New York's "Ring of Steel"

September 25, 2010 2:51 PM

They call it the "Ring of Steel" The NYPD is tightening surveillance in New York's subways by installing a new surveillence system modeled after London's so called "Ring Of Steel" . The $200 million system, paid for with federal funds and mismanaged by the MTA and Lockheed Martin, is part of what will one day be a 3,000-camera network of "public and private-sector cameras." London, feeling it's title as the most surveilled city in the world threatened, is now considering using unmanned drones for covert aerial surveillance, security, or emergency operations.
posted by SpaceJazz (47 comments total)

On the one hand, this will make the show "24" more plausible. On the other hand, why do they always hang up their phones without saying "bye"?
posted by found missing at 2:56 PM on September 25, 2010 [5 favorites]

Can we get a do-over on the 21st century? Bin Laden really fucked us with that first roll.
posted by felix betachat at 2:58 PM on September 25, 2010 [17 favorites]

I'm supposed to be outraged, right?

/ I don't want to do this wrong...
posted by HuronBob at 2:58 PM on September 25, 2010

Unless these are going to be 1080p cameras that fire electrified nets, I can't see how it is going to be any better than having a cop down there.

"If we're looking for a person in a red jacket hoody, XL white t-shirt, large blue jeans and boots we can call up all the red jackets hoodies, XL white t-shirts, large blue jeans and boots filmed in the last 30 days"

Oh, yeah, this is going to work splendidly. How about throwing $200 mil at some of this bullshit instead?
posted by griphus at 2:59 PM on September 25, 2010 [3 favorites]

Here's some sample footage from Grand Central and on board a subway train.
posted by Frank Grimes at 3:02 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

It is well known that since this system was installed, no terrorists have attacked London.
posted by atrazine at 3:02 PM on September 25, 2010 [7 favorites]

And wouldn't you know, the only time they malfunctioned was that time the cops shot an innocent person seven times in the head.

I'm sure London's new drones will be benign.
posted by dirigibleman at 3:05 PM on September 25, 2010 [17 favorites]

sounds like a great idea guys? cant they just pay $5 million for a bunch of fake cameras and a PR campaign to tell everyone they are watching? or pay out of work bankers to stage fake crime and arrests for the NY Post?
posted by lslelel at 3:09 PM on September 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

Unless these are going to be 1080p cameras that fire electrified nets, I can't see how it is going to be any better than having a cop down there.

It's cheaper.

To meet environmental and economic pressures for increased use of public transport, metro operators need to develop efficient management systems for their networks. The ADVISOR system addresses these issues by exploring advances in computer vision technologies and open network architectures to demonstrate effective use of CCTV for computer-assisted automatic incident detection, content based annotation of video recordings, behaviour pattern analysis of crowds and individuals, and ergonomic human computer interfaces.

Google "Surveillance Video Content Analysis" for more. Automated analysis of video content is a popular research subject.
posted by delmoi at 3:11 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

1080p? Most likely they would be 16 megapixel or the latest 32 megapixel cameras, possibly even doing directional audio and 3D as well as low light. Start putting in things like plate capture systems and facial recognition, suddenly it gets creepy. Plus you put a camera up, nothing says you can't also include some other sensors as well to match a persons identity with a cell phone in their pocket.
posted by humanfont at 3:17 PM on September 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

so what they're saying is i can still masturbate in all the stations except Penn, GCT, and 42nd Times Square? ok.
posted by TrialByMedia at 3:17 PM on September 25, 2010 [8 favorites]

I really don't mind the cameras, but it does bring to mind the fictitious story about American astronauts with million-dollar pens that work in zero gravity, while Soviet astronauts used pencils.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:24 PM on September 25, 2010 [5 favorites]

I don't think Ridley Scott really had Blade Runner in mind as a blueprint.
posted by Malor at 3:36 PM on September 25, 2010 [5 favorites]

Meanwhile, the PA systems in most of the subways and many of the trains barely work when they work at all, and- as we saw a few years ago- the whole system can be brought to its knees by a heavier-than-average rainstorm.

Increasing surveillance doesn't necessarily improve safety; it improves surveillance..
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 3:42 PM on September 25, 2010 [6 favorites]

Ya'll need to accept that the surveillance is here and will only get worse. It's here because many citizens actually want it and think it does some good.

I'll be over in the corner, weeping and looking at plans for a mountain getaway.
posted by nomadicink at 3:58 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

yes, we have been aware of your plans
posted by found missing at 4:04 PM on September 25, 2010 [13 favorites]

Oh, yeah, this is going to work splendidly. How about throwing $200 mil at some of this bullshit instead?

The US Attorney is looking into it at least.
posted by mlis at 4:11 PM on September 25, 2010

Surveillance good. Bad? No cops when you need them. If they do arrest a perp, he is cut loose by the courts. Result: stuff installed good for stock holders of companies selling the stuff to the stimulous enriced city.
posted by Postroad at 4:11 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

found missing> On the one hand, this will make the show "24" more plausible. On the other hand, why do they always hang up their phones without saying "bye"?

I know! Even though I tell myself that it's an action show, and Kiefer is on a deadline, it bugs the living crap out of me.

And the way people brush their teeth in movies and TV! You're supposed to brush away from the gumline, or in small circles at the gumline. Instead, they always go back and forth. I don't know how dentists can stand to watch it.

I'm not being sarcastic, by the way -- that sort of thing really is like nails on a chalkboard.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 4:16 PM on September 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

No way any of this can be abused. No siree.
posted by cmgonzalez at 4:19 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

"At the downtown surveillance bunker near Wall Street, footage is discarded after 30 days unless in the event of an investigation"

...in which case it shall be immediately discarded.
posted by Xoebe at 4:41 PM on September 25, 2010 [9 favorites]

Malor: "I don't think Ridley Scott really had Blade Runner in mind as a blueprint"

Move on. Move on. Move on. Move ...
posted by bwg at 5:08 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

It is well known that since this system was installed, no terrorists have attacked London.

Lies. It was surely the terrorist preventing rock that I put outside of Piccadilly Station. How do I bill the City of London for the services rendered?
posted by Talez at 5:19 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh, yeah, this is going to work splendidly. How about throwing $200 mil at some of this bullshit instead?

Also featured in Act 2 of this episode of This American Life. It's both fascinating and infuriating.
posted by niles at 5:25 PM on September 25, 2010

Welcome to the technofascist future!

As a computer programmer, I would like to thank all the other computer programmers and engineers who have made this possible. Thanks, assholes.
posted by beerbajay at 5:52 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

Does anyone have that short from a British show where a couple guys were hanging around a camera near a bridge or something, pointing at and taking pictures of it for ~15-20 minutes in normal clothes with no police response, then just standing near it wearing a dishdasha and headscarf and getting a near-immediate police response?
posted by Evilspork at 6:03 PM on September 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

A man is real, not made of steel.
posted by unknowncommand at 6:05 PM on September 25, 2010

Automated analysis of video content is a popular research subject.

I know a guy who's worked out a system for counting and estimating the size of fish using two cameras with fish-eye lenses to create a 3-D, almost hemispherical record. No doubt his work will be part of what is drawn on for future surveillance systems.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 6:44 PM on September 25, 2010

Also featured in Act 2 of this episode of This American Life. It's both fascinating and infuriating.

Is there already a FPP about this?
posted by a robot made out of meat at 6:45 PM on September 25, 2010

haha, i knew somebody would reference half life 2 after seeing those unmanned drones. I thought of that too.
posted by SpaceJazz at 6:54 PM on September 25, 2010

the most surveilled city in the world

Pretty sure London doesn't come close to Las Vegas. London might have more cameras, but Vegas has people actually monitoring them.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:08 PM on September 25, 2010

Just how many police officers would $200 million pay the salaries of for the next 20 years?
posted by Zalzidrax at 7:34 PM on September 25, 2010

Dublin, Ireland is pretty well surveilled indoors. This is pretty disconcering. You get used to it I guess. I didn't.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 7:34 PM on September 25, 2010

Zalzidrax: Between 20 and 50, it sounds like.
posted by hattifattener at 8:04 PM on September 25, 2010

Is there already a FPP about this?

I missed it the first time around, but it turns out there is.
posted by niles at 8:10 PM on September 25, 2010

It is well known that since this system was installed, no terrorists have attacked London.

It has cut down on the incidence of repeat suicide bombing. Recidivism is a major problem with this type of terrorism.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:14 PM on September 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

SPYBAT
posted by clavdivs at 8:26 PM on September 25, 2010

Does anyone have that short from a British show where a couple guys were hanging around a camera near a bridge or something, pointing at and taking pictures of it for ~15-20 minutes in normal clothes with no police response, then just standing near it wearing a dishdasha and headscarf and getting a near-immediate police response?

Australian. Chasers' War on Everything.
posted by the cydonian at 8:33 PM on September 25, 2010 [3 favorites]

Can we get a do-over on the 21st century? Bin Laden really fucked us with that first roll.

London's (actually more precisely, the City of London's -- that is, we're only talking here specifically about the small financial district ("The Square Mile") which is governed in a different way from London (the City is run by the City of London Corporation which has the office of the Lord Mayor with early medieval origins; London as a whole has the office of the Mayor which only started in 1999) and is much much much smaller than London as a whole) Ring of Steel was originally set up as a response to the IRA terrorist threat to the City of London in the early 1990s. It's been expanded and developed further even though the Irish terrorist threat has diminished (but may be returning today) partly because of the 9/11 and 7/7 Islamist terror attacks but also because high-end City businesses like the extra security and City urban planners like the improved traffic flow side-benefits.

As a kid, I remember doing a project on the Ring of Steel for high school geography class shortly after it was first installed - doing traffic counts (woohoo!!) and showing how traffic density had changed in different areas (what larks!!!) because of the new security checkpoints and barriers.
posted by Bwithh at 8:52 PM on September 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

Oh and of course if you film the police they'll confiscate your camera and dump it a bowl of water. Or just make it illegal to record them
posted by delmoi at 12:36 AM on September 26, 2010

Install Qik on your phone. They can do whatever they want to it, the pictures are in the cloud.
posted by Jimmy Havok at 1:41 AM on September 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

What I find more distasteful is the (continued, increased, ballooning) use of private corporations to effect surveillance on the masses. I trust corporations even less than I trust the motives (to say nothing of the brains) of politicians who think surveillance makes us safer.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 6:42 AM on September 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

@Emperor S K, I have been in sooo many peoples faces about this very side of the whole surveillance issue for years! People too often blame government for corporate actions.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 1:46 PM on September 26, 2010

I want an E-M scrambler like the Punisher 2099 had.
posted by Eideteker at 3:02 PM on September 26, 2010

Australian. Chasers' War on Everything

That's exactly the one I was thinking of, thanks!
posted by Evilspork at 5:01 PM on September 26, 2010

If the NYPD is legitimately concerned about the safety of their customers, they'll install cell phone service in all of their stations (and preferably trains as well) so that people can call in emergencies, have working intercoms on all trains, and make sure that there's an AED in every station and the cab of each train.

Oh, and hire more cops. Nothing beats an extra set of (human) eyes. Cameras are only good for looking at things after they've happened.
posted by schmod at 5:27 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Please, no phones on trains. You can take away my unlimited ride metrocard, but no phones on trains.
posted by Eideteker at 5:56 PM on September 26, 2010 [1 favorite]