Mr Controversial
August 29, 2010 9:16 AM   Subscribe

Mr Controversial (video, transcript): an in-depth report by Dateline (SBS One, Australia) on Geert Wilders, and the most comprehensive English-language profile of him I have seen to date.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (35 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite

 
I just wish people would stop referring to Park51 as a mosque. It's not a mosque.. and it's not at Ground Zero! Argh!
posted by ReeMonster at 9:26 AM on August 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


A Dutch saying: "The soup is never consumed as hot as it was served." Wilders has already watered down a few of his major policy points (like about the retirement age) when the cabinet negotiations began. Having said this, I'm already ashamed for the as of yet unknown minority group that will be scapegoated by the other political parties in order to gain Wilders's party's support for their cabinet coalition.
posted by LanTao at 9:49 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


...but then thats politics
posted by clavdivs at 9:56 AM on August 29, 2010


Ms. Lamkarat sums it up quite well: No matter of what you do, it is never enough. You just get fed up with that feeling. Because the message that Holland gives immigrants is you have to learn the language, you have to get an education, you have to get a job. Well, I did that, and still you tell me that I don't belong here. Integration is a hot topic among Dutch people, but for PVV and their supporters, there is no level of "integrated enough" for Muslims -- even the ones who were born here, speak Dutch, attend Dutch schools, etc.
posted by neushoorn at 9:59 AM on August 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


Our culture which is based on Christianity, Judaism and Humanism, is better than the retarded Islamic culture and this is tough to say, but it is true. We should defend who we are and get rid of this cultural relativism because at the end of the day it will kill us.

So when do they start building the concentration camps Cultural Purity Re-education Centers?
posted by doctor_negative at 10:10 AM on August 29, 2010


One of my cousins recently changed her "politics" on facebook to read "Geert Wilders". We, uh, don't talk much.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:18 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


This is some of the best coverage to date, to be sure. Thank you!
posted by Doug Stewart at 10:31 AM on August 29, 2010


I just wish people would stop referring to Park51 as a mosque.

I wish more people would realize that the mosque, or project, whatever you want to call it, is a continuation of a mosque at 12 Warren, two blocks away. They have been in this neighborhood for decades. They were closed for 6 months after 9/11, just like everyone else in the fenced-off "Zone One." That building was sold out from under them about a year ago, and they have since been looking all around the local area for a new location. The Coat Factory building sold for less than 20% of what some idiot bought their old building for.

These people are NOT moving into this neighborhood, they have been here longer than almost everyone else down here.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:34 AM on August 29, 2010 [4 favorites]


and it's not at Ground Zero! Argh!

As I just mentioned, while it's not on the actual site of the towers, it is within the several-block-wide surrounding area that was designated as Zone One, which remained a locked-down mess for six months. Zone One is somewhat synonymous with Ground Zero.
posted by StickyCarpet at 10:48 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


I absolutely love how Wilders tries to say that he has nothing against his Islam, almost immediately after calling it "retarded."

Otherwise, this video makes me very, very sad.
posted by lauratheexplorer at 10:53 AM on August 29, 2010


This is not how you fight an ideology. Even if Wilders' policies somehow succeeded at removing Islam from the Netherlands, those people will find a place to live, and probably in Europe too. And now they hate you, and have an obvious and legitimate reason to fight you.

I think there are more Muslims in Europe than there are Wilders supporters. Just a guess.
posted by LogicalDash at 10:55 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


StickyCarpet,

We are in full agreement... but you know as well as I do that most of the morons who are afraid of this situation probably think the building is like, a stone's throw from the memorial when it's like, around the block and you probably couldn't even see the place from the future top of One World Trade Center.. it's just preposterous!
posted by ReeMonster at 11:06 AM on August 29, 2010


Not too long ago, Wilders was seen as little more than a right-wing racist crank.

Now he s a right-wing racist crank with political power. Oh, yay.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:12 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


ReeMonster: Not just their new location, but their old location, was within Zone One. According to FEMA and the Red Cross, anyone both living and working in Zone One, as the Imam did, is considered a surviving victim of the attack.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


You're sounding like the people who are opposed to this, now.. arguing the zoning and all of that. To make people angry, the conservative media started saying GROUND ZERO MOSQUE knowing people would think, wow, it's going to be right there. They didn't give a fuck about "Zone One" this "Zone Two" that.. still when you are standing inside the new world trade center, even from a high floor in many of the buildings, you will not even be able to SEE the "mosquebuildingculturalcenter"
posted by ReeMonster at 11:37 AM on August 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


I think there are more Muslims in Europe than there are Wilders supporters.

A million and a half voted for him. In France alone there are 7 million Muslims, in Germany almost 5, etc...
posted by DreamerFi at 11:48 AM on August 29, 2010


I'm not disagreeing with reemonster, we both support the mosque. I'm just trying to make some clarifications.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:58 AM on August 29, 2010


just like everyone else in the fenced-off "Zone One."

This is strange, but I'm unable to find any reference to the zones on the Internet. In fact this thread seems to be the only reference to a zone system. Did it go by some other name?
posted by geoff. at 12:30 PM on August 29, 2010


Are most Muslims of the opinion that Islam is no better than any other culture?

I ask only for information.
posted by 1adam12 at 12:31 PM on August 29, 2010


The Zone system has to do with insurance, I think.
posted by empath at 12:46 PM on August 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


In France alone there are 7 million Muslims, in Germany almost 5, etc...

In France, 5 and a half million people voted for the even more loathsome Jean-Marie Le Pen in the 2002 presidential elections. In Germany, well, that kind of political opinions are generally unfashionable (and often illegal) to express since some unpleasant events between 1933 and 1945, but that doesn't mean that a lot of people don't feel them.

There's unfortunately, in any society, a significant subset of hateful asshats. Better keep a watchful eye on them...
posted by Skeptic at 12:53 PM on August 29, 2010


"The leaders of the movement are liquidating 'intellectualism' because they themselves possess second- and third-rate intellects, and above all because their historic role does not permit them to pursue a single thought to its conclusion."
posted by Substrata at 1:03 PM on August 29, 2010


Are most Muslims of the opinion that Islam is no better than any other culture?

Fatwa on your head? Is your family or community threatening you?
posted by Brian B. at 1:11 PM on August 29, 2010


The comments thus far seem to deal (1) with the post itself, (2) with the Ground Zero building.
On 1: a good prcentage of Europe these days considers itself very non-religious, decidedly secular and nationalistic, whereas for many Muslims (seems to me), belief in their reglion is paramount.
On 2: the spot where the building is to go was not considered "sacred' while up for sale and only now becomes so (for some people) becaue the buyers plan to build a Muslim center there. If Target bought the property for a huge store, would anyone raise a stink?
posted by Postroad at 1:53 PM on August 29, 2010


The Zone system has to do with insurance, I think.
posted by empath


The Zone One that I know was more like the Zone Two in empath's link (which is from only one week after 9/11.) We were temporarily evicted, and the Zone distinction was important because FEMA would reimburse any rent that had to be paid while our homes could not be occupied, but only in what they called Zone One.
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:11 PM on August 29, 2010


It is strange that the Zones aren't known now. Whenever you went into a FEMA or Red Cross relief center, there would be signs, Zone One this way, all others get in the longer line.
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:15 PM on August 29, 2010


In Germany, well, that kind of political opinions are generally unfashionable (and often illegal) to express since some unpleasant events between 1933 and 1945, but that doesn't mean that a lot of people don't feel them.

Well, just a data point but only tomorrow a book will come out by Thilo Sarrazin (German SPD politician, now on the board of Bundesbank) titled Deutschland schafft sich ab ("Germany is abolishing itself", if memory of high school German serves), in which he presents harsh criticisms of German immigration policies.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 2:24 PM on August 29, 2010


To paraphrase Clarence Darrow: I don't wish Wilders dead, but I would read his obituary with pleasure.
posted by atrazine at 3:56 PM on August 29, 2010


Are most Muslims of the opinion that Islam is no better than any other culture?
I ask only for information.


Really? Cause it really, really seems like you ask to make a stupid point - with a rhetorical question no one is in a position to answer. I apologise if I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but the world's Muslim population is over 1.5 billion, so knowing what "they" think about anything except which religion they practice is pretty much impossible.

Projecting illusive homogeneity is what makes Wilders so popular in the first place. I have no doubt I have more in common with the vast majority of muslims than I do some of my anglo brethren in either Holland or here in Australia.
posted by smoke at 5:02 PM on August 29, 2010 [4 favorites]


Really? Cause it really, really seems like you ask to make a stupid point - with a rhetorical question no one is in a position to answer. I apologise if I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt here, but the world's Muslim population is over 1.5 billion, so knowing what "they" think about anything except which religion they practice is pretty much impossible.

That is not true at all. Surveys combined with proper stastistical analysis are feasible and useful for answering these kinds of things.
posted by Anything at 7:50 PM on August 29, 2010


stastistical
posted by Anything at 7:52 PM on August 29, 2010


Substrata: "The leaders of the movement are liquidating 'intellectualism' because they themselves possess second- and third-rate intellects..."

Shit, I just read this quote earlier tonight re: the difference between socialism and nazism... did you post it there perchance?
posted by symbioid at 9:24 PM on August 29, 2010


nope
posted by Substrata at 11:44 PM on August 29, 2010


One of my cousins recently changed her "politics" on facebook to read "Geert Wilders". We, uh, don't talk much.
Yeah, I stopped talking to my relatives once they got facebook accounts
posted by the noob at 5:03 AM on August 30, 2010


Good News for the Insane, if the report is so “comprehensive” why didn’t their streeters include any Wilders supporters? By definition they exist; they voted for his party.
posted by joeclark at 10:53 AM on August 30, 2010


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