Banks considering capping debit card transactions
March 10, 2011 7:52 PM Subscribe
Obvious scare tactic to sabotage Dodd-Frank. Doing this would fuck the economy.
posted by bukharin at 7:55 PM on March 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
Fatllama considering capping the number of accounts with Chase at 0.
posted by fatllama at 7:55 PM on March 10, 2011 [88 favorites]
posted by fatllama at 7:55 PM on March 10, 2011 [88 favorites]
Wouldn't this just trigger a massive stampede of consumers to other banks?
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm a little confused as to why I would be restricted in the use of my own fucking money.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [36 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [36 favorites]
Pull the other one.
posted by enn at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by enn at 7:56 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wait, so they want us to use cash and cheques again? I'm confused. I thought they were really into this whole digital no-paper brave new world marketplace.
posted by TwelveTwo at 7:58 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by TwelveTwo at 7:58 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wow, the crazy just does not stop today.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
Good. Let them. Every grocery store, bodega, liquor store and gas station will simply post a sign indicating that they no longer accept transactions from JP Morgan issued cards. Credit unions, smaller banks, and JP Morgan's competitors will start advertising "No Debit Card Caps!"
And that whooshing sound you hear? Thats the millions of JP Morgan (and any other big bank who tries to join them) customers closing their accounts and moving on to friendlier financial institutions.
posted by Chrischris at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
And that whooshing sound you hear? Thats the millions of JP Morgan (and any other big bank who tries to join them) customers closing their accounts and moving on to friendlier financial institutions.
posted by Chrischris at 8:00 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
friendlier financial institutions
Aside from credit unions, I'm almost positive there's no such thing.
posted by killdevil at 8:01 PM on March 10, 2011 [17 favorites]
Aside from credit unions, I'm almost positive there's no such thing.
posted by killdevil at 8:01 PM on March 10, 2011 [17 favorites]
I have to wonder though, assuming someone qualifies for credit cards, is there any real reason to keep a debit card in your wallet besides ATM transactions? If you pay your bills on time you get to keep the cash in your checking account for ~20 days (I think most grace periods are about that) longer for emergencies at no cost, with better fraud protection and usually some kind of reward system that can give you a percent or two cash back.
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets, while the debit card is a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
posted by TwelveTwo at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [74 favorites]
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets, while the debit card is a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
posted by TwelveTwo at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [74 favorites]
Wouldn't the obvious reason to do this be that you want to get people addicted to those sweet, sweet credit cards again?
Whatevs. I put it all in a mayonaise jar behind my house these days. Next to the bodies.
posted by bardic at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Whatevs. I put it all in a mayonaise jar behind my house these days. Next to the bodies.
posted by bardic at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
FORCED TO CARRY LARGE WADS OF CASH, THOUSANDS OF CHASE CUSTOMERS MUGGED OUTSIDE OF COSTCO. STORY AT 11.
posted by phunniemee at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:02 PM on March 10, 2011 [12 favorites]
Chase has sent me a "$100-$125 Free for Opening a Checking Account" junkmail every few weeks for the last year. In my copious spare time, I read the fine print, and the offer gets less attractive every time. The monthly fee on the account has grown from $6 to $10, they've eliminated a deal waiving the fee if you make 5 debit card purchases, etc. etc. I never was tempted even by their 'best' offer.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
TwelveTwo: "Wait, so they want us to use cash and cheques again? I'm confused. I thought they were really into this whole digital no-paper brave new world marketplace"
No, they want you to run multiple debit transactions to make up for the shortfall from credit card revenues.
posted by pwnguin at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
No, they want you to run multiple debit transactions to make up for the shortfall from credit card revenues.
posted by pwnguin at 8:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
It will never happen, it'd be far too disruptive. It's an empty threat.
Dodd-Frank dared to wave a limp stick at our corporate overlords, and the gods are angry.
posted by bukharin at 8:04 PM on March 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
"I'm a little confused as to why I would be restricted in the use of my own fucking money."
Try presenting a check written by a Chase customer to you, a non-Chase customer, at a Chase bank.
It's your fucking money. But they won't cash it unless you pay them a $6 fee. For your fucking money.
I figured a late night bowling ball tossed from a moving vehicle through a plate glass window at Chase bank would give me my $6 worth of satisfaction.
posted by Xoebe at 8:05 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
Try presenting a check written by a Chase customer to you, a non-Chase customer, at a Chase bank.
It's your fucking money. But they won't cash it unless you pay them a $6 fee. For your fucking money.
I figured a late night bowling ball tossed from a moving vehicle through a plate glass window at Chase bank would give me my $6 worth of satisfaction.
posted by Xoebe at 8:05 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
killdevil wrote: "Aside from credit unions, I'm almost positive there's no such thing."
My bank is friendlier than any of the local credit unions. They process transactions in a way that's usually beneficial to the customer or at worst neutral and have one of the lowest overdraft fees anywhere. An aberration to be sure. And the basic checking account has no monthly fee or minimum balance, even without direct deposit.
This trial balloon will be shot down by tomorrow. Even Chase isn't this dumb. BoA, I could believe.
posted by wierdo at 8:07 PM on March 10, 2011
My bank is friendlier than any of the local credit unions. They process transactions in a way that's usually beneficial to the customer or at worst neutral and have one of the lowest overdraft fees anywhere. An aberration to be sure. And the basic checking account has no monthly fee or minimum balance, even without direct deposit.
This trial balloon will be shot down by tomorrow. Even Chase isn't this dumb. BoA, I could believe.
posted by wierdo at 8:07 PM on March 10, 2011
People really shouldn't be using debit cards anyway. Many of the protections that protect you for credit cards (for instance, limited liability capped at $50 in case of theft or misuse) don't apply to debit cards. Plus the rewards and bonuses (if applicable) are almost always better with credit.
If you can get a credit card and trust yourself to use it responsibly, use that instead...
posted by gerryblog at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you can get a credit card and trust yourself to use it responsibly, use that instead...
posted by gerryblog at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
I guarantee you, the first time a consumer feels the embarrassment of having a debit card declined (even if they have other cards in their wallet or purse to pay with) when they know they have enough to cover the transaction, exploring alternative financial institutions will become priority number one.
I would think it would be the first rule of bank marketing: DO NOT cause your customer social embarressment or undue anxiety when it comes to public financial transactions.
posted by Chrischris at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
I would think it would be the first rule of bank marketing: DO NOT cause your customer social embarressment or undue anxiety when it comes to public financial transactions.
posted by Chrischris at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
Puzzle, use cash, use credit, use debit?
Which ones Sesame Street?
posted by Mblue at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Which ones Sesame Street?
posted by Mblue at 8:08 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is all a plot by the big Canadian banks to make me feel better about our fees and hoops, right?
posted by maudlin at 8:09 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 8:09 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets, while the debit card is a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
This is why I don't have a credit card. And, having lived that way for years now, I don't have any credit. Thus, even if I wanted a credit card, I'd have to get some crummy fucking credit card with a $300 limit at ridiculous interest rates and annual fees.
This despite the fact that I have a decade's proof that I can live within my means and meet obligations.
Credit ratings make no fucking sense to me. (No, I do understand how they work, mechanically. That's not what I mean.)
Try presenting a check written by a Chase customer to you, a non-Chase customer, at a Chase bank.
I've played that game and won many times, actually. What you need to do is get a little bit loud, and progressively more indignant, as you ask, repeatedly, if they're refusing to honor their legal responsibility to "pay to the order of". It generally takes about five to eight minutes, and a talk with the manager, and they cash the check just so you'll go away.
posted by Netzapper at 8:10 PM on March 10, 2011 [24 favorites]
This is why I don't have a credit card. And, having lived that way for years now, I don't have any credit. Thus, even if I wanted a credit card, I'd have to get some crummy fucking credit card with a $300 limit at ridiculous interest rates and annual fees.
This despite the fact that I have a decade's proof that I can live within my means and meet obligations.
Credit ratings make no fucking sense to me. (No, I do understand how they work, mechanically. That's not what I mean.)
Try presenting a check written by a Chase customer to you, a non-Chase customer, at a Chase bank.
I've played that game and won many times, actually. What you need to do is get a little bit loud, and progressively more indignant, as you ask, repeatedly, if they're refusing to honor their legal responsibility to "pay to the order of". It generally takes about five to eight minutes, and a talk with the manager, and they cash the check just so you'll go away.
posted by Netzapper at 8:10 PM on March 10, 2011 [24 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Chase took away my cash back bonus, and a couple hundred dollars in what should have been cash back. They also took two months to get me a new credit card after telling me my card was stolen. So Chase can suck my boner pills.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:11 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by dirigibleman at 8:11 PM on March 10, 2011
So glad I moved everything to a credit union last year. The big banks charge the poor for being poor - it's not as bad as the check-cashing fee the truly destitute have to pay to get to their money, but it seems like the whle system is topsy-turvy. The less money you have to begin with, the more of it you pay just to access what little bit you do have. Love Louis CK's take.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:11 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:11 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
I closed my Chase account about a month ago when they went to a minimum balance fee. I've been signing my checks over to my SO, and want to go with a samll credity-uniony type bank. I have not had time to do any real research on where to go.
Big banks in this country seem to have the right to tax the poor, and skirt the law. But they will never take away my bourbon.
posted by vrakatar at 8:12 PM on March 10, 2011
Big banks in this country seem to have the right to tax the poor, and skirt the law. But they will never take away my bourbon.
posted by vrakatar at 8:12 PM on March 10, 2011
Credit unions, smaller banks, and JP Morgan's competitors will start advertising "No Debit Card Caps!"
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees.
It did not.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:13 PM on March 10, 2011 [11 favorites]
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees.
It did not.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:13 PM on March 10, 2011 [11 favorites]
Netzapper, I started to do that, and wasted some time. However, I am not really in a position to be making loud obnoxious displays of public disorder, despite the fact that it might be an entirely warranted approach. The food at the County jail is not as good as it used to be.
posted by Xoebe at 8:16 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by Xoebe at 8:16 PM on March 10, 2011
Seriously, though -- $50.00? Not gonna happen. How would you buy a week's groceries for 4? How would you buy a nice dinner out for even 2? Shit -- how would you fill up your SUV using pay-at-the-pump? They can't possibly mean to actually follow through with it.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:17 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:17 PM on March 10, 2011
It kind of did, shakespeherian. WaMu loudly advertised that their ATMs didn't charge fees. But since most ATMs already didn't charge fees for customers of their own bank, this only benefits customers of other banks. Who now have a disincentive to switch to WaMu. Oops.
posted by hattifattener at 8:18 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by hattifattener at 8:18 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Try presenting a check written by a Chase customer to you, a non-Chase customer, at a Chase bank.
I wonder if you could possibly use that check to open an account, then go back through the line five minutes later and close the account.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
I wonder if you could possibly use that check to open an account, then go back through the line five minutes later and close the account.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Something like this would probably be just the incentive I need to finally close my account with Big Evil Bank and move to Small Local Less Morally Reprehensible Bank.
posted by geegollygosh at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by geegollygosh at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011
These are Visa/MC branded cards, right? Where are they in all of this? If they don't let merchants enforce a card minimum or upcharge how could they possibly allow this?
posted by tremspeed at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by tremspeed at 8:19 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Credit unions, smaller banks, and JP Morgan's competitors will start advertising "No Debit Card Caps!"
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees.
It did not.
That's because, by and large, an ATM fee is a convenience charge. You pay the extra in order to get your cash right now and the nature of the transaction is usually fairly private. Having your card declined after unloading a grocery cart full of food, with people waiting in line behind you, then having to walk away from that transaction is a whole different situation, one which is fraught with all kinds of social baggage. Paying an ATM fee is an annoying thing, but doesn't carry anywhere near the sort of stigma a declined transaction in a store does.
posted by Chrischris at 8:24 PM on March 10, 2011
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees.
It did not.
That's because, by and large, an ATM fee is a convenience charge. You pay the extra in order to get your cash right now and the nature of the transaction is usually fairly private. Having your card declined after unloading a grocery cart full of food, with people waiting in line behind you, then having to walk away from that transaction is a whole different situation, one which is fraught with all kinds of social baggage. Paying an ATM fee is an annoying thing, but doesn't carry anywhere near the sort of stigma a declined transaction in a store does.
posted by Chrischris at 8:24 PM on March 10, 2011
This will work great with all those retailers who post signs about their minimum for debit card purchases. Soon you will only be able to use debit cards on purchases of exactly $50.
posted by Eideteker at 8:26 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Eideteker at 8:26 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
You know, I had to close my chase account this week. I put my money in a credit union.
I feel pretty good about my decision right now.
posted by anitanita at 8:27 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
I feel pretty good about my decision right now.
posted by anitanita at 8:27 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets, while the debit card is a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
Also, merchant fees are generally a lot higher for large purchases when you pay with Credit, compared to Debit.
Honestly, I'm surprised that we hadn't seen a backlash against CC processors sooner, given that they take at least 2% off of every single purchase that you make. If the federal government tried to institute a 2% VAT or sales tax, there would be rioting in the streets. However, when banks have effectively instituted such a surcharge on every purchase that you make (merchant agreements generally state that they cannot pass the surcharge directly on to the customer*), nobody seems to notice or care.
*Yeah. There are a handful of merchants who get away with this. My theory is that they either got lucky with their contracts, are operating in violation of their contract, or are paying a MUCH higher rate than the guys with the no-surcharge clause in place.
posted by schmod at 8:28 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, merchant fees are generally a lot higher for large purchases when you pay with Credit, compared to Debit.
Honestly, I'm surprised that we hadn't seen a backlash against CC processors sooner, given that they take at least 2% off of every single purchase that you make. If the federal government tried to institute a 2% VAT or sales tax, there would be rioting in the streets. However, when banks have effectively instituted such a surcharge on every purchase that you make (merchant agreements generally state that they cannot pass the surcharge directly on to the customer*), nobody seems to notice or care.
*Yeah. There are a handful of merchants who get away with this. My theory is that they either got lucky with their contracts, are operating in violation of their contract, or are paying a MUCH higher rate than the guys with the no-surcharge clause in place.
posted by schmod at 8:28 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just hurry up and pass the law already that says our fortnightly salary goes directly to the bank and they get to keep all of it and stop with the pansy-assed pussyfooting.
posted by tumid dahlia at 8:29 PM on March 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by tumid dahlia at 8:29 PM on March 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
Wow, sticking it to the merchant now, what is an average fee for a transaction 15-20 cents?
posted by clavdivs at 8:29 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by clavdivs at 8:29 PM on March 10, 2011
Bend over and grab your ankles, here comes JP Morgan Chase!
Hello, Credit Union.
posted by motown missile at 8:33 PM on March 10, 2011
Hello, Credit Union.
posted by motown missile at 8:33 PM on March 10, 2011
Wait. People have to pay to use their debit cards? As in there are people who actually have limits on the number of times they can use their debit card in a month?
I've been with a credit union for 10 years and have had no credit cards for 7 of those years. The idea that I would have to pay to use a card instead of buying and writing checks is pretty ridiculous to mine brain.
posted by tmt at 8:34 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've been with a credit union for 10 years and have had no credit cards for 7 of those years. The idea that I would have to pay to use a card instead of buying and writing checks is pretty ridiculous to mine brain.
posted by tmt at 8:34 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I just closed my Chase account because of the new fees, too. I'm curious how many customers they've lost so far this year, since several other people in this thread alone have apparently done the same.
posted by gatorae at 8:36 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gatorae at 8:36 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I paid my grad school tuition once on debit.
Good times, good times...
Granted, tuition was a lot less then, and the whole debit thing was pretty new, and the banks not all that concerned since they knew the money was there anyway since they had it in the first place, and that only made sense that they would 'cash' a debit for money they already had in their grubby little hands, but good times, good times...
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:36 PM on March 10, 2011
Good times, good times...
Granted, tuition was a lot less then, and the whole debit thing was pretty new, and the banks not all that concerned since they knew the money was there anyway since they had it in the first place, and that only made sense that they would 'cash' a debit for money they already had in their grubby little hands, but good times, good times...
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:36 PM on March 10, 2011
I would have loved a $100 limit when the waitress at the wings place keyed in my $14 wings dinner as $14000 and it went through on my debit card. We managed to get the money back in time to close on the house, but it taught me never to use debit cards.
(There's also Amex for when you want to pay it off every month. That's one way we did it before debit cards.)
posted by immlass at 8:37 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
(There's also Amex for when you want to pay it off every month. That's one way we did it before debit cards.)
posted by immlass at 8:37 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets, while the debit card is a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
don't worry, american banks run a massive overdraft fee game to make the debit mistress more seductive and even more vengeful. $35 fee to run over my account by $5? why not!
posted by the mad poster! at 8:39 PM on March 10, 2011
don't worry, american banks run a massive overdraft fee game to make the debit mistress more seductive and even more vengeful. $35 fee to run over my account by $5? why not!
posted by the mad poster! at 8:39 PM on March 10, 2011
We closed out our Chase account and moved over to a credit union months ago. Closing that Chase account was nightmarish. It took us months, and a strongly worded letter. If anybody wants to ditch Chase, I suggest you start trying now before they come up with even more ways to make it impossible.
God, I hate those kleptocratic fuckers.
posted by KathrynT at 8:42 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
God, I hate those kleptocratic fuckers.
posted by KathrynT at 8:42 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's not just Chase. Bank Of America has also been considering this. The Consumerist has been covering it for a couple of weeks now, at least.
Imagine being at the grocery store behind someone who is doing their monthly shopping with their newly paycheck-loaded debit card. And having them ring up $300 worth of groceries in 6 installments because of the payment cap.
This is going to charm consumers to no end.
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Imagine being at the grocery store behind someone who is doing their monthly shopping with their newly paycheck-loaded debit card. And having them ring up $300 worth of groceries in 6 installments because of the payment cap.
This is going to charm consumers to no end.
posted by hippybear at 8:42 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
don't worry, american banks run a massive overdraft fee game to make the debit mistress more seductive and even more vengeful.
Recent legislation means that overdraft "protection" now has to be opt-in, which is putting a serious damper on the debit card racket. I'm sure that is one reason Chase is throwing this particular tantrum.
posted by enn at 8:45 PM on March 10, 2011
Recent legislation means that overdraft "protection" now has to be opt-in, which is putting a serious damper on the debit card racket. I'm sure that is one reason Chase is throwing this particular tantrum.
posted by enn at 8:45 PM on March 10, 2011
Oh, and apparently Citigroup is also looking at doing this.
posted by hippybear at 8:48 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by hippybear at 8:48 PM on March 10, 2011
You can't make a cap that's less than the cost of a tank of gas.
posted by rocket88 at 8:50 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 8:50 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
overdraft "protection" now has to be opt-in, which is putting a serious damper on the debit card racket.
Yeah, I get an email every 2 weeks telling me to get on "protection". Right now, if I go over, I just get declined, period. If I'm "protected" I have 24 hours to put money in, or pay a $35 fee.
We've now reached the point where nearly everything means the opposite of what it's commonly understood usage to be.
"My bank's great service is helping me find new ways to save!"
posted by yeloson at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I get an email every 2 weeks telling me to get on "protection". Right now, if I go over, I just get declined, period. If I'm "protected" I have 24 hours to put money in, or pay a $35 fee.
We've now reached the point where nearly everything means the opposite of what it's commonly understood usage to be.
"My bank's great service is helping me find new ways to save!"
posted by yeloson at 8:52 PM on March 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
True story: My mother-in-law, who is a very nice lady, used to be a manager in a big US bank that you've all heard of. One day she she started wondering about her bank's credit cards. You know that credit cards can have a number of balances, right? There's the amount you owe in the current month, the amount you owe from previous months, the amount you withdrew as cash, and so forth. This credit card had a new-ish feature: you could transfer the amount owing from another credit to it, at a favorable rate for the first six months. Anyway, she asked her supervisor "When people pay off this credit card, which balance gets paid off first?" The supervisor didn't know, so he asked his supervisor, who didn't know, and the question went up the hierarchy until everybody agreed that the level of ignorance was total. Then it went down the hierarchy again and ended up with a programmer who might have been called Bob (although he probably wasn't). Bob said "Well, nobody told me what to do about that, so I made the receivables program distribute the payments equally - half to the new balance, half to the old." "Oh," my mother-in-law said.
Now, this is a lesson in how nice people can do horrible things - because I firmly believe that the next words out of her mouth have ruined people's lives. "Oh," she said, "if we applied all the payments to the current balance then we'd get a lot more interest from people who don't pay off the transferred balance before the six months are up." "Hmm," went her supervisor, and "Hmm," went his supervisor, all the way up the hierarchy. They told the programmer to change the way that payments were applied to credit card balances and the bank started making millions and millions of dollars every month from the people who paid their transferred balances late.
My mother-in-law, who is a very nice lady, got one thousand dollars as a bonus and a note of commendation in her personnel record.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:54 PM on March 10, 2011 [36 favorites]
Now, this is a lesson in how nice people can do horrible things - because I firmly believe that the next words out of her mouth have ruined people's lives. "Oh," she said, "if we applied all the payments to the current balance then we'd get a lot more interest from people who don't pay off the transferred balance before the six months are up." "Hmm," went her supervisor, and "Hmm," went his supervisor, all the way up the hierarchy. They told the programmer to change the way that payments were applied to credit card balances and the bank started making millions and millions of dollars every month from the people who paid their transferred balances late.
My mother-in-law, who is a very nice lady, got one thousand dollars as a bonus and a note of commendation in her personnel record.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:54 PM on March 10, 2011 [36 favorites]
Joe there's a whole army of programmers at citibank that do that kind of processing optimization crap.
posted by yesster at 8:57 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by yesster at 8:57 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh, Chase, how much I hate you. Just today I finished switching all of my stuff over to my new, non-Chase account, and I will be presenting myself at the Chase branch tomorrow to completely close out our last remaining Chase account. The account I've had for almost 16 years, opened when that bank was still WaMu, with "free checking for life". Ha. I lived longer than WaMu, and the whole fee thing finally pushed me to kill off that account. I should have had it done earlier, but I was busy having a baby and all. But this bullshit? Yeah, that account is going tomorrow.
Seriously. When I open an account at Wells Fargo* to get away from you, Chase, you should just be ashamed of yourself.
I know, Wells Fargo, only slightly less evil. But that's where all of our other household accounts and mortgage are already, and it's no-fee, so that's what I'm doing.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:58 PM on March 10, 2011
Seriously. When I open an account at Wells Fargo* to get away from you, Chase, you should just be ashamed of yourself.
I know, Wells Fargo, only slightly less evil. But that's where all of our other household accounts and mortgage are already, and it's no-fee, so that's what I'm doing.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:58 PM on March 10, 2011
Banks confound, startle, frustrate and anger me, so I've more or less been outside of the banking and credit card system for most of my life.
But back in the 70s and 80s, didn't banks used to offer as much as 2-6% on basic savings accounts? More? CDs and large balance accounts ran even higher? And checking accounts were paid for by the interest the bank made off of it instead of paying you the interest, right? And now it looks like you're lucky to get a fraction of a percent and not pay too much for a checking account?
Am I hallucinating this recollection? Is this some Bizarro Earth I'm remembering where banks actually behaved mostly sane and made a tidy and useful profit by carefully storing money safely for some people who "lent" their money to the bank, with the bank carefully lending it out to others that paid it back with a reasonable amount of interest.
And if that's not a false memory, what the fuck is this? Bizarro Earth? I mean, I know banks and bankers have long been considered jackals and necessary evils equal to lawyers, but really? This shit is getting out of hand.
Looking at the frustrations people go through now to maintain and manage bank accounts and the hoops and awkward contortions they have to go through and the actual fees and other "evaporated money" that happens make a decent check cashing joint look good. I can cash a payroll check for something like 2-3% or less.
Hrm, and yet banks seem to be making record profit.
Anyone got any cake? I see to be out of bread.
posted by loquacious at 9:04 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
But back in the 70s and 80s, didn't banks used to offer as much as 2-6% on basic savings accounts? More? CDs and large balance accounts ran even higher? And checking accounts were paid for by the interest the bank made off of it instead of paying you the interest, right? And now it looks like you're lucky to get a fraction of a percent and not pay too much for a checking account?
Am I hallucinating this recollection? Is this some Bizarro Earth I'm remembering where banks actually behaved mostly sane and made a tidy and useful profit by carefully storing money safely for some people who "lent" their money to the bank, with the bank carefully lending it out to others that paid it back with a reasonable amount of interest.
And if that's not a false memory, what the fuck is this? Bizarro Earth? I mean, I know banks and bankers have long been considered jackals and necessary evils equal to lawyers, but really? This shit is getting out of hand.
Looking at the frustrations people go through now to maintain and manage bank accounts and the hoops and awkward contortions they have to go through and the actual fees and other "evaporated money" that happens make a decent check cashing joint look good. I can cash a payroll check for something like 2-3% or less.
Hrm, and yet banks seem to be making record profit.
Anyone got any cake? I see to be out of bread.
posted by loquacious at 9:04 PM on March 10, 2011 [9 favorites]
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees. It did not.
My credit union provides free ATMs worldwide, and 4.25% interest checking. Find a similar deal near you! Credit unions rock.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:04 PM on March 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
My credit union provides free ATMs worldwide, and 4.25% interest checking. Find a similar deal near you! Credit unions rock.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:04 PM on March 10, 2011 [8 favorites]
When I say free ATMs, I mean if the other bank charges me a fee, my credit union pays it back to me at the end of the month. I know!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:05 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:05 PM on March 10, 2011
loquacious, in the early eighties the U.S. prime rate got above 20%, so that might have something to do with it.
posted by XMLicious at 9:10 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by XMLicious at 9:10 PM on March 10, 2011
But back in the 70s and 80s, didn't banks used to offer as much as 2-6% on basic savings accounts? More? CDs and large balance accounts ran even higher? And checking accounts were paid for by the interest the bank made off of it instead of paying you the interest, right? And now it looks like you're lucky to get a fraction of a percent and not pay too much for a checking account?
Sounds familiar to me, but our economy was a bit different then, with higher inflation and the much higher prime rate that XMLicious pointed out.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:12 PM on March 10, 2011
Sounds familiar to me, but our economy was a bit different then, with higher inflation and the much higher prime rate that XMLicious pointed out.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:12 PM on March 10, 2011
Dang, this would actually disappoint me since I seem to be the only banking customer on the planet who actually likes Chase as a bank. They process deposits first and debits second (yes, in order from largest to smallest, but I don't really mind that since the deposit gets added first in a sane and orderly fashion), plus they have those amazing deposit-taking ATMs with a 10PM cut-off for checks (cash? any time).
I switched to Chase after being screwed over by three other retail banks. Everyone I've ever met says to switch to a credit union, but I have yet to find a credit union that actually wants to not act like a bank. The credit unions I qualify to join lack convenient ATMs (yes, I really do enough deposits that having the "scan-it-now" ATM type is useful) or hours past 5pm, have the exact same fee structure as large banks, and frown on opening a checking account for someone with a negative number for a credit score.
Chase has actually been the financial institution that has raked me over the coals the least over the past several years.
posted by fireoyster at 9:24 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
I switched to Chase after being screwed over by three other retail banks. Everyone I've ever met says to switch to a credit union, but I have yet to find a credit union that actually wants to not act like a bank. The credit unions I qualify to join lack convenient ATMs (yes, I really do enough deposits that having the "scan-it-now" ATM type is useful) or hours past 5pm, have the exact same fee structure as large banks, and frown on opening a checking account for someone with a negative number for a credit score.
Chase has actually been the financial institution that has raked me over the coals the least over the past several years.
posted by fireoyster at 9:24 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
so am I reading this right - their justification for this is that they have to, as new regulations make it so that they won't be making as much money. Not that they will actually be losing money, but their profits will be reduced? At a time when banks seem to be making record profit?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 9:34 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 9:34 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is me, shedding a tear for the banks and their loss of income from fees.
:'-)
posted by Deathalicious at 9:36 PM on March 10, 2011
:'-)
posted by Deathalicious at 9:36 PM on March 10, 2011
Let me turn you on to what a bank should be like. I use USAA , I'm not affiliated with them - just a happy 7 year old customer. My bank fees last year for my checking account were zero, that's right - nada. And I don't keep a lot of money in the account - maybe a grand at a time - many times just 20 bucks. They don't have a branch near me or one even in my state but that's all right because when I sue an ATM they reimburse me the ATM fees up to about 6 bucks or so.
I just got my yearly allotment of checks - they were FREE with a 5 dollar shipping charge. Personalized deposit slips and prepaid deposit mailers are free as well. Last year I made a mistake and bounced a check and got socked with a 30 dollar overdraft fee. I called them up and said my bad and money is tights right now (unemployed) could you do something for me? They reversed the fee with a thank you - no problem.
Need to deposit your check FAST? Don;t want to wait for the mail to get to them. There's an app for that. You use your iphone and snap a picture of your check - badda boom - it's deposited in your account.
No, you don't have to be a Vet (I am ) to use them. Just sign up online - it costs you nothing. You get some swag as well discounts on rental cars and a really heafty one for Fedex.
OK, needless to say I love these guys - been with them 7 years. Sorry to derail here but there are a couple or three good banks left. Get your money out of the ones that are fusking with us all and put it where someone appreciates your business.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 9:37 PM on March 10, 2011
I just got my yearly allotment of checks - they were FREE with a 5 dollar shipping charge. Personalized deposit slips and prepaid deposit mailers are free as well. Last year I made a mistake and bounced a check and got socked with a 30 dollar overdraft fee. I called them up and said my bad and money is tights right now (unemployed) could you do something for me? They reversed the fee with a thank you - no problem.
Need to deposit your check FAST? Don;t want to wait for the mail to get to them. There's an app for that. You use your iphone and snap a picture of your check - badda boom - it's deposited in your account.
No, you don't have to be a Vet (I am ) to use them. Just sign up online - it costs you nothing. You get some swag as well discounts on rental cars and a really heafty one for Fedex.
OK, needless to say I love these guys - been with them 7 years. Sorry to derail here but there are a couple or three good banks left. Get your money out of the ones that are fusking with us all and put it where someone appreciates your business.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 9:37 PM on March 10, 2011
General strike, anyone?
posted by vrakatar at 9:40 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 9:40 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
"I'm not affiliated with them - just a happy 7 year old customer. "
True, but not all of us qualify for the "young savers" accounts.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:41 PM on March 10, 2011 [15 favorites]
True, but not all of us qualify for the "young savers" accounts.
posted by Hardcore Poser at 9:41 PM on March 10, 2011 [15 favorites]
I hate debit cards because they make it so easy to fork over your money. I find that if I have cash in my pocket instead of cards I don't buy shit, primarily because I don't want to split any large bills. I'll blow through five bucks without thinking twice (or a hundred bucks on the debit card) but having to part with a couple crisp twenties makes me stingier than my parents.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 9:53 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by The Hamms Bear at 9:53 PM on March 10, 2011
Wow, interesting thread - on the meta level.
Devils Rancher $50.00? Not gonna happen. How would you buy a week's groceries for 4? How would you buy a nice dinner out for even 2? Shit -- how would you fill up your SUV using pay-at-the-pump?
Holllllley shit. I remember groceries being cheaper when I was living in Iowa a decade+ ago, but $50 is at least a week's groceries. For ONE, in Vancouver. And grad students here are paid <%75 of grad students in the US. A reasonable monthly 1 bd rent is $1200.
Dinner for 2? $50 sounds cheap. Then add indouble-tax tips that are expected to be %20 when waitresses here have to be paid minimum wage by their employers and waitpersons are sometimes paid much much much higher at high-end (and even not-so-high-end) restaurants (especially if they're physically attractive and at younger-person-centered-restaurants) and bitch you out if you don't...
-breath; ok, I'll recuse myself from mefi for a while now
posted by porpoise at 9:58 PM on March 10, 2011
Devils Rancher $50.00? Not gonna happen. How would you buy a week's groceries for 4? How would you buy a nice dinner out for even 2? Shit -- how would you fill up your SUV using pay-at-the-pump?
Holllllley shit. I remember groceries being cheaper when I was living in Iowa a decade+ ago, but $50 is at least a week's groceries. For ONE, in Vancouver. And grad students here are paid <%75 of grad students in the US. A reasonable monthly 1 bd rent is $1200.
Dinner for 2? $50 sounds cheap. Then add in
-breath; ok, I'll recuse myself from mefi for a while now
posted by porpoise at 9:58 PM on March 10, 2011
I was pretty sure that's what would happen with ATM fees.
It did not.
Charles Schwab reimburses you for ATM fees (because they have none of their own I guess, but it convinced me to sign up because fuck paying $3 at every corner store to get taco money).
If I could find a credit union locally that did the same thing I would switch in a second.
posted by bradbane at 10:03 PM on March 10, 2011
It did not.
Charles Schwab reimburses you for ATM fees (because they have none of their own I guess, but it convinced me to sign up because fuck paying $3 at every corner store to get taco money).
If I could find a credit union locally that did the same thing I would switch in a second.
posted by bradbane at 10:03 PM on March 10, 2011
NO ONE EXPECTS THE PORPOISE RECUSITION!
posted by cashman at 10:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 10:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I get an email every 2 weeks telling me to get on "protection". Right now, if I go over, I just get declined, period. If I'm "protected" I have 24 hours to put money in, or pay a $35 fee.Hahaha. That's much better then the previous system, where if you used your card x times after running down your account, they would charge you x fees. oh and of course they would re-order your transactions to maximize the number of overdraft fees they could charge. So if you bought a stick of gum, and then a $400 TV the same day, you'd get two over draft fees, and even though it was only one purchase that put you under.
The new consumer protection law changes that.
posted by delmoi at 10:07 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
is there any real reason to keep a debit card in your wallet besides ATM transactions?
Yeah, no credit card bills to pay. My credit limit is (effectively) what I've got in my checking account. Of course I always run the card "as credit".
posted by orthogonality at 10:13 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, no credit card bills to pay. My credit limit is (effectively) what I've got in my checking account. Of course I always run the card "as credit".
posted by orthogonality at 10:13 PM on March 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm a little confused as to why I would be restricted in the use of my own fucking money.
FWIW, BofA at least already has a cap on the size of debit card transactions; they also cap the amount of money you can withdraw at an ATM in a single transaction (and I think in a 24-hour period, too). From what I know it's industry standard, to protect against thieves draining someone's bank account.
posted by asterix at 10:25 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
FWIW, BofA at least already has a cap on the size of debit card transactions; they also cap the amount of money you can withdraw at an ATM in a single transaction (and I think in a 24-hour period, too). From what I know it's industry standard, to protect against thieves draining someone's bank account.
posted by asterix at 10:25 PM on March 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why does anyone use these big banks? The local banks are much better, and if that's not an option, thf Internet ones do just fine, paying higher interest and reimbursing ATM fees.
posted by smackfu at 10:48 PM on March 10, 2011
posted by smackfu at 10:48 PM on March 10, 2011
My sister was shocked -- SHOCKED!!! -- that when I left America to work abroad I wasn't taking a credit card with me. She told me that without keeping an open credit card account I was basically DOOMED TO BAD CREDIT HELL forever and ever, despite having zero balance, owing nothing in loans, etc.
So to keep her happy, I thought I'd keep one credit card "open" so to speak. And maybe there'd be an emergency or something, so sure, let's do the adult thing and go abroad with both my debit card (US checking account) and a credit card from a reputable American bank.
About two weeks before I was set to leave, I got my monthly statement on the CC. I had zero balance (had paid the whole thing off a month before) and, I dunno, a few thousand dollars' worth line of credit.
And these fuckers charged me $25.00 for something like "semi-annual account maintenance fee" or some such shit.
Paid it off over the phone with my debit card, canceled the account immediately.
I guess I'll never own a McMansion, but I'll never own credit card again either.
Fuck these guys.
posted by bardic at 10:50 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
So to keep her happy, I thought I'd keep one credit card "open" so to speak. And maybe there'd be an emergency or something, so sure, let's do the adult thing and go abroad with both my debit card (US checking account) and a credit card from a reputable American bank.
About two weeks before I was set to leave, I got my monthly statement on the CC. I had zero balance (had paid the whole thing off a month before) and, I dunno, a few thousand dollars' worth line of credit.
And these fuckers charged me $25.00 for something like "semi-annual account maintenance fee" or some such shit.
Paid it off over the phone with my debit card, canceled the account immediately.
I guess I'll never own a McMansion, but I'll never own credit card again either.
Fuck these guys.
posted by bardic at 10:50 PM on March 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
If you can get a credit card and trust yourself to use it responsibly, use that instead...
This is fine if you're buying from Wal-Mart or Best Buy or some other merchant you don't give a crap about. If you're buying from someone that you care how much of their profit they have to share with the banks and credit card companies, you can usually save them money by using a debit card instead of a credit card. (And of course you can definitely save them money by paying with cash or check.)
posted by straight at 10:54 PM on March 10, 2011
This is fine if you're buying from Wal-Mart or Best Buy or some other merchant you don't give a crap about. If you're buying from someone that you care how much of their profit they have to share with the banks and credit card companies, you can usually save them money by using a debit card instead of a credit card. (And of course you can definitely save them money by paying with cash or check.)
posted by straight at 10:54 PM on March 10, 2011
Dose of reality:
If you aren't already doing it, you should be building up a cash cushion from the time you start working. An emergency fund. This is not spending money. Don't invest it. Don't play with it. Just watch it grow. How much? I'd like to say at least 1 month of living expenses for every year you've been employed...... at a minimum. Too hard? Most people, if given a 50% raise, will still live check to check. You can do it.
As soon as you have a several-month, or after you've worked for a decade, let's say a year's worth of living expenses in the bank, imagine how trivial dealing with banks becomes. You no longer worry about overdraft, credit, making ends meet..... banks will actually listen to you if you want to chat about services. you'll never end up borrowing money.
posted by TravellingDen at 11:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
If you aren't already doing it, you should be building up a cash cushion from the time you start working. An emergency fund. This is not spending money. Don't invest it. Don't play with it. Just watch it grow. How much? I'd like to say at least 1 month of living expenses for every year you've been employed...... at a minimum. Too hard? Most people, if given a 50% raise, will still live check to check. You can do it.
As soon as you have a several-month, or after you've worked for a decade, let's say a year's worth of living expenses in the bank, imagine how trivial dealing with banks becomes. You no longer worry about overdraft, credit, making ends meet..... banks will actually listen to you if you want to chat about services. you'll never end up borrowing money.
posted by TravellingDen at 11:03 PM on March 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Most people, if given a 50% raise, will still live check to check
Silly people, suddenly being able to afford dental care! They should buy gold coins.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:20 PM on March 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
Silly people, suddenly being able to afford dental care! They should buy gold coins.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:20 PM on March 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
An emergency fund. This is not spending money. Don't invest it. Don't play with it. Just watch it grow. How much? I'd like to say at least 1 month of living expenses for every year you've been employed
Dose of REALITY: Been there, done that. My "cash cushion" was eaten up in the 2001 crash. It lasted 6 months and then I was broke and a couple years later - homeless. "Cash cushions" aren't worth a crap is no one is hiring. Guess what? No one is hiring.
Second verse same as the first. Had a 3 month cash cushion saved last year. Got laid off from a University job. 9 months later and I am STILL making more on unemployment then the jobs out there are paying.
Cash cushions? right. We need freaking jobs in this country - not a way to put more money back into the institutions that are utterly screwing us over.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 11:20 PM on March 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
Dose of REALITY: Been there, done that. My "cash cushion" was eaten up in the 2001 crash. It lasted 6 months and then I was broke and a couple years later - homeless. "Cash cushions" aren't worth a crap is no one is hiring. Guess what? No one is hiring.
Second verse same as the first. Had a 3 month cash cushion saved last year. Got laid off from a University job. 9 months later and I am STILL making more on unemployment then the jobs out there are paying.
Cash cushions? right. We need freaking jobs in this country - not a way to put more money back into the institutions that are utterly screwing us over.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 11:20 PM on March 10, 2011 [7 favorites]
I am utterly baffled why any of you people would use a bank for anything.
A good credit union delivers all banking services and a lot more, delivers them better, without all the hassles, faster, for far less money, and with no surprises - it just works. There is no downside and the experience is massively, massively better in every respect.
If you don't qualify for a good credit union, then that's a solid albeit unfortunate reason to have to use a bank, but other than that... ?! If you've just never gotten around to it, or if you labor under the misconception that credit unions aren't as safe as banks, or... well, I can't even imagine a good reason, if you go and take your money to a proper institution that respects you and asks "how high?" when you say "jump!", you will feel really good about it, and you will wonder why it took you this long to get your act together.
posted by -harlequin- at 12:05 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
A good credit union delivers all banking services and a lot more, delivers them better, without all the hassles, faster, for far less money, and with no surprises - it just works. There is no downside and the experience is massively, massively better in every respect.
If you don't qualify for a good credit union, then that's a solid albeit unfortunate reason to have to use a bank, but other than that... ?! If you've just never gotten around to it, or if you labor under the misconception that credit unions aren't as safe as banks, or... well, I can't even imagine a good reason, if you go and take your money to a proper institution that respects you and asks "how high?" when you say "jump!", you will feel really good about it, and you will wonder why it took you this long to get your act together.
posted by -harlequin- at 12:05 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
While you're busy getting shafted by your bank, here's what the grass is like on the other side. I don't work for them, this is my actual experience, and is completely typical:
One day, I decided I wanted a smartphone, but I didn't want to add the expense of a monthly phone plan to my bills. So I had a crazy idea "maybe I can cut my other bills down by the amount of a smartphone plan - without actually losing any of the services those bills are buying?"
It then occurred to me that it had been more than a year since I got my auto insurance plan, and since I hadn't had an incident, maybe I could get the rate cut?
I've compared my insurance rates with friends and I know I already have a sweet deal, but hey - a year with no incidents - worth a shot.
So I write an email to my credit union - "hey, I've had auto insurance for a year with no incidents, can you see if the insurance company will give me a better rate without reducing coverage?"
I don't know my insurance policy number or anything like that. I got my auto loan through the credit union, so I figure that as lienholders they can find out that stuff. Basically, I've told my people what I want, now my people will talk to their people, and what I want done will be taken care of it.
Within hours, I get a message that they looked at a bunch of difference insurance companies and here is the best offer they can find - am I interested?
The offer is the same level of coverage, different company. NEARLY HALF THE PRICE. (And I was already paying less than anyone I knew)
Yes, I'll take it. Thank you!
I'll need to sign a couple of forms. Would I like to come into a branch, or would I like those forms faxed to me, or would I like them emailed?
Email, thank you.
I open my email, read the forms, sign them and email them back.
DONE!
The difference in savings buys me A SMARTPHONE PLAN!
No fees. I was not charged for their work on my behalf. It's just their standard level of customer service.
I didn't even need to leave the house. My experts do it for me.
I didn't need to deal with any insurance companies. My experts do it for me.
I didn't need to shop around. My experts do it for me.
And if I tell people my insurance rate, it now drops jaws.
It's like being a senator or something - like you have "people", you ask for something to be done, and they make it happen. I have plenty of similar anecdotes.
Why the fuck would ANYONE ever want a bank?!
posted by -harlequin- at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
One day, I decided I wanted a smartphone, but I didn't want to add the expense of a monthly phone plan to my bills. So I had a crazy idea "maybe I can cut my other bills down by the amount of a smartphone plan - without actually losing any of the services those bills are buying?"
It then occurred to me that it had been more than a year since I got my auto insurance plan, and since I hadn't had an incident, maybe I could get the rate cut?
I've compared my insurance rates with friends and I know I already have a sweet deal, but hey - a year with no incidents - worth a shot.
So I write an email to my credit union - "hey, I've had auto insurance for a year with no incidents, can you see if the insurance company will give me a better rate without reducing coverage?"
I don't know my insurance policy number or anything like that. I got my auto loan through the credit union, so I figure that as lienholders they can find out that stuff. Basically, I've told my people what I want, now my people will talk to their people, and what I want done will be taken care of it.
Within hours, I get a message that they looked at a bunch of difference insurance companies and here is the best offer they can find - am I interested?
The offer is the same level of coverage, different company. NEARLY HALF THE PRICE. (And I was already paying less than anyone I knew)
Yes, I'll take it. Thank you!
I'll need to sign a couple of forms. Would I like to come into a branch, or would I like those forms faxed to me, or would I like them emailed?
Email, thank you.
I open my email, read the forms, sign them and email them back.
DONE!
The difference in savings buys me A SMARTPHONE PLAN!
No fees. I was not charged for their work on my behalf. It's just their standard level of customer service.
I didn't even need to leave the house. My experts do it for me.
I didn't need to deal with any insurance companies. My experts do it for me.
I didn't need to shop around. My experts do it for me.
And if I tell people my insurance rate, it now drops jaws.
It's like being a senator or something - like you have "people", you ask for something to be done, and they make it happen. I have plenty of similar anecdotes.
Why the fuck would ANYONE ever want a bank?!
posted by -harlequin- at 12:34 AM on March 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
The difference in savings buys me A SMARTPHONE PLAN!
Actually, that's an exaggeration. Half of a small number is a smaller number - slightly too small. But it pays for most of the cheapest smartphone plan I could find. It paid the lion's share. I haggled my ISP down for the rest :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 12:42 AM on March 11, 2011
Actually, that's an exaggeration. Half of a small number is a smaller number - slightly too small. But it pays for most of the cheapest smartphone plan I could find. It paid the lion's share. I haggled my ISP down for the rest :-)
posted by -harlequin- at 12:42 AM on March 11, 2011
I've never understood why banks charge a fixed fee ($0.44 or whatever) for processing debit card transactions, but charge a percentage of the value for the for processing credit card transactions. Anyone know the answer?
posted by bap98189 at 1:20 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by bap98189 at 1:20 AM on March 11, 2011
I figured a late night bowling ball tossed from a moving vehicle through a plate glass window at Chase bank would give me my $6 worth of satisfaction.
Ah, yes. Now, just try buying a bowling ball with your newly-capped debit card ...
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:56 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah, yes. Now, just try buying a bowling ball with your newly-capped debit card ...
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:56 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've never understood why banks charge a fixed fee for processing debit card transactions, but charge a percentage of the value for the for processing credit card transactions.
I suspect debit card transactions are smaller on average than credit card transactions.
(They're clever bastards, aren't they?)
posted by ryanrs at 3:14 AM on March 11, 2011
I suspect debit card transactions are smaller on average than credit card transactions.
(They're clever bastards, aren't they?)
posted by ryanrs at 3:14 AM on March 11, 2011
Metafilter: a harsh mistress that does not put up with that shit.
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 3:55 AM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by l33tpolicywonk at 3:55 AM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wait now - in the US, it isn't common for people to use debit cards? I'm in the UK and I use mine for everything - I very rarely withdraw cash, particularly after having my wallet stolen a couple of times and money I'd borrowed to tide me over until I got my bank card went with it. I can go to the supermarket now, pick out a loaf of bread and hand over my card - no fees. They take them in McDonalds and several convenience stores (though there's sometimes a £5 minimum). Admittedly, we don't have regional banks here but I didn't realise use was that uncommon.
posted by mippy at 4:16 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by mippy at 4:16 AM on March 11, 2011
Having said that, it took years for me to explain to my mum that you can use the card at Tesco and they won#t charge interest like on a credit card.
posted by mippy at 4:17 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by mippy at 4:17 AM on March 11, 2011
If this goes thru there goes my job. At the flower shop the lion's share of business is with debit cards-to include online and phone orders as well.
This would have a terrible effect on the economy if this were to go through.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:18 AM on March 11, 2011
This would have a terrible effect on the economy if this were to go through.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:18 AM on March 11, 2011
While I was in mfg line support, I had a discretionary limit of $1K/month on my AmEx card for misc tooling/fixtures. If I spent any more than that, I'd have to go through purchasing/RFQ/Cost Justification etc. My vendors knew this and gladly phased delivery and billing over a convenient timetable.
Sure, go ahead and cap my transaction limit, Chase. Merchants will adapt and it'll just increase transaction costs for you in the long run.
posted by klarck at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2011
Sure, go ahead and cap my transaction limit, Chase. Merchants will adapt and it'll just increase transaction costs for you in the long run.
posted by klarck at 4:27 AM on March 11, 2011
...is there any real reason to keep a debit card in your wallet besides ATM transactions?
Costco doesn't accept any credit card besides Amex, but does accept all debit cards. If you're a Costco member who doesn't have an Amex card, that's a good reason to carry a debit card.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:44 AM on March 11, 2011
Costco doesn't accept any credit card besides Amex, but does accept all debit cards. If you're a Costco member who doesn't have an Amex card, that's a good reason to carry a debit card.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:44 AM on March 11, 2011
Costco accepts all debit cards but 5th/3rd's, because they know what all of us know. Fifth Third is the fucking devil.
posted by Mick at 4:54 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Mick at 4:54 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
This would have a terrible effect on the economy if this were to go through.
Why would this bother the banks?
posted by fuq at 4:58 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why would this bother the banks?
posted by fuq at 4:58 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I love these kinds of responses from banks. "We don't want to hurt you in new ways, but we might have to, because that new law doesn't let us hurt you in the old ways." They just want to be the good guy, but they'd have no choice.
posted by Nothing at 5:04 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by Nothing at 5:04 AM on March 11, 2011
That's a big enough cut to cost Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) more than $1 billion a year.
If the top executives took just a tiny fraction of a percentage off their income, they could very easily make up this $1 billion a year. Maybe they couldn't get the Renior they were planning to put in the yacht, or they couldn't take that extra trip to Europe this year, but I'm sure they'd be fine otherwise.
posted by zardoz at 5:27 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
If the top executives took just a tiny fraction of a percentage off their income, they could very easily make up this $1 billion a year. Maybe they couldn't get the Renior they were planning to put in the yacht, or they couldn't take that extra trip to Europe this year, but I'm sure they'd be fine otherwise.
posted by zardoz at 5:27 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I figured a late night bowling ball tossed from a moving vehicle through a plate glass window
Don't do this.
After all, a bowling ball is very heavy, and the plate glass windows they use are very strong. No, I think what you need are shards of ceramic, like the kind you might find from a automobile spark plug. Thrown reasonably hard, they will make mincemeat of plate glass.
'Cause knowing is half the battle!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:28 AM on March 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Don't do this.
After all, a bowling ball is very heavy, and the plate glass windows they use are very strong. No, I think what you need are shards of ceramic, like the kind you might find from a automobile spark plug. Thrown reasonably hard, they will make mincemeat of plate glass.
'Cause knowing is half the battle!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:28 AM on March 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Or better yet: cover the bowling ball in shards of ceramic.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:30 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:30 AM on March 11, 2011
You don't need a general strike, just a mortgage payers' strike. Unionise!
My mother-in-law, who is a very nice lady, got one thousand dollars as a bonus and a note of commendation in her personnel record.
And some time later the UK government finally got around to outlawing her little brainwave.
posted by bonaldi at 6:19 AM on March 11, 2011
My mother-in-law, who is a very nice lady, got one thousand dollars as a bonus and a note of commendation in her personnel record.
And some time later the UK government finally got around to outlawing her little brainwave.
posted by bonaldi at 6:19 AM on March 11, 2011
One word people: CASH!
Also, seriously, let's lock up these evil parasites.
posted by Mister_A at 6:22 AM on March 11, 2011
Also, seriously, let's lock up these evil parasites.
posted by Mister_A at 6:22 AM on March 11, 2011
i stopped using my credit union account after a year of monthly attempts to sell me life insurance....
basically, you're fucked.
posted by ennui.bz at 6:23 AM on March 11, 2011
basically, you're fucked.
posted by ennui.bz at 6:23 AM on March 11, 2011
've never understood why banks charge a fixed fee ($0.44 or whatever) for processing debit card transactions, but charge a percentage of the value for the for processing credit card transactions. Anyone know the answer?
Because a credit card transaction is much, much riskier. When doing a credit card transaction, the processor is providing the money to the merchant, while accepting the risk that you will never pay that bill. Essentially assuming the risk that the business itself might have previously assumed by allowing people to maintain house accounts or run tabs.
When doing a debit card transaction, they simply take the money out of your bank account, so there's no risk that you won't pay it. (Or, in some cases, they take the money from your overdraft plan, fucking you over and transferring the risk to someone else. Either way, they're not on the hook for the risk.)
posted by jacquilynne at 7:20 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Because a credit card transaction is much, much riskier. When doing a credit card transaction, the processor is providing the money to the merchant, while accepting the risk that you will never pay that bill. Essentially assuming the risk that the business itself might have previously assumed by allowing people to maintain house accounts or run tabs.
When doing a debit card transaction, they simply take the money out of your bank account, so there's no risk that you won't pay it. (Or, in some cases, they take the money from your overdraft plan, fucking you over and transferring the risk to someone else. Either way, they're not on the hook for the risk.)
posted by jacquilynne at 7:20 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
One word people: CASH!
Last week I bought a new computer with cash, in part to see if it could be done. The process took about a week and was stupid on several levels. And this was with Apple, who at least have physical retail stores.
The process involved 8-10 people, 100 miles of driving, and EVERY Apple payment system in existence—including their retail, gift card, and online ordering systems. The clerk actually had to turn my cash into multiple gift cards before he could enter the order into their system. I swear, it was Brazil with iPhones instead of the little CRTs.
posted by ryanrs at 7:28 AM on March 11, 2011 [10 favorites]
Last week I bought a new computer with cash, in part to see if it could be done. The process took about a week and was stupid on several levels. And this was with Apple, who at least have physical retail stores.
The process involved 8-10 people, 100 miles of driving, and EVERY Apple payment system in existence—including their retail, gift card, and online ordering systems. The clerk actually had to turn my cash into multiple gift cards before he could enter the order into their system. I swear, it was Brazil with iPhones instead of the little CRTs.
posted by ryanrs at 7:28 AM on March 11, 2011 [10 favorites]
I guess I'll never own a McMansion, but I'll never own credit card again either.
Amen, Bardic. I declared bankruptcy about 4 years ago, and have been credit card-free as a result since then. It felt like a constraint at first, but I realized I'd been buying everything twice as a result of interest. I don't think I ever want to go back to what I was paying in interest back then. I have no savings (well, okay, I have $33.00 in savings) but I'm getting by within my means, and I'm not paying any banks any interest. If I don't have the cash for it, I don't buy it -- it's a new concept for me, but it's working out great.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 AM on March 11, 2011
Amen, Bardic. I declared bankruptcy about 4 years ago, and have been credit card-free as a result since then. It felt like a constraint at first, but I realized I'd been buying everything twice as a result of interest. I don't think I ever want to go back to what I was paying in interest back then. I have no savings (well, okay, I have $33.00 in savings) but I'm getting by within my means, and I'm not paying any banks any interest. If I don't have the cash for it, I don't buy it -- it's a new concept for me, but it's working out great.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 AM on March 11, 2011
BTW, the reason it took a week is because my credit union does not keep enough cash in the till to purchase a Mac Pro (even the cheapest configuration).
posted by ryanrs at 7:31 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by ryanrs at 7:31 AM on March 11, 2011
Maybe this is the right place to ask: there are ads all over the DC Metro exhorting people to Take Action! and Stop the Debit Card Rule! It appears to be funded by associations of credit unions and community banks, but...what is actually going on?
posted by kittyprecious at 7:34 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by kittyprecious at 7:34 AM on March 11, 2011
Banks cannot be trusted. And certainly no individual bank can be trusted to do anything but attempt to take as much of your money as you let them take.
Personally I have a redundant array of inexpensive banks set up. I've got accounts in a handful of institutions and credit card issuers, all but one with no annual fees and all the critical payments are spread out across them. I'm considering opening yet another account in a credit union after all the glowing testimonials in this thread.
posted by Skorgu at 7:49 AM on March 11, 2011
Personally I have a redundant array of inexpensive banks set up. I've got accounts in a handful of institutions and credit card issuers, all but one with no annual fees and all the critical payments are spread out across them. I'm considering opening yet another account in a credit union after all the glowing testimonials in this thread.
posted by Skorgu at 7:49 AM on March 11, 2011
First thing I thought of when I read this news was the video Money as Debt. Because when people go into debt (either through loans or credit cards), that's how more money is created. And people using debit cards aren't going into debt like people using credit cards. Our entire money supply is premised on people taking out loans (a.k.a. going into debt).
You take out a $1,000 loan, the bank writes (-$1K) in your column and +1k in their column. And $1,000 that did not exist yesterday is *POOF* magicked into existence.
Then the magic of fractional reserve banking takes over, and the bank can take your $1K IUO and use it as the foundation of another $900 in additional new loans, on and on down like a series of Russian matrioshka dolls, each new (albeit smaller) loan magicking more new money into existence.
Of course, there's thejuice interest, which has to be paid back with money from a bank. And we know where that came from. Each still-smoking-of-brimstone $1k already has an interest clock that's ticking and is worth (at it's creation) $1 minus the interest already attached to it.
Banksters don't get to magic money into existence when people use debit cards (in addition to the fees they get from us). And when someone pays off their loan, it causes money to disappear from the system because the loan no longer exists on the books to act as a "reserve" for other loans. Our economy is IOUs based on IOUs based on IOUs.
I'm not nominating 2011 as "Push A Bankster Out A Top-Story Window" year. But if a voice-vote were called for...
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:52 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
You take out a $1,000 loan, the bank writes (-$1K) in your column and +1k in their column. And $1,000 that did not exist yesterday is *POOF* magicked into existence.
Then the magic of fractional reserve banking takes over, and the bank can take your $1K IUO and use it as the foundation of another $900 in additional new loans, on and on down like a series of Russian matrioshka dolls, each new (albeit smaller) loan magicking more new money into existence.
Of course, there's the
Banksters don't get to magic money into existence when people use debit cards (in addition to the fees they get from us). And when someone pays off their loan, it causes money to disappear from the system because the loan no longer exists on the books to act as a "reserve" for other loans. Our economy is IOUs based on IOUs based on IOUs.
I'm not nominating 2011 as "Push A Bankster Out A Top-Story Window" year. But if a voice-vote were called for...
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 7:52 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
So let me get this straight, less than five years after helping to destroy our economy and getting saved by having pallets of money shoveled at them, giant banks realize that they are incrementally less profitable, and are attempting to take us back to a system that is either less convenient (cash and checks) or prone to abuse (credit cards.)? Is that right?
Because I still have my torches and my pitchfork is still sharp, and after the last couple of weeks, I'm looking for a new target for my ire.
Fortunately my credit union of 20 years doesn't seem on board with this stupidity, but if it bleeds over, the big banks can expect some push back.
posted by quin at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Because I still have my torches and my pitchfork is still sharp, and after the last couple of weeks, I'm looking for a new target for my ire.
Fortunately my credit union of 20 years doesn't seem on board with this stupidity, but if it bleeds over, the big banks can expect some push back.
posted by quin at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
You guys have it all wrong. They just want to protect their customers from being overcharged! The profits are just gravy.
posted by pwnguin at 8:22 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by pwnguin at 8:22 AM on March 11, 2011
I wonder what will it take for individual U.S. citizens to mobilize & force a change? Do we first have to become a third-world economy before reaching riot levels? It just seems to me that, regardless of how illogical & unethical many governmental & banking practices are, it JUST KEEPS GOING ALONG, doing whatever it wants, tossing aside corpses of the middle class. Are we too massive & numerous to rally towards one purpose (without devolving into infighting)? I'm really fearful for our future.
posted by PepperMax at 8:28 AM on March 11, 2011
posted by PepperMax at 8:28 AM on March 11, 2011
Well, people have been trying to mobilize a mass exodus from the banks into credit unions since the collapse in 2008, but it takes effort by each individual customer to go through all that, and for a lot of households, their bank accounts are tangled with the rest of their lives in strange ways (automated bill-pay, etc).
I would love to see the banking beasts starved by having people find alternate ways to handle their finances. But overcoming inertia is difficult.
posted by hippybear at 8:31 AM on March 11, 2011
I would love to see the banking beasts starved by having people find alternate ways to handle their finances. But overcoming inertia is difficult.
posted by hippybear at 8:31 AM on March 11, 2011
The problem is that the credit card tempts you to go beyond your budgets...
Our problem is not so much that we're *tempted* (we tend to be quite good at not spending), but that the credit card transactions make it somewhat difficult to see "where we are" in our monthly spending. Instead of looking in one place, it's two places (or at least three, if there are two people involved). You have to look at the credit card balance, subtract it from the bank balance, take into account the payment that's in the mail, remember the transactions that haven't posted, and so on. I love credit cards for the reward, and the risk reduction, but my wife who does the finances has a harder time of it unless I notify her of every transaction (which does not come easily to me; I forget to do so).
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:43 AM on March 11, 2011
Our problem is not so much that we're *tempted* (we tend to be quite good at not spending), but that the credit card transactions make it somewhat difficult to see "where we are" in our monthly spending. Instead of looking in one place, it's two places (or at least three, if there are two people involved). You have to look at the credit card balance, subtract it from the bank balance, take into account the payment that's in the mail, remember the transactions that haven't posted, and so on. I love credit cards for the reward, and the risk reduction, but my wife who does the finances has a harder time of it unless I notify her of every transaction (which does not come easily to me; I forget to do so).
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:43 AM on March 11, 2011
Frontline: "The Card Game":
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:48 AM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
As credit card companies face rising public anger, new regulation from Washington and staggering new rates of default and bankruptcy, FRONTLINE correspondent Lowell Bergman investigates the future of the massive consumer loan industry and its impact on a fragile national economy.
In The Card Game, a follow-up to the Secret History of the Credit Card and a joint project with The New York Times, Bergman and the Times talk to industry insiders, lobbyists, politicians and consumer advocates as they square off over attempts to reform the way the industry has done business for decades.
"The card issuers could do anything they want," Robert McKinley, CEO of CardWeb.com, tells FRONTLINE of the industry's unchecked power over consumers. "They could change your interest rate. They could impose an annual fee. They could close your account." High interest rates along with more and more penalty fees drove up profits for the industry, Bergman finds, as the banks followed the lead of an aggressive upstart: Providian Bank. In an exclusive interview with FRONTLINE, former Providian CEO Shailesh Mehta tells Bergman how his company successfully targeted vulnerable low-income customers whom Providian called "the unbanked."
"They're lower-income people-bad credits, bankrupts, young credits, no credits," Mehta says. Providian also innovated by offering "free" credit cards that carried heavy hidden fees. "I used to use the word 'penalty pricing' or 'stealth pricing,'" Mehta tells FRONTLINE. "When people make the buying decision, they don't look at the penalty fees because they never believe they'll be late. They never believe they'll be over limit, right? ... Our business took off. ... We were making a billion dollars a year."
It took the economic collapse in the fall of 2008 to set the stage for potentially historic change in the consumer credit business. President Obama and his team pushed through a credit card reform bill in May, and they're now looking to establish a new Consumer Financial Protection Agency. But the banking and financial services industries contribute huge amounts of money to Congress -- and the jury is still out on whether the new regulations can pass. "It's a step in the right direction, but it's a modest step," says Harvard law professor Elizabeth Warren. "It's a set of very discrete new laws. And the credit industry instantly set to work on how they could run around them. By itself, that set of rules won't change the game."
"It's hard for them to get a bill through the U.S. Senate when the industry is pouring money into Washington," says Martin Eakes of the Center for Responsible Lending of the banks' political clout. "As Sen. [Dick] Durbin from Chicago recently said, 'the banks, even as unpopular as they are right now in this crisis, still own this place.'"
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:48 AM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, people have been trying to mobilize a mass exodus from the banks into credit unions since the collapse in 2008, but it takes effort by each individual customer to go through all that, and for a lot of households, their bank accounts are tangled with the rest of their lives in strange ways (automated bill-pay, etc).
While I have savings in a credit union, I don't use it as my main bank simply because the online banking site is horrible.
And it's among the best of the credit unions in my area.
Super nice people though, and happily they've not jumped on the "no hats, no sunglasses" poster campaign like a lot of banks around here.
posted by madajb at 9:18 AM on March 11, 2011
While I have savings in a credit union, I don't use it as my main bank simply because the online banking site is horrible.
And it's among the best of the credit unions in my area.
Super nice people though, and happily they've not jumped on the "no hats, no sunglasses" poster campaign like a lot of banks around here.
posted by madajb at 9:18 AM on March 11, 2011
I don't have a credit card or an account with a credit union, and I don't qualify for either, so that's off the table for an indefinite period.
So I guess you'd all better get used to shuffling your feet impatiently in line behind me at the grocery store while I fill out a check!
posted by ErikaB at 10:03 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
So I guess you'd all better get used to shuffling your feet impatiently in line behind me at the grocery store while I fill out a check!
posted by ErikaB at 10:03 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a former merchant, I'm pretty sure the reasoning behind this move is the fees that the bank charges the merchant. Credit card fees are usually a percentage charge of the total transaction, whereas the debit cards are usually a flat rate per transaction, like 25 or 75 cents. Chase just isn't content with a dollar fee when they could be making 6 off of a large transaction.
My bank card works as both a CC and debit card, and I always use it as debit when I can.
posted by daHIFI at 10:44 AM on March 11, 2011
My bank card works as both a CC and debit card, and I always use it as debit when I can.
posted by daHIFI at 10:44 AM on March 11, 2011
Wait now - in the US, it isn't common for people to use debit cards?
No, and further than the UK, I think in Australia and New Zealand, Debit is used almost exclusively, and credit cards hardly at all - it's pretty common for retailers to accept debit but not credit, and almost unheard of for retailers to accept credit but not debit.
Here in the USA, it's the other way around.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:39 AM on March 11, 2011
No, and further than the UK, I think in Australia and New Zealand, Debit is used almost exclusively, and credit cards hardly at all - it's pretty common for retailers to accept debit but not credit, and almost unheard of for retailers to accept credit but not debit.
Here in the USA, it's the other way around.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:39 AM on March 11, 2011
Capping debit transactions to avoid loss on the per-swipe transactions? This will stop them from losing money how - by the sheer number of people who will ask the teller to just split the charge and run the card twice - that is, zero?
And testing out monthly fees for the cards, and $15/mo charges for checking accounts?
These are reasons #548 through 551 why I love my credit union and will continue doing business with them for the foreseeable future. Fuck the banks. I want my money in an institution that is working for me, not for themselves.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:46 AM on March 11, 2011
And testing out monthly fees for the cards, and $15/mo charges for checking accounts?
These are reasons #548 through 551 why I love my credit union and will continue doing business with them for the foreseeable future. Fuck the banks. I want my money in an institution that is working for me, not for themselves.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:46 AM on March 11, 2011
by the sheer number of people who will ask the teller to just split the charge and run the card twice - that is, zero?
Online purchases? Tell me how, with a $100.00 cap, I'm supposed to order a Macbook Pro online. How on earth would a low transaction cap like this work for web retailers of expensive things? (for people unable or unwilling to buy stuff with an actual credit card, that is, which is a non-zero number of people)
Even IRL -- who's going to stand at the counter at Best Buy while the clerk rings up their new big-screen TV 12 times? How would you track receipts for returns/exchanges/warranties? The whole thing is crazy.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:52 AM on March 11, 2011
Online purchases? Tell me how, with a $100.00 cap, I'm supposed to order a Macbook Pro online. How on earth would a low transaction cap like this work for web retailers of expensive things? (for people unable or unwilling to buy stuff with an actual credit card, that is, which is a non-zero number of people)
Even IRL -- who's going to stand at the counter at Best Buy while the clerk rings up their new big-screen TV 12 times? How would you track receipts for returns/exchanges/warranties? The whole thing is crazy.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:52 AM on March 11, 2011
[Y]ou wouldn't run into a problem online... You'll just run the card as credit...
Not according to the linked article: "And the cap would apply even if you run your debit card as credit."
posted by JiBB at 12:49 PM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not according to the linked article: "And the cap would apply even if you run your debit card as credit."
posted by JiBB at 12:49 PM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
5_13_23_42_69_666: so am I reading this right - their justification for this is that they have to, as new regulations make it so that they won't be making as much money. Not that they will actually be losing money, but their profits will be reduced? At a time when banks seem to be making record profit?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:19 PM on March 11, 2011
Right now, every time you swipe your debit card your bank charges the retailer an average fee of 44 cents, which it shares with its partners. Those little fees, however, add up to about $16 billion per year, according to 2009 data from the Federal Reserve.tl:dr -- yes, it's all about decreased revenue.
But as part of the Wall Street reform legislation that was passed last year, these fees are being slashed. The Fed is currently proposing rules that would go into effect in July and would cap interchange fees at 12 cents.
That's a big enough cut to cost Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) more than $1 billion a year. And Chase may not be alone. Other major issuers are also projecting huge losses from the interchange fee cap.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:19 PM on March 11, 2011
Other major issuers are also projecting huge losses from the interchange fee cap.
They're not projecting losses. They're projecting decreased profits. Saying it's a loss is a lie and is confusing the issue.
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
They're not projecting losses. They're projecting decreased profits. Saying it's a loss is a lie and is confusing the issue.
posted by hippybear at 2:22 PM on March 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
A penny not earned is a penny lost, as they say.
posted by hattifattener at 3:29 PM on March 11, 2011
posted by hattifattener at 3:29 PM on March 11, 2011
Poet_lariat:
No, you don't have to be a Vet (I am ) to use them. Just sign up online - it costs you nothing. You get some swag as well discounts on rental cars and a really heafty one for Fedex.
Their site says that either you or your spouse needs to have served in the military, or either your spouse or your parents must have a USAA account. Is there some other way to qualify they don't mention online?
posted by Salamandrous at 5:46 PM on March 11, 2011
No, you don't have to be a Vet (I am ) to use them. Just sign up online - it costs you nothing. You get some swag as well discounts on rental cars and a really heafty one for Fedex.
Their site says that either you or your spouse needs to have served in the military, or either your spouse or your parents must have a USAA account. Is there some other way to qualify they don't mention online?
posted by Salamandrous at 5:46 PM on March 11, 2011
Salamandrous
That's only for the insurance (car or life). Trust me - call them and they'll open an account for you.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2011
That's only for the insurance (car or life). Trust me - call them and they'll open an account for you.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 9:06 PM on March 11, 2011
No, and further than the UK, I think in Australia and New Zealand, Debit is used almost exclusively, and credit cards hardly at all - it's pretty common for retailers to accept debit but not credit, and almost unheard of for retailers to accept credit but not debit.
Here in the USA, it's the other way around.
You sure about that, harlequin? I use debit cards in the U.S. to pay for gas, pay for groceries, pay for anything I can. I never use credit, though that is certainly an option. I suppose some really stupid people pay for everyday things with credit (the difference is just a push of a button on the swiper), but I'm willing to be most people use debit.
posted by zardoz at 9:50 PM on March 11, 2011
Here in the USA, it's the other way around.
You sure about that, harlequin? I use debit cards in the U.S. to pay for gas, pay for groceries, pay for anything I can. I never use credit, though that is certainly an option. I suppose some really stupid people pay for everyday things with credit (the difference is just a push of a button on the swiper), but I'm willing to be most people use debit.
posted by zardoz at 9:50 PM on March 11, 2011
Among my friends and I, it seems to be about an even split on credit and debit cards. Maybe we're all a relatively responsible bunch, but I think it depends more on rewards than anything else.
Still, even though I get 2% cash back on my credit card, I've been transitioning over to debit more lately because I think it does help my spending.
But other countries were way way ahead of the US in terms of accepting debit card payments. By at least ten years ago, if not earlier, every little shop in Canada took debit (as debit, PIK required, none of these cc co-branding things). Probably helped along by the fact hat there are basically less than 10 banks in the country as opposed to the innumerable banks in the states. so it wouldn't surprise me at all if debit were much more widely used outside the US (especially since it's often harder to get a credit card too).
Poet_lariat, thanks, I'll give it a try.
posted by Salamandrous at 3:55 AM on March 12, 2011
Still, even though I get 2% cash back on my credit card, I've been transitioning over to debit more lately because I think it does help my spending.
But other countries were way way ahead of the US in terms of accepting debit card payments. By at least ten years ago, if not earlier, every little shop in Canada took debit (as debit, PIK required, none of these cc co-branding things). Probably helped along by the fact hat there are basically less than 10 banks in the country as opposed to the innumerable banks in the states. so it wouldn't surprise me at all if debit were much more widely used outside the US (especially since it's often harder to get a credit card too).
Poet_lariat, thanks, I'll give it a try.
posted by Salamandrous at 3:55 AM on March 12, 2011
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posted by TwelveTwo at 7:54 PM on March 10, 2011