Touched by an Angel
October 28, 2010 11:06 AM Subscribe
"We appreciate all the support that fans have shown for 'Caprica' and are very proud of the producers, cast, writers and the rest of the amazing team that has been committed to this fine series. Unfortunately, despite its obvious quality, 'Caprica' has not been able to build the audience necessary to justify a second season." - The Battlestar Galactica prequel series Caprica has been cancelled, and it's final episodes consigned to 2011. As ever there is debate as to what went wrong, though it looks like one complaint, the shows relative lack of action, will be addressed by the next spin-off: Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome, set during the war years of a young William Adama.
"other names pitched were: 'Battlestar Galactica: Explosions & Shrieking', 'Battlestar Galactica: The Real Housewives of Galactica Portside' and 'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fucking'"
posted by boo_radley at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2010 [32 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 11:12 AM on October 28, 2010 [32 favorites]
Well there was no man-eating aardvark/cuttlefish/hippopotamus/seagull, was there? It was doomed from the outset. Have Syfy learned nothing?
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2010
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2010
God modern media titles
WoeWorld, Spyker's Seed: The New Moon, A Regland Burns & The Party of Nine book.
posted by The Whelk at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2010
WoeWorld, Spyker's Seed: The New Moon, A Regland Burns & The Party of Nine book.
posted by The Whelk at 11:13 AM on October 28, 2010
Battlestar Galactica:We're dropping all this emotion and thoughtful shit for robots and explosions
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
posted by GuyZero at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Battlestar Galactica:We're dropping all this emotion and thoughtful shit for robots and explosions
Sadly I fear even that will not be enough to bring me back into the fold post-finale.
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Sadly I fear even that will not be enough to bring me back into the fold post-finale.
posted by Artw at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
The Whelk: "WoeWorld, Spyker's Seed: The New Moon, A Regland Burns & The Party of Nine book."
(A Sookie Stackhouse series) (Pre-Order) (Digital Edition Extras)
Shopping for books with a Nook is like a TINY VERSION OF HELL.
posted by boo_radley at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010
(A Sookie Stackhouse series) (Pre-Order) (Digital Edition Extras)
Shopping for books with a Nook is like a TINY VERSION OF HELL.
posted by boo_radley at 11:16 AM on October 28, 2010
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
if it helps, Doctor Space Begbie in Stargate: Universe is now seeing imaginary people and so is even more of a crap Baltar rip-off.
posted by Artw at 11:17 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
if it helps, Doctor Space Begbie in Stargate: Universe is now seeing imaginary people and so is even more of a crap Baltar rip-off.
posted by Artw at 11:17 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Battlestar Galactica: Property Virgins
Battlestar Galactica: Algae Cake Challenge
posted by boo_radley at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Battlestar Galactica: Algae Cake Challenge
posted by boo_radley at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
We're moving towards the sexy violent TV singularity of Spartacalactica: Sexy Blood and Chromey Chrome and I approve.
posted by Shepherd at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 11:18 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
Dammit. I was going to watch the series over my summer break (final Hons exam today, yay!!) and now I'm conflicted. Is it worth watching? Does it offer any interesting insights into the BSG universe? Good writing will probably be the thing that swings me either way.
posted by New England Cultist at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010
posted by New England Cultist at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010
"other names pitched were: 'Battlestar Galactica: Explosions & Shrieking', 'Battlestar Galactica: The Real Housewives of Galactica Portside' and 'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fucking'"
Except that with the possible exception of the The Real Housewives one, I'd be more tempted to turn in to the others more than Blood and Chrome, particularly F&F.
(And really, to be honest, if the Real Housewives one was done well...I don't watch much reality TV, but a clever sci-fi-themed/reality TV parody, I would be first in line in a "people with tents outside the new Apple store" sorta way)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010
Except that with the possible exception of the The Real Housewives one, I'd be more tempted to turn in to the others more than Blood and Chrome, particularly F&F.
(And really, to be honest, if the Real Housewives one was done well...I don't watch much reality TV, but a clever sci-fi-themed/reality TV parody, I would be first in line in a "people with tents outside the new Apple store" sorta way)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010
'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fucking'
It would be 'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fracking'. If you are going to belittle the series at least use the correct words.
posted by Brent Parker at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
It would be 'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fracking'. If you are going to belittle the series at least use the correct words.
posted by Brent Parker at 11:20 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
Battlestar Galactica: Farmville
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Battlestar Galactica: Farmville
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:23 AM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Shopping for books with a Nook is like a TINY VERSION OF HELL.
But just think about how we would have felt about it if someone had come to us 20 year ago.
Future Man from 2010: "In the future, we will give you hell."
Consumer from 1990: [long concerned pause]
Future Man from 2010: "But it will be handheld."
Consumer from 1990: "Well, then..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:24 AM on October 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
But just think about how we would have felt about it if someone had come to us 20 year ago.
Future Man from 2010: "In the future, we will give you hell."
Consumer from 1990: [long concerned pause]
Future Man from 2010: "But it will be handheld."
Consumer from 1990: "Well, then..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:24 AM on October 28, 2010 [11 favorites]
Brent Parker: "It would be 'Battlestar Galactica: Fighting & Fracking'. If you are going to belittle the series at least use the correct words."
That's why the "Fighting & Fucking" title was rejected.
posted by boo_radley at 11:25 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
That's why the "Fighting & Fucking" title was rejected.
posted by boo_radley at 11:25 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
What went wrong?
How about the thrilling premise of a civilization on the run to save their species from extinction, and having to cobble together ad hoc a new functioning society from the bits and pieces that somehow survived?
Take that away and what was left?
posted by yeti at 11:27 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
How about the thrilling premise of a civilization on the run to save their species from extinction, and having to cobble together ad hoc a new functioning society from the bits and pieces that somehow survived?
Take that away and what was left?
posted by yeti at 11:27 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
well, I never watched the spinoff because the final season (half-season?) of Galatica was major suckage with the whos-real-or-a-angel, and the heavy-handedness of the "message" pissed me off to no end.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Old'n'Busted at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Take that away and what was left?
"Help! I'm trapped in a VR prison!"
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Help! I'm trapped in a VR prison!"
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I realize that SyFy needs more room for Pro Wrestling and ghost hunting shows but I'm pretty annoyed that they won't even bother finishing the run of this season. It wasn't the best show ever but it was still better than the last season of BSG and it's not like there's a whole lot of science fiction to watch on TV these days.
posted by octothorpe at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
This doesn't surprise me. There were simply too many story lines, too much navel-gazing, too much angst, too much smoking. It's really a textbook case of contemporary tv writers inability to construct a tight, focused story arc. And without every character being so deeply, achingly dysfunctional to where I really didn't give a crap about any of them.
I really wanted to like Caprica. I kept watching it, waiting for it to latch onto a viable story line, but it just kept flailing about, as if the writers were taking the "throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks" method.
Now what am I gonna do without my weekly Alessandra Torresani fix???
posted by Thorzdad at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
I really wanted to like Caprica. I kept watching it, waiting for it to latch onto a viable story line, but it just kept flailing about, as if the writers were taking the "throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks" method.
Now what am I gonna do without my weekly Alessandra Torresani fix???
posted by Thorzdad at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [8 favorites]
Moore's initial pitch for the show was, "It's a sci-fi version of 'Dallas,'" and while the finished product moved quite a bit off of that, there were still plenty of elements - marital discord, corporate intrigue, teen angst/rebellion - that may not have played well to viewers who don't like so much overlap between their genres. (The mix also included a whole lot of theology, which is essential to the origin of the "BSG" universe but, based on reaction to the "BSG" finale, not everyone's favorite subject.)
They're focusing on the sci-fi/soap-opera mismatch here, but isn't the thing in parentheses the real problem? Galactica, by the end, alienated its own audience so thoroughly by passing off glaring nonsense and retcon under the name of "theology," using vague handwaving blither about God(s) as a cover for the writers' inability to construct a coherent plot, that any show following up on precisely that aspect of Galactica's world, while passing on the action, was more or less guaranteed to fail from the start. And this is to say nothing of the actual Caprica they turned in, little more than a clunky derivative of Blade Runner, in a world even less alien than that film's future Los Angeles rather than one that used the alienness of the worlds of the Twelve Colonies to any good effect.
posted by RogerB at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
They're focusing on the sci-fi/soap-opera mismatch here, but isn't the thing in parentheses the real problem? Galactica, by the end, alienated its own audience so thoroughly by passing off glaring nonsense and retcon under the name of "theology," using vague handwaving blither about God(s) as a cover for the writers' inability to construct a coherent plot, that any show following up on precisely that aspect of Galactica's world, while passing on the action, was more or less guaranteed to fail from the start. And this is to say nothing of the actual Caprica they turned in, little more than a clunky derivative of Blade Runner, in a world even less alien than that film's future Los Angeles rather than one that used the alienness of the worlds of the Twelve Colonies to any good effect.
posted by RogerB at 11:28 AM on October 28, 2010 [12 favorites]
I tried to like Caprica, but I just couldn't.
posted by rtha at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by rtha at 11:29 AM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
it's been up and down, but overall i've liked caprica and where it started going. but i'm no longer committing to any serial form of television until networks start guaranteeing minimal episode runs and storyline resolution. i'd rather see them go more toward uk-style shorter, higher-quality series. i think television is in a good place in terms of quality of work generally, and i've been patient with and supportive of bold and unique efforts; but the business aspect too often ruins it--the networks always ask for a commitment from the viewer that they are not willing to honor themselves. i'd rather wait until a series is finished and released as a set to engage with it at this point.
i don't get the purpose in pulling the remaining episodes until early next year--unless they are going to rework them toward a conclusion; but i'm kinda doubting they'll make the effort.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:30 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
i don't get the purpose in pulling the remaining episodes until early next year--unless they are going to rework them toward a conclusion; but i'm kinda doubting they'll make the effort.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:30 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
And so the Trekification of another intellectual property sets in, ossifying the Last Good Idea the IP produced... tsk.
posted by Edison Carter at 11:33 AM on October 28, 2010
posted by Edison Carter at 11:33 AM on October 28, 2010
I actually started to like Caprica a bit when it focused on the cute dead girl being alive in the first Cylon and her father knowing that and trying to force her to reveal herself via increasingly brutal methods of mental torture.
Wait, what?
posted by nomadicink at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wait, what?
posted by nomadicink at 11:41 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
We're all aware Caprica was a steaming turd, yes? No? :(
posted by basicchannel at 11:44 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by basicchannel at 11:44 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Another dumb spinoff? Come on.
Caprica's failure was actually for the same reason that Blood&Chrome will fail. They are prequels. A lot of people simply don't like prequels. Hell, given how pointless the events of BSG have rendered any of the events in these prequels I don't see why I would possibly care.
posted by Justinian at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Caprica's failure was actually for the same reason that Blood&Chrome will fail. They are prequels. A lot of people simply don't like prequels. Hell, given how pointless the events of BSG have rendered any of the events in these prequels I don't see why I would possibly care.
posted by Justinian at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
From what I saw it was badly affected by one of the worst traits of bad BSG episodes - the use of slow and angsty as an equivalent to deep and well characterized.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I got to episode four and I felt like I needed an award and an apology.
I loved everything about BSG except for "The Plan." I even liked it when it meandered and when it raised it's middle finger to the fans and hadthem be dead the whole time some fucked up metaphysical ending where they were Angels the whole time.
I could watch Eric Stoltz sleep and I love Esai Morales.
And still they couldn't keep me. I needed more sex, more betrayal, greater struggle, and at least one person I could relate to or give a shit about.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I loved everything about BSG except for "The Plan." I even liked it when it meandered and when it raised it's middle finger to the fans and had
I could watch Eric Stoltz sleep and I love Esai Morales.
And still they couldn't keep me. I needed more sex, more betrayal, greater struggle, and at least one person I could relate to or give a shit about.
posted by cjorgensen at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can't wait for Battlestar Galactica: Cake or Death.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:49 AM on October 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
BSG was a prequel - to the entire history of the human race.
posted by Artw at 11:50 AM on October 28, 2010
posted by Artw at 11:50 AM on October 28, 2010
The thing about the reimagined BSG is that it got bad somewhere midway in season 2, dragged itself back out of the mud with the stranded colonists controlled by the Cylons arc and then completely fell apart so that a lot of people had already stopped watching when the gruesome finale appeared on TV.
To create even 1 spinoff was a bad idea and it is hardly surprising that no one is interested in watching the umpteenth. Go back to doing some quality 33 - was a scaringly well executed start. Do it again!
posted by sandrach at 11:51 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
To create even 1 spinoff was a bad idea and it is hardly surprising that no one is interested in watching the umpteenth. Go back to doing some quality 33 - was a scaringly well executed start. Do it again!
posted by sandrach at 11:51 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
still better than the last season of BSG
Everybody limbo!
posted by ook at 11:52 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Everybody limbo!
posted by ook at 11:52 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Nice post title, hee.
Oh BSG, you had such promise, such promise. But you never really figured out what to do with the basic premise, how to carry to a logical conclusion.
Redo Season 3 and 4. That's all you need to do, just redo that, don't give Ron Moore final say on the finale and we'll call it even.
posted by nomadicink at 11:55 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh BSG, you had such promise, such promise. But you never really figured out what to do with the basic premise, how to carry to a logical conclusion.
Redo Season 3 and 4. That's all you need to do, just redo that, don't give Ron Moore final say on the finale and we'll call it even.
posted by nomadicink at 11:55 AM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Here's a really clever idea: When you're investing a lot of effort in something (and there was a lot of good stuff put into Caprica) you might want to decide on a time of week to show the episodes, and show them at that time of week, one per week, every week, starting with the pilot, without skipping any weeks or moving it around, until you have shown an entire season. That makes more sense than making your three remaining loyal viewers watch it on Hulu because they missed the restart or the new time.
Then you might want to make sure that each episode manages to bring something interesting to a conclusion and that if you are maintaining any background long-term arcs that they all get tied up by the end of the season. This is a matter of writing, and writing is cheap enough that you should be able to plan this out for the entire season before you spend all the money on CGI animations, set construction, and buying circa 1950 automobiles.
posted by localroger at 11:57 AM on October 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
Then you might want to make sure that each episode manages to bring something interesting to a conclusion and that if you are maintaining any background long-term arcs that they all get tied up by the end of the season. This is a matter of writing, and writing is cheap enough that you should be able to plan this out for the entire season before you spend all the money on CGI animations, set construction, and buying circa 1950 automobiles.
posted by localroger at 11:57 AM on October 28, 2010 [10 favorites]
The only shows I watched last year were Caprica and Justified. I would not have predicted the latter's demise, given its stellar writing and acting. The former, on the other hand.... what a convoluted mess.
posted by Jubal Kessler at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Jubal Kessler at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2010
I actually liked this show. I like the lack of stupid action, which turns me off to most film/tv science fiction.
I enjoyed the ideas, even if they weren't moving forward as quickly as I'd have liked.
posted by cccorlew at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed the ideas, even if they weren't moving forward as quickly as I'd have liked.
posted by cccorlew at 12:02 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
And now I can't help but wonder why Syfy killed Caprica yet allows that painfully horrid Santuary to live. Hell, even the CG on that show stinks. I can't believe it gets better ratings than Caprica did. Lower cost buys greater leeway in audience numbers?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Thorzdad at 12:03 PM on October 28, 2010
Battlestar Galactica: The "Battlestar Galactica" Part Is To Remind the Uninformed and the Stupid What Franchise To Which This Belongs; the Other Part Is My Own Personal Take on the Concept; & the Colon Is in the Middle as a Punctuative Substitution for a Conjunction, as Well as to Lend a Certain Air of Grad School Sophistication to the Lot
posted by adipocere at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by adipocere at 12:05 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Caprica had some promise when it seemed like it was focusing on the creation story of the Cylons. I managed through most of Season 1 (well, I guess technically it was the first half of Season 1). But as it quickly sunk into the melodrama and politics of Greystone Industries and Soldiers of the One, I failed to find any reason I was supposed to care about any of it.
posted by dry white toast at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by dry white toast at 12:16 PM on October 28, 2010
I liked to think of it as, Battlestar Galactica:At Least We Haven't Hired The Cast of Farscape To Bring in Lame King Arthur Plotlines, So Please Cut Us a Frakking Break Before Siffy Becomes the Pro Wrestling and Cheesiness Channel, OK?
Now what am I supposed to do? Watch all of Buffy and Angel again while they come up with something else and/or Eureka's hiatus ends? Sigh.
posted by SMPA at 12:19 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now what am I supposed to do? Watch all of Buffy and Angel again while they come up with something else and/or Eureka's hiatus ends? Sigh.
posted by SMPA at 12:19 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
And so the Trekification of another intellectual property sets in, ossifying the Last Good Idea the IP produced... tsk.
Fair point, but with Trek they at least let the body getmoldy well seasoned before they started harvesting it.
And I would argue that BSG was a good idea that was verging on legendary if they had just cut out about a third of the mumbo-jumbo stuff and not jerked the seasons in half.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 12:22 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Fair point, but with Trek they at least let the body get
And I would argue that BSG was a good idea that was verging on legendary if they had just cut out about a third of the mumbo-jumbo stuff and not jerked the seasons in half.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 12:22 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Caprica: The main female characters dress in frilly dresses and will eventually turn into robots.
Battlestar: The main characters are female and wear combat camos and smoke cigars and stomp robot butt.
Shouldn't the producers have at least had a coin toss in the writer's room? Where were all the adults when this happened?
posted by zaelic at 12:26 PM on October 28, 2010
Battlestar: The main characters are female and wear combat camos and smoke cigars and stomp robot butt.
Shouldn't the producers have at least had a coin toss in the writer's room? Where were all the adults when this happened?
posted by zaelic at 12:26 PM on October 28, 2010
Man, was it ever not the theology that put me off the BSG finale.
posted by Zozo at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Zozo at 12:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sigh. I loved St Barnabas the Unseemly though. So much for my favourite nun ever, I'll have to rely on her in Rome or whatever it was now.
posted by shinybaum at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by shinybaum at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2010
I'm going to miss Serge. And Sam Adama. I will not miss actually watching the show; it was turning into a chore. I think I cared more about blood getting on the Greystone family's couch than any of the characters.
So are we ever going to find out what the Cylons' plan is/was?
posted by giraffe at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2010
So are we ever going to find out what the Cylons' plan is/was?
posted by giraffe at 12:28 PM on October 28, 2010
After reading two threads on two different boards full of BSG finale hate, I feel compelled to go on record. I LIKED the finale and the entire 4th season. The show wrapped up very satisfactorily for me. I liked both the Starbuck story arc and the final 5 story arc. The show was always about the intersection of myth, religion; and science, and the fact that they all intersected in the final episode was neither surprising nor upsetting for me.
To each their own, but I still hold a great deal of respect for Galactica. Except for Season 3. That should have been jettisoned out an airlock.
posted by fremen at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
To each their own, but I still hold a great deal of respect for Galactica. Except for Season 3. That should have been jettisoned out an airlock.
posted by fremen at 12:30 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
So are we ever going to find out what the Cylons' plan is/was?
Given the quality fo previous plans...
1) Do stuff
2) ??????
3) Directly contradict 1.
posted by Artw at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Given the quality fo previous plans...
1) Do stuff
2) ??????
3) Directly contradict 1.
posted by Artw at 12:31 PM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
4) Angels!
Also Battlestar Galactica: The Bloodening.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:34 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also Battlestar Galactica: The Bloodening.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:34 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
So are we ever going to find out what the Cylons' plan is/was?
Make money for Syfy.
posted by nomadicink at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Make money for Syfy.
posted by nomadicink at 12:37 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
Given the scenario, many of the BSG protagonists would be mere babies.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:43 PM on October 28, 2010
Given the scenario, many of the BSG protagonists would be mere babies.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:43 PM on October 28, 2010
Given the scenario, many of the BSG protagonists would be mere babies.
First off, I could totally see BSG Babies being a Saturday morning hit.
Second off, I too liked the finale of BSG. I know that the story got a little loosey goosey during season 3, but every time I hear about how everybody hated the ending, I wonder what kind of ending they had in mind that would be satisfying. I would be happy to hear some ideas for alternate endings that would have been better.
posted by nushustu at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2010
First off, I could totally see BSG Babies being a Saturday morning hit.
Second off, I too liked the finale of BSG. I know that the story got a little loosey goosey during season 3, but every time I hear about how everybody hated the ending, I wonder what kind of ending they had in mind that would be satisfying. I would be happy to hear some ideas for alternate endings that would have been better.
posted by nushustu at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2010
Skipping past any scene with Amanda Greystone in it was a way of losslessly turning it into a half-hour show with a slightly less glacial plot. Until this last episode the only thing she did was embrace a little too readily and enthusiastically the accusation that her daughter was (knowingly) a terrorist bomber. After that, her scenes were just wearing a suffering expression and having conversations of no consequence because nobody in the show ever told her anything, for good reason. But it looks like in this last episode she actually starts doing something not-stupid. Maybe there was hope for the show.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:49 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I actually liked Caprica, however glacial its pace.
Somewhat to my surprise, I enjoyed the fact that there were no good guys to root for or skew things, and that there were instead only various grubby permutations of Godzilla vs. Rodan (Mecha-Godzilla?).
Power-mad industrialists vs. suicide-bombing terrorists vs. gangland thugs?
Nifty.
posted by darth_tedious at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Somewhat to my surprise, I enjoyed the fact that there were no good guys to root for or skew things, and that there were instead only various grubby permutations of Godzilla vs. Rodan (Mecha-Godzilla?).
Power-mad industrialists vs. suicide-bombing terrorists vs. gangland thugs?
Nifty.
posted by darth_tedious at 12:50 PM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
FWIW, the end of BSG is a lot more acceptable if you decide that The Event is the show's unofficial sequel.
posted by aaronetc at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by aaronetc at 12:52 PM on October 28, 2010
I don't know, I'm still looking forward to Battlestar Galactica: Saliva & Firefox.
posted by Partial Law at 12:53 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Partial Law at 12:53 PM on October 28, 2010
As for why it was unable to build viewership, might it be because the morons at SyFy decided to have a goddamned hiatus in the middle of the first fucking season, making us wait six fucking months to finish the fucking thing?
No, there's no way that might have depressed viewer numbers at all. Idiots. Then they can it just when it's getting interesting again. Double idiots.
posted by wierdo at 12:54 PM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
No, there's no way that might have depressed viewer numbers at all. Idiots. Then they can it just when it's getting interesting again. Double idiots.
posted by wierdo at 12:54 PM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Blame it on the Caprica
Suckin more than Dracula
Blame it on the Cylon
tryin to get into the sack with ya
Blood and Chrome Gala a a a a actica
Blood and Chrome Gala a a a a actica
posted by Benjamin Nushmutt at 12:56 PM on October 28, 2010
Suckin more than Dracula
Blame it on the Cylon
tryin to get into the sack with ya
Blood and Chrome Gala a a a a actica
Blood and Chrome Gala a a a a actica
posted by Benjamin Nushmutt at 12:56 PM on October 28, 2010
Let's move BSG to Discovery Channel.
Battlestar Galactica: Hoarders
Battlestar Galactica: Little People, Big Universe
posted by GuyZero at 1:05 PM on October 28, 2010
Battlestar Galactica: Hoarders
Battlestar Galactica: Little People, Big Universe
posted by GuyZero at 1:05 PM on October 28, 2010
Future Man from 2010: "But it will be handheld."
Consumer from 1990: "Well, then..."
Future Man: Thefrogurt handheld is also cursed.
posted by zippy at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2010
Consumer from 1990: "Well, then..."
Future Man: The
posted by zippy at 1:06 PM on October 28, 2010
This from Thorzad pretty much sums up my response:
This doesn't surprise me. There were simply too many story lines, too much navel-gazing, too much angst, too much smoking. It's really a textbook case of contemporary tv writers inability to construct a tight, focused story arc. And without every character being so deeply, achingly dysfunctional to where I really didn't give a crap about any of them.
I really wanted to like Caprica. I kept watching it, waiting for it to latch onto a viable story line, but it just kept flailing about, as if the writers were taking the "throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks" method.
I liked the first few episodes a lot, but the longer the show went on, the less successive episodes were cohering. They were simply stuffing too much into each hour, and not leaving anything for me to connect to meaningfully.
posted by hwestiii at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2010
This doesn't surprise me. There were simply too many story lines, too much navel-gazing, too much angst, too much smoking. It's really a textbook case of contemporary tv writers inability to construct a tight, focused story arc. And without every character being so deeply, achingly dysfunctional to where I really didn't give a crap about any of them.
I really wanted to like Caprica. I kept watching it, waiting for it to latch onto a viable story line, but it just kept flailing about, as if the writers were taking the "throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks" method.
I liked the first few episodes a lot, but the longer the show went on, the less successive episodes were cohering. They were simply stuffing too much into each hour, and not leaving anything for me to connect to meaningfully.
posted by hwestiii at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2010
Baltar raises a thermal camera.
Baltar: Look! A heat spot! It's definitely a vortex!
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2010
Baltar: Look! A heat spot! It's definitely a vortex!
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on October 28, 2010
I LIKED Caprica.
Or, allow me to quote what I said last night when I found out it was cancelled (children, cover your ears):
"FUCKINGfuckingfuckfuckfuck FUCKING SYFY fuck them oh my GOD what the fuck is WRONG with those people jesus fucking christ on a fucking stick FUUUUUUUCK."
Then I headbutted my boyfriend, for good measure, because he was the bearer of the bad news.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 1:09 PM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
Or, allow me to quote what I said last night when I found out it was cancelled (children, cover your ears):
"FUCKINGfuckingfuckfuckfuck FUCKING SYFY fuck them oh my GOD what the fuck is WRONG with those people jesus fucking christ on a fucking stick FUUUUUUUCK."
Then I headbutted my boyfriend, for good measure, because he was the bearer of the bad news.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 1:09 PM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think the issue was that SyFy marketed Caprica to BSG fans, and the shows couldn't be more different. BSG is my favorite show of all time and I have to grit my teeth to get through every single boring-ass episode of Caprica that my husband, who hated BSG, adores. The audiences were just not compatible.
I have high hopes for this new one, though. Hopefully there will be lots of space explosions.
posted by something something at 1:12 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have high hopes for this new one, though. Hopefully there will be lots of space explosions.
posted by something something at 1:12 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I really wanted to like Caprica. I kept watching it, waiting for it to latch onto a viable story line, but it just kept flailing about
You know, I'm not saying that I don't think folks should do this, because it's a large and diverse and friendly world, but I suppose I've never really understood what goes into the decision to keep watching a show you don't like.
I saw this happen a lot when Dollhouse was on, too. More than one person I knew said the show wasn't any good but they watched it anyway, or - perhaps more troublesome - that it doesn't get good until the eighth episode or so, meaning they watched seven episodes of a show they did not enjoy.
I don't mean that pejoratively - just that I don't understand it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:24 PM on October 28, 2010
You know, I'm not saying that I don't think folks should do this, because it's a large and diverse and friendly world, but I suppose I've never really understood what goes into the decision to keep watching a show you don't like.
I saw this happen a lot when Dollhouse was on, too. More than one person I knew said the show wasn't any good but they watched it anyway, or - perhaps more troublesome - that it doesn't get good until the eighth episode or so, meaning they watched seven episodes of a show they did not enjoy.
I don't mean that pejoratively - just that I don't understand it.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:24 PM on October 28, 2010
I figured out what has been bugging me about the spinoffs.
What made BSG good was the characters, played by those particular actors. The plot was important, but what broke some of our hearts is that we felt like the plot went bad at the end regarding characters that we really like, and we felt like they (within the context of the broader show) deserved better.
I want another Adama and Tigh, played by those same actors. I don't necessarily want another show about those characters, played by someone else, unless they are really good and make me care in the same way. That last part is the sticking point so far.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
What made BSG good was the characters, played by those particular actors. The plot was important, but what broke some of our hearts is that we felt like the plot went bad at the end regarding characters that we really like, and we felt like they (within the context of the broader show) deserved better.
I want another Adama and Tigh, played by those same actors. I don't necessarily want another show about those characters, played by someone else, unless they are really good and make me care in the same way. That last part is the sticking point so far.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
I liked Caprica. I liked that it wasn't trying to be BSG. (C'mon, did anyone actually see Razor? Talk about a steaming pile of shite!) Did Caprica have its flaws? Sure, but it was still the most interesting & intelligent show on SyFy. Warehouse 13, Eureka & Haven are OK, but they're brain candy. SyFy is all but the ghetto crackhouse of programming for NBC/Universal. Wrestling & cheesy Monster Mash-Ups are the engine that drive the channel. I'll pass, thanks.
posted by KingEdRa at 1:29 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by KingEdRa at 1:29 PM on October 28, 2010
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
So, I don't usually quote myself, but I just wanted to mention that I meant Baltar from BSG:TOS. I actually forgot for a moment that there was a Baltar in the new BSG. I liked the old Baltar better.
posted by GuyZero at 1:36 PM on October 28, 2010
So, I don't usually quote myself, but I just wanted to mention that I meant Baltar from BSG:TOS. I actually forgot for a moment that there was a Baltar in the new BSG. I liked the old Baltar better.
posted by GuyZero at 1:36 PM on October 28, 2010
Another BSG spin-off? Really? I approve only if Baltar makes a re-appearance.
Shirtless Russel Brand cast as his younger incarnation, pls.
posted by contessa at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Shirtless Russel Brand cast as his younger incarnation, pls.
posted by contessa at 1:41 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I loved BSG. Do love BSG. But I honestly have no interest in watching Caprica at this point. I wish they'd go off and take the same people who came up with BSG in all its awesome... and do something new. They are clearly an incredibly talented and creative team who is capable of this. It's not new and fascinating to me anymore. I want something fresh. I don't want this to turn into BSG: Enterprise. I want something where I don't know how it ends, where the rules aren't the ones I'm already familiar with. I want to be surprised.
Sadly, my experience with the media doesn't give me much hope on the issue.
posted by gracedissolved at 1:43 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sadly, my experience with the media doesn't give me much hope on the issue.
posted by gracedissolved at 1:43 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
I like war movies and series. I like space movies and series. I really liked BSG as a space-war series. If Blood and Chrome can deliver the feeling of the first few cyclon enounters in the BSG miniseries, but on the scale of an entire war AND WITHOUT ANY GODDAMN SKINJOBS TO CONFUSE EVERYBODY, then I think they really have something.
Also, I don't get why scifi stuff always seems to focus on the part of a story after all the cool events are over. Terminator was this way until Salvation. It was terrible. Enterprise had promise because it was supposed to bridge Roddenberry's futuristic utopia to something closer to our own world. It was less than great. Why can't the most interesting time in any scifi universe be the best part of the series? Why did we have to wait until 2009 to actually see a movie about the War with The Machines? Hell, even the Foundation novels sort of gloss over the actual downfall of a Galaxy-spanning civilization with a bunch of hand waving and the (admittedly conceptually interesting) pseudo-religion of Seldon's psychohistory. Why isn't there a Ringworld book set in the time of its construction? If it did exist, why would it probably suck? And why, given this clear trend, am I still hopeful about the potential of a series about the First Cylon War?
posted by LiteOpera at 1:45 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, I don't get why scifi stuff always seems to focus on the part of a story after all the cool events are over. Terminator was this way until Salvation. It was terrible. Enterprise had promise because it was supposed to bridge Roddenberry's futuristic utopia to something closer to our own world. It was less than great. Why can't the most interesting time in any scifi universe be the best part of the series? Why did we have to wait until 2009 to actually see a movie about the War with The Machines? Hell, even the Foundation novels sort of gloss over the actual downfall of a Galaxy-spanning civilization with a bunch of hand waving and the (admittedly conceptually interesting) pseudo-religion of Seldon's psychohistory. Why isn't there a Ringworld book set in the time of its construction? If it did exist, why would it probably suck? And why, given this clear trend, am I still hopeful about the potential of a series about the First Cylon War?
posted by LiteOpera at 1:45 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Caprica had some interesting ideas being hashed out in its New Caprica setting, as far as how people acted out their worst instincts and impulses. I also loved the fedoras and the post-noir look of the characters and set design. What other show goes to the trouble of using old Citroens to drive characters around?
It was consistently better than the mostly mediocre Dollhouse, but it wasn't enough to save it. From the point of view of the narrative, it flailed about in so many directions, some of which were not explained too well.
They spent way too much time on characters that were difficult to care about, or who were given more screentime than needed to move the story forward. The first season's main arc boiled down to Zoe escaping, and it took ages to get to some kind of resolution of that.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:48 PM on October 28, 2010
It was consistently better than the mostly mediocre Dollhouse, but it wasn't enough to save it. From the point of view of the narrative, it flailed about in so many directions, some of which were not explained too well.
They spent way too much time on characters that were difficult to care about, or who were given more screentime than needed to move the story forward. The first season's main arc boiled down to Zoe escaping, and it took ages to get to some kind of resolution of that.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:48 PM on October 28, 2010
I liked the idea of Caprica - as a big fan of BSG, I'd welcome knowing more about how the Cylons were created, and how they came to have a monotheistic worldview when they were created in a polytheistic culture... But the writing is turgid, at best, and the direction is a lame imitation of the style Michael Rymer brought to BSG.
posted by OneMonkeysUncle at 1:49 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by OneMonkeysUncle at 1:49 PM on October 28, 2010
I would be happy to hear some ideas for alternate endings that would have been better.
Not killing Starbuck in season 3, then bringing her back two episodes later, then having her do nothing that makes any sense at all whatsoever in Season Four before vanishing in a puff of smoke in the final episode (seriously, the actress who plays Starbuck says in a special that Season four was very difficult for her because nothing Starbuck did made any sense.)
posted by Ndwright at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
Not killing Starbuck in season 3, then bringing her back two episodes later, then having her do nothing that makes any sense at all whatsoever in Season Four before vanishing in a puff of smoke in the final episode (seriously, the actress who plays Starbuck says in a special that Season four was very difficult for her because nothing Starbuck did made any sense.)
posted by Ndwright at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]
I LIKED Caprica.
Or, allow me to quote what I said last night when I found out it was cancelled (children, cover your ears):
"FUCKINGfuckingfuckfuckfuck FUCKING SYFY fuck them oh my GOD what the fuck is WRONG with those people jesus fucking christ on a fucking stick FUUUUUUUCK."
Then I headbutted my boyfriend, for good measure, because he was the bearer of the bad news.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:09 PM on October 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
Eponysterical.
posted by Edison Carter at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010
Or, allow me to quote what I said last night when I found out it was cancelled (children, cover your ears):
"FUCKINGfuckingfuckfuckfuck FUCKING SYFY fuck them oh my GOD what the fuck is WRONG with those people jesus fucking christ on a fucking stick FUUUUUUUCK."
Then I headbutted my boyfriend, for good measure, because he was the bearer of the bad news.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:09 PM on October 28 [1 favorite +] [!]
Eponysterical.
posted by Edison Carter at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010
see, full blow cylon revolts always raises the revenue stream.
posted by clavdivs at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by clavdivs at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2010
You know, I'm not saying that I don't think folks should do this, because it's a large and diverse and friendly world, but I suppose I've never really understood what goes into the decision to keep watching a show you don't like.
For me, it's usually because I can see the possibilities in the show's premise, and keep hoping the writers and producers will figure it out. Sort of like this magical episode will somehow materialize where everyone involved in the show finally gets it. That's how Caprica was for me.
See also: Rooting for the Cubs, year after year.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:54 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
For me, it's usually because I can see the possibilities in the show's premise, and keep hoping the writers and producers will figure it out. Sort of like this magical episode will somehow materialize where everyone involved in the show finally gets it. That's how Caprica was for me.
See also: Rooting for the Cubs, year after year.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:54 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
I saw this happen a lot when Dollhouse was on, too. More than one person I knew said the show wasn't any good but they watched it anyway, or - perhaps more troublesome - that it doesn't get good until the eighth episode or so, meaning they watched seven episodes of a show they did not enjoy.
As someone who has done this, I can say at least one reason is that, for whatever reason (actors, writers, executive producers - whoever), they think there's a good chance the show will get better. Some shows do actually get a lot better - like, since you brought it up, Dollhouse, which had a couple fantastic episodes and characters/actors that made me glad I sat through all the bad ones.
Caprica, on the other hand, I didn't give much of a chance. To be honest, I was turned off by what struck me as heavy-handed religious stuff in the first couple episodes, and on top of that I thought the dialogue was awful and none of the characters interested me. I only watched two episodes and then that was it. I liked BSG, which is why I started watching it, but I got the impression right away that I wasn't ever going to like this. Maybe it got better, but I wasn't intrigued enough to find out.
posted by wondermouse at 1:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
As someone who has done this, I can say at least one reason is that, for whatever reason (actors, writers, executive producers - whoever), they think there's a good chance the show will get better. Some shows do actually get a lot better - like, since you brought it up, Dollhouse, which had a couple fantastic episodes and characters/actors that made me glad I sat through all the bad ones.
Caprica, on the other hand, I didn't give much of a chance. To be honest, I was turned off by what struck me as heavy-handed religious stuff in the first couple episodes, and on top of that I thought the dialogue was awful and none of the characters interested me. I only watched two episodes and then that was it. I liked BSG, which is why I started watching it, but I got the impression right away that I wasn't ever going to like this. Maybe it got better, but I wasn't intrigued enough to find out.
posted by wondermouse at 1:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]
Zozo writes: Man, was it ever not the theology that put me off the BSG finale.
For me the problem with the BSG finale was precisely the theology. I didn't mind the supernaturalism, Starbuck being some sort of mysterious angel, or anything like that.
What pissed me off was the fact that the show abandoned it's initial interest in polytheism. I mean, I really liked the oracles and priests and different cults (not "cults" in a negative sense) that one could find throughout the Galactica fleet. I mean, this was conceptually and historically interesting (or at least potentially so), and not something I've really seen in other film or TV science fiction. I have to say that my ambivalence about Abrahamic monotheism in the wake of 9-11 and George Bush's Christian crusade in Iraq made this polytheistic angle all the more interesting, since BSG was all about post 9-11 issues.
So, for the BSG to in the finale pull a "Bread and Circuses", where we realize that the folly of the BSG crew was their failure to worship at the altar of the One True God was more than a little depressing. Furthermore, this sudden rejection of heathenism (which what it seemed to be) was accomplished in such a lazy way. I mean, what happened to all the priests and priestesses who were supposedly so important to the fleet? Did they all suddenly convert? Get thrown out the airlocks? Continue to spread their misguided nonsense (since we've learned their beliefs aren't true)? Or what?
The monotheistic ending could really have been interesting if they had bothered to play it out through some conflicts between people and ideas or something. But instead of such a resolution, we get a sloppy ending that's theological, but that's dodged all the interesting theological problems that the series began by proposing.
This ending was actually pretty effective in other respects, drawing the Adama/Roslin plot arc to an especially powerful conclusion. In fact, most characters are dealt with pretty satisfactorily in the end. But the cheesy theology was enough to put me off watching Caprica. Unfortunately, it sounds like I haven't missed too much.
posted by washburn at 2:04 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
For me the problem with the BSG finale was precisely the theology. I didn't mind the supernaturalism, Starbuck being some sort of mysterious angel, or anything like that.
What pissed me off was the fact that the show abandoned it's initial interest in polytheism. I mean, I really liked the oracles and priests and different cults (not "cults" in a negative sense) that one could find throughout the Galactica fleet. I mean, this was conceptually and historically interesting (or at least potentially so), and not something I've really seen in other film or TV science fiction. I have to say that my ambivalence about Abrahamic monotheism in the wake of 9-11 and George Bush's Christian crusade in Iraq made this polytheistic angle all the more interesting, since BSG was all about post 9-11 issues.
So, for the BSG to in the finale pull a "Bread and Circuses", where we realize that the folly of the BSG crew was their failure to worship at the altar of the One True God was more than a little depressing. Furthermore, this sudden rejection of heathenism (which what it seemed to be) was accomplished in such a lazy way. I mean, what happened to all the priests and priestesses who were supposedly so important to the fleet? Did they all suddenly convert? Get thrown out the airlocks? Continue to spread their misguided nonsense (since we've learned their beliefs aren't true)? Or what?
The monotheistic ending could really have been interesting if they had bothered to play it out through some conflicts between people and ideas or something. But instead of such a resolution, we get a sloppy ending that's theological, but that's dodged all the interesting theological problems that the series began by proposing.
This ending was actually pretty effective in other respects, drawing the Adama/Roslin plot arc to an especially powerful conclusion. In fact, most characters are dealt with pretty satisfactorily in the end. But the cheesy theology was enough to put me off watching Caprica. Unfortunately, it sounds like I haven't missed too much.
posted by washburn at 2:04 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hell, given how pointless the events of BSG have rendered any of the events in these prequels I don't see why I would possibly care.
Only if "how things will wind up in the end" is the entire aim of the shows.
/hasn't seen Caprica
posted by brundlefly at 2:08 PM on October 28, 2010
Only if "how things will wind up in the end" is the entire aim of the shows.
/hasn't seen Caprica
posted by brundlefly at 2:08 PM on October 28, 2010
I would be happy to hear some ideas for alternate endings that would have been better.
*sighs* Why do you tempt me so?!
I think a lot of stuff could be left in place, just some tweaking. A lot of the religious stuff needs to stay, but leave out the actual appearance of God and his angels. Or whatever the hell they were.
Season Three or most of it should have been spent on New Caprica, with Cylons and Humans mingling and choosing sides. It could have ended with the rescue and then lines drawn as it went into Season 4. Some Cylons would still want to destroy all humans and travel to Earth, the original birth place of humanity and perform a ritual to become one with God (this involves the opera house stuff and is the Cylons final plan, to become part of the One God). They achieve this plan by harvesting the DNA of who they judge to the best human female and male still alive. Hence the chasing of humans and monitoring of them by sleeper agents, their plan is to judge the best of humanity and bring their DNA to the final ritual because God exists in all things, even the damn humans, so they feel they need that DNA to prove that they've seen God's presence in everything. They'll merge with God using a device powered by the DNA of that final human couple. The device is activated by the presence of the 12 and will only work with all them there at the Final Ascension.
After the breakdown of peace on New Caprica, the final five would be revealed and maybe activated. The final fours could stay the same, but change the Fifth to Doc Cottle (No need to ever see Tigh's Wife again), who would really struggle with being a healer and training other humans to be healers, yet have a "mission" to kill humans. Making Ellen the final c
Cottle, Tigh and Terrell stick with humans. Sam and what's her name side with Cylons. The fleet's humans are steadily losing their shit, some wanting to go back to New Caprica arrangement, other wanting to just take off somewhere and still others wanting to kill all the Cylons (Hence a lot of the mutiny could stay). Cylons get Hera, intending to use copies of friendly Cylons to complete ritual and become one with God. Humans and human loving Cylons go after her. Lots of characters die, good guys ultimately win and decide the New Caprica will be Earth, 'cause your home may not be perfect, but it becomes home based on what you make of it. They may not know how they're going to make that world, the point is they're going to try.
And yes, goddamnit, they're still going to keep all their technology at the end.
posted by nomadicink at 2:23 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
*sighs* Why do you tempt me so?!
I think a lot of stuff could be left in place, just some tweaking. A lot of the religious stuff needs to stay, but leave out the actual appearance of God and his angels. Or whatever the hell they were.
Season Three or most of it should have been spent on New Caprica, with Cylons and Humans mingling and choosing sides. It could have ended with the rescue and then lines drawn as it went into Season 4. Some Cylons would still want to destroy all humans and travel to Earth, the original birth place of humanity and perform a ritual to become one with God (this involves the opera house stuff and is the Cylons final plan, to become part of the One God). They achieve this plan by harvesting the DNA of who they judge to the best human female and male still alive. Hence the chasing of humans and monitoring of them by sleeper agents, their plan is to judge the best of humanity and bring their DNA to the final ritual because God exists in all things, even the damn humans, so they feel they need that DNA to prove that they've seen God's presence in everything. They'll merge with God using a device powered by the DNA of that final human couple. The device is activated by the presence of the 12 and will only work with all them there at the Final Ascension.
After the breakdown of peace on New Caprica, the final five would be revealed and maybe activated. The final fours could stay the same, but change the Fifth to Doc Cottle (No need to ever see Tigh's Wife again), who would really struggle with being a healer and training other humans to be healers, yet have a "mission" to kill humans. Making Ellen the final c
Cottle, Tigh and Terrell stick with humans. Sam and what's her name side with Cylons. The fleet's humans are steadily losing their shit, some wanting to go back to New Caprica arrangement, other wanting to just take off somewhere and still others wanting to kill all the Cylons (Hence a lot of the mutiny could stay). Cylons get Hera, intending to use copies of friendly Cylons to complete ritual and become one with God. Humans and human loving Cylons go after her. Lots of characters die, good guys ultimately win and decide the New Caprica will be Earth, 'cause your home may not be perfect, but it becomes home based on what you make of it. They may not know how they're going to make that world, the point is they're going to try.
And yes, goddamnit, they're still going to keep all their technology at the end.
posted by nomadicink at 2:23 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
OH GOD WHY DO YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME RELIVE THIS?
posted by The Whelk at 2:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:27 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
/mourns the awesome sounding but sadly nonexistant KFC Frakk Pack.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on October 28, 2010
artw, I think the Frakk Pack was the big band group that Adama headed up.
posted by boo_radley at 2:46 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by boo_radley at 2:46 PM on October 28, 2010
Jubal:
Your remark about Justified sounded to me like it had indeed been cancelled. Thankfully, that does not seem to be the case!
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Your remark about Justified sounded to me like it had indeed been cancelled. Thankfully, that does not seem to be the case!
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 2:48 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Haven't even seen this season yet. Sigh... Another science fiction show down.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:50 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Kevin Street at 2:50 PM on October 28, 2010
boo_radley - I was hoping for more of a robo-genocide themed happy meal named after futuristic swears!
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:51 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
The show was always about the intersection of myth, religion; and science
posted by fremen
Figures that YOU would like that.
Anyway, the intersection of religion and science is very different from the intersection of woo-woo hand-wavy supernatural godstuff and science. The show started off as the former, ended as the latter. That's what bugged me about a lot of the 4th season. While BSG began as an interesting look at what happens when a society is on the verge of complete annihilation and the kinds of irrational behavior that rigid belief systems can provoke in people, it added in too much supernatural bullshit without ever giving a good reason for it besides, "Um,Jebus the One True God (he doesn't like to be called that) did it." Talk about a deus ex machina. There were a lot of things I got frustrated with, but that was it. I mean, I would have preferred a different final 5. Tigh and Tyrell were fine, but Sam? I mean, I guess he was an OK choice, but that other woman, the President's assistant? ELLEN TIGH? They were lame, lame characters. I also thought the use of "All Along the Watchtower" was annooooooying and pretentious. But it was that finale that killed me, and even then, it was mainly the 2nd half, with landing on earth, brain angels (braingels?), giving up all technology, the terrifying spectacle of a Roomba uprising... The end of the show was, as a whole, so disappointing and off-putting for me that I got rid of my DVDs of Seasons 1-3. I couldn't enjoy reliving the mystery knowing that it was going nowhere good.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fremen
Figures that YOU would like that.
Anyway, the intersection of religion and science is very different from the intersection of woo-woo hand-wavy supernatural godstuff and science. The show started off as the former, ended as the latter. That's what bugged me about a lot of the 4th season. While BSG began as an interesting look at what happens when a society is on the verge of complete annihilation and the kinds of irrational behavior that rigid belief systems can provoke in people, it added in too much supernatural bullshit without ever giving a good reason for it besides, "Um,
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
artw, I think the Frakk Pack was the big band group that Adama headed up.
aka Kara Thrace and her Special Destiny
posted by Tenuki at 2:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
aka Kara Thrace and her Special Destiny
posted by Tenuki at 2:58 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
Another BSG spin-off? Really?
You know, I hardly think you can call THE ENTIRE STORY OF THE FIRST CYLON WAR a spin-off.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:08 PM on October 28, 2010
You know, I hardly think you can call THE ENTIRE STORY OF THE FIRST CYLON WAR a spin-off.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:08 PM on October 28, 2010
The show started off as the former, ended as the latter.
What? Even in season 1, by the time they got to "The Hand of God" we were seeing prophecy becoming true, and then there's the stuff in the opera house on Kobol.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:11 PM on October 28, 2010
What? Even in season 1, by the time they got to "The Hand of God" we were seeing prophecy becoming true, and then there's the stuff in the opera house on Kobol.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:11 PM on October 28, 2010
This ending was actually pretty effective in other respects, drawing the Adama/Roslin plot arc to an especially powerful conclusion. In fact, most characters are dealt with pretty satisfactorily in the end.
There have already been massive spoilers in this thread, so here's more: Adama apparently said goodbye to his son forever, to go and live completely alone for the rest of his days. Starbuck vanishes into thin air. Baltar, once the greatest scientist in the Colonies, decides to become a farmer. Everyone else is apparently fine with abandoning all of their technology (sending their spaceships into the frakking sun no less) and will probably freeze or starve to death that winter or succumb to some disease soon after that could have been cured if they all hadn't suddenly become Amish. The Cylons fly off into space and apparently never return. I didn't find any of that satisfactory.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 3:41 PM on October 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
There have already been massive spoilers in this thread, so here's more: Adama apparently said goodbye to his son forever, to go and live completely alone for the rest of his days. Starbuck vanishes into thin air. Baltar, once the greatest scientist in the Colonies, decides to become a farmer. Everyone else is apparently fine with abandoning all of their technology (sending their spaceships into the frakking sun no less) and will probably freeze or starve to death that winter or succumb to some disease soon after that could have been cured if they all hadn't suddenly become Amish. The Cylons fly off into space and apparently never return. I didn't find any of that satisfactory.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 3:41 PM on October 28, 2010 [6 favorites]
LiteOpera: Why isn't there a Ringworld book set in the time of its construction? If it did exist, why would it probably suck?
It would suck because it would probably be written by Larry Niven.
posted by localroger at 4:00 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
It would suck because it would probably be written by Larry Niven.
posted by localroger at 4:00 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]
ROU_Xenophobe, from the original BSG TOS it was all a very deliberate allegory, created by a Mormon, of the origins of the Mormon church slash homeland. TOS was less heavy-handed but there were lots of parallels if you knew the history of J. Smith and his little band of followers. BSG:Remixed was probably closer to the original concept. And while this unpleasant undertone is pleasantly absent from Caprica I'm unsure if that's because the current writers have just lost that thread, or if they are deliberately casting it as an era before God had bothered to reveal himself to a suitable Prophet.
posted by localroger at 4:05 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by localroger at 4:05 PM on October 28, 2010
Why isn't there a Ringworld book set in the time of its construction?
Because it would be about Pak, and Pak are boring.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:45 PM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Because it would be about Pak, and Pak are boring.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 4:45 PM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]
Man, I hated Caprica. I'll stick with a show until it's terminally boring (I'm looking at you, No Ordinary Family) or super pisses me off, and Caprica hit the latter in the pilot for me. Just creepy, creepy, creepy. Zoe is a jerkass character and she's the... hero? Really? Ugh. That girl is cute, but her character is a multiple jerk.
The Battlestar crew could do so much better.
And I agree with everyone else pissed about Starbuck. UGH.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on October 28, 2010
The Battlestar crew could do so much better.
And I agree with everyone else pissed about Starbuck. UGH.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:01 PM on October 28, 2010
I was intrigued at first about how Cylons came about.
Caprica would have been better if they'd left out the whole 'one true God' aspect and concentrated mostly on the avatar program; perhaps that the creation of such a program was what caused Cylons to eventually become self-aware and thus rebel against their creators.
posted by bwg at 6:34 PM on October 28, 2010
Caprica would have been better if they'd left out the whole 'one true God' aspect and concentrated mostly on the avatar program; perhaps that the creation of such a program was what caused Cylons to eventually become self-aware and thus rebel against their creators.
posted by bwg at 6:34 PM on October 28, 2010
It would suck because it would probably be written by Larry Niven.
Aw. I'm wounded. He's one of my favorite authors.
Because it would be about Pak, and Pak are boring.
Really? I think they're fascinating. And I love the whole humans-as-breeders, geriatric conditions are pre-protector-traits thing.
posted by Netzapper at 6:41 PM on October 28, 2010
Aw. I'm wounded. He's one of my favorite authors.
Because it would be about Pak, and Pak are boring.
Really? I think they're fascinating. And I love the whole humans-as-breeders, geriatric conditions are pre-protector-traits thing.
posted by Netzapper at 6:41 PM on October 28, 2010
Netzapper, I sympathize. Niven was once one of my favorite authors too. But he ran out of ideas a long, long time ago. It's been a very long time since he wrote something without a co-author, and by "very long time" I mean there are people who can drink alcohol legally now who weren't born then. Meanwhile we have people like Kim Stanley Robertson and Iain M. Banks doing things nobody has done before.
The Pak were one of Niven's decent pre-running-out ideas, but it would be very hard to tell such an involved story about them. In fact despite Niven's confidence that the Pak built Ringworld, it's kind of hard to envision them cooperating long enough to finish the damn thing the way he wrote them. And considering in our current thread people think Caprica suffers from a lack of sympathetic characters, how the hell do you get them into a story where all of the characters are Pak Protectors?
Also, don't forget, the Ringworld as Niven envisioned it is unstable. The ramjets he put in in Ringworld Engineers are exactly the kind of hack the Pak would not have trusted, and it's Iain Banks who figured out how to make the basic idea work for real. (Assuming as usual you could solve the material strength problem.)
posted by localroger at 7:00 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Pak were one of Niven's decent pre-running-out ideas, but it would be very hard to tell such an involved story about them. In fact despite Niven's confidence that the Pak built Ringworld, it's kind of hard to envision them cooperating long enough to finish the damn thing the way he wrote them. And considering in our current thread people think Caprica suffers from a lack of sympathetic characters, how the hell do you get them into a story where all of the characters are Pak Protectors?
Also, don't forget, the Ringworld as Niven envisioned it is unstable. The ramjets he put in in Ringworld Engineers are exactly the kind of hack the Pak would not have trusted, and it's Iain Banks who figured out how to make the basic idea work for real. (Assuming as usual you could solve the material strength problem.)
posted by localroger at 7:00 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
ROU_Xenophobe: What? Even in season 1, by the time they got to "The Hand of God" we were seeing prophecy becoming true, and then there's the stuff in the opera house on Kobol.
Yes, that's true, but what I meant wasn't that there were no mysteries or strange events in the beginning, but it seemed that, you know, there was a fucking PLAN behind them. Even in Season 3 it became pretty clear that the writers had no plan. There wasn't some elaborate thought-out narrative, they were just throwing shit at the wall and then trying to write around it. Or who knows, maybe Moore and Co had it all planned out that way from the beginning, and they just had an unbelievably stupid freaking idea.
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:25 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, that's true, but what I meant wasn't that there were no mysteries or strange events in the beginning, but it seemed that, you know, there was a fucking PLAN behind them. Even in Season 3 it became pretty clear that the writers had no plan. There wasn't some elaborate thought-out narrative, they were just throwing shit at the wall and then trying to write around it. Or who knows, maybe Moore and Co had it all planned out that way from the beginning, and they just had an unbelievably stupid freaking idea.
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:25 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Pak were one of Niven's decent pre-running-out ideas, but it would be very hard to tell such an involved story about them.
This reminds me of John W. Campell's law, as given to Vernor Vinge when he tried to submit a story about a being with augmented intelligence: "You can't write this story. Neither can anyone else." It might not be too much of a stretch to suppose that this informed Vinge's thinking about the Singularity. I think he even says as much in one of his introductions.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:30 PM on October 28, 2010
This reminds me of John W. Campell's law, as given to Vernor Vinge when he tried to submit a story about a being with augmented intelligence: "You can't write this story. Neither can anyone else." It might not be too much of a stretch to suppose that this informed Vinge's thinking about the Singularity. I think he even says as much in one of his introductions.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:30 PM on October 28, 2010
For fuck's sake, can we PLEASE have another shot at Firefly? You know? A show that was actually FUN to watch?
posted by Thistledown at 9:00 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by Thistledown at 9:00 PM on October 28, 2010
Yes, that's true, but what I meant wasn't that there were no mysteries or strange events in the beginning, but it seemed that, you know, there was a fucking PLAN behind them. Even in Season 3 it became pretty clear that the writers had no plan. There wasn't some elaborate thought-out narrative, they were just throwing shit at the wall and then trying to write around it. Or who knows, maybe Moore and Co had it all planned out that way from the beginning, and they just had an unbelievably stupid freaking idea.
I loved BSG, but I'm pretty certain that they didn't have the ending of the series planned out when they sat down to begin writing the last episode.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:04 PM on October 28, 2010
I loved BSG, but I'm pretty certain that they didn't have the ending of the series planned out when they sat down to begin writing the last episode.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:04 PM on October 28, 2010
I liked this show. I thought it was good. But there was way too much crying about stuff and not enough actual stuff. I am surprised that it was canceled, because I liked it a lot and never considered that possibility, but I guess I shouldn't be.
The detail on the life and culture of the planets was interesting. And I liked trying to figure out how each of the actions taken by characters related to Zoe would shape the Cylons into who they were. It's also very unfortunate whenever a series is canceled after shooting stops. The "final five" episodes remaining will probably lead up to a huge, unresolved cliffhanger.
Well, I was just starting to like Stargate Universe more anyway.
posted by chemoboy at 9:13 PM on October 28, 2010
The detail on the life and culture of the planets was interesting. And I liked trying to figure out how each of the actions taken by characters related to Zoe would shape the Cylons into who they were. It's also very unfortunate whenever a series is canceled after shooting stops. The "final five" episodes remaining will probably lead up to a huge, unresolved cliffhanger.
Well, I was just starting to like Stargate Universe more anyway.
posted by chemoboy at 9:13 PM on October 28, 2010
Battlestar Galactica: Say Yes To The Duress.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:51 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by blue_beetle at 9:51 PM on October 28, 2010
For fuck's sake, can we PLEASE have another shot at Firefly? You know? A show that was actually FUN to watch?
Isn't there, like, a movie and a whole comic series?
I realize you want more television, but it always takes time for the good ones. And, I mean, Firefly got its movie much quicker than ST:TOS did.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:57 PM on October 28, 2010
Isn't there, like, a movie and a whole comic series?
I realize you want more television, but it always takes time for the good ones. And, I mean, Firefly got its movie much quicker than ST:TOS did.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:57 PM on October 28, 2010
I don't know what all this hating is about. Caprica was brilliant. After watching a few episodes, I was very happy to know that the Cylons would eventually blast that wretched planet populated by cardboard acting and forgettable, tangled subplots into space dust. Changed my whole appreciation for BSG, since now I'm on the machines' side!
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:21 PM on October 28, 2010
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:21 PM on October 28, 2010
I tried so hard to like Caprica, because with BSG even after it became clear that the writers were a hundred times better at setting up mysteries and prophecies than they were at actually having them play out, they still wrote compelling, fun-to-watch characters. But the Caprica characters were so boring I really didn't care if they succeeded or failed.
I hope the new IT'S GOT SPACESHIPS IN IT, NERDS spin-off is good, because I still like the universe even after the sequence of deus ex machina headbutts at the end of BSG, but if I like it it won't be because it's a return to space battles and explosions, it'll be because I care about the characters. And it'll be kind of a shame if it does turn out to be good, because it'll be seen as an endorsement of the idea that the only good sci-fi is military sci-fi, and Caprica was at least a step away from the blight on American filmed sci-fi that is military/police hero worship.
Everyone else is apparently fine with abandoning all of their technology (sending their spaceships into the frakking sun no less) and will probably freeze or starve to death that winter or succumb to some disease soon after that could have been cured if they all hadn't suddenly become Amish. The Cylons fly off into space and apparently never return.
I hated all the GOD DID IT ALL ALONG non-resolutions in BSG, but these last two plot points, which had basically no lolgod involvement, were the most unjustified, unsatisfying, and disappointing parts of the finale. There was no build-up to them, no explanation as to why; they just happened, because the writers wanted the humans and models on Earth and the Centurions out of the way. It was just so lazy.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 12:48 AM on October 29, 2010
I hope the new IT'S GOT SPACESHIPS IN IT, NERDS spin-off is good, because I still like the universe even after the sequence of deus ex machina headbutts at the end of BSG, but if I like it it won't be because it's a return to space battles and explosions, it'll be because I care about the characters. And it'll be kind of a shame if it does turn out to be good, because it'll be seen as an endorsement of the idea that the only good sci-fi is military sci-fi, and Caprica was at least a step away from the blight on American filmed sci-fi that is military/police hero worship.
Everyone else is apparently fine with abandoning all of their technology (sending their spaceships into the frakking sun no less) and will probably freeze or starve to death that winter or succumb to some disease soon after that could have been cured if they all hadn't suddenly become Amish. The Cylons fly off into space and apparently never return.
I hated all the GOD DID IT ALL ALONG non-resolutions in BSG, but these last two plot points, which had basically no lolgod involvement, were the most unjustified, unsatisfying, and disappointing parts of the finale. There was no build-up to them, no explanation as to why; they just happened, because the writers wanted the humans and models on Earth and the Centurions out of the way. It was just so lazy.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 12:48 AM on October 29, 2010
And nothing of value was lost.
fuckinspaceangelsmyass
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:41 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
fuckinspaceangelsmyass
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:41 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
Another thing to keep in mind is that reportedly when it was pitched to SyFy it had nothing to do with BSG. SyFy wouldn't greenlight the series unless it had a connection to BSG. Moore et al, reluctantly threw some BSG elements in there, even though they weren't interested in telling any more BSG stories (and I would argue, hadn't been interested once the writers strike nuked the show).
So what happened was a bunch of people who liked X about BSG were disappointed when Caprica turned out to be about Y. Try watching it again, but ignore any references to BSG. Think of Caprica as an alternate America, Taurons as Latino immigrants and the monotheists as Muslims. Daniel Greystone is Steve Jobs/Bill Gates. The Adamas of Caprica have NO connection to the Adamas of BSG. I guarantee you'll get more out of the series that way.
posted by KingEdRa at 1:50 AM on October 29, 2010
So what happened was a bunch of people who liked X about BSG were disappointed when Caprica turned out to be about Y. Try watching it again, but ignore any references to BSG. Think of Caprica as an alternate America, Taurons as Latino immigrants and the monotheists as Muslims. Daniel Greystone is Steve Jobs/Bill Gates. The Adamas of Caprica have NO connection to the Adamas of BSG. I guarantee you'll get more out of the series that way.
posted by KingEdRa at 1:50 AM on October 29, 2010
It was just so lazy.
Hey, that's kinda harsh. They only 5 years to come up with suitable, makes sense ending, don't be so hard on them.
posted by nomadicink at 5:29 AM on October 29, 2010
Hey, that's kinda harsh. They only 5 years to come up with suitable, makes sense ending, don't be so hard on them.
posted by nomadicink at 5:29 AM on October 29, 2010
SyFy is all but the ghetto crackhouse of programming for NBC/Universal. Wrestling & cheesy Monster Mash-Ups are the engine that drive the channel. I'll pass, thanks.
I didn't mind the crap on SyFy when they had shows I truly enjoyed. It's a shame that they seem to be a training ground for traditional network executives trying to move up the corporate ladder.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:05 AM on October 29, 2010
I didn't mind the crap on SyFy when they had shows I truly enjoyed. It's a shame that they seem to be a training ground for traditional network executives trying to move up the corporate ladder.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:05 AM on October 29, 2010
I will defend BSG in all ways right up until the last ten minutes of the finale. The bunch of older white guys are spying on the Exploitable Natives and setting the terms for the rest of the civilization to come, all the women except the sexay robot dying or disappearing, and then everyone deciding to wander off into the wilderness and starve because technology is evil just left me irritated beyond belief. And I liked everything else, even the theology: at least it was different. I loved the opera house resolution, the whole thing, and was willing to go with the plot wherever it wandered. All I asked was an ending that made sense. Hmph.
posted by jokeefe at 9:38 AM on October 29, 2010
posted by jokeefe at 9:38 AM on October 29, 2010
Grammar fail above, sorry, coffee has been prescribed and is being ingested now.
posted by jokeefe at 9:39 AM on October 29, 2010
posted by jokeefe at 9:39 AM on October 29, 2010
Interesting note about a different ending to BSG from Ron Moore:
What about the endings that you brainstormed that didn't get made for BSG? Can you talk about those at all?posted by nomadicink at 9:44 AM on October 29, 2010
There was a different ending that we had, it was all about Ellen aboard the Colony. She was sort of turned by Cavil, because she found out that Tigh had impregnated Caprica Six, and that deeply embittered her. And she sort of became dedicated to the idea of destroying Galactica and the fleet out of revenge. And [she and Cavil] got Hera, and then the final confrontation became very personalized between Tigh versus Ellen, and should they forgive.
That was the story, generally speaking. We didn't have a lot more than just what I spun out to you, when the writer's strike hit. Over the course of the writer's strike, I rethought about it and thought, "That's not going to do it. It's not epic enough. It's not interesting enough." That's when we decided to start over, and reinvent the last arc of the show.
What.
What.
They took a story full of interpersonal conflict that had been building since the goddamned pilot, one that centred on three of the series' most nuanced characters and that resonated with the series' overall themes of parents and children, betrayal and redemption, the cycle of violence and the futility of revenge, and they threw it out the window for a nonsensical pile of bullshit because it wasn't epic enough? That's the fucking definition of epic, you assclowns.
BSG could have been remembered as a modern classic. Instead, they pissed it away so they could blow the minds of a bunch of dorm-room stoners. What an unbelievable waste.
posted by Zozo at 10:51 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
What.
They took a story full of interpersonal conflict that had been building since the goddamned pilot, one that centred on three of the series' most nuanced characters and that resonated with the series' overall themes of parents and children, betrayal and redemption, the cycle of violence and the futility of revenge, and they threw it out the window for a nonsensical pile of bullshit because it wasn't epic enough? That's the fucking definition of epic, you assclowns.
BSG could have been remembered as a modern classic. Instead, they pissed it away so they could blow the minds of a bunch of dorm-room stoners. What an unbelievable waste.
posted by Zozo at 10:51 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
It might have worked well considering Tigh's actions on New Caprica:
"I betrayed everyone to save you and you turn around and kill me? ME?! I fucked Cavil, repeatedly, so they'd stop torturing you and let you go, that should have at least bought me a goddamn thank you. And you knocked HER up?!"
"Fuck this. I don't care what it takes, I'm going to see all of you dead."
posted by nomadicink at 11:19 AM on October 29, 2010
"I betrayed everyone to save you and you turn around and kill me? ME?! I fucked Cavil, repeatedly, so they'd stop torturing you and let you go, that should have at least bought me a goddamn thank you. And you knocked HER up?!"
"Fuck this. I don't care what it takes, I'm going to see all of you dead."
posted by nomadicink at 11:19 AM on October 29, 2010
I will defend BSG in all ways right up until the last ten minutes of the finale. The bunch of older white guys are spying on the Exploitable Natives and setting the terms for the rest of the civilization to come, all the women except the sexay robot dying or disappearing, and then everyone deciding to wander off into the wilderness and starve because technology is evil just left me irritated beyond belief.
I liked what they tried to do with the ending, even though it wasn't perfectly executed. There were a few things that obviously stretched credibility. For example, you go through hell together, and you decide to just split up and go your own ways when you get to safety? Forget that, there's no way that would happen.
However, the serenity of it all at the end, in comparison to the contsant conflict from the very first episode, leaves me feeling affection for what they were trying to do, and allows me to be forgiving of some of the plot decisions. (Although not entirely. The very last shot was pretty disappointing.) It was ultimately about finding rest, more than anything else. That part felt pretty real to me, and I think it was done in a context that wouldn't have worked if they had simply found earth or something.
There are some that will continue to be so irritated that they can't forgive the plot problems, and I understand that. But it was the contrasting tone (which I thought was very well done) from the rest of the season, more than the plot issues, that allows me to reconcile myself to it.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:23 AM on October 29, 2010
I liked what they tried to do with the ending, even though it wasn't perfectly executed. There were a few things that obviously stretched credibility. For example, you go through hell together, and you decide to just split up and go your own ways when you get to safety? Forget that, there's no way that would happen.
However, the serenity of it all at the end, in comparison to the contsant conflict from the very first episode, leaves me feeling affection for what they were trying to do, and allows me to be forgiving of some of the plot decisions. (Although not entirely. The very last shot was pretty disappointing.) It was ultimately about finding rest, more than anything else. That part felt pretty real to me, and I think it was done in a context that wouldn't have worked if they had simply found earth or something.
There are some that will continue to be so irritated that they can't forgive the plot problems, and I understand that. But it was the contrasting tone (which I thought was very well done) from the rest of the season, more than the plot issues, that allows me to reconcile myself to it.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:23 AM on October 29, 2010
The ending also ignored the whole, "it has happened before and will happen again" mantra. The survivors should have done something, anything, to ensure that the megadeaths that they know have occurred at least twice before don't happen again. Abandoning high technology only so it will be developed again over the course of thousands of years does nothing to avert the cycle of conflict between AIs and humanity. All it accomplished was condemning billions of humans to short and brutal lives. The plagues (one of which killed off 1/3rd of humanity), slavery (by the Egyptians, the Romans, Americans, etc.), the Holocene extinction, resource depletion from inefficient technology, I could go on and on. All the blame is laid at the feet of our alien ancestors.
They could have at least set up a Bene Gesserit-style Missionaria Protectiva that spread a religious doctrine that would lead to us treating our future AIs better.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 2:41 PM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
They could have at least set up a Bene Gesserit-style Missionaria Protectiva that spread a religious doctrine that would lead to us treating our future AIs better.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 2:41 PM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, they could have left a message, but they renounced technology.
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on October 29, 2010
posted by Artw at 2:45 PM on October 29, 2010
The remaining episodes of "Caprica" will air on Canada's Space channel
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on November 2, 2010
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on November 2, 2010
The remaining episodes of "Caprica" will air on Canada's Space channel
Now, Canada, get with the torrenting! Seriously.
I actually really loved the first "season" of Caprica and have been disappointed since the show's return. But since it's already been canceled, why hold the rest of the eps over until 2011? I want to see them all now and then put the show behind me.
Also, Blood & Chrome? No, just no.
posted by crossoverman at 3:17 AM on November 4, 2010
Now, Canada, get with the torrenting! Seriously.
I actually really loved the first "season" of Caprica and have been disappointed since the show's return. But since it's already been canceled, why hold the rest of the eps over until 2011? I want to see them all now and then put the show behind me.
Also, Blood & Chrome? No, just no.
posted by crossoverman at 3:17 AM on November 4, 2010
« Older Take On Me. Take Me On. | Fainting Goat Kittens Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I've not kept up with the extended universe (existing and planned) of Battlestar Galactica, but a spin-off title with a subtitle that seems like it's from a sequel to The Fast and the Furious that went straight to DVD sounds like it might be a course correction too far.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:11 AM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]