with? How about we just let everyone be a jerk wherever they want?

I love when MetaFilter starts compartmentalizing the jerks.
posted by Avenger50 at 12:23 PM on July 12, 2008 [4 favorites]

Has anyone else ever noticed how White House Press Secretaries seem to age about a billion times faster than normal people? That must be a hell of a job. They are basically paid liars, and it can't be easy.

Perino:
1/23/2007 - 7/03/2008

Oh come on, she's just a little disheveled and is furrowing her brow in the second picture.
posted by delmoi at 12:23 PM on July 12, 2008

I think we should just start calling MetaTalk ObitTalk.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:24 PM on July 12, 2008

Or are you restricting the free speech of the jerks you don't agree with?

No, but if you want to be a jerk, go be a jerk in Metatalk.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:34 PM on July 12, 2008

Don't be a jerk. Take your problem to Metatalk.

This will change the situation how, exactly?
posted by shakespeherian at 12:37 PM on July 12, 2008

This will change the situation how, exactly?

Every time we have this discussion, the mods have been pretty clear that people are free to criticize the subject of the obit so long as the criticism is substantive. With a couple exceptions, it's been about the scope and hypocrisy of Snow's work in the White House.

If you're here to go after other users on the site on a personal level which has nothing to do with Tony Snow or his work, take it to Metatalk, just like everyone else.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:47 PM on July 12, 2008

This will change the situation how, exactly?

So we can get back to the task at hand and slag an evil man who died in a way I wouldn't wish on anything but my worst enemies. Tony Snow was not one of those enemies and I wish that he had died in a less unpleasant manner.

On preview: Blazecock says it better.
posted by djeo at 12:50 PM on July 12, 2008

If you're here to go after other users on the site on a personal level which has nothing to do with Tony Snow or his work, take it to Metatalk, just like everyone else.

*sigh*

I'm not going after other users on the site on a personal level. I'm merely expressing my weariness with the kind of vitriol and grave-spitting that has little to do with substantive criticism of Snow but rather uses lite-criticism of him as an excuse to delight in the misfortunes of one's enemies.

God knows I wasn't a fan of Tony Snow, but death by colon cancer is just sad, not ironic or hilarious.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:00 PM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

Oh come on, she's just a little disheveled and is furrowing her brow in the second picture.
posted by delmoi at 3:23 PM on July 12 [+] [!]

I agree.. reality didn't seem to match my imagination.
posted by xorry at 1:04 PM on July 12, 2008

.


Keith Olbermann is pretty much unsurpassed in snarkiness and no one could accuse him of being a right wing shill. Even he had good things to say about Tony Snow today.
posted by J.R. Benedict at 1:12 PM on July 12, 2008

When you go into high-level politics, when you seek power over others, you make it fair game for people to spit on your grave. It is the natural and just price for that power, and don't think there's a soul in high office that doesn't have it coming from somebody.

However I can't muster the hate for PR flacks. Snow, Fleischer, whoever, they're just faces. I don't care about their lives, and I can't be more than indifferent about their passing.
posted by furiousthought at 1:15 PM on July 12, 2008

When you go into high-level politics, when you seek power over others, you make it fair game for people to spit on your grave

I think the point that some of us are trying to make here is that regardless of who you are or what you do its just not humanly decent to be this excessively negative about a fellow person. Sure he was part of a terrible government and sure shilling for them is pretty uncool- no one questions that. I just get uncomfortable when people gleefully bask in another person and their loved one's misery and pain.
posted by zennoshinjou at 1:38 PM on July 12, 2008

I care so little about his passing I'm not posting in his obit thread.

ah, shit...
posted by marxchivist at 1:51 PM on July 12, 2008

Keith Olbermann is pretty much unsurpassed in snarkiness and no one could accuse him of being a right wing shill. Even he had good things to say about Tony Snow today.

because Snow was a member of Olbermann's club -- the millionaire media people who always, always cover each other's asses, it's a bipartisan club. they look after each other in order to defend their lifestyle. after all, the big news in today's US media is the death of some TV guy who also wrote speeches for Bush's father and who was GWB's spokesman for a short while. DeBakey's death is a footnote, instead -- I mean, these are the priorities of the "liberal media", Snow over DeBakey (lol). if Olbermann croaks, you can rest assured that some "conservative" in the club will say nice things about him, it's all part of the game.

but then, Tim Russert's death, for the club members, was only slightly less important than 9/11, judging by their wall-to-wall coverage, corny eulogies and general schmaltz.


I'm not going after other users on the site on a personal level.

no, besides calling all of them assholes, no, you didn't (PS given that your dad seems to think that liberaks are meanies, unlike classy, nice conservatives, well, I have to break the news that your dad's an asshole, too).

anyway: what I find hilarious about American liberals is that they always seem eager not simply to turn the other cheek -- normal people have only two cheeks, on their faces at least, after all -- but liberals seem to have infinite cheeks to turn, and happily provide them to right wingers to slap around.

telling the truth about Helms, or Snow, is anathema, because once they're dead, for liberals all people are uniformly wonderful, Helms and DeBakey and Snow, all great men, Nixon and MLK, Roy Cohn and Thurgood Marshall, all great, all deserving of a little Internet tear. It's a bizarre, politically correct compulsion that, to say the least, hasn't brought many good things to American liberals, who in the last 45 years impress only for their massively powerlessness even their Messiah threw them under the bus now, he likes the Telcom amnesty much more than he likes his liberals, but one does not want to derail.

lying about dead scumbags, pretending they were great, and keep attacking those who point out that water is wet? it's all good -- that dot is about the size of your brain.
posted by matteo at 1:54 PM on July 12, 2008 [14 favorites]

The snark is just a defense against the pain. We all miss Herman Munster.
posted by SPrintF at 2:05 PM on July 12, 2008

I would hardly call "I wish he wasn't dead so he could still be suffering" a substantive critique.

Maybe the people saying things like that truly believe them, but I personally think it's despicable to cheer at this man's death. He was born and was once a kid, just like you were. He had parents, kids, friends, neighbours, loved ones -- just like you. He suffered from a terrible, painful, embarrassing illness and then died from another terrible illness that we should have cured by now.

No one is saying he was a great and noble and admirable man, but simply that he was a human being. If you honestly believe that being a $168,000-per-year PR flak for an administration that your country elected makes this man less than human, well, I really have little remaining faith that the US will ever pull itself out of its self-inflicted mire. How do you have the gall to expect people to respect you if you can't even have the respect for human life to resist spitting on the grave of a dead man.
posted by loiseau at 2:25 PM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

because Snow was a member of Olbermann's club -- the millionaire media people who always, always cover each other's asses, it's a bipartisan club. they look after each other in order to defend their lifestyle.

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about. Olbermann uses his position on the most popular medium in America to launch daily excoriating attacks against Bush. He also had something nice to say about Tony Snow.

Is Olbermann an angel? No. Does he have a vested interest in preserving his millionaire lifestyle? Sure. But this kind of hugely oversimplified conspiracy-theory thinking is tedious and wrong. And I'm tempted to suggest that it may have done more damage to the left-liberal cause in recent years than the trait you identify as having done so, which seems to amount to nothing more than making some effort to think the best of people where possible.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 2:26 PM on July 12, 2008 [3 favorites]

telling the truth about Helms, or Snow, is anathema, because once they're dead, for liberals all people are uniformly wonderful, Helms and DeBakey and Snow, all great men, Nixon and MLK, Roy Cohn and Thurgood Marshall, all great, all deserving of a little Internet tear.

No one here is calling anyone great. If you honestly think there's only two options— calling someone great vs. saying you think their death is amusing— you have a very narrow concept of the world.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:14 PM on July 12, 2008

.
posted by brundlefly at 3:19 PM on July 12, 2008

I always cringe a bit when I see that a well-known right-winger has died, because I know I'll get to see MetaFilter at its most gleefully sadistic.

These people are fucks, but that doesn't mean we have to lower ourselves to their level.
posted by brundlefly at 3:24 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

In the best of us, there is a difference between the message and the messenger, and Tony Snow epitomized that.

I agree with Keef 100% here. He was a classy guy delivering some awful propaganda but I got the feeling that he wasn't completely buying into this bullshit (unlike Dana Perino, who excels at being deliberately disingenous).
posted by porn in the woods at 3:27 PM on July 12, 2008

He was a mouthpiece for evil and incompetence and I hate him for it yet I feel compassion for him because he suffered. I hate it when people like Tony Snow force me to feel two opposing things at once. With Jesse Helms it was so friggin easy -- hated him.
posted by hojoki at 3:44 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

If you honestly believe that being a $168,000-per-year PR flak for an administration that your country elected makes this man less than human, well, I really have little remaining faith that the US will ever pull itself out of its self-inflicted mire.

How many times do we have to say it? We didn't elect them, either time. They stole it both times. We're just as sorry as you are about them, but we didn't vote them in.
posted by interrobang at 3:49 PM on July 12, 2008

I wouldn't wish colon cancer on my worst enemy. To make a long story short, Tony Snow was not my worst enemy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:52 PM on July 12, 2008

I think the point that some of us are trying to make here is that regardless of who you are or what you do its just not humanly decent to be this excessively negative about a fellow person.

No. Some people have it coming. Too few of them remotely get it. Yes, they are fully human beings, yes, they have mothers too, and yes, what they have done in this life means they deserve the malice of those below their station. And, like I said, Snow was just a flack and a messenger, and I do not bear him more animus than most any other ad man who may have passed this day. Most of his bosses will fully deserve all the hate they get.
posted by furiousthought at 3:52 PM on July 12, 2008

Before he died, Lee Atwater had the grace to (at least pretend to) be sorry for the shitty things he did. If members of the current administration continue to insist on dying, then they should take a lesson from Mr. Atwater.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:53 PM on July 12, 2008

Colon cancer's gotta be a tough way to go.

It's fucking dire. Everyone reading this who is over 45 should get a test. It's worth it.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:07 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

This post should've been deleted within seconds after its posting.

(1) Snow was neither important enough nor talented enough to warrant an obit thread here. He was just another cog in the Bush/Cheney Propaganda machine. Rush, Coulter & O'Reilly would rate an obit thread, but if Steve Doocy got hit by a bus? ORLY?

(2) It upstages the post immediately before it, covering the death of the infinitely more worthy Dr. Michael Debakey.

(3) It was pure snark-bait by WCityMike even to the inclusion of a quote that has to be the biggest bald-faced lie of 2008:
"Bush's wavering conservatism has become an active concern among Republicans, who wish he would stop cowering under the bed and start fighting back against the likes of Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Wilson," said Snow in a column. "The newly passive George Bush has become something of an embarrassment."
It was stunning, after that, that one MeFite, tried to defend Snow's humanity by writing "he was the "good" conservative, able to construct an honest argument." BULL SHIT.

Colon cancer is a terrible way to die. So is hanging, but I don't regret the death of Sadaam Hussein.

And, yes I am taking it to MetaTalk. With these same words. Cut and paste, baby.
posted by wendell at 4:27 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

Keith Olbermann is pretty much unsurpassed in snarkiness and no one could accuse him of being a right wing shill. Even he had good things to say about Tony Snow today.

Well, matteo is right that he was a part of their "club" (and we are not), but also what the hell is he going to do? The guy is a high-profile media person, he could never get away with talking shit about a member of their "club" after they died. He'd never be able to book another high-profile guest, it would pretty much be the end of his carrier. So that's not really indicative of much.
posted by delmoi at 4:45 PM on July 12, 2008

How many times do we have to say it? We didn't elect them, either time. They stole it both times. We're just as sorry as you are about them, but we didn't vote them in.

The case for theft in 2004 is a little weak. There were certainly shenanigans going on in Ohio, but the margin was too wide.
posted by delmoi at 4:50 PM on July 12, 2008

Good, fuck that guy. Hopefully the rest of these assholes will die a slow, painful death for what they've done to this country.
posted by puke & cry at 5:32 PM on July 12, 2008

Wow. It's been a while since I looked at an ObitFilter thread. I don't recall them being so vitriolic. The hate for the Bush gang certainly has grown over the years.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:05 PM on July 12, 2008

I guess thats what happens when you talk shit. I mean that's what happens when you talk out of your ass a bunch.
I mean, it sucks to have colon cancer, but when your job is to spew shit for the president, and he is the anti-midas, to where everything he touches turns to shit, then...
What do you expect?

Sorry Tony, but you damn near asked for it.
posted by Balisong at 7:06 PM on July 12, 2008

I mean, he was a wonderful human being who was a wonderful father and only spoke the truth about everything.
posted by Balisong at 7:51 PM on July 12, 2008

Some say that Abraham Lincoln was a hero, others point to Harriet Tubman, Martin Luthor King, Geronimo, Patrick Henry and George Washington. But Tony Snow proved himself to be a true American hero in a class above all of them. . .

Who let Tony's mom in here?
posted by spock at 9:29 PM on July 12, 2008

Hmmm... Born June 1st, 1955, he was almost exactly 4 months older than me. That means if I survive to November 11th, I will have successfully outlived him. But that's after Election Day and the chances of me getting through that without slitting my wrists is dicey at best.
posted by wendell at 9:40 PM on July 12, 2008 [2 favorites]

Geez, you people are brutal. Remind me not to get on your (collective) bad sides and then die!

.
posted by Mael Oui at 9:42 PM on July 12, 2008

If you honestly believe that being a $168,000-per-year PR flak for an administration that your country elected makes this man less than human,

No, I think it's "lying repeatedly to the entire United States so the criminal Bush government could continue the destruction of a country, the murder of hundreds of thousands, and the desecration of the rule of law" that makes us question this man's humanity.

If Charles Manson died, no one here would be saying nice things about him. But the Manson family killed a dozen people. The Republican family has killed tens of thousands of times as many.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:43 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

The case for theft in 2004 is a little weak.

In Palast's "Armed Madhouse," he makes a pretty airtight case that the election was stolen by voter suppression, using numbers taken almost entirely from the government's own websites.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 9:48 PM on July 12, 2008 [1 favorite]

The King is Dead! ... Long Live the King!
posted by Dreamghost at 10:44 PM on July 12, 2008

.
posted by arnicae at 12:12 AM on July 13, 2008

Colon cancer is a horrible way to go. It made my grand-dad literally into a shell of himself, weak, gray, emaciated, hollowed out by surgery, skin-paper thin, turned him into into some sort of immobile chrysalis marooned on the sofa, from which emerged not a butterfly, but a slow and evil Death that kept him just alive enough to smell his own shit and powerlessness as his feces at unpredictable and involuntary internals spurted into the colostomy bag glued to a hole his stomach.

I don't wish that end on anyone, and in thinking of my grand-dad, I have great sympathy for Tony Snow and his family.

That said, Snow abetted and profited from a conspiracy against the American people and war crimes against America's victims, so as an American, I have to ask if his end was as bad as the many men literally tortured and beaten to death on Tony Snow's boss's orders, the circumstances whose deaths Tony Snow helped cover up so that more such victims could be similarly denigrated humiliated and killed.
posted by orthogonality at 1:42 AM on July 13, 2008 [2 favorites]

I can hardly wait for the obit thread for someone who was an integral part of the Bush administration decision-making core. It'll be Hate Overload!
posted by five fresh fish at 8:46 AM on July 13, 2008

It seems like he was unusually positive in his last moments, they report. Usually neo-cons are all scared of the end, and shit. The guy would probably look the other way as I was shoved into a gas chamber, so I just could give a fuck! Later SNOWJOB.
posted by Flex1970 at 9:13 AM on July 13, 2008

There's something rather ironic about that YouTube link being posted in this thread. On second thought, though, perhaps it's appropriate.
posted by the other side at 9:46 AM on July 13, 2008

What a fucking brutal string.

.
posted by VicNebulous at 7:04 AM on July 14, 2008

Westboro planning protest at Tony Snow’s funeral.

"Right-wing preacher Fred Phelps’s Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an 'anti-gay hate group,' is planning to picket former White House press secretary Tony Snow’s funeral. WBC members are upset because Snow was a 'critic' of their operation and 'a high-profile representative of godless Big Media and Big Government.' In the past, WBC has said that 'war casualties are divine revenge for America tolerating gays and lesbians.'"

posted by ericb at 11:29 AM on July 14, 2008

Is there a funeral that those pathetic douchenozzles don't protest? May their bus plunge off a cliff into an ACLU lawyers picnic.
posted by VicNebulous at 12:39 PM on July 14, 2008

Too bad he (and Bush) chose to shill for invading Iraq instead of the American Cancer Society.

Even the Bush administration wouldn't sink to invading the American Cancer Society.
posted by Mo Nickels at 1:32 PM on July 14, 2008 [2 favorites]

VicNebulous: "Is there a funeral that those pathetic douchenozzles don't protest? May their bus plunge off a cliff into an ACLU lawyers picnic."

An ACLU lawyers picnic? Really, the Westboro people are neither conservative nor liberal. They believe that they and only they are going to heaven, and that the rest of us are going to hell ... conservatives and liberals alike.

If I remember correctly from the documentary I watched, the reason why they do what they do is to purposefully evoke reactions of hatred from others, because they essentially believe it is bringing the "Satan in us" to the surface. That's from memory, though, so I might be inaccurate. So they'll protest anywhere they can offend, whether that's Snow's funeral or Wellstone's funeral or what have you.
posted by WCityMike at 8:19 AM on July 16, 2008