Letting It Go, or Not

January 13, 2009 12:49 PM

Prominent blogger Andrew Sullivan develops an unhealthy obsession over the (lack of) details surrounding the birth of Sarah Palin's youngest child. Sullivan really, really won't let it go. Persistent rumors lead the editor of the Alaska Daily News to, "finally decide, after watching this go on unabated for months, to let a reporter try to do a story about the 'conspiracy theory that would not die' and, possibly, report the facts of Trig's birth thoroughly enough to kill the nonsense once and for all." Palin releases press release slamming the paper. Editor of paper publishes email from Palin's office along with his response. Palin complains about "bored, anonymous, pathetic bloggers who lie," says episode is, "more indication of continued problems in the world of journalism." She also thinks Katie Couric is bad at journalism, not the center of everybody's universe, and is exploiting Palin. Mike Huckabee disagrees, says Couric was "extraordinarily gentle" with Palin. Political pundits and journalists are left scratching their heads - is she crazy? Or a crazy genius? 2012 is just around the corner.
posted by billysumday (188 comments total)

NO! MORE! PALIN!!!!!!!
posted by Afroblanco at 12:52 PM on January 13, 2009 [31 favorites]

this is how your post makes me feel
posted by The Whelk at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Can we not do this anymore? Please?
posted by Graygorey at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

I travel to northern Canada for work, and Sarah Palin (her big hair, crude beauty, harsh twangy accent, angular designer glasses, her hatred and contempt for anything from down south in the Big City, where we have everything handed to us) is a depressingly familiar personality type.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm just vaccinating you all to the next four (eight? sixteen?) years of the United Palin States of America. She will never go away!
posted by billysumday at 12:56 PM on January 13, 2009

I usually enjoy Sullivan's blog (since he became anti-bush) but his obsession with Sarah Palin's vagina has been pretty gross. I wonder if she's secretly making him question his gayness.
posted by delmoi at 12:57 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

She will never go away!

Nah. She's toast. And I'm quite frankly sick of hearing about her. Although the names of all her children do make me wonder whether she's having a family or a soap opera.
posted by jonmc at 12:59 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

"bored, anonymous, pathetic bloggers"

Lord I hate having to agree with this woman.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:00 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I like how Palin's daughter is now off limits, right after running a campaign where she trotted out her children on stage, day after day, night after night. The hypocrisy is almost as disgusting as how she and her supporters keeping gaming the system.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:00 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Virgin birth? the MSM journalists stink. Thank god conservative septic tank Pajamas Media sent Joe the Plumber to report on the Israeli/Hamas war. Joe, sharp reporter, says Israel military is right not to allow reporters near war zone. And that is Joe's war report. Lefties should be pleased that Palin stays in limelight. She appeals to redneck crowd and angers the 20 intelligent conservatives left in the country.
posted by Postroad at 1:00 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm with jonmc here. I am all Palin'ed out. I think she should be contained in AK preferably in a block of ice.
posted by a3matrix at 1:00 PM on January 13, 2009

She will never go away!

She totally will if you stop talking about her!
posted by shmegegge at 1:01 PM on January 13, 2009

Oh by the way, she might run for Senate in '2010 against Lisa Murkowski. Fun fact, Lisa's father Frank used to be governer, and Palin defeated him in a primary after he became embroiled in a typical Alaska scandal (lots of favors from Oil companies). Before he was governor he held the same senate seat her daughter does, and appointed her to fill it after he became governor.

Since then Lisa has won one senate re-election, in '04. She's not all that well liked in Alaska, due to the corrupt way she got the seat initially and Palin could probably beat her.
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on January 13, 2009

I was hoping she'd name the new one Joe The Baby.
posted by mattdidthat at 1:02 PM on January 13, 2009 [19 favorites]

I usually enjoy Sullivan's blog (since he became anti-bush) but his obsession with Sarah Palin's vagina has been pretty gross. I wonder if she's secretly making him question his gayness.

I should think she'd affirm it.

Palin and her family will be with us for a good time yet as the Paris Hilton of politics. I don't care as long as she doesn't manage to hustle her way into a position of actual power. Personally I am looking forward to the next gubernatorial election in Alaska. My hope is that Palin will be thoroughly trounced in it.

I made a Palin comment about my mother's new glasses when I was home at Christmas and I got the most rarefied glare I've gotten from her since I was an adolescent.
posted by orange swan at 1:03 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

She totally will if you stop talking about her!

Your faith in the power of Metafilter is charming, sweet, and delightful. Sadly (while I personally think 2012 is far enough away for a few less-insane GOP governors to emerge as national figureheads) I reckon she'll be assigned to vacuum-filling duties for a good year yet.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 1:04 PM on January 13, 2009

Flag and move on, bitches.
posted by fixedgear at 1:04 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Lisa[...] Frank used to be governer

Really? Wow.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:05 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I thought about posting this over at politicalfilter, then realized I didn't want to gawk at train wrecks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:07 PM on January 13, 2009

Knock this fucking shit off!!!
posted by chillmost at 1:11 PM on January 13, 2009

I thought everyone knew that the baby was her daughters. I read it on the Internet.
posted by chunking express at 1:11 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Man.
posted by plexi at 1:12 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

The idea that Palin might be popular among conservative Republicans is baffling to me, considering that she (more than anyone else) lost the election for them.
posted by jonmc at 1:14 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I usually enjoy Sullivan's blog (since he became anti-bush) but his obsession with Sarah Palin's vagina has been pretty gross.

Seconded. Of all the things Palin can be slammed for - and should be - this is the drum he chose to beat? Apart from it being a disgusting little obsession of his, if this Palin story were true, I would actually have to respect her for trying to defend her daughter's honor like that. And I'm not ready to respect Sarah Palin. But more importantly, it's a nutty conspiracy theory that makes Sullivan look a bit unhinged.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:15 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

I will never get sick of Palin threads. I want to build a giant statue of her like The Motherland Calls, only she'll be bundled in a heavy parka, holding aloft a hunting rifle in her right hand and some venison jerky in the left. To the downfall of the GOP! Huzzah!
posted by stavrogin at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

jonmc, conservative republicans are dumb asses. They probably think they lost the election because of the liberal media and black people voting illegally.
posted by chunking express at 1:16 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't know, I think there's a lot of mileage in that birth story...
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's a strange story. To quote Mulder, I want to believe.

The Dish went out and interviewed eight of the leading obstetricians in the country and laid out all the facts of the case and asked the experts for their take. While none would say that this pregnancy could not have happened, and none would comment on a case they hadn't examined personally, all of them said it was one of the strangest and unlikeliest series of events they had ever heard of and found Palin's decision to forgo medical help for more than a day after her water broke and risk the life of her unborn child on a long airplane trip to be reckless beyond measure.

posted by chunking express at 1:20 PM on January 13, 2009 [11 favorites]

I usually handle the obsessive conspiracy theorizing in the household. But Mrs. Beese is dead certain it's the daughter's baby. FWIW.

And yeah, Sully really lost his shit over this.
posted by Joe Beese at 1:23 PM on January 13, 2009

chunking express: look at it this way-Sarah Palin is the right-wing equivalent of Walter Mondale. I think those who run things in the GOP are quite wisely working on ways to distance themselves from her.
posted by jonmc at 1:23 PM on January 13, 2009

Katie Couric? Bad at journalism?

Well, yeah.

It still didn't stop Palin from looking like a twit.
posted by Dr-Baa at 1:23 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

I would actually have to respect her for trying to defend her daughter's honor like that.

This.

I find all the commentary on Palin as a mother facinating, in a train wreck sort of way.

After all, the Obama girls have been "trotted out" as well, but everyone seems to agree that they're off limits (as they should be). Having your children make some public appearances with you where they stand on stage but don't say anything shouldn't really make them a target of ... well, a target for everything.

Don't get me wrong, I abhor Palin and every political thing she stands for, but as a working mother I also kind of admire the way that she's very public about what she needs to do to balance work and family life. I wish more women in politics - Hillary included - would feel free to stand up and say "this is hard work, but I'm going to do both".

Also, to Sullivan's point, there are multiple folks who will attest to seeing her breastfeed the babe in her office. It would be difficult (although not impossible) for her to do this if she had not given birth.
posted by anastasiav at 1:24 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Lefties should be pleased that Palin stays in limelight. She appeals to redneck crowd and angers the 20 intelligent conservatives left in the country.

...Rorschach?
posted by hifiparasol at 1:25 PM on January 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

Palin is the archetype motherfigure with her rosy red lips and luxurious dark eyes. An obsession with her reproductive faculty is completely normal, and in fact healthy.
posted by norabarnacl3 at 1:28 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

I can see how people can get obsessed with this sort of thing. After all, we're all schooled on the story about the heroic reporter (whether Carl Woodward or Tintin) who breaks the story that no-one had even dared think about before. There's a certain strain of person who wants to cast themselves as a downtrodden hero in a great drama where Big Issues are At Stake. You see it in politics with the religious right's persecution complex, or (here in the UK) the firm belief in the anti-EU brigade that they are the last line of defence for democracy and liberty.

These obsessions can be high-risk for publications, though. The British magazine Private Eye went on and on for years about how Robert Maxwell was a fat slimy crook, and they turned out to be dead right so their credibility went sky high for a while. Then they started going on and on about how MMR caused autism and it was an evil Government cover-up, and they were dead wrong and looked like asses.
posted by athenian at 1:29 PM on January 13, 2009

As I understand it, none of Palin's staff knew she was pregnant and when Trig was born Palin claims she first broke water in Dallas two hours before stepping on a plane to Anchorage. She then got on a six hour flight while in labor, and rather than going to a hospital in Anchorage went instead to Wasilla to have the baby. She did all this knowing the baby would be born with Down Syndrome, and meanwhile Bristol was out of school for 5 months supposedly with mono. My guess? Trig is Bristol's kid, and Palin is lying. Better to air this now rather than wait four years when Palin runs for president.
posted by ornate insect at 1:29 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

from a previous post down the page:


THE BEAST 50 MOST LOATHSOME PEOPLE IN AMERICA, 2008

1. Sarah Palin

Charges: If you want to know why the rest of the world is scared of Americans, consider the fact that after two terms of disastrous rule by a small-minded ignoramus, 46% of us apparently thought the problem was that he wasn’t quite stupid enough. Palin’s unending emissions of baffling, evasive incoherence should have disqualified her for any position that involved a desk, let alone placing her one erratic heartbeat from the presidency. The press strained mightily to feign respect for her, praising a debate performance that involved no debate, calling her a “great speaker” when her only speech was primarily a litany of insults to city-dwellers, echoing bogus sexism charges when a male Palin would have been boiled alive for the Couric interview alone, and lionizing her as she used her baby as a Pro-life stage prop before crowds who cooed when they should have been hurling polonium-tipped javelins. In the end, Palin had the beneficial effect of splitting her party between her admirers and people who can read.

Exhibit A: Waving her embryo-loving credentials, in the form of her Down syndrome baby, at "But ultimately what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help shore up our economy."

Sentence: Hand-to-hand combat with Vladimir Putin and a pack of wolves.
posted by plexi at 1:30 PM on January 13, 2009

Also, to Sullivan's point, there are multiple folks who will attest to seeing her breastfeed the babe in her office.

Hey, who's up for a breastfeeding debate?
posted by Joe Beese at 1:32 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Better to air this now rather than wait four years when Palin runs for president.

Why?

If it's true, she looks like a hero who went to bat for her daughter, while the liberal blogosphere bullied her. If it's not true, then we just have the liberal blogosphere bullying her. The story helps her either way. Not to mention the way this sort of icky fixation overshadows the numerous unethical and frankly criminal things Palin engaged in or was a part of as both mayor and governnor.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 1:34 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

While many would like Palin to "go away." She's not. She's here to stay -- shooting for that Senate seat and likely as a national candidate in 2012.
posted by ericb at 1:34 PM on January 13, 2009

Celebrities only exist because we watch them, celebrities only exist because we watch them, celebrities only exist because we watch them ... repeat this mantra, and don't follow the links to stories about so-and-so's wedding/ divorce/ new baby, and ignore all magazines posted around the check-out isles of grocery stores. You'll be happier you did.

If that fails, make a greasemonkey filter, swapping celebrity names with whatever you like. Perhaps tropical fruit. For example: Prominent blogger Andrew Sullivan develops an unhealthy obsession over the (lack of) details surrounding the birth of Sarah Palinbanana's youngest child.

You might start casting devious glances in the produce isles, but that's your own thing.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:35 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

If it's true, she looks like a hero who went to bat for her daughter

Not to me. If true, it makes her look like a pathological liar. I would prefer to have politicians scrutinized when and if they lie. If I'm naive for wanting as much, so be it.
posted by ornate insect at 1:37 PM on January 13, 2009 [10 favorites]

Y’know, it’s been a deep fundamental belief of mine that the answer to free speech you don’t like is more free speech.
Palin makes me question whether putting fingers in one’s ears and shouting “La la la I don’t want to hear you anymore la la la!” might not be a better course of action.

That or the thrown shoes.
Not in the Bush in Iraq sense, but in the yowling cat on a fence in the middle of the night when you’re trying to goddamned sleep because you have to go to work in the morning sense.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:39 PM on January 13, 2009

Sarah Palin may be that hot arctic summer that finally breaks up the conservative icepack, each little ideological berg floating off to quietly melt into the waters of progress.
posted by Salvor Hardin at 1:39 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

"Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy" is equivalent to "The Clintons killed Vince Foster".

Reasonable people understand that both are ridiculous; ugly partisans claim one as ridiculous while insisting that the other is self-evident.
posted by DWRoelands at 1:40 PM on January 13, 2009 [8 favorites]

Hey, who's up for a breastfeeding debate?

I prefer the left one, how about you?
posted by jonmc at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

This wouldn't be Randy Andy's first unhealthy obsession.
posted by orthogonality at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2009

Don't get me wrong, I abhor Palin and every political thing she stands for, but as a working mother I also kind of admire the way that she's very public about what she needs to do to balance work and family life. I wish more women in politics - Hillary included - would feel free to stand up and say "this is hard work, but I'm going to do both".

Which is exactly why we end up having conversations about her family: being a mother is part of her political identity. Obama does not campaign on being a "working father", and hell, Hillary doesn't bring up her family much either (lol i wonder why). If you don't go there, we don't go there. Part of being a professional is not telling everyone that you're a working mom at every single opportunity. If Palin wasn't incompetent she would know this, and if the campaign wanted that out there, well, that's what viral ads are for.
posted by mek at 1:41 PM on January 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

Reasonable people understand...

Reasonable people are very often wrong.
posted by ornate insect at 1:42 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

If true, it makes her look like a pathological liar.

For politicians, conscienceless lying is a feature - not a bug.
posted by Joe Beese at 1:43 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

The idea that Palin might be popular among conservative Republicans is baffling to me, considering that she (more than anyone else) lost the election for them.

Believe me when I tell you that they don't see it this way. (The story I've heard evidently has something to do with Barney Frank destroying the economy in order to create the means by which a bolshevik/black power radical could steal the election. Oh, and the liberal media refuses to mention that we've actually already won the war, and they destroyed Palin because they -- as treasonous, arugula-eating, Muslim-coddling liberals -- are threatened by her intelligence, integrity, hard work, and charm.)
posted by scody at 1:44 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

The Whelk: "this is how your post makes me feel "

This post should have been about that show.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 1:45 PM on January 13, 2009

If it's true, she looks like a hero who went to bat for her daughter, while the liberal blogosphere bullied her.

Dude, if it's true, it makes her ass look crazy. Who fakes a pregnancy? That's like a plot for a bad sitcom or movie.
posted by chunking express at 1:45 PM on January 13, 2009 [6 favorites]

all of them said it was one of the strangest and unlikeliest series of events they had ever heard of and found Palin's decision to forgo medical help for more than a day after her water broke and risk the life of her unborn child on a long airplane trip to be reckless beyond measure.

I thought this was called, "a Republican abortion."
posted by availablelight at 1:47 PM on January 13, 2009 [13 favorites]

Reasonable people are very often wrong.
I'd rather be wrong and proud of the way I conducted myself than be right and a petulant child.
posted by DWRoelands at 1:47 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

For politicians, conscienceless lying is a feature - not a bug.

Politicians need to know how to say things that are as close as possible to what the audience wants to hear without being obviously and demonstrably untrue. That's not quite the same thing.

I know and have known a lot of politicians, and they all get highly stressy about making sure that what they say is not disprovable.
posted by athenian at 1:47 PM on January 13, 2009

This is still here?

Also, to Sullivan's point, there are multiple folks who will attest to seeing her breastfeed the babe in her office on FaceBook. FTFY.
posted by fixedgear at 1:47 PM on January 13, 2009

Believe me when I tell you that they don't see it this way.

scody, that may depend on who you're talking to. I've actually heard, unsolicited, from peoples mouths "McCain's gonna stroke out and that dumb [expletive deleted] is gonna be president! I'm moving to Mexico!" from people who could definitely be described as urban rednecks. The stuff you're talking about only flies with a pretty small minority of the desperately faithful. Palin couldn't get elected dog-catcher in an all cat town.
posted by jonmc at 1:49 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

Can it be a rule that no one can post about Sarah Palin unless she actually does something newsworthy?

(Did you hear? Some guy thought Brad Pitt's beard looked stupid!)
posted by giraffe at 1:52 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Palin: The gift that keeps on giving....
posted by Rashomon at 1:54 PM on January 13, 2009

Oh yeah, Sarah Palin. Was the election really only a few months ago? It seems almost mythological. I get practically nostalgic thinking of how much insanity and ridiculousness and idiocy was compressed into each day leading up to the election.
posted by naju at 1:54 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

"Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy" is equivalent to "The Clintons killed Vince Foster".

Probably, but I never understood why she didn't just release some of the relevant medical records from the childbirth and put it to rest. Instead, she dealt with the rumor that Bristol was Trig's mother by outing her daughter's pregnancy on the national stage. That was, to me, one of the weirder bits of drama in a pretty weird election season.

Let's say that you are in Palin's shoes, and want to squelch the rumors. You have two options:

(1) "Of course Trig is my baby--look, here's the official birth certificate. Can we move on?"
(2) "Of course Trig is my baby--he can't be Bristol's because she is pregnant right now!"

I can't imagine what the incentive is for option 2. It doesn't really bury the issue, and now you've given the National Enquirer more fodder for the next issue.

Yeah, Sully got obsessed, but he's right that the whole thing is odd. From "my water broke, and then a gave a speech and flew from Dallas to Seattle to Anchorage and drove to Wasilla before giving birth in my mid-40's to an at-risk baby" to the Bristol circus, it never seemed right. No, it's not terribly important, but there is something weird there, and I don't know why she didn't end the whole thing with one simple piece of paper. The biggest story here is Palin's ineffectual and defensive response to the situation.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 1:55 PM on January 13, 2009 [19 favorites]

Only about 5500 more comments to go...
posted by cimbrog at 1:56 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

The website at www.sarah-palin.com contains elements from the site 7speed.info, which appears to host malware

Says Chrome about sarah-palin.com. Great. Really great.
posted by kingbenny at 1:57 PM on January 13, 2009

I want to build a giant statue of her like The Motherland Calls, only she'll be bundled in a heavy parka, holding aloft a hunting rifle in her right hand and some venison jerky in the left.

Perhaps this pose would do.
posted by JaredSeth at 1:58 PM on January 13, 2009

can we do great harm to the author of the next post that uses the P name?
posted by HuronBob at 2:01 PM on January 13, 2009

I love all the people hating on the post who still feel compelled to post here. We have MetaTalk AND flags now. But please, do stop by and let us know we must ignore posts like this by contributing to them. That makes all sorts of sense.

I love Babygate.
posted by chunking express at 2:02 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

> Hillary doesn't bring up her family much either (lol i wonder why).

I had though it was because her only child had grown up and lives independently now.
posted by ardgedee at 2:05 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I actually had an elk slim-jim-type meat snack once. It was tasty actually.
posted by jonmc at 2:07 PM on January 13, 2009

I have a feeling her inept way of dealing with such rumors and her seeming inability to put them to rest (as undignified as submitting a semi-public maternity test may seem) will end up the real liability in elections to come. a republican operative would have to ask himself whether to bet on a horse with significant unknowns. she keeps herself in the same light edwards kept himself when people were wondering if those national enquirer rumors were true. people in both parties know how painful it is to have an eagleton, craig or de lay happen to their campaign or party and I doubt they would invest the required energy when the candidate in question has demonstrated that given enough rope she will gladly and in highly comedic fashion proceed to hang herself.

with that in mind I disagree with those who suggest she should not be given access to the public forum. roll tape, push that mic right in her face, let her talk, talk, talk! she will take care of the rest.
posted by krautland at 2:08 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

can we do great harm to the author of the next post that uses the P name?

What's the name of that restaurant with the mozzarella sticks and all the goofy shit on the walls?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:14 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

I like mozzarella sticks, dude.
posted by jonmc at 2:16 PM on January 13, 2009

John McCain and Sarah Palin were walking alongside a pond through a town park. It was a cool, windy day, and they were taking a break from all the campaigning. Suddenly, a gust of wind picked McCain's hat right off of his head and sent it into the middle of the lake. "Aww shucks," grumbled McCain, "that was my favorite hat." Sarah patted him on the back and said, "Don't worry John! I'll get it!" And without another word, she stepped on to the surface of the lake, calmly strolled along the surface of the water, picked up the hat, and walked back to the shore to return it.

The next day, all the blogs ran the story on their front pages. The headline? "PALIN CAN'T SWIM"

(thanks Dad)
posted by Zaximus at 2:18 PM on January 13, 2009

I thought this was called, "a Republican abortion."

And I think that this is where the real interest in the story lay. No one should really care if the child is Palin's or Trig's or whatever. The real question is; "Did this woman knowingly act in a way that might have intentionally put her soon to be born child in harm's way, and if so, was it in an effort to create a significant enough complication to terminate the life of the Downs syndrome suffering infant, in a way that wouldn't run counter to her anti-abortion views?"

The thing is, I doubt there will ever be an answer that any one will be happy with because it's going to be virtually impossible to prove one way or another, and even if irrefutable evidence did come out, it's such a reprehensible, loathsome concept that I suspect that many people would chose to believe that the proof was faked.

Postroad : Thank god conservative septic tank Pajamas Media sent Joe the Plumber to report on the Israeli/Hamas war.

This really is the best idea. Can't we just get her some gig which sends her to the middle of a war-zone?
posted by quin at 2:20 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Hillary doesn't bring up her family much either (lol i wonder why).

Is Chelsea Clinton a "lol" worthy child? Really?
posted by maxwelton at 2:24 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

It's an elven changling. We all know it. It's time someone said it. Trig is a freaking elf.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:25 PM on January 13, 2009 [7 favorites]

Which is exactly why we end up having conversations about her family: being a mother is part of her political identity. Obama does not campaign on being a "working father", and hell, Hillary doesn't bring up her family much either (lol i wonder why). If you don't go there, we don't go there. Part of being a professional is not telling everyone that you're a working mom at every single opportunity. If Palin wasn't incompetent she would know this, and if the campaign wanted that out there, well, that's what viral ads are for.

I'd change that to "being a mother is part of her political identity". For just about any politician with children their children and their identity as parents are going to end up being part of the picture they're trying to paint. (See also: Joe Biden). The difference with married men is, of course, that there is a cultural assumption that they have a wife who is home rearing the children, so they don't need to identify as a "parent" except in the broader context of "I want a better life for my children". (See again: Joe Biden, this time as an exception to that rule)

Part of being a professional is not telling everyone that you're a working mom at every single opportunity.

True, but I'd argue that prior to her setting foot on the national stage she didn't do that much. She just did what she did, but she did it in public. I'm not actually sure that she's an incompetent politician -- in the sense of being a person who works to get elected (although I'm pretty sure she's not a competent administrator or really a well-educated and/or thoughtful person) -- but rather that she scared the bejesus out of the McCain team so they handled her very badly.

I honestly just find it kind of ooky that all this attention is being paid to her private medical history. I see a fundamental difference between her role (or role-model) as a person who has to balance working and being the mother of a newborn and the bright light of the media being turned on her children. (See also: Tony Blair's paternity leave for another take on this.)
posted by anastasiav at 2:25 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

was it in an effort to create a significant enough complication to terminate the life of the Downs syndrome suffering infant, in a way that wouldn't run counter to her anti-abortion views?

Is that the MacGuffin? I thought it was proving her daughter is even more promiscuous than we already thought.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:25 PM on January 13, 2009

“What's the name of that restaurant with the mozzarella sticks and all the goofy shit on the walls?”

I’m going to pistol-whip the next guy who says “shenanigans.”

I like some deer jerky.
Tried a Slim-Jim a bit ago someone offered me. God, I couldn’t get the taste out of my mouth fast enough. The saliva that had touched it irritated my throat almost at once. Had to scrub my tongue. How do people eat those things?
posted by Smedleyman at 2:26 PM on January 13, 2009

Sarah Palin's pregnancy decision map.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:35 PM on January 13, 2009 [10 favorites]

I usually enjoy Sullivan's blog (since he became anti-bush)

The problem is that he was pro-Bush for way too long. For 5 years or so, he held an opinion that no one IQ larger then their shoe size could find tenable. He may have discovered his mistake but that doesn't make him less of an idiot.

Now he wants to dig into the dirty laundry of someone who should be shuffled off the world stage ASAP. This doesn't really make him less of an idiot either.
posted by doctor_negative at 2:38 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

John McCain and Sarah Palin were walking alongside a pond through a town park.

I heard a joke like that too, except instead of walking along with John McCain, she was hunting with Joe the Plumber, and instead of the blogs, it was the liberal media, and instead of walking on water, she made herself look like an idiot on national television.
posted by EarBucket at 2:42 PM on January 13, 2009 [4 favorites]

Don't we all know by now that Sarah Palin is a liar? The reason the McCain campaign bought her all those skirt suits was because if she wore pants, they'd be up in flames the moment she started talking.
posted by grounded at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

dn: Now he wants to dig into the dirty laundry of someone who should be shuffled off the world stage ASAP. This doesn't really make him less of an idiot either.

Not to mention, it's seemingly inconsistent with his tirade that if he wants to solicit bareback bear sex with other gay men, it's his business and such invasive poking around in the sexual health of other people is the sign of mean-spirited, petty, politically-motivated spite.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:44 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

You're talking about Shenanigan's, right?
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:45 PM on January 13, 2009

I once made out with a girl at a bar called Shenanigan's. After that she told me that she was a born-again and couldn't let things go any further. She had got me to the bar in the first place by saying she needed an expert on hard rock bands like AC/DC.

I don't get it either.
posted by jonmc at 2:47 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's a bright, clear, cold day here on the periphery of Chicago. I love this kind of weather, and I thought for a moment, wouldn't it be nice to live in Alaska? Then I remembered why not.
posted by desjardins at 2:48 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I agree with others who have indirectly suggested a topic change and suggest that, for the betterment of the thread, we officially change its topic from The Palin Thread 5000 to Appetizers We Like. I'll continue: spicy hot wings with honey, mozarella sticks, potato skins with the works.
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 2:56 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Like desjardins, I sure am glad we don't have to deal with a corrupt and insane governor here in Chicago like those poor Alaskans.
posted by enn at 2:57 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

I agree with others who have indirectly suggested a topic change and suggest that, for the betterment of the thread, we officially change its topic from The Palin Thread 5000 to Appetizers We Like.

There's a Vietnamse place here that serves salt-baked shrimp - which you can dip in sambal oelek sauce. That's good eatin'.
posted by Joe Beese at 3:01 PM on January 13, 2009

Crazy. Doomed to failure.

Let's hope she tries again!
posted by markkraft at 3:02 PM on January 13, 2009

if it's true, it makes her ass look crazy. Who fakes a pregnancy? That's like a plot for a bad sitcom or movie.

Or the sort of thing people have been doing in small towns across America for centuries.

This story doesn't make her look like a "pathological liar" or mentally ill. Here's what's going to happen:

1. Sullivan et al continue digging, and reveal indisputable proof that Palin pretended Bristol's kid was her own. A brief collective gasp, then a defiant, tear-brimming Palin appears on national television, where she uses words like "daughter's best interests" and "media goons" and "family". America awwww's, and forgets about the sweetheart pipeline deals, the nepotism, and the abuse of power.

OR

2. Sullivan et al continue digging, only to come to the conclusion/are proven to be wrong. A brief collective gasp, then a defiant, tear-brimming Palin appears on national television, where she uses words like "daughter's best interests" and "media goons" and "family". America awwww's, and forgets about the sweetheart pipeline deals, the nepotism, and the abuse of power.

This story helps Palin either way. Remember that 46% of the country were totally OK with her being in the White House. Do you think these same people - and a great deal more - are going to perceive this hounding as "Palin outed as a liar" or "Poor Sarah was just trying to protect her daughter"? Sullivan is doing Palin a favor. My conspiracy theory is he actually wants her in the White House.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 3:18 PM on January 13, 2009

Fools! It's Putin's love child!
posted by chugg at 3:22 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Mayan Palingenesis updates
posted by hortense at 3:36 PM on January 13, 2009

The story, for those who were not around for it or have a short memory, is that Sullivan made his reputation as a pundit by being the reasonable conservative gay man. If only gay men would stop tomcatting around with kinky unsafe sex solicited in bars or in classified ads, mainstream America would start taking them seriously and consider granting civil unions and legal marriage. If gay men wanted equality, they needed to bring gay sex out of the bathhouses, backrooms, and adult personals and into the wedding commitment chapels.

But, as is often the case. Sullivan had his own ad running through the same networks that he repeatedly claimed were tarnishing the good name of the mainstream gay community. And when he was outed for soliciting bareback sex at a time when AIDS activists were struggling to convince a second generation of gay men that wrapping the willy should be essential, Sullivan flamed back saying that it was wrong for gay journalists to make his private sexual health a matter of public record, even if he was a blatant hypocrite. The gay journalists who exposed Sullivan's quest for bareback love were invading his private sex life and health history just to create a scandal to drive readership, and that invasion of privacy was a profoundly bad thing, Sullivan argued.

So now we have him sniffing into the private sex life and health history of Sarah Palin to create a scandal to drive readership to his pages. Which highlights why I just have such trouble reading him or taking him seriously, especially on this. To me, he's opportunistic and mercenary, playing the conservative foil of the gay media to launch his career, switching sides when he saw an opportunity, and digging for scandal on turf he previously declared morally verboten.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 3:43 PM on January 13, 2009 [12 favorites]

So now we have him sniffing into the private sex life and health history of Sarah Palin to create a scandal to drive readership to his pages.

Only Sully and his Catholic God know for sure. But I don't know if I agree with you. Given some of the high-flown rhetoric he mustered during the elections, I think he may genuinely feel himself a crusader for truth in this. If not, he's a better bullshitter than I give him credit for.
posted by Joe Beese at 3:54 PM on January 13, 2009

THIS IS GREAT NEWS.... FOR JOHN MCCAIN!!!
posted by ob at 4:04 PM on January 13, 2009

Fools! It's Sullivan's love child!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:22 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Like desjardins, I sure am glad we don't have to deal with a corrupt and insane governor here in Chicago like those poor Alaskans.

Point taken. I wasn't living here when he was elected, though. Did you all know he was a crook then? Or is it just a part of the Illinois Governor's standard job description?
posted by desjardins at 4:26 PM on January 13, 2009

Oh, and I'll take crab rangoon or mozzarella sticks.
posted by desjardins at 4:27 PM on January 13, 2009

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing: Or the sort of thing people have been doing in small towns across America for centuries.

Maybe forty years ago they did, but it hasn't been common since the days when you followed it up by sending your daughter to join a convent. Right now about 20% of people would support it (people who already support her) and most of the rest would think it was sickening.

Not to mention that when she covered her tracks she may have engaged in some forgery. If she's really the parent, it can be proven beyond any sane doubt via DNA testing, and if the birth certificate says otherwise, it might be enough to win a court case.
posted by Mitrovarr at 4:48 PM on January 13, 2009

I don't even read Andrew Sullivan, but I cannot deny that the entire Trig pregnancy experience smells extremely fishy.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:50 PM on January 13, 2009

desjardin: good call, crab rangoon done well is the Appetizer of The Gods.
posted by jonmc at 5:21 PM on January 13, 2009

Dude, if it's true, it makes her ass look crazy. Who fakes a pregnancy? That's like a plot for a bad sitcom or movie.

Or a V.C. Andrews novel.

I cannot deny that the entire Trig pregnancy experience smells extremely fishy.

Yes, it's all very odd. And no explanation I've heard yet fits all the facts. This is one of those public mysteries I hope to see cleared up. Another is, "Has J.D. Salinger written anything worth reading in the decades since he stopped publishing?"
posted by orange swan at 5:22 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Actually, I think completely the opposite, MStPT.

If it turns out that Sullivan is right, and she faked the pregnancy, she will be outed as a fucking liar. I don't think this plays well to small town America, I think it plays insane. It would have been a crassly political move, not designed to protect her daughter but instead to protect the "small town values" she theoretically represents.

If Sullivan is wrong, than it brings up the problems others have already mentioned. Why was it OK for her to take such ridiculous risks with a pregnancy, solely to have it born Alaskan?

Really, I think it would serve us better to look at the other crassly political move she made during the campaign, and ask why Bristol and that dude haven't been married yet. Trot your family out and constantly tout the importance of traditional families, you get scrutinized.
posted by graventy at 5:31 PM on January 13, 2009

I don't even read Andrew Sullivan, but I cannot deny that the entire Trig pregnancy experience smells extremely fishy.

Only to people who don' t know enough human physiology. Do you have any idea how much more likely it is that 44 year old Sarah Palin had a baby with Down's syndrome than did 17 year old Bristol?

It's an unfortunate reality that, biologically speaking, women are best suited to have children in their late teens and very early 20s. Don't look at me, I didn't do the design work on it.
posted by Justinian at 5:33 PM on January 13, 2009 [6 favorites]

Say what you will, but I will state entirely without irony that Palin knows how to buy a turkey.
posted by stet at 5:50 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

When this rumor first broke, I so desperately wanted it to be true because, well, that would have been an awesome plot twist.

Wait, that's still true. But I don't think it's likely that it is her daughter's child. However, I still find the Palin's delivery story too odd to be completely true as well. I don't know what third story would better fit all of what we know. Maybe it's as boring and obvious as, "man, that Sarah Palin is so stubborn that she would do all of those things just so her child could be born in Wasilla." But it's almost as hard to swallow as the baby-switcheroo.
posted by Bookhouse at 6:04 PM on January 13, 2009

You know what I like about SP as a mom? (or grandmother)
Well first, the way she takes her children out of schools or sends them to live with relatives for months, but then yanks them back when she wants to have little dress up friends she can boss around to go on trips with her. That's great.

And the thing where she claimed to fire a chef, and told lies about how her children were upset about eating her cooking and had them laugh along on camera - even though the "chef" simply had a title change and continued to cook for family at a slightly higher pay grade.

Also, the speed with which she got Trig the professional help he needs. Go, mom go!

That said, I think the kid is hers. The whole birth story can be explained by her being a freaking control feak who cannot trust anyone who is not 100% loyal. She had to have her own doctor, no matter what. (Also, I'm guessing she's wrong/lying/was originally mistaken about when her water broke. That or she travels with depends.)

Oh, and chips and queso with a half-shaker of salt and the juice of five limes.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:13 PM on January 13, 2009

man, that Sarah Palin is so stubborn that she would do all of those things just so her child could be born in Wasilla

That is a theory that I think possible. The woman is quite possibly so narcissistic and pigheaded that she would risk her own and her child's life so she could be delivered near home. But that still doesn't explain the fact that no one at the airport nor any of the flight attendants on the plane realized she was not only very pregnant but in labour.
posted by orange swan at 6:15 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

The answer to this mystery is obvious. At some point, one of Todd Palin's mistresses turned up at the dead of night and left a bundle on the doorstep, along with a note.

"I'm not rearing your idiot, bastard child. Let that bitch who ruined my life take care of it!"

BTW, is Trig supposed to be abbreviated form of Trigger? Are they going to call the next one Laze, as an abbreviated form of Lazer sight?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:17 PM on January 13, 2009

Aren't all Crab Rangoons basically cream cheese wrapped in won tons and deep fried, with some degree of proximity to actual "crab" being entirely optional, much like the "lobster" in lobster sauce or even the "pork" in pork 'n' beans?
posted by yhbc at 6:18 PM on January 13, 2009

you say that like it's a bad thing, commish, or like it means diddley-squat.
posted by jonmc at 6:19 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Okay, I just wanted to be sure we were all talking about the same thing.
posted by yhbc at 6:20 PM on January 13, 2009

cool.

*passes duck sauce, which contains no duck and is rarely used on any*
posted by jonmc at 6:21 PM on January 13, 2009

If she's really the parent, it can be proven beyond any sane doubt via DNA testing,

Okay, I am in NO WAY saying that I believe the following happened. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT. I am just curious about a technical point.

But let's say, for purposes of argument, that Trig is actually the child of Todd Palin and Bristol Palin. I know, eww.

Would the common or garden variety DNA tests be able to distinguish such a child from a child of Todd and Sarah?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:32 PM on January 13, 2009

I love all the people hating on the post who still feel compelled to post here. We have MetaTalk AND flags now. But please, do stop by and let us know we must ignore posts like this by contributing to them. That makes all sorts of sense.

The community at large does not see flags and typically has no idea that MetaTalk even exists. Public excoriation of people who post about Palin [spit] is the best way to ensure that we have exceedingly few posts about her.

There must be several tens of thousands of politicians in this world. Surely there must be at least one who is more interesting and more important than Palin [spit].
posted by five fresh fish at 6:39 PM on January 13, 2009

ROU: Would the common or garden variety DNA tests be able to distinguish such a child from a child of Todd and Sarah?

Depending on the test, yes, assuming you had DNA samples from everyone involved. A parent-child relationship would share 50% of markers while a grandparent-child would only share 25%. (Assuming nothing funky is going on in the family tree.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 6:41 PM on January 13, 2009

There are two kinds of broken conspiracy theories. Usually the issue is simple. There are too many people involved for it to have remained a secret. Someone would have, sooner or later, squealed.

This is different. I mean, consider one of the classic JFK assassination conspiracy plots - Kennedy is killed in revenge for the Bay of Pigs fiasco, then they finger Oswald but, because Oswald has some sort of iron clad alibi, they have Jack Ruby (over whom they're holding something) bat clean up for them. It borders on believable, right?

OK, now imagine that instead of the mafia or the CIA, the initial assassins are Lucy Ricardo and Ethyl Mertz. Lucy is upset because little Ricky will never get to see the family homestead back in Cuba. Fred Mertz gets involved when they need to finger Osward because their plan, of course, goes wrong. Next, the denouement, Ricky find out about the mess, says, "Aie, Aie, Aie!" but knows someone at the club who owes him a big favor.

The conspirators have to be brilliant sociopaths. I mean like beat Ernst Stavro Blofeld at chess and then kick his Persian cat brilliant sociopaths. They also have to be dumber than a bag of hammers.

I'm kind of thinking Blofeld could have bluffed his way through a Katy Couric interview without sounding like someone laced his diet coke with LSD.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:44 PM on January 13, 2009 [5 favorites]

Sullivan is a douchebag, not because of this Palin idiocy, but for his two-faced shit-weasel behaviour toward the gay community. I am disappointed the MeFi community draws upon his blog for FPPs. He should be shunned.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:55 PM on January 13, 2009

As for the reason she flew back to Alaska after her water broke, I assume it is because she and her secessionist husband wanted their child born in their own country, not in the United States of America.
posted by Flunkie at 6:55 PM on January 13, 2009 [7 favorites]

"Point taken. I wasn't living here when he was elected, though. Did you all know he was a crook then? Or is it just a part of the Illinois Governor's standard job description?"

You don't think we actually elected him, right? Anyway, there was craziness o'plenty going on. He seemed the most reasonable guy in the field. Still does really, he's merely a crooked narcissist.

"The conspirators have to be brilliant sociopaths. I mean like beat Ernst Stavro Blofeld at chess and then kick his Persian cat brilliant sociopaths. They also have to be dumber than a bag of hammers."

1984, man. Pretty much O'Brien and doublethink right there.

And I gotta go Lemon Grilled Bacon Wrapped Scallops.
Or double tomato anchovy bruschetta. Nice Goose Island stout on the side. Mmm.
Or spanakopita if I'm in Greek town. I like the saganaki but everyone thinks you order it just 'cause the set it on fire.
posted by Smedleyman at 7:00 PM on January 13, 2009

(I mean Blago might steal your wallet, but he's not going to try to end the world over some visions he thinks he had or set your house on fire because God told him to. He's just a greedy bastard.)
posted by Smedleyman at 7:02 PM on January 13, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm amazed nobody's mentioned tempura yet.
posted by box at 7:04 PM on January 13, 2009

Miso soup. Does miso soup count? Please somebody tell me that it does. On reflection, thought, those chips 'n' queso are sounding awfully good. Salty...

Yeah. Chips 'n' queso. Right before the calamari.
posted by lostburner at 7:16 PM on January 13, 2009

One thing that I've learned from the Bush presidency that might be applicable in the Palin-pregnancy situation: people aren't always good at distinguishing between evil and stupid.
posted by box at 7:17 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

The simpler answer is usually the truth. She's short enough on sense that she boarded a commercial airline in labor. I think there's nothing left to support it not being hers. From the start I really felt like, of either scenario, the more damaging one is what appears to be the truth. It does still baffle me that more wasn't said about her disregard for her child and the people around her.
posted by docpops at 7:24 PM on January 13, 2009

this is how your post makes me feel


What the fuck Japan? I thought we already talked about this sort of thing.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 7:24 PM on January 13, 2009

Sullivan is a douchebag, not because of this Palin idiocy, but for his two-faced shit-weasel behaviour toward the gay community. I am disappointed the MeFi community draws upon his blog for FPPs. He should be shunned.

WTF are you talking about? It wasn't "the metafilter community" who posted links to his blog, it was me. One dude. Just a random dude. On the internet. The admins kept the post up. People commented in the thread. Some favorited it, most probably flagged it. Holla at ya. Take one hot step back, my brother. All is not lost. The "metafilter community" still stands strong.
posted by billysumday at 7:24 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

A parent-child relationship would share 50% of markers while a grandparent-child would only share 25%. (Assuming nothing funky is going on in the family tree.)

To paraphrase Gilbert Gottfried, when a man is fucking his own daughter, something funky is going on in that family tree.

To be clearer:

Say that Mr. A and Mrs. B have a daughter, C.

Say that there is a child whose parentage is in dispute, even if it shouldn't be.

Could a standard DNA test distinguish another child of A and B from an incestuously-formed child of A and C?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:30 PM on January 13, 2009

American appetizers are often deep fried cheese substances with caloric values as high as other culture's main dishes. Though I'm a fat man in mind and body and love the occasional mozzarella stick I'm always astounded at the lack of reasonably healthy appetizer choices at restaurants. One of my favorites it edamame. I also like a little warm goat-cheese salad with suger crusted walnuts and cranberries. But most of the time I settle for a good old cigarette.

On the Palin topic, two things:

1) We need a break, yes. But liberals should count their blessings and prepare for her return in two or four years. She's a rock-star in a party with few if any options. If a known political commodity gets the nomination in 2012, it will be either her or Mitt Romney and either one will be hilarious and practically guarantee a victory for President Obama. Palin for obvious reasons and Romney because - as both McCain and Giuliani showed us in 2008 - a republican cannot win a GOP presidential primary without putting on Pat Robertson's hat. Mitt Romney circa 2000 - a wholesome family man slash bottom line fiscal conservative social moderate technocrat - is a formidable opponent, but that type of candidate can't make it past February in a GOP primary.
2) The internet is MADE for inappropriate rumor mongering. Palin either pulled off the most soap opera-ish switcheroo in political history or she stupidly endangered the life of her unborn child in one of a hundred horrible decisions she's made that could have or did hurt herself, her family and the general public. If the former, AWESOME. If the later, then scream it from the hills by god! This train-wreck of a human being must not be trusted! Political careers have been ruined over less. Dean was creamed for whooping it up a bit one night. John Edwards was taken down over the price of a haircut.

jonmc: "dog-catcher in an all-cat town" is one of the all time greatest campaign phrases I have ever heard. Let me buy you mozzarella sticks some time.

Pater Aletheias: Classic.
posted by willie11 at 8:34 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

NO! MORE! PALIN!!!!!!!

Only if there's proof of her lying about this baby, which may very well happen. There's only circumstantial evidence, but it's really compelling circumstantial evidence. The coincidences are just too much to believe--The daughter out of school for four months? Palin doing a speech and taking two planes 3,000 miles after her water breaks, her a 44-year old carrying a baby that was known to have special needs? No birth certificate given to the press and the physician that delivered the baby not talking?

The sad thing is that by piecing these things together and pointing out the madness of it all makes you a "conspiracy nut", as if that label closes the book on the subject. I don't consider myself a conspiracy nut, but I can smell bullshit at least as well as the average person, and the Palins' story is about chin-deep.
posted by zardoz at 8:37 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

ROU_Xenophobe: Could a standard DNA test distinguish another child of A and B from an incestuously-formed child of A and C?

Yup. Wouldn't even be difficult.

A child of A and C would have two contributions that can be traced to A for some alleles and no contribution from B on those same alleles. It would also have an anomalously high number of homozygosities (from when it got one allele from A and the same allele, secondhand, from C.) It would actually be pretty obvious.
posted by Mitrovarr at 8:52 PM on January 13, 2009 [2 favorites]

To me, this is analogous to the Obama-is-not-really-an-American idiocy - seems clear that neither politician wants to dignify the whole thing with a response. That said, I sure would love to see someone ask Governor Palin point blank why she boarded a plane after her water broke.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:55 PM on January 13, 2009

Yeah, except Obama released his birth certificate, didn't he?
posted by graventy at 9:01 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

If it turns out that Sullivan is right, and she faked the pregnancy, she will be outed as a fucking liar. I don't think this plays well to small town America, I think it plays insane.

Is this the same small town America who was pretty cool with Bush lying about WMDs, because at least we got rid of Saddam, long, long after it was proven Bush was lying?

I honestly cannot see how this is going to accomplish anything but make Palin look like media victim who was just thinking about her daughter's honor. I would love to see Sullivan and others go after her pipeline deals with the same tenacity.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:01 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

Thanks, mitrovarr.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:50 PM on January 13, 2009

I travel to northern Canada for work, and Sarah Palin (her big hair, crude beauty, harsh twangy accent, angular designer glasses, her hatred and contempt for anything from down south in the Big City, where we have everything handed to us) is a depressingly familiar personality type.

As is the condescension, superficiality, and huge generalizations of people from southern urban centres.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:49 PM on January 13, 2009

Also, this post causes cancer.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:49 PM on January 13, 2009

In case anyone is curious, according to the NIH the incidence of Down Syndrome in a mother under age 30 is "less than 1 in 1000". It doesn't say how much less, nor does it break down the risk for different under 30 ages. One assumes an 18 year old is even less likely to have a baby with Down Syndrome than a 28 year old. In any case the likelihood that Bristol Palin would have a baby with DS at age 17-18 appears considerably less than 1/1000. Maybe that means 1/2000. Maybe it means 1/10,000.

The likelihood of 44 year old Sarah Palin having a baby with Down Syndrome? 1/35.

Yeah.

It surprises me that women don't freeze some eggs when they are 20 in case they decide to have kids later in life.
posted by Justinian at 11:51 PM on January 13, 2009 [1 favorite]

I've never bought into the pregnancy story either, because I love a good conspiracy story and this one has all the makings of it, including the implausible denials, the ridiculous/impossible timeline of the 'actual' events and the perfect storm of lets-see-who-benefits. I only stopped talking about it in the Original Palin Thread (I Wuz There!) because there was so much more to talk about every hour or two.

But revisiting it now, I'd still put money pretty confidently on a cover-up.

That said, I don't see any way to really prove it. She has her personal Ob/Gyn co-opted, after all, so all the "official documents" in the world won't help anymore. A paternity test might, but good luck engineering that in a way that doesn't make you look like a crazy partisan hack.

So it's a hopeless effort to untangle this, and Marisa's right: Making a Big Deal about it will never result in anything good, either way.

Too bad. I'd like to know.
posted by rokusan at 1:24 AM on January 14, 2009

Oh, and I forgot:

Calamari; the deep fried kind that's mostly rings but has an occasional piece of wtf-is-that? thrown in to make sure you're paying attention.
posted by rokusan at 1:28 AM on January 14, 2009

I meant to address the Down's odds in my ramble, but forgot: not-her-child is the better option, but "Republican abortion" seems much more likely. Either way, a cover-up.
posted by rokusan at 1:29 AM on January 14, 2009

1) Mrs. Palin or Mr. Palin should have been using protection/ IUD or the *snip snip* That's pretty much the norm among my peer-group of 40+ year olds who don't want more kids but do want marital intimacy.

2) Someone should just pony up the birth certificate and be done with it - what? but it's such good press for Palin? It serves the purpose of keeping her in the mind of people without causing any actual damage like by mentioning all the sleazy shit she got up to as MStPT eloquently put it? Oh, oh right.

3)I always thought "Trig" was an abbreviation of trigonometry.

4) Bruschetta, Miso soup. I once had a single fried oyster that I was very enthused about until it actually got to the table: I fucking love fried seafood, even the HoJo stuff that is only faintly evocative of seafood and here was a single fried oyster being served up on a menu in a snooty, well received and reputed restaurant here in Berlin. I thought, awesome! Some chef (chef not "cook" geeked out on frying an oyster! Perfection! I get the thing and I would have taken HoJo's version over this any day. I tasted like fry oil. Not bad fry oil mind you but still. Doesn't the guy, this "chef" know his job? What the fuck is he doing frying this in regular fry oil? Couldn't he have used lard? Sesame oil? What up dude? Where's all the chops everyone was saying you had? All that good press? Pissed me off. It was my birthday, too. I have yet to find any restaurant in Berlin that comes up to the level of even the Broadway Diner or Prune or Oznot's Dish (backintheday).
posted by From Bklyn at 2:08 AM on January 14, 2009

Sarah Palin and Andrew Sullivan should, henceforth, only ever appear in public while smoking a pipe.
posted by From Bklyn at 2:13 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

I know it has been brought up in this thread, the idea that Palin might have been trying to preserve her daughter's "honor," and I know people meant well by saying so, as in that would be viewed by some of the public as a the "right thing to do," but this has been bugging me, so:

Honor has everything to do with how you conduct yourself with your friends, neighbors, customers, strangers and indeed everyone you meet, and has nothing to do with whether you have had sex or not. Please do not buy into the bullshit that values a bit of membrane above whatever other qualities you have.

I will hope that you're careful, as teenage motherhood isn't a picnic, we've got more than enough people in the world already, having a child young closes many more doors than it opens if you have ambitions beyond being a parent (nothing wrong with that, a bit hard to know, though, if it's right for you when you have barely started your journey into the world) and a pill once a day and/or a thin film of latex will keep your options open. All that said, there is nothing dishonorable in being a teenage mother.
posted by maxwelton at 3:50 AM on January 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

If Trig is short for Trigger, can we guess at the inspiration for the name? When will an intrepid journo discover that Bristol's real name is, as I can exclusively reveal, not Bristol but Peckham?
posted by MuffinMan at 4:24 AM on January 14, 2009

I tasted like fry oil.

I'm sure we're all very sympathetic, but how did the oyster taste?
posted by orange swan at 4:44 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

All that said, there is nothing dishonorable in being a teenage mother.

Amen, but I don't think that was in question here, really.

I think it's a safe bet that most in this thread are describing "protecting her daughter's honor" in the sense of how Mrs. Palin and her constituency of religious zealots would understand it.
posted by rokusan at 5:07 AM on January 14, 2009

If Trig is short for Trigger, can we guess at the inspiration for the name?

I tried to find out who Bristol's trigonometry teacher was, but that attempt at conspiracycraft went nowhere.
posted by rokusan at 5:08 AM on January 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Please do not buy into the bullshit that values a bit of membrane above whatever other qualities you have.

What rokusan said. As the result of pre-marital sex myself, I see nothing dishonorable about the possibility of Bristol being Trig's mother. What does bother me is that digging into this speculation moves attention and energy away from far more serious crimes committed in her tenure - crimes that also paint her as a liar and a bully - without doing her the favor of letting her quite justifiably don the cloak of victimhood and accuse the media of having an unhealthy preoccupation with her reproductive organs.

Yes, I understand she made "family values" a thing. But she can just as easily paint her alleged deception as being in keeping with those same values and the fact is a lot of people, even people who despise her politics, would understand her motivations. They might even sympathize with it. Restricting the rules of a pipeline bidding war to favor her friends? Not so much.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 6:16 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

To all of you who think Palin is gone and forgotten; remember, SARAH PALIN is an anagram of LIAR HAS NAP.

The letters don't lie. We've laid to rest a sleeping bear, but come spring...
posted by twoleftfeet at 6:31 AM on January 14, 2009

I don't think that Palin's "base" has a big objection to pre-marital teen sex either as long as they get their shotgun wedding and extended family out of it. It's not pre-marital sex they object to as much as extra-marrital sex, sex between two independent and educated young adults with no intention of either marriage or children.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:05 AM on January 14, 2009

ahem. Yes. The oyster, uh, the oyster tasted even oilier.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:37 AM on January 14, 2009

"Trig" is Norse (trygg) for "truth" or "strength," per various sources on the web.

I know it's disappointingly reasonable, but there ya go. "Track" is, however, said to be named after the sporting event, which is schadenfreud-inspiringly wacky, and I sort of wish there were a Pole Vault Palin or a Racketball Palin in the family too.

For more, see http://virtuallinguist.typepad.com/the_virtual_linguist/2008/08/sarah-palins-ch.html (among other easily googlable refs).

Also, tie between vegetable samosas with tamarind dipping sauce and stuffed Thai chicken wings.
posted by aught at 7:40 AM on January 14, 2009

Ugh, it drives me nuts all this talk about how dare she get on a plane when her water was broken. She probably wanted to deliver with people/doctors she felt comfortable with. Just because her water was broken does not mean she was in active labour (she says repeatedly she was feeling intermitant contractions and leaking fluid). Labour has different stages, some women can be in labour for days, going about their normal lives with the constantly replenishing amniotic fluid leaking maxi pad (after the water has broken accepted medical practice where I live is 24 hours of leaking is okay before medical interventions need to be taken). Each pregnancy is unique and a medical professional with a lot of experience can judge what is safe and what is not a lot better than a bunch of internet commentators.

With my fourth pregnancy I was feeling contractions for a few hours, then called the midwives and went up to the pizza place to get them dinner, hung around talking to the owner while he made the pizza and was able to just sit around the house while waiting for all the relatives to drive up. After everyone was there and my husband woke up from his nap I then decided to encourage the labour along and go for a few brisk walks around the block and delivered less than an hour later.

I am no fan of Palin's policies or past professional decisions but attacking her personal choices in a society that feels it has the right to comment on what pregnant women do "for the good of the children" just drives me up the fricking wall.
posted by saucysault at 8:11 AM on January 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

i find her brand of politics highly offensive. she has helped make ignorance an acceptable position in the US's culture. While I would like nothing more than to see her fade into history, I know that this won't happen. I do believe that she is done with national politics, and will end up hosting a show on Fox news. Welcome the the Ann Coulter of the Obama era.
posted by Heliochrome85 at 8:25 AM on January 14, 2009

Onion bhaji with mango chutney.
posted by minifigs at 8:39 AM on January 14, 2009

SARAH PALIN is an anagram of LIAR HAS NAP.

The letters don't lie. We've laid to rest a sleeping bear, but come spring...

You're misinterpreting those entrails, kemosabe.

All this means is that you can put a spit through her and use her as a paint roller.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:42 AM on January 14, 2009

I think that Sullivan and his ilk just can't accept how someone can be so oblivious to their own best interests and those of their children; as someone from a pretty dysfunctional family, I can totally buy it. Palin has made no bones about wanting to stay in Wasilla as much as possible when she became governor (some members of the legislature got buttons saying "Where's Sarah?"); that's her comfort zone, that's where she drew many members of her administration, regardless of their qualification, and that's where she'd spend as much time as possible even if she did get elected to go to Washington in whatever capacity. It informed her whiny press release and email to the ADN (repeating the "say it ain't so" line (inadequately apostrophed) from the Biden debate as if it were a killer catchphrase that couldn't be worn out).

And it will probably continue to generate enthusiasm from like-minded people who, like her, continue to strenuously ignore the reality of the problems facing the country and the world and manage to find pride in their ignorance, which is why I'm very much hoping that she runs in '12: she will split her party right down the middle, Obama will slice and dice her ass in the debates and send it back to North Bumfuck in a neatly-wrapped package, and the grownups can continue with the work of trying to fix this damn mess.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:32 AM on January 14, 2009

Oh, duh! Almost forgot. Buffalo wings with the second-hottest sauce.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:33 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

saucysault : Just because her water was broken does not mean she was in active labour ... Each pregnancy is unique and a medical professional with a lot of experience can judge what is safe and what is not a lot better than a bunch of internet commentators.

Fair enough, but was it reasonable for her to set foot on an aircraft knowing that she was potentially on the verge of going into full blown labor? If she had suddenly and unexpectedly started having contractions, wouldn't it have put the other passengers and crew at risk as they tried to get her back onto the ground safely to deliver the child?

I honestly don't know. But I seem to remember reading that most doctors strongly discourage pregnant women from flying in the last few weeks of their third trimester just to prevent this kind of incident from happening.

I'm happy to be found wrong on this, but from my understanding, there aren't many obstetricians who would advocate taking a public, cross country flight after someone's water has just broken.
posted by quin at 9:46 AM on January 14, 2009 [4 favorites]

2012 is far enough away for a few less-insane GOP governors to emerge as national figureheads

We have a less-insane Republican governor in Indiana. He has repeatedly and consistently said he has no interest in running for president, which of course is further evidence for his relative sanity.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:47 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Or a V.C. Andrews novel.

"Flowers in the Elk Blind"
posted by rusty at 9:49 AM on January 14, 2009

NO! MORE! PALIN!!!!!!!

"...lest you continue in your quotations and mention the name of the 'Scottish Play'."
"Oh-ho... never fear, I shan't do that."
"By the "Scottish Play", I assume you mean PALIN."
"Aahhhhhgh! Hot potato! Off his drawers! Puck will make amends --AAAOWW!!!"
"What was that?"
"We were exorcising evil spirits. Being but a mere butler, you will not know the great theatre tradition that one does never speak the name of the 'Scottish Play'."
"What, PALIN?"
"Aahhhhhgh!Hot potato! Off his drawers! Puck will make amends --OOOHHH!!!"
"Good lord, you mean you have to do that every time I say PALIN?
"Aahhhhhgh! Hot potato! Off his drawers! Puck will make amends --AAAOWW!!!"
"Will you please stop saying that! Always call it the 'Scottish Play'."
"So you want me to say the 'Scottish Play'?"
"Yes!!!"
"Rather than PALIN?"
"Aahhhhhgh! Hot potato! Off his drawers! Puck will make amends --RRRGGGH!!!"
posted by spoobnooble at 10:12 AM on January 14, 2009

Also: nachos with beef. I am a simple man with simple needs.
posted by spoobnooble at 10:17 AM on January 14, 2009

It surprises me that women don't freeze some eggs when they are 20 in case they decide to have kids later in life.

It's my understanding that egg removal carries serious risks. It certainly doesn't sound like any fun.
posted by desjardins at 10:24 AM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

I want Trig to marry someone called Nometry.

Anyway, the chips and salsa at La Perla on Maiden Lane.
posted by athenian at 10:28 AM on January 14, 2009

They used to make these things at the Low Brow called "cheeseburger fries" that were just, literally burger and cheese in a stick form, battered and fried. Same form factor as a mozzarella stick, but with the corpse of a cheeseburger inside. They were fantastic.
posted by cortex at 10:47 AM on January 14, 2009 [2 favorites]

Pho Hung has Toronto's best Vietnamese spring rolls.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:55 AM on January 14, 2009

Pho Hung? Oh hells no. The best pho place in the city is Pho My Duyen around Bloor and Dufferin. Their spring rolls and fresh rolls rock out with their cock out.
posted by chunking express at 11:03 AM on January 14, 2009

First off, I think it is remarkably charitable to assume that if Palin lied, she was "protecting her daughter's honor," rather than, "protecting her repuation as a Female Politician Running on a Family Values Platform."

Now about the whole flying-all-over-the-place-after-her-water-broke thing:

IF this was Sarah Palin's child, it was what, her fourth or fifth? Labor generally goes much quicker in subsequent births, and IF her water broke, she could easily have had the child within a few hours, certainly within those 13 hours that passed.

And as far as physicians not doing anything until 24 hours after water breaks, that's verifiably not true here, where labor is *induced* before that time if necessary. After 24 hours, the risk of infection seriously increases, but that doesn't mean physicians want to wait until the last minute and give you 23 3/4 hours of no labor before suggesting, "Hey maybe we should do something!"

Add that to the maternal age and Down's Syndrome correlation, and it's looking pretty fishy.

Bruschetta, or shrimp cocktail with remoulade sauce, and a goat-cheese salad.
posted by misha at 11:07 AM on January 14, 2009

I think it is remarkably charitable to assume that if Palin lied, she was "protecting her daughter's honor," rather than, "protecting her repuation as a Female Politician Running on a Family Values Platform."

This would make more sense if Trig was born in say, September, as opposed to April. I agree she's a shameless opportunist, but she's not clairvoyant.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:17 AM on January 14, 2009

Meaning, if true, this was probably more of a small-town thing than an "I'm running for vice president!" thing.

Also, sata andagiiiiiiiiii.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 11:22 AM on January 14, 2009

IF this was Sarah Palin's child, it was what, her fourth or fifth? Labor generally goes much quicker in subsequent births, and IF her water broke, she could easily have had the child within a few hours, certainly within those 13 hours that passed.

I think that depends on the history of her other births, which we don't really have. It could be that she just has very long labors, or labors that stall out. We don't really know. I seem to recall reading somewhere (although googling Palin Labor Trig now is a minefield I don't care to wade through) that there was some medical intervention (Picotin maybe?) even after she got to the hospital.

Honestly, I think if she's hiding anything its that Trig wasn't really born in Alaska and thus isn't eligible for the Permanent Fund Dividend (or whatever its called) but I'm not well educated on that topic so I could be totally wrong.

(My mom makes these things that are basically well-herbed feta cheese and egg mixture wrapped inside philo dough and baked. I'll put that up against your crab rangoons anytime.)
posted by anastasiav at 11:25 AM on January 14, 2009

It's my understanding that egg removal carries serious risks. It certainly doesn't sound like any fun.

Thanks, it does make sense that this would carry some risks, and it does make a decision to preserve eggs much more complicated. Perhaps we'll find a better way to do it in the future. I hate the fact that, generally speaking, the best time to have kids biologically and the best time to have kids from the standpoint of parent maturity and economic stability are so very divergent.
posted by Justinian at 12:01 PM on January 14, 2009

Any appetizers appetizing enough to have after one's 'water has broken?'

This has to be one of the strangest MeFi threads ever. Egg removal/freezing in one breath; shrimp cocktail in the other.
posted by ericb at 1:01 PM on January 14, 2009

Her age and the diagnoses of Down syndrome has no effect on the birth (as far as I know there are no specific birth complications associated with Down's). A friend flew the day before her due date (and gave bith on her due date) so maybe it is more common then we think (and concealing a pregnancy is pretty easy if your body shape allows it). I think this obbsession with her pregnancy reveals the incredible ignorance many people have about normal, non-medicalised women's health.

I like having fried eggs on toast after my water has broken, good old Irish comfort food.
posted by saucysault at 2:01 PM on January 14, 2009

What are the risks of removing deviled eggs?
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:08 PM on January 14, 2009

Acute handslapitis.
posted by cortex at 2:17 PM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

jonmc: The stuff you're talking about only flies with a pretty small minority of the desperately faithful.

I don't think it's really that small a minority. The "Party of Personal Responsibility" seems to be falling all over itself to become the "Party of Petulant Victimhood."
posted by scody at 3:07 PM on January 14, 2009 [1 favorite]

Y'know those veggie/dip plates that people get at parties? Yeah, I'm that person who stands next to it eating cherry tomatoes with dip for the entirety of the party and when anyone else comes up to get a snack, all they're left with is the gross raw broccoli.

Or, if I'm in a restaurant, quesadillas with guacamole & sour cream. Which, really, is just mainlining fat.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 5:03 PM on January 14, 2009

Many companies require pregnant women who travel to get a doctors note for every single flight after the sixth or seventh month. Airlines tend to have a policy about this. All these cautions around pregnancy aren't for normal birth - they are for the exceptions. As far as I know, most states require midwives to have a backup plan and I certainly know of midwives who will not take certain clients because of the mother's risk level.

A down syndrome delivery has complications because the baby has developmental issues - a baby with, for instance, heart malformations delivered in an airport does not have the same chance as a baby delivered in a hospital. If she did not know this, she worked very hard not to find out what the potential problems were. She also had amniocentesis, which creates a risk. In fact, she had it right off the bat, instead of waiting a few months to have other, less risky, tests.

She didn't have to go to Wasilla to have the child in Alaska, she landed in Anchorage, and drove off to podunk town.

So, there's just no way that she could argue for getting on the plane, and if the reason was financial, why not Alaska? And hey, why not tell the flight attendants you need to get off the plane before everyone else so you can go give birth? I beg for special treatment if I'm only worried about a tight connection. No one one the plane had any idea.

The leaking fluids may be true, but her first 400 remarks said her "water broke" and that she discussed this with her doctor. (Maybe she was just trying to back up her father, who seems to have been the first quoted.) (The doctor has argued that she said no such thing and would not even have allowed the flight out. Then she says great things about Palin.)

In any case, any number of obstetricians and doulas have been quoted in newspapers and magazines saying the story as Palin tells it makes not a damn bit of sense.

My plan is to wait 20 years, and then write a letter as Trig claiming I need the birth certificate to get a replacement passport. I know when and what county he was born in... although the doctor is awfully friendly with Palin so I don't see why it would be a big deal to get the registrar to write in the wrong name.

The risk of removing deviled eggs is that by the time I get into the dinning room where they are laid out next to the Jell-O salad, they will be gone and I will cry. I love deviled eggs. But I keep thinking there should be something else to put in the yolk hole, maybe croutons and cheese...
posted by Lesser Shrew at 6:57 PM on January 14, 2009

One more follow-up re the small minority of the party faithful: Bush is leaving office with a 75% approval rating among Republicans. If anything, I fear that it may be the reality-based Republicans who are the small minority. (Or maybe the reality-based Republicans of the past are just among independents of today.)
posted by scody at 7:20 PM on January 14, 2009

Bush is leaving office with a 75% approval rating among Republicans.

Fucking ridiculous.

Sane Americans, get the hell out of the country. When 75% of 46% of your population is dumber than a sack of shit, there is no way in hell for your country to survive in the modern world. Do yourselves a favour and bail before you're taken down by your fellow morons.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:45 PM on January 14, 2009

Y'know those veggie/dip plates that people get at parties? Yeah, I'm that person who stands next to it eating cherry tomatoes with dip for the entirety of the party...

I sure hope you didn't double-dip.
posted by ericb at 8:40 PM on January 14, 2009

Bush is leaving office with a 75% approval rating among Republicans.

Sane Americans, get the hell out of the country. When 75% of 46% of your population is dumber than a sack of shit (...)

I think you're overestimating the other 25% of that 46%. It's entirely possible, for example, that they disapprove of him because they aren't sure who he is.
posted by Flunkie at 4:04 PM on January 15, 2009 [2 favorites]

Touché!
posted by five fresh fish at 5:29 PM on January 15, 2009