There's a common error in these discussions where people think that since theft is an act harmful to business, that all acts that are harmful to business are in some way theft. That's not a useful way to talk in these cases.True. However, software piracy is illegal. One can argue that it should not be, or that it is the lesser of many evils, or that it's fun enough that it should be legal, or that the people engaging in it are not trying to obtain free products so much as testing their skills against DRM that coincidentally is attached to products...
Socrates: What did Simonides say, and according to you truly say, about justice?
Polemarcus: He said that the repayment of a debt is just, and in saying so he appears to me to be right.
Socrates: I should be sorry to doubt the word of such a wise and inspired man, but his meaning, though probably clear to you, is the reverse of clear to me. For he certainly does not mean . . . that I ought to return a return a deposit of arms or of anything else to one who asks for it when he is not in his right senses. . ."Do you feel that comparing people who use adblockers and watch TV shows on youtube with people who use pirated software is disingenuous?Yes. Keep in mind, though, that the post I replied to also compared game pirates to 'businesses that don't realize they have fonts they don't have licenses for.'
Removing ads from copyright protected content is unauthorized duplication of copyright protected content. See ABC v. Flying J.Unless I'm mistaken, that case involved a business that was publically displaying a television station (at truck stops) and was using a product that removed existing ads and swapped in different ads in realtime.
Also, pretty much most TV shows are legally free to watch online (on Hulu or another site) with consent of the network.I have a 150 gigabyte collection of MP3s.
I would point out that there are loads of people doing just that. Musicians, authors, game devs, you name it. But you'd just call it rhetorical acrobatics, so what's the use?It's easy to say "there is no constitutional right to your business model succeeding." But the corollary is also true: there is no right to force another business or businessperson into a business model you believe would be more successful or somehow 'better.'
Sadly, [copying CDs to mp3s] was probably illegal.Last time I checked, ripping one's legally owned CDs to MP3 format to listen to them on another device was a legally protected act. It's important to distinguish between 'Things the RIAA probably wishes were illegal,' and 'Things that are illegal.'
In the abstract sense, both copyright and patents are quite immoralSo is money. So is property. The only moral system is anarchy. We live with the system we've got, and as someone who makes his living both creating intellectual property and giving it away for free via open source licensing, I think that kind of sophistry is full of sh
What made you think that anybody was advocating forcing people into better business models? That's the job of the market. I'm just pointing out that people who lag behind are screwing themselves. (Oh, and that the law shouldn't be propping up those outdated business models.)Not you, necessarily, but those who say that piracy should be legally acceptable because the content producers' business model is outdated. The whole "Oh, buggy-whip manufacturers!" line -- in response to a clear case of pirates copying and distributing a commercial game -- is nothing but "I get to decide your business model" wrapped in snark.
People who bitch about 'piracy' are like barge operators who hate the fact that it's easy to go downstream. "It should be just as hard either way, dammit! I've invested millions in these mules to pull me upstream!"This is exactly what I'm talking about. If your analogy is accurate, and it's so easy to go downstream, don't use the barge. If the boat is so terribly redundant, and commercial game distribution is so horribly outmoded, and all that business -- don't use the products.
Why not? There seems to be this idea that you can make easy things equivalent to hard things. I'm just pointing out that easy things are easy.Squatting on someone else's land is easier than buying your own. Why make the former as hard as the latter?
And, in the digital realm, you still have your own land. So what's the problem?Summary: "Only I get to use flawed, shitty analogies in this discussion."
As copyright arguments progress, they increasingly become a "she's dressing like me" argument.
Not true, your analogies also suck ass. This, BTW, is not a helpful contribution.When you understand the difference between 'creating' and 'distributing' perhaps you'll be able to spot the portions of the discussion that have content. Until then, I've got hobbies. Thanks for playing.
You are not going to convince people that it is immoral to copy data, because there isn't anything fundamentally immoral about it."Copying Data" is a means to an end, not the thing that people desire. No one sits around watching the file transfer progress bar for entertainment purposes. What people want is possession of the thing that they are copying. And that is something that our legal system currently reserves for the creator of the thing, and those that the creator gives permission to.
C · x = C · y.Zeroing out terms can lead you to illogical conclusions and I think that's what happens due to the moral reductionism of calling piracy "just copying bits" or by assertions that the first copy "costs" millions of dollars but the second one is practically free.
therefore, x = y.
-----------------------------
assume C = 0, x = 1, y = 2.
0 · 1 = 0 · 2.
therefore, 1 = 2.
"Our understanding is that Thomas-Rasset has simply been unwilling to negotiate a settlement; she would rather pay nothing, continually claiming innocence."I can see the value of that decision but at the end of the day she knows the consequences and is responsible for her choices. She received her due process, got a jury of her peers, and they found against her.
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How long until pirates patch this out? Have they already?
posted by graventy at 9:32 AM on September 13, 2009 [1 favorite]