Judo Chop!
September 4, 2011 7:01 PM Subscribe
The Judo Chops series at MMA website Bloody Elbow will help you discover the "art" in mixed martial arts. Each entry uses photos, GIFs and expert explanation to break down just what goes on in a high level mixed martial arts fight.
New to the sport? You might want to start with Chops dedicated to the man widely held as the greatest fighter in the world, UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva:
Anderson Silva and the Anchor Punch of (the punch that won Silva's last fight.)
Anderson Silva is Magic
Anderson Silva and the Clinch (he wrote a book about it): Part One/ Part Two
Anderson Silva's Backwards Elbow
The Kickboxing of Anderson Silva
Or perhaps you'd prefer Silva's closest competitor to title of greatest fighter, UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre:
Georges St. Pierre's Superman Punch
Georges St. Pierre Chaining Takedowns
Some other great fighters:
The Karate Footsweeps of Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans and the transition from striking to taking down his opponent
The Greco-Roman wrestling of Jon Jones
The Punching Power of Brock Lesnar
Interesting techniques:
The Gogoplata
The Twister
The Salaverry
The Crucifix
The Peruvian Necktie
Belly to Back Slams
Dirty Boxing
The No-Arm Triangle Choke
New to the sport? You might want to start with Chops dedicated to the man widely held as the greatest fighter in the world, UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva:
Anderson Silva and the Anchor Punch of (the punch that won Silva's last fight.)
Anderson Silva is Magic
Anderson Silva and the Clinch (he wrote a book about it): Part One/ Part Two
Anderson Silva's Backwards Elbow
The Kickboxing of Anderson Silva
Or perhaps you'd prefer Silva's closest competitor to title of greatest fighter, UFC Welterweight Champion Georges St. Pierre:
Georges St. Pierre's Superman Punch
Georges St. Pierre Chaining Takedowns
Some other great fighters:
The Karate Footsweeps of Lyoto Machida
Rashad Evans and the transition from striking to taking down his opponent
The Greco-Roman wrestling of Jon Jones
The Punching Power of Brock Lesnar
Interesting techniques:
The Gogoplata
The Twister
The Salaverry
The Crucifix
The Peruvian Necktie
Belly to Back Slams
Dirty Boxing
The No-Arm Triangle Choke
Thank you sir, for a near-perfect MMA post. Perfect, of course, would've included more Segal kick.
Speaking of whom, fight after fight of Silva's career more and more resembles a lesson in his sensei's profound teachings.
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 7:36 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Speaking of whom, fight after fight of Silva's career more and more resembles a lesson in his sensei's profound teachings.
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 7:36 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Excellent post. The Judo Chop series is great. They often link to the Gracie breakdowns of selected moves. Here's one of my favorites, their review of the twister.
posted by googly at 7:54 PM on September 4, 2011
posted by googly at 7:54 PM on September 4, 2011
I have a buddy who is into UFC. I'd always catch a few fights when I was around, but I never liked it. It actually annoyed me slightly. He was always watching it.
Then one day I saw a replay of a fight where the punishment dished out to both fighters was so brutal, and the fitness and courage of both fighters to not quit... I almost couldn't comprehend it. Everything was painted with blood at the end, yet somehow it went the distance. [I believe it was the Sonnen vs. Marquardt fight] I've been a fan ever since. Sport at it rawest.
Georges St. Pierre's Superman Punch
That jab by St. Pierre was just amazing. Penn had no answers that night, and that particular punch rocked him mentally and physically. His corner was correct to chuck in the towel [the 4th gif of the link in the OP, if the direct link starts to play up].
but does anyone follow regular boxing at all any more? Seems like the only thing I ever hear anyone talking about is MMA.
I get the same feeling, empath. Look at the measly purse sizes in the Wiki link above. They don't seem right to me, in terms of the popularity of the sport.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:11 PM on September 4, 2011
Then one day I saw a replay of a fight where the punishment dished out to both fighters was so brutal, and the fitness and courage of both fighters to not quit... I almost couldn't comprehend it. Everything was painted with blood at the end, yet somehow it went the distance. [I believe it was the Sonnen vs. Marquardt fight] I've been a fan ever since. Sport at it rawest.
Georges St. Pierre's Superman Punch
That jab by St. Pierre was just amazing. Penn had no answers that night, and that particular punch rocked him mentally and physically. His corner was correct to chuck in the towel [the 4th gif of the link in the OP, if the direct link starts to play up].
but does anyone follow regular boxing at all any more? Seems like the only thing I ever hear anyone talking about is MMA.
I get the same feeling, empath. Look at the measly purse sizes in the Wiki link above. They don't seem right to me, in terms of the popularity of the sport.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:11 PM on September 4, 2011
Am I correct to conclude then that this has website has no affiliation with the Museum of Modern Art?
posted by Flashman at 8:16 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Flashman at 8:16 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
MMA certainly has a following but "the man widely held as the greatest fighter in the world" is clearly Manny Pacquiao.
posted by joannemullen at 8:40 PM on September 4, 2011
posted by joannemullen at 8:40 PM on September 4, 2011
Am I correct to conclude then that this has website has no affiliation with the Museum of Modern Art?
It is the finest of arts. Both ancient and modern.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 8:42 PM on September 4, 2011
It is the finest of arts. Both ancient and modern.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 8:42 PM on September 4, 2011
Am I correct to conclude then that this has website has no affiliation with the Museum of Modern Art?
Get snippy with a docent and you'll see the connection.
CUBISM IN THE OCTAGON
posted by zippy at 8:43 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Get snippy with a docent and you'll see the connection.
CUBISM IN THE OCTAGON
posted by zippy at 8:43 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Nice post! Finest of arts indeed, Bighappyfunhouse. Eddie Bravo demonstrating a double armbar reverse full nelson with Joanne Spracklen is poetry in motion.
posted by lemuring at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by lemuring at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
MMA certainly has a following but "the man widely held as the greatest fighter in the world" is clearly Manny Pacquiao.
He's widely held as the greatest pound-for-pound boxer in the world, for sure.
posted by Bookhouse at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
He's widely held as the greatest pound-for-pound boxer in the world, for sure.
posted by Bookhouse at 8:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Some of this stuff is familiar from my bouncing days in college:
- Always bull forward when trading punches. Never give up momentum for safety.
- Elbows and palm strikes are unexpected, hurt you less and them more than punching someone in the face, delivering more bang for the buck. Knees to the gut are also good, unless they're fat.
- Don't fall, and don't let them trip you. If you fall, do everything you can to get back up, don't even bother trying to protect yourself, it won't help. There's no shame in crawling if it puts a chair-leg or wall in reach, just crawl fast.*
Not on the list:
-350lb slacker belly-splashing a 200lb athlete into a corner, or better yet, bar table wedged into a corner, results in a victorious slacker.
- Kicking a big man in the knee hurts your foot more than his knee unless you have near-superhuman aim and shinguards.
-Reverse head-butt and sideways head-butt. You need a hard head and a high pain tolerance, but if you've got both, you smile when you're put into any sort of headlock. A sharp pop to the nose breaks any damn martial arts hold you can think of. Also, learn to punch behind your head, and how to grab for ears and hair.
- Make sure you're teamed up with a short and angry man who likes you, and likes sucker-punching people who deserve it in the kidneys or side of the head even better.
- Quit and become a projectionist and/or comic book shop clerk at the first opportunity, because the pay is shit, the cops hate you, and the hours suck. Also, scary-hurty-fighty thing is not as cool as advertised. (None of the local MMA or boxers in training I've met ever do security work, if they're serious about being contenders. They're usually gym trainers if they don't have a sponsor/sugar daddy, and one guy who's scarier than I'll ever be worked the register at a liquor store weekday mornings.)
* I have two recurring nightmares from this time - one is, I throw a punch, and the guy just ignores it, or catches it, and laughs at me. The other is, he trips me, and I can't get back up, I just keep stumbling and falling, and I know he's going to land on me any second to punch me in the head. I've Summoned Herculean Strength a time or two in my sleep to force myself to my feet, which results in me rolling off the bed shouting bloody murder. Then I pace for an hour or two to get calm enough to fall asleep again.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:55 PM on September 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
- Always bull forward when trading punches. Never give up momentum for safety.
- Elbows and palm strikes are unexpected, hurt you less and them more than punching someone in the face, delivering more bang for the buck. Knees to the gut are also good, unless they're fat.
- Don't fall, and don't let them trip you. If you fall, do everything you can to get back up, don't even bother trying to protect yourself, it won't help. There's no shame in crawling if it puts a chair-leg or wall in reach, just crawl fast.*
Not on the list:
-350lb slacker belly-splashing a 200lb athlete into a corner, or better yet, bar table wedged into a corner, results in a victorious slacker.
- Kicking a big man in the knee hurts your foot more than his knee unless you have near-superhuman aim and shinguards.
-Reverse head-butt and sideways head-butt. You need a hard head and a high pain tolerance, but if you've got both, you smile when you're put into any sort of headlock. A sharp pop to the nose breaks any damn martial arts hold you can think of. Also, learn to punch behind your head, and how to grab for ears and hair.
- Make sure you're teamed up with a short and angry man who likes you, and likes sucker-punching people who deserve it in the kidneys or side of the head even better.
- Quit and become a projectionist and/or comic book shop clerk at the first opportunity, because the pay is shit, the cops hate you, and the hours suck. Also, scary-hurty-fighty thing is not as cool as advertised. (None of the local MMA or boxers in training I've met ever do security work, if they're serious about being contenders. They're usually gym trainers if they don't have a sponsor/sugar daddy, and one guy who's scarier than I'll ever be worked the register at a liquor store weekday mornings.)
* I have two recurring nightmares from this time - one is, I throw a punch, and the guy just ignores it, or catches it, and laughs at me. The other is, he trips me, and I can't get back up, I just keep stumbling and falling, and I know he's going to land on me any second to punch me in the head. I've Summoned Herculean Strength a time or two in my sleep to force myself to my feet, which results in me rolling off the bed shouting bloody murder. Then I pace for an hour or two to get calm enough to fall asleep again.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:55 PM on September 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
Always bull forward when trading punches. Never give up momentum for safety.
Works against well with John Q Public. God help you if you try this against a trained fighter
Elbows and palm strikes are unexpected, hurt you less and them more than punching someone in the face, delivering more bang for the buck. Knees to the gut are also good, unless they're fat.
The caveman style of fighting will not work in an environment where people are trained. Most bouncers these days will encounter (eventually) people who are active MMA wanna-bees (or an actual fighter). They went to a local dojo, paid big bucks to learn some basics - and are now out drinking in your bar.
Well, good bouncers have serious martial arts training. The "bull forward" mentality works.... if you're 300 pounds. This is the modern world. What you're describing went out the window with early Bert Reyonlds movies.
Reverse head-butt and sideways head-butt. You need a hard head and a high pain tolerance, but if you've got both, you smile when you're put into any sort of headlock. A sharp pop to the nose breaks any damn martial arts hold you can think of. Also, learn to punch behind your head, and how to grab for ears and hair.
Again, if you end up being held from behind - from anyone with any serious training - a reverse head butt isn't going to do squat to help your position.
I'm not trying to dump on you or your experiences as a bouncer. Im just pointing out that the times have changed. It is very common to find someone who had grown up with good martial arts training. Every hard ass in the USA thinks he can take 3 months of MMA training and become invincible. Alcohol helps this perception.
The cool thing is - most of the people who have gone through a good martial arts school will not be the ones fighting you. They will sit on the sidelines watching with amusement - Until it involves their personal safety (or that of a close friend). And if you f with them - you will have what is known as - A Bad Day
Anderson Silva will never confront you in a bar. Some nimrod who has watched his videos and trained for a few months will. Caveman loses every time.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 9:26 PM on September 4, 2011 [6 favorites]
Works against well with John Q Public. God help you if you try this against a trained fighter
Elbows and palm strikes are unexpected, hurt you less and them more than punching someone in the face, delivering more bang for the buck. Knees to the gut are also good, unless they're fat.
The caveman style of fighting will not work in an environment where people are trained. Most bouncers these days will encounter (eventually) people who are active MMA wanna-bees (or an actual fighter). They went to a local dojo, paid big bucks to learn some basics - and are now out drinking in your bar.
Well, good bouncers have serious martial arts training. The "bull forward" mentality works.... if you're 300 pounds. This is the modern world. What you're describing went out the window with early Bert Reyonlds movies.
Reverse head-butt and sideways head-butt. You need a hard head and a high pain tolerance, but if you've got both, you smile when you're put into any sort of headlock. A sharp pop to the nose breaks any damn martial arts hold you can think of. Also, learn to punch behind your head, and how to grab for ears and hair.
Again, if you end up being held from behind - from anyone with any serious training - a reverse head butt isn't going to do squat to help your position.
I'm not trying to dump on you or your experiences as a bouncer. Im just pointing out that the times have changed. It is very common to find someone who had grown up with good martial arts training. Every hard ass in the USA thinks he can take 3 months of MMA training and become invincible. Alcohol helps this perception.
The cool thing is - most of the people who have gone through a good martial arts school will not be the ones fighting you. They will sit on the sidelines watching with amusement - Until it involves their personal safety (or that of a close friend). And if you f with them - you will have what is known as - A Bad Day
Anderson Silva will never confront you in a bar. Some nimrod who has watched his videos and trained for a few months will. Caveman loses every time.
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 9:26 PM on September 4, 2011 [6 favorites]
People with serious training don't start shit in bars, or are too plastered to remember their training.
The single greatest weapon a bouncer has in a fight is sobriety.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:38 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
The single greatest weapon a bouncer has in a fight is sobriety.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:38 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, that and a DVD of definitive barfight how-to, UFC 4.
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 9:44 PM on September 4, 2011
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 9:44 PM on September 4, 2011
We should start a Metafilter MMA league, like the cycling challenge.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:54 PM on September 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
People with serious training don't start shit in bars, or are too plastered to remember their training.
I've had some training. You - the bouncer - walk up one me. I'm in the middle of a confrontation with a drunk moron. Something I didn't even start. You decide that I'm the bad guy and grab me - after I knock you out, remember that I was too plastered to start shit
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 9:56 PM on September 4, 2011
I've had some training. You - the bouncer - walk up one me. I'm in the middle of a confrontation with a drunk moron. Something I didn't even start. You decide that I'm the bad guy and grab me - after I knock you out, remember that I was too plastered to start shit
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 9:56 PM on September 4, 2011
Come on, we all know where the best training for bar fights comes from.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:03 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Bookhouse at 10:03 PM on September 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Alright fellas, I believe the whole bar fight scenario has been explained extensively before.
posted by lemuring at 10:04 PM on September 4, 2011
posted by lemuring at 10:04 PM on September 4, 2011
I think you kind of need to do the job for a little bit. If you're not a thug, things generally don't work that way. Unless the owner has brought in his minor-league hockey team to work the place during Race Week, in which case, yeah, pretty much like that, only you have ten more of them headed your way, and none of them speak english as a first language. You're only sort of fucked if the Canadians or Swedes get to you before the Russians do.
Meanwhile, the regular bouncers are sitting on barstools out in the bike lot, hoping to christ the hog-thieves in the white van circling the place aren't armed, because the cops are not coming, and the boss says you're all fired if a bike gets boosted this year.
Good times! All this for $7/hr. in cash under the table.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:16 PM on September 4, 2011
Meanwhile, the regular bouncers are sitting on barstools out in the bike lot, hoping to christ the hog-thieves in the white van circling the place aren't armed, because the cops are not coming, and the boss says you're all fired if a bike gets boosted this year.
Good times! All this for $7/hr. in cash under the table.
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:16 PM on September 4, 2011
Patrick Swayze? No way! It's really is you! I had a feeling
I'm apologize from my heart bro!
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 10:23 PM on September 4, 2011
I'm apologize from my heart bro!
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 10:23 PM on September 4, 2011
Read in GSP's voice:
"Being a bouncer, according to me, it's more being able to talk and being able to use words instead of your arms to do the job..."posted by lemuring at 10:26 PM on September 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Patrick Swayze? No way! It's really is you! I had a feeling
Yeah, this is kind of the Godwin's Law when discussing working as a bouncer on the internet. It invariably comes down to someone claiming they could kill you with their karate, and then they accuse you of being Patrick Swayze when you try to tell them that you talk most of the people out of the bar.
Ah, well, it was only half a year. I'm 15+ years older and have bum knees from being so heavy, so yeah, I'm not much of a bad-ass these days, and even back then, I leapt at the chance to be a projectionist.
Guys who do bar security for a living run into this all the time, to the point most of them don't bother telling anyone what they do.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:21 PM on September 4, 2011
Yeah, this is kind of the Godwin's Law when discussing working as a bouncer on the internet. It invariably comes down to someone claiming they could kill you with their karate, and then they accuse you of being Patrick Swayze when you try to tell them that you talk most of the people out of the bar.
Ah, well, it was only half a year. I'm 15+ years older and have bum knees from being so heavy, so yeah, I'm not much of a bad-ass these days, and even back then, I leapt at the chance to be a projectionist.
Guys who do bar security for a living run into this all the time, to the point most of them don't bother telling anyone what they do.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:21 PM on September 4, 2011
A great post. One cannot ever go past possibly the most surprising result ever - Anderson Silva caught flying scissor heel hook
posted by greenhornet at 12:28 AM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by greenhornet at 12:28 AM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
MMA certainly has a following but "the man widely held as the greatest fighter in the world" is clearly Manny Pacquiao.
That'd be The Honourable Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao to you sir. In May 2010, Pacquiao was elected to the House of Representatives in the 15th Congress of the Philippines, representing the province of Sarangani.
He is also the current WBO welterweight champion and has been world champion in EIGHT weight classes. The man is a menace.
Having grown up watching Ali and Frasier alongside my dad who is a fanatical boxing fan, I can't get into MMA. For me it's a little too much like professional wresting. Too much Flair and not enough sweet science. Boxers throw punches like pitchers throw baseballs and if you don't know it in detail, you miss the detail.
It invariably comes down to someone claiming they could kill you with their karate,
How To Predict The Winner Of A Bar Fight is interesting, but based on my personal observations (I spend a lot of time in seedy bars) generally the bigger man always wins. If a guy outweighs you by 50lbs and is a head taller, you should leave him be regardless of your fighting skills.
posted by three blind mice at 1:15 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
That'd be The Honourable Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao to you sir. In May 2010, Pacquiao was elected to the House of Representatives in the 15th Congress of the Philippines, representing the province of Sarangani.
He is also the current WBO welterweight champion and has been world champion in EIGHT weight classes. The man is a menace.
Having grown up watching Ali and Frasier alongside my dad who is a fanatical boxing fan, I can't get into MMA. For me it's a little too much like professional wresting. Too much Flair and not enough sweet science. Boxers throw punches like pitchers throw baseballs and if you don't know it in detail, you miss the detail.
It invariably comes down to someone claiming they could kill you with their karate,
How To Predict The Winner Of A Bar Fight is interesting, but based on my personal observations (I spend a lot of time in seedy bars) generally the bigger man always wins. If a guy outweighs you by 50lbs and is a head taller, you should leave him be regardless of your fighting skills.
posted by three blind mice at 1:15 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
You - the bouncer - walk up one me. I'm in the middle of a confrontation with a drunk moron. Something I didn't even start. You decide that I'm the bad guy and grab me - after I knock you out, remember that I was too plastered to start shit
You know, I've never seen that happen. As Slap*Happy is explaining, the bouncer is doing a shitty job, for shitty pay, and deals with more drunk morons than a flight attendant. He may not be the toughest guy in the bar, but he has the support of the owner, the waitstaff, the civilians (like myself) who just want to drink, and all those bikers for whom that bar is a second home.
He's not working for tips, but a smart owner will slide him a few extra bills after a particularly rowdy night. I've done it myself.
They absolutely do not want trouble and do not care who is right or wrong or who started it. I watch these guys. They see you from the moment you start eyeballing your opponent. They soberly pick the person that they can best and quickest get under control, subdue him as quickly and as painlessly as possible, and throw both idiots out into the parking lot.
They also have a great memory for faces. Once banned, you never get in again.
Give him his propers.
posted by three blind mice at 1:37 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know, I've never seen that happen. As Slap*Happy is explaining, the bouncer is doing a shitty job, for shitty pay, and deals with more drunk morons than a flight attendant. He may not be the toughest guy in the bar, but he has the support of the owner, the waitstaff, the civilians (like myself) who just want to drink, and all those bikers for whom that bar is a second home.
He's not working for tips, but a smart owner will slide him a few extra bills after a particularly rowdy night. I've done it myself.
They absolutely do not want trouble and do not care who is right or wrong or who started it. I watch these guys. They see you from the moment you start eyeballing your opponent. They soberly pick the person that they can best and quickest get under control, subdue him as quickly and as painlessly as possible, and throw both idiots out into the parking lot.
They also have a great memory for faces. Once banned, you never get in again.
Give him his propers.
posted by three blind mice at 1:37 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
If a guy outweighs you by 50lbs and is a head taller, you should leave him be
But if he outweighs you by 300lbs and is 7" taller - you still have a chance.
posted by bashos_frog at 6:27 AM on September 5, 2011
But if he outweighs you by 300lbs and is 7" taller - you still have a chance.
posted by bashos_frog at 6:27 AM on September 5, 2011
How did an MMA post result in discussion of barfights? Opera FPP's don't provoke long analyses of which tunes we like to wail in the shower.
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 6:34 AM on September 5, 2011
posted by Kandarp Von Bontee at 6:34 AM on September 5, 2011
5 time world champion kickboxer Michael Kuhr working as a bouncer: Let us speak boldly, as men do
posted by Comrade_robot at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Comrade_robot at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2011 [6 favorites]
Is there a site anyone can recommend where I can watch highlights of any UFC fight?
They seem to be very protective of their rights and yank a lot of clips off video hosting sites, which is fair enough. But there's a truckload of UFC stuff on there that they haven't bothered to pull. And then a lot of that turns out to be farking XBox UFC uploads, or even worse.
It's a minefield out there. A moment ago I got rickrolled by the Teletubbies after clicking on a Lesnar vs. Couture link. Not funny.
I don't want to pirate stuff, I don't want full fights in HD. Just a normal site that is licensed to show fight highlights with a minimum of gumpf.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2011
They seem to be very protective of their rights and yank a lot of clips off video hosting sites, which is fair enough. But there's a truckload of UFC stuff on there that they haven't bothered to pull. And then a lot of that turns out to be farking XBox UFC uploads, or even worse.
It's a minefield out there. A moment ago I got rickrolled by the Teletubbies after clicking on a Lesnar vs. Couture link. Not funny.
I don't want to pirate stuff, I don't want full fights in HD. Just a normal site that is licensed to show fight highlights with a minimum of gumpf.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 7:01 AM on September 5, 2011
Uncanny: Difficult to do. Try renting DVDs, or going to a bar to watch the PPVs if money is an issue. They are worth it.
three blind mice: Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the sport. If you watch and expect the guys to be boxers like pro boxers are, you will never see that. OR you will see that guy lose. MMA is not supposed to be, never claimed to be, obviously is not boxing.
Manny Pacquiao is not the greatest fighter in the world, he is the greatest boxer in the world. To say he is is the same as saying Michael Jordan is the best at any sport that has a ball in the world.
There is plenty of 'sweet science' in MMA, it just comes in different flavors. The complexity and subtlety, and inevitability of the highest level of jiu-jitsu is pretty scientific, and totally sweet. Muay thai is a sport that has enjoyed popularity for quite a bit longer (I believe) than 'Western' boxing, and the folks who have been training their whole lives doing it have surely got it down to 'a science.'
When I hear comments like UFC is like WWF from boxing fans, I hear people scared their sport is going to disappear. And if you boxing scientists aren't careful, it will.
The single aspect of MMA, and the UFC, that makes me feel the most good about watching it is the sportsmanship. Don't get me wrong, I love to watch boxing, when an MMA fight is over, the fighters shake hands or hug. If it was a good fight, quite often they'll talk and slap backs and say, I assume, "Wow, I hated it when you kneed me in the eye!" or "You need to smell better for fights!" If it was a great fight, it's not uncommon to see two fighters who were just trying to destroy one another down on their knees talking and thanking one another at the end of everything.
And when interviewed, the loser says "Welp, got my ass kicked! Sorry!" Basically. I've never heard a boxer say "Yeah man, I trained really hard but he just got the better for me."
I'm sure it has happened, it just seems more seldom.
UFC payouts aren't on the level of boxing's mega-multi-million dollar payouts. Champions make around $250k for a title fight, down to maybe $15k for prelim fighters, and all the numbers are steadily climbing as things are picking up pace. But interestingly, the UFC has a pretty robust bonus system. Fighters get a bonus (at least $5k, not sure these days) for finishing the fight by KO, TKO or submission. There are big fight of the night bonuses too. At the UFC Brazil, I heard that all the bonuses were supersized, upwards of 100k. So that puts a lot of fire into the fighters to go in there and finish the fight.
MMA fighters get money to take risks. The opposite of that is boxing. They stand to lose so much potential pay if they lose the fight, that they seem to focus primarily on never being in any danger.
If you say it's like a chess match, I say I'm an avid chess player and that sounds like boring chess, too.
If you are a fan of fight sports, give it a real try. Watch the next couple events. You might be surprised, it's fantastically exciting. And Joe Rogan makes sure you know what's going on.
posted by TheRedArmy at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
three blind mice: Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the sport. If you watch and expect the guys to be boxers like pro boxers are, you will never see that. OR you will see that guy lose. MMA is not supposed to be, never claimed to be, obviously is not boxing.
Manny Pacquiao is not the greatest fighter in the world, he is the greatest boxer in the world. To say he is is the same as saying Michael Jordan is the best at any sport that has a ball in the world.
There is plenty of 'sweet science' in MMA, it just comes in different flavors. The complexity and subtlety, and inevitability of the highest level of jiu-jitsu is pretty scientific, and totally sweet. Muay thai is a sport that has enjoyed popularity for quite a bit longer (I believe) than 'Western' boxing, and the folks who have been training their whole lives doing it have surely got it down to 'a science.'
When I hear comments like UFC is like WWF from boxing fans, I hear people scared their sport is going to disappear. And if you boxing scientists aren't careful, it will.
The single aspect of MMA, and the UFC, that makes me feel the most good about watching it is the sportsmanship. Don't get me wrong, I love to watch boxing, when an MMA fight is over, the fighters shake hands or hug. If it was a good fight, quite often they'll talk and slap backs and say, I assume, "Wow, I hated it when you kneed me in the eye!" or "You need to smell better for fights!" If it was a great fight, it's not uncommon to see two fighters who were just trying to destroy one another down on their knees talking and thanking one another at the end of everything.
And when interviewed, the loser says "Welp, got my ass kicked! Sorry!" Basically. I've never heard a boxer say "Yeah man, I trained really hard but he just got the better for me."
I'm sure it has happened, it just seems more seldom.
UFC payouts aren't on the level of boxing's mega-multi-million dollar payouts. Champions make around $250k for a title fight, down to maybe $15k for prelim fighters, and all the numbers are steadily climbing as things are picking up pace. But interestingly, the UFC has a pretty robust bonus system. Fighters get a bonus (at least $5k, not sure these days) for finishing the fight by KO, TKO or submission. There are big fight of the night bonuses too. At the UFC Brazil, I heard that all the bonuses were supersized, upwards of 100k. So that puts a lot of fire into the fighters to go in there and finish the fight.
MMA fighters get money to take risks. The opposite of that is boxing. They stand to lose so much potential pay if they lose the fight, that they seem to focus primarily on never being in any danger.
If you say it's like a chess match, I say I'm an avid chess player and that sounds like boring chess, too.
If you are a fan of fight sports, give it a real try. Watch the next couple events. You might be surprised, it's fantastically exciting. And Joe Rogan makes sure you know what's going on.
posted by TheRedArmy at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2011 [10 favorites]
Also, the term MMA really does mean something now, and the next generation of fighters is the first generation of purebred raised-on-MMA fighters. Until recently, MMA was mostly made up of people from other backgrounds like wrestling, jiu-jitsu or kickboxing. Now we have 21 year old kids that have been training with only MMA in mind for 10 years. Jon Jones, Rory MacDonald. You'll hear those names a lot.
As the money gets bigger, I fear for the quality. Time will tell. Right now it's A+++++.
posted by TheRedArmy at 8:24 AM on September 5, 2011
As the money gets bigger, I fear for the quality. Time will tell. Right now it's A+++++.
posted by TheRedArmy at 8:24 AM on September 5, 2011
Having grown up watching Ali ... I can't get into MMA. For me it's a little too much like professional wresting. Too much Flair
You must have watched some pretty bad MMA. Hell, even former professional wrestler Brock Lesnar doesn't have half as much "Flair" in him as Muhammad Ali did. It's not even close. And if you think someone like Georges St. Pierre, who is a black belt in both Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu and Kyokushin Karate, and who trains his boxing with Freddie Roach and his wrestling with the Canadian Olympic team, is lacking in sweet science, I'm not sure what to tell you.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:49 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
You must have watched some pretty bad MMA. Hell, even former professional wrestler Brock Lesnar doesn't have half as much "Flair" in him as Muhammad Ali did. It's not even close. And if you think someone like Georges St. Pierre, who is a black belt in both Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu and Kyokushin Karate, and who trains his boxing with Freddie Roach and his wrestling with the Canadian Olympic team, is lacking in sweet science, I'm not sure what to tell you.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:49 AM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hey you guys. I think Kareem's Sky Hook is really awesome and is way better than anything I've ever seen Beckham do on the field. Also, who would win: a bear or a shark?
posted by P.o.B. at 9:50 AM on September 5, 2011
posted by P.o.B. at 9:50 AM on September 5, 2011
Well, first we'd need to decide where the fight takes place. Since the bear is a land animal and the shark is an ocean-dweller, the only fair place to fight is falling through the air.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:06 AM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Bookhouse at 10:06 AM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Also, who would win: a bear or a shark?
Under unified rules? In a cage or in a ring? Need moar details.
Also, did anyone see Like Water the Anderson Silva documentary? I know it was shown at the Tribeca film festival this year.
posted by Sailormom at 10:08 AM on September 5, 2011
Under unified rules? In a cage or in a ring? Need moar details.
Also, did anyone see Like Water the Anderson Silva documentary? I know it was shown at the Tribeca film festival this year.
posted by Sailormom at 10:08 AM on September 5, 2011
One thing I've really enjoyed about MMA is how genuinely nice the fighters are. At my BJJ academy, we've had seminars by Shogun Rua, and Anderson Silva, and I saw Bigfoot Silva training before his fight with Fedor. From what I heard and saw, all of them were happy to interact with the students and none of them was really full of himself in the way that other sports figures and celebrities can often be. Having chatted with Bigfoot before his fight, I was really happy to see him win, and not at all surprised to see how humble and honored he was to have been fighting Fedor. (Also - he's scary big, fast and strong)
My teacher, Vitor 'Shaolin' Ribeiro just semi-retired from MMA to focus on his school, and the concern he has for his students and their progress is palpable. He's constantly teaching, and imparting a love of BJJ and MMA. Training with him and the other students has been a genuinely life-changing experience for this middle-aged nerd.
posted by bashos_frog at 10:28 AM on September 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
My teacher, Vitor 'Shaolin' Ribeiro just semi-retired from MMA to focus on his school, and the concern he has for his students and their progress is palpable. He's constantly teaching, and imparting a love of BJJ and MMA. Training with him and the other students has been a genuinely life-changing experience for this middle-aged nerd.
posted by bashos_frog at 10:28 AM on September 5, 2011 [4 favorites]
When I hear comments like UFC is like WWF from boxing fans, I hear people scared their sport is going to disappear.
I hear people in denial about how rigged their sport is. Because if anything's like WWE, it's the sport where Don King and the Mafia have decided who's going to win for decades.
posted by rodgerd at 12:05 PM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hear people in denial about how rigged their sport is. Because if anything's like WWE, it's the sport where Don King and the Mafia have decided who's going to win for decades.
posted by rodgerd at 12:05 PM on September 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
Am I correct to conclude then that this has website has no affiliation with the Museum of Modern Art?
These fights often turn the mat into a Jackson Pollock.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:33 PM on September 5, 2011
These fights often turn the mat into a Jackson Pollock.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:33 PM on September 5, 2011
A recent, short interview with Lorenzo Fertitta, the co-owner of the UFC, regarding the origins of the UFC and the future of MMA. Pt.1 Pt.2
posted by lemuring at 4:59 PM on September 5, 2011
posted by lemuring at 4:59 PM on September 5, 2011
> And Joe Rogan makes sure you know what's going on.
Yes. His value to the UFC franchise is immense, speaking from a "recent UFC convert who has had rock-all fighting/grappling training" point of view. He talks you thru the boring [heh!] technical grappling bits and makes them interesting, he has a huge mental library of stats and facts, and when he cranks up the volume his excitement is genuine.
Then he'll throw his arm around the winner and do the vox pop after the fight. Joe will try and ask questions, but if the fighter wants to ignore him and give a SHOUT OUT to his crew and go "Woo! Waah! Weeee!" then he'll happily keep the mic there and let him. He's got it all, fantastic commentator.
Plus the other guy is a bit of a buffoon, and Joe is always patient with him, doesn't go the cheap putdown like some sports commentators do [Buffer is also a buffoon but I'm talking about the other buffoon].
posted by uncanny hengeman at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yes. His value to the UFC franchise is immense, speaking from a "recent UFC convert who has had rock-all fighting/grappling training" point of view. He talks you thru the boring [heh!] technical grappling bits and makes them interesting, he has a huge mental library of stats and facts, and when he cranks up the volume his excitement is genuine.
Then he'll throw his arm around the winner and do the vox pop after the fight. Joe will try and ask questions, but if the fighter wants to ignore him and give a SHOUT OUT to his crew and go "Woo! Waah! Weeee!" then he'll happily keep the mic there and let him. He's got it all, fantastic commentator.
Plus the other guy is a bit of a buffoon, and Joe is always patient with him, doesn't go the cheap putdown like some sports commentators do [Buffer is also a buffoon but I'm talking about the other buffoon].
posted by uncanny hengeman at 5:40 PM on September 5, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is a fantastically-timed FPP for me. I watched my first UFC bouts just last week, with Silva and Yushin Okami and the rest of the guys fighting that same night.
I wasn't so into it at first, as it was 10am here in Australia and I was sleepily sitting in a dingy pub to accompany a sports-mad friend. But after the first few fights I was as avid as anybody, it's terrifically exciting to watch.
And watching Silva after the rest of them was a damn revelation - you can see how exactly and precisely he scopes out the other guys, it was fascinating to watch him go through a series of test moves, on-the-fly process what he'd learned and then use it straight away.
I loved the same thing as you too, bashos_frog - it was a surprise to see how friendly and respectful they all were, none of the bullshit posturing I was expecting. Really enjoyed that.
posted by pseudonymph at 6:27 PM on September 5, 2011
I wasn't so into it at first, as it was 10am here in Australia and I was sleepily sitting in a dingy pub to accompany a sports-mad friend. But after the first few fights I was as avid as anybody, it's terrifically exciting to watch.
And watching Silva after the rest of them was a damn revelation - you can see how exactly and precisely he scopes out the other guys, it was fascinating to watch him go through a series of test moves, on-the-fly process what he'd learned and then use it straight away.
I loved the same thing as you too, bashos_frog - it was a surprise to see how friendly and respectful they all were, none of the bullshit posturing I was expecting. Really enjoyed that.
posted by pseudonymph at 6:27 PM on September 5, 2011
The UFC is most definitely one of the best run sports organizations in the world right now and is pretty much putting boxing out of business. Of all things that the UFC does right there's really only one that matters. Champions fight the number one contender consistantly. There are never any fluff fights for the champions, even when it would be against the ufc's best interest for them to lose. Look at Uriah Faber, he is a huge market draw but he can't win the big fights. UFC puts him out there against the top guys not just guys he can beat easily.
Compare that to Boxing, Floyd Mayweather would have gotten kicked out of the UFC if he decided he didn't want to fight Manny Pacquiao. That whole situation would NEVER exist in the ufc.
The only situation that has ever happened was when Fedor wouldn't fight in the UFC because M1 wouldn't let him out of his contract. Back when Pride was stronger too, you had some champions that took a while to face eachother also, but that's over now, so is Fedor unfortunately.
posted by LouieLoco at 8:56 AM on September 6, 2011
Compare that to Boxing, Floyd Mayweather would have gotten kicked out of the UFC if he decided he didn't want to fight Manny Pacquiao. That whole situation would NEVER exist in the ufc.
The only situation that has ever happened was when Fedor wouldn't fight in the UFC because M1 wouldn't let him out of his contract. Back when Pride was stronger too, you had some champions that took a while to face eachother also, but that's over now, so is Fedor unfortunately.
posted by LouieLoco at 8:56 AM on September 6, 2011
to my fencing trained eye, the anchor punch looks like a lot like a stop hit.
posted by spindle at 10:37 AM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Interception - the stop hit is considered the highest level of skill in both systems [fencing and jeet kune do]. An attacker is most vulnerable when his mind is focused on his own attack. Bruce Lee considered the stop-hit so important that he named his system after it. Jeet Kune Do - "The Way of the Intercepting Fist", is a name that embodies the highest level of what a Fencer knows as "Attack on Preparation" or attacking as the opponent prepares his attack. As we shall see in Part 2 of this series, attacks on preparation are an important tactical skill, with differing methods used such as the simple stop-hit and the stop-hit in opposition. We may also discuss counter time, the method used to beat the stop-hit!it's not quite it; the anchor punch as Silva and Ali use it interrupts a chain of attacks, not the preparation of a single attack, like in fencing, but the principle is similar enough to warrant mention and the difference possibly one of the very different circumstances of an MMA or boxing match. by interrupting a chain of attacks they have the attacker's momentum working against him to give the stop hit its power, and because power is simply not a concern for a fencer there's no need to wait for the attacker to build up that momentum.
posted by spindle at 10:37 AM on September 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
31 things youre not allowed to do during an ultimate fighting championship bout
posted by hubs at 10:27 AM on September 8, 2011
posted by hubs at 10:27 AM on September 8, 2011
« Older David Lean's "Lawrence of Arabia" | SOA Music Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by empath at 7:15 PM on September 4, 2011