Banks Get What You Paid For
February 17, 2009 11:30 AM Subscribe
Where have the TARP funds gone? Apparently, manipulating elections. Lobbying against consumers, and $530/night retreats for CEOs.
This is the problem with TARP. If banks want to spend their own money on any of these things, good for them. Just let them go through something like a speed bankruptcy.
posted by Pants! at 11:43 AM on February 17, 2009
posted by Pants! at 11:43 AM on February 17, 2009
Did you really think that just because these banks received TARP funds that their execs would suddenly start shacking up at Motel 6 instead of a 5-star hotel? The Treasury put money directly into their pocket, didn't tell them they had to keep the TARP money separate from their own money, and didn't stipulate that they had to keep detailed records of how the money was used. So it's simply not possible to say whether the $530/night hotel was paid with TARP or bank funds.
posted by junesix at 11:44 AM on February 17, 2009
posted by junesix at 11:44 AM on February 17, 2009
Who knew that bankers and CEOs would be the first to cash in when the revolution came?
posted by DU at 11:53 AM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 11:53 AM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Unsurprising revelation is unsurprising.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:54 AM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:54 AM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
More importantly, who cares about a 5 star hotel? If they can't fix structural risk, $25,000 on a meeting won't matter. It's just such a small amount compared to a trillion dollars that it's pointless to talk about.
posted by jaduncan at 11:54 AM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 11:54 AM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
The money they receive should be marked, and any and all payments should be noted as being made with TARP / bailout funds, this will allow us to measure the true level of the public's outrage.
posted by pianomover at 11:59 AM on February 17, 2009
posted by pianomover at 11:59 AM on February 17, 2009
Welfare queens and dole scum, the lot of 'em.
posted by boo_radley at 11:59 AM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 11:59 AM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
$530/night isn't that expensive, when you factor in the hotel, the limousines, the surf & turf, the hookers and the endless rails of coke.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Pastabagel at 12:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
When the banks are finally nationalized, will they still be able to lobby a la Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?
posted by benzenedream at 12:16 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by benzenedream at 12:16 PM on February 17, 2009
US Banking System: Putting the Fun in Fungible since 2008.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:30 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's bad enough that banks "too big to fail" are allowed to exist and the men who ran them into the ground aren't resigning left and right.
The money doesn't matter, it's the freakin' arrogance.
posted by swift at 12:40 PM on February 17, 2009
The money doesn't matter, it's the freakin' arrogance.
posted by swift at 12:40 PM on February 17, 2009
These banks are actually generating cash flow for the most part. They have the money to pay for all this little stuff. The problem is that they were recording huge unrealized mark-to-market losses (as in, non-cash) that hurt their regulatory capital ratios. They need those capital buffers to keep the FDIC from taking their shit and to keep lenders from pulling their funding. The TARP funds just (temporarily) plugged a whole.
The idea that the banks were supposed to "spend" the TARP money on new loans or anything else is just bullshit that Paulson et al told the idiots in Congress to get them to go along. Congress doesn't understand capital ratios, liquidity or solvency or any of the actual important stuff.
The Geithner Plan could work (given a bunch of assumptions about what it really is), but I don't know how you sell it to a Congress or public distracted by all this other crap.
posted by mullacc at 12:43 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
The idea that the banks were supposed to "spend" the TARP money on new loans or anything else is just bullshit that Paulson et al told the idiots in Congress to get them to go along. Congress doesn't understand capital ratios, liquidity or solvency or any of the actual important stuff.
The Geithner Plan could work (given a bunch of assumptions about what it really is), but I don't know how you sell it to a Congress or public distracted by all this other crap.
posted by mullacc at 12:43 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I wish they would spend this money on opulent over-the-top parties in New York because that's my business and I would have some work. I really wish I had some work so I could get a pay check so I can eat some cheap take-out Chinese food and drink beer that isn't malt liquor.
posted by fuq at 12:46 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by fuq at 12:46 PM on February 17, 2009
Congress doesn't understand capital ratios, liquidity or solvency or any of the actual important stuff.
NO! I say that NOBODY actually fully understands the contrived system that has put the economy where it is today. If these people knew what they were doing then the US and world economy wouldn't be in such good shape.
posted by fuq at 12:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
NO! I say that NOBODY actually fully understands the contrived system that has put the economy where it is today. If these people knew what they were doing then the US and world economy wouldn't be in such good shape.
posted by fuq at 12:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
"This other crap" is a big part of the problem. No plan is going to work unless bank executives are personally made to feel some pain when they screw up.
posted by swift at 12:50 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by swift at 12:50 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
What a relief! I thought the money was being wasted.
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by diogenes at 12:52 PM on February 17, 2009
"This other crap" is a big part of the problem.
$3.6 trillion of potential mark-to-market losses is the problem. The greed of individual executives is at best a secondary problem, and hardly a new one at that.
We can fix an insolvent bank system if we act quickly, decisively and intelligently. We can't fix greed.
posted by mullacc at 12:59 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
$3.6 trillion of potential mark-to-market losses is the problem. The greed of individual executives is at best a secondary problem, and hardly a new one at that.
We can fix an insolvent bank system if we act quickly, decisively and intelligently. We can't fix greed.
posted by mullacc at 12:59 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
"This is the demise of a civilization," said Marcus. "This is how a civilization disappears. I am sitting here as an elder statesman and I'm watching this happen and I don't believe it."
If you didn't read that first link, I dare you to guess what he's referring to.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:06 PM on February 17, 2009
If you didn't read that first link, I dare you to guess what he's referring to.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:06 PM on February 17, 2009
Kirth Gerson "If you didn't read that first link, I dare you to guess what he's referring to."
Oh wow, it gets better.
posted by mullingitover at 1:20 PM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
Oh wow, it gets better.
"This bill may be one of the worst things I have ever seen in my life," he said, explaining that he could have been on "a 350-foot boat out in the Mediterranean," but felt it was more important to engage on this fight.I have to agree. My monocle nearly fell into my caviar when I read about this bill.
posted by mullingitover at 1:20 PM on February 17, 2009 [6 favorites]
"So it's simply not possible to say whether the $530/night hotel was paid with TARP or bank funds."
F U N G I B L E
Money is fungible. And the reason we're funding the banks is because they're at least illiquid and probably insolvent.
In other words, any money they have that's liquid enough to spend, is public money.
We gave them this money ostensibly to open up the credit markets; instead, it's all of our money being used to bailout people holding stock in the banks, and to obscenely "reward" the banks' management.
Fuck them, nationalize them, and start prosecuting them.
posted by orthogonality at 1:27 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
F U N G I B L E
Money is fungible. And the reason we're funding the banks is because they're at least illiquid and probably insolvent.
In other words, any money they have that's liquid enough to spend, is public money.
We gave them this money ostensibly to open up the credit markets; instead, it's all of our money being used to bailout people holding stock in the banks, and to obscenely "reward" the banks' management.
Fuck them, nationalize them, and start prosecuting them.
posted by orthogonality at 1:27 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Bernie Marcus, the charismatic co-founder of Home Depot
Shit. I was going to go to Home Depot after work to buy some light bulbs, but I don't want to give this un-American plutocrat my money. Any suggestions as to where else I can get some?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:37 PM on February 17, 2009
Shit. I was going to go to Home Depot after work to buy some light bulbs, but I don't want to give this un-American plutocrat my money. Any suggestions as to where else I can get some?
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:37 PM on February 17, 2009
"The money they receive should be marked, and any and all payments should be noted as being made with TARP / bailout funds, this will allow us to measure the true level of the public's outrage."
I know you're probably being facetious, but the problem with that is that money is fungible. It's not really possible to run a business like that.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:40 PM on February 17, 2009
I know you're probably being facetious, but the problem with that is that money is fungible. It's not really possible to run a business like that.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:40 PM on February 17, 2009
I don't know why this is surprising. As soon as my money leaves my hands and is deposited in the bank, I have no say or idea about how they use my money. For all intents and purposes it's theirs. In fact, I even have to pay them to get my OWN money back. Ken Lewis' attitude doesn't surprise me at all, if he says anything else he's giving up the franchise.
posted by Xurando at 1:44 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by Xurando at 1:44 PM on February 17, 2009
"This is the demise of a civilization," said Marcus. "This is how a civilization disappears. I am sitting here as an elder statesman and I'm watching this happen and I don't believe it."
I saw writeups on this right after it happened. Bernie Marcus is typical of these Ayn-Rand-mindset motherfuckers who think their brilliance is what makes the system great. Workers only count until we can replace them with robots, and until then they don't count for much.
His workers should not only organize, they should get together and beat his ass.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
I saw writeups on this right after it happened. Bernie Marcus is typical of these Ayn-Rand-mindset motherfuckers who think their brilliance is what makes the system great. Workers only count until we can replace them with robots, and until then they don't count for much.
His workers should not only organize, they should get together and beat his ass.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:57 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
On Wednesday, when the bank CEOs came to testify before Congress, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) asked Bank of America CEO Ken Lewis point blank if he would agree that bailed-out banks shouldn’t be using public money to lobby to restrict your right to organize. Lewis refused to agree, answering instead that “doing what’s in the best interest of your company is always the best thing to do”.
Quoted because, in the mindset we've constructed for managers, he's exactly right. It's immoral for a manager to do something with his company that doesn't maximize value for stockholders, whatever that might be.
This has to be changed.
posted by JHarris at 2:02 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Quoted because, in the mindset we've constructed for managers, he's exactly right. It's immoral for a manager to do something with his company that doesn't maximize value for stockholders, whatever that might be.
This has to be changed.
posted by JHarris at 2:02 PM on February 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Why aren't these fuckers in jail, yet?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:16 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:16 PM on February 17, 2009
Why aren't these fuckers in jail, yet?
If they did get sent to jail, they'd just buy the private prison company and move their cells to 350' yachts in the Mediterranean. Jail is for the common people. Just ask Bernie Madoff. You can find him in his $7 million Upper East Side apartment.
posted by ryoshu at 2:21 PM on February 17, 2009
If they did get sent to jail, they'd just buy the private prison company and move their cells to 350' yachts in the Mediterranean. Jail is for the common people. Just ask Bernie Madoff. You can find him in his $7 million Upper East Side apartment.
posted by ryoshu at 2:21 PM on February 17, 2009
"Jail is for the common people. Just ask Bernie Madoff. You can find him in his $7 million Upper East Side apartment."
Oh, he will end up in prison, no doubt about it. I don't think there's any question, but it will take some time to unravel the mess.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:42 PM on February 17, 2009
Oh, he will end up in prison, no doubt about it. I don't think there's any question, but it will take some time to unravel the mess.
posted by krinklyfig at 2:42 PM on February 17, 2009
"This is the demise of a civilization," said Marcus. "This is how a civilization disappears. I am sitting here as an elder statesman and I'm watching this happen and I don't believe it."
Ass-fucking?
posted by spicynuts at 2:54 PM on February 17, 2009
Ass-fucking?
posted by spicynuts at 2:54 PM on February 17, 2009
Oh, he will end up in prison, no doubt about it.
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HAHHHHHH! HA HA HA!
LOLLACOPTERS.
HA HA HAH AH HA HA HAAAA!
HAH!
hehehe.
lol.
posted by stet at 3:17 PM on February 17, 2009
BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HAHHHHHH! HA HA HA!
LOLLACOPTERS.
HA HA HAH AH HA HA HAAAA!
HAH!
hehehe.
lol.
posted by stet at 3:17 PM on February 17, 2009
Some one needs to set up a page with the pictures, addresses, phone numbers, e-mails, and all other associated information of each and every one of the top executives at these corporations so we can all tell them how we feel. :-)
posted by dibblda at 3:38 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by dibblda at 3:38 PM on February 17, 2009
Were they near the commode?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:40 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:40 PM on February 17, 2009
The wastebaskets, not the executives...
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:41 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:41 PM on February 17, 2009
What I don't get is, we've already put enough cash down to capitalize several banks. Not help capitalize existing banks—I'm talking about enough cash to build, from nothing mind you, several banks. But instead of creating a national bank, or five, we instead mix up the good cash with these festering pustules that we already know to have assloads of debt. It's like mixing a tablespoon of fine wine in a barrel of raw sewage. You still end up with sewage.
The economic faucets are going to continue to stay OFF until we can find a way to separate the mortgage debt from the greater system. We could have already paid for a solution to this problem a couple times over but instead it looks like we're just going to watch as our money is stolen right from under our noses. This is the kind of shit that rots empires.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:00 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
The economic faucets are going to continue to stay OFF until we can find a way to separate the mortgage debt from the greater system. We could have already paid for a solution to this problem a couple times over but instead it looks like we're just going to watch as our money is stolen right from under our noses. This is the kind of shit that rots empires.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:00 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
In other news: In what could turn out to be the greatest fraud in US history, American authorities have started to investigate the alleged role of senior military officers in the misuse of $125bn (£88bn) in a US -directed effort to reconstruct Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. The exact sum missing may never be clear, but a report by the US Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) suggests it may exceed $50bn, making it an even bigger theft than Bernard Madoff's notorious Ponzi scheme.
posted by homunculus at 4:12 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by homunculus at 4:12 PM on February 17, 2009
from the first link:
Donations of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars were needed, it was argued, to prevent America from turning "into France."
hmm, foreign-descended president, fashion icon first lady. and you know, i think i sensed a hint of Chèvre in my breakfast burrito.
posted by sidr at 4:13 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Donations of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars were needed, it was argued, to prevent America from turning "into France."
hmm, foreign-descended president, fashion icon first lady. and you know, i think i sensed a hint of Chèvre in my breakfast burrito.
posted by sidr at 4:13 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
homunculus: That's nothing. On Sept. 10th, 2001 Donald Rumsfeld said the DoD can't track $2.3 trillion in spending.
My lootings, let me show you them.
posted by ryoshu at 4:21 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
My lootings, let me show you them.
posted by ryoshu at 4:21 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
NO! I say that NOBODY actually fully understands the contrived system that has put the economy where it is today. If these people knew what they were doing then the US and world economy wouldn't be in such good shape.
posted by fuq at 3:48 PM
You're assuming that what's good for the US and the greater economy is good for them and their shareholders.
Also, you're assuming a collective intelligence of which they are members when no such thing exists. It's *always* the other guy's job to be the responsible one.
posted by Ryvar at 4:56 PM on February 17, 2009
posted by fuq at 3:48 PM
You're assuming that what's good for the US and the greater economy is good for them and their shareholders.
Also, you're assuming a collective intelligence of which they are members when no such thing exists. It's *always* the other guy's job to be the responsible one.
posted by Ryvar at 4:56 PM on February 17, 2009
"The economic faucets are going to continue to stay OFF until we can find a way to separate the mortgage debt from the greater system. We could have already paid for a solution to this problem a couple times over but instead it looks like we're just going to watch as our money is stolen right from under our noses. This is the kind of shit that rots empires."
As far as I understand, that's the partial goal of the upcoming housing bill, and that's also the goal of Geithner in the immediate future. Here's a little bit about it. Sort of scary, but I don't think this is as useless as some would like to believe, and I don't think it's just a giant cash grab. With Paulson in charge, maybe so, or maybe they were just being opportunists and trying to grab some money and run, sort of like what happened with 50 billion in Iraq, as noted above. They fought oversight of the money, but Obama welcomes it. I'm not so cynical to believe that all the politicians are in on this big game and all of us are just dupes.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
As far as I understand, that's the partial goal of the upcoming housing bill, and that's also the goal of Geithner in the immediate future. Here's a little bit about it. Sort of scary, but I don't think this is as useless as some would like to believe, and I don't think it's just a giant cash grab. With Paulson in charge, maybe so, or maybe they were just being opportunists and trying to grab some money and run, sort of like what happened with 50 billion in Iraq, as noted above. They fought oversight of the money, but Obama welcomes it. I'm not so cynical to believe that all the politicians are in on this big game and all of us are just dupes.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:48 PM on February 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
OK, stet, believe that the world is like a cartoon and the evil rich villains like Madoff always get away with their crimes, because life is always tragically poetic like that, and it's easy to believe. If you don't look at the details, it's easy to believe anything your mind wants to make up.
But when you look at the case being built against him, and when you consider that he royally, totally screwed some very powerful people, well, his days are numbered no matter what. The prosecutor wants to make an example out of him. Lots of people with lots of money want him skinned alive. The community of powerful people he used to traffic in has turned against him completely. He has no money, no support and barely a few people who will get paid to protect his life for now, but his cash is not his own, and the courts are going over the people he owes as we speak. They are tracking details of his recent moving cash around that will come back to haunt him, because that's legally not his money - nor is the money paid to investors purportedly as a profit. All of that has to come back. They will get paid back as much as they can squeeze out of him, then they will lock him up for the rest of his life, effectively. And the SEC is building a civil case against him. Even if he plea bargains, I can't see him escaping prison time, and he's not a young man. They are reluctant to let him go, because the public wants him to hang.
You really think he'll skate by? I'd bet hard cash that he won't. He confessed. Nobody is vouching for him. His rich former-friends hate him. It's a sure thing if I ever saw it.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:05 PM on February 17, 2009
But when you look at the case being built against him, and when you consider that he royally, totally screwed some very powerful people, well, his days are numbered no matter what. The prosecutor wants to make an example out of him. Lots of people with lots of money want him skinned alive. The community of powerful people he used to traffic in has turned against him completely. He has no money, no support and barely a few people who will get paid to protect his life for now, but his cash is not his own, and the courts are going over the people he owes as we speak. They are tracking details of his recent moving cash around that will come back to haunt him, because that's legally not his money - nor is the money paid to investors purportedly as a profit. All of that has to come back. They will get paid back as much as they can squeeze out of him, then they will lock him up for the rest of his life, effectively. And the SEC is building a civil case against him. Even if he plea bargains, I can't see him escaping prison time, and he's not a young man. They are reluctant to let him go, because the public wants him to hang.
You really think he'll skate by? I'd bet hard cash that he won't. He confessed. Nobody is vouching for him. His rich former-friends hate him. It's a sure thing if I ever saw it.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:05 PM on February 17, 2009
I've been faxing and calling my senators and congresscritters since last summer's cavalcade of crap. I've built up a rapport with some of the secretaries who answer the phone and, by now probably groan when they look at the caller ID and see my name.
I've gotten to the point where I just call them up to say "I told ya so." I'm waiting for one of the robots to actually give me a more human response other than, "the Congressman/woman thanks you for your input..."
Bastards. Every single fucking one of them. And for the record: yes, I am bitter.
posted by tgrundke at 6:30 PM on February 17, 2009
I've gotten to the point where I just call them up to say "I told ya so." I'm waiting for one of the robots to actually give me a more human response other than, "the Congressman/woman thanks you for your input..."
Bastards. Every single fucking one of them. And for the record: yes, I am bitter.
posted by tgrundke at 6:30 PM on February 17, 2009
So, wait: I thought it was democrats who spend the taxpayer's money thoughtlessly, and the republican ideal of letting the free market be free was going to maximize profits and require minimal spending.
Now my prepackaged media-provided worldview box lunch is all confused. I'm gonna have to get a new one.
Oh, I know: "intelligent, greedy and diligent people are good at getting hold of power AND money." That clears things right up!
posted by davejay at 6:37 PM on February 17, 2009
Now my prepackaged media-provided worldview box lunch is all confused. I'm gonna have to get a new one.
Oh, I know: "intelligent, greedy and diligent people are good at getting hold of power AND money." That clears things right up!
posted by davejay at 6:37 PM on February 17, 2009
So, wait: I thought it was democrats who spend the taxpayer's money thoughtlessly, and the republican ideal of letting the free market be free was going to maximize profits and require minimal spending.
Darn Republicans, railroading the bailout money through Congress over the minority Democrats' objections! If only the 145 House Democrats who voted against the bill hadn't been so hopelessly outnumbered...
posted by roystgnr at 6:59 PM on February 17, 2009
Darn Republicans, railroading the bailout money through Congress over the minority Democrats' objections! If only the 145 House Democrats who voted against the bill hadn't been so hopelessly outnumbered...
posted by roystgnr at 6:59 PM on February 17, 2009
Hmmm... my last post will probably be misinterpreted without clarification:
Just because I point out that someone is blaming Republicans for something that more Democrats enabled, that doesn't mean I don't realize there's plenty to blame Republicans for. Politics is not a football game - you don't have to pick one team to root for, especially not when most of the players from both teams are cheating.
posted by roystgnr at 7:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Just because I point out that someone is blaming Republicans for something that more Democrats enabled, that doesn't mean I don't realize there's plenty to blame Republicans for. Politics is not a football game - you don't have to pick one team to root for, especially not when most of the players from both teams are cheating.
posted by roystgnr at 7:03 PM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Of course Bernie Madoff will go to jail. I'm sure we would never waltz past the private security guards that he's paying to babysit him and onto a private jet to a non-extradition country.
Frankly, if that isn't a Madoff lookalike in that penthouse right now, he's a bigger dumbass than we all thought.
posted by dr_dank at 7:12 PM on February 17, 2009
Frankly, if that isn't a Madoff lookalike in that penthouse right now, he's a bigger dumbass than we all thought.
posted by dr_dank at 7:12 PM on February 17, 2009
You really think he'll skate by? I'd bet hard cash that he won't.
Define skate. You think he'll end up in a maximum security rape factory like a non-violent drug offender? You think he'll get the shit kicked out of him by guards or other inmates? You think the cops will stop him? At best he'll get a few months in a federal country club (where country club is defined as a confinement facility where rape is not an implicit part of the sentence) and he'll be happily spending his money as a free man.
Sorry if I sound cranky, but I spent the weekend listening to my father-in-law the judge explain to me that corruption is "just the way it is" and that it's alright for cops to frame people so long as they're, you know, bad people.
So I'll take that bet.
posted by stet at 8:10 PM on February 17, 2009
Define skate. You think he'll end up in a maximum security rape factory like a non-violent drug offender? You think he'll get the shit kicked out of him by guards or other inmates? You think the cops will stop him? At best he'll get a few months in a federal country club (where country club is defined as a confinement facility where rape is not an implicit part of the sentence) and he'll be happily spending his money as a free man.
Sorry if I sound cranky, but I spent the weekend listening to my father-in-law the judge explain to me that corruption is "just the way it is" and that it's alright for cops to frame people so long as they're, you know, bad people.
So I'll take that bet.
posted by stet at 8:10 PM on February 17, 2009
Just like Ken Lay, Bernie Madoff will luck out and die comfortably in his own bed before he ever gets convicted.
Keep this in mind: The only reason he is being investigated now is because he openly admitted to running a Ponzi scheme! The SEC has been told for decades that he was pretty much openly committing a Ponzi scheme. The only reason they're "investigating" now is because Madoff openly admitted to it, and they can't hide it anymore. If he were ten years younger, we wouldn't have heard about this for another decade, because the government has no interest in investigating people who make lots of money.
Take this to the bank (heh): Bernie Madoff admitted to his Ponzi scheme because he knows he's near death and that he wouldn't live to see conviction, much less jail time. If you live in America and can steal tens of billions of dollars, you will get away with it every single time.
So, yeah. I'll take that bet, too.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:41 PM on February 17, 2009
Keep this in mind: The only reason he is being investigated now is because he openly admitted to running a Ponzi scheme! The SEC has been told for decades that he was pretty much openly committing a Ponzi scheme. The only reason they're "investigating" now is because Madoff openly admitted to it, and they can't hide it anymore. If he were ten years younger, we wouldn't have heard about this for another decade, because the government has no interest in investigating people who make lots of money.
Take this to the bank (heh): Bernie Madoff admitted to his Ponzi scheme because he knows he's near death and that he wouldn't live to see conviction, much less jail time. If you live in America and can steal tens of billions of dollars, you will get away with it every single time.
So, yeah. I'll take that bet, too.
posted by dirigibleman at 10:41 PM on February 17, 2009
krinklyfig - believe me, I want to believe you. But what happens to all his monies if he dies? Or, "dies," if you prefer.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:01 AM on February 18, 2009
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:01 AM on February 18, 2009
Donations of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars were needed, it was argued, to prevent America from turning "into France."
Oh no, not France!
But seriously, is living in France really the nightmare everyone thinks it is? I hear they have pretty good wine and cheese over there. What about the average number of holidays for a unionized worker in France?
posted by sour cream at 8:08 AM on February 18, 2009
Oh no, not France!
But seriously, is living in France really the nightmare everyone thinks it is? I hear they have pretty good wine and cheese over there. What about the average number of holidays for a unionized worker in France?
posted by sour cream at 8:08 AM on February 18, 2009
Hey, they have single-payer health care.
It's Hell over there.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:21 AM on February 18, 2009
It's Hell over there.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:21 AM on February 18, 2009
"Define skate. You think he'll end up in a maximum security rape factory like a non-violent drug offender?"
White collar criminals don't go to those prisons anyway. That's rather a moot point.
He has no powerful friends - but he has a lot of powerful enemies now - and no money. I don't think he can go anywhere in the world and escape his ignoble celebrity. I don't think he can walk down the street in almost any city in the world without getting accosted. Sometimes, guys like that do go to jail. It tends to happen more when times get tight and when people want blood for their suffering.
Keep this in mind: The only reason he is being investigated now is because he openly admitted to running a Ponzi scheme!
And why did he admit it? Because running this scheme under the current economic conditions is impossible. Why do you think we're hearing about a lot more people than just Madoff running giant Ponzi schemes?
posted by krinklyfig at 11:57 AM on February 18, 2009
White collar criminals don't go to those prisons anyway. That's rather a moot point.
He has no powerful friends - but he has a lot of powerful enemies now - and no money. I don't think he can go anywhere in the world and escape his ignoble celebrity. I don't think he can walk down the street in almost any city in the world without getting accosted. Sometimes, guys like that do go to jail. It tends to happen more when times get tight and when people want blood for their suffering.
Keep this in mind: The only reason he is being investigated now is because he openly admitted to running a Ponzi scheme!
And why did he admit it? Because running this scheme under the current economic conditions is impossible. Why do you think we're hearing about a lot more people than just Madoff running giant Ponzi schemes?
posted by krinklyfig at 11:57 AM on February 18, 2009
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posted by Navelgazer at 11:32 AM on February 17, 2009 [2 favorites]