Will Graham's No Good Very Bad Day
October 16, 2013 10:01 PM Subscribe
Crackvids are the genre of fandom videos playing out of context or absurd audio over clips of thier favorite media but rarely do they meet the heights of this video for NBC's super serious high-Gothic drama about serial killers, Hannibal. (SLYTP, NSFW audio, SPOILERS, general fandom silliness)
I was exposed to the (terrifying/amazing) Hannibal fandom before I ever saw the show, courtesy of a certain young lady's tumbly-blog
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:15 PM on October 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:15 PM on October 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
The show itself, btw, is totally worth watching. The first few episodes, I thought it was gonna be merely a CSI clone with higher-concept killers and a Hannibal theme, but it really turned into something special and twisted.
I'd recommend it to anyone who can handle gore. One of the murders on the show (the nurse) is quite possibly one of the most brutal things I've seen on TV, if not movies as well.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:23 PM on October 16, 2013
I'd recommend it to anyone who can handle gore. One of the murders on the show (the nurse) is quite possibly one of the most brutal things I've seen on TV, if not movies as well.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:23 PM on October 16, 2013
Some of that video is hilarious even if I thought it went on too long. The bit with Evil Scully (as Whelk mentions) is great, and the Fargo bit was hilarious. It does contain major spoilers though.
Also the food on Hannibal is easily the most appetizing I have ever seen on television. Absolutely mouth-watering. Even with... you know.
posted by Justinian at 10:38 PM on October 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also the food on Hannibal is easily the most appetizing I have ever seen on television. Absolutely mouth-watering. Even with... you know.
posted by Justinian at 10:38 PM on October 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Hannibal is a really good show--I hope they actually get to do the whole seven season plan. (Though Hannibal the book is terrible, so hopefully they'll deviate from it a bit...)
As cinematic and heavy and dark and surreal as the show is, I completely adore how wacky and cracktastic the fandom is. The official tumblr has a checklist for all the cast and crew they've gotten to pose in flower crowns! (Pretty much everyone. Even Mads Mikkelsen and Laurence Fishburne.)
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 PM on October 16, 2013
As cinematic and heavy and dark and surreal as the show is, I completely adore how wacky and cracktastic the fandom is. The official tumblr has a checklist for all the cast and crew they've gotten to pose in flower crowns! (Pretty much everyone. Even Mads Mikkelsen and Laurence Fishburne.)
posted by lovecrafty at 10:43 PM on October 16, 2013
This is still my favorite Hannibal video. It's just so... delightfully misleading if you've never seen the show and don't speak any Korean.
Also, add me to the list of people who were sucked into Hannibal exclusively on the basis of how hilarious the Tumblr fans were. (NBC's official Hannibal Tumblr has some of the funniest tags around.)
The show itself is a hallucinatory, skin-crawling delight. I'm not much into horror so maybe that's why it seems so incredibly unique to me, but it really is unlike anything else I've ever seen on TV.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:44 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, add me to the list of people who were sucked into Hannibal exclusively on the basis of how hilarious the Tumblr fans were. (NBC's official Hannibal Tumblr has some of the funniest tags around.)
The show itself is a hallucinatory, skin-crawling delight. I'm not much into horror so maybe that's why it seems so incredibly unique to me, but it really is unlike anything else I've ever seen on TV.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:44 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is my design.
posted by Artw at 10:45 PM on October 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:45 PM on October 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I was always a little disturbed by the fact that I would watch Hannibal and by hungry by the end of the episode. And if I ever take a cooking class like I've been meaning to, I'm going to cite this show as the reason why, and it will be the God's honest truth.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:50 PM on October 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by MrBadExample at 10:50 PM on October 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Sometimes he cooks things that aren't person. Probably.
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on October 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on October 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hannibal is a really good show
Hannibal is the only show I've ever experienced where, going in with crazy theories about staging and production design, I actually find I'm not looking hard enough into things. I totally missed the crazy blocking with Abigail in relation to will in the office scenes and apparently That Was Totally On Purpose.
Like serious, I have a whole theory about the color red being used as moral/ethical contagion and it's totally borne out by stuff the creator and production designers have said and cause I could probobly write a B+ paper now on the use of a limited color palette in the first half of this show cause DAMN is that a great color sense.
posted by The Whelk at 10:53 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hannibal is the only show I've ever experienced where, going in with crazy theories about staging and production design, I actually find I'm not looking hard enough into things. I totally missed the crazy blocking with Abigail in relation to will in the office scenes and apparently That Was Totally On Purpose.
Like serious, I have a whole theory about the color red being used as moral/ethical contagion and it's totally borne out by stuff the creator and production designers have said and cause I could probobly write a B+ paper now on the use of a limited color palette in the first half of this show cause DAMN is that a great color sense.
posted by The Whelk at 10:53 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was always a little disturbed by the fact that I would watch Hannibal and by hungry by the end of the episode.
sorry
posted by The Whelk at 10:55 PM on October 16, 2013
sorry
posted by The Whelk at 10:55 PM on October 16, 2013
Oh, God, that reminds me, I went and got my hair drastically cut at the local salon school recently and the student actually cutting was being guided by her instructor the whole time-- which, good, but the student was clearly nervous and a little jittery about things, so the instructor kept saying, "You need to have a hair design. What's your design? Show me the design..."
Eventually when things were almost finished the student picked up one of those weird-looking hair-razor things and looked over at her instructor and said, "This is my design," and I had a brief momentary flash of oh god i am going to die right here.
The haircut was great, though.
Speaking of food, Hannibal is the reason I know that lung meat is not sold for consumption in the US. After I saw the lung-pressing and preparation scene I had to go looking. If I ever find any I have my recipe all picked out.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:55 PM on October 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
Eventually when things were almost finished the student picked up one of those weird-looking hair-razor things and looked over at her instructor and said, "This is my design," and I had a brief momentary flash of oh god i am going to die right here.
The haircut was great, though.
Speaking of food, Hannibal is the reason I know that lung meat is not sold for consumption in the US. After I saw the lung-pressing and preparation scene I had to go looking. If I ever find any I have my recipe all picked out.
posted by WidgetAlley at 10:55 PM on October 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
This show is the reason I am looking for a decent supply of chicken hearts.
posted by The Whelk at 10:57 PM on October 16, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 10:57 PM on October 16, 2013
I totally missed the crazy blocking with Abigail in relation to will in the office scenes and apparently That Was Totally On Purpose.
Elucidate this please.
posted by Justinian at 11:01 PM on October 16, 2013
Elucidate this please.
posted by Justinian at 11:01 PM on October 16, 2013
Would it be a derail for this to turn into an organ-meats-recipe thread? I mean, it's topical....
(If you ever have a big hunk of fresh tough venison, I suggested brining it with vanilla, tamarind and juniper before braising, then adding some of the brine to a reduced sauce made from the roast juices. Which is how watching one episode of Hannibal at 9 a.m. consumed, so to speak, the rest of my day.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:03 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
(If you ever have a big hunk of fresh tough venison, I suggested brining it with vanilla, tamarind and juniper before braising, then adding some of the brine to a reduced sauce made from the roast juices. Which is how watching one episode of Hannibal at 9 a.m. consumed, so to speak, the rest of my day.)
posted by WidgetAlley at 11:03 PM on October 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I totally missed the crazy blocking with Abigail in relation to will in the office scenes and apparently That Was Totally On Purpose.
Elucidate this please.
Basically, the early Hannibal Office scenes are lit and staged like a stage set, not like a TV or movie drama, and the upper levels (all books) are where characters are introduced before descending into Hannibal's Gothic Arch'ed, red-walled office (Hell!) and Abigail is talked down into it in a different way than Will, like "getting a cat out of a tree" is the line I think Fuller used. But yes, apparently that is a A Thing
In most shows that wouldn't be a thing but apparently if you talk to the development and production team of Hannibal, yes, they thought about that, that was A Thing.
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 PM on October 16, 2013 [10 favorites]
I really, really, really just want to make a video of all the cutaways to Hannibal either watching people eat food, or just watching bemused as people wonder who the killer might be, and superimpose Ernie from Sesame Street's laugh.
posted by Shepherd at 3:44 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Shepherd at 3:44 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was exposed to the (terrifying/amazing) Hannibal fandom before I ever saw the show, courtesy of a certain young lady's tumbly-blog
As was I. In fact, the Red Thoughts consort and I both have warm fuzzy feelings about Hannibal, pretty much because the fandom is so adorable.
Also, the food stylist for Hannibal (they have a food stylist!) has a blog about her work on the show.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
As was I. In fact, the Red Thoughts consort and I both have warm fuzzy feelings about Hannibal, pretty much because the fandom is so adorable.
Also, the food stylist for Hannibal (they have a food stylist!) has a blog about her work on the show.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I was exposed to the (terrifying/amazing) Hannibal fandom before I ever saw the show, courtesy of a certain young lady's tumbly-blog
The suggestion to watch Hannibal turned out great, but Teen Wolf has thus far proven a bust.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:53 AM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
The suggestion to watch Hannibal turned out great, but Teen Wolf has thus far proven a bust.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:53 AM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
All they really need to do is replace the soundtrack with the "Good Eats" theme.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:09 AM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:09 AM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is a bartender at a brewery in my neighborhood who bears an uncanny resemblance to Hugh Dancy.
I desperately want to ask him to draw a clock-face every time I go there.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:49 AM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
I desperately want to ask him to draw a clock-face every time I go there.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:49 AM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Swiggity swag
I am enjoying some of these tags.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2013
I am enjoying some of these tags.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2013
aw, I miss Hannibal. Come back!
posted by likeatoaster at 8:31 AM on October 17, 2013
posted by likeatoaster at 8:31 AM on October 17, 2013
With some TV shows I find myself appreciating certain elements of the show, sometimes its in multiples - the script and the acting, maybe the sets and the costumes too. But with Hannibal absolutely everything is excellent: the cinematography, the acting, the script, the lighting, the sound, the music, the costumes, the sets, the furniture, the food. This is some genius level television.
posted by Ness at 8:46 AM on October 17, 2013
posted by Ness at 8:46 AM on October 17, 2013
I'm also pretty fond of the Scott Thompson.
posted by griphus at 8:53 AM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by griphus at 8:53 AM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
I like how in any other procedural crime show we'd spend a lot of time with the forensics team, getting all kinds of dubious explanations onto why and how they uncover things, but on this show they just kind of act as a Greek chorus and fade in and out of focus as needed.
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 AM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 AM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
YES. I've been trying to nail down what the odd quality of the CSI/Bones-style procedural elements was and "Greek chorus" is exactly it. Using the procedural formula and then minimizing the procedural stuff as much as possible was such a good decision. Because on the opposite end you have a show like Grimm, wherein the procedural elements are so hackneyed and unnecessary that bringing them up-front ruins the show.
However, I did really enjoy the line, which I can't remember verbatim at the moment, when one of the team, in reference to Will Graham taking time off the case, says "oh, does that mean we can go back to doing real police work?"
posted by griphus at 9:06 AM on October 17, 2013
However, I did really enjoy the line, which I can't remember verbatim at the moment, when one of the team, in reference to Will Graham taking time off the case, says "oh, does that mean we can go back to doing real police work?"
posted by griphus at 9:06 AM on October 17, 2013
Hey now manic pixie dream detective, our real police work ends where your magic powers begin. Go to your thought palace.
Watching the featurettes on the DVD really drives home how well-thought out and integrated all the aspects of this show are*. From the white asparagus in Freddie's salad arranged to resemble a human hand bones to the surround sound whirring of the native american instruments when Will starts to have his Wendigo Fantasia to the fact that Bedelia and Hannibal part their hair in the same way and are always shot in therapy sessions as if they're looking into a mirror and talking to themselves (as opposed to the usual side shot set-up we see in the majority of the therapy scenes, fun fact, Will is also shot this way sometimes). It's just so rewarding to have something so clearly crafted and fussied over and loved. You can totally tell how much of Thomas Harris fanboy Fuller is in the interviews, not to mention the non-stop injokes (Dr. Gideon (EDDIE FREAKING IZZARD) is basically doing an Anthony Hopkins impression - Dr. Gideon was the place-holder name for Lector in one of the Silence Of The Lmabs scripts before they where sure they could get the rights). and call-forwards. It's just a stunningly crafted act of love. (Best Red Dragon fanfic ever!)
*Guess how long it took me to realize the plants in Hannibal's dining room shelves are herbs and that Bedelia has a similar arrangement in HER kitchen.
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 AM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
Watching the featurettes on the DVD really drives home how well-thought out and integrated all the aspects of this show are*. From the white asparagus in Freddie's salad arranged to resemble a human hand bones to the surround sound whirring of the native american instruments when Will starts to have his Wendigo Fantasia to the fact that Bedelia and Hannibal part their hair in the same way and are always shot in therapy sessions as if they're looking into a mirror and talking to themselves (as opposed to the usual side shot set-up we see in the majority of the therapy scenes, fun fact, Will is also shot this way sometimes). It's just so rewarding to have something so clearly crafted and fussied over and loved. You can totally tell how much of Thomas Harris fanboy Fuller is in the interviews, not to mention the non-stop injokes (Dr. Gideon (EDDIE FREAKING IZZARD) is basically doing an Anthony Hopkins impression - Dr. Gideon was the place-holder name for Lector in one of the Silence Of The Lmabs scripts before they where sure they could get the rights). and call-forwards. It's just a stunningly crafted act of love. (Best Red Dragon fanfic ever!)
*Guess how long it took me to realize the plants in Hannibal's dining room shelves are herbs and that Bedelia has a similar arrangement in HER kitchen.
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 AM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
I got turned off when the book finally came out in 2001. I read it and I thought "wow, that's many hours of my life I'll never get back," and I threw the book in the bin. In the bin. Which I never do.
You have awakened in me a desperate desire to watch this series. Now. This minute.
WAAAH IT'S NOT STREAMING ANYWHERE IN THE UK! WAAAH! WHO KNOWS WHERE I CAN SEE THIS?!???
can not wait for amazon prime
posted by tel3path at 9:25 AM on October 17, 2013
You have awakened in me a desperate desire to watch this series. Now. This minute.
WAAAH IT'S NOT STREAMING ANYWHERE IN THE UK! WAAAH! WHO KNOWS WHERE I CAN SEE THIS?!???
can not wait for amazon prime
posted by tel3path at 9:25 AM on October 17, 2013
Not allowed to stream this show via Amazon Prime in the UK.
posted by tel3path at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2013
posted by tel3path at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2013
Wait, no one told me Scott Thompson was on this show!!!
I usually have a hard time convincing MuddDude to watch these ultra-genre, ultra-fannish shows, but if I tell him Thompson is in it, this should be a breeze.
posted by muddgirl at 9:47 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I usually have a hard time convincing MuddDude to watch these ultra-genre, ultra-fannish shows, but if I tell him Thompson is in it, this should be a breeze.
posted by muddgirl at 9:47 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I usually get people with "Reoccurring guest star, Gillian Anderson."
posted by The Whelk at 9:50 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 9:50 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
There's also an Executive Serial Killer.
posted by Artw at 9:54 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:54 AM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
NBC's Hannibal, featuring One Eye, Morpheus, Dana Scully, Buddy Cole, the Executive Transvestite, the little girl from My Girl and (if Bryan Fuller gets his wish) eventually the entire cast of Pushing Daisies.
posted by griphus at 10:02 AM on October 17, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by griphus at 10:02 AM on October 17, 2013 [11 favorites]
You forgot Audrey 1.
posted by The Whelk at 10:03 AM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 10:03 AM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
My favorite in-joke was having Ellen Muth play someone named Georgia with a disorder that made her think she was dead.
posted by lovecrafty at 12:48 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by lovecrafty at 12:48 PM on October 17, 2013
OH I FOUND IT ON VIRGIN MEDIA ON DEMAND
it's gonna be a long night
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
it's gonna be a long night
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
WELLCOME TO OUR RITUALISTIC SERIAL KILLER DINNER PARTY.
posted by The Whelk at 1:11 PM on October 17, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:11 PM on October 17, 2013 [6 favorites]
WELLCOME TO OUR RITUALISTIC SERIAL KILLER DINNER PARTY.
Nothing here is vegetarian.
posted by Artw at 1:24 PM on October 17, 2013
Nothing here is vegetarian.
posted by Artw at 1:24 PM on October 17, 2013
My current favorite wacky Hannibal fandom tumblr thing: What if Hannibal told lame jokes instead of sinisterly implying cannibalism?
posted by lovecrafty at 1:31 PM on October 17, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by lovecrafty at 1:31 PM on October 17, 2013 [8 favorites]
I was very pleased that Hannibal serves dinner parties service à la française (small dishes all served buffet style) as opposed to the more common ala Russe (distinct courses brought out at timed intervals) method because it simulated service at an aristocratic home as opposed to eating in a restaurant.
I'm not the only one who saw the Dracula/Lucy Hannibal/Abigail parallel there? Right? She literally has to hide a neck wound.
posted by The Whelk at 1:32 PM on October 17, 2013 [7 favorites]
I'm not the only one who saw the Dracula/Lucy Hannibal/Abigail parallel there? Right? She literally has to hide a neck wound.
posted by The Whelk at 1:32 PM on October 17, 2013 [7 favorites]
Speaking of which that new Dracula show starring King Bowie VIII better be good.
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2013
I think the tumbkr joke that finally converted me was BEHOLD MY STOLEN DOG PALACE
posted by The Whelk at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2013
Nothing here is vegetarian.
But it is very humanitarian.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
But it is very humanitarian.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not the only one who saw the Dracula/Lucy Hannibal/Abigail parallel there? Right? She literally has to hide a neck wound.
Hannibal basically drops "by the way, I'm evil" in to every conversation and it is never noticed - clearly he is a Dracula ans has some form of supernatural hold on people.
Small 's', don't get excited.
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hannibal basically drops "by the way, I'm evil" in to every conversation and it is never noticed - clearly he is a Dracula ans has some form of supernatural hold on people.
Small 's', don't get excited.
posted by Artw at 1:52 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Team Free Will Graham.
( I like how every adaptation of Lecter confidently leaves out the maroon eyes and six fingered hand. Cause you know otherwise he's so normal and relatable)
posted by The Whelk at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2013
( I like how every adaptation of Lecter confidently leaves out the maroon eyes and six fingered hand. Cause you know otherwise he's so normal and relatable)
posted by The Whelk at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2013
Another good tumblr, mostly about meta theories and analysis
posted by The Whelk at 1:59 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:59 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh, and Will's illness is most certainly taken from this book: Brain On Fire, it was the broken clock test that finally got her medical, rather than psychological treatment.
posted by The Whelk at 2:04 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:04 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Said book also introduces the theory that this incredibly rare disorder might explain accounts of demonic processions in the past ...and the creators and actor keep saying Hannibal is a Luciferian character ...soooo.
posted by The Whelk at 2:09 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 2:09 PM on October 17, 2013
Oh, and Will's illness is most certainly taken from this book: Brain On Fire, it was the broken clock test that finally got her medical, rather than psychological treatment.
It seems, from reading the summary of that book, that she wound up not remembering anything she'd done while she was ill. Odds that Will winds up not remembering, say, his conversation with Hannibal in the last episode?
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2013
It seems, from reading the summary of that book, that she wound up not remembering anything she'd done while she was ill. Odds that Will winds up not remembering, say, his conversation with Hannibal in the last episode?
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2013
I hope so. I want to see more of the type of scenes that would not happen if he Remembers Everything.
posted by griphus at 2:19 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 2:19 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Eventually, someone is going to realize how shaky the against against Will is.
And that person will be made into tacos.
posted by The Whelk at 2:26 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
And that person will be made into tacos.
posted by The Whelk at 2:26 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Beautiful, delicious looking tacos.
posted by Justinian at 2:56 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 2:56 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
With HEAVILY IMPLIED CANNIBALISM
posted by The Whelk at 2:59 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 2:59 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
**vague spoilers for 30-year-old novels**
If they follow the seven season plan, then Hannibal will have to be caught (and tried? I can't remember if the books mention a trial...) and imprisoned sometime soon. 3rd season maybe. Possibly 4th, if they stretch out Will's recuperation and case-clearing. That leaves 3-4 seasons for Red Dragon, Silence, and (ugh) Hannibal. They'll have to do it soon anyway, otherwise Will ends up looking really really REALLY clueless.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:01 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
If they follow the seven season plan, then Hannibal will have to be caught (and tried? I can't remember if the books mention a trial...) and imprisoned sometime soon. 3rd season maybe. Possibly 4th, if they stretch out Will's recuperation and case-clearing. That leaves 3-4 seasons for Red Dragon, Silence, and (ugh) Hannibal. They'll have to do it soon anyway, otherwise Will ends up looking really really REALLY clueless.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:01 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Whelk- I'm actually curious about the real-world legality of what would happen if you got a crazy-making brain inflammation, killed someone without knowing it, and were then cured. Would you be released?
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:01 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by showbiz_liz at 3:01 PM on October 17, 2013
*holds needlepoint pillow with the words WE'VE ALLREADY DIVERTED FROM CANON on one side and WE NEVER SAW ABLIGAL'S BODY on the other.*
posted by The Whelk at 3:02 PM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:02 PM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
I uh... thought it was fairly clear that Hannibal um... brought ahhhh... Abigail over to Dr. Du Maurier for uh... a light supper. DOES BEDELIA KNOW?
posted by lovecrafty at 3:06 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by lovecrafty at 3:06 PM on October 17, 2013
Would you be released?
I hold J.D.s in both Law and Order and I think it would be grounds for at least a diminished capacity plea.
posted by griphus at 3:09 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I hold J.D.s in both Law and Order and I think it would be grounds for at least a diminished capacity plea.
posted by griphus at 3:09 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
One of my favorite conceits of the show is that Fuller knows all us armchair detectives are yelling WHERE'S THE BODY at the screen and he's like how about this arm.
posted by griphus at 3:12 PM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by griphus at 3:12 PM on October 17, 2013 [5 favorites]
Word Of God says Bedelia doesn't know everything but I think she knows a lot more then she's letting on ( plus, she takes interest in Hanibal for the same reason Hannibal takes interest in Will, she wants to observe a curious specimen.)
Although the veal being Abigail fits in with my red= compromised morality/contamination. That is one bright red blouse she's wearing in a show that tends to avoid big splashes of bright color , even the blood is closer to black than red.
posted by The Whelk at 3:14 PM on October 17, 2013
Although the veal being Abigail fits in with my red= compromised morality/contamination. That is one bright red blouse she's wearing in a show that tends to avoid big splashes of bright color , even the blood is closer to black than red.
posted by The Whelk at 3:14 PM on October 17, 2013
( this is also why I think Freddie's distinctive red curls are important, she's starts out with no ethics or morality but is one of only two people to avoid accidental cannibalism while over at Lecter's Little Dining Room Of Horrors.)
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on October 17, 2013
Oh Bedelia has something weird going on. She has to.
Fun fact: Gillian Anderson had been up for the part of Clarice Starling in the Hannibal movie, after Jodie Foster declined to reprise it. Anderson had to drop out because her X-Files contract specified she couldn't play another FBI agent.
She dodged a bullet there, imo.
I'm actually very excited to see where Fuller will diverge from the Hannibal novel.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2013
Fun fact: Gillian Anderson had been up for the part of Clarice Starling in the Hannibal movie, after Jodie Foster declined to reprise it. Anderson had to drop out because her X-Files contract specified she couldn't play another FBI agent.
She dodged a bullet there, imo.
I'm actually very excited to see where Fuller will diverge from the Hannibal novel.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2013
Heh. The X Files itself is such a Silence of the Lambs rip...
posted by Artw at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by Artw at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2013
he's like how about this arm.
Man don't think about the logistics of Miram Lass too much or you start to wonder where he keeps his man-sized beer brewing tanks and used body part storage.
posted by The Whelk at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2013
Man don't think about the logistics of Miram Lass too much or you start to wonder where he keeps his man-sized beer brewing tanks and used body part storage.
posted by The Whelk at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2013
***SPOILERS***
I think they already diverged from any post-Red Dragon stuff by killing the Clarice stand-in in the same manner that Hannibal almost killed Will in the first novel.
***SPOILERS***
posted by griphus at 3:34 PM on October 17, 2013
I think they already diverged from any post-Red Dragon stuff by killing the Clarice stand-in in the same manner that Hannibal almost killed Will in the first novel.
***SPOILERS***
posted by griphus at 3:34 PM on October 17, 2013
Yeah, Fuller has said they did that so they'd have to come up with something new for Will to do.
posted by The Whelk at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2013
Fuller has said he's still hopeful they can negotiate for the rights to Clarice and Jame Gumb.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:37 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by lovecrafty at 3:37 PM on October 17, 2013
( I propose Will try the novel strategy of figuring out the creepy meancing guy who is always somehow in the center of horribly violent things is somehow involved with them.)
posted by The Whelk at 3:38 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 3:38 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have to say I'm sort of gleefully awaiting the moment when it is all revealed and we see everyone who ever had a meal at Hannibal's realize THAT WASN'T PORK.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:44 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by lovecrafty at 3:44 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Let's be fair, you'd want to be invited to the mysterious, refined inner sactum and gush over obscure old world recipes and vintage ties and artful, forward thinking interior decor.
posted by The Whelk at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have to say I'm sort of gleefully awaiting the moment when it is all revealed and we see everyone who ever had a meal at Hannibal's realize THAT WASN'T PORK.
There was that great silent version of this with Abigail chewing and slowly...slowly realizing she's tasted this dish before.
Apparently in one of the books there is a one sentence reference to Baltimore high society being suddently plagued with alcoholism, institutionalization, and crippling anorexia.
posted by The Whelk at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
There was that great silent version of this with Abigail chewing and slowly...slowly realizing she's tasted this dish before.
Apparently in one of the books there is a one sentence reference to Baltimore high society being suddently plagued with alcoholism, institutionalization, and crippling anorexia.
posted by The Whelk at 3:48 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
I do like how, because of the way the show is structured, we meet lots of copies of Hannibal and how they come up lacking, Tobias is sloppy and obvious, franklyn lacks any sense of boundaries, the psych doctor is over familiar and crass, etc. the only way he gets away with this is a specific set of qualities that conspire to make him seem so strange and obvious that nobody suspects him.
Which is why Bedelia has to have something weird going on, she's the only one he treats as an equal ( Will is essentially a science experiment.) and yea, I think he turned that patient on her so he could have her all to himself. The tongue thing was a big SoTL call forward.
posted by The Whelk at 3:58 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Which is why Bedelia has to have something weird going on, she's the only one he treats as an equal ( Will is essentially a science experiment.) and yea, I think he turned that patient on her so he could have her all to himself. The tongue thing was a big SoTL call forward.
posted by The Whelk at 3:58 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
There was that great silent version of this with Abigail chewing and slowly...slowly realizing she's tasted this dish before.
Was that in the episode they didn't air on the network? Man, I gotta go get the DVDs.
posted by lovecrafty at 4:02 PM on October 17, 2013
Was that in the episode they didn't air on the network? Man, I gotta go get the DVDs.
posted by lovecrafty at 4:02 PM on October 17, 2013
Dracula would be less suspect than Hannibal.
Okay so the PERFECT HANNIBAL SCENE
It takes place in a How We All Met episode, and they did everyone else's and now it's Hannibal's turn.
And the scene is in his lounge or bedroom. We see Hannibal from behind, centered in the frame -- like one of those one-point perspective Kubrick shots -- in a fancy architecture lounge chair, and next to him is a fancy little nightstand with a perfectly-filled glass of red wine perfectly centered on it. Also he has Different Hair because if someone has Different Hair and it's not a season premiere you know it's a Back In Time episode.
And the room is only illuminated by his giant television (you'd think he's the Is This Something I Need A Television To Understand? type but NO he's a connoisseur of film as much as anything else and has the best AV equipment money can buy) which is playing Dracula.
And you see the scene where Dracula is offered wine and Hannibal's hand methodically but casually reaches out for the glass of wine sitting on the little stand he has for exactly that purpose. And he slowly, so as not to disturb the wine, moves the glass toward himself.
"I don't dreenk..." His hand freezes still, directly between his form and the nightstand.
"...vine" He drops the glass, it breaks against the nightstand and spills wine everywhere but he stays totally still. And there's a scary whip-pan around to his face, fully illuminated by the television. And he's sitting here, paralyzed, and his expression is just
:D
posted by griphus at 4:19 PM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
Okay so the PERFECT HANNIBAL SCENE
It takes place in a How We All Met episode, and they did everyone else's and now it's Hannibal's turn.
And the scene is in his lounge or bedroom. We see Hannibal from behind, centered in the frame -- like one of those one-point perspective Kubrick shots -- in a fancy architecture lounge chair, and next to him is a fancy little nightstand with a perfectly-filled glass of red wine perfectly centered on it. Also he has Different Hair because if someone has Different Hair and it's not a season premiere you know it's a Back In Time episode.
And the room is only illuminated by his giant television (you'd think he's the Is This Something I Need A Television To Understand? type but NO he's a connoisseur of film as much as anything else and has the best AV equipment money can buy) which is playing Dracula.
And you see the scene where Dracula is offered wine and Hannibal's hand methodically but casually reaches out for the glass of wine sitting on the little stand he has for exactly that purpose. And he slowly, so as not to disturb the wine, moves the glass toward himself.
"I don't dreenk..." His hand freezes still, directly between his form and the nightstand.
"...vine" He drops the glass, it breaks against the nightstand and spills wine everywhere but he stays totally still. And there's a scary whip-pan around to his face, fully illuminated by the television. And he's sitting here, paralyzed, and his expression is just
:D
posted by griphus at 4:19 PM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
Griphus I think we need a podcast where we just come up with new Hannibal episodes.
posted by The Whelk at 4:22 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 4:22 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would be amenable to that.
posted by griphus at 4:23 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 4:23 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Welcome to our fictional Hannibal podcast, we're currently working on episode 4, "Doggie Bag" in which Will is forced to watch one of his dogs eat someone."
posted by The Whelk at 4:25 PM on October 17, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 4:25 PM on October 17, 2013
and yea, I think he turned that patient on her so he could have her all to himself.
I agree, and my personal fan theory is that he then killed the guy in front of her. This is kinda supported by her extreme caginess when answering the detective's question about how she died. Ostensibly he's killing a guy to save her life, but his motive was just so that the person who understands him the most would see him killing someone, thus bringing her closer to seeing the real him, but in a manufactured situation where it was "ok" for him to kill. (Then she lied about it of course, but I'm not sure why.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:28 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I agree, and my personal fan theory is that he then killed the guy in front of her. This is kinda supported by her extreme caginess when answering the detective's question about how she died. Ostensibly he's killing a guy to save her life, but his motive was just so that the person who understands him the most would see him killing someone, thus bringing her closer to seeing the real him, but in a manufactured situation where it was "ok" for him to kill. (Then she lied about it of course, but I'm not sure why.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:28 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think she's lying about cause she's scared, TBH. Imagine having that guy think you're fascinating and special.
Well actually no, we know what happens then, it's called the plot of the first season.
Oh and for the record, we're all aware where Abigail Hobbs gets her name from right?
posted by The Whelk at 4:32 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well actually no, we know what happens then, it's called the plot of the first season.
Oh and for the record, we're all aware where Abigail Hobbs gets her name from right?
posted by The Whelk at 4:32 PM on October 17, 2013 [2 favorites]
This seems like a good place to drop this: Will Graham Has a Nice Day. For example.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:55 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:55 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Will is never having a nice day ever again.
( there was some list on tumblr that cracked my sides open, like DOES WILL EVER CLOSE HIS EYES AND WISH EVERYONE AROUND HAS BECOME PUPPIES AND IS HE DISSAPOINTED WHEN THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN?)
posted by The Whelk at 5:01 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
( there was some list on tumblr that cracked my sides open, like DOES WILL EVER CLOSE HIS EYES AND WISH EVERYONE AROUND HAS BECOME PUPPIES AND IS HE DISSAPOINTED WHEN THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN?)
posted by The Whelk at 5:01 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
WHELK STOP STEALING MY TAGS
posted by elizardbits at 5:15 PM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 5:15 PM on October 17, 2013 [4 favorites]
STOP MAKING THEM COMPELLING AND WITTY
posted by The Whelk at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
je refuse
posted by elizardbits at 6:05 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits at 6:05 PM on October 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
#metafilter after dark
posted by zombieflanders at 4:12 AM on October 18, 2013
posted by zombieflanders at 4:12 AM on October 18, 2013
Why Do We Sexualize Chicken?
[Carol J.] Adams then argues that this is a way to distract us from the fact that we are eating the flesh of an animal that has been killed for us.posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:10 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am re-reading the Fuller interview in the last FPP and juuuust noticed this (which I somehow glossed over before)
AVC: This episode has Freddie Lounds in it quite a bit, and she’s one of the alterations you’ve made to the original stories. How did you approach altering characters and details from Thomas Harris’ work, even slightly?
BF: Well, with Freddie Lounds and the Starbucking of Freddie Lounds and Alana Bloom, it was really just a function of needing more female voices and perspectives and characters on the show, because it’s just a lot of men. It ran dangerously close to being a lot of white men, and we just didn’t want to be so narrow in our worldview, so when you saw these characters on the show, it didn’t feel like it was a very limited world. We wanted to see a wide variety of people presented—genders, ethnicities, and sexual orientations. Without making any kind of meal of those issues, just incorporating them into who the characters were and letting the actors fill out their characters.
Also I think this the only show where you can have the stage direction "WHIPS CREAM THREATENINGLY"
Also the original choice for Bedelia? Angela Lansbury.
Let that sink in a little bit.
posted by The Whelk at 8:41 PM on October 19, 2013
AVC: This episode has Freddie Lounds in it quite a bit, and she’s one of the alterations you’ve made to the original stories. How did you approach altering characters and details from Thomas Harris’ work, even slightly?
BF: Well, with Freddie Lounds and the Starbucking of Freddie Lounds and Alana Bloom, it was really just a function of needing more female voices and perspectives and characters on the show, because it’s just a lot of men. It ran dangerously close to being a lot of white men, and we just didn’t want to be so narrow in our worldview, so when you saw these characters on the show, it didn’t feel like it was a very limited world. We wanted to see a wide variety of people presented—genders, ethnicities, and sexual orientations. Without making any kind of meal of those issues, just incorporating them into who the characters were and letting the actors fill out their characters.
Also I think this the only show where you can have the stage direction "WHIPS CREAM THREATENINGLY"
Also the original choice for Bedelia? Angela Lansbury.
Let that sink in a little bit.
posted by The Whelk at 8:41 PM on October 19, 2013
Without making any kind of meal of those issues
*eyebrows rise*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:01 PM on October 19, 2013
*eyebrows rise*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:01 PM on October 19, 2013
I feel like an 80's Hannibal spread might look a little like this.
posted by Artw at 9:27 PM on October 19, 2013
posted by Artw at 9:27 PM on October 19, 2013
I just realized how much media I'm watching right now takes it's cues from 70s/80s VHS Horror staples. Fuller gushes love for all the Creepshow-esque horror stuff that informed Hannibal.
Petition for WE HAVE SUCH FILMS TO SHOW YOU to cover John Dies At The End, which has a legit Phantasm connection! (the exteriors used for the mall where the same mall the director saw Phantasm in.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:30 PM on October 19, 2013
Petition for WE HAVE SUCH FILMS TO SHOW YOU to cover John Dies At The End, which has a legit Phantasm connection! (the exteriors used for the mall where the same mall the director saw Phantasm in.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:30 PM on October 19, 2013
Welp, just finished the first season.
As a sitcom, it's much less heartless than Seinfeld.
posted by tel3path at 7:43 AM on October 21, 2013
As a sitcom, it's much less heartless than Seinfeld.
posted by tel3path at 7:43 AM on October 21, 2013
John Dies at the End is the next one up on the slate! The plan was to do Phantasm and then that one, but we interspersed it with the Prophecy sequels for a bit of variety. It won't be recorded until the 10th though.
posted by griphus at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Moar thoughts, as yet uninfluenced by fandom:
Usually, when someone like this Walks Among Us, they go unsuspected for a long time because you never thought a person *you know* could be so evil. HELLO, THEY HAVE SERIAL KILLERS FOR BREAKFAST DINNER AND TEA. THEY SHOULD HAVE SPOTTED IT AGES AGO.
And instead of collectively going "LIEK ZOMG!!! IT'S ALWAYS THE GUY YOU LEAST SUSPECTED!!!" they should have cast a sidelong glance at the guy who:
- superficially looks like a psychopath (cold, snotty, down-the-nose expression as default)
- talks like a psychopath (says whatever he needs to, expresses remorse only superficially - don't think this wouldn't be noticed over time; also, his only nonwork conversation topic is food and the satisfaction of bodily needs)
- acts like a psychopath (emotionless, also bodies just magically pile up and, generally, bad stuff somehow keeps happening while he's around)
Also, I guess New England is the equivalent of the hellmouth? If there are still 300 serial killers running loose in the United States, apparently they're all in New England and they're all bizarrely and elaborately intelligent and their tastes consistently run to the gothic? None of your bog standard, dumb, boring serial killers here. They're all *artists*. In an atmosphere like that, no wonder anybody could turn out to be a serial killer. The economy has clearly passed the Serial Killer Event Horizon and can now sustain nothing but serial killers, FBI agents, shrinks, and tabloid journalists.
Also insightful how Will self-identifies as ASD at the very beginning. Hyper-empathy and having no defence against others' thoughts is something that happens, but isn't widely acknowledged or known outside of the inner circle. Conversely, it's said that "the killer" who at times could be Hannibal (but I don't think actually is on those occasions) experiences tenderness/remorse/empathy in a manner inconsistent with psychopathy. It's kinda like Unbreakable with Hannibal being Will's opposite number.
Meanwhile, absolutely everyone on the team is systematically projecting instability onto the poor guy while doing everything in their power, at all times, to goad him into a blubbering mess. With friends like these, who even needs Hannibal? I hope Will posts here on the green soon so we can give him a good talking to about associating with toxic people and why he should go no contact.
posted by tel3path at 8:11 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Usually, when someone like this Walks Among Us, they go unsuspected for a long time because you never thought a person *you know* could be so evil. HELLO, THEY HAVE SERIAL KILLERS FOR BREAKFAST DINNER AND TEA. THEY SHOULD HAVE SPOTTED IT AGES AGO.
And instead of collectively going "LIEK ZOMG!!! IT'S ALWAYS THE GUY YOU LEAST SUSPECTED!!!" they should have cast a sidelong glance at the guy who:
- superficially looks like a psychopath (cold, snotty, down-the-nose expression as default)
- talks like a psychopath (says whatever he needs to, expresses remorse only superficially - don't think this wouldn't be noticed over time; also, his only nonwork conversation topic is food and the satisfaction of bodily needs)
- acts like a psychopath (emotionless, also bodies just magically pile up and, generally, bad stuff somehow keeps happening while he's around)
Also, I guess New England is the equivalent of the hellmouth? If there are still 300 serial killers running loose in the United States, apparently they're all in New England and they're all bizarrely and elaborately intelligent and their tastes consistently run to the gothic? None of your bog standard, dumb, boring serial killers here. They're all *artists*. In an atmosphere like that, no wonder anybody could turn out to be a serial killer. The economy has clearly passed the Serial Killer Event Horizon and can now sustain nothing but serial killers, FBI agents, shrinks, and tabloid journalists.
Also insightful how Will self-identifies as ASD at the very beginning. Hyper-empathy and having no defence against others' thoughts is something that happens, but isn't widely acknowledged or known outside of the inner circle. Conversely, it's said that "the killer" who at times could be Hannibal (but I don't think actually is on those occasions) experiences tenderness/remorse/empathy in a manner inconsistent with psychopathy. It's kinda like Unbreakable with Hannibal being Will's opposite number.
Meanwhile, absolutely everyone on the team is systematically projecting instability onto the poor guy while doing everything in their power, at all times, to goad him into a blubbering mess. With friends like these, who even needs Hannibal? I hope Will posts here on the green soon so we can give him a good talking to about associating with toxic people and why he should go no contact.
posted by tel3path at 8:11 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Keep in mind Hannibal also does things like rescue his psychiatrist from assault, burst into an ambulance to do Emergency Medicine, mind Will's beloved dogs, cook dinner for an orphaned girl, etc. So it's less that they haven't spotted it than the fact that they probably see him as a stand-up but really weird guy. Which is hilarious because all that altruism is as calculated as the murders he pulls off.
But then again it fucking rhymes.
posted by griphus at 8:19 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
But then again it fucking rhymes.
posted by griphus at 8:19 AM on October 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yeah, not only does it FUCKING RHYME (and nobody saw the big spray-painted CANNIBALS and thought to themselves, heeeeyy wait a minute?) but they ALSO know that psychopaths will tell you straight out that the best way to con people is to help them. It's not like they're unschooled in psychopaths' wily ways.
All I'm saying is, they should think to themselves "gee Hannibal is oddly emotionless, and a heck of a lot of people associated with him or geographically near him seem to end up gothically and spectacularly dead, and doesn't that name rhyme with something? Nah, that's just silly," at least once.
posted by tel3path at 8:25 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
All I'm saying is, they should think to themselves "gee Hannibal is oddly emotionless, and a heck of a lot of people associated with him or geographically near him seem to end up gothically and spectacularly dead, and doesn't that name rhyme with something? Nah, that's just silly," at least once.
posted by tel3path at 8:25 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Related: I've been watching Arrow and considering how conspicuously mysterious Oliver Queen is, I'm totally convinced one of the show's unspoken subtexts is that everyone knows full well that Queen is the Star City vigilante but they're all keeping up appearances because, hey, he's getting the job done.
Well, everyone except for the bad guys, because they have a lot of hanging-out to do in front of enormous skyscraper windows and penthouse rooftops.
posted by griphus at 8:29 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, everyone except for the bad guys, because they have a lot of hanging-out to do in front of enormous skyscraper windows and penthouse rooftops.
posted by griphus at 8:29 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Ah, yes, my psychiatrist, Hax Murderer. He has been helping me profile this ax murderer." via
posted by griphus at 8:31 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 8:31 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
One way in which it's plausible, though, is that he's a doctor. A psychiatrist. He's exactly who they'd go to to build a case that Hannibal's name is no coincidence.
That is how Shipman got away with it for so long, after all. His staff knew, but couldn't prove, that he was killing patients for a long time, and a major reason they couldn't prove it was because in many ways *there was no higher authority*.
Gotta say that Bloom and friends are oddly unsuspicious in comparison.
posted by tel3path at 8:38 AM on October 21, 2013
That is how Shipman got away with it for so long, after all. His staff knew, but couldn't prove, that he was killing patients for a long time, and a major reason they couldn't prove it was because in many ways *there was no higher authority*.
Gotta say that Bloom and friends are oddly unsuspicious in comparison.
posted by tel3path at 8:38 AM on October 21, 2013
The irony being that Hannibal has his shit generally together and has a life outside of his profession, has hobbies, friends, etc. whereas Will Graham, Alanna Bloom, Jack Crawford and many of the other Good Guys are all consumed by their work to the very clear detriment of their mental health and personal lives.
posted by griphus at 9:05 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 9:05 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Bloom's known Hannibal for years, no? Did her PHD under him? I assume her blinders stem from that - and lets not forget Hannibal is deliberately fucking with Jack to make him confused and frustrated
But then again it fucking rhymes.
" Will! It rhymes with ...kill!"
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 AM on October 21, 2013
But then again it fucking rhymes.
" Will! It rhymes with ...kill!"
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 AM on October 21, 2013
I like to think Price leaves work and talks to his bartender about how he's pretty sure this consulting pyscharatrist is a freaking serial killer cause he's so freaking creepy but they're not paying him enough to bother.
posted by The Whelk at 9:12 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:12 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
I thinks it's interesting the real life profiler Harris based Will Ghram on had an bout of encephalitis while working on a case and everyone first reaction was " oh crap we broke his brain." not " oh no he's sick."
Also the sheer amount of lines that come straight out of Red Dragon, whole scenes! Ver batim!
This show is like the best fanfic ever.
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also the sheer amount of lines that come straight out of Red Dragon, whole scenes! Ver batim!
This show is like the best fanfic ever.
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah I know! It's like every other line is straight from the book and every other character is recycled from a different character. And yet, I don't hate it. I LOVE IT
posted by tel3path at 9:21 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tel3path at 9:21 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's incredibly respectful! Which I was not expecting!
I think in the commentary they said "If you pitched this show was "I want to show Hannibal Lector crying to his psychologist" I think you would've gotten laughed out of the room."
posted by The Whelk at 9:25 AM on October 21, 2013
I think in the commentary they said "If you pitched this show was "I want to show Hannibal Lector crying to his psychologist" I think you would've gotten laughed out of the room."
posted by The Whelk at 9:25 AM on October 21, 2013
(and apparently Mads Mikkelsen can cry on command and this was very noted on set.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:28 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 9:28 AM on October 21, 2013
(also, wow people took pay cuts and called in a lot of favors to get the show made)
posted by The Whelk at 9:29 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 9:29 AM on October 21, 2013
(and apparently Mads Mikkelsen can cry on command and this was very noted on set.)
A derangement of the tear ducts.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
A derangement of the tear ducts.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
He saved up all the crying he couldn't do on the set of Valhalla Rising.
posted by griphus at 9:35 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by griphus at 9:35 AM on October 21, 2013
(the director of the pilot and finale said the characteristic look for the show was "negative fill" and now I can't not see it in every single frame gaaaah
Also the blood filling heads in the opening are Jack, Will, and Hannibal, respectfully.
Also, sad to say the commentary really implies Will remembers the conversation he had in the Hobbs house (oh man apparently this show was almost entirely re-written like halfway through production so it would be less procedurall-y so as a result you have this weird echo of a procedural crime show hanging around) but he's not 100% sure of his sanity.
I should like, do a podcast or something cause apparently I can't stop talking about this.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 AM on October 21, 2013
Also the blood filling heads in the opening are Jack, Will, and Hannibal, respectfully.
Also, sad to say the commentary really implies Will remembers the conversation he had in the Hobbs house (oh man apparently this show was almost entirely re-written like halfway through production so it would be less procedurall-y so as a result you have this weird echo of a procedural crime show hanging around) but he's not 100% sure of his sanity.
I should like, do a podcast or something cause apparently I can't stop talking about this.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 AM on October 21, 2013
Oh and by the way, despite absolutely everyone's insistence that he is a meebling helpless basket-case of a victim with no personal agency, HIS NAME IS WILL
as in "good will" and "free will" (associations come easily)
All his actions indicate that he is very tough. Look what he's capable of when the chips are down, and indeed before then.
Makes you wonder why everyone else is so invested in convincing him he's weak, doesn't it? As in "if you weren't a neurotic you would be something much worse" eh?
DTMFsA, Will, if you're reading this. No contact with toxic people!
posted by tel3path at 10:05 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
as in "good will" and "free will" (associations come easily)
All his actions indicate that he is very tough. Look what he's capable of when the chips are down, and indeed before then.
Makes you wonder why everyone else is so invested in convincing him he's weak, doesn't it? As in "if you weren't a neurotic you would be something much worse" eh?
DTMFsA, Will, if you're reading this. No contact with toxic people!
posted by tel3path at 10:05 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Maybe this way you won't end up an alcoholic on a boat!
posted by The Whelk at 10:08 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 10:08 AM on October 21, 2013
I thought it was implied that everyone treats Will as they do because they know if he Goes Off, he'll be an completely unstoppable serial killer. So less that they think he's helpless, and more that they're handling him with kid gloves.
posted by griphus at 10:16 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by griphus at 10:16 AM on October 21, 2013
It wasn't Implied such as Explicitly Stated Six Times Per Minute, as that's clearly what everyone thinks. It just seems to me that they're obviously wrong and are projecting all kinds of dysfunction onto him. It's like he's the scapegoat for everyone else's personality deficiencies.
posted by tel3path at 10:18 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tel3path at 10:18 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Poor Will Graham is the dog everyone blames their farts on.
posted by griphus at 10:21 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by griphus at 10:21 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
We have to write a happy ending for him after all this. He can't just end up looking like a Picasso painting somewhere in the Florida Keys. We have to foil Hannibal's plot to ruin his pretty face so nobody else will want him, guys.
posted by tel3path at 10:23 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by tel3path at 10:23 AM on October 21, 2013
No what happens is that it was all a big misunderstanding and forgive and forget and bygones are bygones and Will and Hannibal stay in town but quit their jobs to start a dog rescue and they're best friends forever and also Will moves in.
This is my design.
posted by griphus at 10:29 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is my design.
posted by griphus at 10:29 AM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
*Will spots dark stain on his best carpet*
*bright golden pendulum swings*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:33 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
*bright golden pendulum swings*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:33 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
An offer has been made for Bowie to appear on season two of Hannibal, showrunner Bryan Fuller tells E! News exclusively. "We have reached out to David Bowie to see if he’s interested and available," Fuller reveals. “We would love for him to play Hannibal’s uncle, who is a character from the literature and in the books." Fuller explains “we don’t have an answer yet," but is hopeful Bowie can join the NBC series, which resumes production in August in Toronto.
The Season two guest star list is already getting insane.
posted by The Whelk at 10:56 AM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Alana has come the closest to seeing the entire picture and I can't decide if I am excited for her to be the one who says OH MY GOD WAIT, or if I'm anticpatorialy grumpy at the potential for people to not take her seriously because she is a lady doctor who once had ~*feelings for Will.
posted by elizardbits at 11:18 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 11:18 AM on October 21, 2013
Question: Have they found roughly three million dog hairs and pet dander at the crime scenes cause I imagine Will just carries his own allergen cloud?
posted by The Whelk at 11:20 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 11:20 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Good point. I can't imagine fastidious Hannibal rolling in dog hair beforehand. That expensive '70s checked suit.
posted by tel3path at 11:21 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by tel3path at 11:21 AM on October 21, 2013
Oh hey, guess who didn't recognize Jayne from Wonderfalls as Alana Bloom? This guy.
posted by The Whelk at 11:24 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 11:24 AM on October 21, 2013
I suspect Will Graham is a walking crime scene contaminant.
Like, the cops and then Crawford show up and there's a murder where it's one of those living canvas tableaux, except everyone is dead and the "painting" is completely-accurate rendition of Guernica.
Jack's crime scene people do their thing and then they send in Will Graham. When he's done, it is no longer a crime scene but a collection of objects Will Graham has rubbed himself on and rolled in like a dog after a shower.
posted by griphus at 11:28 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Like, the cops and then Crawford show up and there's a murder where it's one of those living canvas tableaux, except everyone is dead and the "painting" is completely-accurate rendition of Guernica.
Jack's crime scene people do their thing and then they send in Will Graham. When he's done, it is no longer a crime scene but a collection of objects Will Graham has rubbed himself on and rolled in like a dog after a shower.
posted by griphus at 11:28 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
And he still ends up completely caked in blood.
He would walk to get the mail and end up caked in blood.
posted by The Whelk at 11:34 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
He would walk to get the mail and end up caked in blood.
posted by The Whelk at 11:34 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
An entertaining podcast discussion of the series.
"I was so upset when he used who rather than whom in a sentence."
"His grammar is bad so he fits in."
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I was so upset when he used who rather than whom in a sentence."
"His grammar is bad so he fits in."
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I see we have made some converts. Welcome to our dinner party, gentlemen. Won't you have some hors d'oeuvres? They're quite delicious.
posted by Justinian at 11:38 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by Justinian at 11:38 AM on October 21, 2013
"I like how we're all fine with all the murders and killers but it's Franklyn that creeped us all out."
"That sad strange little man."
posted by The Whelk at 11:39 AM on October 21, 2013
"That sad strange little man."
posted by The Whelk at 11:39 AM on October 21, 2013
I feel sorry for people unfamiliar with Dead Like Me since the episodes with Georgia Madchen would be so much less awesome.
posted by Justinian at 11:42 AM on October 21, 2013
posted by Justinian at 11:42 AM on October 21, 2013
"Your honor - Georgia Madchen was killed by a comb. Do I look like a man who owns a comb?"
posted by The Whelk at 11:46 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 11:46 AM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
GUYS GUYS THE OPERA HANNIBAL ATTENDS IS A CHARITY EVENT TO END WORLD HUNGER.
posted by The Whelk at 12:45 PM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 12:45 PM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
The intended speaker has missed her flight. The event's organizer knows Hannibal to speak well on short notice, so he invites him to give a short talk about the charity's efforts. Hannibal begins with a favorite bit of his on "A Modest Proposal."
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:01 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:01 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Good morning, today I will be speaking about the ritual use of autophagia in religious ceremony. I am Hannibal Lecter and this is my Cannibal Lecture."
posted by The Whelk at 1:10 PM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:10 PM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
How is Hannibal so trim and fit? As far as I can tell, he eats meat at virtually every meal. Surely this is inconsistent with all known dietary guidelines.
posted by tel3path at 1:12 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by tel3path at 1:12 PM on October 21, 2013
He's no-carbing it.
posted by The Whelk at 1:13 PM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 1:13 PM on October 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's all about quality over quantity.
Plus active lifestyle.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on October 21, 2013
Plus active lifestyle.
posted by Artw at 1:21 PM on October 21, 2013
I can't fit "stalking and killing people" into MyFitnessPale for the calories spent.
posted by The Whelk at 1:23 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 1:23 PM on October 21, 2013
Yeah, there's a definite dearth of large servings of simple carbs in the meals he prepares, which themselves are served in small-but-satisfying-looking portions.
posted by griphus at 1:24 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by griphus at 1:24 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Plus, you have to figure he exercises somehow or other.
*shot of Hannibal opening weightlifting manual to Sinister Deadlifts*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:27 PM on October 21, 2013
*shot of Hannibal opening weightlifting manual to Sinister Deadlifts*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:27 PM on October 21, 2013
He clearly has some amount of hand-to-hand combat ability. As a rich guy he would probably have a private coach for this but I can't help picturing him wearing some sort of goofy gi in a loud sweat-smelling martial arts gym...
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:37 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:37 PM on October 21, 2013
Guys guys guys guys I just noticed that when Freddie is at Hannibal's place for dinner and she reveals she's a vegetarian she's DRESSED IN GREEN with LEAF EARRINGS.
posted by The Whelk at 1:44 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 1:44 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I want to send a gift card to whoever in the costuming department does Freddie's outfits.
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on October 21, 2013
I like how she's always juuuust on the edge of dressing like a pretty princess. Thank god or sober tones and metallic accents.
(Alana's crazy retro wrap dresses and big loud patterns are paired with Hannibal's patterned suits, two therapists with busy, busy clothing)
posted by The Whelk at 1:49 PM on October 21, 2013
(Alana's crazy retro wrap dresses and big loud patterns are paired with Hannibal's patterned suits, two therapists with busy, busy clothing)
posted by The Whelk at 1:49 PM on October 21, 2013
Hannibal is always so non-plussed when someone manages to avoid eating his people food.
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:49 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Hannibal fans are the fanniest fans since alt.tv.x-files. SCULLLLLLLLY.
posted by Justinian at 2:27 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by Justinian at 2:27 PM on October 21, 2013
If the show gets threatened with cancellation again I'm worried what fans will start sending to the network en mass.
posted by The Whelk at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:35 PM on October 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
I was shocked (in a good way) when Hannibal was renewed. Its ratings are awful. Because people would rather watch the latest iteration of NCSILANY or whatever.
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on October 21, 2013
Fake NCIS Episodes, or some variation cleverer than that, would make a good Twitter account.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:05 PM on October 21, 2013
Fake NCIS episodes just end up being NCIS episodes.
posted by The Whelk at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 3:06 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's Agents of SHIELD, isn't it?
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on October 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Reading all the fan material, I have actually LOLed many times today. I very rarely do that. I think this new fandom is gonna be the wind beneath my wings.
I wonder if the existence of the fandom influences the content of the show and to any extent frees it up to be so DARKLY RELENTLESSLY DARK AND GOTHIC AND DARK with none of that "light and shade" nonsense. The show is all relentless all the time, and it can afford to be because the fandom is all cracktastic all the time.
posted by tel3path at 5:26 PM on October 21, 2013
I wonder if the existence of the fandom influences the content of the show and to any extent frees it up to be so DARKLY RELENTLESSLY DARK AND GOTHIC AND DARK with none of that "light and shade" nonsense. The show is all relentless all the time, and it can afford to be because the fandom is all cracktastic all the time.
posted by tel3path at 5:26 PM on October 21, 2013
Isn't at least partway funded by Amazon? Or they have some kind of exclusive on streaming or something?
posted by Artw at 5:30 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by Artw at 5:30 PM on October 21, 2013
Hannibal proves the law of inverse fandom mood, the darker the show, the goofier the fandom and vice versa.
Seriously the show's fandom is so delightful
posted by The Whelk at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2013
Seriously the show's fandom is so delightful
posted by The Whelk at 5:58 PM on October 21, 2013
THe podcast linked above sugests the crazy, goofy fandom might be an immune defense against any kind of Mis-aimed fandom-y/Hannibal idolizing. It feels more like a perfect example of camp sensibility to me, making fun out of something presented as Serious and Important.
posted by The Whelk at 7:28 PM on October 21, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 7:28 PM on October 21, 2013
Okay, hmmm. A number of people have directed the words "personality disorder" towards Graham, but the only one who did so explicitly is Chilton, who is evil.
I just read that interview above, and Bryan Fuller says or implies that Graham has "personality disorders". Really? Well, he says that the hyper-empathy can be seen in "personality disorders" or in disorders of "mirror neurons" - a buzzphrase that, as above, strongly suggests ASD, which is not a personality disorder. So which is it? Because so far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that he meets the criteria for any personality disorders. The only one that I can see is identity disturbance and an unclear sense of self, but that alone won't get you a PD diagnosis will it? Certainly Lecter plays on that, because he wants to make Graham more like himself so they can find true love and skippy-hop through cornfields together in slow motion.
And I can see Graham becoming susceptible to that, but for reasons that have nothing to do with Graham having personality disorders. For one thing, psychopaths and narcissists (like Lecter) disguise their own identity to draw you in, and they invariably screw with your sense of self until you look "like fucking Picasso drew [you]". Furthermore, abusers are really great at convincing you that whatever they did, you are guilty of - Abigail is a glass-case example who surely wasn't put there by accident. (Also google "revictimization", if you had one cannibal dad who coerces you into becoming an accessory to his crimes, you are at elevated risk of attracting another cannibal dad, who also coerces you into becoming an accessory to further crimes, I've lost count of the number of plaintive questions we've had about that one on the green.)
So we have... one criterion for Borderline? He's not impulsive, he doesn't have mood swings - he's always glum. Avoidant? I don't think so, considering he invites Alana over for teh smoochiez and she is the one who turns him down. "Sorry, I've always wanted to shag you but I think you're too unstable" - wow, ultimate supremo humiliation with an extra-thick frustration crust. I know that I am not unstable, but anyone who said that to me would suddenly be right. He takes that soul-crushing rejection with exemplary grace and humility, and as fucking usual gets no credit for it!
I sometimes get defensive on behalf of my favorite characters, but so far I am not seeing anything that suggests that Graham has a lot of personality dysfunction that wouldn't be cured by his being more choosy about the company he keeps. Granted, his job is too stressful for his temperament and puts his mental health at risk, but he chooses to exercise his talents in order to protect the vulnerable. That's sacrificial giving, which might be a questionable choice but it's not a psychiatric symptom that I know of. Mind you, IANAD.
Tell you what, though - this was one case of UST I didn't think was contrived. I did believe that Alana turned him down because she thought he was unstable. I get that she really believes he's unstable. What I don't get is any reason to think this isn't yet another character projecting their own psychological stresses onto Graham. I'm not saying he won't turn out to have personality disorders as future series unfold, but so far, there's no validation that he actually has anything such. Any qualified person care to weigh in?
posted by tel3path at 4:17 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just read that interview above, and Bryan Fuller says or implies that Graham has "personality disorders". Really? Well, he says that the hyper-empathy can be seen in "personality disorders" or in disorders of "mirror neurons" - a buzzphrase that, as above, strongly suggests ASD, which is not a personality disorder. So which is it? Because so far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that he meets the criteria for any personality disorders. The only one that I can see is identity disturbance and an unclear sense of self, but that alone won't get you a PD diagnosis will it? Certainly Lecter plays on that, because he wants to make Graham more like himself so they can find true love and skippy-hop through cornfields together in slow motion.
And I can see Graham becoming susceptible to that, but for reasons that have nothing to do with Graham having personality disorders. For one thing, psychopaths and narcissists (like Lecter) disguise their own identity to draw you in, and they invariably screw with your sense of self until you look "like fucking Picasso drew [you]". Furthermore, abusers are really great at convincing you that whatever they did, you are guilty of - Abigail is a glass-case example who surely wasn't put there by accident. (Also google "revictimization", if you had one cannibal dad who coerces you into becoming an accessory to his crimes, you are at elevated risk of attracting another cannibal dad, who also coerces you into becoming an accessory to further crimes, I've lost count of the number of plaintive questions we've had about that one on the green.)
So we have... one criterion for Borderline? He's not impulsive, he doesn't have mood swings - he's always glum. Avoidant? I don't think so, considering he invites Alana over for teh smoochiez and she is the one who turns him down. "Sorry, I've always wanted to shag you but I think you're too unstable" - wow, ultimate supremo humiliation with an extra-thick frustration crust. I know that I am not unstable, but anyone who said that to me would suddenly be right. He takes that soul-crushing rejection with exemplary grace and humility, and as fucking usual gets no credit for it!
I sometimes get defensive on behalf of my favorite characters, but so far I am not seeing anything that suggests that Graham has a lot of personality dysfunction that wouldn't be cured by his being more choosy about the company he keeps. Granted, his job is too stressful for his temperament and puts his mental health at risk, but he chooses to exercise his talents in order to protect the vulnerable. That's sacrificial giving, which might be a questionable choice but it's not a psychiatric symptom that I know of. Mind you, IANAD.
Tell you what, though - this was one case of UST I didn't think was contrived. I did believe that Alana turned him down because she thought he was unstable. I get that she really believes he's unstable. What I don't get is any reason to think this isn't yet another character projecting their own psychological stresses onto Graham. I'm not saying he won't turn out to have personality disorders as future series unfold, but so far, there's no validation that he actually has anything such. Any qualified person care to weigh in?
posted by tel3path at 4:17 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Hannibal keeps saying " disorder disorder disorder." No one even reasonably on Will's side ( Aside from Jack, at times, and Jack Is A Jerky controlling zjerkface.) uses those words to describe him. I think this is very deliberate as it is in Hannibal's interest for everyone to think "disorder" when they look at Will and oh my doesn't that clever, dedicated man have such wonderful ways with words.....
As for motive , Fuller is a little more sympathetic to him then I'd like, but zi kinda like the alien from the planet Europe aspect of Lector. I don't him to be understandable. It's funny, there was a little bit of Draco In Leather pants-He's just misunderstood going on at the start but as soon as he started gaslighting Will, boom, done, over, instantly. We love Scruffy Dad more than we love you Fancy Dad.
I mean, I hate pat origin stories ( NAZI CANNIBAL FEAST!) and I'd be happy going through life without any further knowledge in why Hannibal does things - but zi can live with him doing it because he's bored, and can. If he didn't start fucking around the cases, all his new FBI toys would go away and he'd be left with patients like Franklyn and oh god how dull.
As for Lana, I think this is important ...she doesn't date him not only because she thinks he's " unstable" but also because she wouldn't be able to not think about him as a research subject- she wants to keep her professional and personal boundaries tight, she doesn't gossip about Will with Hannibal even though he leaves the door open for it. personal and professional boundaries are a he theme on this show and Alana's refusal to get into a romantic relationship with someone she thought of as a possible research subject is a display of her ethics and integrity. She's the only one who gets to call Hannibal rude and live.
Hey I wonder who else is crossing professional and quasi romantic interest and breaking boundaries cause someone is really, really interesting? Like doing the exact opposite of what Alana is doing? I woooooonder.
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for motive , Fuller is a little more sympathetic to him then I'd like, but zi kinda like the alien from the planet Europe aspect of Lector. I don't him to be understandable. It's funny, there was a little bit of Draco In Leather pants-He's just misunderstood going on at the start but as soon as he started gaslighting Will, boom, done, over, instantly. We love Scruffy Dad more than we love you Fancy Dad.
I mean, I hate pat origin stories ( NAZI CANNIBAL FEAST!) and I'd be happy going through life without any further knowledge in why Hannibal does things - but zi can live with him doing it because he's bored, and can. If he didn't start fucking around the cases, all his new FBI toys would go away and he'd be left with patients like Franklyn and oh god how dull.
As for Lana, I think this is important ...she doesn't date him not only because she thinks he's " unstable" but also because she wouldn't be able to not think about him as a research subject- she wants to keep her professional and personal boundaries tight, she doesn't gossip about Will with Hannibal even though he leaves the door open for it. personal and professional boundaries are a he theme on this show and Alana's refusal to get into a romantic relationship with someone she thought of as a possible research subject is a display of her ethics and integrity. She's the only one who gets to call Hannibal rude and live.
Hey I wonder who else is crossing professional and quasi romantic interest and breaking boundaries cause someone is really, really interesting? Like doing the exact opposite of what Alana is doing? I woooooonder.
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
( Will's problems stem from having a super rare auto immune disorder and Dracula as a best friend.)
posted by The Whelk at 4:56 PM on October 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:56 PM on October 22, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yes! Because TV shows love to portray characters who are "unorthodox" or "mavericks" in that they continually bend the rules or stretch professional boundaries. Here is one show that makes clear, in highly exaggerated form, why that's a bad thing. Fuller explicitly says he wanted Alana to be a character who makes an adult decision and doesn't just drop her drawers because the guy is hot. That kind of characterization I can totally get behind.
Meanwhile, Lecter starts breaking professional guidelines from the get-go. Little thinks like "first do no harm" and all that sort of rot (also query "eating patients?"). Giving Abigail psilocybin when she is, as far as one can tell, still a minor? And then lying to a fellow professional about it? And taking on Will as a nonpatient because he wants to be BFFs and gossip about him?
The first step was when he visited Will and foisted breakfast on him. In all likelihood, the sausage was people, but even if it hadn't been, it's clear that this was the equivalent of getting him to eat pomegranate seeds in Hades. Then later on, he convinces Will to keep schtum about the extent of Abigail's guilt, on the excuse that the truth will harm her more. So apparently Will ends up doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, which is the only way Lecter can get Will to take the first step on the primrose path to corruption.
How long do you think it'll be before Lecter shags Alana to get to Will? Because if you ask me, it's inevitable.
Oh those wacky psychopaths and their crazy courtship styles! It's enough to get you to unplug OKCupid and retire to a secluded house with just a gaggle of pets for company. Oh, wait.
posted by tel3path at 4:59 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, Lecter starts breaking professional guidelines from the get-go. Little thinks like "first do no harm" and all that sort of rot (also query "eating patients?"). Giving Abigail psilocybin when she is, as far as one can tell, still a minor? And then lying to a fellow professional about it? And taking on Will as a nonpatient because he wants to be BFFs and gossip about him?
The first step was when he visited Will and foisted breakfast on him. In all likelihood, the sausage was people, but even if it hadn't been, it's clear that this was the equivalent of getting him to eat pomegranate seeds in Hades. Then later on, he convinces Will to keep schtum about the extent of Abigail's guilt, on the excuse that the truth will harm her more. So apparently Will ends up doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, which is the only way Lecter can get Will to take the first step on the primrose path to corruption.
How long do you think it'll be before Lecter shags Alana to get to Will? Because if you ask me, it's inevitable.
Oh those wacky psychopaths and their crazy courtship styles! It's enough to get you to unplug OKCupid and retire to a secluded house with just a gaggle of pets for company. Oh, wait.
posted by tel3path at 4:59 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
In the commentary track, the specifically refer to Hannibal entering Will's motel room " like a vampire who has to be invited in." contrast to Will, who just barges in all willy nilly all the time.
It would be so easy to just say " oh yes, here comes the great Dr. bloom" but we get evidence she's great! Everyone speaks highly of her! She's totally uncompromised ! She makes difficult decisions! Alana Bloom, Actual Adult.
Apparently the shouting scene in Jack's office in the last episode was supposed to be a lot more confrontational until Fishburn said " No, she's totally right, shes been right from the start, and I have to sit here and take this." how often does the level headed* character actually get vindication like that?
How long do you think it'll be before Lecter shags Alana to get to Will? Because if you ask me, it's inevitable.
WELCOME TO TERROR TOWN, POPULARATION: ME
*I enjoy the fanwank that Bedlia is the only character that knows she's on a show called Hannibal and is trying to out scary the lead as a self preservation tactic.
posted by The Whelk at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be so easy to just say " oh yes, here comes the great Dr. bloom" but we get evidence she's great! Everyone speaks highly of her! She's totally uncompromised ! She makes difficult decisions! Alana Bloom, Actual Adult.
Apparently the shouting scene in Jack's office in the last episode was supposed to be a lot more confrontational until Fishburn said " No, she's totally right, shes been right from the start, and I have to sit here and take this." how often does the level headed* character actually get vindication like that?
How long do you think it'll be before Lecter shags Alana to get to Will? Because if you ask me, it's inevitable.
WELCOME TO TERROR TOWN, POPULARATION: ME
*I enjoy the fanwank that Bedlia is the only character that knows she's on a show called Hannibal and is trying to out scary the lead as a self preservation tactic.
posted by The Whelk at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I also think Bedelia doesn't know. She might have a suspicion but be like "nah, there's no way this food is people! I've just been watching too much TV!" She is probably at the stage of pretty much thinking he's bad, but not that bad. Even though she knows, deep down, that he probably is that bad... but even then, she would probably not have suspected that he was that bad that bad.
People are saying there's "more going on" with Bedelia. But isn't it enough that she suffered an attack so bad it caused her to retire, and the one patient she still has is the one who rescued her from it? And the attack was so bad that she apparently accepts him killing a human being in front of her because it was better than whatever worse fate she would have been subjected to? And Lecter most likely set up the attack, and although Bedelia knows he was the catalyst for the attack she hasn't fully understood that it was a setup, an outright setup? With her mouth, she says not to look to her for friendship, but in the context of her life as a whole, she looks like someone clinging to her only friend. Not sure how much more needs to be going on than that. Also, she may be guilty of some wrongdoing connected to that incident, or think that she is.
Just because she's a shrink, doesn't mean she's immune to the tricks the human mind can play on her. Especially since her social and professional world now apparently consists of 1) her 2) Hannibal 3) some basil plants. She presents as being very, very cool, but you can't ever trust the accounts people give of themselves and so far, Bedelia seems to be a glass-case example of that.
posted by tel3path at 5:17 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
People are saying there's "more going on" with Bedelia. But isn't it enough that she suffered an attack so bad it caused her to retire, and the one patient she still has is the one who rescued her from it? And the attack was so bad that she apparently accepts him killing a human being in front of her because it was better than whatever worse fate she would have been subjected to? And Lecter most likely set up the attack, and although Bedelia knows he was the catalyst for the attack she hasn't fully understood that it was a setup, an outright setup? With her mouth, she says not to look to her for friendship, but in the context of her life as a whole, she looks like someone clinging to her only friend. Not sure how much more needs to be going on than that. Also, she may be guilty of some wrongdoing connected to that incident, or think that she is.
Just because she's a shrink, doesn't mean she's immune to the tricks the human mind can play on her. Especially since her social and professional world now apparently consists of 1) her 2) Hannibal 3) some basil plants. She presents as being very, very cool, but you can't ever trust the accounts people give of themselves and so far, Bedelia seems to be a glass-case example of that.
posted by tel3path at 5:17 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also I think the whole "Hanni Wants A Friend" motivation is quite plausible - after all, he *does* end up fixating on Graham like a potential lover scorned. It all fits.
I wish this were one of those sitcoms where the characters do learn something at the end of every episode. Specifically, I wish Hannibal would learn that he can't have his friends and eat them too. But I think that one's not going to sink in until Red Dragon at the earliest, and that is years away.
posted by tel3path at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2013
I wish this were one of those sitcoms where the characters do learn something at the end of every episode. Specifically, I wish Hannibal would learn that he can't have his friends and eat them too. But I think that one's not going to sink in until Red Dragon at the earliest, and that is years away.
posted by tel3path at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2013
That half truth line - and the final exchange at the dinner table, they all point to something well " a bit more." I think she's pulling up all her bluff because she's terrified of him but knows she's marginally safe so long as she remains useful to him. *
I mean, I just assume Bedlia watched Hannibal kill a man in front of her, in her office, possibly by convincing him to swallow his own tongue- which if you ask me is way scarier than beating the shit out of someone with your Direstag Collectable figurine cause people can't actually do that. Does she know about the peopple eating? Maybe. She does know he has a history of manipulating dangerous, " unstable" people into doing things for him, she even warns him that it's starting to become obvious. She's a little protective, a little friendly, and a lot of stone cold ice. We don't know if she's terrified, encouraging, or completely oblivious.
* We are, for the moment, ignoring the possibility that Beldia was an early attempt to do a Will, take someone with all the right instincts to be juuuuust liiiiikkkke meeeee ( you vampire) and push them toward it and maybe it backfired.
posted by The Whelk at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I mean, I just assume Bedlia watched Hannibal kill a man in front of her, in her office, possibly by convincing him to swallow his own tongue- which if you ask me is way scarier than beating the shit out of someone with your Direstag Collectable figurine cause people can't actually do that. Does she know about the peopple eating? Maybe. She does know he has a history of manipulating dangerous, " unstable" people into doing things for him, she even warns him that it's starting to become obvious. She's a little protective, a little friendly, and a lot of stone cold ice. We don't know if she's terrified, encouraging, or completely oblivious.
* We are, for the moment, ignoring the possibility that Beldia was an early attempt to do a Will, take someone with all the right instincts to be juuuuust liiiiikkkke meeeee ( you vampire) and push them toward it and maybe it backfired.
posted by The Whelk at 5:26 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
I wish this were one of those sitcoms where the characters do learn something at the end of every episode.
Cue 80s title montage, Will and Hannibal on a tandem bike! Hannibal helping Abigail chop human fingers off by taking out a comically large knife! Bedelia falling asleep in therapy! Winston running around the yard with a human leg! Everyone gathered around a large dinner set up, Hannibal removes the silver top on the trey and it's Jack's head stuffed with apples, " Oh you!" looks are exchanged!
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Cue 80s title montage, Will and Hannibal on a tandem bike! Hannibal helping Abigail chop human fingers off by taking out a comically large knife! Bedelia falling asleep in therapy! Winston running around the yard with a human leg! Everyone gathered around a large dinner set up, Hannibal removes the silver top on the trey and it's Jack's head stuffed with apples, " Oh you!" looks are exchanged!
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 PM on October 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also aha i actually said at dinner tonight "cold foie gras and warm figs? Fascinating " and i got such A Look from the SO.
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 PM on October 22, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 10:09 PM on October 22, 2013
AND ANOTHER THING
I like that you're not supposed to love Hannibal on this show. He is clearly the bad guy.
And, he doesn't so far appear to have near-supernatural powers. He has great talent and dexterity, but we see no evidence of his doing anything a very talented human can't do. He is not, on current evidence, the Satanist Master of the Universe that the first two books imply he is and the third book more or less explicitly say he is.
I mean, I think running a psychiatry practice, cooking daily gourmet meals out of meat that you carefully hand-source yourself, and wearing three-piece suits, not to mention causing the disappearance of dozens of people on a daily basis without ever being expected of anything except by other serial killers, is quite a lot for even a very talented person to accomplish. If he has a supernatural power, so far it's time management.
posted by tel3path at 2:55 PM on October 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
I like that you're not supposed to love Hannibal on this show. He is clearly the bad guy.
And, he doesn't so far appear to have near-supernatural powers. He has great talent and dexterity, but we see no evidence of his doing anything a very talented human can't do. He is not, on current evidence, the Satanist Master of the Universe that the first two books imply he is and the third book more or less explicitly say he is.
I mean, I think running a psychiatry practice, cooking daily gourmet meals out of meat that you carefully hand-source yourself, and wearing three-piece suits, not to mention causing the disappearance of dozens of people on a daily basis without ever being expected of anything except by other serial killers, is quite a lot for even a very talented person to accomplish. If he has a supernatural power, so far it's time management.
posted by tel3path at 2:55 PM on October 23, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well, we all make time for the things we love.
Also, guys, the title of the first episode of season two has been announced! They're apparently keeping the culinary courses motif, but this time with traditional Japaanese terms.
Say doesn't Hannibal have a Japanese relative according to canon?
( if I had my way , we'd do Italian courses next, then move on to Opera terms. Also, no Florence references yet? I wonder, as the people in the podcast do, if they're going to swap Paris for Florence as Hannibal's feverish dream city ...if only cause it'll be easier to get French sounding extras in Canada than Italian sounding ones.....)
posted by The Whelk at 4:19 PM on October 23, 2013
Also, guys, the title of the first episode of season two has been announced! They're apparently keeping the culinary courses motif, but this time with traditional Japaanese terms.
Say doesn't Hannibal have a Japanese relative according to canon?
( if I had my way , we'd do Italian courses next, then move on to Opera terms. Also, no Florence references yet? I wonder, as the people in the podcast do, if they're going to swap Paris for Florence as Hannibal's feverish dream city ...if only cause it'll be easier to get French sounding extras in Canada than Italian sounding ones.....)
posted by The Whelk at 4:19 PM on October 23, 2013
Every good Batman story follows The Batman Rule, that he doesn't do really do anything that's utterly beyond the capacity of a human being, just very unlikely that all these abilities would be in one person.
Leaving aside the usual TV drama thing where people can apparently teleport and transportation never costs time or money. ( Abigal got to his place from the Hospital...on foot? ...and some of the driving distances are .....they do know that Minnesota is nowhere near Baltimore right? Like why couldnt the Shrike be killing in ...New Jersey? Or Western Pennsylvania...big time hunting country there, and geographically isolated. sigh, a murder wizard did it.)
posted by The Whelk at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2013
Leaving aside the usual TV drama thing where people can apparently teleport and transportation never costs time or money. ( Abigal got to his place from the Hospital...on foot? ...and some of the driving distances are .....they do know that Minnesota is nowhere near Baltimore right? Like why couldnt the Shrike be killing in ...New Jersey? Or Western Pennsylvania...big time hunting country there, and geographically isolated. sigh, a murder wizard did it.)
posted by The Whelk at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2013
Other than dawn-to-dusk fastforwards, there are few markers of elapsing time in the show. They foreground the compression of time in the opening scene when he asks for the security company's incident report like a surgeon asking for a scalpel (speaking of "surgical precision") and a hand hands it to him. Then he makes the inference that the phone was tapped and we instantly cut to a scene where this is confirmed before going back to where we were.
It's only 80-some miles between Baltimore and Quantico so we must assume Abigail is hospitalized in Virginia and not Minnesota, which is an ambitious 1200-odd miles from both. Unless Lecter is taking that learjet they used to have (remember that?) on joyrides, I can't think how else he would insist that Abigail go back and sleep in her own hospital bed after eating dinner at his house. (No, Abigail, I'm not trying to sexually exploit you, I just want to have you for dinner muahahaha.)
posted by tel3path at 2:08 AM on October 24, 2013
It's only 80-some miles between Baltimore and Quantico so we must assume Abigail is hospitalized in Virginia and not Minnesota, which is an ambitious 1200-odd miles from both. Unless Lecter is taking that learjet they used to have (remember that?) on joyrides, I can't think how else he would insist that Abigail go back and sleep in her own hospital bed after eating dinner at his house. (No, Abigail, I'm not trying to sexually exploit you, I just want to have you for dinner muahahaha.)
posted by tel3path at 2:08 AM on October 24, 2013
Yeah, the lack of exterior markers for time passing is both Just TV Compression ( no one goes to the bathroom on TV cause we only have 45 minutes here) and also the strange dreamlike tone of the series. The director, Slade, said he wanted to confuse when everything was happening by making it " infinitely late at night."
Oh god, that bed conversation- I can't be the only one who went to an extremely squirmy Humbert Humbert place when he said " you have to sleep in your bed" right? Gaaaaah.
Also, when you get down to it, all of Hannibal's sinister machinations and body count and framing all started with him being kind of a dick to a secretary and "accidentally" dropping a box of files.
posted by The Whelk at 8:23 AM on October 24, 2013
Oh god, that bed conversation- I can't be the only one who went to an extremely squirmy Humbert Humbert place when he said " you have to sleep in your bed" right? Gaaaaah.
Also, when you get down to it, all of Hannibal's sinister machinations and body count and framing all started with him being kind of a dick to a secretary and "accidentally" dropping a box of files.
posted by The Whelk at 8:23 AM on October 24, 2013
If you don't count the Feeding Will Graham People Sausage for Breakfast thing, yes.
Notice he doesn't apologize for dropping the files.
posted by tel3path at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2013
Notice he doesn't apologize for dropping the files.
posted by tel3path at 10:15 AM on October 24, 2013
He just kind of throws them at her and wanders away.
posted by The Whelk at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 10:16 AM on October 24, 2013
We went home decor shopping today and none of my arguments that I needed that huge stag skull with horns for the living room wall worked on the SO.
posted by The Whelk at 6:48 PM on October 24, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 6:48 PM on October 24, 2013
A huge stag skull? Dude, you practically need arguments not to buy something like that!
posted by Justinian at 8:19 PM on October 24, 2013
posted by Justinian at 8:19 PM on October 24, 2013
" it's ugly."
"no it's not! It's beautiful and natural and also educational."
"it doesn't go with anything."
"huge stag skulls are like garlic, they go with everything."
"this is just because you've been watching that show."
"Or maybe I 'm developing advanced tastes in exciting home decour, eh?"
"it's like five hundred dollars."
"but it comes with the mount!"
"No."
"You are so becoming tacos."
"what?"
"Let's go get tacos!"
posted by The Whelk at 10:23 PM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
"no it's not! It's beautiful and natural and also educational."
"it doesn't go with anything."
"huge stag skulls are like garlic, they go with everything."
"this is just because you've been watching that show."
"Or maybe I 'm developing advanced tastes in exciting home decour, eh?"
"it's like five hundred dollars."
"but it comes with the mount!"
"No."
"You are so becoming tacos."
"what?"
"Let's go get tacos!"
posted by The Whelk at 10:23 PM on October 24, 2013 [2 favorites]
You forgot to say "this is my design".
posted by tel3path at 4:38 AM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tel3path at 4:38 AM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
"I choose a dark blue wallpaper to contrast with the violet and white accents along the trim. I repeat the texture of wood grain with rough ceramic and bone accessories. Keeping a dark, complimentary color palette, I light key areas with pin lights to provide light without losing the repeating shadows created by the overhead beams. Finally, soften the focus away from the window with a line of asymmetrical plants in black stone plants.
This is my design."
posted by The Whelk at 8:01 AM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
This is my design."
posted by The Whelk at 8:01 AM on October 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
( total side note, during Hannibal's planning for the DINNER PARTY OF TERROR, he picks out a card from the ROLODEX Of THE RUDE, an IT Consultant. The dish he has planned for the IT guy? Sautéed Brains. Tee hee hee. )
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I do think, on current evidence, that the Hannibal fandom is pretty sophisticated.
If I don't post for a few days it will be because I died laughing over this.
posted by tel3path at 2:02 PM on October 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
If I don't post for a few days it will be because I died laughing over this.
posted by tel3path at 2:02 PM on October 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
Thank god I'm not on my home machine right now cause I was seized with the desire to do a Hannibal Martha Stewart Living cover.
" Dishes to die for! Baltimore's best kept secret gushes about the new meals you've never heard of."
"Exclusive! Inside Will Gahram's refurnished farmhouse getaway, "This IS my design!"
"1001 NEW uses for everyday things, by Abigail Hobbs."
"Making the MOST out of your indoor herb garden!"
"The good Doctor Gideon's prescription for the PERFECT FAMILY MEAL."
posted by The Whelk at 2:48 PM on October 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
" Dishes to die for! Baltimore's best kept secret gushes about the new meals you've never heard of."
"Exclusive! Inside Will Gahram's refurnished farmhouse getaway, "This IS my design!"
"1001 NEW uses for everyday things, by Abigail Hobbs."
"Making the MOST out of your indoor herb garden!"
"The good Doctor Gideon's prescription for the PERFECT FAMILY MEAL."
posted by The Whelk at 2:48 PM on October 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
You forgot stain removal.
posted by tel3path at 3:18 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by tel3path at 3:18 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Turn the photos around! Even more tips on getting your kitchen clean from America's stain removal specialists!"
posted by The Whelk at 3:38 PM on October 25, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 3:38 PM on October 25, 2013
Hannibal and traditional dinner party seating placement.
posted by The Whelk at 4:07 PM on October 25, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 4:07 PM on October 25, 2013
Fandoms are a good way to learn cool trivia that you wouldn't otherwise learn, is what I'm learning from this thread.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2013
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2013
Mad Men fandom is pretty much personally responsible for me knowing anything American about art and literature in the mid 20th century.
posted by The Whelk at 5:54 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 5:54 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know, that might be the thing that finally gets me watching that show.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:01 PM on October 25, 2013
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:01 PM on October 25, 2013
Guys i had an idea for a fanfic you have to stop me.
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 PM on October 25, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 PM on October 25, 2013
Nope! I finished it after three years and it got shelved by the publisher! POSSIBLY FOREVER. I'm never writing again! Drink drink drink glub glub glub.
posted by The Whelk at 10:33 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 10:33 PM on October 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Boooo! Word of God says Graham *can't* have ASD because it's an empathy disorder and we can't read social cues.
Well, I'd accept that he doesn't have ASD because nothing about the way the character is written requires it.
I don't accept the reasoning why, as per my comment way way way up above. And I would point out that Graham isn't empathizing with the killers by reading *social* cues.
He has a gut reaction to Lecter on first meeting, but is subsequently manipulated into letting him in because Lecter wants in. A lot of people experience this, of course, but the pattern is oh so very recognizable. "Please let me manipulate you? I really want to and it would make me really really happy (and noncooperation would make me really really angry)." You read someone perfectly, but discard your own reading because of their social presentation even though your first impression was dead on accurate. Again, a lot of people experience this but Graham is the only one getting the creeps from Lecter at all!
posted by tel3path at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2013
Well, I'd accept that he doesn't have ASD because nothing about the way the character is written requires it.
I don't accept the reasoning why, as per my comment way way way up above. And I would point out that Graham isn't empathizing with the killers by reading *social* cues.
He has a gut reaction to Lecter on first meeting, but is subsequently manipulated into letting him in because Lecter wants in. A lot of people experience this, of course, but the pattern is oh so very recognizable. "Please let me manipulate you? I really want to and it would make me really really happy (and noncooperation would make me really really angry)." You read someone perfectly, but discard your own reading because of their social presentation even though your first impression was dead on accurate. Again, a lot of people experience this but Graham is the only one getting the creeps from Lecter at all!
posted by tel3path at 2:25 PM on October 26, 2013
I gotta clarify:
Insofar as people are using social cues to hide their intentions, reading social cues isn't going to help Will empathize with killers.
Will doesn't read social cues to empathize with killers, he reads crime scenes. This is established from the beginning. He reads blood spatter, body positions, autopsy reports and incident logs in order to empathize with killers.
He's not necessarily better than anyone else in detecting when he's in the actual presence of a killer. Or, if better, not necessarily faster.
Whelk, I would never write a fanfic, and neither would you, but if you didn't want to not collaborate that might or might not be an offer I might take the opposite choice to not refuse.
posted by tel3path at 2:34 PM on October 26, 2013
Insofar as people are using social cues to hide their intentions, reading social cues isn't going to help Will empathize with killers.
Will doesn't read social cues to empathize with killers, he reads crime scenes. This is established from the beginning. He reads blood spatter, body positions, autopsy reports and incident logs in order to empathize with killers.
He's not necessarily better than anyone else in detecting when he's in the actual presence of a killer. Or, if better, not necessarily faster.
Whelk, I would never write a fanfic, and neither would you, but if you didn't want to not collaborate that might or might not be an offer I might take the opposite choice to not refuse.
posted by tel3path at 2:34 PM on October 26, 2013
Pretty sure Will is psychic.
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on October 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:42 PM on October 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's what they say about ASD people, too, sometimes.
Though he could be psychic in the same way Lecter is demonic. Nevertheless, for every magical power there has to be a corresponding rational explanation. E.g. Lecter magicked the ear into Will's throat, but also, he physically jammed it down there. (How Will didn't choke to death in his sleep, I can't explain, but Lecter's the surgeon, not me.)
posted by tel3path at 2:50 PM on October 26, 2013
Though he could be psychic in the same way Lecter is demonic. Nevertheless, for every magical power there has to be a corresponding rational explanation. E.g. Lecter magicked the ear into Will's throat, but also, he physically jammed it down there. (How Will didn't choke to death in his sleep, I can't explain, but Lecter's the surgeon, not me.)
posted by tel3path at 2:50 PM on October 26, 2013
Speaking of fanart, I'm still looking for the bottle of bleach.
posted by tel3path at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2013
posted by tel3path at 3:24 PM on October 26, 2013
I have my personal belief that Jack is blind to how creepy Hannibal is because he's so enamoured with the idea of having such a cultivated, aristocratic friend.( Look at how much he geeks out over the food! He's the perfect audience for him!)
posted by The Whelk at 7:07 PM on October 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:07 PM on October 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
I might not be not, not interested in a collaboration, maybe.
( oh god it was based on the stupidest, fluffiest, AU promt ever too.)
posted by The Whelk at 7:16 PM on October 26, 2013
( oh god it was based on the stupidest, fluffiest, AU promt ever too.)
posted by The Whelk at 7:16 PM on October 26, 2013
( previous totally nonexistent fan fiction for comparison.)
posted by The Whelk at 7:17 PM on October 26, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 7:17 PM on October 26, 2013
I feel very close to Mr. Benson, okay?
It's not just cause we dress identically.
posted by The Whelk at 7:31 PM on October 26, 2013
It's not just cause we dress identically.
posted by The Whelk at 7:31 PM on October 26, 2013
Oh, the flower symbolism! Oh, this show is so generous to its fans, isn't it? Knowing we'll love to analyze the heck out of everything, they're sure to give us plenty to analyze.
I feel so welcomed and flattered and included into a rich world of knowledge, excitement and sensuality that was until now just out of my reach. This must be what it is like to be entertained by the man himself, our Dr Lect-
...um...
um, no. They wouldn't.
They wouldn't would they? You don't suppose?
[get a grip tel3path it's just a tv show]
[yeah but they're calling the hiatus the he-ate-us, they even got us to do that ourselves, what if
posted by tel3path at 3:56 AM on October 27, 2013
I feel so welcomed and flattered and included into a rich world of knowledge, excitement and sensuality that was until now just out of my reach. This must be what it is like to be entertained by the man himself, our Dr Lect-
...um...
um, no. They wouldn't.
They wouldn't would they? You don't suppose?
[get a grip tel3path it's just a tv show]
[yeah but they're calling the hiatus the he-ate-us, they even got us to do that ourselves, what if
posted by tel3path at 3:56 AM on October 27, 2013
Long pork?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:01 AM on October 27, 2013
posted by zombieflanders at 8:01 AM on October 27, 2013
*amused half smile, inner conviction to turn you into tacos*
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 AM on October 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 AM on October 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
And you know, the first scene in which we see Lecter eating a meal he's prepared, we think "all that effort, just for himself?"
No wonder the rest of the series is about his efforts on the other side of recruiting people for dinner.
posted by tel3path at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2013
No wonder the rest of the series is about his efforts on the other side of recruiting people for dinner.
posted by tel3path at 11:50 AM on October 27, 2013
Hey now he could have someone else sitting opposite him, maybe one of his serial killer minions friends.
posted by The Whelk at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 11:59 AM on October 27, 2013
WHAT TEL3PATH AND I DID WHEN NO ONE WAS LOOKING, BEHOLD THE HANNIBAL/METAFILTER CROSS OVER FIC
posted by The Whelk at 2:40 PM on November 13, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:40 PM on November 13, 2013 [10 favorites]
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posted by The Whelk at 10:02 PM on October 16, 2013