Are the end results worth it?
August 13, 2008 8:42 AM Subscribe
There goes the neighborhood! A 10-block area of Helena-West Helena, AR has been put under a 24 hour curfew. Police are patrolling this zone armed with M-16s, shotguns, and Sniper Rifles. From what articles say this 10-block zone has residents fearing for their lives from stray bullets to drug dealers to armed robbery. Anyone in this area is being stopped and questioned by the police. One has to ask, should a local government have the power to restrict civil liberties like this? & If the inch is given here, where is the next mile going to be taken?
This post was deleted for the following reason: You really need to stop and think about how you're presenting your post, and why, before you put it on the front page. This is way too Outrage Editorial. -- cortex
No need for the editorial comments at the end; that's what your own blog is for.
posted by desjardins at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
They tried it in Baltimore and it didn't take. I doubt this will last all that long in Arkansas either.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
One has to answer: yes.
posted by The White Hat at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by The White Hat at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
One has to ask, should a local government have the power to restrict civil liberties like this? & If the inch is given here, where is the next mile going to be taken?
Perhaps one does, but one hasn't got to do it on the front page.
posted by enn at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
Perhaps one does, but one hasn't got to do it on the front page.
posted by enn at 8:48 AM on August 13, 2008
From the first link: A group of men jumped the ex-inmate and fired guns into the air and into homes, mostly after dark, residents and authorities said.
So, did they start beating on the ex-inmate and shooting their guns into the air before the sun set?
posted by NoMich at 8:51 AM on August 13, 2008
So, did they start beating on the ex-inmate and shooting their guns into the air before the sun set?
posted by NoMich at 8:51 AM on August 13, 2008
One has to ask: are our police learning?
posted by yhbc at 8:51 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by yhbc at 8:51 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
If the inch is given here, where is the next mile going to be taken?
I believe it will be taken somewhere on the slippery slope.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:52 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
I believe it will be taken somewhere on the slippery slope.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:52 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Valley said the order would be in place as long as the problem persists or until the city council can come up with a long-term plan at its Aug. 19 meeting.
i'm puzzled as to why they think the problem would persist with heavily armed police occupying the neighborhood - surely a few days of this will have solved the problem? - in fact, wouldn't just the presence of the cops be enough to prevent shoot-outs from going on?
this isn't protecting a neighborhood, it's intimidating it
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
i'm puzzled as to why they think the problem would persist with heavily armed police occupying the neighborhood - surely a few days of this will have solved the problem? - in fact, wouldn't just the presence of the cops be enough to prevent shoot-outs from going on?
this isn't protecting a neighborhood, it's intimidating it
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Frankly, one does not have to ask any such thing. One may decide to go out and run in the fields instead. Or one might prefer to ruminate on the decline of opera in the popular imagination. One might even decide that he or she will spend the day picking one's nose. To recap: one does not get to assert what others need ask.
posted by oddman at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by oddman at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2008
Hey Desjardins,
The mods will have to remove the editorial. Sorry.
Anyways I saw this and thought, "wow". I personally feel that there is no right or wrong answer here. If crime is that bad then yes something has to be done. We live in a society with laws for a reason. It is not fair for people to live in fear while the people they elected to protect them do nothing. However on the tails side of the coin, personal liberties are being restricted here. Any American should be able to walk outside if they choose.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2008
The mods will have to remove the editorial. Sorry.
Anyways I saw this and thought, "wow". I personally feel that there is no right or wrong answer here. If crime is that bad then yes something has to be done. We live in a society with laws for a reason. It is not fair for people to live in fear while the people they elected to protect them do nothing. However on the tails side of the coin, personal liberties are being restricted here. Any American should be able to walk outside if they choose.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:55 AM on August 13, 2008
mayor's law license suspended - sounds like they've got a real winner here
posted by pyramid termite at 8:58 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by pyramid termite at 8:58 AM on August 13, 2008
One wonders if heavy handed editorializing helps or hinders a post. Won't someone think of the ampersands?
posted by fixedgear at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by fixedgear at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2008
Doesn't the Second Amendment apply in Helena, AR? I can't understand why the residents of this area haven't armed themselves, heavily, and already dealt with this crime problem. After all, aren't all the gun rights enthusiasts always telling us about how gun ownership is all about self defense and such?
Seriously, these civilians in this section of Helena don't deserve the police protection if they aren't willing to arm and stand up for themselves. One has to ask why they haven't already formed a militia.
posted by Reverend John at 9:04 AM on August 13, 2008
Seriously, these civilians in this section of Helena don't deserve the police protection if they aren't willing to arm and stand up for themselves. One has to ask why they haven't already formed a militia.
posted by Reverend John at 9:04 AM on August 13, 2008
"Valley said the order would be in place as long as the problem persists or until the city council can come up with a long-term plan at its Aug. 19 meeting."
How bad are things that declaring martial law doesn't step up the monthly meeting?
posted by Mitheral at 9:06 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
How bad are things that declaring martial law doesn't step up the monthly meeting?
posted by Mitheral at 9:06 AM on August 13, 2008 [2 favorites]
Any American should be able to walk outside if they choose.
What about people who are not American?
posted by nowonmai at 9:08 AM on August 13, 2008
What about people who are not American?
posted by nowonmai at 9:08 AM on August 13, 2008
I personally feel that there is no right or wrong answer here.
Well, then, there's nothing to worry about!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:08 AM on August 13, 2008
Well, then, there's nothing to worry about!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:08 AM on August 13, 2008
One has to answer: yes. Perhaps one does, but one hasn't got to do it on the front page. One has to ask: are our police learning? one does not have to ask any such thing. One may decide to go out and run in the fields instead. Or one might prefer to ruminate on the decline of opera in the popular imagination. One might even decide that he or she will spend the day picking one's nose. To recap: One does not get to assert what others need ask. One wonders if heavy handed editorializing helps or hinders a post. Won't someone think of the ampersands?
One closes his eyes and prays for death.
One is the lonliest number.
One....
posted by Debaser626 at 9:10 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
One closes his eyes and prays for death.
One is the lonliest number.
One....
posted by Debaser626 at 9:10 AM on August 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Couldn't he have tried the heavy police presence without the curfews and the searches? That's bullshit. The idea of a decent neighborhood is that people can come out and walk the streets at night.
Rev John, WTF? What do you and your gun do with a crack dealer on your block? Go out and have a gun battle? Civilian guns are for self-defense not law enforcement.
posted by Wood at 9:14 AM on August 13, 2008
Rev John, WTF? What do you and your gun do with a crack dealer on your block? Go out and have a gun battle? Civilian guns are for self-defense not law enforcement.
posted by Wood at 9:14 AM on August 13, 2008
these civilians in this section of Helena don't deserve the police protection if they aren't willing to arm and stand up for themselves.
There is no such thing, for the most part. America is invariably in the ex-felon, gangster camp or in the "honey let's not get involved, close the windows" camp. That kind of problem solving went out the window about 100 years ago.
posted by crapmatic at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2008
There is no such thing, for the most part. America is invariably in the ex-felon, gangster camp or in the "honey let's not get involved, close the windows" camp. That kind of problem solving went out the window about 100 years ago.
posted by crapmatic at 9:20 AM on August 13, 2008
I think this is a pretty brilliant move on the part of the mayor. Of course the order can't stand, it's unconstitutional - but until a ruling is made, the guy gets to seriously hassle the criminals that have taken over the neighborhood. It is ugly? Oh yes. Would I have done it that way? Maybe not. But you have to give the guy some credit for a bold strategy. I love that the only person quoted in the article with a negative comment about the order is a 16 year old.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:27 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:27 AM on August 13, 2008
James Valley is the same brilliant guy who ordered shelter dogs turned loose in nearby national park land and said afterward, "I believe that God created the heavens and earth and in that these animals will be able to fend for themselves, and of course it's going to be survival of the fittest."
posted by blucevalo at 9:31 AM on August 13, 2008
posted by blucevalo at 9:31 AM on August 13, 2008
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posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:45 AM on August 13, 2008