"Anybody Can Kill Anybody"
August 6, 2009 10:04 AM Subscribe
Lynette 'Squeaky' Fromme, former member of the Manson Family and would-be assassin of President Gerald Ford, is being released from prison after 34 years behind bars. But did she really try to assassinate Ford in the first place?
I am unworthy of your love, Charlie darling.
posted by benzenedream at 10:15 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 10:15 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sqeaky bears a striking physical resemblance to my mom, actually. So much that my grandpa freaked out a bit upon first hearing the news of the attempt on Ford's life.
Also, letting her out, not a good idea.
posted by jonmc at 10:18 AM on August 6, 2009
Also, letting her out, not a good idea.
posted by jonmc at 10:18 AM on August 6, 2009
"Hmm, you're a member of crazy-ass apocalyptic cult that worships a psycho ex-con and you tried to kill the president, then escaped from jail. You seem like a sound parole risk to me..."
Who the fuck are these people turning down?
posted by jonmc at 10:22 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Who the fuck are these people turning down?
posted by jonmc at 10:22 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can't read a reference to the Manson Family without hearing the Addams Family theme song.
The Man-son Fam-i-lee! Duh duh duh DUM! Chik chik....
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:24 AM on August 6, 2009
The Man-son Fam-i-lee! Duh duh duh DUM! Chik chik....
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:24 AM on August 6, 2009
Check out her "top 11" http://www.myspace.com/lynettefromme
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:26 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by Liquidwolf at 10:26 AM on August 6, 2009
From the SF Gate article:
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:26 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
On Sept. 5, 1975, as Ford was on his way to address the California Legislature, Fromme was in the crowd, wearing a red dress, turban and purse. As Ford drew near, Fromme pulled a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol, aimed it at the president and pulled the trigger.Sure looks like she meant to kill him, not just wave the gun around. She pointed a loaded gun at the president and pulled the trigger. Dumb luck she didn't have one in the chamber.
Witnesses nearby heard the "click" of the hammer dropping. Secret Service agents later found that the pistol had four rounds in its magazine, but the chamber was empty.
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:26 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
They released Arthur Bremer too. Who's next? Sirhan Sirhan?
posted by jonp72 at 10:31 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by jonp72 at 10:31 AM on August 6, 2009
Whoa -- i've seen some creepy myspace pages, but hers takes the cake.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 10:34 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 10:34 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
How cool is that Devil's Witches jacket patch?
posted by stinkycheese at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by stinkycheese at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2009
What does it take to keep a murderer and a thwarted assain in prision?
I'm against the death penalty, but it's crap like this that makes people think that a more permanant solution is appropriate.
I thought they threw away the key.
Also wasn't she freshly on parole when she made the attempt?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2009
I'm against the death penalty, but it's crap like this that makes people think that a more permanant solution is appropriate.
I thought they threw away the key.
Also wasn't she freshly on parole when she made the attempt?
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:40 AM on August 6, 2009
Nope, I'm wrong about the parole thing.
She was just petitioning for the release of the Manson Family. THEN she made an attempt on his life.
Oh, and just a bit of irony. The klutziest president saved by klutzy gun handling.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:43 AM on August 6, 2009
She was just petitioning for the release of the Manson Family. THEN she made an attempt on his life.
Oh, and just a bit of irony. The klutziest president saved by klutzy gun handling.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:43 AM on August 6, 2009
Klutziest president? Before Bush attended the Olympics, I might have agreed with you.
posted by box at 10:45 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 10:45 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
AFAIK, prisoners are still generally not allowed access to the internet. At the very least, this Myspace page is being done by someone else on behalf of a prisoner who has possibly (and quite probably) never even touched a personal computer.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:47 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:47 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
TV News: Wrong Again
Huffington Post: Wrong Again.
posted by cjets at 10:51 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Huffington Post: Wrong Again.
posted by cjets at 10:51 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Her intention was to wave the gun around and get arrested.
My intention is to wave my fist around in the air near your face, merely to illustrate my point that you're a fucktard.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:55 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
My intention is to wave my fist around in the air near your face, merely to illustrate my point that you're a fucktard.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:55 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Two assassination attempts in less than three weeks. Ford had a crappy September that year. And one of the least exciting presidents inspires more assassination attempts than more exciting ones.
January 30, 1835: Richard Lawrence tries to kill Andrew Jackson, but both pistols misfire. "Lawrence was apprehended after Jackson beat him down with a cane." October 13, 1912: John Schrank shoots Teddy Roosevelt in the chest, but the bullet is slowed by a 50-page speech in Roosevelt's pocket. Roosevelt gives the speech with a bullet in his chest. "I don't know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot; but it takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose."
Or tried to ride a Segwey. Or tried to eat a pretzel.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:59 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
January 30, 1835: Richard Lawrence tries to kill Andrew Jackson, but both pistols misfire. "Lawrence was apprehended after Jackson beat him down with a cane." October 13, 1912: John Schrank shoots Teddy Roosevelt in the chest, but the bullet is slowed by a 50-page speech in Roosevelt's pocket. Roosevelt gives the speech with a bullet in his chest. "I don't know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot; but it takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose."
Klutziest president? Before Bush attended the Olympics, I might have agreed with you.
Or tried to ride a Segwey. Or tried to eat a pretzel.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:59 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
What does it take to keep a murderer and a thwarted assassin in prision
Well, she's never been convicted of murder. I would hope that at least a conviction would be necessary to keep a murderer in prison....
posted by mr_roboto at 10:59 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, she's never been convicted of murder. I would hope that at least a conviction would be necessary to keep a murderer in prison....
posted by mr_roboto at 10:59 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Who the fuck are these people turning down?
Well mostly minorities, minor non-violent drug offenders, people who got "third strikes" for stealing gum- pretty much everyone, really. if you think California is putting and keeping too FEW people in prison, well that is really just not right by any rational measurement.
Don't know much about Fromme, but I assume she's old, harmless, and remorseful for something she did as a very young , cult-added person. So the theatrical outrage at this of all things is a little odd.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:05 AM on August 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
Well mostly minorities, minor non-violent drug offenders, people who got "third strikes" for stealing gum- pretty much everyone, really. if you think California is putting and keeping too FEW people in prison, well that is really just not right by any rational measurement.
Don't know much about Fromme, but I assume she's old, harmless, and remorseful for something she did as a very young , cult-added person. So the theatrical outrage at this of all things is a little odd.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:05 AM on August 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
Ok so I guess she was in federal prison, but the point holds.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:07 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:07 AM on August 6, 2009
By the way, someone else has done a LiveJournal for her, as well. Scroll down and there's a mildly NSFW picture of her and another Mansonite (I think) as well as a screencap of her from an A&E interview from 2000, in which she bears a slight but distinct resemblance to Meryl Streep.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:07 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:07 AM on August 6, 2009
Don't know much about Fromme,
Glad to see you didn't let that stop you from making grandiose proclamations.
posted by jonmc at 11:13 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
Glad to see you didn't let that stop you from making grandiose proclamations.
posted by jonmc at 11:13 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, letting her out, not a good idea.
She's an old woman, she didn't actually kill anybody, the Ford thing was clearly never a serious attempt or she could have blown his brains out and she's served what -- more than thirty years?
Why the hell wouldn't you let her out?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:14 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
She's an old woman, she didn't actually kill anybody, the Ford thing was clearly never a serious attempt or she could have blown his brains out and she's served what -- more than thirty years?
Why the hell wouldn't you let her out?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:14 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Soon to be a major motion picture, "Squeaky Fromme : The Mouse That Roared"
posted by Afroblanco at 11:17 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by Afroblanco at 11:17 AM on August 6, 2009
Why the hell wouldn't you let her out?
Ummm, her sentence was Life, the fact that she didn't manage to kill anybody was merely chance, she still is a Manson devotee, and she already escaped once. What about that spells 'good parole risk' to you?
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on August 6, 2009
Ummm, her sentence was Life, the fact that she didn't manage to kill anybody was merely chance, she still is a Manson devotee, and she already escaped once. What about that spells 'good parole risk' to you?
posted by jonmc at 11:18 AM on August 6, 2009
Also, in most circumstances, vulnerable women who are manipulated by predatory ex-con pimps tend to get our sympathy. The most interesting thing about the Manson women, IMO, is the degree of national hysteria that a couple of girls in their late teens seemed to engender.
Were Americans all scared that hoardes of hot young hippie chicks were about to rise up and slaughter them in their beds? Or were they scared that their own teenage daughters might go native and get a taste for cultic convict pimpmeisters?
Either way, Squeaky's sentence was grossly out of proportion to her crimes.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:22 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Were Americans all scared that hoardes of hot young hippie chicks were about to rise up and slaughter them in their beds? Or were they scared that their own teenage daughters might go native and get a taste for cultic convict pimpmeisters?
Either way, Squeaky's sentence was grossly out of proportion to her crimes.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:22 AM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
The most interesting thing about the Manson women, IMO, is the degree of national hysteria that a couple of girls in their late teens seemed to engender.
We should remind ourselves that the action of individuals is inconsequential. It's one of those things, if we really believe it then maybe we can make it come true.
posted by nervousfritz at 11:28 AM on August 6, 2009
We should remind ourselves that the action of individuals is inconsequential. It's one of those things, if we really believe it then maybe we can make it come true.
posted by nervousfritz at 11:28 AM on August 6, 2009
I don't think she's actually dangerous at this point, but she is one of the last two hardcore Manson followers left (Sandra Good being the other). I mean, they didn't let Susan Atkins out, even though she denounced Manson over 30 years ago and has terminal cancer. She's the only notorious Family criminal to never denounce Manson, and she's the one who gets paroled? Kind of surprising.
posted by DecemberBoy at 11:29 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by DecemberBoy at 11:29 AM on August 6, 2009
Also, in most circumstances, vulnerable women who are manipulated by predatory ex-con pimps tend to get our sympathy. The most interesting thing about the Manson women, IMO, is the degree of national hysteria that a couple of girls in their late teens seemed to engender. ... Squeaky's sentence was grossly out of proportion to her crimes.
Oh, I see, they were women, so it's not so bad. I suppose if a man tried to assassinate the president, that would really deserve a life sentence.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:29 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
Oh, I see, they were women, so it's not so bad. I suppose if a man tried to assassinate the president, that would really deserve a life sentence.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:29 AM on August 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
The craziest part about this is I'm looking at these pictures of her as young woman and thinking to myself, I totally would have dated her.
posted by The Straightener at 11:30 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by The Straightener at 11:30 AM on August 6, 2009
Ummm, her sentence was Life, the fact that she didn't manage to kill anybody was merely chance
I think there's a consensus in the literature that she wasn't intending to kill Ford. She had every opportunity to do so, and didn't take it.
she still is a Manson devotee
How old is Manson now? In his eighties, or something? I know Americans love their bogie men, but are you *really* so terrified of his capacity to use his aging hippie girlfriends to wreak havoc that you need to keep all these old ladies locked up?
and she already escaped once.
What, fifteen years ago? That's longer than a standard life tariff here in the UK -- more than you'd get if you actually *did* kill someone, not just waved a gun around.
What about that spells 'good parole risk' to you?
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:31 AM on August 6, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think there's a consensus in the literature that she wasn't intending to kill Ford. She had every opportunity to do so, and didn't take it.
she still is a Manson devotee
How old is Manson now? In his eighties, or something? I know Americans love their bogie men, but are you *really* so terrified of his capacity to use his aging hippie girlfriends to wreak havoc that you need to keep all these old ladies locked up?
and she already escaped once.
What, fifteen years ago? That's longer than a standard life tariff here in the UK -- more than you'd get if you actually *did* kill someone, not just waved a gun around.
What about that spells 'good parole risk' to you?
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:31 AM on August 6, 2009 [5 favorites]
Her intention was to wave the gun around and get arrested.
You know, just because a defendant claims something, doesn't mean it's true.
posted by deanc at 11:33 AM on August 6, 2009
You know, just because a defendant claims something, doesn't mean it's true.
posted by deanc at 11:33 AM on August 6, 2009
Fromme first became eligible for parole in 1985 but didn’t seek release.
In a 2005 letter to the Star-Telegram, she wrote: "No parole hearing has been held for me because I haven’t requested one. I stood up and waved a gun [at Ford] for a reason . . .."
Federal law requires a mandatory parole hearing for inmates who have completed two-thirds of a life sentence, considered 30 years.
What does it take to keep a murderer and a thwarted assain in prision?
It's generally the sense that they will be a danger to the community on release. It's up to them to make the case that they won't.
Parole includes supervision by federal probation officers and can have restrictions on behavior, which if violated, can send someone back to prison post-haste.
posted by dhartung at 11:34 AM on August 6, 2009
In a 2005 letter to the Star-Telegram, she wrote: "No parole hearing has been held for me because I haven’t requested one. I stood up and waved a gun [at Ford] for a reason . . .."
Federal law requires a mandatory parole hearing for inmates who have completed two-thirds of a life sentence, considered 30 years.
What does it take to keep a murderer and a thwarted assain in prision?
It's generally the sense that they will be a danger to the community on release. It's up to them to make the case that they won't.
Parole includes supervision by federal probation officers and can have restrictions on behavior, which if violated, can send someone back to prison post-haste.
posted by dhartung at 11:34 AM on August 6, 2009
Oh, I see, they were women, so it's not so bad. I suppose if a man tried to assassinate the president, that would really deserve a life sentence.
what in the fuck
posted by beefetish at 11:37 AM on August 6, 2009
I think there's a consensus in the literature that she wasn't intending to kill Ford.
A consensus among who's literature?
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
That she'll kill someone else. A 60-year old can fire a gun as easily as a 20-year-old. Now kindly take your glib, half-baked theories elsewhere.
posted by jonmc at 11:38 AM on August 6, 2009
A consensus among who's literature?
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
That she'll kill someone else. A 60-year old can fire a gun as easily as a 20-year-old. Now kindly take your glib, half-baked theories elsewhere.
posted by jonmc at 11:38 AM on August 6, 2009
We should remind ourselves that the action of individuals is inconsequential. It's one of those things, if we really believe it then maybe we can make it come true.
What the fuck are you talking about?
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on August 6, 2009
What the fuck are you talking about?
posted by jonmc at 11:39 AM on August 6, 2009
Peter's right. A lot of people here are acting like Pandora's Box just opened or something. Get real.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:41 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by stinkycheese at 11:41 AM on August 6, 2009
What the fuck are you talking about?
The angst a young adult feels that nothing they do amounts to anything, and that they're never taken seriously.
I guess the other commenter was saying that everything those people did resulted in a mass frenzy. So it's difficult to have a good balance I guess.
posted by nervousfritz at 11:43 AM on August 6, 2009
The angst a young adult feels that nothing they do amounts to anything, and that they're never taken seriously.
I guess the other commenter was saying that everything those people did resulted in a mass frenzy. So it's difficult to have a good balance I guess.
posted by nervousfritz at 11:43 AM on August 6, 2009
A lot of people here are acting like Pandora's Box just opened or something. Get real.
Seriously. She hasn't gotten back to the compound, so there is no way she could have opened the box yet.
Give it some time people; you'll know it when it happens.
posted by quin at 11:57 AM on August 6, 2009
Seriously. She hasn't gotten back to the compound, so there is no way she could have opened the box yet.
Give it some time people; you'll know it when it happens.
posted by quin at 11:57 AM on August 6, 2009
Yeah, those dune buggies make a lot of smoke. You'll see 'em coming.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:57 AM on August 6, 2009
posted by stinkycheese at 11:57 AM on August 6, 2009
All these comments, and still no skeltering of helters? Puzzling.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Her sentence was life, not life without parole.
There was a fascinating interview with John Waters on NPR yesterday, about his friendship with Leslie Van Houten, and his work on getting her paroled.
posted by rtha at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
There was a fascinating interview with John Waters on NPR yesterday, about his friendship with Leslie Van Houten, and his work on getting her paroled.
posted by rtha at 12:01 PM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
AFAIK, prisoners are still generally not allowed access to the internet.
I would have thought so too, but have firsthand knowledge that this is not true, as a friend corresponds with an inmate who is a former classmate. They communicate through Facebook, and a message pops up letting her know that the person is incarcerated when contact is initiated, but I was surprised it was allowed at all.
posted by misha at 12:26 PM on August 6, 2009
I would have thought so too, but have firsthand knowledge that this is not true, as a friend corresponds with an inmate who is a former classmate. They communicate through Facebook, and a message pops up letting her know that the person is incarcerated when contact is initiated, but I was surprised it was allowed at all.
posted by misha at 12:26 PM on August 6, 2009
Why not let Charlie out while were at it? He never killed anyone either. All he did was wave a guitar around.
posted by digsrus at 12:30 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by digsrus at 12:30 PM on August 6, 2009
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
That she's batshit crazy and that she's migh try to hurt someone.
She pointed a gun at the president and pulled the trigger. And while there wasn't a bullet in the chamber, but there were 4 in the magazine. Close enough, even for government work.
She only missed being incarcerated on murder herself because the state didn't have a good enough case on her. Not that she wasn't involved. I wonder if current forensic science would have turned up something different.
If you see how brutal the Manson killings were and how random, you'd understand why these particular crimes and these particular people seem to have an extraordinary hold on Americans.
They cut Sharon Tate's baby out of her. They stabbed the LoBiancos with forks for crissakes!
I'm still freaked out.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:40 PM on August 6, 2009
That she's batshit crazy and that she's migh try to hurt someone.
She pointed a gun at the president and pulled the trigger. And while there wasn't a bullet in the chamber, but there were 4 in the magazine. Close enough, even for government work.
She only missed being incarcerated on murder herself because the state didn't have a good enough case on her. Not that she wasn't involved. I wonder if current forensic science would have turned up something different.
If you see how brutal the Manson killings were and how random, you'd understand why these particular crimes and these particular people seem to have an extraordinary hold on Americans.
They cut Sharon Tate's baby out of her. They stabbed the LoBiancos with forks for crissakes!
I'm still freaked out.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:40 PM on August 6, 2009
The Ford klutzoid thing is amusing enough on old SNL reruns (in part because Chevy Chase looked nothing like Ford, and didn't try to, in the least), but it's not really fair. He fell down in the rain. He was a former collegiate football all-American, from his days at Michigan, a graceful athlete. Calling him klutzy was about as accurate as calling Al Gore a prevaricator or a robot. If Ford were on the scene today, he'd be required to make fun of himself for perceived flaws or media pegging, though, which ... well, I guess means he wouldn't have made it very long in politics.
posted by raysmj at 12:43 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by raysmj at 12:43 PM on August 6, 2009
Fun activity for the day: read this thread and pretend that everybody is talking about a follower of Voldemort.
posted by stresstwig at 12:43 PM on August 6, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by stresstwig at 12:43 PM on August 6, 2009 [9 favorites]
Ruthless Bunny:
If you see how brutal the Manson killings were and how random, you'd understand why these particular crimes and these particular people seem to have an extraordinary hold on Americans.
They cut Sharon Tate's baby out of her. They stabbed the LoBiancos with forks for crissakes!
I'm still freaked out.
From the SF Chronicle (linked in the OP's post):
...Manson followers committed the "Helter Skelter" murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others - killings that happened 40 years ago this weekend. Fromme did not take part in those killings, authorities said.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:54 PM on August 6, 2009
If you see how brutal the Manson killings were and how random, you'd understand why these particular crimes and these particular people seem to have an extraordinary hold on Americans.
They cut Sharon Tate's baby out of her. They stabbed the LoBiancos with forks for crissakes!
I'm still freaked out.
From the SF Chronicle (linked in the OP's post):
...Manson followers committed the "Helter Skelter" murders of actress Sharon Tate and six others - killings that happened 40 years ago this weekend. Fromme did not take part in those killings, authorities said.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:54 PM on August 6, 2009
Great MySpace page. I thought she had a page on BatShitCrazy.com but I guess I was wrong.
posted by snap_dragon at 12:54 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by snap_dragon at 12:54 PM on August 6, 2009
She used to babysit two doors up from my house, when I was a kid. Presumably, she had not met Charlie yet.
posted by Danf at 12:59 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by Danf at 12:59 PM on August 6, 2009
They cut Sharon Tate's baby out of her.
They did a lot of awful things, but this was not one of them.
She only missed being incarcerated on murder herself because the state didn't have a good enough case on her. Not that she wasn't involved. I wonder if current forensic science would have turned up something different.
I'm confused- are you talking about Squeaky being involved in the Tate Murders? How is that possible, when she was not at the house?
posted by oneirodynia at 1:06 PM on August 6, 2009
They did a lot of awful things, but this was not one of them.
She only missed being incarcerated on murder herself because the state didn't have a good enough case on her. Not that she wasn't involved. I wonder if current forensic science would have turned up something different.
I'm confused- are you talking about Squeaky being involved in the Tate Murders? How is that possible, when she was not at the house?
posted by oneirodynia at 1:06 PM on August 6, 2009
Yeah, I'm no fan of Squeaky myself -- I think she's probably batshit, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if she took part in some murders (NOT Tate-LaBianca) that she was never tried for (e.g., Shorty Shea) -- and I slept with a kitchen knife under my pillow the first time I read Helter Skelter, too, but let's at least keep the fact-bending hysteria to a minimum.
posted by scody at 1:20 PM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by scody at 1:20 PM on August 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
John Hinckley actually shot and wounded a president and he gets out (the the mental hospital) on weekend passes and whatnot.
posted by rtha at 1:26 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by rtha at 1:26 PM on August 6, 2009
What you call that bit of skin between the thumb and index finger? That's the bit that the Secret Service Agent put between the hammer and the round.
posted by A189Nut at 1:49 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by A189Nut at 1:49 PM on August 6, 2009
What exactly is it that scares you about letting her out?
There's the obvious -- she's crazy and may hurt someone; or directly or indirectly inspire others to hurt other someones.
Beyond that, it just doesn't jibe with many takes on normative jurisprudence. Why is this person paroled? What's the point being made by this action, when looked at from a wide perspective? The individual parts just don't seem to add up to a reasoned outcome.
It all feels very like the parole board is saying, "We don't want to keep her locked up, because it's annoying to us to keep her locked up. She probably won't hurt us. Let her be someone else's problem."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:54 PM on August 6, 2009
There's the obvious -- she's crazy and may hurt someone; or directly or indirectly inspire others to hurt other someones.
Beyond that, it just doesn't jibe with many takes on normative jurisprudence. Why is this person paroled? What's the point being made by this action, when looked at from a wide perspective? The individual parts just don't seem to add up to a reasoned outcome.
It all feels very like the parole board is saying, "We don't want to keep her locked up, because it's annoying to us to keep her locked up. She probably won't hurt us. Let her be someone else's problem."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:54 PM on August 6, 2009
Ummm, her sentence was Life
They didn't say whose life, though. Maybe they meant Ford's and she should've been released in 2006.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:11 PM on August 6, 2009
Nobody associated with Charles Manson should have been left alive.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:22 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 3:22 PM on August 6, 2009
Really, Inspector.Gadget? Including the former Family members who fled for their lives and testified against him, despite death threats to themselves and their loved ones?
Or how about record producer Terry Melcher, or Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys? They were "associates" of Manson and some of the girls, you know; indeed, it was Manson's connection with Wilson and Melcher that led, in its horrible and tangled way, to the murders at Cielo Drive. Do you think Terry Melcher and Dennis Wilson shouldn't have been "left alive," either?
posted by scody at 3:29 PM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Or how about record producer Terry Melcher, or Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys? They were "associates" of Manson and some of the girls, you know; indeed, it was Manson's connection with Wilson and Melcher that led, in its horrible and tangled way, to the murders at Cielo Drive. Do you think Terry Melcher and Dennis Wilson shouldn't have been "left alive," either?
posted by scody at 3:29 PM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
Does everyone who was alive before 1970 have to die before we can stop pretending the 60's are still relevant and happening? Is it really going to have to be 2060 before we can stop being terrified of the bogeymen of that era?
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:52 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:52 PM on August 6, 2009
Yes, of course.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:14 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:14 PM on August 6, 2009
This YouTube clip from the documentary, Manson, has a pre-assassination interview with Squeaky Fromme.
posted by jonp72 at 5:46 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by jonp72 at 5:46 PM on August 6, 2009
Now that life as you know it is over for many you, can I have your stereos?
posted by shadytrees at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2009
posted by shadytrees at 6:48 PM on August 6, 2009
How old is Manson now? In his eighties, or something? I know Americans love their bogie men, but are you *really* so terrified of his capacity to use his aging hippie girlfriends to wreak havoc that you need to keep all these old ladies locked up?
Well, Oliver North got his own TV show, and all he did was engage in treason. What juicy plums await a real celebrity like Manson?
posted by Ritchie at 9:44 PM on August 6, 2009
Well, Oliver North got his own TV show, and all he did was engage in treason. What juicy plums await a real celebrity like Manson?
posted by Ritchie at 9:44 PM on August 6, 2009
I know Americans love their bogie men, but are you *really* so terrified of his capacity to use his aging hippie girlfriends to wreak havoc that you need to keep all these old ladies locked up?
I don't want to live in a world where, regardless of his age and physical frailty, we look at Charles Manson, shrug our shoulders and go, "Meh."
That's just not human.
Fuck that. Fuck him. I'm very much against the death penalty, but very much in favor of deep, dark holes in the ground that lead to rooms without doors.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:25 PM on August 6, 2009
I don't want to live in a world where, regardless of his age and physical frailty, we look at Charles Manson, shrug our shoulders and go, "Meh."
That's just not human.
Fuck that. Fuck him. I'm very much against the death penalty, but very much in favor of deep, dark holes in the ground that lead to rooms without doors.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:25 PM on August 6, 2009
If you wanna get some kicks, phone DI-1-9026!
Funny how much power the media have in public perception. Manson still has enormous power, much more than he ever could have dreamed of having without their help.
What about a collaboration between Manson and Specter? Two mad c*nts who sound f*cking mad together?
The positive collects negatives so GIMME YOUR MIND, GIMME YOUR MIND
submission's a gift, free your mind
GIVE IT TO YOUR BROTHER... FREE YOUR MIND
posted by asok at 7:33 AM on August 7, 2009
Funny how much power the media have in public perception. Manson still has enormous power, much more than he ever could have dreamed of having without their help.
What about a collaboration between Manson and Specter? Two mad c*nts who sound f*cking mad together?
The positive collects negatives so GIMME YOUR MIND, GIMME YOUR MIND
submission's a gift, free your mind
GIVE IT TO YOUR BROTHER... FREE YOUR MIND
posted by asok at 7:33 AM on August 7, 2009
A189Nut - that's called the "web" and it would hurt very much to get it stuck in the moving parts of a firearm. Considerably less than being shot, mind.
posted by longbaugh at 9:07 AM on August 7, 2009
posted by longbaugh at 9:07 AM on August 7, 2009
/realises that he's totally missed the "how do I shot web?" opportunity...
posted by longbaugh at 9:08 AM on August 7, 2009
posted by longbaugh at 9:08 AM on August 7, 2009
Funny how much power the media have in public perception. Manson still has enormous power, much more than he ever could have dreamed of having without their help.
Well, my intro to him was reading the book written by the prosecuting attorney, Vincent Bugliosi, who was equally interested in promoting himself (and who honestly comes off a bit skeezy, e.g., he corrects the pronunciation of his name as part of the dialogue). I read the book as part of a high school senior lit class, Crime and Punishment. The infamous 1976 TV movie was made from this book. I think Bugliosi's book does more to promote Manson than "the media," but Manson is one of those figures who will attract attention no matter what. If the media ignored him it would have to be deliberate, and then the question would be, why?
posted by krinklyfig at 9:32 AM on August 7, 2009
Well, my intro to him was reading the book written by the prosecuting attorney, Vincent Bugliosi, who was equally interested in promoting himself (and who honestly comes off a bit skeezy, e.g., he corrects the pronunciation of his name as part of the dialogue). I read the book as part of a high school senior lit class, Crime and Punishment. The infamous 1976 TV movie was made from this book. I think Bugliosi's book does more to promote Manson than "the media," but Manson is one of those figures who will attract attention no matter what. If the media ignored him it would have to be deliberate, and then the question would be, why?
posted by krinklyfig at 9:32 AM on August 7, 2009
I don't want to live in a world where, regardless of his age and physical frailty, we look at Charles Manson, shrug our shoulders and go, "Meh."
As far as our criminal justice system, we should probably be more concerned about cost-effective measures which are proven to work regarding recidivism, incarceration and rehab, rather than run the whole system according to people's visceral reactions to sensationalistic crime drama.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:39 AM on August 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
As far as our criminal justice system, we should probably be more concerned about cost-effective measures which are proven to work regarding recidivism, incarceration and rehab, rather than run the whole system according to people's visceral reactions to sensationalistic crime drama.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:39 AM on August 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I'm no fan of Squeaky myself -- I think she's probably batshit, and I wouldn't be surprised one bit if she took part in some murders (NOT Tate-LaBianca) that she was never tried for (e.g., Shorty Shea) -- and I slept with a kitchen knife under my pillow the first time I read Helter Skelter, too, but let's at least keep the fact-bending hysteria to a minimum.
You are 100% right. But I was VERY young when it happened and my parents wouldn't let me read the book or watch the movie (TV movie). I'm just reacting to all the stuff we talked about in the school yard.
That whole "family" will always rent a dark and scary part of my brain, and yes, it's very easy to attribute everything and then some, to them.
Beyond that, I think that Ms. Fromme has demonstrated enough bat-shit crazy in the past few years that keeping her in prison forever still works for me.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:01 PM on August 7, 2009
You are 100% right. But I was VERY young when it happened and my parents wouldn't let me read the book or watch the movie (TV movie). I'm just reacting to all the stuff we talked about in the school yard.
That whole "family" will always rent a dark and scary part of my brain, and yes, it's very easy to attribute everything and then some, to them.
Beyond that, I think that Ms. Fromme has demonstrated enough bat-shit crazy in the past few years that keeping her in prison forever still works for me.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 5:01 PM on August 7, 2009
If nothing else, her parole should be revoked for her misuse of "its" on her MySpace page.
posted by Rykey at 6:19 AM on August 8, 2009
posted by Rykey at 6:19 AM on August 8, 2009
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posted by the aloha at 10:11 AM on August 6, 2009 [1 favorite]