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Bitchy and Scratchy
February 10, 2009 6:25 PM   Subscribe

A $10.00 scratch ticket + 2 buddies = $5,000,000.00 (minus lawyer fees). Day one in court. Day two.
posted by davebush (70 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

 
Sigh. I wish I could be sure that I would never have to think twice choosing between $2.5m and a lifelong friend, but somehow it worries me to know that I'm no more human than they are.
posted by Mr. Anthropomorphism at 6:29 PM on February 10, 2009


Like 2.5m isn't enough? Really? Look you're rich already, and you're just gonna blow it on something stupid anyway.
posted by nola at 6:34 PM on February 10, 2009


This could be solved with a simple rule: In every instance where there is a dispute over who gets the proceeds from winning tickets, the filing of any litigation-related paperwork causes the win to be void and the money is donated to a charity designated anew at the start of every month.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:35 PM on February 10, 2009 [4 favorites]


Oh, fuck, everyone knows that you bludgeon your friend and leave his body at a hog farm.

What?
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 PM on February 10, 2009 [5 favorites]


$5,000,000 can buy friends that $2.5 millionaires only dream of.
posted by starman at 6:49 PM on February 10, 2009 [9 favorites]


$2.5 million is close to twice as much money as I'm likely to make in the rest of my working life. Ignoring interest, investment, etc that means with that money I could quit work entirely and still live twice as well as I do now.

I can't say it wouldn't be nice to have more (two tickets in the Russian space tourism program, fer example would be really nice), but I'd like to think I'm sufficiently indifferent to riches that I wouldn't break up with a lifelong friend. Of course, I suppose, I'll never know; its easy to give up money you don't have, probably less so money you do have.
posted by sotonohito at 6:50 PM on February 10, 2009


Paul Miller, left in hat, is suing Daniel Carley, front centre,

What a couple of maroons.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:04 PM on February 10, 2009


maybe he'd give you the 2.5 million if you quit calling him "Ears"
posted by Sys Rq at 7:04 PM on February 10, 2009


That poor Miller is going be shafted big time. Not only won't he get the 2.5mil but he may be stuck with costs on top of that.
posted by Man_in_staysis at 7:05 PM on February 10, 2009


I would gladly give up $2.5 million in order not to get my picture in the paper wearing that hat.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:07 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


They were taken to the Winner's Circle room and questioned by lottery officials. Miller said a female employee asked who the ticket belonged to and Carley said it was his. She asked Miller the same question and Miller said it was Carley's ticket.
[...]
Miller testified he never told anybody he gave Carley $10 or that he won on the ticket, too. He didn't mention it to lottery officials, bank officials, friends at the bar or Carley's family.


So, um, where's the case?
posted by Sys Rq at 7:10 PM on February 10, 2009


Like 2.5m isn't enough?

Not if you want to live in New York for longer than a year, apparently!
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:14 PM on February 10, 2009


my understanding from the article (i may be reading it wrong) is that one guy, the one who claimed the winner, put in money for 11 tickets and the other guy put in money for 1. so a reasonable split would be 11:1, not 1:1.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 7:16 PM on February 10, 2009


needs lolontario tag.
posted by scruss at 7:18 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]


I say we let them fight for it in a pit like wolves.
posted by scarello at 7:19 PM on February 10, 2009


This is all worth it for the "standard file photo."

Left, in hat.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:19 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


needs lolontario tag.

Not until it's revealed that the winning ticket was a misprint.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:19 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


In this case, Miller should be told to divide the winnings in a way he feels is fair.

Carley then gets to choose which pile of money is his.

Then send them both to their rooms until they promise to play nice together.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:21 PM on February 10, 2009 [5 favorites]


The court has heard Carley, Miller and a third friend, Bob Delisle, scratched a pile of tickets in a car in the Avondale parking lot on Feb. 21, 2006.

Why does sound vaguely illicit, like something you wouldn't admit to in polite company?
posted by madajb at 7:27 PM on February 10, 2009


This is why I try not to make friends. Too much hassle in the long run.
posted by tzikeh at 7:27 PM on February 10, 2009


Canada, what happened man? You used to be so cool.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:29 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


Left, in hat.

Suspect is hatted, repeat, hatted.
posted by turgid dahlia at 7:31 PM on February 10, 2009 [7 favorites]


It's like an episode of Trailer Park Boys come to life!
posted by freshwater_pr0n at 7:33 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


I find it interesting that everyone in the party photo looks happy...except the guy who just became rich.
posted by davebush at 7:36 PM on February 10, 2009


Canada, what happened man? You used to be so cool.

NAFTA, man. We ended up with a bunch of these oversized novelty sombreros and it's all been downhill since then.
posted by David Fleming at 7:38 PM on February 10, 2009 [8 favorites]


And deep in the bowels of darkest hell, a squirming, foam-mouthed horde of lawyers shrieked with glee.
posted by jamstigator at 7:38 PM on February 10, 2009


What does Bob Delisle have to say about it? I suppose that will be the riveting Day Three in court.

I like your title.
posted by readery at 7:45 PM on February 10, 2009


I actually worked with Bob Delisle several years ago.
posted by davebush at 7:47 PM on February 10, 2009


Eh. CDN 5 Million is like, what, USD 1 Trillion, right?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 7:47 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


Not this week, but maybe next year. Looks like our banking system is gonna be last man standing.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:52 PM on February 10, 2009


Don't dismiss this too easily as one friend being a complete ass to another. Mr. Anthropomorphism at the very top and most everyone else have good reason to be worried. I'm really familiar with this kind of scenario: a pile of money on the table for the taking, and two or more people involved, with all of them thinking they're entitled to a piece.

You'd think you'd do the right thing. You think to yourself "Hell, if I just have enough to pay off my mortgage and my car loan, I'm good." But then twenty times more money appears in front of you and in your head there's a reasonable argument that all of it should be yours. Suddenly, two hundred grand doesn't seem like that much, and wouldn't it be nice to have a bigger house, and a new BMW and no debts plus another million in the bank collecting interest? Maybe it should be two million collecting interest. And suddenly no amount is really enough. Suddenly, the reasonable, generous person you are becomes surprisingly avaricious. That person who knew how to live on Kraft Dinner and ramen and the occasional visit to the movies or the local pub undergoes a transformation. Maybe because they've had to live carefully and frugally for all of their lives their transformation is that much more dramatic.

This doesn't happen to everyone, naturally, but you'd be surprised how many people do convert, people until now you felt were fine upstanding human beings. A person's true colours shine through when they're in a room with stacks of cash on the table, and they're told that they should take what they think is fair. And until that moment happens, I argue that you can't be absolutely certain that you'd come away the same person you are now.
posted by illiad at 7:53 PM on February 10, 2009 [14 favorites]


wut he said.

$5M x 1/12th = ~$400K.
posted by troy at 7:55 PM on February 10, 2009


$5M x 2.75%/yr = $137K/yr. Not baddish.
posted by troy at 7:57 PM on February 10, 2009


Neither of these people deserves the other as a friend.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:12 PM on February 10, 2009


Do Canadians have to give half of their lottery winnings back like they do here in the states?

Damn taxes
posted by bjork24 at 8:13 PM on February 10, 2009


And that is why you don't buy lotto tickets, it just ends up being more trouble than it's worth.
posted by benk at 8:19 PM on February 10, 2009


Do Canadians have to give half of their lottery winnings back like they do here in the states?

Not one cent. I always thought it was odd that the U.S., the land of capitalism and conservative fiscal policy, taxed the hell out of lottery winnings. Not so in Soviet Canuckistan. You keep it all. You are of course taxed on interest earned from the winnings, but that's not unexpected.
posted by illiad at 8:23 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


I feel for Carley. This must have been very devisive with their friends. I wonder if someone put Millar up to suing, he isn't really coming off as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Dude, you admitted in Court that you drove a dealer around to his customers.
posted by saucysault at 8:23 PM on February 10, 2009


Nope. Every penny you win is yours.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:28 PM on February 10, 2009


Hey, I kind of liked Sour Grapes.
posted by dhammond at 8:45 PM on February 10, 2009


That is the oldest-looking 27-year old I've ever seen. They have metric years in Canada or something?
posted by Robin Kestrel at 9:27 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]


Man you know, people really shouldn't share lottery tickets. You hear stories like this all the time, I remember a case in Iowa where a girl who was under 18 purchased a ticket with her over-18 boyfriend, and won. She tried to claim the ticket was shared, but the lottery came in and said that if it really was shared, then no money should be paid out at all, because you're not allowed to play lottery if you're under 18.

The boyfriend was a total douche, of course, he should have given her half the money, but apparently felt entitled to all of it, I didn't feel particularly bad for him.

They ought to make it either illegal to share tickets, or require that people who do want to share tickets all sign something before they get 'em.
posted by delmoi at 9:29 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


"
Left, in hat.

Suspect is hatted, repeat, hatted.
"

I'd leave him in that hat too.
posted by klangklangston at 9:37 PM on February 10, 2009


Some people who win lotteries aren't dicks.
posted by illiad at 9:38 PM on February 10, 2009 [2 favorites]


This seems like an appropriate place to link to rotten.com's guide to how to deal with winning a lottery such that you don't fuck up your life.
posted by Rhomboid at 9:47 PM on February 10, 2009 [10 favorites]


My dad instilled in me the idea that it's easier to make money than it is to make friends. I would hope that I wouldn't sacrifice that principle for $5 million. Especially when I can take $2.5 million and keep the friend.
posted by spacely_sprocket at 9:54 PM on February 10, 2009


Fair enough to a point, spacely, but what would your dad say about someone who'd show up to celebrate your finest hour in a hat like that? I'll tell you what he'd say. He'd say, "You don't need friends like those, son." And he'd be right, goddammit. And then he'd make that undalay undalay sound from Speedy Gonzales and you'd both laugh, and all would be right with the world.
posted by gompa at 10:09 PM on February 10, 2009


Ah, hockey-shirt wearing, Royal Reserve sticker sporting, twangy, pasty, pudgy, pogey-collecting stubbly be-toqued Canuck white trash smoke-and-a-coffee douchebags: my heritage.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:33 PM on February 10, 2009 [1 favorite]


It's a bearer instrument and possession is 10/10ths of the law in this case. I think it should have been thrown out of court.
posted by bz at 10:46 PM on February 10, 2009


Oh, fuck, everyone knows that you bludgeon your friend and leave his body at a hog farm.

What?


This is why klangklangston has no one to hang out with.
posted by bwg at 10:54 PM on February 10, 2009


If greed broke up their friendship then they weren't ever really friends.
posted by bwg at 11:00 PM on February 10, 2009


"This is why klangklangston has no one left to hang out with."

FTFY.
posted by Eideteker at 11:11 PM on February 10, 2009 [3 favorites]


I run a lottery syndicate at work on the occasional times that the Euromillions lottery rolls over (because $40m is never quite enough). When the odd colleague hesitates about joining up, I tell them it's up to them, but they should think about the £1.50 as an insurance policy against being the only person left in the office while we all spend our miillions.

I send out a quasi legal email with everyone listed by name, stating that they have paid and are entitled to an equal share of the winnings of any of the ticket numbers listed in the email (which are all bought through my online account). Generally, someone has paid for a colleague who is away, and verbally agreed they'll get their money back the next day. Inevitably someone gently teases me about the officious nature of it all until I point out that a 10th share of $100m brings one's legal rights sharply into focus in the unlikely event we were to win the damn thing.

But at home, my other half an I have a gentleman's agreement: she buys the lottery tickets, I pay for a few small standing orders for us both that come to the same amount. While I do trust her completely, I know that there is no way of proving that half the winnings are mine.
posted by MuffinMan at 3:39 AM on February 11, 2009


illiad: This is the part that amazes me: good lottery guy was also from St. Catharines, and his goodness happened just before this trial started. These guys just got shown a big, bright, shining example of How To Win The Right Way and still chose to press on being dicks.

Oh, and XQUZYPHYR, I'm afraid that's "Standard" as in the St. Catharines Standard - mighty bastion of Niagara-y journalism. Funnier your way though.
posted by mzanatta at 3:47 AM on February 11, 2009


It definitely seems like Miller doesn't have a case, but then again, I remember a lesson learned in school: don't bring (millions of dollars) to the classroom unless you've got enough to share.

Seriously, by inviting his friends to scratch the tickets, nay, by even scratching them off in his friends' presences, he did somewhat imply that it was "they" who were playing the lottery, rather than "he." Money may not be owed legally, but seriously, hook a friend up with something.
posted by explosion at 4:06 AM on February 11, 2009


I love the name of the guy who gave some of his lottery winnings to the waitresses: Jorma Hogbacka.

North America always aces Europeans when it comes to great names.
posted by MuffinMan at 4:16 AM on February 11, 2009


Now I'm not for a minute suggesting Carley looked better in the first photo, but does winning $5M age you, or what?
posted by puffmoike at 5:08 AM on February 11, 2009


Carley testified that he was planning on buying houses for his friends. I think that counts as 'hooking up'.

I find these types of cases are incredibly frustrating to read about. You know that one of the parties is being a total and complete dick and the other is being totally and completely shafted. But there's no way of knowing for sure which is which. Either scenario is possible but neither is provable. The whole time you're reading, you're hoping that someone left an answering machine on while all of the phone calls were being made so you could hear Carley say "I won" or "We won" -thus giving that one bit of evidence that would sate your desire for justice.
posted by jadayne at 5:15 AM on February 11, 2009


I think the casual attitude displayed by Carley, when he handed those tickets out to his friends to scratch off, just proves how little faith people really have in winning the lottery.
No one really expects to win, otherwise they'd be scratching those tickets in private.
posted by orme at 5:34 AM on February 11, 2009


Also, Carley is a DICK!
posted by orme at 5:34 AM on February 11, 2009


The lottery provides a lot of interesting moral dilemmas because the amount of money involved-- could be $0.00, could be $10,000,000-- is unpredictable and possibly life changing.

1) My husband buys his sister a lottery ticket to go in her birthday present. Later he confesses, "I hope she doesn't win anything." That's not him being a dick-- it is simply a second of him being brutally honest with himself and trying to predict how he would react if she actually won something. Hopefully, he would feel ecstatic for her, but possibly he would only feel jealous. And what if she does win? Should she "tip" him, and how much?

2) My 15 year old is staying with us for the summer and because my husband loves to buy little presents when he goes into the shop to buy something for himself, he comes back to the car with two lottery tickets. She and I scratch our tickets. What happens if she has a winning ticket? Is it hers out right (we will have to claim it for her and pay the taxes) or does she split it 2 ways or 3? And what if I win? Is she entitled to any money? What if I win big? What if it is only $50.00?

3) At work we play Yankee Swap at Christmas. One of the gifts is 10 lottery tickets. Swapping is hot because even though several of the gifts are very nice everyone wants the chance to win money. In the end, our boss wins and none of the cards pay off. What if one of them did pay off? Should he "tip" the original giver? What about the person who had the tickets just before him? What about the rest of us? Does he owe us anything at all? What if there is some dispute about the rules of Yankee swap with some people feeling like he cheated?

These are the only times I personally have been involved with a lottery ticket and yet look at how many chances there were for feelings of being cheated or feeling resentful of somebody else's fortune. I'm only surprised that this sort of law suit doesn't happen more often.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 AM on February 11, 2009


I said, but yeah you know, when we did, there was one thing we weren't thinking of, and that's money--money changes everything.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:13 AM on February 11, 2009


It's a bearer instrument and possession is 10/10ths of the law in this case. I think it should have been thrown out of court.

So bz, if Miller had kept the instrument he scratched by elbowing Carley some, he would get to keep all 5 million, even though it seems Carley seems to have paid most (or all) of the money to buy tickets? I would understand that point of view if Carley had scratched 11, and handed Miller 1, but since they scratched together, I think ownership lies not with bearer (Carley) or scratcher (Miller), but with percentage of purchase.

The facts from the second link indicate that it was 120/0, not 110/10

I have no clue on Canadian commercial paper, property, or procedure law, but I like the Sergeant Sandwich/Troy solution much better.
posted by rakish_yet_centered at 8:46 AM on February 11, 2009


Oh, St. Catherines. No doubt both of these guys want to escape the place deeply and desperately.
posted by GuyZero at 9:41 AM on February 11, 2009


Welcome to America: here's your flag pin and subpoena.
posted by tommasz at 11:41 AM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


That is the oldest-looking 27-year old I've ever seen.

I'm 27. Whenever I scroll through my Facebook friends people I went to high school with, that's usually my general impression.

It's a tad horrifying.

I guess it's because half of us are prematurely aged by the thought of never catching up to the other half, who are prematurely aged by marriage, parenthood, home ownership, etc.

Say, what's the 6/49 jackpot these days?
posted by Sys Rq at 1:12 PM on February 11, 2009


GuyZero: That's St. Cath/a/rines, despite every mapmaker who is perfectly comfortable accepting that some people named their town Brkwtz, but can't seem to wrap their head around the idea of a non-standard English-based spelling.

Why yes, I do happen to live in the place. No quakes, no floods, no wildfires, the hint of a tornado maybe once a century, a decent blizzard every few decades... at least until global climate change rearranges things, it's one of the most pleasant places I know.
posted by DataPacRat at 3:19 PM on February 11, 2009


good episode of this american life about a guy that had a job buying lottery winners annual installments for a lump sum.
posted by andywolf at 3:43 PM on February 11, 2009 [1 favorite]


rakish: Yes. My thoughts about anytime someone wins a lottery and someone else contests it saying they had something to do with the purchase doesn't move me one iota. They are clearly stated as being "bearer instruments" and the act of scratching a winning ticket in your hands is, in my view, the uncontestable act of winning.

Maybe a decade or two ago a $4MM lotto winner in the Seattle area was taken to court by the owners of the convenience stroe that the woman worked at and where she bought the winning ticket. There were two owners and they claimed that they were sue 1/3rd of the winnings each because the winner had used change from a spare change bowl in the store to purchase the ticket. Surveillance video from the store proved that she had not used the change from the bowl to buy the ticket. Guess what? The judge still awarded half of the winnings to the store owners. I remember that I was appalled and that is when I researched a bit and found that lotto tickets are bearer instruments. Your possession of a winning ticket is, according to law, the only thing you need to prove ownership.

Unfortunately, few things in civil law are firmly fixed.
posted by bz at 12:12 PM on February 12, 2009


2) My 15 year old is staying with us for the summer and because my husband loves to buy little presents when he goes into the shop to buy something for himself, he comes back to the car with two lottery tickets. She and I scratch our tickets. What happens if she has a winning ticket? Is it hers out right (we will have to claim it for her and pay the taxes) or does she split it 2 ways or 3? And what if I win? Is she entitled to any money? What if I win big? What if it is only $50.00?

Check the local rules before claiming anything, a lot of places won't allow minors to play and thus to claim, if so the answer is: she is entitled to nothing. She better see what she can negotiate with her dear old mom and hope you can be trusted.
posted by biffa at 12:04 PM on February 26, 2009


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