US out, UN in. Out, in, out, in.
February 27, 2005 4:56 PM Subscribe
I'm sure it's just a few bad apples.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:26 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Space Coyote at 5:26 PM on February 27, 2005
PS. this was worth a MeFi post?
posted by Space Coyote at 5:27 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Space Coyote at 5:27 PM on February 27, 2005
Fratboy hijinks.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:33 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:33 PM on February 27, 2005
There's a serious post to be made on the ongoing problems associated with peacekeeping operations, and the potential for exploitation and abuse of the vulnerable. This isn't it, though.
posted by riviera at 6:04 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by riviera at 6:04 PM on February 27, 2005
This is a total troll. The article doesn't even come close to the spin the FPP puts on it. Its vaguely about trying to sort out the prosecution and prevention issues when deal with other nations soldiers. It is not about the U.N. sanctioning rape.
posted by srboisvert at 6:13 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by srboisvert at 6:13 PM on February 27, 2005
Pot remarking on the exterior shade of kettle. While the issue is something on which to remark, the article in this FPP post indicates that, somehow, this is tacitly tolerated by the UN. Meanwhile, our own forces (who are practically immune from prosecution or even comment by other nations) torture, rape, and kill the citizens of other countries.
If we're going to comment on this mote in the UN's eye as a nation, we should probably do something about the beam in our own.
posted by FormlessOne at 6:35 PM on February 27, 2005
If we're going to comment on this mote in the UN's eye as a nation, we should probably do something about the beam in our own.
posted by FormlessOne at 6:35 PM on February 27, 2005
Americans should shut the fuck up about widespread rape that apparently exists in *every* UN mission worldwide. Okay then. I take it you were first in line to express your shock when the Abu Ghraib stories surfaced. This is indeed a case of pot and kettle, but in more ways than one.
Since I am not an American citizen or resident, however, let me express my disgust and hope that punishment for this will travel right up the chain of irresponsible command, though I am sure it won't.
Widespread rape? Oil for food? Nothing more than a "mote in the eye," folks.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:49 PM on February 27, 2005
Since I am not an American citizen or resident, however, let me express my disgust and hope that punishment for this will travel right up the chain of irresponsible command, though I am sure it won't.
Widespread rape? Oil for food? Nothing more than a "mote in the eye," folks.
posted by Krrrlson at 6:49 PM on February 27, 2005
Yeah cause guys getting piled in a naked pyramid or being forced to masturbate is comparable to rape.
posted by TetrisKid at 7:16 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by TetrisKid at 7:16 PM on February 27, 2005
Yeah cause guys getting piled in a naked pyramid or being forced to masturbate is comparable to rape.
Ignorant much?
posted by Space Coyote at 7:40 PM on February 27, 2005
Ignorant much?
posted by Space Coyote at 7:40 PM on February 27, 2005
You have to give TetrisKid credit for choosing a username that perfectly reflects the depth of his opinions.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:59 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Armitage Shanks at 7:59 PM on February 27, 2005
Playing the "B-b-but Abu Ghraib!" card whenever the UN gangrapes little children is pretty fucking classy.
posted by techgnollogic at 8:03 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by techgnollogic at 8:03 PM on February 27, 2005
Not my idea of a good FPP but to say that no American service personnel are being brought up on charges and convicted for atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan is wrong and just as much of a troll. In today's paper alone there was a major article on significant criminal investigations by the Dept. of Justice into CIA interrogations and extranational imprisonments, so this isn't over by a long shot. Are the investigations and indictments going as high up the ladder as one might hope? Not in my eyes, but that's a different FPP.
posted by billsaysthis at 8:05 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by billsaysthis at 8:05 PM on February 27, 2005
whenever the UN gangrapes little children is pretty fucking classy.
hee.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:16 PM on February 27, 2005
hee.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:16 PM on February 27, 2005
I would like to see my good friend matteo to come in here and explain how Isramericanazis are to blame for this. He always makes it a point to be outraged at the outrageous lack of outrage from "our resident right-wingers."
posted by Krrrlson at 8:57 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Krrrlson at 8:57 PM on February 27, 2005
Nothing like a preemptive gratuitous personal attack on another member, eh, Krrlson ?
posted by y2karl at 9:02 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by y2karl at 9:02 PM on February 27, 2005
Yes, there's so much fucking class on display here. Sewer class.
There's an ongoing problem with peacekeeping, because soldiers (or military contractors) and vulnerable people don't mix. Aid agencies can do that job, with adequate protection; but they need separation from the people with guns. You want peacekeepers with specific training and experience, especially at the command level; but ideally you want ones from that region: the two don't often come together.
The UN has an ongoing problem with getting commitments to peacekeeping in regions where there's little political incentive for the more powerful member states; the result is that forces are often smaller and made up of under-trained troops from developing countries that are basically doing it for the money. (That's why jfuller's disgusting title also sets up a crass false dichotomy: most UN peacekeepers are from the 'third world'.) The Wikipedia article is pretty decent on this: Americans may be surprised how many US troops are currently on peacekeeping duty. I note the following:
The approved peacekeeping budget for the year 2004-2005 is $2.80 billion. However, with the additional requirements of the new and recently expanded missions, as well as the possibility of a new mission in Sudan, that amount could grow by a further $2.38 billion. All Member States are legally obliged to pay their share of peacekeeping costs under a complex formula that they themselves have established. Despite this legal obligation, Member States owed approximately $1.20 billion in current and back peacekeeping dues as of June 2004.
$2.8 billion, divided among 56,000 troops in sixteen missions... well, compare those numbers to the ongoing cost to the World's Best-Equipped Military™ in its current missions. Throw in the well-documented effects of peacekeeping on combat troops -- most notably, the desire to take out the frustration of not being able to fire in anger in a hostile environment -- and it's not pretty.
(More here.)
It's a disgusting, depressing picture. But techgnollogic? Grab a fucking blue beret and ship the fuck out to Africa, you twat. And take jfuller with you.
posted by riviera at 9:26 PM on February 27, 2005
There's an ongoing problem with peacekeeping, because soldiers (or military contractors) and vulnerable people don't mix. Aid agencies can do that job, with adequate protection; but they need separation from the people with guns. You want peacekeepers with specific training and experience, especially at the command level; but ideally you want ones from that region: the two don't often come together.
The UN has an ongoing problem with getting commitments to peacekeeping in regions where there's little political incentive for the more powerful member states; the result is that forces are often smaller and made up of under-trained troops from developing countries that are basically doing it for the money. (That's why jfuller's disgusting title also sets up a crass false dichotomy: most UN peacekeepers are from the 'third world'.) The Wikipedia article is pretty decent on this: Americans may be surprised how many US troops are currently on peacekeeping duty. I note the following:
The approved peacekeeping budget for the year 2004-2005 is $2.80 billion. However, with the additional requirements of the new and recently expanded missions, as well as the possibility of a new mission in Sudan, that amount could grow by a further $2.38 billion. All Member States are legally obliged to pay their share of peacekeeping costs under a complex formula that they themselves have established. Despite this legal obligation, Member States owed approximately $1.20 billion in current and back peacekeeping dues as of June 2004.
$2.8 billion, divided among 56,000 troops in sixteen missions... well, compare those numbers to the ongoing cost to the World's Best-Equipped Military™ in its current missions. Throw in the well-documented effects of peacekeeping on combat troops -- most notably, the desire to take out the frustration of not being able to fire in anger in a hostile environment -- and it's not pretty.
(More here.)
It's a disgusting, depressing picture. But techgnollogic? Grab a fucking blue beret and ship the fuck out to Africa, you twat. And take jfuller with you.
posted by riviera at 9:26 PM on February 27, 2005
One problem with South Africans: There is a prevalent myth here that sex with virgins is a cure for AIDS. The result is prevalent child rape. I don't know if this myth is limited to a specific tribe here, or whether it extends to other African nations. I can see this might affect the behavior of any troops SA supplies.
posted by Goofyy at 9:42 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by Goofyy at 9:42 PM on February 27, 2005
Nothing like a preemptive gratuitous personal attack on another member, eh, Krrlson ?
Nothing like it indeed, my passive aggressive pal. Sincerely, KKKrlson.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:52 PM on February 27, 2005
Nothing like it indeed, my passive aggressive pal. Sincerely, KKKrlson.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:52 PM on February 27, 2005
Oh, and thanks for that link title, jfuller, you sick cunt.
posted by riviera at 10:04 PM on February 27, 2005
posted by riviera at 10:04 PM on February 27, 2005
How much would it cost to train UN peacekeepers to not fuck children, riviera? Poor underfunded third world peacekeepers :(
Oh wait: Didier Bourguet, a U.N. official from France, is pictured here in an image found on his hard drive, which was obtained by ABC News. Also on the hard drive were thousands of photos of him having sex with hundreds of young Congolese girls.
posted by techgnollogic at 10:15 PM on February 27, 2005
Oh wait: Didier Bourguet, a U.N. official from France, is pictured here in an image found on his hard drive, which was obtained by ABC News. Also on the hard drive were thousands of photos of him having sex with hundreds of young Congolese girls.
posted by techgnollogic at 10:15 PM on February 27, 2005
God, the UN's very existence really twists a lot of pigs ears here on MeFi, doesn't it?
oh, and what riviera said, as always. especially the "sick cunt" part, of course -- this post's title is pretty fucking tasteless jfuller. you know, I understand all the fascist vermin's glee here -- after all, since Abu Ghraib, they've had quite a shit-smeared chip on their shoulder when nonconsensual assfucking is involved -- but jfuller, I was under the impression you were marginally better than your zero-content, trolling, sadistic buddies here on MeFi.
luckily, I was wrong.
posted by matteo at 12:26 AM on February 28, 2005
oh, and what riviera said, as always. especially the "sick cunt" part, of course -- this post's title is pretty fucking tasteless jfuller. you know, I understand all the fascist vermin's glee here -- after all, since Abu Ghraib, they've had quite a shit-smeared chip on their shoulder when nonconsensual assfucking is involved -- but jfuller, I was under the impression you were marginally better than your zero-content, trolling, sadistic buddies here on MeFi.
luckily, I was wrong.
posted by matteo at 12:26 AM on February 28, 2005
I cannot get over how the American Right hate the UN with such a passion.
People, the UN is not a world government with it's own world military force. It is entirely dependent on member nations to provide peacekeeping forces. The UN itself has no authority to prosecute troops - that is the responsibility of the country which provided the troops. All this article is saying is that the UN is preparing to get much tougher with those countries which are not doing just that.
jfuller, you should be ashamed of yourself for that headline.
tech-no-logic, where have you been? After months of telling us how well things were going in Iraq you disappeared just when all the news reports seemed to suggest that ...er, things weren't quite so rosy after all.
posted by salmacis at 2:55 AM on February 28, 2005
People, the UN is not a world government with it's own world military force. It is entirely dependent on member nations to provide peacekeeping forces. The UN itself has no authority to prosecute troops - that is the responsibility of the country which provided the troops. All this article is saying is that the UN is preparing to get much tougher with those countries which are not doing just that.
jfuller, you should be ashamed of yourself for that headline.
tech-no-logic, where have you been? After months of telling us how well things were going in Iraq you disappeared just when all the news reports seemed to suggest that ...er, things weren't quite so rosy after all.
posted by salmacis at 2:55 AM on February 28, 2005
Don't apologize, riviera. jfuller obviously got a big kick out of all this, as is evident from his tedious "levity" in the post and title.
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:51 AM on February 28, 2005
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:51 AM on February 28, 2005
And while the UN does 0, or actually makes things worse, the Bush Administration's progressive foreign policy claims yet another victory.
I truly hope Washington defunds the UN. Let the competent people join a new organization. Let Annan and his Euro-scum and econowhores go on trial.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:16 PM on February 28, 2005
I truly hope Washington defunds the UN. Let the competent people join a new organization. Let Annan and his Euro-scum and econowhores go on trial.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:16 PM on February 28, 2005
I cannot get over how the American Right hate the UN with such a passion.
Fortunately, getting over how the American Left hates the American Right with such a passion is pretty easy, right?
posted by Krrrlson at 4:45 PM on February 28, 2005
Fortunately, getting over how the American Left hates the American Right with such a passion is pretty easy, right?
posted by Krrrlson at 4:45 PM on February 28, 2005
It seems foreign soldiers rape women, regardless of whether left or right wants to see them shipped out. Another reason to be wary of using military solutions to political problems.
posted by eustatic at 6:20 PM on February 28, 2005
posted by eustatic at 6:20 PM on February 28, 2005
"People, the UN is not a world government with it's own world military force"- is so, except they eat dead babies too.
posted by troutfishing at 10:55 PM on March 5, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 10:55 PM on March 5, 2005
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posted by goodglovin77 at 5:22 PM on February 27, 2005