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I blame Star Trek.
May 26, 2009 9:19 AM   Subscribe

Well, she's already been rebooted once, died twice and come back as a comic book. I'm sure she'll survive a feature relaunch.
posted by permafrost (72 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
Gag me with a stake, fer shure.
posted by The Whelk at 9:21 AM on May 26, 2009


Buffy" creator Joss Whedon isn't involved

FAIL
posted by EatTheWeak at 9:21 AM on May 26, 2009 [24 favorites]


"Buffy" creator Joss Whedon isn't involved

Oh yeah... this can't miss.

[written as someone who doesn't even like this franchise]
posted by Joe Beese at 9:22 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


.
posted by Tesseractive at 9:24 AM on May 26, 2009


Blasphemy!
posted by RussHy at 9:25 AM on May 26, 2009


The parties are meeting with writers and hearing takes, and later will look for a home for the project.

I am glad you went ahead and posted this. I am going to go ahead and camp out now so I can be first in line to buy tickets when it comes out on 2017.
posted by ND¢ at 9:26 AM on May 26, 2009


Man, several people have already copied the line I was going to.
posted by graventy at 9:27 AM on May 26, 2009


When are they going to reimage/redo/remythologize/retell Rocket Robin Hood?
posted by juiceCake at 9:29 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


nor would it use popular supporting characters like Angel, Willow, Xander or Spike

Systemic FAILure.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:37 AM on May 26, 2009 [3 favorites]


I'm still waiting for the Robocop reboot.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:38 AM on May 26, 2009


This bites.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:38 AM on May 26, 2009


That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!
posted by adipocere at 9:43 AM on May 26, 2009 [12 favorites]


This is 100% worse than a world without shrimp.
posted by shiu mai baby at 9:47 AM on May 26, 2009 [12 favorites]


This does bring up a question I've been kicking around ever since I saw Neu Trek: What are the ideal conditions for a reboot? Is it a matter of time? Is it what you do when the pre-existing mythos presents new creators with too heavy a Gordian Knot to unravel? When is it a practical solution and when is it a lazy way to get around creative challenges?

For instance, I think Abrams' Trek works because the franchise was in dire need of a continuity purge and the original cast and creative staff were either quite old or had passed on. None of these conditions are present for this Buffy proposal, really. The continuity might be a little thick for newcomers, but we're certainly not talking the decades-deep buildup that was bogging down Trek.
posted by EatTheWeak at 9:52 AM on May 26, 2009 [5 favorites]


Man, several people have already copied the line I was going to.

It's the old Hollywood story: only one typewriter, but a thousand copiers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:53 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


What the fuck?

(That's my considered response... Though after further thought I'd concur: At the very least it's way, way too soon. But mostly unnecessary and, what the fuck?)
posted by opsin at 9:56 AM on May 26, 2009


Can't they just make it a hardcore porno and be done with it finally?
posted by Burhanistan at 10:00 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


I'm still waiting for the ALF reboot. I kill me.
posted by ALongDecember at 10:03 AM on May 26, 2009


the original cast and creative staff were either quite old or had passed on. None of these conditions are present for this Buffy proposal, really.

None of the actors in Buffy are old for human beings, but what about those playing eternally unchanging vampires? This is Angel from Buffy season 1 and here he is today. Time for a reboot!
posted by ND¢ at 10:09 AM on May 26, 2009 [6 favorites]


EatTheWeek asks: This does bring up a question I've been kicking around ever since I saw Neu Trek: What are the ideal conditions for a reboot?

A good question which I am enjoying mulling over. Battlestar Galactica: good premise, original series was terrible, reboot! Star Trek: burdened by decades of plot and character, as you said.

What needs to be fixed about "Buffy"? What space is there for a re-imagining that will have fans saying, "I always wished they'd follow this thread," or "I always wondered what would happen if condition X prevailed in the Buffyverse." I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but would be interested to hear others' ideas.
posted by not that girl at 10:11 AM on May 26, 2009


Can't they just make it a hardcore porno

Buffy the Vampire Layer?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:13 AM on May 26, 2009 [4 favorites]


OK, one thing I would welcome: the new Buffy does not whine.
posted by not that girl at 10:14 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


If they just retcon away season 6 and 7 of the series that should be enough.
posted by ooga_booga at 10:15 AM on May 26, 2009


Yeah she died to save Dawn from the curly haired evil god and everything that happened after that was something Dawn dreamed. And there was no Dawn.
posted by ND¢ at 10:18 AM on May 26, 2009


I'm eagerly anticipating next year's LOST reboot.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:28 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


I think that the proposed remake will be superseded by a documentary on the Kuzuis' escape from the terrifying tsunami of hate male from Whedon groupies.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


Mail! Sheesh!
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:31 AM on May 26, 2009


blue_beetle: "I'm still waiting for the Robocop reboot."

I'm not sure if you were joking or not but that's in the planning stage.
posted by octothorpe at 10:35 AM on May 26, 2009


More important than Buffy, than Robocop, Star Trek and Lost combined:
the ReBoot Reboot.

reboot.
posted by Lemurrhea at 10:44 AM on May 26, 2009 [5 favorites]


boo.
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 10:50 AM on May 26, 2009


This is clearly worse than North Korean nuclear tests!
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on May 26, 2009


The new "Buffy" film, however, would have no connection to the TV series, nor would it use popular supporting characters like Angel, Willow, Xander or Spike.

Bored now.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 10:57 AM on May 26, 2009 [28 favorites]


This is moronic on so many levels -- don't the Kuzuis realize that they risk damaging theiproperty by alienating the creator? They're poisoning their own well before any water has been drawn. They should have tried to partner with Whedon on a Fray film.

As TheWhiteSkull said earlier, this is a systemic FAILure.
posted by vhsiv at 11:00 AM on May 26, 2009


Those fucking asshole fuckmonkey jerkface hobo-sucking-offing bastard sons of illegitimate goats soaked in asshole sauce with a side of idiot coleslaw need to have their stupid faces shoved in, preferably with a spike of some kind and I don't mean the cute Spike kind and OH MY GOD I HATE THOSE KAZUIS SO GODDAMN MUCH RIGHT NOW AND AM TEMPTED TO MAKE A COMMENT THAT INVOLVES THE WORDS "DIE", "IN," "A" and "FIRE" BUT I'M NOT GONNA BECAUSE THAT IS TOO GOOD FOR THEM OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOD.

/insert 'eponysterical!' comment about my username
/insert 'gee, why don't you tell us how you really feel?" comment
/sign the petition, please, not that it'll do any good.

Funniest headline related to this I've seen thus far = Fran Rubel Kuzui and Vertigo Entertainment successfully troll 3/4 of the internet
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:05 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


I can't frickin' stand Buffy or Joss Whedon in general, but even I can see that this is a failure of epic proportions.
posted by katillathehun at 11:06 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


“What needs to be fixed about "Buffy"?”

Got into an argument with a girl buddy of mine about how much I hated Buffy. Everything Buffy. Everything about Buffy. She argued that it was a quality series within the Joe Campbell hero arc, all that- and made me sit down and watch this one she thought was great (hell, I even forgot what it was about). Afterward she says “Well? What do you think?”
I said “I didn’t say it wasn’t any good. I said I hated it.”
She screamed at me.
I dunno, why do people think you have to like what they like? Isn’t appreciation enough? It’s quality. I see that. Great epic elements there. Yeah. I don’t like it.
But that’s what makes that question, for me, all the more poignant. What the hell’s wrong with it? Nothing as far as I can see. I mean, I still probably won’t like it. I don’t like Yams. You can bake them or fry them – I’m still not going to like them. But why reboot yams? Something is well made, you’ve made your artistic statement, it’s good work, why ask for a mulligan?
…oh, yeah, money, right.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:08 AM on May 26, 2009 [4 favorites]


Maybe there might be something worth mining out of the Season 6 (I think) ep where it's suggested that the whole series is just a figment in the crazy mind of an institutionalized Buffy. Maybe.

But good lord, you're talking about one of the most fascinating shows ever to hit television, one that could be enjoyed both as a high school (then college) dramedy (hate that word, can't think of a better) and as a complex, layered series that used the supernatural as a device to explore things that make being a teenager so fucking tough. I mean, when was the last time you saw a show that was marketed to the 14-21 age set and yet was also sophisticated enough to made use of the Platonic allegory of the cave (see: Season 7, "Get It Done")? This is a show that has affected pop culture language (e.g., tacking on "y" to a verb to make it into an adjective, like "fighty"), and raised to prominence the idea of an unapologetically ass-kicking female lead that paved the way for everyone from Syndey Bristow to Kara "Starbuck" Thrace. This is a show about which people have based dissertations and peer-reviewed papers.

It's just staggering the amount of hubris/greed/stones/whatever it takes to decide that a show of that magnitude is due a fucking reboot. Barf.
posted by shiu mai baby at 11:19 AM on May 26, 2009 [6 favorites]


Having recovered from my "the Kazuis suck off hoboes for money" tirade... what shiu mai baby just said.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:20 AM on May 26, 2009


For instance, I think Abrams' Trek works because the franchise was in dire need of a continuity purge and the original cast and creative staff were either quite old or had passed on.

The new Trek might work on its own terms, but it seems like a completely populist exercise in milking the franchise for money. Up to DS9, trek had a compelling if straightforward line in political commentary, the DS9 universe in particular spoke to and dealt with that irritating glossy optimism of TNG (which is also what I love about TNG) and showed how previous hokiness could be folded into the continuity with a degree of intelligence, it didn't require jettisoning the whole history rather the political device of shared outpost in contentious territory allowed the characters to comment on the previously official ideology of trek from a distance. None of it was particularly cool, and the commentary itself was probably painfully obvious and didactic (I'm not a massive Trekkie and haven't watched it in a while), but it definitely had running room and wasn't about being cool. Counter detractors who tell trekkies that "it's never been cool, so quit your whining" completely miss the point, it's one thing to have a cultural scene gradually "packaged up" and sold off (and I think we've all accepted that sort of encroachment), it's another thing to have that scene instantaneously obliterated and completely replaced by a product engineered to be as broadly marketable as possible. There was definitely some mileage left in DS9 for a more nuanced idea of a compromised, overextended, paranoid superpower, and given how well Battlestar Galactica has done there was clearly an audience for intelligent space dramas. In choosing to forgo all of that the guys running the show obviously decided it was only about the money.
posted by doobiedoo at 11:23 AM on May 26, 2009


Hey, Enterprise is still part of the NuTrek timeline!

Woof
posted by Artw at 11:25 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


sorry for the rambling derail
posted by doobiedoo at 11:26 AM on May 26, 2009


There's probably bunnies behind it all.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 11:29 AM on May 26, 2009 [13 favorites]


That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo, PontifexPrimus!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:35 AM on May 26, 2009


Artw - That cracked me up when Scotty fired off that "Admiral Archer" line. The one Trek series that seemed to give continuity priests the biggest fits has now doubled down into canon. Whether we speak of Neu Trek or Shat Trek, Enterprise happened, yo.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:47 AM on May 26, 2009 [3 favorites]


I just hope Pee Wee's in it again.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:49 AM on May 26, 2009 [4 favorites]


I love the original movie. I hate the tv series with the passion of a thousand suns. Truly. Hate it. I doubt I'll even see the new movie.
posted by zizzle at 11:54 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


To steal a line from a different fandom: "There is no curse in Elvish, Entish, or the tongues of Men for this treachery."
posted by Ber at 11:57 AM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


doobiedoo: "I'm not a massive Trekkie... the guys running the show obviously decided it was only about the money"

Perhaps you wouldn't wear a Starfleet uniform to jury duty. But that Paramount's profit motive bothered you - that you even particularly noticed it - means that you're as much of a Trekkie as you need to be.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:58 AM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


Needless to say, I'm in the "Down with this sort of thing" camp...

There's a good (if predictable) discussion of this going on at Whedonesque...
posted by benzo8 at 12:10 PM on May 26, 2009


I'm not particulary bothered by the reboot. It'll probably suck, but Buffy seasons 6 and 7 kind of dulled my love for Whedon's Buffy so I'm interested to see if anyone else can make it interesting again.

and [Buffy] raised to prominence the idea of an unapologetically ass-kicking female lead that paved the way for everyone from Syndey Bristow to Kara "Starbuck" Thrace.

Actually, you'd want Xena for that.
posted by nooneyouknow at 12:24 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


Actually, you'd want Xena for that.

Or Emma Peel.
posted by Prospero at 12:50 PM on May 26, 2009 [3 favorites]


EatTheWeak: This does bring up a question I've been kicking around ever since I saw Neu Trek: What are the ideal conditions for a reboot?

Probably some time after you've mined all of the existing spinoff ideas in various stages of development.
posted by mkultra at 12:55 PM on May 26, 2009


What needs to be fixed about "Buffy"?

The vampires don't sparkle enough.
posted by Squeak Attack at 1:30 PM on May 26, 2009 [5 favorites]


Plus, she really died three times because in the Evil Willow story arc at the end of season 6, Buffy's heart had already stopped when she was on the table (after Warren shot her) and Evil Willow pulled the bullet out of her, so that has to be equally as valid as Xander giving her CPR in season 1 after she drowned in that puddle when facing the Master plus the musical episode she sang "hey I've died twice" but that was early in season 6 before the Evil Willow story arc and oh dear God could I be any more pathetic

um, carry on


posted by ebarker at 2:21 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


I just hope Pee Wee's in it again.

I know, right? The original movie has unfairly been lost in the swirl of Nu Buffy media. I know it wasn't true to Whedon's vision, yada yada, but it was a really great movie.

Also, I developed a mega crush on Kristy Swanson due to the film, so there is that.

I think Kristy's available, Kazuis.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:32 PM on May 26, 2009


If this is just an elaborate scheme to create more buzz when they announce they're giving Mr. Whedon lots of money to do whatever he wants instead than they're geniuses. If not... well...
posted by haveanicesummer at 2:40 PM on May 26, 2009


Funniest headline related to this I've seen thus far = Fran Rubel Kuzui and Vertigo Entertainment successfully troll 3/4 of the internet

Maybe the Kuzuis should run a site wherein they survey the fanbase... and offer a Free Credit Report into the bargain.

I love the original movie. I hate the tv series with the passion of a thousand suns. Truly. Hate it. I doubt I'll even see the new movie.

This really does point up just how different in sensibility the movie and TV show were, because I think I was devoting the passion of those exact same thousand suns toward hating the movie.

Anyway, I suspect this isn't going anywhere; actually, I'd be happy to see it go somewhere, if it *didn't* include the main actors and characters from the TV show. The latter was wrapped up in a nice big bow (though season 7 was comparatively awful), and the actors are probably all too old for that universe.
posted by darth_tedious at 2:43 PM on May 26, 2009


I dunno, why do people think you have to like what they like?

Because it occupies such a large and strategically-placed chunk of their emotional universe. I've gone through that with both some fairly general fandoms (Star Trek) and some fairly specific (Watchmen, the original GN, not the movie). In both cases, I simply had to come to grips with the fact that some very smart people with varied tastes, who I was very fond of, just couldn't get into them, or not nearly as much as I did. In the long run, that was a good thing, as puzzling out what drew me and not them to these things helped me with the larger puzzle of just what the hell I was all about, anyway. In the short run, though, it was a bit painful.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:44 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


mkultra - You're dead right. That list you linked contained "Faith the Vampire Slayer" - why are we having any discussions at all about developing any other Buffy related properties with this series still unproduced? Hell, what are Whedon and Dushku bothering with Dollhouse for when there's a much, much better show they could be making?

But the show was basically going to be Faith meets Kung Fu. It would have been Faith, probably on a motorcycle, crossing the earth, trying to find her place in the world.

Really now. We missed out on this so that Tru Calling could happen? Oy.

Either this or that "Ripper" series from the list. No reboots til you've finished all your spin-offs!
posted by EatTheWeak at 3:08 PM on May 26, 2009 [2 favorites]


I'm sure *someone* out there cares enough about Flight of the Navigator to be upset by this.
posted by Artw at 3:18 PM on May 26, 2009


That list you linked contained "Faith the Vampire Slayer" - why are we having any discussions at all about developing any other Buffy related properties with this series still unproduced?

You know, a year ago I would have totally agreed with you, EatTheWeak, but after watching Dushku galumph her way through Dollhouse -- a role that most actors would've loved to have, in terms of being able to demonstrate your range through a character who literally gets to be someone else each week -- I came to the reluctant conclusion that she just doesn't have the chops to be able to carry an entire series. Don't get me wrong: she was good at times, and she was always really really good as Faith, but wow, was she shockingly mediocre as Echo.

Also, to the BtVS Season 6 and 7 h8t0rz: They don't suck nearly as much as you remember if you go back and rewatch them on DVD. This is especially true for 7, which benefits greatly once you know where they're ultimately headed with the series finale. When they originally aired, 6 felt too anvilicious with the witchcraft = drugs! metaphor, and 7 meandered like an alzheimer's patient with vertigo. Burnished by nostalgia and helped by a healthy dose of foresight, though, they don't suck nearly as much. They're no Season 2 or 3, of course, and no episode will ever come close to the gravitas of "The Body," but they're still pretty darned good.
posted by shiu mai baby at 3:58 PM on May 26, 2009


More important than Buffy, than Robocop, Star Trek and Lost combined:
the ReBoot Reboot.


yeeeeesssssss

If they're bringing back Buffy they ought to toss some money towards a Big Wolf on Campus revival, 'cause that show was way funnier.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 4:11 PM on May 26, 2009


"Interesting," I thought. "I should consider adding the BtVS series to my Netflix queue. Finally see what all the hype is about."

Then:

Plus, she really died three times because in the Evil Willow story arc at the end of season 6, Buffy's heart had already stopped when she was on the table (after Warren shot her) and Evil Willow pulled the bullet out of her, so that has to be equally as valid as Xander giving her CPR in season 1 after she drowned in that puddle when facing the Master plus the musical episode she sang "hey I've died twice" but that was early in season 6 before the Evil Willow story arc and oh dear God could I be any more pathetic

o.O

Never mind.
posted by zarq at 4:19 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


and she was always really really good as Faith

Just goes to show fans of the same show can have an entirely different take on things as well. Every Faith scene ever was an exercise in absolute maudlin horror for me. Soooooooooooooooooo bad. I've avoided Dollhouse thus far for this reason.
posted by haveanicesummer at 7:09 PM on May 26, 2009


I don't know what's worse, the lack of Whedon's involvement or the addition of Roy Lee's, the man responsible for pillaging alot of very good Asian cinema and "rebooting" them into Hollywood crap. This is a clear case of DOUBLE SUCKAGE.
posted by cazoo at 7:28 PM on May 26, 2009


zarq: you should still watch it. Joss Whedon shows tend to be more about characters and themes, rather than plot. The primary element to pay attention to in Buffy is that the monsters tend to directly correlated to their more mundane, non-supernatural problems. Season 1 kind of sucks, though.
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:18 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


Never mind.

No, don't nevermind it, it's worth it! Seriously, that musical episode is one of the most fun hours of television ever produced, and the series throughout had some fantastic characters, jokes, and episodes. It is by no means perfect, but it is a quality show.
posted by graventy at 8:55 PM on May 26, 2009


Seriously, that musical episode is one of the most fun hours of television ever produced

I think this needs to qualifier of "if you've already watched a lot of the show and gotten invested in the characters".

I've heard of people trying to introduce people to the show with that episode, because it's one they love. This make about as much sense to me as juggling geese. It's a really fun episode, but only because you care about the characters and the world they inhabit.

Or just really hate bunnies.
posted by flaterik at 10:10 PM on May 26, 2009 [1 favorite]


I'm sure *someone* out there cares enough about Flight of the Navigator to be upset by this.

::raises hand sheepishly::

I'm cautiously interested in a Buffy reboot - there wasn't anything much wrong with the series that needs fixing, but I'd watch a different Slayer do her thing quite happily. However, I have my doubts that this particular setup will be any good.

Am I the only one who doesn't like the musical episode? It only works if you lobotomise Xander, to make him forget everything he'd learned about trusting demons (or not) over the last few years. Then again, I'm not a huge fan of musicals to start with. And it doesn't work as an intro to the series for the same reason Out of Gas doesn't work as an intro to Firefly, or Naked Time to Star Trek - they all rely on you knowing/caring about the characters before the episode starts.
posted by harriet vane at 12:55 AM on May 27, 2009


Yeah, that's quite true, I wouldn't start a person on it.

I still really like it
posted by graventy at 7:29 AM on May 27, 2009


I adore the musical ep, but the "oops, Xander did it" thing drives me crazy b/c he just would not.
posted by Mavri at 10:55 AM on May 27, 2009


I loved the movie, I tried to like the show, but every time SMG came on screen I felt a visceral sense of disgust and loathing. I'm not sure what it is about casting for Whedon shows, but I always hate at least one actor/character. I'm not blaming Marcia Shulman, her other work seems decent.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:47 AM on May 28, 2009


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