Don't Sweat the Technics

October 28, 2010 5:50 PM

After 38 years in production, the Panasonic Corporation has decided to discontinue the Technics SL-1200.

The SL-1200 turntable is the industry standard for analog DJs, known for ease of use and being nearly indestructible. Over the past decade, a number of companies have begun producing digital turntables (including Technics, who introduced their digital table in 2005) that allow DJs to manipulate music in the same fashion as an audio file or from a CD, which has directly contributed to the decline in SL-1200 sales. In spite of declining turntable sales, the sale of vinyl in the US has soared over the past couple of years.

posted by orville sash (76 comments total)

The only problem with the SL-1200 is that, as a non-DJing table, it really, really sucks.

Probably there are enough of these in circulation to last a few hundred years, mainly in ex-Ravers closets.
posted by Sukiari at 5:52 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]

.

(p.s. WHAT!?!?, why would they do that?)
posted by kaiseki at 5:53 PM on October 28, 2010

I sold mine. What a terrible mistake.

(I know where it lives today and someday I will reclaim it.)
posted by nev at 5:54 PM on October 28, 2010

Should I clean out my savings start hoarding these?
posted by mullingitover at 5:55 PM on October 28, 2010

It didn't work without the Walkman, you see.
posted by Wataki at 6:03 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]

As a confused teen, me and my DJ buddy drove all the way to Toronto back in '81 to buy a heavily discounted pair of these which, while we knew they were not in the same ballpark as the SL-1200, we hoped would be reasonably reliable. We nicknamed them the SLOB300's and they worked well enough. Boy, we spun a lot of Twisted Sister and MJ on those puppies.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:04 PM on October 28, 2010

Wouldn't you still want a 1200 when you're using Final Scratch? Or does no one use Final Scratch anymore? I haven't kept up.
posted by echo target at 6:04 PM on October 28, 2010

Sounds like a rit-rit-rumor to me.
posted by orme at 6:05 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

(record-scratch SFX) ... wait, Whaaaaat?
posted by joe lisboa at 6:13 PM on October 28, 2010 [4 favorites]

.
posted by Stu-Pendous at 6:13 PM on October 28, 2010

Should I clean out my savings start hoarding these?

Nah. There's a zillion of them in the wild, people still other DJ make turntables. Some of the stuff Vestax has way more features, doesn't weigh 40 fucking pounds a piece and still works better.

And they're already increasingly rare in pro DJ cases or booths. Pretty much the only time I see them used now is for Final Scratch, Serato or Traktor Pro and people are just using them as digital DJ controllers with time-coded vinyl. They can do the same thing with a digital DJ interface or CDJs with less hassle and gear to carry around.

Unlike something like a rare piece of synthesizer kit like the TB-303 which works forever out of the box, and was a much more limited production count - the 1200 needs a support network to replace moving parts. You need vinyl. You need mixers and a lot of other investments to make it all go as a DJ rig.

The 1200 is going to go the way of reel-to-reel machines. People will still buy them used and love them for what they are, but I don't see them ever being more expensive then MSRP list prices. Sure, it may go up a bit due to well heeled collectors who just have to have a 1200 or two, but they're not really the best turntable out there.

What they are is rock solid and standardized. They're hard to break. I've seen people stand on a 1200 and turn it on. It will indeed happily try to spin a human at 33 and a third RPM and will succeed if you can keep your balance, but it'll wreck the bearings on the platter spindle. And if you learned to DJ on a pair of 1200s, chances are good the party you're going to DJ at has 1200s. They were ubiquitous.

If you really want to invest in the 1200 as a money-making scheme - I'd buy as many spare parts as you can and then sit on them for a while. In twenty years old ravers will be restoring old 1200s the way old rockers restore crappy old Fender Stratocasters. Not because they're all that good, but because it's what they learned to DJ on.
posted by loquacious at 6:14 PM on October 28, 2010 [10 favorites]

What

Again?

No

Way!
posted by empath at 6:15 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

oh sadface. I miss my old decks.
posted by elizardbits at 6:16 PM on October 28, 2010

echo - most of us with traktor/scratch are using time code CDs, single purpose control surfaces, or cdj-2000s plugged straight in over USBs.

(and while I love my cdj2000s to death that method doesn't work very with traktor yet. serato has better support already. dammit, I like traktor MUCH better but it doesn't play nice with others. Where's my goddamn live integration?)

And digital dj sets are actually relatively rare still. Most events have a bunch of djs, and swapping out the setups is a pain. I have traktor and love it, but 99% of the time use CDs

I am very very very very slowly digitizing my vinyl that I can't find digital versions of but good god is that tedious.
posted by flaterik at 6:17 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

I bought my 1200s from a guy who was going to jail, and they were 10 years old and beat to shit when I got them, and I still used them and abused them (including dropping them down a flight of stairs) for another 8 years or so before I sold them, and they're still being used nightly at the bar in DC I sold them to.
posted by empath at 6:17 PM on October 28, 2010 [6 favorites]

also: yeah, I don't believe this iteration of the rumor yet either. I've heard this almost as often as "friendster/myspace/facebook is about to start charging".
posted by flaterik at 6:18 PM on October 28, 2010

Yeah, this is bullshit. Panasonic isn't going to stop making these. They're not obsolete, more people buy them every year, particularly since with timecoded vinyl you can combine an SL1200 with the incredible breadth of an electronic library.

I want to see a press release. And then I'd like to see them actually stop. It's like the friggin' McRib; they're never going to actually retire them, they just want you to think they will. Those things are more popular now than they've ever been.
posted by koeselitz at 6:45 PM on October 28, 2010

Technics direct-drive turntables belong on that list with the Hiluxes and Swing-Aways. But for non-pro/mix/scratch/etc. applications, a Pro-Ject or Rega or Music Hall might be a better choice for similar loot.

(Vintage Technics is a great site if you're into that kind of stuff.)
posted by box at 6:52 PM on October 28, 2010

Funny coincidence: I'm writing this comment at a radio station with my laptop balanced on a Technics SL-1200MK2 right now.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:54 PM on October 28, 2010

i thought this was known months ago. no?
posted by rainperimeter at 6:56 PM on October 28, 2010

The only problem with the SL-1200 is that, as a non-DJing table, it really, really sucks.

No. Just...no. Direct Drive got a bad name in the late 70s from cheap Japanese DD tables that weren't quartz-locked and that transmitted tons of rumble straight up from the motor to the platter. They had worse specs in just about every respect than most belt drives. But the 1200 is not like these pieces of crap. It is a beautiful piece of engineering, and--I urge you to take the Pepsi challenge here--it is DEAD SILENT between tracks. Try it with headphones. Crank them up. Now try a Rega.

One of the most fickle audio purists I know is also a jazz musician and a music teacher. He owned a Rega for a while, and while he thought it sounded good, he always noticed the speed fluctuations. It never really seemed to be the right pitch, so he would adjust the speed. If he would adjust it on the first track of a record, by the end of the side, the pitch would be off again. If he adjusted it near the end of the side, the beginning of each side would be off. He had to settle for adjusting it for the middle of a side and dealing with it being slightly off at either end. These things, while difficult for me to notice, were as plain as day to a professional musician. One day he bought a Technics 1200. The next day the Rega went on Craigslist.

Audio fetishists that are too good for direct drive like to play around with old puck-drive tables like the Garrard 301 and 401, the Lencos and the Thorens TD-124. Take a look at what these things sell for on ebay. It's ridiculous. They rumble like all hell, so they build marble bases and such for them to cure them of the background noise, which never recedes to belt drive levels. Why do they do this? They're tired of the speed fluctuations of belt drive. They talk about the superior "slam" and "stability" of the puck drive, but they'll never ever touch a 1200--which solves the rumble and speed problems--because they "know" that direct drive is crap.

Granted, the 1200 isn't perfect. The tonearm could be a little better. The wiring through the tonearm could be better. But in terms of a drive system, it is as close to perfect as it gets. And the things cost--what--$600? That's a bargain.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:01 PM on October 28, 2010 [6 favorites]

Hey guys!! They're going to tax the internet!!
posted by cavalier at 7:06 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]

It is a beautiful piece of engineering

I would submit that the Technics 1200 is one of the finest pieces of equipment made for any purpose in history.

Easily up there in the top 10. Just in terms of getting the job done, reliability, durability, usability, simplicity, etc. Right up there with craftsman tools and, I dunno, the lever.
posted by empath at 7:16 PM on October 28, 2010 [7 favorites]

I mean, the damn thing came out in 1972. What else that came out in 1972 is still top of the class with minimal changes?
posted by empath at 7:18 PM on October 28, 2010

What else that came out in 1972 is still top of the class with minimal changes?

The Godfather? That's all I got.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:23 PM on October 28, 2010 [3 favorites]

Wait, now that I think of it, my receiver is a restored Sansui from around '72. I have yet to hear anything made since that sounds better to me.
posted by TrialByMedia at 7:25 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

What else that came out in 1972 is still top of the class with minimal changes?

Dita Von Teese?
posted by elizardbits at 7:28 PM on October 28, 2010 [9 favorites]

Well, maybe I need to go out and buy some finally... just in case...
posted by koeselitz at 7:41 PM on October 28, 2010

Dammit.
posted by bayani at 8:08 PM on October 28, 2010

What else that came out in 1972 is still top of the class with minimal changes?

I don't know if you'd call 'em top of the class, but I have two pairs of Advent Legacys that I listen to every day. They are mid 70's vintage and good as the day they started. Wish I could say the same about myself.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:13 PM on October 28, 2010

I'll bite: I can't stand DJs who use vinyl. There are one or two crowd-pleasing tricks that you can do with it if you're really good (and most aren't). Any DJ I've met that uses SL-1200s did so entirely for cred, or had a pair of CDJs sitting right alongside them that were used on the majority of songs.

The idea of using turntables for Final Scratch or Serato is also becoming increasingly silly, as better digital control surfaces have made it into the market. Like some here have mentioned.... the SL-1200 wasn't designed as a DJ table.

Most people don't like the sound of scratching, and computers have allowed DJs to do far more interesting things with their live performances. Although this device was an absolutely fantastic piece of engineering, I'm not sad to see it go, as it's long outlived its original purpose. It belongs in a museum, not a DJ booth.
posted by schmod at 8:39 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]

Right after posting that, I realized the perfect analogy: Polaroid Film. It's good for certain very specific artistic purposes, is severely overused by hipsters, and is completely unnecessary or inappropriate for 99% of what's being made today.
posted by schmod at 8:41 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

Stratocaster, 1950s.
posted by fourcheesemac at 8:44 PM on October 28, 2010 [2 favorites]

The idea of using turntables for Final Scratch or Serato is also becoming increasingly silly, as better digital control surfaces have made it into the market. Like some here have mentioned.... the SL-1200 wasn't designed as a DJ table.

I don't really disagree with you in principle, but in reality a lot of DJs are comfortable beatmatching on turntables, and a lot of clubs (but fewer and fewer all the time) still have turntables in the booth, so final scratch at least is going to hang around for a while. I've noticed a shift toward using CDJs with Scratch/Live recently since more clubs don't even have 1200s these days, but it's going to be a long long time before digital control surfaces become standard.

There's a different feel to turntable sets than ableton sets, too. And a lot of DJs have huge vinyl collections of obscure tracks that they haven't digitized, and even if they did, playing directly off the vinyl sounds better than a CD rip off a vinyl record.
posted by empath at 8:47 PM on October 28, 2010

Any DJ I've met that uses SL-1200s did so entirely for cred

Can't you use them because you like them? I've never done any serious DJing (and none at all for quite some time), but 1200s just feel right. I've never used a digital system that has the immediacy of real, physical vinyl.

And there's a lot of music that's never been available on anything but vinyl. Sure, you can convert it to digital, if you want to putz around with that. But who does?
posted by ixohoxi at 8:47 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

Fender Jazz Bass, 1960.
posted by Wolof at 8:51 PM on October 28, 2010

Any DJ I've met that uses SL-1200s did so entirely for cred

This might be the case now, but when I started DJing, you bought 1200s because every club you ever were going to play at had 1200s and there is nothing worse than trying to figure out the quirks of an unfamiliar turntable in 5 minutes in front of 400 drunk people.
posted by empath at 8:54 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

Guarneri del Gesù Violin, 1739
posted by jnrussell at 9:03 PM on October 28, 2010 [5 favorites]

Fair enough -- I had a feeling that my opinion wouldn't necessarily be popular. But as a sound guy, we rolled our eyes whenever a DJ requested to use the SL-1200s, particularly when it was a young guy.

I also don't disagree in principle that something about the SL-1200 just feels right. It's amazingly solid, simple, and intuitive, while the CDJ feels like a plastic toy by comparison (which is actually a sticking point with me about that particular piece of hardware -- even compared to other modern professional audio gear, almost everything about the CDJ feels cheap, which is absurd when you consider what they cost).

But, still... I maintain that this is not an inappropriate time for the sun to set on this particular piece of hardware. I'll pay my respects, and if there is a museum of DJ equipment anywhere, this should be Item #1 in their collection, right next to the TR-808.
posted by schmod at 9:03 PM on October 28, 2010

schmod, I'm a sound guy who until relatively recently requested 1200s when I was being the DJ because 95% of my music was vinyl that was not available digitally.

I'd also say that until cdj-1000s, the other control surfaces were significantly inferior. I CAN spin on most CDJs, but if I'm less than sober the 1 and 200s are just full of hell. 1200s and CDJ1000/2000s I can do just fine on in any state.
posted by flaterik at 9:09 PM on October 28, 2010

Well of course you rolled your eyes: you're a sound guy. However, a poor craftsman blames the tools.

The simple fact is that DJing vinyl changes the way the songs are played. It's the difference between playing in a rock band and playing Rock Band.

And yeah, I'm calling BS on this hoax. Whoever is gaming for click bait should have waited longer, the last attempt was only like a year and a half ago.
posted by rhizome at 9:16 PM on October 28, 2010

if this is true I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and buy one before the prices hit the roof...
posted by spish at 9:26 PM on October 28, 2010

Man if you can find a 1978 Honda CB750 that's been cared for and not dropped hard, you got yourself a masterpiece. A 1960 Les Paul, too (except for the tuning machines, gah).
posted by zoogleplex at 9:41 PM on October 28, 2010

>>What else that came out in 1972 is still top of the class with minimal changes?

>Dita Von Teese?

All of a sudden turntables are looking a lot more interesting.

Man if you can find a 1978 Honda CB750 that's been cared for and not dropped hard

Ok, I'll buy the turntable, I promise. Throw in a 1970's Landcruiser and you have a deal.
posted by Forktine at 9:46 PM on October 28, 2010

Well of course you rolled your eyes: you're a sound guy.

No (as it "not of course", I know lots of sounds guys that are either DJs are really appreciate everything a DJ does. That's why most of us in the dance music community do it)

However, a poor craftsman blames the tools.

Yes. I was flailing on the last pair of 200s I played on, but I blamed myself for being insufficiently adaptable.

The simple fact is that DJing vinyl changes the way the songs are played.

Vs some things, not other.s

It's the difference between playing in a rock band and playing Rock Band.

Not in most cases I encounter in the real world.

Except those guys who had a single track laid out in ableton, hit play, and then played with knobs. That was wankery.
posted by flaterik at 10:35 PM on October 28, 2010

Sitting on my older brother's shelf in his home is a Technics 1200 my father bought brand new in 1972. I happened to have the rest of the very formidable stereo that was bought back then. But that technics? Never will my brother hand it down. So congratulations to him.

I am bummed that the article went strictly with the DJ reference. I wonder if the brand and label will go through a sale and rebrand much like polaroid. If it does, then whoever buys it better leave the marketable parts intact.
posted by captainsohler at 10:36 PM on October 28, 2010

The 1200 does have a bit of a cult following among audiophiles and there's a few companies (such as KAB Electro Acoustics) that sell them tricked out with various upgrades--rewiring the tonearm, improved power supply etc. As a Rega owner, I envy the 1200's ability to go from 33 1/3 to 45 to 78 with the flip of a switch (not to mention the ability to maintain those speeds consistently.) Switching to 45rpm on my table requires removing the platter and manually adjusting the belt, and I can't play a 78 at all.
posted by Lorin at 12:00 AM on October 29, 2010

Boo. If this is true then I'm almost regretting giving my pair away this past summer. They still work like new after 12 years, but have been collecting dust the past few, so I passed them on to a friend who will hopefully give them more use than I could.
posted by p3t3 at 2:04 AM on October 29, 2010

Truth, Justice, and the Technics SL-1200
posted by Lanark at 2:24 AM on October 29, 2010

.
posted by alby at 2:46 AM on October 29, 2010

As the poster of this thread, I would like nothing more than for this to not be true. I must have missed it the last time around, so I didn't come to it with built-in bullshit detection.

As for Schmod's point - I've been collecting records since I started to listen to music, like as a little kid, and it just so happened that at every pivotal moment that I considered crossing over to CDs or MP3s permanently, I would receive a windfall of new records that would convince me to stick with them. By this point, I have a couple thousand records, and my happiness with my record collection outweighs the difficulty of DJing vinyl (see my last couple of askmes)

I got my Technics (an MK2 and an M3D) in 2003, when a friend of a friend decided he needed the money to buy an engagement ring. The marriage has since come and gone, but the Technics, barring small technical issues once every couple of years, have been working great.
posted by orville sash at 3:29 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]

Truth, Justice, and the Technics SL-1200

Obviously, this guy prefers the sound of the Rega, and that's fine. It's a very popular turntable for a reason. But I really get sick of audiophiles comparing belt drive to direct drive and chalking up all of the differences to the drive system. For example, comparing a 1200 to a Rega is very difficult because they have two different tonearms. Using the same cartridge on both won't do you any good because a cartridge needs to have its specs matched pretty closely to the characteristics of the tonearm. The only way to do it properly is to mount a Rega RB-300 arm on a Technics (which is definitely possible).

I guess I should have added to my statement above about the 1200 that I don't have an axe to grind against belt drive tables themselves. I have a (belt drive) Thorens and love it, for example. I was just trying to counter the old audiophile "Technics really, really sucks" myth. A drive system is supposed to do one thing: Spin the platter at the proper speed and do it without excessive vibration. The Technics does this better than just about any other table out there today.
posted by TrialByMedia at 4:27 AM on October 29, 2010

I'll bite: I can't stand DJs who use vinyl. There are one or two crowd-pleasing tricks that you can do with it if you're really good (and most aren't). Any DJ I've met that uses SL-1200s did so entirely for cred

I exclusively use vinyl when I'm DJing. It's not for cred. I'm not using any stupid crowd pleasing tricks. I just own lots of records. And aside from the issue of records being heavy, I can't think of a reason why I'd swap to CDs or MP3s. The tactile feel of the 1200s feels natural to me in a way that the CDJs or whatever new laptop controller you have doesn't. Packing a record bag with vinyl helps me sort out my set. I collect a lot of music from decades past, which I can find more easily on 12" than MP3. And while you've got your fair share of problems with vinyl in terms of dodgy needles and badly balanced decks, in my experience the laptop and CDJ users have a similar amount of issues with bad kit in the field.

12" plus 1200 just works. DJs will still be using Technics in 10, 20, 30 years time.

Plus, in terms of hi-fi sound quality, a 1200 with a quality cartridge is every bit as good as belt drive hi-fi deck. I've got a Pro-Ject Debut and I'd be hard pushed to tell them apart. The Pro-Ject even came with the same Ortofon stylus as is on the Technics.
posted by iivix at 5:39 AM on October 29, 2010

Whether this is true or just a rumor, anybody with a pile of vinyl is going to get nervous when either a. great affordable tables like this one actually do get discontinued, or even b. rumors about it start to gain credibility. Well, I guess it has to happen someday. I'm grateful to the hiphop/scratching/DJ community for having provided one last market for these things and kept them available for less than lunatic-audiophile prices way past the day when other comparable analog devices went off to the same pasture where the horses that used to pull trolley cars are grazing. (fuller imagines ghostly SL-1200s cavorting with Revox reel-to-reels, Leica M3s, Douglas DC3s and the like here.)
posted by jfuller at 6:09 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]

*wikiwikiwiki*
posted by stormpooper at 7:28 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]

CITATION NEEDED

Also, pics or it didn't happen.
posted by mikeh at 7:31 AM on October 29, 2010

Hip-hop mourns.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:35 AM on October 29, 2010

Random musing: Is this why all DJ hardware uses Phono/RCA inputs, rather than XLR, which is ubiquitous everywhere else in the world of pro audio? I can't even begin to fathom how much nicer the world would be if we all used balanced inputs...

_{buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz}
posted by schmod at 7:43 AM on October 29, 2010 [2 favorites]

Yes.

Though I think digital will be used before XLR for input. It's better than carrying the signal with analog from your laptop to the mixer.
posted by empath at 7:49 AM on October 29, 2010

schmod: “I'll bite: I can't stand DJs who use vinyl. There are one or two crowd-pleasing tricks that you can do with it if you're really good (and most aren't). Any DJ I've met that uses SL-1200s did so entirely for cred, or had a pair of CDJs sitting right alongside them that were used on the majority of songs.”

Dude, what? This is bullshit. First of all, how in god's name do you expect people to get good if, by your apparent estimation, DJs aren't supposed to do it until they're amazing at it?

Second of all, "one or two crowd-pleasing tricks" doesn't even begin to cover it. Yeah, I'm well aware that the turntablism movement is the main point of contact for most people's awareness of the turntable arts, and I know that the fancy-shmancy hip-hop scratching tricks and juggling and all that are the most obvious thing people think of when they think of the turntable as an instrument. And yeah... that can be gimmicky. (Although I'd argue that it has its artistry, too.)

But that is by far not the only kind of artistry displayed on the Technics turntable. One kind you seem to be completely ignoring is techno. Yeah, techno. Techno is in many ways a vinyl-based music – it was when it started in Detroit, and it still is for a lot of people. Watch the greatest techno DJ of all time, Jeff Mills. That's artistry with a set of turntables. And it has nothing to do with the "crowd-pleasing tricks" you're talking about, the "wicka-wicka" shit – he's doing back-scratches, precise matching, careful mixing: and these things are all things that can be accomplished with amazing fluidity with the SL1200. They are not simply parlor tricks. They influenced music in a zillion ways over the last forty years, and all of it for the better.

“Most people don't like the sound of scratching, and computers have allowed DJs to do far more interesting things with their live performances.”

I would like to see evidence for this claim. Please show me video of a DJ that is "far more interesting" than Jeff Mills or a dozen other DJs I could adduce that use or used vinyl. I'm serious. It doesn't mean computers are more or less useful than turntables, but I think your claim about "far more interesting things" is simply factually incorrect.
posted by koeselitz at 8:24 AM on October 29, 2010 [6 favorites]

Re: veracity - as noted above, it's a rumour that pops up with all the regularity of "Facebook to cost £5/mo soon!!!1!!" and every time so far it's turned out to be nonsense. The fact that it's on gizmodo doesn't exactly encourage me. And someone on a dance music forum I frequent claimed to have rung Panasonic (in EU or US I think) and been told it's a hoax.

But then a second person claimed to have rung Panasonic in Japan, and had it confirmed.

Any Japanese speakers here? Apparently this page confirms it - "生産終了 = end of production", but I have no way of knowing if that's true.

On one level I can't say I care, personally: even when I use(d) vinyl decks - which wasn't/isn't often, especially these days - I preferred Vestax. On the other hand it's definitely an icon of both music/culture and industrial design, so I tip my hat respectfully at its passing.
posted by Slyfen at 8:47 AM on October 29, 2010

Breathe in. Breathe out. I'm not calling you a bad person. I just don't happen to like 90% of the vinyl-based DJs that I've seen, including Jeff Mills, mkay?

I respect that my musical tastes might not necessarily match up with yours. I also don't like Jazz, but certainly don't take a "holier than thou" approach toward jazz musicians and their listeners.

My main gripe with performing vinyl DJs is that they're often not very good at it, and play boring music as a result. When I see a live band, I don't pay to see a guy who's only just learning how to play the guitar, and I expect the same level of professionalism from DJs. A performer's job is first and foremost to entertain his audience -- A few years ago, I saw these guys literally empty a sold-out 1300-person room during their performance, because they decided to spin some "legitimate techno" on vinyl, instead of their normal cheese-pop routine. On a technical level, they were actually quite good, but they didn't play the show that the crowd came to see, and everybody left. Needless to say, the promoters were pissed.
posted by schmod at 9:42 AM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]

I have never heard of those guys.

Meanwhile, I've seen DJs reduce crowds of thousands of people to screaming puddles of ecstasy with nothing but a pair of 1200s and a mixer, and not even doing anything special, besides playing music. It's not the tools, it's the artist.
posted by empath at 9:58 AM on October 29, 2010

Best turntable ever made. I still have mine, for my home system, and it still works like a charm.
posted by Seekerofsplendor at 10:17 AM on October 29, 2010

Dude, what? This is bullshit. First of all, how in god's name do you expect people to get good if, by your apparent estimation, DJs aren't supposed to do it until they're amazing at it?

Most people learn their craft in private, not on stage. Just a thought.
posted by Dark Messiah at 11:33 AM on October 29, 2010 [2 favorites]

schmod: "My main gripe with performing vinyl DJs is that they're often not very good at it"

Since you just said you don't like 90% of "vinyl-based" DJ music anyway, I'm not sure what exactly we're supposed to draw from this.
posted by rhizome at 12:37 PM on October 29, 2010

Most people learn their craft in private, not on stage. Just a thought.

It's vastly different mixing in your bedroom than it is mixing at a club. You wouldn't think so, but trust me, it is. Just at a start, did you know that there's a several second delay between what you play on a mixer and what you hear on the dance floor? You won't be reproducing that at home. Did you know that a full dance floor absorbs high frequency sound and that you need to adjust the EQs accordingly as the night goes on? Do you know how to gracefully handle a request that you have no intention of playing? Do you know how to switch DJs without stopping the music? Do you know what to do if you play the first record and clear the dance floor? Etc, and so on. The only way to learn is to learn by doing. Even if you're just talking about scratching technique -- you can do the most awesome shit in the world and be technically flawless, but still bomb when doing it for the wrong crowd. It takes years of playing in front of crowds before you learn these things. It's not something that comes naturally or comes with practice.
posted by empath at 12:52 PM on October 29, 2010 [2 favorites]

Seconding empath. Being able to play music well at home barely translates to being on stage at all. The rumble coming up through the floor. The parade of friends that need to say hi RIGHT THIS SECOND while you're in the middle of a mix. The L channel on the R deck going wonky, and the sound guy set up the bass in mono so every time that happens you lose the kick and no one is looking at it so you're wiggling the cable while trying to keep the mix going, etc etc etc
posted by flaterik at 1:05 PM on October 29, 2010 [2 favorites]

Dark Messiah: “Most people learn their craft in private, not on stage. Just a thought.”

True, but variance in quality is indicative of diversity, which is a good thing. I mean, a person living in Manhattan in 1955 could've complained that the vast majority of music heard in bars was awful, and that lots of hacks were getting paid to plink away on pianos and blow saxophones that sounded like dying ostriches. Horrible stuff, yeah. Just terrible. Except that industry meant that dozens of the greatest musicians that ever lived were supported through their most productive years. In the end, it's just music; and the thing about live music is, if you don't like it, you can just walk away. Personally I'm pretty happy about most live music being played in public, and about most people who get paid to play it. I'm glad that stuff is still happening. It means the good ones still have room to practice their trade.

schmod: “Breathe in. Breathe out. I'm not calling you a bad person. I just don't happen to like 90% of the vinyl-based DJs that I've seen, including Jeff Mills, mkay? I respect that my musical tastes might not necessarily match up with yours.”

(Sorry; it's sort of how I talk here. No offense intended.)

“I also don't like Jazz, but certainly don't take a "holier than thou" approach toward jazz musicians and their listeners.”

(Oh – heh. Were you around for that conversation, too?)

“My main gripe with performing vinyl DJs is that they're often not very good at it, and play boring music as a result. When I see a live band, I don't pay to see a guy who's only just learning how to play the guitar, and I expect the same level of professionalism from DJs. A performer's job is first and foremost to entertain his audience -- A few years ago, I saw these guys literally empty a sold-out 1300-person room during their performance, because they decided to spin some "legitimate techno" on vinyl, instead of their normal cheese-pop routine. On a technical level, they were actually quite good, but they didn't play the show that the crowd came to see, and everybody left. Needless to say, the promoters were pissed.”

I understand somewhat, and I agree in part. However, a couple of things: first, like I said, I support the music, and I'm glad it's out there, even though I despise a lot of the same stuff I think you do. Second, yes, I agree that being a DJ means something like playing a guitar. You're performing for an audience. But I'm pretty sure we successfully shattered the expectations concerning how a guitar 'ought' to be played onstage a little over three decades ago, and have been doing it since. Punk rock meant lots of things. One of those things is: 'professionalism' and 'artistic dignity' are not necessarily the same things as musicianship.
posted by koeselitz at 1:31 PM on October 29, 2010

The parade of friends that need to say hi RIGHT THIS SECOND while you're in the middle of a mix. The L channel on the R deck going wonky, and the sound guy set up the bass in mono so every time that happens you lose the kick and no one is looking at it so you're wiggling the cable while trying to keep the mix going, etc etc etc

My favorite thing was a loose cable that was causing half the speakers to go out every other record I played. The sound guy came in the booth, lifted the mixer up, jiggled the cable, got the sound working, and then slammed the mixer down as I was in the middle of mixing two songs, causing a record to skip, causing a horrific trainwreck, while I was being broadcast live on XM radio, and playing to a sold out crowd, and my family was in the balcony.

A less experienced, but very well practiced me would have tried valiantly to rescue the mix, enduring the 20 seconds of trainwrecking so I could recover the perfect transition I had planned out days in advance, while everyone around groaned and the vibe on the dance floor died... The experienced me slammed the crossfader over, backspinned one of the records and threw my hands in the air like I had meant to mix it that way all along, and people cheered.

That's the kind of thing that practice at home won't prepare you for.
posted by empath at 3:12 PM on October 29, 2010 [2 favorites]

schmod: "Random musing: Is this why all DJ hardware uses Phono/RCA inputs, rather than XLR, which is ubiquitous everywhere else in the world of pro audio? I can't even begin to fathom how much nicer the world would be if we all used balanced inputs..."

We do, we just don't require them of the turntable because it's just going to plug into a mixer anyway. You can get all the benefits of a balanced signal path by having everything grounded to a mixer that has balanced and/or XLR outputs. Any club/installation mixer will have balanced outs.
posted by rhizome at 3:20 PM on October 29, 2010

My favorite thing was a loose cable that was causing half the speakers to go out every other record I played. The sound guy came in the booth, lifted the mixer up, jiggled the cable, got the sound working, and then slammed the mixer down as I was in the middle of mixing two songs, causing a record to skip, causing a horrific trainwreck, while I was being broadcast live on XM radio, and playing to a sold out crowd, and my family was in the balcony.

Good god.

I've swapped out all sorts of things while a DJ is playing - replacing turntables or CDJs, adding a traktor setup, moving an output from on to another, and I've never messed up a mix. I always wait until a track is fully mixed out and the DJ is doing something else, and/or do once channel at a time if absolutely necessary.

You'd think that would be part of being a sound guy for DJs.

But yeah, learning to deal with idiotic moves like that is part of what you can't learn at home.
posted by flaterik at 4:19 PM on October 29, 2010

Anybody who gives a shit is using outboard drive these days.
posted by Sukiari at 10:55 PM on October 29, 2010

Last night's "things that don't happen while you're playing at home" included no monitors (small system, just playing right between the speakers), one woofer that I think was about to go completely, wonky gain structure so it was really hard to tell by metering alone how far I could push it, the next DJ setting up a digital rig while I played my last few tracks, and lots of even-more-distractingly-than-normal dressed girls dancing in front of me (hey it was a halloween party).
posted by flaterik at 6:31 PM on October 30, 2010

It looks like the rumor is true
posted by orville sash at 9:53 PM on November 18, 2010

I used to own one of those SL-1200 Technics turntables, but then gave it to my younger cousin as a gift for his graduation. Now that most of the favorite DJ turntable lines are out of production, I think it will be quite a lucrative business to start collecting the remaining used Technics keyboard models - my prediction is that there would be a growing interest for them in the new future, since those are becoming sort of antique collector items in addition to their sound mixing value. There are few flying around every now and then on ebay, have bee thinking of getting my hand on a few of them, but the budget is really tight for me at the moment, after having lost my job last year.
posted by MikeJc at 6:52 PM on November 21, 2010