John McCain and democracy
October 11, 2008 3:56 PM   Subscribe

John McCain served on the advisory board to the U.S. chapter of an international group linked to ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America in the 1980s. As the head of the IRI, he helped finance coups against democratic governments in Haiti and Venezuela. Were those governments fairly elected? The 1984 elections were perhaps the freest and fairest in Nicaraguan history. Aristide...won the first free and fair election in the country’s history with 67 percent of the vote. In Venezuela, all of Chavez's victories in elections were monitored and certified by a variety of observers including the Organization of American States, the European Union and the Carter Center.
posted by shetterly (33 comments total) 11 users marked this as a favorite

 
Well at least this time it has more links.
posted by rokusan at 4:02 PM on October 11, 2008


Recursive callout linkage by rokusan...
posted by Mister_A at 4:05 PM on October 11, 2008


Presumably this is what that rokusan was trying to link to.

(Oh, but shetterly posted that one too. I winder if he'll get his first two posts deleted? That would be a record I would think.)
posted by smackfu at 4:14 PM on October 11, 2008


(Ô.ô)
posted by finite at 4:19 PM on October 11, 2008


This seems to be the same material linked without the editorializing. I dig.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:20 PM on October 11, 2008


And, like rokusan said, with more links. He was asked to include more awesome and less editorializing. Like any good writer he made the edits requested of him and reposted.

My comments from the first try:

I used to participate in Usenet discussions with Will back in the day, but I drank a lot then. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.

With the Palin Mob thread going, and all the links in there, I am really starting to wonder if it's even worth trying to change anyone's mind. I mean mine's made up at this point.

Like a friend of mine said, "If Obama turns out to be an advanced scout for a murdering race of robotic reptile cross-breeds I might not vote for him, but I'd still want to hear what the race of robotic reptile cross-breeds had to say before changing my mind."

p.s. I've got Dogland in my iPhone as a PDF (thanks Tor).
posted by cjorgensen at 4:24 PM on October 11, 2008


I'm sure there are plenty of undecided voters reading Metafilter. Right?
posted by smackfu at 4:34 PM on October 11, 2008 [4 favorites]


That's a lot of good info, but I just have a hard time believing that anyone in America gives a flying fuck about South American coups when Henry Kissinger is still walking around free.

On a slightly different note, I think all elections should be certified by a board of disinterested foreigners. Including the United States', if only to see all the nationalist's heads explode.
posted by Caduceus at 4:35 PM on October 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


Is it grindy in here or is it just me?
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 4:38 PM on October 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'd be all for deleting all the vaguely thread-dumpy "didn't we see this before" comments, TBH.
posted by Artw at 4:42 PM on October 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


Wasn't my previous post deleted? Or rather, hidden from other viewers? I'm still figuring out how metafilter works. I hadn't realized that I needed to sound objective when providing links about people who overthrow democratically-elected governments--that's very hard for me, but my favorite quote about writing applies to writing for metafilter, too: ""A writer is someone for whom writing is harder than it is for other people." --Thomas Mann
posted by shetterly at 4:44 PM on October 11, 2008 [7 favorites]


An FPP should never be about your writing. It's about the links.
posted by ryanrs at 4:46 PM on October 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


smackfu, this isn't about undecided voters. I'll provide something about the NDI one of those days. But, so far, it seems like the IRI is more blatant when it comes to overthrowing democracies in the name of democracy.

Fuzzy Skinner, yeah, I can get a bit grindy about democracy. What can I say? I'm an old-fashioned American. I still believe stuff I was taught in grade school about liberty and equality and everyone having a fair vote.
posted by shetterly at 4:53 PM on October 11, 2008


Actually, I linked to exactly what I meant to link to... but I was probably being a little too meta-obtuse. :)
posted by rokusan at 4:57 PM on October 11, 2008


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posted by fire&wings at 5:03 PM on October 11, 2008 [6 favorites]


Meh
posted by Rafaelloello at 5:17 PM on October 11, 2008


Meh

What s/he didn't say.
posted by joe lisboa at 5:22 PM on October 11, 2008


Is it grindy in here or is it just me?

We're going to be knee-deep in "grindy" until the election, and probably for a month after that.
posted by Class Goat at 5:27 PM on October 11, 2008


The best part of the original thread was Jess's comment. ;)

This is an important subject, but McCain's loony affiliations are not going to get any more traction than Obama's, and probably less. Right now we have more important things to consider as voters and frankly his likely voters don't give a crap about death squads as long as they aren't left wing. They don't care about people, they only care about America as a symbol. Anything that can harm that is to be feared. Anything that can harm Americans that think like they do is to be feared. Anything that harms the oppressed or people who think differently than they do, that is God's will. OK, that is a gross exaggeration, but unfortunately, not as gross as it should be.
posted by caddis at 5:42 PM on October 11, 2008


The best part of the original thread was Jess's comment. ;)


I was totally thinking that!
posted by bitteroldman at 6:07 PM on October 11, 2008


Yeah, this late, anyone concerned about the election should probably be focusing on reducing the effectiveness of this season's voter suppression, since that's probably the area of biggest potential impact left.

Well other than Diebold, I guess, but it's a lot too late to fix that.
posted by rokusan at 6:13 PM on October 11, 2008


I'm sure there are plenty of undecided voters reading Metafilter. Right?

It's like the "there are no WMD in Iraq" cycle.

Stage 1) There are WMD in Iraq.
Stage 2) Uh-huh, yes, there are.
Stage 3) No, the majority is wrong, there definitely are.
Stage 4) We all know there are no WMD in Iraq. Why are we still discussing this?
posted by DU at 6:52 PM on October 11, 2008 [2 favorites]


Meh

Oh! Oh! Is this Jeopardy? I know what the question is: How do Americans feel about John McCain?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:39 PM on October 11, 2008


OK That's it!!

I'm voting for Obama now.
posted by Balisong at 7:57 PM on October 11, 2008 [1 favorite]


I still think McCain roughing some guy up on his trip out there is the best story on that whole subject.
But the hell of it is, I agree, that we seem to just 'get over' this kind of stuff. The Iran-Contra stuff still pisses me off. But no, Ollie North gets a t.v. show and all the other players just roll on in government. Reminds me of the whole rigged quiz show thing (plus the movie Quiz Show) folks get used, lousy stuff gets done to maybe move product or whatever, but in the end, people forget, and the people who pulled the original stuff come back a few years later and they're like old whores and ugly buildings - respectable.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:43 PM on October 11, 2008


Sorry to be that guy, but, needs more snowman.
posted by gac at 12:55 AM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


No, Smedleyman, I don't get over it: and it baffles me no end why these people aren't punished such that they don't, like old whores and ugly buildings, come back, ever again, but are instead torn down or shuffled off to menial jobs at the fringes of society's fringes.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:37 AM on October 12, 2008


The US has been doing a lot of sweeping the distasteful realities of their actions under the rug. It isn't new, they've been doing it at least since Hurst provided the war. But in this day and age, the way we, as a nation, glorify a drug abusing arms-running liar, for example, or let Kissinger stay on the streets, as mentioned previously, it just makes the blood boil and the mind boggle.
posted by paisley henosis at 7:21 AM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


Please, no more.
posted by MarshallPoe at 7:58 AM on October 12, 2008


Rafaelloello, I see your meh and raise you a great David Foster Wallace quote.

gac, help the noob if you want to improve his participation. What's "more snowman"? (If it's a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon, I'll be extra grateful for the link.)

MarshallPoe, no more what? Crushing democracy in the name of democracy? Hypocritical politicians? Blowing our economy on imperialism? John McCain? I'm so with you on any of those.
posted by shetterly at 12:29 PM on October 12, 2008 [1 favorite]


☃ ☃ ☃ ☃ ☃
posted by ryanrs at 1:33 PM on October 12, 2008


Surely this...

wait..

Wrong president. What the hell am I supposed to type in the McCain threads?
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:45 PM on October 12, 2008


OutrageFatigueFilter: New video shows McCain and Palin feasting on human flesh; voters say "meh"
posted by finite at 2:48 PM on October 12, 2008


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