Mr. Mojo Collectin' Pension
December 8, 2008 12:03 PM Subscribe
Had Jim Morrison survived, he would be turning 65 years old today.
Morrison, (previously mentioned on the blue) lead singer of The Doors, was born December 8, 1943 in Melbourne, Florida and died under somewhat contested circumstances on July 3, 1971 in Paris, France, where he is interred at Pere Lachaise Cemetery.
He perished at 27, one of the more celebrated members of a posthumous club of influential musicians who failed to live to see twenty-eight. (Curiously, Morrison had in fact written a poem about Brian Jones, one of the earliest members, who predeceased him by two years to the day)
After his death, the band soldiered on, releasing two more albums as a trio, before breaking up and periodically fitfully reuniting. After a decade or so of relative inactivity, a well-known 1991 film revived interest in the band. Reunions have been marked by duelling lawsuits, and such misadventures as star drummers bowing out after bicycle accidents and singers leaving to reform their old bands.
For those who enjoy comparing and contrasting, a typical Doors song, with Morrison, without Morrison, and with the most prominent replacement.
Morrison, (previously mentioned on the blue) lead singer of The Doors, was born December 8, 1943 in Melbourne, Florida and died under somewhat contested circumstances on July 3, 1971 in Paris, France, where he is interred at Pere Lachaise Cemetery.
He perished at 27, one of the more celebrated members of a posthumous club of influential musicians who failed to live to see twenty-eight. (Curiously, Morrison had in fact written a poem about Brian Jones, one of the earliest members, who predeceased him by two years to the day)
After his death, the band soldiered on, releasing two more albums as a trio, before breaking up and periodically fitfully reuniting. After a decade or so of relative inactivity, a well-known 1991 film revived interest in the band. Reunions have been marked by duelling lawsuits, and such misadventures as star drummers bowing out after bicycle accidents and singers leaving to reform their old bands.
For those who enjoy comparing and contrasting, a typical Doors song, with Morrison, without Morrison, and with the most prominent replacement.
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
posted by gman at 12:18 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by gman at 12:18 PM on December 8, 2008
Dude. Iceman.
posted by ND¢ at 12:22 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by ND¢ at 12:22 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
I figure if he were still around we'd be seeing him on the TV Guide channel's Celebrity Fit Club XXIV or Surreal World 22 one of these years. Oh, that scene where he and Busey drunkenly slap box until they both fall down wheezing would have been priceless.
posted by aught at 12:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by aught at 12:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh and I would still have wandered over to Pere Lachaise cemetary because Gertrude Stein, Oscar Wilde, and Edith Piaf are there, but I probably wouldn't have seen that odd group of bored gendarmie and disheveled American kids milling about.
posted by aught at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by aught at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2008
What odd timing - I just heard Crystal Method's remix of The Doors "Roadhouse Blues" last night, which made me think of Fatboy Slim's "Bird of Prey", which samples Jim Morrison's poem of the same name (here it's used as background to shaky video of his grave, one year ago).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, "had" he survived. It's plainly obvious that he resurfaced as Stephen Wright.
posted by jtron at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by jtron at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2008
Earliest known film (1964) of the Lizard King in a Florida State University promotional clip.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2008
I would argue this gentleman was the most prominent replacement.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:36 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by entropicamericana at 12:36 PM on December 8, 2008
My favorite doors song: Moonlight Drive (demo version).
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2008
Gary Glitter survived, sort of.
posted by R. Mutt at 12:38 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by R. Mutt at 12:38 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
He'd be as goofy as Gary Busey and touring with the Monkees.
posted by pracowity at 12:40 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by pracowity at 12:40 PM on December 8, 2008
He looks artifacty.
posted by fire&wings at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by fire&wings at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2008
If Jim Morrison were alive today, he would be Mick Jagger.
That's why Morrison died and the Doors didn't last; they had no Richards.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2008
That's why Morrison died and the Doors didn't last; they had no Richards.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2008
I still wonder if his story is one of a sort of nihilism or, rather, the ironic secret within jubilance: burning hot and fast. His frenetic voyages seem to have been mostly to dark places, which puzzles me.
I was never a big fan of the Doors, but reading No One Here Gets Out Alive made me really, really dislike Morrison's pseudo-intellectual posing. It's like he stayed a college freshman all his life. I mean really, he challenges guests to pick any random book from his library, read a sentence aloud, and Morrison would tell them the title. Who does this? If he'd absorbed anything written in those pages, he'd never pull a stunt like this.
Morrison's journey, I think, was to DO all the things that are supposed to make someone intelligent, or enlightened, or deep, without actually letting the lessons sink in. Just going down a to-do list of Lizard King credentials, going through the motions without reflection. He defines "poseur".
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:47 PM on December 8, 2008 [23 favorites]
I was never a big fan of the Doors, but reading No One Here Gets Out Alive made me really, really dislike Morrison's pseudo-intellectual posing. It's like he stayed a college freshman all his life. I mean really, he challenges guests to pick any random book from his library, read a sentence aloud, and Morrison would tell them the title. Who does this? If he'd absorbed anything written in those pages, he'd never pull a stunt like this.
Morrison's journey, I think, was to DO all the things that are supposed to make someone intelligent, or enlightened, or deep, without actually letting the lessons sink in. Just going down a to-do list of Lizard King credentials, going through the motions without reflection. He defines "poseur".
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 12:47 PM on December 8, 2008 [23 favorites]
Every choose-your-own adventure avenue in the Jim Morrison book has him dead before 60.
Naw, if he chose just the right cocktail of drugs on page 113 he'd end up at Ultima.
posted by cortex at 12:54 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Naw, if he chose just the right cocktail of drugs on page 113 he'd end up at Ultima.
posted by cortex at 12:54 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was thinking about this, thinking maybe it's a good thing, because lord i'm sure whatever he would be doing now would be hideous, but as others have mentioned, it's moot. Jim Morrison couldn't have survived. A person that lived to 65 wouldn't have been Jim Morrison. And for all his faults and his often silly poetry, I still love the guy.
posted by saul wright at 12:57 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by saul wright at 12:57 PM on December 8, 2008
I mean really, he challenges guests to pick any random book from his library, read a sentence aloud, and Morrison would tell them the title.
I don't find your description of his parlor trick all that egregious. I do that with movies on tv, flipping through channels. I'm pretty good at naming what them, even if I haven't seen them before, in under 30 seconds, and usually only 5 or 6 seconds. I don't do it to prove my brilliance or whatever, I just have that particular minor talent. I think having someone guess which book from a random sentence would be fun and kind of groovy.
I'm not disputing your point, you've read the book, not me, just your example.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't find your description of his parlor trick all that egregious. I do that with movies on tv, flipping through channels. I'm pretty good at naming what them, even if I haven't seen them before, in under 30 seconds, and usually only 5 or 6 seconds. I don't do it to prove my brilliance or whatever, I just have that particular minor talent. I think having someone guess which book from a random sentence would be fun and kind of groovy.
I'm not disputing your point, you've read the book, not me, just your example.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Marisa: A lot of crap ideology got paired with Morrison because of the general pretentiousness of the 60s, and I hated him for a long time for the same reason. But there are plenty of other people who aren't as smart as their art (Nick Cave comes to mind) but with more realistic expectations (like just being a groundbreaking singer not a poet or a film-maker) its easier to see their true gifts.
He wasn't posing on stage or in the studio. As a singer and songwriter he was just balls out scary good.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:11 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
He wasn't posing on stage or in the studio. As a singer and songwriter he was just balls out scary good.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:11 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
Dude. Iceman.
What, no love for Top Secret?
posted by Pollomacho at 1:13 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
Dude. Iceman.
What, no love for Top Secret?
posted by Pollomacho at 1:13 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
If Jim Morrison was alive today, he'd be dead.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:15 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:15 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
I'm not disputing your point, you've read the book, not me, just your example.
Yeah, I can see the fun of the parlor trick; it's just in the context of a lot of his behavior, it's more an example of his peacocking than anything else.
Now, I do like a number of songs by the Doors. "Waiting for the Sun", for example (which we used to sing as "Waiting for the Bus" when I was in high school).
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:15 PM on December 8, 2008
Yeah, I can see the fun of the parlor trick; it's just in the context of a lot of his behavior, it's more an example of his peacocking than anything else.
Now, I do like a number of songs by the Doors. "Waiting for the Sun", for example (which we used to sing as "Waiting for the Bus" when I was in high school).
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:15 PM on December 8, 2008
What, no love for Top Secret?
It was that movie that taught me that German is just English played backwards.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:17 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
It was that movie that taught me that German is just English played backwards.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:17 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I loved him in high school. Later, when I was a parent, I monitored my kids and their music closely. A high school kid who likes the Doors is trouble waiting to happen.
posted by RussHy at 1:18 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by RussHy at 1:18 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Morrison's journey, I think, was to DO all the things that are supposed to make someone intelligent, or enlightened, or deep, without actually letting the lessons sink in.
Please don't take this as defending the guy, because he sucked, but he died at 27. He didn't have time for them to sink in. One of the things you have to do to be intelligent, enlightened, or deep is live past 27. And I don't mean the not dying part, I mean the not being 27. You spend your 20's being a fucking idiot, and that is fine. That allows you to be the other less fun things when you are older. You can't be intelligent, enlightened, or deep when you are young because you are too busy being young. And that is good. To everything there is a season and whatnot. That is also why rock music should not try to be intelligent, enlightened, or deep and why when it attempts that it is either bad or good in spite of that attempt. Rock music should be about vibrancy and youth and immediacy and fun and anger and shaking your hips and rocking this joint and drugs and sex and being alive. All the other stuff is better left to the old because they have had time to think about it. That is one of the reasons the doors sucked: they tried to be intelligent, enlightened and deep when they should have just tried to rock. I think they still would have sucked, but at least they would have been sucking authentically. Young people pretending to something that they haven't earned because they are not old enough is just sad (note: Kurt was obviously an exception).
And the only thing sadder than a young person trying to be old is an old person trying to be young. And that is a specialty of the baby boomers and why Jim Morrison would have been a parody had he lived.
posted by ND¢ at 1:21 PM on December 8, 2008 [13 favorites]
Please don't take this as defending the guy, because he sucked, but he died at 27. He didn't have time for them to sink in. One of the things you have to do to be intelligent, enlightened, or deep is live past 27. And I don't mean the not dying part, I mean the not being 27. You spend your 20's being a fucking idiot, and that is fine. That allows you to be the other less fun things when you are older. You can't be intelligent, enlightened, or deep when you are young because you are too busy being young. And that is good. To everything there is a season and whatnot. That is also why rock music should not try to be intelligent, enlightened, or deep and why when it attempts that it is either bad or good in spite of that attempt. Rock music should be about vibrancy and youth and immediacy and fun and anger and shaking your hips and rocking this joint and drugs and sex and being alive. All the other stuff is better left to the old because they have had time to think about it. That is one of the reasons the doors sucked: they tried to be intelligent, enlightened and deep when they should have just tried to rock. I think they still would have sucked, but at least they would have been sucking authentically. Young people pretending to something that they haven't earned because they are not old enough is just sad (note: Kurt was obviously an exception).
And the only thing sadder than a young person trying to be old is an old person trying to be young. And that is a specialty of the baby boomers and why Jim Morrison would have been a parody had he lived.
posted by ND¢ at 1:21 PM on December 8, 2008 [13 favorites]
Well said, ND¢. I shudder to think of my own 20s-related silliness. The racoon coats, the bathtub gin, all that quickstepping ... I thought I was the cat's pyjamas.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Incredible software. What was that, the smudge brush?
posted by jfrancis at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jfrancis at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Had Jim Morrison survived, he would be turning over in his grave today.
posted by Floydd at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Floydd at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2008
If Morrison hadn't died young he would have one tenth the respect and reverence he has now. He would be like every other 60's musical act that survived - older, fatter, and playing 40-year old hits in small venues and casinos.
It was dying that made him a legend of rock.
posted by rocket88 at 1:26 PM on December 8, 2008
It was dying that made him a legend of rock.
posted by rocket88 at 1:26 PM on December 8, 2008
He would be like every other 60's musical act that survived - older, fatter, and playing 40-year old hits in small venues and casinos.
Yeah, sure 'cause that was the fate of the Dead? No. The Stones? Hmm, no. Dylan? Um, nope. Led Zepplin? Well, not really...
posted by Pollomacho at 1:31 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah, sure 'cause that was the fate of the Dead? No. The Stones? Hmm, no. Dylan? Um, nope. Led Zepplin? Well, not really...
posted by Pollomacho at 1:31 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
every other 60's musical act that survived
Yeah like that loser Lou Reed and that dumb Canadian Neal Young or whatever (whatever happened to him?) and that goofball fairy David Bowie who went waaay downhill after Space Oddity.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:32 PM on December 8, 2008
Yeah like that loser Lou Reed and that dumb Canadian Neal Young or whatever (whatever happened to him?) and that goofball fairy David Bowie who went waaay downhill after Space Oddity.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:32 PM on December 8, 2008
Hmm, well I wouldn't have used the Dead and the Stones because they've been terrible since the late 70s but hey, at least they made some really great albums in the 70s.
There's no telling what Jim might have done if he'd sobered up and hooked up with the right people (or quit booze and stuck to heroin for 10 years like Iggy)...He would have at least made a couple of immense solo albums (cf his brother Van!)
That legendary dead person theory is bunk.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:38 PM on December 8, 2008
There's no telling what Jim might have done if he'd sobered up and hooked up with the right people (or quit booze and stuck to heroin for 10 years like Iggy)...He would have at least made a couple of immense solo albums (cf his brother Van!)
That legendary dead person theory is bunk.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:38 PM on December 8, 2008
Here's a fun exercise: listen to the Doors' first album, then to LA Woman. Or, if you don't have the patience, listen to a representative/random track off each. On the latter album, Morrison sounds like his own drunk uncle. He could have lived to a ripe old age--occasionally showing up to give a rambling, semi-coherent interview, a la latter-day Brando--but his rockstar years were already over.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:41 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:41 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hmm, well I wouldn't have used the Dead and the Stones because they've been terrible since the late 70s
True, but they are still selling out stadiums (or at least the Dead were until the end).
posted by Pollomacho at 1:41 PM on December 8, 2008
True, but they are still selling out stadiums (or at least the Dead were until the end).
posted by Pollomacho at 1:41 PM on December 8, 2008
If Jim Morrison was alive today, he'd be hawking robot insurance.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:42 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:42 PM on December 8, 2008
He would have at least made a couple of immense solo albums (cf his brother Van!)
or maybe he could have gone into writing full-time like his siter Toni?
posted by Pollomacho at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2008
or maybe he could have gone into writing full-time like his siter Toni?
posted by Pollomacho at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2008
Whoa what happened there, man? Flashback or somethin'.
posted by Pollomacho at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Pollomacho at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2008
Halloween Jack: Listen to Girls Girls Girls, then listen to Dr. Feelgood. After you've peeled yourself out of the wreckage of your Z and puked up that lighter fluid cocktail, tell me it's impossible for a band to get clean, reverse directions, and make a stellar sounding record.
For an even more fun exercise, listen to And Justice For All and Dr. Octagonecologyst back to back while mainlining ketamine with the University of Connecticut girls volleyball team.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:51 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
For an even more fun exercise, listen to And Justice For All and Dr. Octagonecologyst back to back while mainlining ketamine with the University of Connecticut girls volleyball team.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:51 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
I loved him in high school. Later, when I was a parent, I monitored my kids and their music closely. A high school kid who likes the Doors is trouble waiting to happen.
Because the uptight parents of the 60s did such a good job of keeping their kids out of trouble....
"That rock and roll?! It's the devil's music!"
posted by Afroblanco at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2008
Because the uptight parents of the 60s did such a good job of keeping their kids out of trouble....
"That rock and roll?! It's the devil's music!"
posted by Afroblanco at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2008
Poor Otis dead and gone, left me here to sing this song......
Don't fight, too much to lose, Can't fight the Runnin' Blues.
posted by hortense at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2008
Don't fight, too much to lose, Can't fight the Runnin' Blues.
posted by hortense at 1:54 PM on December 8, 2008
I never liked Morrison or the Doors (despite my brothers playing them in steady rotation with the Dead and Neil) because he sang with such utter contempt for himself, the music, the lyrics, the audience, his band mates, the microphone, his pants, the air temperature, passing motorists... sure, you can be angsty or angry or soulful or whatever. To me, Morrison was just a fucked up jerk. People might like that because they are at a stage where they feel like they can go around being randomly jerky to people, too. But that is just me. I am not a fan of his songwriting, either.
posted by oflinkey at 1:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by oflinkey at 1:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
All of the acts mentioned were growing and improving through the 70s, where The Doors were already a bit past their prime. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but they went out on top and didn't get to slide into mediocrity. Jim's death cemented them at the peak.
There's no telling what Jim might have done if he'd sobered up and hooked up with the right people (or quit booze and stuck to heroin for 10 years like Iggy)...
That's a big 'if'.
posted by rocket88 at 2:00 PM on December 8, 2008
There's no telling what Jim might have done if he'd sobered up and hooked up with the right people (or quit booze and stuck to heroin for 10 years like Iggy)...
That's a big 'if'.
posted by rocket88 at 2:00 PM on December 8, 2008
his pants
Another fun fact from his biography: Jim Morrison foreswore underwear, and liked leather pants.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:02 PM on December 8, 2008
Another fun fact from his biography: Jim Morrison foreswore underwear, and liked leather pants.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:02 PM on December 8, 2008
A high school kid who likes the Doors is trouble waiting to happen.
RussHy, I think you'll be listening for more telling signs than just The Doords. What of Nirvana? Then avoid all grunge. Maybe Blind Melon? A strike for mellow alt-rock. Maybe it's time to look towards good, wholesome Christian ska.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:04 PM on December 8, 2008
RussHy, I think you'll be listening for more telling signs than just The Doords. What of Nirvana? Then avoid all grunge. Maybe Blind Melon? A strike for mellow alt-rock. Maybe it's time to look towards good, wholesome Christian ska.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:04 PM on December 8, 2008
Maybe if he'd reached 65 he would have finally reached his ambition of being even a halfway decent poet.
Nah, on second thoughts, probably not.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:04 PM on December 8, 2008
Nah, on second thoughts, probably not.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:04 PM on December 8, 2008
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
Willow.
(Also Heat and Tombstone.)
posted by rodgerd at 2:06 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
Willow.
(Also Heat and Tombstone.)
posted by rodgerd at 2:06 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
A high school kid who likes the Doors is trouble waiting to happen.
All high school kids like the Doors, don't they?
Not that this invalidates your point. Just fleshing out the syllogism.
posted by rusty at 2:08 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
All high school kids like the Doors, don't they?
Not that this invalidates your point. Just fleshing out the syllogism.
posted by rusty at 2:08 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
All high school kids like the Doors, don't they?
All the ones that like weed. So that pretty much means all but a handfull.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:12 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
All the ones that like weed. So that pretty much means all but a handfull.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:12 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, say what you will about Jim Morrison, but he gave us:
Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel
Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel...
The future's uncertain and the end is always near.
So that's probably enough right there.
posted by rusty at 2:15 PM on December 8, 2008
Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel
Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel...
The future's uncertain and the end is always near.
So that's probably enough right there.
posted by rusty at 2:15 PM on December 8, 2008
When I was 16, the Doors seemed profound. Now that I'm 38, they seem like a pretentious lounge band that managed a few really good songs ("Light my Fire" "Roadhouse Blues" "My Eyes Have Seen You") in spite of themselves. I also have known two different guys who were convinced theyw ere Jim Morrison reincarnated, and insisted on being called 'Jim,' even though they were named Steve and Rob.
posted by jonmc at 2:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 2:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Young people pretending to something that they haven't earned because they are not old enough is just sad
Yeah, they just haven't earned it yet, baby; they must suffer & cry for a longer time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yeah, they just haven't earned it yet, baby; they must suffer & cry for a longer time.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
rusty, what made that song good was Robbie Krieger's guitar, not Morrison's lyrics.
posted by jonmc at 2:17 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by jonmc at 2:17 PM on December 8, 2008
Not that this invalidates your point. Just fleshing out the syllogism.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:18 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
ND¢: Please don't take this as defending the guy, because he sucked, but he died at 27.
I'd buy this if the guy had cashed it in at, let's say, 19 or 20. Maybe 21 at the latest. But come on. I've met plenty of smart 18-year-olds who don't come off like the pretentious goofball that Morrison so frequently did. If you haven't stopped being that guy by the time you're 27, there's a fair chance it's just because you are that guy.
I swear I am not saying this because I'm 27.
Or because I've spent most of my 20s being a fucking idiot.
posted by brennen at 2:19 PM on December 8, 2008
I'd buy this if the guy had cashed it in at, let's say, 19 or 20. Maybe 21 at the latest. But come on. I've met plenty of smart 18-year-olds who don't come off like the pretentious goofball that Morrison so frequently did. If you haven't stopped being that guy by the time you're 27, there's a fair chance it's just because you are that guy.
I swear I am not saying this because I'm 27.
Or because I've spent most of my 20s being a fucking idiot.
posted by brennen at 2:19 PM on December 8, 2008
All high school kids like the Doors, don't they?
All high school freshmen like The Doors. By the time you have a driver's license, you should be old enough to no longer be impressed by pretentious babble and aimless keyboard noodling.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:23 PM on December 8, 2008
All high school freshmen like The Doors. By the time you have a driver's license, you should be old enough to no longer be impressed by pretentious babble and aimless keyboard noodling.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:23 PM on December 8, 2008
Whoa the criticism is getting too edgy in here I'd better log off the computer before my mom finds out I'm reading such edgy material.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:28 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:28 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
I just wish I knew why 15 year olds needed their rebellion sold to them by people my baby's grandparent's age. Hey dumbass 15 year olds, crappy music is still being made to this very day. I think you can find it on Myspace or something. /lawn
posted by ND¢ at 2:32 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by ND¢ at 2:32 PM on December 8, 2008
Yeah, I can see the fun of the parlor trick; it's just in the context of a lot of his behavior, it's more an example of his peacocking than anything else.
To be fair, Marisa StPT, while No One Here Gets Out Alive also had me thinking Morrison was a twat of the highest order, a lot of that impression would come down to the fact that rock biographies are almost always written for fanboys, and often by fanboys. Thus, the book surely played up a lot of selective incidents, in order to validate the fanbase's choice of musician-hero - as a crazy, wild-eyed poet-artist-philospopher-genius.
To give another example, everybody in the world realises that Bono is a sad, wanky tit, right? And yet, read anything written for U2 fanboys, and it's like viewing the world through a pair of oversized bono-glasses; he ends up being portrayed as some kind of three-way lovechild of Gandhi, Mother Teresa & Jesus.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:35 PM on December 8, 2008
To be fair, Marisa StPT, while No One Here Gets Out Alive also had me thinking Morrison was a twat of the highest order, a lot of that impression would come down to the fact that rock biographies are almost always written for fanboys, and often by fanboys. Thus, the book surely played up a lot of selective incidents, in order to validate the fanbase's choice of musician-hero - as a crazy, wild-eyed poet-artist-philospopher-genius.
To give another example, everybody in the world realises that Bono is a sad, wanky tit, right? And yet, read anything written for U2 fanboys, and it's like viewing the world through a pair of oversized bono-glasses; he ends up being portrayed as some kind of three-way lovechild of Gandhi, Mother Teresa & Jesus.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:35 PM on December 8, 2008
Had Jim Morrison survived, he would be turning 65 years old today.
(Yeah, c'mon
Rub my feet
Do I know you?
C'mon
One more time)
2008 and I'm
Sixty five
No one here gets out alive, but
You take your pills
I'll get mine
Gonna take it, watch me
Swallow dry
The old get old
And the meds get stronger
Thirty scrips a week
Still I'm feeling wronger
The boys got the girls
But we got the doctors
Hold on a minute
Gotta see my proctolo-
Ow! Come on!
Augh!
Your bar room days are over, baby
Night is drawing near
Macramé and shuffleboard hobble down the years
Ya inch across the floor with a walker in your hand
Trying to tell me you can barely stand
Trade in your dentures for a handful of Vicks
Rub it on me, baby, lay it on nice and thick
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, aha
Rub my bunions one more time!
Rub my bunions one more time!
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, gotta, rub my bunions
Ohhhhhhhh!
(Hey, c'mon, Jimmy
You won't have long to wait for me, Janis
I'll be there in just a little while
You see, I gotta go out in this hearse with these people and...)
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, got to
Rub my bunions, got to
Rub my bunions, got to
Help me up to the bathroom and...
Hah-hah-hah-hah-hah
Too late!
Hey! Who's that out on my lawn?
Do I know you? C'mon.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
(Yeah, c'mon
Rub my feet
Do I know you?
C'mon
One more time)
2008 and I'm
Sixty five
No one here gets out alive, but
You take your pills
I'll get mine
Gonna take it, watch me
Swallow dry
The old get old
And the meds get stronger
Thirty scrips a week
Still I'm feeling wronger
The boys got the girls
But we got the doctors
Hold on a minute
Gotta see my proctolo-
Ow! Come on!
Augh!
Your bar room days are over, baby
Night is drawing near
Macramé and shuffleboard hobble down the years
Ya inch across the floor with a walker in your hand
Trying to tell me you can barely stand
Trade in your dentures for a handful of Vicks
Rub it on me, baby, lay it on nice and thick
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, aha
Rub my bunions one more time!
Rub my bunions one more time!
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, gotta, rub my bunions
Ohhhhhhhh!
(Hey, c'mon, Jimmy
You won't have long to wait for me, Janis
I'll be there in just a little while
You see, I gotta go out in this hearse with these people and...)
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions one more time
Rub my bunions, got to
Rub my bunions, got to
Rub my bunions, got to
Help me up to the bathroom and...
Hah-hah-hah-hah-hah
Too late!
Hey! Who's that out on my lawn?
Do I know you? C'mon.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
His father, Rear Admiral George Morrison, died recently.
I was a fan of the Doors in college, but rarely listen to them now. Still, there's nothing like driving on Venice Blvd. on a moonlit night and hearing the Doors; I always roll down the windows and crank up the speakers.
John Densmore has blocked the use of the Doors' music in commercials, saying that Jim wouldn't have wanted it. If Morrison were still alive, I wonder if he'd still share that opinion.
posted by mogget at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2008
I was a fan of the Doors in college, but rarely listen to them now. Still, there's nothing like driving on Venice Blvd. on a moonlit night and hearing the Doors; I always roll down the windows and crank up the speakers.
John Densmore has blocked the use of the Doors' music in commercials, saying that Jim wouldn't have wanted it. If Morrison were still alive, I wonder if he'd still share that opinion.
posted by mogget at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2008
Had Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor, survived, he'd be 300 today.
posted by languagehat at 2:39 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 2:39 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
A memory of the fanboyism of No One Here Gets Out Alive: I particularly remember an incident described from his boyhood or early teenage years. He was out tobogganing, and took the toboggan just that bit further up the slope! Then he slid down the slope extra fast & took a nasty fall!! And he grinned at the end of it!!!
And the book described this as an example of what a hardcore, devil-may-care, nihilistic hellman he was, even at an early age.
Anybody but a fanboy would think, "Hm, yes, sounds like a completely normal boy to me; what's your point again?"
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:44 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
And the book described this as an example of what a hardcore, devil-may-care, nihilistic hellman he was, even at an early age.
Anybody but a fanboy would think, "Hm, yes, sounds like a completely normal boy to me; what's your point again?"
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:44 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
UbuRoivas, isn't that the scene where he forces his younger siblings to stay on the sled while aiming it at a wall or a fence or some such?
I remember it making me think "what a dick".
Of course, it probably is unfair to judge Morrison on the basis of that book, but as much as the authors were ostensibly writing a rock god book for fanboys, it's one of those things that feels like it could have been written as a hit piece, even if it wasn't planned that way.
posted by brennen at 2:48 PM on December 8, 2008
I remember it making me think "what a dick".
Of course, it probably is unfair to judge Morrison on the basis of that book, but as much as the authors were ostensibly writing a rock god book for fanboys, it's one of those things that feels like it could have been written as a hit piece, even if it wasn't planned that way.
posted by brennen at 2:48 PM on December 8, 2008
(To clarify that hopeless muddle of a sentence, I'm not sure it's the fanboyism.)
posted by brennen at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by brennen at 2:51 PM on December 8, 2008
brennen: yes, that sounds about right; your memory is probably better than mine (it's been a long time). i'll go for 50% normal schoolboy behaviour, with 50% dickishness thrown in - which is still quite typical schoolboy behaviour anyway.
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:56 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:56 PM on December 8, 2008
I like probably an LP's worth of Doors songs spread across their entire career (some of them quite a bit), but Morrison has always come across as a fucking jerk to me. Which isn't to say jerks can't be great artists, but anyone who considers him a shaman or some shit like that is...deluded by the myth. For me, the definitive take on the guy is "Jim Morrison: Bozo Dionysus A Decade Later", by Lester Bangs:
"It was never revealed whether Hopkins shares this assessment, but the authors then go on for almost tour hundred pages, amassing mountains of evidence almost all of which can for most readers point to only one conclusion: that Jim Morrison was apparently a nigh complete asshole from the instant he popped out of the womb until he died in that bathtub in Paris (if he did indeed die there, they rather gamely leave us with). The first scene in the book takes place in 1955, when Jim was twelve years old, and finds him tobogganing with his younger brother and sister in the snowcapped mountains outside Albuquerque, New Mexico. According to Hopkins and Sugerman, Jim packed his two moppet siblings in front of him in the toboggan so they couldn't move, got up a frightening head of downhill steam and aimed the three of them straight for the roadside of a log cabin.
The toboggan was less than twenty yards from the side of the cabin on a certain, horrifying collision course. Anne stared dead ahead, the features on her face numbed by terror. Andy was whimpering.
The toboggan swept under a hitching rail and five feet from the cabin was stopped by the children's father. As the children tumbled out of the sled, Anne babbled hysterically about how Jim had pushed them forward and wouldn't let them escape. Andy continued to cry Steve and Clara Morrison tried to reassure the younger children.
Jim stood nearby looking pleased. "We we just havin' a good time," he said.
Surely an auspicious episode with which to begin recounting the life of a god. But it is only the beginning. Later we will see Jim's little brother breathing heavily at night due to chronic tonsillitis, and the future Lizard King sealing his mouth with cellophane tape and laughing at his near-suffocation. Or ridiculing a paraplegic. Or. at the age of seventeen, rubbing dogshit in his little brother's face."
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
"It was never revealed whether Hopkins shares this assessment, but the authors then go on for almost tour hundred pages, amassing mountains of evidence almost all of which can for most readers point to only one conclusion: that Jim Morrison was apparently a nigh complete asshole from the instant he popped out of the womb until he died in that bathtub in Paris (if he did indeed die there, they rather gamely leave us with). The first scene in the book takes place in 1955, when Jim was twelve years old, and finds him tobogganing with his younger brother and sister in the snowcapped mountains outside Albuquerque, New Mexico. According to Hopkins and Sugerman, Jim packed his two moppet siblings in front of him in the toboggan so they couldn't move, got up a frightening head of downhill steam and aimed the three of them straight for the roadside of a log cabin.
The toboggan was less than twenty yards from the side of the cabin on a certain, horrifying collision course. Anne stared dead ahead, the features on her face numbed by terror. Andy was whimpering.
The toboggan swept under a hitching rail and five feet from the cabin was stopped by the children's father. As the children tumbled out of the sled, Anne babbled hysterically about how Jim had pushed them forward and wouldn't let them escape. Andy continued to cry Steve and Clara Morrison tried to reassure the younger children.
Jim stood nearby looking pleased. "We we just havin' a good time," he said.
Surely an auspicious episode with which to begin recounting the life of a god. But it is only the beginning. Later we will see Jim's little brother breathing heavily at night due to chronic tonsillitis, and the future Lizard King sealing his mouth with cellophane tape and laughing at his near-suffocation. Or ridiculing a paraplegic. Or. at the age of seventeen, rubbing dogshit in his little brother's face."
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:59 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Speaking as a someone who has been a long-time Deadhead (and thus predisposed to liking a lot of '60's musical groups), Jim Morrison has always annoyed the shit out of me. His particular intersection of narcissism and nihilism always struck me as contrived and extremely exploitative of those around him. I frankly did not see the fuss -- I mean, I understood that he was a very good rock vocalist, but so were a lot of other folks who were his contemporaries, and at least some of them weren't assholes. Based on his studio work, I was (and remain) underwhelmed.
Then, some years ago, a friend played a live tape of the Doors, circa 1967, playing at the Whiskey or some other L.A. club, and I finally understood the fuss: Live, at the height of his/their powers, the Doors delivered the goods. They played psychedelic music that went to some very dark places and stayed there, the aural equivalent of going to a bullfight on acid. I could easily see how someone with a head full of psychedelics would have a very, very powerful trip at one of their shows, and could come out the other side absolutely in awe of what had transpired; indeed, it would be almost impossible not to, assuming one didn't freak out in the middle of it and just have, like, the shittiest bad trip ever. Jim Morrison was fearless when he was onstage, and reckless, and most certainly not looking out for anyone's safety. The show I heard was a white knuckle ride from the opening notes and never let up. It wasn't always brilliant, but the power these guys displayed onstage was fucking palpable.
Still, as No one gets Out of here Alive chronicles, most of the magic had ended several years before he died, making the 1969-70-era Morrison more caricature than shaman. But I have to give him his due: when he was on his game, he (and his band) were amazing. Don't judge him solely on the basis of the posthumous marketing juggernaut that has made him an iconic image on T-shirts and posters. Find a recording of one of the Doors early performances and hear for yourself -- before they got bogged down in excess, these guys absolutely tore it up.
posted by mosk at 3:09 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Then, some years ago, a friend played a live tape of the Doors, circa 1967, playing at the Whiskey or some other L.A. club, and I finally understood the fuss: Live, at the height of his/their powers, the Doors delivered the goods. They played psychedelic music that went to some very dark places and stayed there, the aural equivalent of going to a bullfight on acid. I could easily see how someone with a head full of psychedelics would have a very, very powerful trip at one of their shows, and could come out the other side absolutely in awe of what had transpired; indeed, it would be almost impossible not to, assuming one didn't freak out in the middle of it and just have, like, the shittiest bad trip ever. Jim Morrison was fearless when he was onstage, and reckless, and most certainly not looking out for anyone's safety. The show I heard was a white knuckle ride from the opening notes and never let up. It wasn't always brilliant, but the power these guys displayed onstage was fucking palpable.
Still, as No one gets Out of here Alive chronicles, most of the magic had ended several years before he died, making the 1969-70-era Morrison more caricature than shaman. But I have to give him his due: when he was on his game, he (and his band) were amazing. Don't judge him solely on the basis of the posthumous marketing juggernaut that has made him an iconic image on T-shirts and posters. Find a recording of one of the Doors early performances and hear for yourself -- before they got bogged down in excess, these guys absolutely tore it up.
posted by mosk at 3:09 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Now that I think about it, it's almost certain that I remember that scene more from reading the Bangs essay than from No One Here, but Lester Bangs' take on the book is entirely consonant with my own impressions.
I should add that I also like (some of) the Doors' output.
posted by brennen at 3:14 PM on December 8, 2008
I should add that I also like (some of) the Doors' output.
posted by brennen at 3:14 PM on December 8, 2008
Hi, I’m Jim Morrison. *walks up*
You know that it would be untrue, you know that I would be a liar, if I didn’t say to you that Super PoliGrip ultra fresh denture adhesive has a strong, all-day hold and controls denture odor. Super PoliGrip now available in original, free, ultra fresh and extra care with PoliSeal™.
The new ooze-control tip extrudes a thinner, flatter ribbon of adhesive, making it easier to apply and control, and that really *smiles* lights my fire.
*drives golf ball*
posted by Smedleyman at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
You know that it would be untrue, you know that I would be a liar, if I didn’t say to you that Super PoliGrip ultra fresh denture adhesive has a strong, all-day hold and controls denture odor. Super PoliGrip now available in original, free, ultra fresh and extra care with PoliSeal™.
The new ooze-control tip extrudes a thinner, flatter ribbon of adhesive, making it easier to apply and control, and that really *smiles* lights my fire.
*drives golf ball*
posted by Smedleyman at 3:21 PM on December 8, 2008 [4 favorites]
Break on through to another bowl of Quaker Oats. It's the right thing to do.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I always thought the lead singer of The Tea Party sounds a lot like Morrison. Even looks a little like him.
posted by bwg at 3:30 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by bwg at 3:30 PM on December 8, 2008
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
Val Kilmer is advanced. Very advanced.
posted by MarshallPoe at 3:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Val Kilmer is advanced. Very advanced.
posted by MarshallPoe at 3:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
John Densmore has blocked the use of the Doors' music in commercials, saying that Jim wouldn't have wanted it. If Morrison were still alive, I wonder if he'd still share that opinion.
Well, at least he managed to pick better quality bandmates than some. Jello Biafra got sued by his old band because he didn't want to merchandise the fuck out of Dead Kennedy's tunes.
(Also, if we're talking about Morrison wannabes, surely The Cult must be top of the list...)
posted by rodgerd at 3:41 PM on December 8, 2008
Well, at least he managed to pick better quality bandmates than some. Jello Biafra got sued by his old band because he didn't want to merchandise the fuck out of Dead Kennedy's tunes.
(Also, if we're talking about Morrison wannabes, surely The Cult must be top of the list...)
posted by rodgerd at 3:41 PM on December 8, 2008
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
What, no love for Tombstone? I sure can't think of a better ridiculous ahistorical cowboy gunfight vengeance flick with Kurt Russell in it.
posted by brennen at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2008
What, no love for Tombstone? I sure can't think of a better ridiculous ahistorical cowboy gunfight vengeance flick with Kurt Russell in it.
posted by brennen at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2008
It was that movie that taught me that German is just English played backwards.
And how to bring one's wife to orgasm.
That scene is the apex of surreal humor. No one has written anything funnier in the surrealist style than the Anal Intruder, ever.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2008
And how to bring one's wife to orgasm.
That scene is the apex of surreal humor. No one has written anything funnier in the surrealist style than the Anal Intruder, ever.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:43 PM on December 8, 2008
But at least he got to have sex with Meg Ryan back when that meant something.
posted by maxwelton at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by maxwelton at 3:47 PM on December 8, 2008
Well, at least he managed to pick better quality bandmates than some. Jello Biafra got sued by his old band because he didn't want to merchandise the fuck out of Dead Kennedy's tunes.
No, that's bullshit. They sued him because his record label, Alternative Tentacles, wasn't paying them any royalties and he lied about it. The Levi's commercial thing was just to make the other three look bad. There are really no good guys in that story, though, as the other three took the masters of DK's albums and re-released them in "remastered" versions that sound like shit, re-wrote all the credits so that DH Peligro is credited for songs that were written before he even joined, and re-formed the band with a former child star and advertised their shows such that it appeared Jello would be there when he wouldn't (using pictures from the early 80s on flyers, etc.)
Also, if we're talking about Morrison wannabes, surely The Cult must be top of the list...
Yeah, but Ian Astbury was good at it. "Fire Woman" and "She Sells Sanctuary" rock harder than the Doors ever dreamed of.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:49 PM on December 8, 2008
No, that's bullshit. They sued him because his record label, Alternative Tentacles, wasn't paying them any royalties and he lied about it. The Levi's commercial thing was just to make the other three look bad. There are really no good guys in that story, though, as the other three took the masters of DK's albums and re-released them in "remastered" versions that sound like shit, re-wrote all the credits so that DH Peligro is credited for songs that were written before he even joined, and re-formed the band with a former child star and advertised their shows such that it appeared Jello would be there when he wouldn't (using pictures from the early 80s on flyers, etc.)
Also, if we're talking about Morrison wannabes, surely The Cult must be top of the list...
Yeah, but Ian Astbury was good at it. "Fire Woman" and "She Sells Sanctuary" rock harder than the Doors ever dreamed of.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:49 PM on December 8, 2008
Although there is some truth to the story that the rest of the band was just bitter because Jello refused to sell out. They got several big-money major label offers on the condition that they change their name, and Jello always flatly refused while East Bay Ray wanted to take them, and he blames Jello because he isn't rich and famous (just like, you know, every other punk rock band that took major label offers and are lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills today). The lawsuit was about royalties, and they were justified in suing, but there may have been other motivations besides justice.
posted by DecemberBoy at 4:00 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DecemberBoy at 4:00 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
By the time you have a driver's license, you should be old enough to no longer be impressed by pretentious babble
So says the grown man wearing a Smiths t-shirt in his profile pic.
posted by jonmc at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2008 [5 favorites]
So says the grown man wearing a Smiths t-shirt in his profile pic.
posted by jonmc at 4:01 PM on December 8, 2008 [5 favorites]
I will never understand all the hate directed at Morrison and The Doors.
Even the haters will usually admit that they made some solid rock n' roll singles. That's because Jim was good. The Doors were good. Yes, Jim's act included a lot of pretentious nonsense. But that's what was : an act. Part of rock n' roll is showmanship, and Morrison was a showman to the nth degree. You might as well diss Bowie for cross-dressing, or James Brown for doing his thing with the carpet.
Sure, the "poet" and "shaman" stuff was a bunch of hype, but the only people who take that stuff seriously are highschoolers anyway. You strip away all that stuff, and what you have is actually a pretty solid rock n' roll legacy. How many "genuine" acts of the day have long since been forgotten, and for good reason?
Yes, I liked The Doors a lot more when I was in highschool. Even their gimmicky font struck a chord with me. That's why I would consider The Doors to be one of my rock n' roll training wheels. They were one of the bands that taught me how to like good music. Listen to their music; there's a lot of good stuff in there. Blues, psychedelic, pop. There's a lot of places you can go after discovering The Doors. I feel the same way about The Dead and a number of other bands that I used to like more but still appreciate.
I suspect that when people hate on The Doors, they're really hating on themselves at an earlier age. They're a little embarrassed that they liked The Doors so much, and that maybe, just maybe they bought into Jim's shaman act a little bit. I'd tell these people to relax. There was much worse music that you could have gotten into. The Doors made solid music that has stood the test of time. And that is why, 40 years later, you'll still hear their music on classic rock stations, car stereos, ipods, and yes, even teenagers' home stereo systems.
posted by Afroblanco at 4:09 PM on December 8, 2008 [7 favorites]
Even the haters will usually admit that they made some solid rock n' roll singles. That's because Jim was good. The Doors were good. Yes, Jim's act included a lot of pretentious nonsense. But that's what was : an act. Part of rock n' roll is showmanship, and Morrison was a showman to the nth degree. You might as well diss Bowie for cross-dressing, or James Brown for doing his thing with the carpet.
Sure, the "poet" and "shaman" stuff was a bunch of hype, but the only people who take that stuff seriously are highschoolers anyway. You strip away all that stuff, and what you have is actually a pretty solid rock n' roll legacy. How many "genuine" acts of the day have long since been forgotten, and for good reason?
Yes, I liked The Doors a lot more when I was in highschool. Even their gimmicky font struck a chord with me. That's why I would consider The Doors to be one of my rock n' roll training wheels. They were one of the bands that taught me how to like good music. Listen to their music; there's a lot of good stuff in there. Blues, psychedelic, pop. There's a lot of places you can go after discovering The Doors. I feel the same way about The Dead and a number of other bands that I used to like more but still appreciate.
I suspect that when people hate on The Doors, they're really hating on themselves at an earlier age. They're a little embarrassed that they liked The Doors so much, and that maybe, just maybe they bought into Jim's shaman act a little bit. I'd tell these people to relax. There was much worse music that you could have gotten into. The Doors made solid music that has stood the test of time. And that is why, 40 years later, you'll still hear their music on classic rock stations, car stereos, ipods, and yes, even teenagers' home stereo systems.
posted by Afroblanco at 4:09 PM on December 8, 2008 [7 favorites]
Even the haters will usually admit that they made some solid rock n' roll singles. That's because Jim was good. The Doors were good.
Good? Sure. Great? Especially great enough to justify the insipid cult of personality that surrounds them (at the expense of far better bands from the same era: the MC5, the Velvet Underground, Love, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Santana, etc)? No.
posted by jonmc at 4:13 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Good? Sure. Great? Especially great enough to justify the insipid cult of personality that surrounds them (at the expense of far better bands from the same era: the MC5, the Velvet Underground, Love, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Santana, etc)? No.
posted by jonmc at 4:13 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think The Doors were great in their time. But like rug burns in your Mom's orange shag carpet, they didn't age well.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2008
In really sad news, John Lennon died 28 years ago today.
posted by gman at 4:36 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by gman at 4:36 PM on December 8, 2008
Oh, the Beatles weren't really all that good.
/whistles, walks away.
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on December 8, 2008
/whistles, walks away.
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on December 8, 2008
he's whistling 'Eight Days A Week,' so don't take him too seriously.
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
So says the grown man wearing a Smiths t-shirt in his profile pic.
I'm afraid I don't understand your point at all, jonmc.
After all, Morrissey was already well over 30 when he penned all those teen-angsty lyrics.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2008
I'm afraid I don't understand your point at all, jonmc.
After all, Morrissey was already well over 30 when he penned all those teen-angsty lyrics.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:41 PM on December 8, 2008
This world is full of crashing bores.
posted by applemeat at 4:46 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by applemeat at 4:46 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've enjoyed watching the word survived take on a new definition before my eyes. As well as the usual your favourite band sucks and my taste is better dismissive bullshit. We'd have even more of that had Jim "survived".
posted by juiceCake at 4:47 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by juiceCake at 4:47 PM on December 8, 2008
I suspect that when people hate on The Doors, they're really hating on themselves at an earlier age. They're a little embarrassed that they liked The Doors so much, and that maybe, just maybe they bought into Jim's shaman act a little bit. I'd tell these people to relax. There was much worse music that you could have gotten into.
I hear you there, Afroblanco, but don't think it applies - not to me, at least. While I listened to their music, it was only ever really as a decent rock band; far short of the Jim Morrison worship that some get into. Other bands that I liked at the time (eg the Velvet Underground & the Stooges) I can still listen to happily, but somehow most of the Doors stuff just leaves me cold.
On the other hand, just the other day they were playing some live Doors recording at the pub, turned up to 11. I even remarked to the barstaff that I'd forgotten how much they could rock out when they wanted to. So, they're alright I guess, but only that.
Now, if you'd made that comment above about Hermann Hesse, I'd be in total agreement.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:47 PM on December 8, 2008
I hear you there, Afroblanco, but don't think it applies - not to me, at least. While I listened to their music, it was only ever really as a decent rock band; far short of the Jim Morrison worship that some get into. Other bands that I liked at the time (eg the Velvet Underground & the Stooges) I can still listen to happily, but somehow most of the Doors stuff just leaves me cold.
On the other hand, just the other day they were playing some live Doors recording at the pub, turned up to 11. I even remarked to the barstaff that I'd forgotten how much they could rock out when they wanted to. So, they're alright I guess, but only that.
Now, if you'd made that comment above about Hermann Hesse, I'd be in total agreement.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:47 PM on December 8, 2008
After all, Morrissey was already well over 30 when he penned all those teen-angsty lyrics.
Since Johnny Marr broke up the Smiths before Morrisey was 30 that would've been very difficult and like most of his rabid fans and haters, you give the man too much credit. I do think he's subject to the laws of time, like the rest of us. And I could've sworn the band was more than Morrisey. I mean watch that video with Marr. He's obviously even more pretentious!
Morrisey seemed to be a total git to me (though they remain a classic band), only rivaled by the pretentiousness of Cheap Trick fans for example.
posted by juiceCake at 4:55 PM on December 8, 2008
Since Johnny Marr broke up the Smiths before Morrisey was 30 that would've been very difficult and like most of his rabid fans and haters, you give the man too much credit. I do think he's subject to the laws of time, like the rest of us. And I could've sworn the band was more than Morrisey. I mean watch that video with Marr. He's obviously even more pretentious!
Morrisey seemed to be a total git to me (though they remain a classic band), only rivaled by the pretentiousness of Cheap Trick fans for example.
posted by juiceCake at 4:55 PM on December 8, 2008
they're one of those bands that you never listen to anymore but still feel like you should defend them on metafilter.
posted by saul wright at 4:58 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by saul wright at 4:58 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
If Jim Morrison was alive today, he'd be dead.
Best response here Astro Zombie. I really loved it.
If one lived during that period the Doors were sometimes clever, but the music could also be dopey and surely self-indulgent, (escept the real srtistry of The Soft Parade, a great rock suite) a persistent trait of the times. Morrison thought himself far more intelligent than he was, of course. Just listen to his (whiskey-drenched) poetry reading some time -- it is truly horrendous and stupifying.
posted by Seekerofsplendor at 5:12 PM on December 8, 2008
Best response here Astro Zombie. I really loved it.
If one lived during that period the Doors were sometimes clever, but the music could also be dopey and surely self-indulgent, (escept the real srtistry of The Soft Parade, a great rock suite) a persistent trait of the times. Morrison thought himself far more intelligent than he was, of course. Just listen to his (whiskey-drenched) poetry reading some time -- it is truly horrendous and stupifying.
posted by Seekerofsplendor at 5:12 PM on December 8, 2008
they're one of those bands that you never listen to anymore but still feel like you should defend them on metafilter.
wait, what utter bastard dares to criticise the Cocteau Twins?
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:14 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
wait, what utter bastard dares to criticise the Cocteau Twins?
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:14 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
The two things I think about when I think about the Doors:
First, my gramma was, like, the hugest Jim Morrison fan. Not really a Doors fan, though she owned all their albums, rather she was way into the sexy Morrison posters and even had a screen-printed mirror that she had up in the spare bedroom for far too long. She complained bitterly that Morrison hadn't worn his see-through vinyl pants when she saw him in Chicago (having just been busted in Miami not too long before).
While I often liked the Doors, it was always filtered through that, that both my mom and my gramma really liked 'em (though my mom, I think, dug the music more than the sexy Morrison thing). I could never rebel with the Doors, so I went from liking the singles to not liking them at all to having a freakout acid trip to the Crystal Ship to thinking they were OK in small doses. But I was always vaguely embarrassed for my classmates who were really into them, especially Jim's poetry (though that cute girl Julia who read his stuff in my English class ended up recommending Greil Marcus's Lipstick Traces a couple years later, something that changed how I thought about punk).
The second thing that I think of is this old promo album that they had at WCBN, which was all these singles that Ray Manzarek had produced, sent out for Elektra. He narrated between them, all California (even though he's mostly from Chicago) about how this next band is really doin' mind-blowing music, man, so let's give it up for X! And then every song on the album, which (despite forgetting its real name) my girlfriend and I dubbed The Ray Manzarek Experience, had an organ solo right in the middle (including the track from X). We cobbled together this alternate mythology for Manzarek, who we portray as an arch egoist in the McCartney vein, as doing things like rereleasing all the Doors albums without Morrison as the Ray Manzarek Experience, or lobbying successfully for a law that requires Venice, Ca. to always be playing a Doors song somewhere (or a RMX song), preferably along the beach. We imagine him with a cape.
It's helped, somewhat, for me to separate out the goofy Doors stuff from the crazy psych stuff, as I can always think, oh, that's just another Ray Manzarek Experience featuring Jim Morrison song.
posted by klangklangston at 5:15 PM on December 8, 2008
First, my gramma was, like, the hugest Jim Morrison fan. Not really a Doors fan, though she owned all their albums, rather she was way into the sexy Morrison posters and even had a screen-printed mirror that she had up in the spare bedroom for far too long. She complained bitterly that Morrison hadn't worn his see-through vinyl pants when she saw him in Chicago (having just been busted in Miami not too long before).
While I often liked the Doors, it was always filtered through that, that both my mom and my gramma really liked 'em (though my mom, I think, dug the music more than the sexy Morrison thing). I could never rebel with the Doors, so I went from liking the singles to not liking them at all to having a freakout acid trip to the Crystal Ship to thinking they were OK in small doses. But I was always vaguely embarrassed for my classmates who were really into them, especially Jim's poetry (though that cute girl Julia who read his stuff in my English class ended up recommending Greil Marcus's Lipstick Traces a couple years later, something that changed how I thought about punk).
The second thing that I think of is this old promo album that they had at WCBN, which was all these singles that Ray Manzarek had produced, sent out for Elektra. He narrated between them, all California (even though he's mostly from Chicago) about how this next band is really doin' mind-blowing music, man, so let's give it up for X! And then every song on the album, which (despite forgetting its real name) my girlfriend and I dubbed The Ray Manzarek Experience, had an organ solo right in the middle (including the track from X). We cobbled together this alternate mythology for Manzarek, who we portray as an arch egoist in the McCartney vein, as doing things like rereleasing all the Doors albums without Morrison as the Ray Manzarek Experience, or lobbying successfully for a law that requires Venice, Ca. to always be playing a Doors song somewhere (or a RMX song), preferably along the beach. We imagine him with a cape.
It's helped, somewhat, for me to separate out the goofy Doors stuff from the crazy psych stuff, as I can always think, oh, that's just another Ray Manzarek Experience featuring Jim Morrison song.
posted by klangklangston at 5:15 PM on December 8, 2008
I suspect that when people hate on The Doors, they're really hating on themselves at an earlier age. They're a little embarrassed that they liked The Doors so much,
So, so, true.
I feel zero shame about smoking weed and listening to the Doors and Pink Floyd when I was a teenager. In fact I look on those days very fondly. I don't feel any shame for secretly going to discos to meet girls, either. Most my peers of the time only wish they were that smart.
Your supposed to be overwrought and silly when your young. That's what makes it so awesome.
posted by tkchrist at 5:19 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
So, so, true.
I feel zero shame about smoking weed and listening to the Doors and Pink Floyd when I was a teenager. In fact I look on those days very fondly. I don't feel any shame for secretly going to discos to meet girls, either. Most my peers of the time only wish they were that smart.
Your supposed to be overwrought and silly when your young. That's what makes it so awesome.
posted by tkchrist at 5:19 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
"My Eyes Have Seen You" iss the only time Jimbo lived up to his poetic ambitions since 'gazing on a city under television skies' is a very potent image to anyone who's ever been on an urban rooftop.
posted by jonmc at 5:21 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by jonmc at 5:21 PM on December 8, 2008
So says the grown man wearing a Smiths t-shirt in his profile pic.
Sigh... I really do need to get around to installing my Greasemonkey ignore script on all my computers. Thanks for reminding me. Do you enjoy being an annoying prick all the time, or do you really just have nothing else to say?
posted by DecemberBoy at 5:22 PM on December 8, 2008
Sigh... I really do need to get around to installing my Greasemonkey ignore script on all my computers. Thanks for reminding me. Do you enjoy being an annoying prick all the time, or do you really just have nothing else to say?
posted by DecemberBoy at 5:22 PM on December 8, 2008
AND aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
Kiss. Kiss. Bang. Bang.
posted by tkchrist at 5:23 PM on December 8, 2008
Kiss. Kiss. Bang. Bang.
posted by tkchrist at 5:23 PM on December 8, 2008
Wow. The hate got turned on fast.
It's just music, boys. Juuuust music.
posted by tkchrist at 5:24 PM on December 8, 2008
It's just music, boys. Juuuust music.
posted by tkchrist at 5:24 PM on December 8, 2008
Haha. I was about to tell DecemberBoy to lighten up about the Smiths zing.
You know that you're over-reacting when it's me and tkchrist are coming to say, "Whoa there, no need to get upset."
posted by klangklangston at 5:29 PM on December 8, 2008
You know that you're over-reacting when it's me and tkchrist are coming to say, "Whoa there, no need to get upset."
posted by klangklangston at 5:29 PM on December 8, 2008
Live, at the height of his/their powers, the Doors delivered the goods. They played psychedelic music that went to some very dark places and stayed there, the aural equivalent of going to a bullfight on acid. I could easily see how someone with a head full of psychedelics would have a very, very powerful trip at one of their shows, and could come out the other side absolutely in awe of what had transpired; indeed, it would be almost impossible not to, assuming one didn't freak out in the middle of it and just have, like, the shittiest bad trip ever. Jim Morrison was fearless when he was onstage, and reckless, and most certainly not looking out for anyone's safety. The show I heard was a white knuckle ride from the opening notes and never let up. It wasn't always brilliant, but the power these guys displayed onstage was fucking palpable.
Dropping acid can make just about anything seem more awesome than awesome. Or more nightmarish.
Just look at the Grateful Dead. I went sober accidentally once. I thought I was seeing the wrong band. I was like "What are those out-of-tune squares doing up there. I want The Dead."
posted by tkchrist at 5:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Dropping acid can make just about anything seem more awesome than awesome. Or more nightmarish.
Just look at the Grateful Dead. I went sober accidentally once. I thought I was seeing the wrong band. I was like "What are those out-of-tune squares doing up there. I want The Dead."
posted by tkchrist at 5:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Doors jumped the shark in 1969. I almost feel sorry for Jim Morrison and the way he was.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:35 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:35 PM on December 8, 2008
You guys are why they make dolls of these singers. You should get together and tight them in person. "Die, Morrissey! Pchaow, pchaow!!! My Open Shirt and Beads power totally owns your Striking Pompodour action!" *plastic clacking on plastic*
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:36 PM on December 8, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:36 PM on December 8, 2008 [6 favorites]
troybob - Not sure if adding more liquid to the tub is the best idea.
posted by gman at 5:49 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by gman at 5:49 PM on December 8, 2008
What happens if Handsome Dick comes out as a Smiths fan?
posted by stinkycheese at 6:25 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by stinkycheese at 6:25 PM on December 8, 2008
Just look at the Grateful Dead. I went sober accidentally once.
I ONLY saw the Dead sober - god help me, but I was 19 and in a city I'd never been (DC) and had no idea how to score.
It was HORRIBLE, it makes me sad to this day, 20 years later, that I wasn't high. I wanted to love it, instead I drank 3 shitty stadium beers and took the awful train back to Baltimore where I was living with my gay boyfriend and that was the night I tried to do him but he pushed me away because he was, well, GAY and I didn't know it, and........
Fuck the Doors, man.
posted by tristeza at 6:48 PM on December 8, 2008
I ONLY saw the Dead sober - god help me, but I was 19 and in a city I'd never been (DC) and had no idea how to score.
It was HORRIBLE, it makes me sad to this day, 20 years later, that I wasn't high. I wanted to love it, instead I drank 3 shitty stadium beers and took the awful train back to Baltimore where I was living with my gay boyfriend and that was the night I tried to do him but he pushed me away because he was, well, GAY and I didn't know it, and........
Fuck the Doors, man.
posted by tristeza at 6:48 PM on December 8, 2008
I was, and still am, a huge Doors fan. My college room mate and I had custom t-shirts made that featured a "Celebration of the Lizard" image. At the time, 1982, color photocopying and subsequent t-shirt printing was still somewhat "cutting edge". We were proud of our special shirts.
I remember my all-time favorite Doors cover. Soundgarden played Lollapalooza in 92 and 96, and I believe they used to open their 96 set with a cover of "Waiting for the Sun". They played a "secret" show at the Showbox in Seattle shortly thereafter, and opened that set as well with the Doors cover. Waiting for the Sun is naturally "heavy", and so was a perfect song for a band like Soundgarden to cover.
All gone now...
posted by Tube at 6:50 PM on December 8, 2008
I remember my all-time favorite Doors cover. Soundgarden played Lollapalooza in 92 and 96, and I believe they used to open their 96 set with a cover of "Waiting for the Sun". They played a "secret" show at the Showbox in Seattle shortly thereafter, and opened that set as well with the Doors cover. Waiting for the Sun is naturally "heavy", and so was a perfect song for a band like Soundgarden to cover.
All gone now...
posted by Tube at 6:50 PM on December 8, 2008
The Doors is the one of the few bands from my 60's that just hasn't held up. A few songs are still fun to listen to, "Roadhouse Blues" is always the first to come to mind. Hendrix, Cream, Yardbirds, the other bands I discovered around that time I still listen to.
Oh, Jim Morrison was alive in 1973 or 1974, my dad got a picture of him along with Mickey Mouse and I at Disney World when I was 11. Check out the guy on the left.
posted by marxchivist at 7:10 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh, Jim Morrison was alive in 1973 or 1974, my dad got a picture of him along with Mickey Mouse and I at Disney World when I was 11. Check out the guy on the left.
posted by marxchivist at 7:10 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. You know that new Depeche Mode album, it sucks. I can say this, cuz I know. Cause I'm
a Doors
Fan.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
a Doors
Fan.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:16 PM on December 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
Wow, I didn't realize there was a sketch version.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:20 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:20 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
He was the '60s Elvis, and I loved the fucker for it. Totally narcissistic, totally on fire and ready to burn through his life and luck in a hurry. He had a great band behind him and happened to come around when the drugs got interesting.
Yeah, pretentious and too full of himself, too clever for his own good and a pain in the ass to people around him, yet he had these followers. Sorta like Hunter S. Thompson. But like HST, he also had some real brilliance which sort of justifies the fan worship, but I can understand why some people wouldn't want to put up with the bullshit to get to it. They were both sort of overgrown adolescents, except HST lived about 40 years longer. He was also better with words, most of the time.
I should mention that the first band I was ever in played Roadhouse Blues at our first gig (and I think every time we played, pretty much). Hearing Riders on the Storm in a the rain driving down a highway at night is still a grand experience. And I really love the whole "An American Prayer" album, mostly because the band is seriously tight, but also because it had a central position in my early psychedelic experiences. It's in my brain and it ain't coming out ...
posted by krinklyfig at 7:31 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah, pretentious and too full of himself, too clever for his own good and a pain in the ass to people around him, yet he had these followers. Sorta like Hunter S. Thompson. But like HST, he also had some real brilliance which sort of justifies the fan worship, but I can understand why some people wouldn't want to put up with the bullshit to get to it. They were both sort of overgrown adolescents, except HST lived about 40 years longer. He was also better with words, most of the time.
I should mention that the first band I was ever in played Roadhouse Blues at our first gig (and I think every time we played, pretty much). Hearing Riders on the Storm in a the rain driving down a highway at night is still a grand experience. And I really love the whole "An American Prayer" album, mostly because the band is seriously tight, but also because it had a central position in my early psychedelic experiences. It's in my brain and it ain't coming out ...
posted by krinklyfig at 7:31 PM on December 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Lately I've become annoyed with the usage, unique to Metafilter, of the period as a comment whenever anyone dies. To me it says "I don't have enough respect for a moment of silence and I don't have enough time to give a eulogy". Not only is it waaaay overused, it now lacks any form of creativity.
That's why I propose a whole new symbol system to handle the inevitable mortality of famous people.
For example, if a famous person dies after living an exciting and interesting life, the appropriate comment should be:
.!
If the famous person dies under mysterious circumstances, the comment should read:
.?
If two famous people die simultaneously, we must comment:
:
When the person survives a long illness and then dies:
--------.
People who die screaming for help should be respected with Morse code:
...---... .
A short drop in health leading to death will be respected thus:
\.
A brief rise to fame followed by an untimely death:
/.
People who die in memorable locations should be handled as in the following example:
.@Paris
And someone who died decades ago may still be respected provided an empty line is given for each year since his or her death, then followed by a period. I will not illustrate.
So important is my innovation that I have chosen to publish it here, the 116th comment of this thread.
Please update your behavior accordingly.
posted by twoleftfeet at 7:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
That's why I propose a whole new symbol system to handle the inevitable mortality of famous people.
For example, if a famous person dies after living an exciting and interesting life, the appropriate comment should be:
.!
If the famous person dies under mysterious circumstances, the comment should read:
.?
If two famous people die simultaneously, we must comment:
:
When the person survives a long illness and then dies:
--------.
People who die screaming for help should be respected with Morse code:
...---... .
A short drop in health leading to death will be respected thus:
\.
A brief rise to fame followed by an untimely death:
/.
People who die in memorable locations should be handled as in the following example:
.@Paris
And someone who died decades ago may still be respected provided an empty line is given for each year since his or her death, then followed by a period. I will not illustrate.
So important is my innovation that I have chosen to publish it here, the 116th comment of this thread.
Please update your behavior accordingly.
posted by twoleftfeet at 7:34 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
the soft parade is here to stay, everything must be this way....
posted by Afroblanco at 8:30 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Afroblanco at 8:30 PM on December 8, 2008
i mean, seriously, if this is wrong, I don't wanna know what's right
posted by Afroblanco at 8:45 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Afroblanco at 8:45 PM on December 8, 2008
When I was loading stuff onto my MP3 player I was shocked at how many Doors songs made the cut. I guess I like more by them than I thought (or admitted). They're not up there with many of the greats from their era, but they have a lot of songs that still hold up today and sound good. For many years I dismissed the Doors as a band for high school girls looking for easy-to-digest depth in their pop songs, but I'll be damned if those songs didn't keep popping back into my head.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 9:15 PM on December 8, 2008
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 9:15 PM on December 8, 2008
I ONLY saw the Dead sober - god help me, but I was 19 and in a city I'd never been (DC) and had no idea how to score.
It was HORRIBLE, it makes me sad to this day, 20 years later, that I wasn't high.
I think it depends. If you like their music, if you catch a good night then it was still well worth it. When they were on, they were really on, and I have seen them all sorts of ways. But their bad nights as a sober attendee weren't that fun at all, like when Jerry was smacked out (and those nights weren't all that great tripping, either). The JGB were tighter, though, and generally you had a much better chance of a good show regardless of your mental state.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:17 PM on December 8, 2008
It was HORRIBLE, it makes me sad to this day, 20 years later, that I wasn't high.
I think it depends. If you like their music, if you catch a good night then it was still well worth it. When they were on, they were really on, and I have seen them all sorts of ways. But their bad nights as a sober attendee weren't that fun at all, like when Jerry was smacked out (and those nights weren't all that great tripping, either). The JGB were tighter, though, and generally you had a much better chance of a good show regardless of your mental state.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:17 PM on December 8, 2008
if jim morrison had lived, he would be a regular on the 700 club, given much to fire and brimstone sermons - and i say that as a doors fan
they were an utterly great rock and roll band in 1967 that struggled to find its way afterwards - and jim morrison being a pretentious drunken asshole didn't help matters - if you've heard the matrix tapes, you know why they were a legendary group - for one thing, they're as tight as that first album is - name me one rock band that could pull off that level of musicianship in 1967 in a live context - that first album was a revelation - my local am station actually got to the point where it was playing the ALBUM version of light my fire instead of the single version - you have no idea what an utter revelation something like that was to people who had never heard anything like it - which was just about damn near everyone
after that - well, you had to be pretty damn ingenious to keep up with everything that was going down musically in the 60s and the doors weren't quite fast enough to pick up on that, nor were they quite consistent enough, although their last two albums with morrison shows that they were able to make the transition into 70s rock and lose their old sound
people forget this, but organ was kind of a rhythm section type of instrument until ray manzarek showed it could be as prominent as lead guitar - robbie krieger is a good and rather unique guitarist - he pretty much came up with his own style when a lot of guitarists were flashing through pentatonic scales and copping licks from the yardbirds and the stones - john densmore is one of the great rock and roll drummers
and then there was the asshole up front - truth is, i think he had a sincere wish to be that shaman, that poet - truth is, i don't think he had the talent or the ability to introspect and lose one's ego that would have required - there are brilliant lines and a lot of banalities - as time went on, he took himself more seriously, but not to the point where he felt an obligation to sing in tune or learn to phrase more effectively, or god forbid, edit himself and focus on what he wanted to say
truth is the guy needed a kick in the ass and a month in rehab - and his band didn't know how to give it to him
in some ways, the doors were as real life as their pretensions made them out to me - frustrating, incomplete and full of what could have beens ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:23 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
they were an utterly great rock and roll band in 1967 that struggled to find its way afterwards - and jim morrison being a pretentious drunken asshole didn't help matters - if you've heard the matrix tapes, you know why they were a legendary group - for one thing, they're as tight as that first album is - name me one rock band that could pull off that level of musicianship in 1967 in a live context - that first album was a revelation - my local am station actually got to the point where it was playing the ALBUM version of light my fire instead of the single version - you have no idea what an utter revelation something like that was to people who had never heard anything like it - which was just about damn near everyone
after that - well, you had to be pretty damn ingenious to keep up with everything that was going down musically in the 60s and the doors weren't quite fast enough to pick up on that, nor were they quite consistent enough, although their last two albums with morrison shows that they were able to make the transition into 70s rock and lose their old sound
people forget this, but organ was kind of a rhythm section type of instrument until ray manzarek showed it could be as prominent as lead guitar - robbie krieger is a good and rather unique guitarist - he pretty much came up with his own style when a lot of guitarists were flashing through pentatonic scales and copping licks from the yardbirds and the stones - john densmore is one of the great rock and roll drummers
and then there was the asshole up front - truth is, i think he had a sincere wish to be that shaman, that poet - truth is, i don't think he had the talent or the ability to introspect and lose one's ego that would have required - there are brilliant lines and a lot of banalities - as time went on, he took himself more seriously, but not to the point where he felt an obligation to sing in tune or learn to phrase more effectively, or god forbid, edit himself and focus on what he wanted to say
truth is the guy needed a kick in the ass and a month in rehab - and his band didn't know how to give it to him
in some ways, the doors were as real life as their pretensions made them out to me - frustrating, incomplete and full of what could have beens ...
posted by pyramid termite at 9:23 PM on December 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
I suspect that when people hate on The Doors, they're really hating on themselves at an earlier age. They're a little embarrassed that they liked The Doors so much,
I wish I could say that for every band that I liked and others didn't.
"Oh, this is my jam. Turn this up!"
"Ew, Styx? What's wrong with you?"
"Pfft. Everyone loved Styx. What's the matter, too cool to admit it now?"
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:50 PM on December 8, 2008
I wish I could say that for every band that I liked and others didn't.
"Oh, this is my jam. Turn this up!"
"Ew, Styx? What's wrong with you?"
"Pfft. Everyone loved Styx. What's the matter, too cool to admit it now?"
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 10:50 PM on December 8, 2008
If Jim Morrison was alive today, The Doors of the 21st Century - apparently they're now Riders on the Storm - wouldn't have been able to pack state fairs and summer festivals brought to you by Mountain Dew. It would just be The Doors embarrassing themselves and their audience of fratboys and burn outs, and Ian Astbury would have been denied an easy pay check. Who would want to live in that kind of a world?
And Bruce McCollugh would never have written the skit that, upon preview, that rotten Ambrosia Voyeur beat me to posting for The Kids in the Hall. And my life would have less laughter because of it. Again, who would want to live in that kind of a world?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:28 AM on December 9, 2008
And Bruce McCollugh would never have written the skit that, upon preview, that rotten Ambrosia Voyeur beat me to posting for The Kids in the Hall. And my life would have less laughter because of it. Again, who would want to live in that kind of a world?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:28 AM on December 9, 2008
aside from Real Genius, what would Val Kilmer's claim to fame have been?
Remarkable performances in just about every movie, good or bad, that he's ever been in.
To my way of thinking, at any rate.
Morrison? Musicwise, it was embarrassing downhill from album one. I mean really, hard to stifle a giggle when he's getting all mystical and stuff.
posted by IndigoJones at 6:13 AM on December 9, 2008
Remarkable performances in just about every movie, good or bad, that he's ever been in.
To my way of thinking, at any rate.
Morrison? Musicwise, it was embarrassing downhill from album one. I mean really, hard to stifle a giggle when he's getting all mystical and stuff.
posted by IndigoJones at 6:13 AM on December 9, 2008
Marisa Stole the Precious Thing said
Although I think his true mission was to DO ... all the girls. Which is both pure and corrupt at the same time.
The guys that I've seen that pull these sorts of stunts tend to get more of the pretty, broken girls than I do. Morrison's Secret!
posted by krilli at 6:19 AM on December 9, 2008
Morrison's journey, I think, was to DO all the things that are supposed to make someone intelligent, or enlightened, or deep, without actually letting the lessons sink in.That is exactly how I've always felt about his persona.
Although I think his true mission was to DO ... all the girls. Which is both pure and corrupt at the same time.
The guys that I've seen that pull these sorts of stunts tend to get more of the pretty, broken girls than I do. Morrison's Secret!
posted by krilli at 6:19 AM on December 9, 2008
Elvis of the 60s
I like that. Like Danzig was the Elvis of the 80s.
Also, I love Wooden Shjips. Thought I'd just put that out there.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:52 AM on December 9, 2008
I like that. Like Danzig was the Elvis of the 80s.
Also, I love Wooden Shjips. Thought I'd just put that out there.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:52 AM on December 9, 2008
"Pfft. Everyone loved Styx. What's the matter, too cool to admit it now?"
Hey, if Journey can make a comeback, anything is possible.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:00 AM on December 9, 2008
Hey, if Journey can make a comeback, anything is possible.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:00 AM on December 9, 2008
A narcissitic rock star. (I read the book, in high school, way back when).
All those arrogant rock stars and their trashing of hotel rooms. WTF
Things I like about the Doors : the creepy tremelo drenched minor masterpiece that is roders on the Storm, and LA Woman. Never really liked Light My Fire.
"He was the '60s Elvis, and I loved the fucker for it."
Just like Marc Bolan was the 70s Buddy Holly! had to say it.
rock on rockologists !
posted by celerystick at 9:59 AM on December 9, 2008
All those arrogant rock stars and their trashing of hotel rooms. WTF
Things I like about the Doors : the creepy tremelo drenched minor masterpiece that is roders on the Storm, and LA Woman. Never really liked Light My Fire.
"He was the '60s Elvis, and I loved the fucker for it."
Just like Marc Bolan was the 70s Buddy Holly! had to say it.
rock on rockologists !
posted by celerystick at 9:59 AM on December 9, 2008
I would wake up early when DC 101 was running their Doors biography series on Sunday mornings. One of the things I'm proudest of my Mom for was having the good sense and compassion not to cringe when I made her listen to some of the passages I had recorded off the radio, usually of Densmore going on about something. For whatever reason, they were a big part of my high school years, if for no other reason than helping me with the gigantic existential morass of high school and adolescence. Now I hear them and still think they hold up incredibly well, but the shamanistic poet stuff was never what did it for me. I have nothing but good feelings for whatever they were trying to create, because if nothing else, it seemed genuine. I'm much more embarrassed that I ever listened to the Moody Blues.
posted by docpops at 3:34 PM on December 9, 2008
posted by docpops at 3:34 PM on December 9, 2008
Like Danzig was the Elvis of the 80s.
Funny, I think he sounds more like Morrison in that song. "American Nightmare", on the other hand, sounds like pure Elvis to me. Apart from, you know, the lyrics.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:39 PM on December 9, 2008
Funny, I think he sounds more like Morrison in that song. "American Nightmare", on the other hand, sounds like pure Elvis to me. Apart from, you know, the lyrics.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:39 PM on December 9, 2008
Oh, dear - I just remembered that I played The End specifically to mark the occasion, before heading off to my last ever day of high school.
There obviously wasn't much thought or reason behind it, other than the "This is the end" line, and the fact that I obviously didn't own a copy of School's Out, by Cliff Richard.
I'd need to modify the lyrics a bit for it to be relevant to the situation, though, eg:
The student awoke after dawn
He put his boots on
He took his bag from under the bed
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where the toilet was, and...then he
Paid a visit to the kitchen, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and went outside
...and met up with friends under the harbour bridge & drank cheap champagne that the tallest, oldest-looking guy had bought on behalf of everybody else after we had pitched in a few bucks each, a few days earlier...
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:20 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
There obviously wasn't much thought or reason behind it, other than the "This is the end" line, and the fact that I obviously didn't own a copy of School's Out, by Cliff Richard.
I'd need to modify the lyrics a bit for it to be relevant to the situation, though, eg:
The student awoke after dawn
He put his boots on
He took his bag from under the bed
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where the toilet was, and...then he
Paid a visit to the kitchen, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and went outside
...and met up with friends under the harbour bridge & drank cheap champagne that the tallest, oldest-looking guy had bought on behalf of everybody else after we had pitched in a few bucks each, a few days earlier...
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:20 PM on December 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
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How can you survive being yourself!? Every choose-your-own adventure avenue in the Jim Morrison book has him dead before 60.
I think it was Grace Slick I saw on television the other day, talking about how they'd walk down the street, both bands dispersed over the sidewalks, wandering Amsterdam, and people would offer them drugs, and they'd say "no thanks," or maybe take one hit off a joint. Jim, the ol' champ, took everything he was offered.
I still wonder if his story is one of a sort of nihilism or, rather, the ironic secret within jubilance: burning hot and fast. His frenetic voyages seem to have been mostly to dark places, which puzzles me.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:15 PM on December 8, 2008 [6 favorites]