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Aboot time those hoosers let us in EH!
October 25, 2008 9:02 PM   Subscribe

Are you a Democrat who drinks lattes? eats arugula? Does the thought of another Republican president fill you with dread? Canada's E.L.I.T.E. immigration plan is right for you!

Check this out if you actually want to immigrate to Canada.
posted by afu (102 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite

 
Population density is currently 3.2/km, which is more than I am comfortable with.
Try Mexico first, Americans.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:19 PM on October 25, 2008


There is nothing in that video that says Don't Go to me. Hellooooo Canuckistan!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 9:24 PM on October 25, 2008


This leads me to recall a conversation I (Canadian) had with some American colleagues... I was talking about my high school - a publically funded Catholic school. The Americans were appalled and said something about "but...aren't church and state seperate?"... and there was me who was "yes...(then I recognize the contradiction)... well... people don't fight about it".

The left and right in Canada, and the left and right in the USA are different; while there is crossover, there should be some recognition that the Canadian left's priorities aren't made in the USA and I am not sure an American liberal would be entirely comfortable here. There are some issues like basic education and healthcare which aren't up for discussion here, and very few people in Canada would be comfortable with anything labelled a "faith based initiatives... while very few American lefties would like dealing with a state-owned phone company, utility or insurance company.

I know this video is a joke but the American left should worry about America...
posted by Deep Dish at 9:27 PM on October 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Or New Zealand. With enough money you can buy your way in ("Investor"). I think a lot of wealthy people plan on hiding out there, in case of the apocalypse
posted by stbalbach at 9:27 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


I agree with Deep Dish. Also I don't think I could deal with being a citizen of Foobonia. Maybe if Quebec secedes I could go there. I likes me some poutine.
posted by Tehanu at 9:54 PM on October 25, 2008


state-owned phone company

Will they be the ones handling the call from 2004 asking for its joke back?

I mean, I sort of chuckled, but I kind of think they started making this before Canada elected another Conservative and Obama was measuring the White House for drapes.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:03 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


very few American lefties would like dealing with a state-owned phone company, utility or insurance company
Not sure why you think that. Most of the utilities where I live are publically owned. I'm sure that if said utilities were having problems, a bunch of people would pop up to explain how the problems were an inevitable consequence of public ownership. But as it happens, they're pretty well-run, so we don't hear from those people. I don't remember hearing anyone complain about the public ownership of those utilities.
posted by hattifattener at 10:03 PM on October 25, 2008


Or New Zealand. With enough money you can buy your way in ("Investor").

This is true of most countries, including the US. Last time I checked (2 years ago?), Australia was the cheapest.

A recent study indicates that Canada needs more immigrants and recommends raising the limit to 360,000 immigrants/year, up from the current 250,000/year. That's a lot of new Canadians. Pass the poutine!
posted by grounded at 10:12 PM on October 25, 2008


Shouldn't all Canadians be tucking the last of the root vegetagles into the cellar and whatever else you do about now to prepare for the icy and snowy desolate winter months? Hello Ontario.
posted by longsleeves at 10:25 PM on October 25, 2008


I actually had never eaten arugula until it was used as an example of an elitist liberal food. Now, whenever I see something with arugula in it, like a sandwich or something, I tend to pick that over other options.
posted by Nattie at 10:35 PM on October 25, 2008 [4 favorites]


There are some issues like basic education and healthcare which aren't up for discussion here, and very few people in Canada would be comfortable with anything labelled a "faith based initiatives... while very few American lefties would like dealing with a state-owned phone company, utility or insurance company.

. . . has the cold gotten to your brain? Speaking as an American lefty, that all sounds fan-fucking-tastic. I think the problem is that you might have some serious misconceptions about American leftists.
posted by Ryvar at 10:48 PM on October 25, 2008 [8 favorites]


I can't wait to Sashimi with these guys.
posted by Balisong at 11:21 PM on October 25, 2008


Funny thing: In Brazil (esp. in the south/southeast) arugula is treated exactly the way spinach is treated in the US (in terms of how you eat it, how you buy it, "elitism", etc...). You don't buy it in miniature boxes with 8 small leaves for 10 dollars - you buy a big bag of them for 50 cents or so... Then you get home and make a big salad of it (on its own). You can also find arugula salad in many "macho" steakhouses, and buy arugula pizza in a lot of pizza places. It's probably the 4th or 5th most consumed green around there.

In summary, Brazilians are all a bunch of commie liberal douchebags :)
posted by qvantamon at 11:36 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


Nah... everyone knows you'll just whine and threaten to move to Canada or, at most, post an Askme about it.

I mean, I sort of chuckled, but I kind of think they started making this before Canada elected another Conservative and Obama was measuring the White House for drapes.

That conservative will probably end up to the left of Obama in the grand scheme of things.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:51 PM on October 25, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'd like to point out a lie in the campaign: It is colder than you could ever imagine.
You're going to freeze your balls off here. Its not like Boise, or either of the Portlands, let alone La Jolla.

And you think you'd like to live in a place where there is actual interchange and dispassionate debate on a multiplicity of philosophical subjects. Trust me, this is no paradise for a white-bread red-state American like I used to be. Multiculturalism here is blurred to the point where you don't even realize that the super hot girl you're dating is ethnically indian: You just think she's pretty and exotic, and so articulate and smart.

There are no standards here. It doesn't matter what you make when you go to the emergency room. People with public educations hold powerful positions and ethnic candidates not only make the ballot in elections - they actually get elected. This place is the American hell. You'll pay more taxes, the minimum wage and the minimum cost of living is higher and you'll end up taking up the slack (economically) for people who aren't even wall-street bankers. WTF. They distribute all of the wealth, they think that everyone has the right to health, education and a family allowance, if you have children. Trust me, you don't want to live here. It is Soviet Union cold, cold cold cold.

Once, in the summer, it was warm enough for me to take off my second wool sweater and long johns just long enough to get a horrible sunburn. No, this place is not for you. I'm as white as McCain and equally angry and warlike. If any of my words strike a nerve in you, you know that you can trust me. You don't want to live in Canada. Plus, they probably wouldn't even take you.
Elitist northern bitches.

I miss the gun violence and the exorbitant cost of health care.
But, you can't have everything.
posted by isopraxis at 11:59 PM on October 25, 2008 [52 favorites]


That conservative will probably end up to the left of Obama in the grand scheme of things.

That'll be a great comfort when we accompany you to your next Iraq.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:00 AM on October 26, 2008


That conservative will probably end up to the left of Obama in the grand scheme of things.

Obama reminds me a lot of Tony Blair, I hope he doesn't wind up the huge disappointment that Blair was.

Going back on one my earlier posts, I can verify that my brain is resident in a more or less climate controlled room. I've volunteered for a campaign which ran against a candidate who was an American draft-dodger (and her draft dodger friends), and I spent most of the month prior to the mid-term elections in 2006 in Seattle. I found the draft dodgers campaigned on abortion, war, and other things which have a fairly good political consensus and are off the radar in Canada... Fighting US battles in Canada... I heard Nancy Pelosi (most notably) called several unprintable.. almost violent names in conversations at the office, gym, and restaurants -- in a blue state. For another campaign, I read the Democratic national platform very thoroughly since I was trying to steal good ideas - I found very few. I'd say I have decent understanding of the US left.

It may be useful to point out that the US parties typically don't belong to organizations like "socialist international" or similar organizations for liberals . The US liberal beliefs don't export well. The example I used earlier of crown corporations running things like auto-insurance, may have been clumsy but I find people generally like socialized auto insurance until they get into a car accident and can't switch insurers when they get pissed off at the outcomes (cause they are monoplies). I've seen that turn a few lefties into Milton Freidman...

Listen, feel free to immigrate here. I don't mind. Just don't be suprised if the politics are different.
posted by Deep Dish at 12:29 AM on October 26, 2008


Once, in the summer, it was warm enough for me to take off my second wool sweater and long johns

Sir, that is just. not. on. I can only hope you kept your toque on.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:34 AM on October 26, 2008


Aren't they starting to scrap the public healthcare system up there... or at least are moving in that direction?
posted by crapmatic at 1:02 AM on October 26, 2008


a state-owned phone company

Can't be worse than Qwest.
posted by louche mustachio at 1:15 AM on October 26, 2008


Well, blue state emigrants, let me tell you what to expect.

For the past two decades Canada has really been on the Right-Wing track. We just got to start way left of the US because we were actually able to elect a candidate who represented 1960s values rather than have him getting shot on his way out of a hotel.

Our "socialized medecine" is underfunded, understaffed and poorly organized. The federal government used to pay 50% of the money (provincial governments the other 50) and now it pays about... 18% or it did in 2005, and I don't think its gone up since then. If you have a problem that requires special attention (not a broken leg, easily removed tumor or common affliction) you have to pay through the teeth for medication. Health Canada only covers non-branded (20 year old) meds or a handful of branded ones if they're lifesaving and still the process takes years. The only way to get anything done is to have a doctor as a close and personal friend to pull the strings for you.

Now as to our "Liberal government," that's going away with the next majority government. After the Mulroney's constervatives got thrown out the next Liberal government decided to be a new kind of Liberal and dump those 1960s values in exchange for something called Neoliberalism, as mentioned a few posts back here. They signed NAFTA despite promising not to before they were elected and slowly and quitely defunded the Canada Health Act without telling anyone. Now the conservatives are perpetuating the Neoliberal policy of the Liberal party. They perpetuated SPP (signed by the Liberals), tried again at DMCA (only defeated because the opposition parties want to score points with voters) and are trying to effectively outlaw vitamins and herbal remedies by giving Health Canada SS powers. We have the same democrat-republican racket up here. They're all just the pro buisness party and the rest of the political parties will NEVER get majority.

The only things we have going for us right now is a functioning judiciary (struck down the marijuana law unless the federal government instituted medical marijuana) and an ugly minority government where nothing can get done but at least it filters out all the bullshit legislation that flagerantly steps on the rights of consumers, minimum wage earners and small buisness owners (soon to be a less effective bullshit filter depending on who supports the Conservatives in the coalition government).

Okay, rant over.
posted by Pseudology at 2:13 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Can't be worse than Qwest.

No shit. Not only that, but Qwest is heavily subsidized by the federal and state governments for their infrastructure costs, as are the others. They aren't state owned, but they sure are taxpayer funded. We're down to Qwest, Verizon and AT&T now, in separate areas. Might as well be The Phone Company, for all the good competition does.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:45 AM on October 26, 2008


At first I read "hoosier," and I thought "How would going to Indiana allow you to escape from the disaster that would be another Republican president?"

On reflection, I ask myself the same question about moving to Canada.
posted by moonbiter at 4:01 AM on October 26, 2008


This is such a bizarre thread. Why are you taking three words out of people's comments and sniping at them? Ryvar, do you really not understand that government supported churches, mosques etc. are accepted in Europe/Canada/elsewhere in a way that might turn American doctrinaires off? It's just a simple point, that some constitutional basics are different.
posted by Non Prosequitur at 4:07 AM on October 26, 2008


Silly ad... primarily because nobody seriously believes that McCain can win the election... except for those that aren't serious.

While our own media doesn't want to open themselves to extreme criticism by calling the contest, they're already doing so in Canada and in Britain. Bookies are already paying off wagers on the election there, and have closed all new bets.

That said, some people are going to be moving... to Alaska!

(I fail to see the loss to our country in this.)
posted by markkraft at 4:16 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Bookies are already paying off wagers on the election there, and have closed all new bets.

Paddy Power has paid off on Obama, but that's a publicity stunt as much as anything: its something they've done previously on many occasions (including in one case paying out on a sports team that subsequently failed to win).

Ladbrokes is still taking bets, though they rate Obama as a huge favourite (1/14): http://www.grandparade.co.uk/clients/ladbrokes/us_elections/
posted by Infinite Jest at 4:56 AM on October 26, 2008


Vancouver isn't cold.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:00 AM on October 26, 2008


p.s. It's "hosers," not "hoosers." Now take off, eh?
posted by Turtles all the way down at 5:13 AM on October 26, 2008


The Baked Alaskan and Raging Bull are not likely to win. Should they, and liberals flee to Canada, you can be sure that Canada will be next on the US invasion agenda to protect national borders and root out potential terrorists with possible WMD.

Stay home, liberals! Do as I did when teaching: bore from within.
posted by Postroad at 5:14 AM on October 26, 2008 [3 favorites]


Elitist northern bitches.

Oh come on, you love us that way.
posted by orange swan at 5:25 AM on October 26, 2008



posted by chuckdarwin at 5:42 AM on October 26, 2008


Wet cool is a hell of a lot more uncomfortable than dry cold.
posted by Hildegarde at 5:52 AM on October 26, 2008


You can buy your way in to most countries stbalbach. New Zealand seems quite expensive. Canada costs only $400,000. Ireland was even giving people diplomatic passports. What's cool about Canada is the transparency?
posted by jeffburdges at 6:23 AM on October 26, 2008


Say what you like about Canada; our banks aren't failing.
Also, we've run out of immigrants; please send more!
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:26 AM on October 26, 2008


Let us hope that if McCain/Impalinator win that a few Liberals use their Second Amendment rights rather than fleeing to Canada.

C'mon -- losing an election is no reason to eat a bullet.
posted by VicNebulous at 6:38 AM on October 26, 2008


Canada, you had me at no NPR pledge drives.
posted by Cyrano at 6:46 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


If Canada is so great why is most of it's population packed in a thin line along the US border? Or are those all people who just put their bags down as soon as they got out of the US?
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:00 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


If Canada is so great why is most of it's population packed in a thin line along the US border?

Clearly, they're attracted to the magnetic nature of the USA, and secretly long to live there.

(In the same way, of course, Americans are fighting their own clear desire to live in the oceans.)
posted by rokusan at 7:04 AM on October 26, 2008 [17 favorites]


This says it all.
posted by jonmc at 7:08 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


I was talking about my high school - a publically funded Catholic school. The Americans were appalled and said something about "but...aren't church and state seperate?"... and there was me who was "yes...(then I recognize the contradiction)... well... people don't fight about it".

Actually, we don't have separation of church and state. We don't have any established churches like the UK, but we don't have separation either. It's only school board policy which has taken prayers out of non-Catholic schools in my lifetime.

We have gotten flack from the U.N. over funding schools for Catholics and not for other religions, but that's because of our stupid constitutional dealing at a time when most schools were protestant and we were protecting a minority in Ontario (are there public Catholic schools outside of Ontario, now that Newfoundland has gone secular?). A lot of Canadians would rather stop funding religious schools rather than extend it, but a lot of other Canadians want to extend the public funding to Protestant, Jewish and Muslim schools. Which totally could happen because we don't have separation of Church and state.


That conservative will probably end up to the left of Obama in the grand scheme of things.

I think this is very unlikely. Even if Obama moves centre like Tony Blair (who is a neocon internationally while being centre domestically), Harper is further right than a lot of people realize, and further right than he has been able to act as a minority leader. His party has not just ideological but also personal ties to the Republican Party in the U.S. They have been trained by Republicans, and he looks to the United States as an example of how to do things (just like the Pearsonian Liberals did in the '60s) -- look how he's been trying to introduce American norms (like fixed election dates) into Canadian politics. Though I doubt he will ever call for term limits.


Our "socialized medecine" is underfunded, understaffed and poorly organized.

Well, it may be underfunded, but I live in the United States and it really is night and day better in Canada. I have never been denied necessary care in Canada; I have friends with health insurance who have been denied it here. I'm currently paying over 1/8 of my gross income for coverage for myself and my husband, and that's after my employer has already paid half. And though I can pay another $500 a year for prescription coverage, that's compared to $150 that I paid my university for a prescription plan in Canada.

I would take the Canadian health care system over the American anyday. It's more efficient, more affordable and frankly safer. People don't go bankrupt from getting sick.


If Canada is so great why is most of it's population packed in a thin line along the US border?
Clearly, they're attracted to the magnetic nature of the USA, and secretly long to live there.

After the Rebellion of 1776, we were worn out, and only got as far as Kitchener. Also, we love our Great Lakes. And there is precious little top soil if you go too far north in most places :). (The praries are an exception, but in lots of Canada you just can't farm too far north because they don't have the topsoil - it was scraped away by glaciers. I've camped up there - you're sleeping on rock and gravel).
posted by jb at 7:15 AM on October 26, 2008 [3 favorites]


I thought I read "hoosiers" too...except here in St. Louis, we use the term to mean - instead of "people from indiana" - white trash. So telling everyone to become white trash *really* threw me off the scent.
posted by notsnot at 7:20 AM on October 26, 2008


Speaking as a Canadian who lived in the States for a while, let me say to all Americans: You would't like it here.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:42 AM on October 26, 2008


(In the same way, of course, Americans are fighting their own clear desire to live in the oceans.)

If we have a Metafilter Best Rebuttal Contest 2008, I'm nominating this one.
posted by Cyrano at 7:50 AM on October 26, 2008 [3 favorites]


The weather in southern Canada can't be that much worse than Wisconsin.
posted by drezdn at 8:09 AM on October 26, 2008


Aren't they starting to scrap the public healthcare system up there?

We're starting to see private companies opening MRI clinics and clinics with other expensive machinery. The wait time to get an MRI in the public system can be six months or more. I know someone who paid a few hundred dollars out of pocket for a 3D ultrasound at one of these private clinics.

There was talk of a "two-tier" system, where we would allow private for-profit hospitals to be built beside the public system. The argument for the two tier system is that it will reduce the strain on the public system.

The argument against it is that it will cause a shortage of doctors, steal the best doctors from the public system, or be the first step towards total privatization. My dad (who is militantly right-wing and a big fan of John McCain) said he is "scared" of a two-tier system. Puzzle over that my American friends.
posted by Brodiggitty at 8:12 AM on October 26, 2008


This is all backwards. We should be encouraging Canadians to emigrate to the US. With sufficient numbers in the right states, within ten or fifteen years we could noticeably change federal government policy here.

So, Canadians -- I call upon you to move en masse to Texas, Florida, Colorado, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia. The weather's great. For all we whine about it, gas is cheap. No GST! Hell, a bunch of those places don't even have state income tax. As soon as you're legal, start running for state and national office and get the other Canadians to vote you in. You can do it!
posted by brain cloud at 8:15 AM on October 26, 2008 [8 favorites]


I think we've got Florida covered, actually, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:38 AM on October 26, 2008


That's it, if all you yanks move here, I'm moving to Europe.
posted by anthill at 8:52 AM on October 26, 2008


I wouldn't do this at all. I don't know if it was these people, but I'm in Canada now and I don't remember anything before I got here. I also don't remember anything from my first three years here either. I think I was brainwashed. Then they sent me to this 'school' place where they filled my head with all these new ideas, as if they were trying to re-format me. As soon as I got out, I was allowed to vote, and I was voting left! And I wanted to!
posted by jimmythefish at 8:53 AM on October 26, 2008


I've heard about those "new ideas" that make you want to vote left. They call them critical thought or some such.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 9:22 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


We could just trade countries ...
posted by mannequito at 9:29 AM on October 26, 2008


This says it all.

Note: Canadian white people threaten to move to Europe.

Ah, no. If the Conservatives had taken a majority in the last election, you would have found out what our refuge of choice is. Hint: it rhymes with zoo freeland.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:38 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


StickyCarpet: I can't tell if you were kidding or not about why the population of Canada is heaviest along the American border. You understand that as you go further north, it gets colder, right? Like scary colder.

As for the several "Americans, trust me, because of x, y, z, you wouldn't want to live in Canada" comments--yes, because all 300 million Americans like/dislike the exact same things.
posted by tzikeh at 9:40 AM on October 26, 2008


I can't tell if you were kidding or not about why the population of Canada is heaviest along the American border. You understand that as you go further north, it gets colder, right? Like scary colder.

It's not the cold - Edmonton is very far north and extremely cold, but still fairly well populated compared to Northern Ontario, even before the oil boom. That's because there is farmland around there - as opposed to Northern Ontario and Quebec, which are all rocks and trees and water. The Prairies have a deep soil - Ontario and Quebec have large areas of very shallow soil with exposed bedrock.

Traditionally, farming required lots of labour, so you get population density, which leads to more trade and manufacturing. Look at where Canada has the densest population - just at the intersection of the best farmland and trade networks. Actually, we're quite busy paving over our best farmland (southern Ontario, Quebec).

Obviously, this is a bit simple, and ignores other major influences (fishing, ports) -- but the most obvious answer as to why northern Ontario is very uninhabited while the many places in Russia which are just as cold have people is that they have better soil.
posted by jb at 10:00 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


So, Canadians -- I call upon you to move en masse to Texas, Florida, Colorado, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia.

If you're ignorant enough to believe the states problems are limited to 8 states you probably should be one of those citizens replaced. By anyone.
posted by gtr at 10:10 AM on October 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


Edmonton isn't exactly 'very far north'. It's just south of the geographical centre of the province, and there's another territory above that. The reason we are huddled on the border has a lot to do with warmth and light - growing seasons are longer further south. The railroad and the highway were built in the south, and this has dictated the direction of growth to a great extent. Trade with the States is another reason.

Resource extraction has been the only major reason to head north, and even though there is much publicity regarding oil sands and such, the population in there is quite insignificant compared to the rest of the country.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Deep Dish, the Democrats in the US are not left.
posted by QIbHom at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2008


So, Canadians -- I call upon you to move en masse to Texas, Florida, Colorado, Alabama, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia.

Do you realize that the entire population of Canada is maybe 3/4 of Florida+Texas? It's admirable to see that US Americans have made such progress in finding things on maps; perhaps now you can start to tackle arithmetic.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:19 AM on October 26, 2008 [5 favorites]


I can't tell if you were kidding or not about why the population of Canada is heaviest along the American border.

I'm not finding a clear map, but my understanding is that the population falls off pretty sharply at just one mile. I was told this had something to do with Canadian radio and TV being able to broadcast over the border and attract American customers.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:33 AM on October 26, 2008


This says it all.

Note: Canadian white people threaten to move to Europe.

Note: Europeans are unable to threaten to move anywhere.

Soon enough we can establish an orbiting colony and all threaten to move there together.
posted by kaspen at 10:39 AM on October 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


I lived in Québec for a time, and I have to say I really enjoyed myself there, apart from the lack of available work (my primary sources of income were playing my guitar in the street and picking strawberries on the île d'Orléans). And I have to second the observation regarding indigenous people. I was pleasantly surprised to see how actively involved the native population was in the media and in politics. It was clean, cultured, entertaining and cheap - provided you had a job. Nice place.

Anyway, I really don't understand all this "Oh, you Americans with your religious right, rampant racism and worship of privatisation would hate it here!" talk. Where is this coming from? You're saying this to this crowd? Have you seen the political opinions the Americans bring forth on this site?

Multiculturalism here is blurred to the point where you don't even realize that the super hot girl you're dating is ethnically indian

. . . but not to the point where Francophones and Anglos are holding hands in a circle, singing around the fire.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:56 AM on October 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


I'm sure that if said utilities were having problems, a bunch of people would pop up to explain how the problems were an inevitable consequence of public ownership.

Fortunately, one can always point to Enron and the like as the inevitable consequence of private ownership.

A monopoly under effective public control is a thing of beauty. The monopoly is guaranteed a market and a profit margin, eliminating market risk and encouraging the development of truly long-range planning. The investors are likewise guaranteed a relatively high rate of return with no risk to speak of. Customers are guaranteed quality of service and price controls.

Public monopolies are pretty much a win-win-win situation when they are done right.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


If you're ignorant enough to believe the states problems are limited to 8 states you probably should be one of those citizens replaced. By anyone.

///

It's admirable to see that US Americans have made such progress in finding things on maps; perhaps now you can start to tackle arithmetic.

Christ on a pogo stick, it was a joke. They do have those where you come from, don't they?
posted by brain cloud at 11:00 AM on October 26, 2008 [4 favorites]


The wait time to get an MRI in the public system can be six months or more.

Unless you are willing to have your MRI during off hours, in which case you can have it within the week. Family members of mine had theirs at 12am & 2am, days after finding out they needed one.
posted by zarah at 11:07 AM on October 26, 2008


Do you realize that the entire population of Canada is maybe 3/4 of Florida+Texas? It's admirable to see that US Americans have made such progress in finding things on maps; perhaps now you can start to tackle arithmetic.

Wow, really? Is that level of vitriol really necessary for a jokey comment that is actually complimenting Canadians?
posted by Solon and Thanks at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2008


Unless you are willing to have your MRI during off hours, in which case you can have it within the week. Family members of mine had theirs at 12am & 2am, days after finding out they needed one.

I've had the same experience. A lot depends on where are you are and how willing you are to advocate for yourself. It can take months if you just take the date they give you. But if you convince your doctor that it's urgent, and call around for cancellations, it can be a matter of days. (In my experience, the real hold-up is with getting to see specialists.)

But I'll say one quick thing about socialized medicine: I've been self-employed for years, as an entrepreneur and then a freelancer. I've also had some lengthy run-ins with the healthcare system. And I can tell you this: if I'd been on the hook for those bills as a consumer rather than as a taxpayer, I would have been knocked clear out of the market for no fault of my own. (And the thought of adding the stress of paying those bills is gut-wrenching.)

The way I see it, socialized medicine is an overwhelmingly pro-market, pro-business proposition. It enables people to strike out on their own without needing to run towards the shelter of a benefits package. Nor is it just small business: ask any major American corporation finds itself responsible for the medical bills of its pensioned boomer workforce. The only businesses that should cling to the idea of private medicine are the ones trying to skim profits from it.
posted by bicyclefish at 11:43 AM on October 26, 2008 [12 favorites]


Edmonton isn't exactly 'very far north'. It's just south of the geographical centre of the province,

Yeah, it's not that far north .... for Alberta. But compared to where people live in Ontario? Toronto is at 43N - yes, we're substantially below the 49th parallel. The entire province of Alberta is 6 degrees north of Toronto, and Edmonton is at 53N, ten degrees north of Toronto.

I'm sure climate and growing seasons play some part, but the entire provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan (which are major Canadian farming regions) are farther north than all of Ontario's farmland, and they still farm much farther away from the border and much further north than we do. Just check out where the major cities are. Okay, Saskatoon isn't big, but it still has a lot of farming around it and it's at 52N. Compare that to Sudbury (46N), Thunder Bay (48N) or Kenora (49N), none of which have large farming regions adjacent. On this list of Canadian cities with latitudes, note how there are no cities listed in Ontario or Quebec north of 50N.

Considering that the prairies have even more of a continental climate that Quebec and Ontario (we have very large lakes to mitigate our climate, also Hudson's Bay) - why aren't we farming and building cities in Ontario and Quebec up around 50N, 53N? Because when you look at your feet up there, you realize that you are either standing on rocks, or in a marsh. Why else would settlers have not stopped there and set up farms? Lake Superior could have been an amazing locus of travel networks, supporting a rich farming and manufacturing centre. But the soil just isn't there: it's all Canadian Shield country - astoundingly beautiful and rich in rare minerals, but useless to farming, which was, until recently, the basis of civilization.

So that's your answer, Americans - Canadians don't cluster by the border much in the praries, but in Central Canada they do because our north is very pretty, but you can't even put up a tent in most of the places, let alone plow a field. So we stick to the Southern Ontario peninsula and the St Lawrence Valley.
posted by jb at 11:57 AM on October 26, 2008 [2 favorites]


Oh - about the whole MRI machine thing.

Canada doesn't have as many MRIs as the US, because we don't have as many gunshot wounds. MRIs are useful for all sorts of things, but they are really live savers with gunshot wounds - so in the U.S. every hospital has to get one. Whereas in Canada, they are less necessary.

So, if you are really worried about the lack of MRI machines, the solution is clear. Get yourself (and other Canadians) shot more often.
posted by jb at 11:59 AM on October 26, 2008


jb writes "are there public Catholic schools outside of Ontario, now that Newfoundland has gone secular?"

Alberta has public Catholic Schools.

Brodiggitty writes "I know someone who paid a few hundred dollars out of pocket for a 3D ultrasound at one of these private clinics."

Me too, but it was strictly a vanity thing.
posted by Mitheral at 12:33 PM on October 26, 2008


I really love Vancouver and it's not really cold. I'm from Florida and I've been to Vancouver in November & January and found it very tolerable. Since my company is based there, I've been thinking about moving there for a long time.
posted by mike3k at 1:20 PM on October 26, 2008


MRIs are useful for all sorts of things, but they are really live savers with gunshot wounds - so in the U.S. every hospital has to get one.

Wouldn't an x-ray work just as well?
posted by smackfu at 1:22 PM on October 26, 2008


> Wouldn't an x-ray work just as well?

Much better, actually, if the bullet is still in the wound and all you want to do is locate it. But MRIs are much better at imaging soft tissue, if you want to know what kind of internal wound you have to deal with.
posted by jfuller at 2:07 PM on October 26, 2008


Re: Edmonton's climate.

While I don't live in Edmonton right now, when I did I would routinely get in my car and drive to work when it was -40C (-40F). That's really not unusual. The thing I noticed that surprised most americans when I told them was that during winter, when you listen to the weather reports it is normal for the announcer to tell you how long it will take for exposed flesh to freeze, and I'm talking in the 90 seconds kind of area. Once the wind gets up in the coldest part of the year, you can hit -55C overnight.

But regardless of that, the Northern Lights (aurora borealis) make you want to be outside at 2am in February regardless on somedays. I used to get home from work some nights well after midnight, and I would just stand on my driveway and look up and listen (yes you can hear them sometimes) until I couldn't feel my limbs. I wouldn't trade that beauty for anything!

eh!
posted by blue_beetle at 2:48 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Soon enough we can establish an orbiting colony and all threaten to move there together.

Threaten? I am living and working as hard as I am now so in order to move to space as soon as it's possible.
posted by humannaire at 3:13 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


So we stick to the Southern Ontario peninsula and the St Lawrence Valley.

And Nova Scotia. Salmon's better for you than cows and wheat, anyway. :)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2008


Haha, while I support all efforts towards establishing a sustainable orbital colony where we can all do drugs, practice family planning, and generally engage in witty and ribald intellectual debate, when I wrote that I was mostly imaging a horror future where all progressive peoples abandon the earth to the regressive and stagnant elements of the species. The forces of ignorance and reactionary theocracy unopposed, a global order of repression could at last complete its task devolving humanity into a fleshy and inanimate monoculture, rendering the surface of the planet a homogeneous expanse bureaucracy and self-assured blandness. Ultimately, while I don't know if I buy the line about changing the system from within, I definitely don't think the strategy of perpetual cultural retreat and self-imposed segregation is advisable over the long term.
posted by kaspen at 4:41 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


I lived in Québec for a time, and I have to say I really enjoyed myself there, apart from the lack of available work (my primary sources of income were playing my guitar in the street and picking strawberries on the île d'Orléans).

Holy crap! Me too ('cept I picked cukes and zucchini, and did street performance art). That's crazy! I thought I told this story before but I am unable to find it, so...

When the US declared war on Iraq, I found the climate intolerable in the US. So having already spent time in Mexico, I went to Canada. As my dad's parents are from Newfoundland, and growing up in the early-70s all I heard about was conscientious people escaping "the draft " [sic] by fleeing to Canada, and growing up insulated by Canadians here in Florida, I genuinely felt it was my real homeland.

When I got to the border beneath Vancouver, after driving across country with a friend in a car I bought for $50 in Key West (plus $85 for the stereo), we went in without a plan. Passing through Vancouver, and driving up 99, it began to be night. I pulled the car over at a camp ground. That campground was in Squamish. We stayed for a week to "vibe" it/Canada out, then when it was clear Canada was 1) not the US, and 2) cool, we packed up the car, drove back down to the border, left, and then re-entered. This time I requested asylum.

The boarder patrol was very accommodating, took my information, made sure my buddy and I were sane/not mentally ill/not a wanted criminal/okay (and that my dog was okay, too. Yep, I brought a dog.), and then told me I had an appointment with the Canadian Immigration Council (CIC)—in two weeks. Until then, enjoy the country and don't get into any trouble. And then we were sent on our way into Canada. I marveled.

We returned to the campsite where we had already begun to make friends. I wound up staying there for six months. (My buddy took off for Vancouver after about a month.) Having done x-sports my whole life, I took up bouldering and freeclimbing: The campground was there in support of The Chief, the second-largest single piece of exposed granite in the world, and a great mountain and region for climbing activities. I got good at it. I even met Chris Sharma.

When the winter came, the camp ranger contacted my climbing coach (who I traded music training with for lessons) and asked him to find me a place to live. He and his roommates literally created a room for me out of a utility closet at his apartment in town. It was good times.

During this time, I had many proceedings at the CIC. However, the first thing I did was I went before a consular agent at the US Embassy and renounced my citizenship. During a "time of war," they informed me that I could be arrested for treason. When the left the room, I left the room and building, and then went and formally requested asylum. On the basis that it was dangerous for me to be in the US. (This was 2003, and it was true.) From there I went directly to the CIC, and processed in. They had me fill out pages and pages of forms, but gave me healthcare and even living expense money. I was then told to go on my way, the CIC would be in contact, and not to be a nuisance. It was unbelievable! But true!

I stayed and worked (I had been issued a temporary Social Insurance Number/SIN) in Squamish for a year, then moved to Victoria on Vancouver Island to work and record music there. I needed a break from rural life. So then I stayed in beautiful Victoria for a year, as well.

From Victoria, my dog and I flew all the way across country to Montreal—what many had told me was "the Gem of Canada"—and found Montreal to be what I was looking for. The best way I can put it is San Francisco is the US's Montreal. But it really isn't. Montreal is even more fantastic, and vital in a fresh and vigorous manner. For one, there are two dominant cultures, francophone and anglophone. For another, an apartment in San Francisco is $2500 US for a decent one bedroom. In Montreal, huge apartments with two bedrooms and balconies and great kitchens could be found for $350 Canadian. And I mean HUGE. It's gone up since then, but $500 some luck and some good friends will land you in a really amazing living arrangement.

Plus the culture! OMG it is exquisite. Plus the food! Affordable plentiful inspiring—with such a variety! And the dedication to music and arts was unlike I had seen anywhere in the States. Montreal is my favorite city in North America. I live in Key West, and I am from here so for me it is wonderful in ways present day visitors may never see, but if would live anywhere else in North America it is Montreal.

After two years, my request for asylum was denied. (Had I applied for citizenship based on my grandparents being native Canadians, things might have gone differently. But at the time, I felt the situation demanded a political stance.) Whatmore, I was informed that my renouncing of my US citizenship was "denied" based on my not having another country to call my own or "claim me." (???) My Conch Republic passport, I was informed, would not pass that litmus test. As for my request, it turns out that Canada has never "formally" granted asylum to any such application from an individual from the US. The implications were Canada to do so would be bad, I was told.

But there was more. Seeing as I had formally requested asylum, and had formally been turned down, I learned that the US State Department has a policy in which I was to be handed over to the US for processing. I was also informed not be bring anything back into the US that I wanted to keep or had any value as it could not be guaranteed I would be able to keep it/that it may be taken away. So the dog and computer and art stayed in Canada, all in the best hands: In my time I made wonderful friends. Lastly, based on teh decision, I would not be allowed to return to Canada for at least one year.

Canada kept me in the "immigration prevention center" in Laval for nearly two weeks while I processed out. This was a jail, barbed wire, big fences, guards, limited movement, no internet, the works, but it was the nicest jail one could imagine. It was almost as good as the US "country club" jails I have heard of in legend. Guards were extraordinarily helpful interesting and polite. And there were definitely some people there who didn't even belong on earth, much less Canada. I'd say that of the people at the immigration prevention center, 85% belonged there without question. Again I was impressed with Canadian policy and implementation.

Soon, arrangements were made, and as bus ticket procured (by Canada) good for passage to my point of departure, Key West. That is, after the US Border Guard.

The US Border Guard was now called Homeland Security. Upon my being handed over to US authorities, I was handcuffed and explained to that "the US has changed since I have been away." Then I was paraded through the center, a prize to display before the terrorized and gawking USAins waiting to go into Canada. It was clear to all that I was a bona fide terrorist and that Homeland Security had done their jobs. It was a priceless moment, and one I continue to cherish. I was then taken behind the scenes.

And surprisingly that was it. I was told that I had been previously processed, and that I was to go to Key West. There was an escort on the bus, and that was that.

Three years later, I have regained all my US identification—drivers license, social security card, US passport—and been reintroduced to US culture. Everything has come back around. Here in Key West, we get a heaping dose of what it's like in the US by virtue of a steady stream of US tourists and visitors. Key West is US and it isn't. One of the ways it isn't is that as an island, Key West is very laid back. But what is clear is that much of the portion of the population which lost its senses in 2001 have regained their faculties. That, and the larger portion of the citizenry which had been intimidated and scattered by the Draconian tactics and policies of the past seven years have regrouped. People are standing up for what is right and good again, and I can see on our population's faces that it feels good.

And this reflects what I learned from Canada. Canada is not some Shangrila. It is another nation, and world, which exists above this one. And it does not exist there as a fail-safe for USAins. Canada has its own agenda, its own vision, its own quality of life and vast and proud cultural identity. As such, as a nation, I'd say that Canada expects us to live up to ours and our own.

postroad's comment, Stay home, liberals! Do as I did when teaching: bore from within very nearly hits the nail on the head, except I would amend that to, "Stay home, citizens of [your state in the US]! Do this: Change from within." And for the past year solid, I have worked hard to do my part to make this idea a reality in the upcoming US presidential election.

As a nation, whatever that is, it is our responsibility to stand up to wrong....even when it comes from within and it calls itself right. There is no where else in the world to go. It is not only the US which must get genuinely right with itself, it is the entire rest of the world. Therefore, working to make the US a place worth living and a respectable place again is something which is going to have to be done. And while the US is in horrendous condition ethically economically and conscientiously, it is not where it was just three years ago. It is better. It is getting good again.

For the rest of the world, President Obama is a hope that signifies change at the essential level, a change of heart. President Obama is therefore more than a role; it is a symbol. And what it symbolizes is, to me, what I left for and why I stayed when I returned. It's all the US civics stuff I picked up in elementary and have had hard-coded in my own sense of right and wrong. The US went off course seven years ago, and all of us have paid the price. Now, after seven years of wrongheadedness and misleading and being misled, can we make a change?

I believe Yes We Can.
posted by humannaire at 5:01 PM on October 26, 2008 [130 favorites]


On the basis that it was dangerous for me to be in the US. (This was 2003, and it was true.)

Why? It's not like there was a draft.
posted by marble at 5:52 PM on October 26, 2008 [3 favorites]


It is colder than you could ever imagine.
Probably, at times, if your imagination lives in Texas or California or Florida. But it's also warm enough to be sweltering in the short summers - we *can* fry an egg on the sidewalk here in July, you know, and we don't generally start building our igloos until early September or they go all mushy.
posted by fish tick at 7:12 PM on October 26, 2008


Public monopolies are pretty much a win-win-win situation when they are done right.

And when they're not, they're called "Con Edison."

Had I applied for citizenship based on my grandparents being native Canadians

It's not something you apply for on that basis—you either are or you aren't.
posted by oaf at 7:52 PM on October 26, 2008


Regarding MRI machines and bullets, I'm pretty sure the technicians and physicians wouldn't let a gunshot wound patient anywhere near the machine. Metal (especially inside of people) and MRI machines don't interact well, given the strong magnetic fields involved.
posted by desiderandus at 8:21 PM on October 26, 2008


>jb
>
> MRIs are useful for all sorts of things, but they are really live savers with gunshot wounds


It is medical malpractice to place a patient with bullet fragments in a MRI scanner. The alternating magnetic field is so strong (commonly 3 times the strength of the earth's magnetic field these days) that the pieces of metal get yanked back and forth - and usually out of the body into the scanner itself. This happens even with materials than are not particularly ferromagnetic like aluminum and lead.

This is why welders get a radiograph of their orbits prior to an MRI - to make sure a tiny metal fragment (common in the eyes of welders) don't end up making Swiss cheese of their eyeball.

Some metals are safe - special composition aneurysm clips, etc and larger joint prostheses that are firmly attached to bone. These generate some called Blooming Artifact that pretty much obscures everything in the immediate vicinity of the metal on the generated image.

Conclusion: metal+mri= no good. These physical laws apply in Canada just as they do in the U.S.

I think you are thinking of CT scans. Those are often useful for patients with gunshot wounds.
posted by tenmuses at 8:29 PM on October 26, 2008 [1 favorite]


Conclusion: metal+mri= no good. These physical laws apply in Canada just as they do in the U.S.

Now that you say it, I remember it's Magnetic Resonance Imaging - and that makes sense that you want no metal near it.

But I'm just going to blame my mix-up on my husband :), since he's been going on to me about MRIs and gunshot wounds for sometime - maybe he did hear something about CT scans.
posted by jb at 9:47 PM on October 26, 2008


It's not something you apply for on that basis—you either are or you aren't.

Then I am. And this is not mere hubris. As it turns out it, most likely I will be granted Canadian citizenship on top of my US citizenship on this basis. Think the nations status of native and aboriginal people of descent, and that is the grounds on which such citizenship is granted.

My dad just failed to get his Canadian citizenship after being born in Vermont. But seeing as he lived in Canada growing up and both of my grandparents are native Canadians, these circumstances work in my favor for naturalization.
posted by humannaire at 10:20 PM on October 26, 2008


Obama reminds me a lot of Tony Blair

People keep saying this. I don't understand why. Tony Blair was pretty clearly a greasy glad-handing bog-standard douchebag politician from the get-go, wasn't he? Sure seemed that way to me, at least.

And humannaire, just curious: are you planning to compensate the Canadian government for what must have been thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars they spent on your adventure?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:45 PM on October 26, 2008 [5 favorites]


Then I am.

Then you have been since birth, and there's no naturalization involved.
posted by oaf at 1:17 AM on October 27, 2008


Wet cool is a hell of a lot more uncomfortable than dry cold.

Seconded. I moved to Helsinki from Cambridge (UK) and marveled at how much warmer it felt. I'd take Canada over the UK any day.
posted by ValkoSipuliSuola at 2:20 AM on October 27, 2008


I was surprised not to see a campaign during our recent election calling for a mass movement of Canadians to the US in the event of a Harper majority and an overwhelming Obama/Democrat win.

If our glorious PM takes us to the polls again within a year, we'll have one, but it will be based exclusively out of Toronto, and made up of disgruntled urban dwellers.
posted by Chuckles McLaughy du Haha, the depressed clown at 7:39 AM on October 27, 2008


It is medical malpractice to place a patient with bullet fragments in a MRI scanner. The alternating magnetic field is so strong (commonly 3 times the strength of the earth's magnetic field these days)

You're right about metal+MRI=bad, but wrong about the strength of the field. The magnetic field of an MRI is around 1-3 teslas; the earth's magnetic field is 30-60 microteslas. The magnetic field of an MRI is around 30,000 times that of the earth's, not 3 times.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:30 PM on October 27, 2008 [2 favorites]


I went before a consular agent at the US Embassy and renounced my citizenship. During a "time of war," they informed me that I could be arrested for treason.

This makes no sense, since renunciation of citizenship is not treason, and in fact conviction for treason is on the list of potentially expatriating acts that might lead the State Dept. to issue a Certificate of Loss of Nationality.

I was informed that my renouncing of my US citizenship was "denied" based on my not having another country to call my own or "claim me." (???)

While I've never had to do this since I've only worked for the State Dept. domestically (and IANAL, just a low-level more-or-less-paralegal), it's my understanding that consular officers can advise you that you might become stateless if you renounce and don't hold citizenship of another country, but I don't see how that could be used to deny your renunciation. I thought they were only be able to deny if the oath wasn't properly executed, or the voluntariness of the act was questionable (you were a minor, not in your right mind, you were forced into it), or they thought you were doing it as a tax dodge.

Sorry about the citizenship law wonk/wank, humannaire, but I'd love to know why there's such a huge discrepancy in your experiences and what I've been trained is standard procedure in cases like yours. Either my colleagues over there shafted you, or our training materials (to say nothing of the Code of Federal Regulations and Vol. 7 of the Foreign Affairs Manual) have buggerall to do with what actually happens overseas.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 3:59 PM on October 27, 2008 [1 favorite]


Seconded. I moved to Helsinki from Cambridge (UK) and marveled at how much warmer it felt. I'd take Canada over the UK any day.

It wasn't just the wet cold - I lived for over 2 years in the UK (Cambridge as well, actually - and it is supposed to be one of the driest bits of the UK. Scary, huh?) and the wet is bad, but much worse for the fact that the British just don't know how to insulate buildings. Because they don't get the killer cold Canada or Finland gets, they haven't figured out double glazing, insulation or even something as simple as a storm porch/airlock. Our front door opened up right into our living room! Just the one door. It was insane.
posted by jb at 7:28 PM on October 27, 2008


I don't see how that could be used to deny your renunciation.

I'm pretty sure the U.S. doesn't like creating stateless persons. Unless you've got another citizenship to fall back on, I'm pretty sure you're going to stay a U.S. citizen.
posted by oaf at 7:43 PM on October 27, 2008


I'd love to know why there's such a huge discrepancy in your experiences and what I've been trained is standard procedure in cases like yours

I imagine they were not treating humannaire as a person with a serious request to make, but more like a mildly unhinged person ranting and who needed a bit of protection from himself. This does not mean he was, only that he might have seemed that way to a consular officer.

Telling him he could be arrested for treason: they thought he was a little crazy and were lying to him to scare him into what they thought was more sensible behavior. Even my undergraduates mostly know that renouncing citizenship can't possibly be treason.

Denying the renunciation: they thought he didn't mean it, and the business about being stateless was just a more palatable reason to tell him. Or, his lack of foreign citizenship (and lack of other background work towards actually renouncing citizenship) was read as lacking the real intent to fully give up US citizenship.

They certainly didn't shaft him. If they'd gone forward with the renunciation, he'd (probably) still have been deported back to the US, but he'd have been deported as a no-status alien instead of a citizen. I don't want to think about what happens to people like that in George Bush's America, but I bet those people don't end up in Key West.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:58 PM on October 27, 2008


They certainly didn't shaft him.

True, but he sure shafted us. WTF, wasting our resources with jackass stuntery when we've got people who really are at peril seeking refuge in our country?
posted by five fresh fish at 10:36 PM on October 27, 2008 [5 favorites]


I agree with the fish and the chicken. Quit wasting our money!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:16 PM on October 27, 2008


I have to echo Mr fish. Refugee programs in much of the developed world face a lot of pressure; as well as very legitimate concerns about what volume of refugees a given country can reasonably and fairly absorb, they're prone to becoming political footballs. Silly stunt cases are the sort of thing that just provide ammunition to people who would like to undermine the ability of legitimate refugees to make it to safety.
posted by rodgerd at 1:09 AM on October 28, 2008


Not that I'm saying he shouldn't emigrate to Canada (although I've doubts of his (her?) character now). It's that there are other immigration pathways, ones that are not abusive of our refugee program.

It's quite right that he was booted out of the country.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:23 AM on October 28, 2008


I'm from Portland, OR, and I lived in Vancouver, BC for two years on a common-law spousal work permit. I did a fair bit of traveling in BC, including most of the Gulf Islands, Vancouver Island, Nelson and the Slocan Valley. I had originally intended to apply for permanent residency, but my ex left his job and we went back to the USA (and later broke up), so that didn't work out.

I loved every minute of my life in Canada, and the health care I received while I was there was hassle-free, inexpensive and excellent. I love Portland, but I'd move back to Canada in a heartbeat if my circumstances allowed for it.
posted by velvet winter at 10:43 AM on October 28, 2008


Seemed serious enough to me, humannaire did. Someone goes somewhere and lives and works for the better part of two years and it's "stunt" to mefites? Snarkity snark snark, get outta my country!
posted by IvoShandor at 5:57 AM on October 30, 2008


The stunt was in claiming refugee status, instead of using an appropriate immigration pathway.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:16 AM on October 30, 2008


Seemed serious enough to me, humannaire did.

Please. He went on an extended road trip, picked up some interesting story, made his "statement", and is now back in the US and seemingly pleased with himself. No matter the "I was at *risk*, man" nonsense, let's not make it more than it is.
posted by kjs3 at 12:23 PM on October 30, 2008 [1 favorite]


So hummanaire fled the country when he/she perceived things as being 'dangerous', then came back when he/she was rejected by Canada. And now that things are turning around - yay America! Yeah, thanks for helping out... glad we all toughed it out for you in your absence.

Hardly sidebar worthy.

I was stationed (yes, EVIL MILITARY!!!) for a couple of years in Key West... at least I can agree with hummanaire that Key West is basically a different country. And a wonderful place.
posted by matty at 9:53 PM on November 3, 2008


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