Rocky Mountain High
June 4, 2014 12:28 PM   Subscribe

New York Times editorialist Maureen Dowd traveled to Denver to try some THC-laced cookies. Her experience was unpleasant.

As she noted in her column, THC kills. Perhaps, even worse, you might not be getting anything from that edible.
posted by dances_with_sneetches (261 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite
 
Haha, that shit is funnnnnny!
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 12:31 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


But then I felt a scary shudder go through my body and brain. I barely made it from the desk to the bed, where I lay curled up in a hallucinatory state for the next eight hours. I was thirsty but couldn’t move to get water. Or even turn off the lights. I was panting and paranoid, sure that when the room-service waiter knocked and I didn’t answer, he’d call the police and have me arrested for being unable to handle my candy.

WUT. Is she being for real? Who is the audience supposed to be for this? Even Barack Obama has got to be rolling his eyes at this Reefer Madness mess.
posted by rue72 at 12:34 PM on June 4, 2014 [36 favorites]


Vox: "The Times's story suggests this isn't the case, and that we have 'scant hard data' to prove otherwise. But we actually have a good amount of data on Colorado's experience, and it's all much more positive than legalization opponents would like you to believe."
posted by rewil at 12:34 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I can imagine what a good time she is all high on chardonnay and mediocre movies on demand.
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:35 PM on June 4, 2014 [22 favorites]


I'm really hopeful that this is part of the NYT sending its entire stable of columnists to Denver to get high.
posted by Corinth at 12:35 PM on June 4, 2014 [47 favorites]


Well, she was a moron! Despite being a supposedly seasoned reporter, she took the stuff all by herself in a hotel room without doing even minimal research as to dosage. And then wrote a NYT column about how terrible it all is.
posted by shivohum at 12:36 PM on June 4, 2014 [76 favorites]


I'm trying to curtail my schadenfreude, but the idea of MoDo having a bad brownie trip is just delightful to me.
posted by gngstrMNKY at 12:36 PM on June 4, 2014 [56 favorites]


REEFER MADNESS is reeeeeeaaaaallll!!
posted by briank at 12:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Her experience still sounds much more pleasant than being arrested, incarcerated, and then being denied benefits and jobs on account of being a convicted drug felon.
posted by Panjandrum at 12:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [236 favorites]


She says one or two bites, but then she says the bar should be cut into 16 pieces...all the bars I've gotten have been segmented, like a Hershey Bar. I guess I am experienced enough to know to take it slow with something new, and if I recall, I got that way by ASKING PEOPLE WHO KNEW.

Let's eat a ton of pot for the first time alone in a strange place. Brilliant.
posted by padraigin at 12:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [20 favorites]


I just drank a gallon of vodka and I feel terrible, so what the fuck
posted by theodolite at 12:38 PM on June 4, 2014 [244 favorites]


Even knowing people who have BAD reactions to pot upon every use (and continuing to do it, oddly) I think shivohum has it right. Incorrect usage and poor preparation.
posted by Seamus at 12:38 PM on June 4, 2014


TL;DR: MoDo has no idea what she is doing with marijuana, and in the interest of responsible journalism, overindulges in edibles while alone, and freaks out. Thus, marijuana is bad for everyone. *yawn*
posted by deliciae at 12:39 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


Wait until she finds out that it was just paprika.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:39 PM on June 4, 2014 [22 favorites]


Ah, I'd wondered what the inspiration for Thomas Friedman's bad trip was.
posted by doop at 12:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [13 favorites]


Reading her article was unpleasant. She should have tried it again with the correct dosage.
posted by GrapeApiary at 12:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


If she hadn't hated being high, what would the article have been? "Watched a rom-com the other night at the hotel and it was really, really good. Hilarious. You should really see it. Room service was fantastic, and so was the warm bath I took. Super relaxing evening."
posted by rue72 at 12:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [42 favorites]


SOME people where very inexperienced and chain smoked five joints at Another World coffeehouse in Amsterdam and has no memory of the following 12 hours except for an argument with a bike.
posted by The Whelk at 12:41 PM on June 4, 2014 [30 favorites]


Someone I know has had experiences about that bad from eating marijuana. tTy learned two things:

1. Be careful about dosage when taking any drug, be it recreational or prescription.
2. Maybe marijuana is not for them.

I find it strange that these are not the lessons Maureen Dowd learned.
posted by 256 at 12:42 PM on June 4, 2014 [24 favorites]


Reading her article was unpleasant. She should have tried it again with the correct dosage.

Maybe I'll try reading her article again, but with a correct dosage of cannabis.
posted by entropone at 12:42 PM on June 4, 2014 [15 favorites]


Huh, and here I thought of all people that would benefit from a toke or a thousand it would be "my breakfast is 9 gallons of black coffee and nothing else" Maureen Dowd.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:43 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


I hope she at least got to expense that.
posted by jcking77 at 12:44 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


To be fair though, beginners should not start with edibles.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:44 PM on June 4, 2014 [30 favorites]


It's pretty stupid to sell a "16-serving" candy bar or a "6.5-serving" cookie, especially if it's not clearly labeled.
posted by designbot at 12:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


Dowd is an execrable person.

Still not sure how THC kills though.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


I had a small quantity of ground-up bud hanging around that wasn't quite kind enough to be useful in the one-hitter, so I made some oil, which I then gave to my brother-in-law because I really don't need to be high for hours at a time right now. I had no idea how much was in there--less than a gram, for sure--so I suggested that it might be a couple of medium-sized doses. Evidently it was more like five or six pretty heavy experiences, two or three of which he had all at once.

Point being, terrible NYT reporting aside, it's important that we know exactly what's in our edibles, because the duration of effect is so long (and because the cycle of omygodibrokemybrain can be hard to defeat when you've had too much). That we've got inaccurate (or no) labels is flat-out irresponsible.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


I look forward to her next column, in which she mistakes a bottle of vodka for a bottle of beer and drinks the whole thing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [16 favorites]


The second or third time I drank alcohol, I decided to give a six pack of beer and some tequila a go. The results were... unpleasant. Particularly the next day, when I had a fairly time-critical project meeting that was not enhanced by the desire to hurl.

Probably there's something wrong with consuming intoxicants in Colorado that produces undesirable results, that being the only common element I can detect between my experience and the one detailed here.
posted by sparktinker at 12:48 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


To be fair though, beginners should not start with edibles.

Why? [serious]
posted by desjardins at 12:48 PM on June 4, 2014


Reminds me of one time in the 1960s & a guy had his first experience with pot, and he'd toke and wait a minute, and say "I don't feel anything" and wait a minute more for the j to come around and toke and say "I don't feel anything." He kept saying that, right through the point where he really didn't feel anything.

Pot was pretty feeble back then. Good times.
posted by hexatron at 12:48 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


AWW, POOR BABY!

(can she do shrooms next?)
posted by bruce at 12:48 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


Ha, this is the funniest fucking thing I have read in a looooooong while. Laughing out loud as I type this.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:49 PM on June 4, 2014


The second or third time I drank alcohol, I decided to give a six pack of beer and some tequila a go. The results were... unpleasant.

Oh god. The first time I got drunk it was on champagne and brandy. Do. Not. Recommend.
posted by desjardins at 12:49 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


Probably there's something wrong with consuming intoxicants in Colorado that produces undesirable results, that being the only common element I can detect between my experience and the one detailed here.

Actually, I wonder if that's true, because of the altitude?
posted by rue72 at 12:49 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


desjardins: Edibles take longer to onset, which might cause you to eat more than you should. And they last longer, too - like, twice as long or more. So if you ate too much you're stuck with the effects for longer than if you'd vaped/smoked.
posted by Corinth at 12:50 PM on June 4, 2014 [16 favorites]


Maureen Dowd tries bourbon for the first time. Drinks the whole bottle on her own, starts puking, calls for more alcohol legislation.

Maureen Dowd tries loose leaf tobacco for the first time. Puts five pouches worth in her mouth, gets nauseated, starts shivering, sees ghosts at the edge of her vision, sees her mother waiting for her, gets the shakes, falls asleep, has a good nap, calls for more tobacco legislation, calls her sister and asks her how she's doing.

Maureen Dowd tries yoga for the first time. Throws her back out, knocks over an entire line of Warrior 1s, they fall like dominoes, leggings and biker shorts spin through the air comically, the yoga instructor loses his shit, Maureen Dowd quickly crawls away from the yoga studio in shame, out into the city streets, wiggling her way slowly back to her apartment like a malformed toad, heroically pens a column calling for Buddhists to be banned from the country.

Maureen Dowd tries MetaFilter for the first time. Pens a horrible little narrow-minded column, gets called out for it in MetaTalk, flames out, like hardcore, like cortex writes her a stern little note, asks her to stop spamming the site, and temp bans her for a week. Maureen Dowd takes her anger out on the squirrels and the birds and the trees and the flowers, she's throwing dirt, she's screaming, Central Park is just a mess.

Nobody taught Maureen Dowd to be a good person, nobody taught her to know her limits or to have an open mind, how could you blame poor little Maureen Dowd for freaking out, she's just a little old lady, can you even imagine your mom on acid, Maureen Dowd asks in her column, can you imagine little old me suffering and sweating in my Hilton suite, I had just the most perfect little breakfast planned and I just couldn't eat it because what if they were batteries?
posted by saucy_knave at 12:51 PM on June 4, 2014 [231 favorites]


> To be fair though, beginners should not start with edibles.

When I was in school, some guys I knew took a big bag of the cheapest, lowest-quality shake you could possibly imagine, threw it into some cookie dough and invited some friends over to test the results, all you can eat-style. The cookies were green and tasted like hay. It was a crazy fucking night.

Or, like, so I hear.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:51 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


A body stone can be intense, especially if you are unused to the feeling, or if you are older (and don't like getting wasted).

We have cookies but I am super careful to eat just enough to get a buzz, which makes listening to music really pleasurable.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:52 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


This is silly.

It's super easy to overdo it with edibles. FILM AT ELEVEN
posted by my favorite orange at 12:52 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Drinking three mudslides after a beer and a glass of wine is not a good idea either and will make you hate Kahlua forever.

Or...so I hear.
posted by emjaybee at 12:52 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Maureen Dowd tries MetaFilter for the first time. Pens a horrible little narrow-minded column, gets called out for it in MetaTalk, flames out, like hardcore, like cortex writes her a stern little note, asks her to stop spamming the site, and temp bans her for a week.
That would explain a number of past incidents, actually.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:54 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


So some people I know decided to split up a pan of pot brownies between the three of them. Two of them baked the brownies at home and then would go meet the third at a bar to give them their share.

The third person sat at the bar and waited for the other two, who eventually showed up. They looked a bit nervous, but then again this was a drug transporting operation. They passed the tupperware with the final third to the waiting friend who then partook of a brownie and summoned the waitress to put an order in for a pitcher of sangria.

After the waitress left, the two bakers looked surprised. "Are you going to eat the rest?" they asked. "At some point. Maybe I'll have another later tonight. You?"

Surprise turned to horror. The expressions on the two's faces, wide eyed and frozen in time.

"We ate all ours."

"Uh. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that. I mean, you wouldn't eat a third of a pan of plain brownies."

"Uhh. I think we're in trouble. Everyone knows we took too much. Stop talking so loud. Shhh. We need to go now."

Horror turns to panic turns to the Longest Subway Ride Ever. Luckily The Bitches Who Were Minding Their Own Business (But Were On To Us) didn't narc or point fingers or do anything other than get off the train at their stop, so we-I-mean-they dodged that bullet.

So 1/3rd of the group had a pleasant night watching UHF while making sure water glasses were full and the other 2/3rds were full on Dowd'd.

A+ would do again.
(So I'm told.)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [40 favorites]


I just came back from Bolivia, where it's legal, to do cocaine for the first time in my life and YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED NEXT!

(editors of major american magazines can contact my people for the rights to the rest of this story)
posted by bruce at 12:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


a "6.5-serving" cookie

Frankly that's a bad product. People don't typically split cookies. Cookies are understood to be single-serving by most people, even those big Starbucks cookies. And you're going to suggest people eat only a 6th of one at once? Cutting into 6 equal portions is kinda difficult to begin with (what? I have a hard time visualizing thirds, OK), and who eats a slice of cookie? Just make 6 small ones.
posted by Hoopo at 12:56 PM on June 4, 2014 [17 favorites]


"Uh. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that. I mean, you wouldn't eat a third of a pan of plain brownies."

You and I have different friends.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:57 PM on June 4, 2014 [60 favorites]


Usually you just take a pinch of the cookie and save the rest for later. I dunno, is pacing yourself *that* counter-intuitive in general? Has Maureen Dowd never shared tapas?
posted by rue72 at 12:58 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


See, this is why I don't hit the maryjane anymore. While I LOVED the way it made me feel in high school/freshman year in college, now all it does is make me massively paranoid and want to sleep for eighteen hours at a time. Also, why ride the bus when you can fly? MoDo is an idiot. Like other commenters have noted, perhaps the pot just isn't for her.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:58 PM on June 4, 2014


I think the strong dose just made her fixate on all the worthless, shitty columns she's written and that's what made the experience so unpleasant.
posted by planetesimal at 12:59 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


> all the bars I've gotten have been segmented, like a Hershey Bar

Kiva's "weaker" bars are 60mg, segmented into 4 pieces. I find that one third of that is enough & I take my "medicine" nearly daily. The bars are hard as fuck, so I basically smash them then weigh out 1/12 of a bar's worth of fragments. So... don't let segmentation be the final word, especially for newbies.

I've done the "nothing's happening, let's try more" after 1/2 hour with brownies. (set a timer for a full hour peoples!) Did you know that Strunz & Farah are a psychedelic band?
posted by morganw at 1:00 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


" ... I was panting and paranoid ..."
I've always imagined that she wrote all of her columns in that condition.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:00 PM on June 4, 2014 [33 favorites]


This American Life had an episode about drug stories a couple weeks ago, and their takeaway was basically that stories of people's exploits while they were high were just kind of boring to the sober crowd. I completely disagree, I love reading all of your, um, friends' stories and I always look forward to a good pot thread here.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [9 favorites]


If pot is going to be legal in this country (which I think it will, and should, be), we need to start having a culture of sober babysitting for first-timers. If you're about to try a new drug, whatever it might be, you should probably have someone who's experienced with it (and gives a shit about your health and welfare) on hand to guide you through the process. Poor Maureen Dowd would have had a much nicer time if she had done her homework beforehand, and had a friend who could have turned on the cartoon channel for her to zone out to.

Babysitter guides could make a very good contribution to normalizing pot in the culture, and making sure people don't make uncomfortable/stupid mistakes. It's not acceptable to drink and drive, but we all had to learn together as a society that drunk driving is dangerous, and experimentation was part of that learning process. The same process of experimentation to learn how to have pot as part of our culture would be more productive and safer if it happens, at least at first, under experienced supervision.
posted by wormwood23 at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [19 favorites]


At least we have a new slang term now for overindulging in intoxicants due solely to lack of awareness and self-control.

"Man, I drank, like, twelve beers last night, and I don't know how many shots of tequila. What was I thinking? I totally went Dowd, man."
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [24 favorites]


Dowd doesn't mention which hotel she was at. I wonder if it was one of these marijuana friendly locations? The state law requires private property owners to OK consumption on the property.
posted by audi alteram partem at 1:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Her experience was unpleasant.

My experience reading her columns has been that her life is a series of unpleasant experiences which I get to live vicariously while sipping tea, wondering why I'm putting myself through the unpleasant experience or living her unpleasant experiences second-hand.

Worst vicarious experience ever.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:03 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


I think the pot made her wake up to the revelation: I'm Maureen Dowd.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:03 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


Actually, I wonder if that's true, because of the altitude?

Don't know about weed, but it's something of a tale you scare visitors with around here that one's tolerance is distinctly different at altitude than lower down, particularly if one is acclimated. During the DNC, it's said, the ERs had a continual parade of hard-partying political types who had come to grief this way. If you live here, though, your tolerance is pretty much whatever it is and craft beer is probably more of an element in the state identity than weed, at least at the moment. The issue at the time was more that, well, I was 21.

And now it's very possible that someone who very much resembles me may be going through the same sort of process with respect to some other substance, in that they may or may not have smoked something on three occasions where experimental results were 1) AAAAA I inhaled burning things cough wheeze no more smoking anything anymore tonight croak gasp 2) Okay right no inhaling the burning stuff, not sure if that worked hey did I do this right EVERYTHING IS HILARIOUS 3) okay right so the guy at the store said that this was great for creative thinking ACK BURNY oh hey I didn't pack that right so let's try again huh did that work I AM THE WHOLE UNIVERSE DUDE.

Put it this way, it will be a good long fucking while before I -- er, they -- lay a finger on edibles.
posted by sparktinker at 1:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


This is your brain on weed kids.
posted by leemcalilly at 1:05 PM on June 4, 2014


To be fair though, beginners should not start with edibles.

Why? [serious]


Yeah, like some have already said - it's really hard to control the dose because of the delayed onset. A really good labeling system might be able to fix this? I dunno - it's hard because everyone is different. Smoking is pretty much instant response, so you can kind of take a hit and see where you are, and stop when you're like "whoa I'm good." But eating it is just like surrendering yourself to whatever is gonna happen. And from my experience, edibles tend to have some pretty high levels of pot in them.

I also find the high to be much stronger and last much longer - usually much longer than I want it to. I dunno - when I have edibles I usually spend the first part of it under the covers being like whyyyy so hiiiiighhhh and then the last couple hours being like "good god why am I still stoned?"
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:06 PM on June 4, 2014 [8 favorites]


Beginners should be handed a loaded Pax or Firefly, or perhaps a lit joint. Edibles? Nah. Save that until you know what the stuff should feel like.
posted by planetesimal at 1:08 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


I have now more respect for her than I used to have. She made a fool of herself. She knows that. And yet she wrote about her stupidity and ill advised moves.
posted by Postroad at 1:08 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


I love reading all of your, um, friends' stories and I always look forward to a good pot thread here.

All white people talk about when they get high… is other times they got high.
posted by Panjandrum at 1:10 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


I completely disagree, I love reading all of your, um, friends' stories and I always look forward to a good pot thread here.

One of the first times I ever got, you know, high, I remember thinking, "Huh, I'm not really sure anything is happening here." I shrugged. And then I started laughing. When I tell the story, I tell people I was laughing for like a half hour but it could have been thirty seconds, I really don't know.

You know that individual who sits at the back of the class with their undiagnosed ADHD and just sort of entertains themselves? That's been me my whole life. And someone got that person high.

A short while later that night, I was selling bibles* on television.** I wanted my audience*** to know about the fine products I offered and then I decided it should be a call-in show. So one of my friends called in**** and I explained Jesus to him. All in all, pretty good night.

* I don't know why I decided I'd start selling bibles. I'm not Christian or anything.

** I was not on television. I wasn't hallucinating being on television or anything, I just decided, "I'll be on TV now," and that was that.

*** Three of my friends who were in the same room.

**** He was sitting three feet away.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:10 PM on June 4, 2014 [29 favorites]


i dont even smoke, but this is hilariously, embarrassingly terrible from the awful headline on down. what a joke. she deserves any flak she gets from this.
posted by young_son at 1:13 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


"Huh, I'm not really sure anything is happening here." I shrugged. And then I started laughing."

I think this is like the universal first time experience I swear. First time I smoked weed, I looked at my friends and was like, "I'm not high. If I were high, I couldn't do this." And then I started shaking my head back and forth really fast. And they were like, "dude, you wouldn't be doing that unless you were high." And then I laughed for what could have been 30 seconds or 3 hours. And then I ate all of my friends Chex.
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:13 PM on June 4, 2014 [25 favorites]


I know someone who is all "pot never effects me, maybe it's not strong enough." and I've gotten past pointing out that he just spent ten minutes laughing at the concept of toes before falling asleep petting the shag pillow like it was a cat.
posted by The Whelk at 1:16 PM on June 4, 2014 [13 favorites]


I live in Denver and have tried out some of the dispensary edibles, many of which are quite strong. For instance, the 2.5 oz macadamia nut cookie I have in my cupboard purportedly has 100 mg of active THC; if I take more than a nickel-sized piece of it at a time, I start to feel pretty uncomfortable. It can be very easy to overdose and have a bad experience, especially as a first-timer.
posted by el chupa nibre at 1:16 PM on June 4, 2014


Next up: David Brooks tries jazz music for the first time.
posted by drezdn at 1:17 PM on June 4, 2014 [53 favorites]


I've tried Maureen Dowd in the past. It must be an acquired taste because it did nothing for me except a throbbing headache.
posted by chavenet at 1:17 PM on June 4, 2014 [15 favorites]


I actually feel bad for her. She could have easily had a pleasant experience, but lack of research, knowledge about dosages and of labeling created a shitty experience for her. Pot overdoses suck, and it's super easy to have one with a candy bar / edible. They don't kick in right away, and it's oh-so-easy to think, "Huh, it's not working. Better have more" before a powerful, unpleasant high kicks in.

She shouldn't have gone through that. Maybe she has a sensitivity to pot. Who knows. But this was avoidable.
posted by zarq at 1:18 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


Corinth: "I'm really hopeful that this is part of the NYT sending its entire stable of columnists to Denver to get high."

At the risk of insulting him, based on the available evidence of him being a Cool Dude, I'm not sure they'd need to send Paul Krugman all the way to Denver. If you know what I mean. They may not even need to send him out of his living room.
posted by scrump at 1:18 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


Don Adams (Get Smart fame) told a story of the first time he tried marijuana. It was just as he was going to be the opening act for Mae West. He got up on stage and shouted, repeating, "Good Evening, Ladies and Gentleman" for about thirty minutes.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:18 PM on June 4, 2014 [8 favorites]


Next up: David Brooks tries jazz music for the first time.

He's not over the invention of the waltz, there are young ladies present to watch the devil's own two step!
posted by The Whelk at 1:19 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


Between this and the David Brooks op ed a while back, what's the NY Times' deal with pot? Do they have some deep seated reason to be so against it, and to be so tragically unhip in the process? You'd think they could find someone who actually knows someone who smokes from time to time.

Do they hate doritos, and are afraid of their excess manufacture? Do they own stock in liquor companies? It just seems bizarre for a paper to promote gay marriage, and then run reefer madness op eds.
posted by zabuni at 1:19 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


When I first heard this story, my brain thought, "Oh my God, somebody told her to do this as a joke and she thought they were serious," which isn't true, I know, but which is the only way my brain can wrap itself around this story.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 1:19 PM on June 4, 2014


desjardins: "To be fair though, beginners should not start with edibles.

Why? [serious]
"

Imagine if it took an hour or so before you started feeling a beer or a shot of booze, but you didn't really know that and were expecting something sooner. After about 5 minutes you take another one, hoping for something to happen. And still nothing 5 more minutes later, so you take another one, and so on and so on.

Guess what happens about 50 minutes later?

With inhaling it's pretty much immediate (more or less) so you can very rapidly tell the dosage.
posted by Big_B at 1:20 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


My friend's pot stories aren't that great because these days my friend is rationing her remaining pot. She's discovered that it's pretty much the only thing that makes electrolysis tolerable. Before, she used to leave after one-hour sessions and cry in her car for a while afterwards about how much it felt like cosmic punishment for being trans, and now she breezes through three-hour sessions and makes tacos when she gets home.

I'll also note that David Brooks already has his own eye-roller of a pot story (complete with a satirical response piece).
posted by Corinth at 1:20 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


I've done the "nothing's happening, let's try more" after 1/2 hour with brownies.

This perfectly describes my first experience with LSD, except that it was with LSD.
posted by Panjandrum at 1:21 PM on June 4, 2014 [14 favorites]


The only time I really tried edibles was when I was in such throbbing cramping pain from a norovirus that I was taking anything I could get my hands on to make. It. Stop.

Oh wait there was once a food truck in NYC that had edibles stocked under the counter for people with the right card. That resulted in a fun afternoon at the Botantical Gardens being repeatedly told to stay out of the trees.

The best pot story on metafilter, or anywhere THE DAY OF THE PANCAKES
posted by The Whelk at 1:22 PM on June 4, 2014 [24 favorites]


Friedman got so Fried, man.
posted by benzenedream at 1:24 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


It took all night before it began to wear off, distressingly slowly. The next day, a consultant at a liquor shop where I was conducting an interview mentioned that magnums are supposed to be divided into 12 glasses for novices; but that recommendation hadn’t been on the label.
posted by bassomatic at 1:26 PM on June 4, 2014 [10 favorites]


I just can't believe what a phenomenally irresponsible and stupid thing she, a grown, allegedly sophisticated woman, did. She went to a city where she didn't know anyone, locked herself in an unfamiliar hotel room, and took an unknown dose of a substance she had never ingested before. That is pretty much 100% guaranteed to give you a bad time. All she had to do was go to Erowid and she could have found out what a bad idea it was.

And also, think about what it really says about cannabis: someone took a massive overdose and got out of it with just an embarrassing story. If that had been cocaine, heroin, meth, prescription painkillers, tylenol, or alcohol, she would be dead, or at least in the hospital.
posted by vibrotronica at 1:26 PM on June 4, 2014 [81 favorites]


Hello, Coloradan here. There's been a lot of in-state talk and trade group talk about what to do about things like this. There have been incidents of kids getting sick, or their parents finding out that "hey, kids will eat unlabeled cookies, and not just 1/6.5ths of one". And there was one dude who wound up killing his wife after eating something.

So yeah, digesting thc is apparently different than inhaling it, and people don't seem to be aware of how the drug moves into the body. I think it would be a super-responsible thing to do for recreational mj shops to have a ... pot butler.... bong sommelier... person size you up and say OK, you're a total noob at this, and you're 150 pounds. You should try this 10mg cookie first; just the one, don't try anything else; just this. Hang out if you want, we have a TV and some adult swim here, it's cool.

Jumping right into high potency edibles and BHO is like getting a ducati the week after taking off your training wheel.
posted by boo_radley at 1:27 PM on June 4, 2014 [18 favorites]


So is this an homage to that part in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" when Thompson goes to the law enforcement convention?
posted by drjimmy11 at 1:27 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


WUT. Is she being for real? Who is the audience supposed to be for this? Even Barack Obama has got to be rolling his eyes at this Reefer Madness mess.

*raises hand*

I have the absolute WORST response to weed - paranoia of everyone around me, fear of myself, fear that I will be stoned FOREVER and will never come down again. It's ridiculous.

But my solution is that I know how I react to it, so just don't smoke it. I have enjoyed X, mescaline, shrooms, etc in the past. But every single time I've smoked weed over the past 15-20 years it's been terrrrrible.

The human body/brain is a funny thing.
posted by Windigo at 1:28 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


bassomatic: "The next day, a consultant at a liquor shop where I was conducting an interview mentioned that magnums of champagne are supposed to be divided into 12 glasses for novices; but that recommendation hadn’t been on the label."

Yes, this sort of thing.
posted by boo_radley at 1:28 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


boo_radley, that's an interesting perspective and i'll be sure to use Bong Sommelier as the name of the first album of my band, Pot Butler.
posted by entropone at 1:29 PM on June 4, 2014 [8 favorites]


This perfectly describes my first experience with LSD, except that it was with LSD.

Let's give Dowd some blotter and sit back and watch the show.
posted by kgasmart at 1:29 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


...a friend of mine referred to his grey market job as "Hallucination geisha." for a free and cost of materials, he'd set you up nicely for whatever substance you wanted to try in a safe, non-threatening environment as Sober Companion in sweatpants and a Tori Amos t-shirt.
posted by The Whelk at 1:31 PM on June 4, 2014 [33 favorites]


Once upon a time, my parents found a plastic baggie in my youngest sister's bureau drawer: she seriously tried to convince them "it's just oregano! I was gonna cook spaghetti!"

Our father's reply was, "Do you people think you invented marijuana?!? What the hell do you think I was smoking when I was your age?!?"

Moral of the story: your parents may look boring, but they were crazy teenagers once, too.
posted by easily confused at 1:35 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


With liquor, people understand what they’re getting themselves into.

I'm trying to come up with a funny joke but more and more I think this article is not only incredibly misleading but the inclusion of the above statement makes it dangerous. Not everyone is an accomplished chardonnay drinker you know?
posted by Big_B at 1:36 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Usually you just take a pinch of the cookie and save the rest for later. I dunno, is pacing yourself *that* counter-intuitive in general?

What I mean is, people don't typically take just a pinch of a regular cookie and stash the rest away for 6 other occasions. Baked goods go stale, fast, and it just seems ill-conceived to put it in the form of something that people are accustomed to chowing down on by themselves when that's not what you want them to do with it.

And frankly I've never seen or tried "that kind" of cookie sold in anything other than single servings. And I've been at this quite a while.
posted by Hoopo at 1:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


I spent a week in Colorado on business. I was all by myself. My wife forbade me from doing any pot - smoked or eaten - while I was there. Not because she was against it in principle, but because she knew that getting high by yourself for the first time ever was a bad idea.

The author should have listened to my wife.

(I still have the shame of having visited Colorado and still having never tried pot.)
posted by charred husk at 1:38 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


but they were crazy teenagers once, too.

That photo of my Mom in a white leather miniskirt holding up a huge old' bong against the L.A skyline got me out of so many arguments in High School.
posted by The Whelk at 1:39 PM on June 4, 2014 [26 favorites]


Once upon a time the New York Times had a paywall for premium. Anybody could load their pages to see the front page or the coverage of the Yankees and the Knicks, but some features required a premium membership. Maureen Dowd and Tom Friedman and David Brooks were classified as premium content.

Those were the days of peak opinion.
posted by bukvich at 1:39 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


If the bar was meant to be divided up into 16 doses, she may have also noticed that the amount she consumed herself was really expensive.
posted by Adam_S at 1:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]




I want to say that as a pharmacologist, I teach medical students. I have rarely taught the lecture on marijuana, but this makes for a fascinating read. So much demonizing has gone in to smoking pot, that very real potential problems from ingesting pot are just not mentioned.

I don't mean I agree with the above story that marijuana may have resulted in homicide. I'm sure there are a hundred other stories of someone ingesting coffee before murder. However, I do think the Windigo post is significant. Some people react badly to marijuana. Ingesting marijuana is a crap-shoot.

Dronabinol is typically 2.5 to 10 mg THC. Brownies that are advertising with 100 mg are significant doses and labels with practical guidelines should be placed on them.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:42 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


This is what happens when you try to put a square peg in a round hole. Well a square Meg anyway.
posted by humanfont at 1:42 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Oh wait, one time I was fleeing Astoria ( cause nothing good ever happens in Astoria) after visiting a friend's art collective drug house, I had the distinct memory of having a cookie there and just as I was thinking " it wasn't one of those cookies...right?" right when I realized it was taking a very long time to walk up the stairway to the train platform cause I was holding onto the railing for dear life because I had become convince gravity was reversed and I was going to fall up.
posted by The Whelk at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


No pity for Maureen Dowd, but now I have a vague desire to get stoned. Of course, I would just fall asleep.
posted by Kitteh at 1:47 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


I'm not a pot kind of person (I've never tried, despite being from Colorado originally - just doesn't seem like the sort of drug I'd be into). But even I know that you don't let the pothead make the brownies for the party. And if you *do*, you make sure everybody there knows about it and doses appropriately.

(I learned this in college, where even us soberish sort of people can pick up a few things. I showed up two hours after the start of what was supposed to be a big party-- but the pothead had made the brownies. The lights were all off and nothing much was going on, as all the folk with less ridiculous tolerances were feeling Dowdish. I'd never seen people actually throw up from pot before. Kinda hope I don't again.)
posted by nat at 1:49 PM on June 4, 2014


My worst (do I mean worst?) edibles story actually took place in CO, but long before the whole legalizing weed thing.

I had a layover for a couple hours at the Denver airport. My best friend lived in Denver at the time and we hadn't seen each other for a bit so she drove out to have a beer with me before my flight.

Well, my flight ended up getting delayed by about 5 hours, which we spent at the bar getting pretty drunk. Finally it's time for me to go and she hands me this loaf of banana bread and is like hey, here, I baked this for you.

So I went back through security and got on the plane and I'm drunk hungry so I'm just mindlessly eating this banana bread. Maybe she told me it was pot bread and I was too drunk to be paying attention? Or maybe she forgot? I dunno - but I ate like half the loaf.

So an hour into the flight, I'm like HOLY FUCK. And there I was, stuck on a plane for the next five hours, really pretty fucked up, I mean really quite genuinely fucked up.

I was sitting next to an elderly couple though, and they were taking turns reading like the Iliad or the Odyssey out loud to each other, which was sort of trippy and surprisingly soothing.
posted by Lutoslawski at 1:49 PM on June 4, 2014 [36 favorites]


At a recent brunch at our house, a guest brought some edibles and left them on the table. They were clearly labeled and individually packaged, but that didn't stop a friend who does not consume pot from grabbing a brownie and eating it on his way out the door. The whole brownie, of which I, considered to be a more-than-average consumer, would have had about a quarter of, was consumed by a non-user in one gulp.

His response the next day was, "I've been accused of staring at a computer screen all night, but I've never actually just sat and stared at a computer screen all night."

Dowd's reaction and my friend's reaction are very similar. First-time users who over-consume (and I have other stories) feel like their bodies and minds shut down. Words come to their brains, but they can't speak. They get stuck in cognitive loops for hours. They can't perform basic self-maintenance. Their autonomic functions feel simultaneously racy and weak. All of this is terrifying and if it sounds like a bad acid trip, that's because it's a great comparison.

Yeah, labeling could be better on edibles, especially for newbie users. However, I expect a Pulitzer winning journalist to do a little more homework. Lady, that was sloppy for an experimental college freshman, let alone an adult who was in high school during the Summer of Love.
posted by Revvy at 1:49 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


I wish Margaret Wente had written this column. She would have found a way to blame young people in liberal arts programs.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:50 PM on June 4, 2014 [11 favorites]


I was sitting next to an elderly couple though, and they were taking turns reading like the Iliad or the Odyssey out loud to each other, which was sort of trippy and surprisingly soothing.

lmao dude that was just Skymall
posted by theodolite at 1:53 PM on June 4, 2014 [70 favorites]


I did the rookie LSD thing before a transatlantic flight in highschool. Here meaning that 1) I took it on a plane; 2) I took a tab, got impatient, and took another tab.

Not a great flight.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 1:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


you weren't even on a plane.

We have no idea how you ended up across the ocean.
posted by The Whelk at 1:57 PM on June 4, 2014 [26 favorites]


You haven't even gotten on the plane yet. None of this is happening.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:58 PM on June 4, 2014 [30 favorites]


There isn't a big reason to assume she's lying. I have known even long-time stoners to completely flip the fuck out on rare occasion, if they take more than they are comfortable with...

There is also this really stupid view that edibles are a good pot 'introduction.' Like oh man, that pipe/bong is intimidating, but hey I can eat a lollipop or chocolate bar!

But that's like saying it's best to try drinking your first time with Tequila, because it's less liquid than a Budweiser... These edibles are very potent, and while if you are smoking you might know you've had enough due to the instant onset, with edibles you might way overdo it, but it's all in your stomach being digested over the next 3 hours.
posted by jjmoney at 1:59 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


This is forever now.

(embrace eternity)
posted by The Whelk at 1:59 PM on June 4, 2014 [12 favorites]


I wish that she had hallucinated Sasha Shulgin reaching out from the great beyond and smacking her for being so stupid.
posted by rtha at 2:00 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


Let's not pay attention to MoDo's latest dumb stunt, as the stupid sack of shit has had too much attention already for somebody who's basically the female Tom Friedman.


Instead, erm, a friend of mine (yeah, that's the ticket) had a sort of similar experience, when he first partook of some hash brownies. He took one and noticed nothing, was a bit peckish so had another two, then half an hour later the dope finally hit his bloodstream and he spent the rest of the night curled up on the couch making "brilliant" observations about eighties videoclips.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Dowd managed to graduate from college in the early seventies without learning about pot brownies? I haven't used any illegal substances since the mid-eighties but I still remember how careful you have to be with them and how that buzz sneaks up from behind you and hits you over the head.
posted by octothorpe at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


That photo of my Mom in a white leather miniskirt holding up a huge old' bong against the L.A skyline got me out of so many arguments in High School.

Oh yeah I love that one.
posted by Aizkolari at 2:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


Sorry, but if you are eating it, you just aren't getting high. And it's not like it tastes any good.

Buck up and smoke. If you can't smoke, don't smoke. It's not the end of the world.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:08 PM on June 4, 2014


clvrmnky: "Sorry, but if you are eating it, you just aren't getting high. And it's not like it tastes any good. "

Strongly disagree.
posted by Big_B at 2:11 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


Have some sympathy for Maureen Dowd; she may well be the only New York Times reporter who has no experience with marijuana.
posted by Nelson at 2:12 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


Also, if your reaction is that strong, don't eat it. If you don't know, maybe find someone who does.

Why would someone try to get high for the first time alone, in a hotel? Like, I bet you tried cigarettes and liquor with a friend the first time, right?

The fault here lies completely with the journo. They should have known better because adults know better.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:12 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Buck up and smoke. If you can't smoke, don't smoke. It's not the end of the world.

I'm a middle aged suburban dad. I don't have any choice in the matter - all my cool fiends got as lame as me and I don't know the magic UPS ritual that involves bitcoins or whatever.

SO I GUESS IT'S BEER FOR ME
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:14 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Folks who suggest that edibles be sold with lower dosages should understand several things:

1) High dosage edibles at medical dispensaries are often intended for consumption by cancer patients and other sick folks who may not be able to keep much food down. The less they have to eat, the better.

2) Most people think that pot edibles taste bad. Even those that are well made. I don't want to choke down a massive cookie or brownie if I don't have to.

3) I don't know much about the pot shops in Colorado, but no California dispensary would give a 16-dose edible to a newbie without some education.

4) Anything produced for sale at a dispensary is labeled with dosage information. If that's not the standard practice in Colorado, it should be.
posted by drklahn at 2:14 PM on June 4, 2014 [10 favorites]


Sorry, but if you are eating it, you just aren't getting high.

...Okay then what the fuck happened to me in the summer of 2008? Because I ate WAY too much brownie, and basically rolled around on the floor giggling and/or watching The Knack, And How to Get it (protip: TERRIBLE movie for being stoned), and/or staring up at the (ornately decorated) ceiling of the house I was in, for easily six hours.

If that wasn't being high, son, I don't want to know what is.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:14 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Hello, Coloradan here. There's been a lot of in-state talk and trade group talk about what to do about things like this. There have been incidents of kids getting sick, or their parents finding out that "hey, kids will eat unlabeled cookies, and not just 1/6.5ths of one".

Another Coloradan - and I work at a university. The getting really sick off of edibles because of inconsistent labelling has been a real issue here. Enough that the residence administration has been coming up with guidebooks and posters and so on, because, well, kids.

Dowd's idiocy aside, there does need to be better regulation and standardization of labelling. The edibles industry would be doing themselves a huge favor to get out in front of that.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 2:16 PM on June 4, 2014 [10 favorites]


Eh, this seems like a legitimate serious consumer rights issue to me; what's with all the "suckit n00b" comments? This is a really strong drug with potentially, psychologically traumatic effects, and it's being sold for profit in a way that makes it easy to massively overdose on, with no dosage information.
posted by dontjumplarry at 2:16 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


no California dispensary would give a 16-dose edible to a newbie without some education.

The California dispensary I go to would sell anything in the shop to anyone with a reccomendation without thinking twice.
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:22 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


At the risk of insulting him, based on the available evidence of him being a Cool Dude, I'm not sure they'd need to send Paul Krugman all the way to Denver. If you know what I mean. They may not even need to send him out of his living room.

Sorry, but I think you are being a little unfair there: I bet Mrs. Krugman makes him go out into the garage to keep from stinking the living room up.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 2:27 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


This is a really strong drug with potentially, psychologically traumatic effects, and it's being sold for profit in a way that makes it easy to massively overdose on, with no dosage information.

See also: Alcohol. Which can actually kill you if you take too much.
posted by rtha at 2:29 PM on June 4, 2014 [11 favorites]


I hope many of the early comments and their attendant tone be noted when there is another post about the evils of Ibuprofen, the Pharma industry or the the failure of the FDA. Cannabis can be fun and cannabis can be dangerous. it is a drug not a recreational toy. I can almost assure you that the way it is marketed and sold would never make it through most State and Federal consumer safety departments which regulate everything from teething rings,cribs and fire retardant clothing to power tools.
posted by rmhsinc at 2:29 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


Eh, this seems like a legitimate serious consumer rights issue to me; what's with all the "suckit n00b" comments? This is a really strong drug with potentially, psychologically traumatic effects, and it's being sold for profit in a way that makes it easy to massively overdose on, with no dosage information.

What she's done here is replicated my Tequila Experiment with a drug where the direct effects are safer. On the one hand -- yes, we need to be aware that there's not quite as much penetrance of cultural knowledge with respect to alcohol vs. marijuana, such that the notion that a bottle of tequila does not come with directions is not considered worthy of comment. However, it's also kind of an unavoidable fact of life that if you shovel psychoactive substances into your face arbitrarily, you may spend an evening staring at a brick wall and trying to remember if you are wearing pants. Which honestly sounds kind of fun to me, or at least more fun than being personally acquainted at length with the failures of my chosen toilet-cleaning technique. Which was not fun.
posted by sparktinker at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


"cannabis can be dangerous" - you can OD on Ibuprofen way easier than cannabis.

" State and Federal consumer safety departments which regulate everything " except firearms.
posted by bashos_frog at 2:33 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


drklahn: "1) High dosage edibles at medical dispensaries are often intended for consumption by cancer patients and other sick folks who may not be able to keep much food down. The less they have to eat, the better."

Yes, absolutely yes. And I don't want to give anybody the impression that cancer patients/ PTSD/ etc. should be denied options to manage their pain and symptoms.

That MMJ scenario aside, the recreational dispensaries should figure out how to be responsible sellers.



rtha: "See also: Alcohol. Which can actually kill you if you take too much."

Yes, and tylenol and a bunch of other stuff as well. Just because we're ding-dongs societally about alcohol doesn't mean we should insist on being ding-dongs about pot.
posted by boo_radley at 2:38 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]




It just occurred to me it would literally impossible to tell if Tom Friedman was stoned or not
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


I'm over 50 and have been a regular pot smoker since my mid 20's, and I'm definitely sensitive to smoking too much cannabis. Being too high can be extremely unpleasant, even if you otherwise like being high. All things in moderation, and you should treat anything that's new to your body with respect, etc. And of course, all drug consumption should take Set and Setting into account. Maureen Dowd was extremely naive and reckless to go about this the way that she did, and even a modicum of internet research (or a casual conversation with, uh, anyone else) would likely have given her a better way of approaching this.

Since MeFites love charts, someone in this thread should really link to The Universal 420 Highness Chart. Might as well be me, and y'all are welcome.
posted by plowhand at 2:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


No point mentioning those bats, Dowd thought. The poor bastard will see them soon enough.
posted by delfin at 2:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


If just feels like Ma'am Dowd is trolling us.

She & clvrmnky.

"Sorry, but if you are eating it, you just aren't getting high."

I wonder if you mean something other than high? If you eat it, you just aren't getting smoke in your lungs, maybe?

Anyway, the article is really more embarrassing for lady D than the pot industry in CO or the larger legalization context.

Yes, I think there should be clear labels on pretty much everything, but why are we picking on pot? Where's the chemical spec sheet for everything in a Marlboro Red? Label it all. At the same time, do we freak out because the plastic-wrapped, home baked cookies at a coffee shop aren't labeled? If you don't know, ask. You're buying a *drug*. Sure, labeling would be good & ideal, but why does the assumption have to be that we're all imbeciles first.

I get that it's an issue with kids, but like sex ed., you teach adolescents about birth control & protection you start solving the problem. Legal weed is a conundrum because previous education for teenagers was "it's always bad, it'll kill you, it's illegal, just say no;" now the message has to be adjusted to deal with reality. Why is this surprising to a journalist of all people?

And good grief- marijuana is a schedule 1 drug with known psychoactive properties. Who in their right minds acquires such a drug in a strange place, locks him/herself in a room alone, & consumes an unknown quantity of that drug without asking for any sort of advice or precaution before-hand?

This isn't a problem with marijuana being legal or a cottage industry finding its footing. This is a problem with someone who should know better making insanely risky choices because if it can be bought in a store, it must be safe. And then whining about it.

Anecdotal aside: on every occasion that I've been offered/purchased/acquired an edible, the person hosting the transaction has been extremely eager to advise & caution me. I realize that this is a sample size of 1, but given the under-the-table nature the drug, I take it to be a sort of "solid" that we all pay forward to each other so that the only risk one takes is disobeying a law. I imagine that same fraternity & concern would continue as the business is legitimized; repeat customers would likely reward the clerk who offers helpful advice future traffic. I honestly wonder how M.D. managed to score a snack without being given any sort of warning. Again, my troll-senses be tingling.
posted by narwhal at 2:47 PM on June 4, 2014


I don't understand how she hadn't tried it before. It's not like marijuana is an obscure drug. She dated Aaron Sorkin, for Pete's sake. What did they do on a Saturday night, drink cocoa?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:54 PM on June 4, 2014 [11 favorites]


The California dispensary I go to would sell anything in the shop to anyone with a reccomendation without thinking twice.

I should have been more careful about making such sweeping generalizations. I've been to a bunch of dispensaries in the bay area, but not many outside of the bay area. The bay area dispensaries have always impressed me as clean, tidy, professionally-managed businesses. The budtenders are knowledgeable, friendly, and very approachable. Even after purchasing edibles many times and getting to know the staff, I was always warned about the potency of anything I purchased. That's just my personal experience, though, and I'm sure there are shady places selling sketchy drugs, probably even in the bay area. I just don't know how those places can compete with the types of places I patronized.

It's a shame that she had a bad experience with an edible, particularly for her first time. I think a lot of folks who have never tried pot are attracted to edibles because they don't like the idea of smoking. I can understand that, but it's not the right decision. Edibles are not great for first-timers. The experience is substantially different from inhaled marijuana, and (as is the point of the article), it's difficult to titrate dosage properly, even for experienced folks. Just like many other drugs, the potency can vary depending on how much food is in your stomach, how tired you might be, etc. The time between consumption and peak effect can be 2 - 3 hours, so many first timers fall into the trap of overdosing.

The thing that bothers me about this article is how little research she did before trying an unknown substance. It's not hard to find stories exactly like her own. I certainly wouldn't try a drug without knowing more about it than she did. Perhaps that's one of the important take-aways-- now that pot is legal in some states, people may be inclined to the incorrect belief that it isn't a drug and is completely harmless. it's certainly less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes, but that doesn't mean you can't have a bad experience.

I would hope to hear fewer stories like this as regulation and standards come into play.
posted by drklahn at 2:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


The thing is, Shulgin didn't even like weed. He had a couple of "took too much" stories himself.
posted by telstar at 2:56 PM on June 4, 2014


"Man, I drank, like, twelve beers last night, and I don't know how many shots of tequila. What was I thinking? I totally went Dowd, man."

She went Dowd of control.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:57 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


a ... pot butler.... bong sommelier...

Weed steward? Maître dank?

I have a friend who smoked way too much weed one time a bunch of years ago; it wasn't his first time ever trying pot, but he didn't have more than a couple of minor quick-toke experiences at beery hangouts previously. He was and remains more of a beer and brown liquor guy. But at the time, a buddy of his had been getting into smoking up lately, and he was curious to try a little bit more seriously.

And so they got together in their rented band practice space, just him and his buddy and his buddy's new bong and his buddy's purportedly very good weed and their guitars, and they set to it. My friend took a pretty big, self-assured rip off his buddy's bong, and they hung out for a couple minutes out of an abundance of caution before he figured out nothing was happening and took a bigger, even more self-assured rip. Another couple minutes went by, and nothing.

And then a couple more minutes went by and he said to his buddy that he felt like he was blinking a lot and his buddy was laughing like a loon and was all, man, seriously, you have not spent any part of the last minute not blinking, you're just like constantly blinking, it's super weird.

And ten minutes later or so he said he really was not feeling good, and his buddy asked if he wanted to go get some food, and he said yes and then he tried to stand up and he stopped trying to stand up and he said, no, let's just stay here, staying here seems like probably the correct move.

And then they spent the next three hours sitting in the practice space, because my friend couldn't fucking stand up at all and had to resort to propping himself up against the wall and playing guitar shittily with his eyes closed because at least it was a little bit of a distraction and he was tired of blinking and jesus christ, this was a bad idea, what the hell, how had it come so blatantly to a parody of stupid drug stories he had heard.

My friend still has the recordings he and his buddy made of their shitty stoned guitar playing somewhere.
posted by cortex at 2:57 PM on June 4, 2014 [11 favorites]


your friend should post them to mefi music prolly
posted by elizardbits at 3:00 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


Water bong's so smooth you don't realize how high you're getting.
posted by Flashman at 3:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


" and that band my friends ...became the Allman Brothers."
posted by The Whelk at 3:03 PM on June 4, 2014 [12 favorites]


( also I enjoy the paranoid thought process that OH NO PEOPLE MIGHT THINK IM UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS IN THIS PLACE SET ASIDE FOR DOING DRUGS WITH ALL THESE PEOPLE. It's adorable, really.)
posted by The Whelk at 3:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


I hope the next article is "Maureen Dowd does the Cinnamon Challenge".
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [24 favorites]


This kind of thing is reminding me of all the bad trips people told me they had on pot edibles, and why I learned to never try pot edibles. (Especially since I am boringly straight anyway and don't even plan on trying pot unless I get a disease or something.)

Seriously: how the heck would Maureen Dowd know how to eat pot cookies? What pot-friendly friends do you think the woman has to ask her to babysit her and educate her? I'm not at all surprised that as far as she knew, eating cookies in a hotel room alone was the safest way to handle it.

I also can't help but think of the Portlandia "Late In Life Drug Use" episode.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:07 PM on June 4, 2014


Frankly that's a bad product. People don't typically split cookies. Cookies are understood to be single-serving by most people, even those big Starbucks cookies.

My ex-wife smoked a lot of pot. Eventually she got into making edibles. She did some research, figured out how to extract the maximum possible amount of THC into butter, then made brownies with that butter. She loved it; she'd eat one or two of these and get exactly as high as she wanted to be. Three, maybe, if she wanted to get really stoned. She shared them with friends who also liked to smoke pot. They'd sit around chatting and having a good time.

Me? Well, I smoke pot every now and then, but it's not really my thing, like it was hers. I ate a quarter of a brownie once and had an experience much like the author's: it was utterly overwhelming, not at all pleasant, lasted for hours, and I basically didn't feel like myself again until the next day. I didn't really touch my ex's edibles again after that, but I joked that I might eat a brownie pill, if she were to cut them up that small.

I guess my point is that a cookie like that might be a great product for someone who regularly smokes a lot of pot and really likes the feeling of being stoned, and they might well eat the whole thing and get exactly what they want; but it might be a disaster in the hands of someone who doesn't smoke much or who is totally new to marijuana.

There's also a thing where there's this ranking of ingestion methods by their perceived level of hard-core-ness: eating is "safer" than smoking is "safer" than snorting is "safer" than injection, and there are people who will eat or smoke drugs but refuse to snort them, or whatever. So I can see how someone totally new to marijuana might assume that eating it is the way to start, since surely that's a less intense high than smoking it... when of course it's entirely the opposite.
posted by Mars Saxman at 3:07 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


With liquor, people understand what they’re getting themselves into.

I can't find it just now (and it's kind of embarrassing for the OP, so i don't particularly want to), but I recall that not too long ago, there was an askme where someone was like "I threw up after drinking a single glass of alcohol! What am i doing wrong?"

and after some back-and-forth it became clear that dude drank, like, a pint of vodka

and everyone was like NOOOOO LITTLE GUY
posted by Greg Nog at 3:09 PM on June 4, 2014 [56 favorites]


"I threw up after drinking a single glass of alcohol! What am i doing wrong?"

You're supposed to steep the alcohol with THC.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 3:15 PM on June 4, 2014


I can never tell if I'm getting the THC buzz from those things or the fact that I'm sipping 100% proof rum.
posted by The Whelk at 3:22 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


That's why you sprinkle it with Black Beauty sweetener. To give you time to figure that shit out.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 3:24 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


i am not your chemist
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 3:28 PM on June 4, 2014


The best pot story on metafilter, or anywhere THE DAY OF THE PANCAKES

Oh yes, it's like a hilarious horror story. With pot pancakes. If you haven't read it, you must.
posted by emjaybee at 3:29 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


She dated Aaron Sorkin, for Pete's sake. What did they do on a Saturday night, drink cocoa?

Probably just snorted it.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:32 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


I'm another one who had a mind-blowingly bad reaction to one-eighth of a brownie my friend made. It was a miserable day, followed by a shitty night while I waited for it to wear off.


It was bad enough that I do not have any desire to smoke pot again - mostly due to how many hours it took for me to return to baseline normal. The shit is just too strong and unpredictable ... and I used to enjoy getting high.
posted by kanewai at 3:32 PM on June 4, 2014


I don't understand how she hadn't tried it before.

There's nothing in the column that suggests that. She says she's "not a regular marijuana smoker" but she thought she should "try a taste of legal, edible pot from a local shop." I'm sure she has smoked pot in her lifetime.

It's a really dopey piece, and Dowd is awful. But y'all aren't reading very well.
posted by neroli at 3:34 PM on June 4, 2014


2) Most people think that pot edibles taste bad. Even those that are well made. I don't want to choke down a massive cookie or brownie if I don't have to.

Uh, also very much not my experience. I have had a couple of edibles, uh, "incidents" in recent years because I'm not a regular anymore. One time my buddy came to visit from out of town. I was way out of practice, but he was at the time a multiple joints daily smoker. I made brownies, 4 of them. We both ate one about an hour before dinner, and felt nothing. 3 hours later, still nothing. So we ate another, each. Wound up on floor, unable to get up for hours. They were delicious and it was done with a brownie mix and loose bud. When you go through the effort of making proper butter, it's even less detectable. All the cookies I've had tasted like cookies, too, with just a trace of the smell and flavor of pot.
posted by Hoopo at 3:34 PM on June 4, 2014


Wait, the "6.5 serving cookie" thing is real?

You're supposed to cut this cookie into 13 equal pieces, and eat two of them? And presumably give ten of the remaining pieces to five friends? Then you've got a leftover half a serving?
posted by Flunkie at 3:35 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Maureen Dowd was extremely naive and reckless to go about this the way that she did ...

It's a perfectly normal assumption to think that one candy bar or cookie equals one serving.

The rhetoric has moved from "pot is totally safe and harmless" to "if you have a bad experience it's your own fault"
posted by kanewai at 3:37 PM on June 4, 2014


READ THE PANCAKE THREAD. I remember it from my years as a lurker.

This thread is awesome, but it would be better with a big piece of a sativa lemon cookie, or a piece of a 50/50 indica/satica chocolate bar. I will never forgive our government for shutting down our local compassion club...

FWIW, I, too, have had the experience of eating half of a potent cookie and then hallucinating for hours (mostly closed eye visuals shaped by my surroundings). Very odd. But I sure as hell didn't turn against the evil reefer because of that one experience.
posted by quiet earth at 3:38 PM on June 4, 2014


kanewai: "Maureen Dowd was extremely naive and reckless to go about this the way that she did ...

It's a perfectly normal assumption to think that one candy bar or cookie equals one serving.

The rhetoric has moved from "pot is totally safe and harmless" to "if you have a bad experience it's your own fault"
"

Except that she's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for the most prestigious paper in the country. You'd think that she might do a little research beforehand?
posted by octothorpe at 3:42 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


I was just going to ask, who the heck is Maureen Dowd? In the sense of asking for personal impressions beyond what I can find on Wikipedia. I feel kind of bad about laughing at a stranger, but knowing that she's not a nice person would go a long way toward resolving my cognitive dissonance. I'm familiar with the NYT, of course, but she hasn't struck me as particularly memorable person up till this point.
posted by quiet earth at 3:50 PM on June 4, 2014


And that sort of comes with reading the label. It's pretty common for production (not hey my neighbor made some brownies) edibles to NOT be one serving. Every one *my friend* has shown me was clearly labeled with suggested servings and in most cases actual content.
posted by Big_B at 3:51 PM on June 4, 2014


I'm pretty sure people are pointing and laughing at MoDo because her experience was the result of a long-running and wide-spread policy of ignorance coming home to roost. Actually, America's policy is more like lies and hypocrisy — admitting and advocating ignorance would look good in comparison to what we've actually had.

So let's get the education out there; help people better understand the drugs we use. (I've only smoked and would take advantage of legal pot, but I never learned about the different onset profile for baked goods. Glad I read about it here.) But what has Dowd learned from her experience? Seems like she's doubling down on Reefer Madness. She deserves all the shit she's going to get.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:51 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


> y'all aren't reading very well

It's because we're all high as kites.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:52 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


"Uh. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that. I mean, you wouldn't eat a third of a pan of plain brownies."

I think after a certain point it doesn't make any difference, right? Back in university there were some nights where keeping on smoking didn't really increase the high.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:57 PM on June 4, 2014


This column was mostly horrible (as is to be expected from MoDo), but the underlying point is not without merit.

Here in Seattle we have the Winterlife Co-op (google it, I'm at work). It has a fresh sheet of new product every day. They sell mostly weed, but they have a large selection of edibles and oils and whatnot. For $10, you can get a 75mg activated thc pill. They even come in a two pack for $15! They sell a 200mg thc chocolate bar for $25.

Edibles are simply far too powerful and far too cheap to be reasonable retail items. It'd be like if they sold a bottle of peach schnaps that was 180 proof, tasted like almost nothing, and cost $1.
posted by lattiboy at 4:07 PM on June 4, 2014 [9 favorites]


Baked goods go stale, fast, and it just seems ill-conceived to put it in the form of something that people are accustomed to chowing down on by themselves when that's not what you want them to do with it.

Brownies and cookies keep just fine in the fridge or even room temp in a covered container for a few days, unlike, say, muffins or bear claws. Cake is also baked and lasts for days in a cake dish, which I believe are meant to be kept at room temp.

I don't think the Starbucks or Mrs. Fields cookies are really considered single-serving, are they? Maybe this is just an example of American portions being ridiculously large.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 4:07 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


My, um, friend, definitely ate the leftover butter from brownies once. They were definitely an 11 on that chart - full open eye visual hallucinations, we were at a drum circle in the middle of the woods and there were people in the flames dancing around the fire. It started raining, and the rain drummed in patterns along with the drums. It was COOL, and definitely the most fucked up they have ever been.

Highly recommended.
posted by zug at 4:22 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


I've done the "nothing's happening, let's try more" after 1/2 hour with brownies.

Yeah, I did this my first time ever, ate four more, woke up still high out of my skull, and swanned off to do a ten minute class presentation followed by a job interview at a cafe, both before noon.
posted by showbiz_liz at 4:23 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


The New York Times is desperately trying to chase paying younger readers, so it's hilarious that most of their opinion writers are old farts screaming about the kids on the lawn.

Way to keep up with the times, Times.
posted by spitbull at 4:24 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


"Huh, I'm not really sure anything is happening here." I shrugged. And then I started laughing."

Last month I smoked a joint with my Dad. It was his very first time. He's 71 years old.

So we're out huddling in the inside of the shed because it was windy and he did pretty good with the smoking part. He kept saying "Okay so what's going to happen. I'm not feeling anything. What am I supposed to feel...|". He finally said, "I don't really feel anything lets go back inside." So we start walking back to the house and he kept stopping and darting side to side to pick things up while talking about how he really needed to clean and oh wait I should get that over there.

I tell him to just sit down and watch tv or youtube videos or something. Just take it easy and don't try to do anything. He says he's fine and he really doesn't feel anything but okay I'll watch a movie on my computer. I say cool Dad but don't go on Facebook or something like that and start writing stuff. He seems to thing that's really funny so I know he's got something going on.

I go upstairs and while later decide I should go and check on him. He's still at the computer and proceeds to tell me that he's been looking at model submarines and has been trying really hard to find this one type because he's wanted one for years and years and that I didn't find the one I wanted but found another one and bought it. I start laughing because he doesn't usually just buy things he find quickly. He has to think about spending money, especially on his models for a long time. "Dad you're so stoned!"

He insists he wasn't and didn't feel anything. I leave him for a bit again and when I come back he found the type he originally was looking for and bought that too and can't stop talking about it. He talks for a bit and then says he's tired. I sent him to the couch. Ten minutes later he's sound asleep. He slept for a solid 3 hours.

Yep. Sure thing Dad, nothing happened. lol
posted by Jalliah at 4:26 PM on June 4, 2014 [17 favorites]


He was totally torpedoed.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 4:36 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


Once upon a time, I made a burrito of peanut butter and what I assumed was a reasonable amount of sweet leaf properly prepared. I was well experienced and consuming regularly at that point, so I assumed there would be no issues. I had a half of what I thought was a reasonable dose. After an hour, I had a little nibble more. I swear it was a nibble. I thought I hadn't had enough, in fact.

Boy, was I wrong.

Within two hours I was in complete panic mode. In New York City, in Brooklyn, I was pacing up and down the street with my mind and heart racing. It was DefCon One. Even as an experienced user, my brain and my heart were giving me such weird sensations I really thought a heart attack or stroke was imminent.

I also felt like I had to shit my pants. Not ideal.

There was a good 45 minutes where I was pacing up and down the street. Occasionally I would find the resolve to pull the trigger. The sensation was horrendous, as everything had been heightened by the adrenaline and the THC.

Fortunately, I had good friends with me. Someone was with me at all times. They were extremely understanding and kept me as calm as possible, given the situation. It was enough to get me to the next bar. However, even though I made myself throw up as much as I could on the street like a derelict, enough had been digested that the ride wasn't over.

We sat down at a table at the next bar. For a few minutes at a time, I'd find the ability to regulate my thoughts and my breathing into a comfortable enough existence to sit in silence. But the panic came in waves, and when the next wave hit, I'd feel my heart start to pound, my chest seemingly tighten and my breathing more ragged. In retrospect, it was like Papillion, how the waves would build to the ideal 7th wave. However, each next wave was the 7th wave. I was riding out to sea each time it hit.

When this happened, I'd ritualistically get up from the table in somewhat dramatic fashion. The feeling of imminent death would return. I'd go to the bathroom to throw water on my face, or go outside for some fresh air. After 5-7 minutes, my body would seemingly adjust to this wave. I'm going to make it, I would think. I'd sit back down. For 10-15 minutes I would be in a quiet place. Then I'd feel the next wave come. Rinse, wash, repeat.

This happened for another two hours. At some point I ordered a Guinness and finished it quickly. I ordered another one. The waves were still coming. After the second one, I ordered a third. I started working my way through that third pint.

And then something strange happened. I reached some crossroads of drunk and stoned. The drunk me started overtaking the stoned me. The panic attacks noticeably subsided, then disappeared. I snapped out of it. I was back in gear.

By that point, it was late. Everyone was tired from dealing with me, and we went home. The panic was gone, but I was monstrously hungry with little impulse control so I ate two street burritos from a food truck on the way to the PATH. I went to bed and slept hard, the panic gone.

I felt extremely fuzzy and not hungry the next day. I had no appetite until 6:00 pm and it was hard collecting my thoughts most of the day. The panic was gone, but some weird curtain was throwing shade all over my thoughts. There was a large degree of shame as well, as I knew it wasn't a fun evening for anyone around me.

Whenever I hear someone say that pot isn't harmful, or there are no side effects, or that you just need to consume it responsibly, I really question that logic. There was something harmful going on. I did take what I felt was a reasonable amount. But that's exactly the issue - unless you start exceedingly small, it is very easy to overindulge without knowing the impact it's going to have.* When I have a beer, I know how I'll be at the end of that beer. With edibles, it's too hard to judge. When those go wrong, they go wrong to a big degree.

*Note: This applies more to edibles than anything else. I think with smoking, the effect goes away fast enough that it's easier to control. One can still probably overindulge, but usually lungs and munchies give way before you can get too down the rabbit hole. With edibles, you're locked in and that rocket is taking off.
posted by glaucon at 4:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


I can't get past the peanut butter burrito.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 4:45 PM on June 4, 2014 [6 favorites]


SOME people were very inexperienced and chain smoked five joints at Another World coffeehouse in Amsterdam and has no memory of the following 12 hours except for an argument with a bike.

I have a friend who visited Amsterdam for the first time in her early twenties and had no knowledge of dosage. Ate some edibles, was stoned for 24 hours, but definitely remembers pissing herself in a restaurant and laughing the whole time.

A college acquaintance went back home for the weekend and made a pan of brownies to bring to a party with some high school friends. Now this was 70s weed, not the turbo stuff they make these days. He left to do something and had the brownies cooling. Came home to discover his dad had eaten the first row of brownies. Dad was in his recliner, watching Police Woman with Angie Dickinson and laughing his ass off. The baker took the pan of brownies and fled.
posted by Ber at 4:47 PM on June 4, 2014 [7 favorites]


I can't get past the peanut butter burrito

The plan was to have those nibbles and save the rest for future use.

It was thrown out the next day. Some rat had a terrible time.
posted by glaucon at 4:52 PM on June 4, 2014


Now this was 70s weed, not the turbo stuff they make these days

Some friends of mine made a tray of brownies out of about 10g of the worst weed available around here--it was seedy, compressed junk that smelled like dryer sheets--and nobody had a good time. They were sneaky-strong in all the wrong ways. Two people lost their words for hours, everybody else was just couchlocked and confused.

Edibles are a really bad way to consume cannabis unless you either don't care how high you get, or you know exactly how much THC is in them.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:54 PM on June 4, 2014


Whenever I hear someone say that pot isn't harmful, or there are no side effects, or that you just need to consume it responsibly, I really question that logic. There was something harmful going on.

Part of this is, I'm sure, that folks who are comfortable with and accustomed to a thing are going to be inclined to defend it and to be dismissive of criticism. There's a kind of tendency toward insiderness to any scene where perspective and defensiveness can be an issue when interfacing with outsiders and neophytes and all that.

But a big part of it is that basically every bad weed experience story comes in the form of "oh man, this one time I had this bad weed experience and it really ruined my night." They're first-person accounts of a spoiled evening, an uncomfortable several hours. Not eulogies. Not stories about profound self-harm. Not liver failure, not respiratory failure or cardiac arrest. There's a huge disjuncture between marijuana moral panic and the actual observed effects of weed on both habitual users and people smoking/eating way too much by accident that makes it muddy to complain about people arguing a lack of harm.

Because compared to a whole lot of popular recreational drugs, very much including the legal standbys of alcohol and cigarettes, the harm is pretty hard to make a case for. "There's no harm" is in pedantic terms an arguable overstatement but in practice it's a response to a cascade of nutty bullshit claims from people more interested in arguing against drugs than in practically assessing how marijuana effects people in both typical and worst-case scenarios.
posted by cortex at 4:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [31 favorites]


I have never understood why the FDA isn't all over the edible marijuana industry in the same way the DEA attacks medical marijuana.

Allowing marijuana to be put into every conceivable commercially available food product was a dangerously bad idea. If edibles are to be sold, at all, they should be reserved for medical use, and be held to some potency/quality standards.

Let people who want to eat their marijuana bake their own damn brownies.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 4:58 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


This is a really strong drug with potentially, psychologically traumatic effects, and it's being sold for profit in a way that makes it easy to massively overdose on, with no dosage information.

See also: Alcohol. Which can actually kill you if you take too much.


What boo_radley said. This is a tu quoque fallacy. It's like arguing that cruelty to animals is OK because animals suffer worse things in the wild. Just because one shitty thing exists, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fix a different, less shitty thing. In this case, through the fairly low-cost solution of enforcing clearer labelling/warning/dosage information.
posted by dontjumplarry at 5:01 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


It was thrown out the next day. Some rat had a terrible time.

Despite my malaise, I'm still just a rat in my chaise.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 5:02 PM on June 4, 2014 [19 favorites]


I also note with resentment that my former landlord STOLE an entire FIVE of my cookies (three triple chocolate and two lemon poppyseed, IIRC), which was most of my stash. He never admitted to the theft, but a month later I was suddenly thrown out of his house.

He was at least a casual pot smoker, so I can only imagine the circumstances involving the theft of five (packaged, clearly labelled) cannabis cookies that would make someone angry enough to evict a lawful tenant. I had a permit at the time to use medical marijuana, a permit that has become void under our new legislature.

His official response to any missing items from my drawer, by the way, was that he was worried my foster dog would somehow rear up on her hind legs, claw open my heavy wooden dresser drawer, and devour anything inside. So my landlord ate my cookies for great justice.

I hope his trips were full of nightmares.
posted by quiet earth at 5:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


bruce: "AWW, POOR BABY!

(can she do shrooms next?)
"

Today, Maureen on acid realized that all matter is really energy condensed... Here's Maureen with an editorial.
posted by symbioid at 5:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


But a big part of it is that basically every bad weed experience story comes in the form of "oh man, this one time I had this bad weed experience and it really ruined my night." They're first-person accounts of a spoiled evening, an uncomfortable several hours. Not eulogies. Not stories about profound self-harm. Not liver failure, not respiratory failure or cardiac arrest. There's a huge disjuncture between marijuana moral panic and the actual observed effects of weed on both habitual users and people smoking/eating way too much by accident that makes it muddy to complain about people arguing a lack of harm.

You're exactly right here. And my experience is no different.

I believe my experience was likely only psychologically traumatic (and it was - I had residual panic attacks for the next several weeks, worse than ever before).

And I believe firmly that marijuana is far less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. Not to mention a host of other pharmaceuticals that are legal and above schedule 1 status.

Which is why I really advocate testing of the health effects of marijuana. I believe it's less harmful than those other things, but let's find out where it could be harmful. After all, two to four cups of coffee are pretty harmless, but at least we know the effects of consuming too much caffeine.

You make a great point. I like the cut of your jib.
posted by glaucon at 5:08 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I did this my first time ever, ate four more, woke up still high out of my skull, and swanned off to do a ten minute class presentation followed by a job interview at a cafe, both before noon.

Favorited for bad-ass
posted by The Whelk at 5:25 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


( whelk how did you do that huge presentation and interview in front of your peers? I was high as a ki te and pretending I was Tony Stark)
posted by The Whelk at 5:27 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


It cannot be said enough that of she had been a first time drinker and done 16 shots in an hour in a hotel room by herself she'd be dead.
posted by humanfont at 5:28 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


littlejohnnyjewel: "Allowing marijuana to be put into every conceivable commercially available food product was a dangerously bad idea. If edibles are to be sold, at all, they should be reserved for medical use, and be held to some potency/quality standards.

Let people who want to eat their marijuana bake their own damn brownies.
"

This is the exact opposite of what some of us are saying. Every time I've bought edibles in dispensary they are labeled with servings and amount of pot, usually in weight or by THC %. This is a measurable thing. This is good. You should be able, with only the slightest bit of educating, understand how much is going to be too much for you.

What you are arguing is akin to taking off the liquor off the shelves, with its proof information, and telling everyone to just make their own moonshine.
posted by Big_B at 5:30 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Heh, pot brownies -- newb, I give you Alice B Toklas hashish fudge.

My experiences was that edibles were very intense, closer to hallucinogenic highs than highs from smoking. I would be sympathetic to some degree if it weren't for 1) she is a reporter and should have researched in advance and 2) my joy in dowd-infused schadenfreude.

I have been so enjoying comments about this both here and elsewhere. A few of my faves:

On twitter, @DanAmira: "If you think about it, we're ALL strapped to the roof of Mitt Romney's car, in a way." -- high Gail Collins

On TPM:
Weather​Servo​9: In my pot-induced fever dream, she's been out of a job for years.

wiscojoe: Wait, are you telling me that MoDo exaggerated a personal experience and then tried to spin it into some sort of universal truth, all in an attempt to fill column space without doing any real work or putting in any actual thought?
That could never happen!

sergeant​2: Hunter S. Thompson she ain't.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:38 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Never go full Dowd!
posted by Reversible Diamond-Encrusted Ermine Codpiece at 5:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


sergeant​2: Hunter S. Thompson she ain't.

Hell, she ain't even Senator Fred Thompson.
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 5:43 PM on June 4, 2014 [8 favorites]


What boo_radley said. This is a tu quoque fallacy.

Apologies for making my shorthand too short.

How's this, then: So what? So what if marijuana [product] doesn't come with dosage labeling on it? This is flung like a criticism but people who make it never establish that it needs one, and why, and what other similar substances do or don't have that labeling, and why. So okay, your bag of legal weed or your lollipop or your cookie may not ("may" because it actually varies! Some are labeled!) have labeling indicating how much to consume. So what?

And if we're gonna go all Latin here, then: caveat emptor.
posted by rtha at 5:44 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


"What you are arguing is akin to taking off the liquor off the shelves, with its proof information, and telling everyone to just make their own moonshine."


What I propose, is that commercial sale of edibles be restricted to medical dispensaries, in order that stricter rules for their labeling, potency and access can be assured.

As opposed to just putting marijuana into candy, baked goods, soda, beef jerky, trail mix, etc., and making it available for recreational use.

What I propose would be more like getting a prescription, in order to buy Everclear, while regular liquor, beer and wine would be available without prescription.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 5:46 PM on June 4, 2014


None of this is real. Its clickbait.
posted by sfts2 at 5:48 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


Have you ever really looked at your clickbait, though?
posted by Your friend sounds kind of lame. at 5:50 PM on June 4, 2014 [17 favorites]


Since MeFites love charts, someone in this thread should really link to The Universal 420 Highness Chart. Might as well be me, and y'all are welcome.

I made a version of this wherein I corrected all the spelling and grammar errors. (Yes, I was probably high at the time...)
posted by mykescipark at 5:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


> ate one about an hour before dinner

Two stories so far about edibles on a full stomach or edibles before dinner causing effects to be lessened or come on slower (leading to over-consumption). Shouldn't be a surprise-- food also affects alcohol absorption. I can attest to edibles on an empty stomach coming on a little faster, too.
posted by morganw at 6:02 PM on June 4, 2014


Dosage and potency are going to become big issues as marijuana becomes more legal. As pointed out above most dispensary products are aimed at folks with high tolerances and/or high needs. This goes beyond edibles: most bud is bred for high potency and pre-rolls come in potent, very potent, and crazy potent.

I usually roll spliffs these days with a variety of non-psychoactive herbs as filler. I can enjoy a whole joint and get the right amount of high. These are real winners at parties, too: nobody gets accidentally too stoned. Of course my stoner friends think it's bullshit but ... that's why god invented bongs.

I'm a huge proponent of Right Drug, Right Dose. A little high is awesome but the system isn't set up for that.

I'm looking forward to a time when you can pop down to your local dispensary for a pack of 20 joints, rolled either with some nice hippie filler or with cannabis that's bred for low potency. Pop outside for a smoke that delivers roughly the same effect as a pint then head back in to the bar for more socializin.
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:03 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


> Universal 420 Highness Chart

CEV = Closed-eye hallucinations or Closed-eye visualizations
Level 1: Visual noise
Level 2: Light/dark flashes
Level 3: Patterns, motion, and color
Level 4: Objects and things
Level 5: Overriding physical perception
posted by morganw at 6:05 PM on June 4, 2014


> cannabis that's bred for low potency

I've heard calls for this for years, but still, nothing. CBD-rich strains can ease chronic-pain without being so mind warping.

> non-psychoactive herbs as filler

go on...
[something kind-ish to the lungs, I hope?]
posted by morganw at 6:08 PM on June 4, 2014


rtha: "What boo_radley said. This is a tu quoque fallacy.

Apologies for making my shorthand too short.

How's this, then: So what? So what if marijuana [product] doesn't come with dosage labeling on it? This is flung like a criticism but people who make it never establish that it needs one, and why, and what other similar substances do or don't have that labeling, and why. So okay, your bag of legal weed or your lollipop or your cookie may not ("may" because it actually varies! Some are labeled!) have labeling indicating how much to consume. So what?

And if we're gonna go all Latin here, then: caveat emptor.
"

I think part of the problem is that dosages of our other primary recreational intoxicant are widely communicated. Beer is typically served in single dose containers, wine and liquor are typically served in single dose servings in restaurants and bars. Heck, in school we were taught that 1 beer = 1 glass of wine = 1 shot of liquor. And there's plenty of anti-drunk driving info out there as well that communicates this information. That level of awareness just isn't out there for MJ. I've regularly partaken for a good many years and had no idea the different experience with ingestibles as I've always smoked/vaped, and there was a bit of a learning curve going from the former to the latter.

MoDo is an idiot, and caveat emptor is always good advice. At the same time I think it's in our best interest as users of the product that the n00bs have a good time to reduce the potential for backlash, and also for the sellers to encourage repeat business.
posted by calamari kid at 6:08 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


Oh yeah, and edibles really should be understood as an advanced activity. Even knowing the mg of THC isn't enough - everyone metabolizes the drug differently and it depends a lot on what else is in your system.

I'll eat something and not feel anything for a couple hours. Then I'll eat a meal and the whole thing will hit at once.

Knowing now how sensitive I am — and knowing my right dose — I don't think I'd eat cookies or brownies a friend made anymore. Too much risk for something to go wrong.
posted by wemayfreeze at 6:09 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


> How's this, then: So what? So what if marijuana [product] doesn't come with dosage labeling on it?

This problem can be significant for patients who don’t want to be stoned while working or behind the wheel. It’s even more so for pediatric patients. “You don’t want a 6-year-old with epilepsy being put on a bus under the influence of a psychedelic chemical,” [Jessica] Tonani said.

Think of the children!

That's an article about medical marijuana, not recreational. It still would bug me not to know just what I was getting -- but I'm not the target market, as I don't consume pot (despite having gone to Evergreen).
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:14 PM on June 4, 2014


A similar but more entertaining Gavin McInnes article about the perils of modern pot. With pot being legalized these stoner diary articles seem to be becoming a thing.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 6:21 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


This is the story of my parents' wedding:

My father was a big ole stoner. My mother was the daughter of the warden? of the New Orleans jail.

Some unnamed friends of my father decided to bake him a pan of brownies as a wedding present.

My mother did not know this.

They found her giggling in the corner, having eaten half the pan.

After the reception, they had to pack for the honeymoon in San Antonio, for which they left the next day.

San Antonio was quite chilly that December.

My mother did not pack well.

They look very cold in all the pictures from the honeymoon.

(I'm not telling my weed stories.)
posted by PMdixon at 6:22 PM on June 4, 2014 [1 favorite]


When it comes to pot, isn't the assumed "size of dosage,"based on the the "take one [hit, bite, whatever], and pass" rule? That's why I've always thought that if you're having an edible, you take off a pinch of it (one bite's worth) and share it round or save the rest for later, you don't just chow down like it's Superbowl Sunday!

But then, I always think of getting high as a communal thing, like chewing ghat or drinking or...eating meals or just about anything, really? I'd always figured that you can do it alone and all, but the "basic" way of doing it is communal. Like how you can cook for one, but most recipes aren't written to make just one serving.
posted by rue72 at 6:25 PM on June 4, 2014


My brother brought some CA brownies in back when the Twins still played in the 'Dome. His buddy, a guy I've known for a while had half a CA med brownie and had a full blown "I'm way too high" panic attack in the Metrodome.

I just remember thinking how comfortable the seats were. In the Metrodome.

Please don't screw around with edibles. When you're smoking, you can feel too high and stop. "Oh wait, I'm pretty high, I should lay off." You simply cannot do that with edibles, once it passes the gums all bets are off. You're committed to an unknown amount of THC hitting your brain. Well, unknown if you cooked it. Maybe a bit more known if you buy it in Denver.

As an aside: A childhood friend of mine contracted horrible Fibromyalgia and can't smoke, edibles have been a godsend to her. I talked to her five years ago, and she was totally bed/couch-ridden, had to be helped with a wheelchair to get around. I just got a pic of her standing at her son's graduation last week. I seriously can't believe it.
posted by Sphinx at 6:37 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


Has anyone invented catnip for humans? Grows rapidly almost anywhere, absorbed just by smelling, lasts maybe 20 minutes (and subsequent doses don't really do anything), has no negative side effects. I think this needs to be the next X Prize.
posted by miyabo at 6:39 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


You know that individual who sits at the back of the class with their undiagnosed ADHD and just sort of entertains themselves? That's been me my whole life. And someone got that person high.

Me too. Also PTSD. Getting high was like lifting a huge weight off my shoulders. My constant anxiety drifted away, which allowed me to focus better and to exist in the moment. That's true to this day, more than 25 years later. When I underwent chemo for cancer treatments in 1990, it allowed me to keep food down and maintain a healthy appetite. I've always considered it medicine, at least for why I use it. But I've known other people with similar issues, and it's not always helpful for everyone. Recreationally it's pretty benign, but the way Dowd went about trying it was kinda foolish and makes the story mostly about her bad decisions leading to bad outcomes. YMMV.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:40 PM on June 4, 2014 [4 favorites]


Also, I'm not sure why dispensaries in CO are making such strong edibles. When I was in CA a couple years ago, all the dispensary edibles were one "dose" per item, as in one cookie wouldn't be too much for most people. My favorite dispensary gave me a free cookie for every purchase I made which was over, say, 1/4 oz of high quality buds, limited to one free cookie at a time. It wasn't official policy, but I don't use too much in edible form in general, so it was a nice treat but never overwhelming.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:54 PM on June 4, 2014


I read this this morning and LOL'd like pretty much everyone else. It was really dumb of her to eat the whole thing. However, I've done something similar: Someone gave me a medical marijuana cookie and told me not to eat more than 1/4 of it. Fair enough. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've smoked weed and didn't like it much, mostly because of the smoke part. So I happily cut it in quarters one Saturday night and ate it. I hadn't considered how much longer it would take to take effect. I was alone in my apartment and after about half an hour, thinking nothing was happening, I had another 1/4. Another half an hour, I felt perfectly fine but MAN was my cat SO HIGH. That's a HIGH MOTHERFUCKING CAT. Look at him! He's waaaaaaasted.

Then about 20 minutes later I felt it. I felt every follicle of hair on my head. And I felt the high descend down my head, over my face, down to my toes. Like how they tell you to relax when you're meditating? Yeah, like that but heavy man, so heavy. Then I spent the next 6 hours watching The Notebook back to back to back before falling asleep.

Too bad Dowd didn't have a cat with her, Cheech & Chong style!
posted by marylynn at 6:55 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


This thread had to happen on the day I run out of weed but it still entertained me for the whole evening. That and reminiscing about courgette chocolate space cake.
posted by yoHighness at 7:10 PM on June 4, 2014


So a friend found a gram of weed in his pocket outside the airport and smoked it all, then on the plane he got so paranoid he asked them to let him off again. He heard later from an aquaintance who unbeknownst was a few rows behind. The aquaintance was not stoned but superstitious - apparantly in these circles they believed my friend to be clairvoyant. So my friend getting off the plane again in a big hurry alarmed this guy a lot. When they landed in Spain he kissed the ground.
posted by yoHighness at 7:36 PM on June 4, 2014 [3 favorites]


cortex: "I have a friend who smoked way too much weed one time a bunch of years ago; it wasn't his first time ever trying pot, but he didn't have more than a couple of minor quick-toke experiences at beery hangouts previously.

My friend still has the recordings he and his buddy made of their shitty stoned guitar playing somewhere.
"

Huh. I wasn't aware we'd met, Cortex!
posted by notsnot at 7:47 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


Has anyone invented catnip for humans? Grows rapidly almost anywhere, absorbed just by smelling, lasts maybe 20 minutes (and subsequent doses don't really do anything), has no negative side effects

DMT (derived from psychoactives found in Ayahuasca) and salvia divinorum (a member of the sage genus/family) are both fast acting and short duration. But they're more on the level of psychedelic supernaut and not recommended for first journeys nor doing without a sitter or in social environments. As with any psychedelic, some people should probably avoid them entirely, especially those with a family history of schizophrenia.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:53 PM on June 4, 2014


Once upon a time I worked at a college research lab. The annual conference in our field was being held in another city, and the lab Director decided that rather than paying airfare for all the grad students and associates going to the conference, he'd just get a van from the university pool and we'd all get to road trip it for the 8-hr drive. The decision was made that we weren't going to stop for food, everyone had to pack a lunch. Most of us brown-bagged it for lunch anyway, so no big deal.
So that morning we're driving from apartment to apartment, picking up a grad student with a rucksack and small brown bag with a sammich and maybe some fruit or chips. Slowly the van's filling up, and we get to Jane's stop. Jane's sitting on a cooler at the curb.
"Hey Jane, what's with the cooler?" "You said to bring lunch!" "Uh, OK? That seems like a lot?" "Oh, I brought some to share". Jane was from foreign climes, and always brought awesome stuff to the departmental pot-lucks so nobody complained too much.
We were barely out of the city when Jane pipes up "Who wants a snack?", and proceeds to extract from her cooler a cutting board, a bread knife, a couple of sticks of french bread, and some cheese, and proceeds to hand out cheese-on-bread.
An hour later: "Anyone want some watermelon?" and proceeds to carve up a watermelon. In the moving van. And so the drive progresses, with all this non-grad-student/non-typical-road-food coming out of the cooler. Bless her heart.
Now Bob, on the other hand, had decided that in order to ease the burden of an 8-hr drive with a bunch of his co-workers he was going to bring a batch of hash brownies. Which, for everyone who knew Bob, was pretty typical. Now, the people who were likely to indulge in some of Bob's brownies were not clustered in a single part of the van, but were distributed around. So the little sack of brownies is being passed around. "What's this?" "Bob made some brownies". "Oh, OK, no thanks"/"Awesome!", cause pretty much everyone knew about Bob's brownie-making skills. Except Jane, apparently. The sack goes by Jane, and everyone knows Jane's really pretty straight, so the bag is passed by her. And she says "wait, I want a brownie". Total silence. Everyone except the driver is staring at her. "What, I like brownies". "No Jane, those are Bob's brownies". "I know, I heard he makes good brownies". "You don't understand, those are not normal brownies". "Look pretty normal to me! I want one". "Uh Jane, you really don't want one of those brownies". "Yes I do!". "Those are hash brownies". "I thought those were potato?" "Not that kind of hash". "???". So we then educated Jane on what hash brownies meant. A look of horror slowly crept up her face as understanding dawned. Then she very carefully said "No, no brownies", and life returned to normal in the van.
Later in the afternoon those who did partake of Bob's brownies were pretty damn glad that Jane brought that cooler. And Bob made her a batch of regular brownies later on.
posted by Runes at 8:04 PM on June 4, 2014 [12 favorites]


The best pot story on metafilter, or anywhere THE DAY OF THE PANCAKES

Actually, that was several days of pancakes. (I was wondering where the hell all of those favorites on an old comment were coming from.)

And I have a small update: Embarrassingly, I may have now actually experienced a weed overdose. It was mildly scary (for me) and may be related to other health issues, so YMMV and this may not actually be a true overdose in the sense that it was entirely the fault of cannabis. I had also been drinking and hitting my nicotine e-cig pretty heavily since for the first time I didn't have to go outside to burn disgusting tobacco.

There's a house full of stoner nerds in this town that throws cannabis parties a few times a year, and they're usually pretty epic in the amount of food (medicated and not) and the spectrum of backgrounds of those who attend.

I haven't been partaking much at all over the past half a year or so because I've been broke and I have been mainly sober.

So I arrived at one of these parties on 4/20 with a very low tolerance and went at it like I usually do anyway. I have an epic, Scottish sized appetite for basically everything whether it's cookies or reading or booze, which is one of the reasons I've carefully avoided harder "street" drugs like crack, meth, coke or heroin because I'd dive down that hole so fast I'd break relativistic speeds and wouldn't survive it.

At this party there were a variety of edibles available. Cookies, small chocolate candies, brownies, even entrees and stuff. These people like to get really fucking high. There were also about a half dozen different vaporizers going, not to mention the odd outside smoke break for combustion of flowers and/or extracts and concentrates.

Well, I got really fucking high. Which is what I was intending to do because weeeee low tolerance.

Fast forward to about 2 or 3 AM in the morning and people are passing around huge Volcano bags of vapor and people were kind of egging each other on because you can't actually overdose on cannabis, right, and we're all experienced and still awake, right?

Well. After an especially greedy lungful of vapor trying to clear out the bag and holding it for possibly too long, I had a small, brief seizure and blackout and scared the shit out of everyone left standing.

I was only out for a second or two, and the seizure was brief and mild, but it wasn't a happy thing. I didn't fall out of the couch or anything and I felt fine (if confused) afterwards, and needless to say I was done for the night and switched to coffee and water and was otherwise ok. I don't have a history of actual epilepsy or blackouts in general, though, so, who knows. It could have been the polydrug use (alcohol, cannabis and nicotine) and not the cannabis itself, so it's really hard to tell.

There really isn't any moral to this story, just that you can possibly get way too high on cannabis above and beyond the psychological effects. Which can be entirely unpleasant in themselves, not to mention the physical and gastrointestinal consequences of giving in to the munchies and stuffing your piehole with too much pie.
posted by loquacious at 8:47 PM on June 4, 2014 [5 favorites]


DMT (derived from psychoactives found in Ayahuasca) and salvia divinorum (a member of the sage genus/family) are both fast acting and short duration. But they're more on the level of psychedelic supernaut and not recommended for first journeys nor doing without a sitter or in social environments.

YMMV obviously, but I've tried and enjoyed an awful lot of drugs in my day, and salvia made me feel like shit. The funhouse distortions of my visual field were pretty unpleasant, and I didn't get any of the mellowing or deepening qualities that I typically like from my reality-altering experiences. Just feeling weird isn't enough. Meh.
posted by mykescipark at 9:17 PM on June 4, 2014 [2 favorites]


What I got out of the piece is that better labeling is needed on edible marijuana. And that there's been an uptick in reports of people having adverse reactions to pot since legalization in Colorado.
posted by ADave at 9:53 PM on June 4, 2014


What I got out of the piece is that better labeling is needed on edible marijuana.

I agree, but perhaps we need to go further. For illustration, I'm going to transcribe everything on this bottle in my kitchen, and compare it to another one.
100% RYE GRAIN
ALBERTA PREMIUM
CANADIAN RYE WHISKY
WHISKY CANADIEN

40% alc/vol 750ml
ALBERTA DISTILLERS LIMITED

Alberta Premium is an authentic rye that is still made the traditional way from the finest Canadian prairie rye grain and glacier-born Rocky Mountain water.
ALBERTA DISTILLERS LIMITED
CALGARY, CANADA
RETURN FOR REFUND WHERE APPLICABLE/CONSIGNE LÀ OÙ LA LOI LE PRESCRIT 750ml
Now, contrast that with the tiny bottle of lighter fluid under the sink. The one with the skull and cross bones in an octagonal border that tells you POTENTIALLY FATAL POISON and instructs you to call 911 and not to induce vomiting.

The bottle that says nothing about poison is a lot more likely to cause fatal poisoning if consumed entirely. Hell, at least in the States you have a warning about pregnancy and not operating motor vehicles and may cause health problems. Still though, you'd figure there are enough cases of fatal alcohol poisoning that every bottle that contains enough ethanol to kill someone would be clearly labeled as such.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 11:49 PM on June 4, 2014


I'm actually kind of glad that this is coming to light, because sooner or later there are going to be some freakouts from n00bs that know zero about edibles. Smoking pot will give you a more or less immediate high, certainly no longer than 20 or 30 seconds.

EDIBLES ARE DIFFERENT.

Sitting in my hotel room in Denver, I nibbled off the end and then, when nothing happened, nibbled some more.

...and that's exactly what not to do. You don't nibble off the end, which implies an entire large-ish portion of the bar. You nibbble a teeny, tiny bit. And then you WAIT. And wait some more. And after you're done waiting, you wait some more. It's extremely hard to tell how strong an edible is without, well, eating it. So you have to put your scientist hat on for a bit and test the strength. It can take quite a while, so be patient. But when you've got a good idea of the efficacy of the edible, then you can dose yourself whatever level is desired.
posted by zardoz at 12:08 AM on June 5, 2014


I've had pot brownies once, and it was not a pleasant experience. In fact, I've had a few not very pleasant experiences with pot. The last time I smoked pot, I did a gravity bong hit that laid me out for hours, including vomiting and full on hallucinations. I haven't had any interest in doing it since then. I still think it's better than drinking for most people.
posted by empath at 12:19 AM on June 5, 2014


And I should say that I had a similar "freakout" when I ate a too-strong brownie or cookie once, and was similarly laying on my bed, unable to do much of anything from overwhelming paranoia. Did I blame the weed? Did I blame my roommate who made the cookies? No and no. I blamed myself, I was the one who ate too much without testing it. Dowd is how old and still has an external locus of control? How does she get through a night at the bar?

Making cannabutter is actually a pretty excellent way to making edibles, as you can simply swipe a bit of the butter on whatever you're eating. Again, starting with baby steps, and gradually increase the dosage until you get to a nice spot. I remember taking a little pat of cannabutter to work with my box lunch, added a little swipe (knowing, of course, how much or how little to use), and went about my merry day. My coworkers were none the wiser.
posted by zardoz at 12:20 AM on June 5, 2014


I kinda think the best way to do a THC edible is in a slightly bitter tasting candy that has a well established dose and clear instructions. Just to slow people down and discourage people from eating a few of them at once.
posted by empath at 12:21 AM on June 5, 2014 [2 favorites]


SOME people who might be called a friend MAYBE hit on the idea of a THC caramel candy, about the size of a quarter, something bitter you sucked on like a lozenge, with the warning that by the time you finish it you won't feel it.
posted by The Whelk at 12:24 AM on June 5, 2014




saucy_knave you made me cry.
posted by Catch at 3:32 AM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]




For me too many of these comments seem like the sorry tales 30, 40 and 50 year old(s) tell/told about the excesses in their early/mid twenties. Do you remember the night we....fill in the blank: drank all night and lost the car, threw up on...., took you to the ER because I thought.... Personally I always found these reminisces a bit sad. Perhaps because of my age, career or personal experiences stories of excess, hurt or destructiveness to self/others associated with alcohol and drugs seem telling of folly. Well, I am going to have a diet Dr. Pepper and read some more posts.
posted by rmhsinc at 6:21 AM on June 5, 2014


I definitely know some 20somethings who could regale you with takes of excess - stuff that happened to them last weekend or last year or whatever, if that would make you feel better.
posted by rtha at 6:40 AM on June 5, 2014 [3 favorites]


For me too many of these comments seem like the sorry tales 30, 40 and 50 year old(s) tell/told about the excesses in their early/mid twenties

"I did something stupid/funny/incredibly dangerous and some stupid/funny/incredibly dangerous things happened and I DIDN'T DIE."

That's like, the definition of story.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:38 AM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]


Personally I always found these reminisces a bit sad. Perhaps because of my age, career or personal experiences stories of excess, hurt or destructiveness to self/others associated with alcohol and drugs seem telling of folly.

What about excess that didn't hurt or destroy anything but instead was fun and led to some new experiences and didn't ruin anybody's life? What's wrong with that?
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:41 AM on June 5, 2014 [3 favorites]


Fun things are morally wrong, pleasure is something to be feared and shunned. Which is why Nancy Reagan gave us the War on Some Drugs.

Also remember marijuana isn't for fun, it's medicine. Shame on Dowd for taking mother earth's precious gift from the mouths of AIDS-cancer patients.
posted by Nelson at 7:58 AM on June 5, 2014 [4 favorites]


I'm finding this thread interesting because I only just started smoking pot last summer, and I had no idea that edibles were meant for nibbling. I think if somebody had handed me a pot cookie, it wouldn't have occurred to me not to eat the whole cookie, because that's what you do with cookies.

On the other hand, when I decided to try pot, I asked an experienced friend to show me how to do it. She gave me all kinds of advice about how to do it properly and safely, and we got high together. She makes edibles, and if I wanted to try them, I'd probably do the same thing ask her to introduce me, and she'd give me a whole orientation first. My point is that I don't agree that Maureen Dowd should have known better than to eat the whole thing. I do think she should have known better than to do this experiment all by herself. She didn't have a friend who could have gone with her? It didn't occur to her to get advice from someone more experienced? Heck, she could have told whoever she bought the thing from that it was her first time, and asked for tips.

I told my kids not long ago that if they were ever interested in trying drugs of any kind, that this friend or their Uncle [Redacted] would be good people to go to for advice. I don't know that they'd ever actually do that, but Uncle Redacted researched for months (pre-internet!) before trying LSD for the first time and deciding the benefits outweighed the risks, and Friend is very experienced. They'd both give the kids lots of information and non-hysterical risk-benefit info.

Ha, writing that makes me realize that I don't want my kids to have Drug Abuse Resistance Education. I want them to have a really good, non-judgmental, "Here's why some people use this drug, because they enjoy x, y, and z effects. Here's how the drug works in the body. Here is how addiction works. People are very likely to become addicted to this drug, and less likely to become addicted to this other one."

My partner used to smoke but hadn't in years, and after I tried it with my friend, she sent home a few joints with me as a gift for him. One night, we were smoking after the kids were in bed. Unexpectedly, our twelve-year-old came out of his bedroom and headed for the kitchen to get a drink of water. He said, "What are you doing?" and, startled out of any ability to dissemble, I said, "Smoking marijuana." Because this is a kid who takes everything in stride, he said, "Oh. Well, good night!"
posted by not that girl at 8:39 AM on June 5, 2014 [5 favorites]


Someone I know gave her reefer madness influenced elderly mother 1/2 of a dose of high CBD/ low THC hard candy. An hour later she asked her mother if she was feeling anything.

"No", the elderly woman said, "give me the other half of that candy."

She obliged and a half an hour later asked her mother if she was feeling anything. "All I feel is hungry and sleepy" she complained, "this stuff is no good. I think I have too high of a tolerance. Next time bring me something stronger."

True story, or so my friend says.
posted by echolalia67 at 9:12 AM on June 5, 2014


This thread is really timely. This guy I know is going to be making pot brownies for the first time today!

There is this guy I know who has, in his 30's, just started smoking pot about a month ago. After finally figuring out how to make a contact that could sell him some, bought some. Then, being the type of person that he is, did a bunch of research on how to consume it. Started with a cheap pipe in spite of advice to smoke a joint for the first time (rolling joints looks hard), found that to be kind of harsh so did some more research. The grinder was a bit of an investment but it turns out that the key piece to rolling a joint is a cigarette rolling machine. They are as cheap as $5 and make rolling a joint SO EASY!

Well, joints are still taking some getting used to (or so he, um, tells me) so he is going to try his hand at making edibles. In figuring out how to do it, one of the first links he ran across that on a site that was more than a forum for stoners was this article "Making Medical Pot Brownies Looks Easy, But It Isn't" along with a bunch of other links with people saying, "Go slow and be careful with edibles!"

This information is not at all hard to find and any internet search relating to edibles will turn up similar information.

This guy I know has settled on putting 4 grams of his pretty high quality MJ into a batch of brownies and cooking them into an 18"x9" pan to be cut into 24 brownies and will probably only eat half or one the first time and then waiting a solid hour (or more depending on when he last ate).

Dowd didn't even have to deal with figuring out how much to use to make the thing, she just had to ask how strong they were and figured out how to much eat from there.
posted by VTX at 9:16 AM on June 5, 2014 [3 favorites]




Maureen Dowd was extremely naive and reckless to go about this the way that she did, and even a modicum of internet research (or a casual conversation with, uh, anyone else) would likely have given her a better way of approaching this.

Yeah, but then she wouldn't have had her scary pot story, if we even believe what she wrote is what actually happened.
posted by MartinWisse at 10:38 AM on June 5, 2014


So, I understand how there's an expectation that one does their research before eating anything with THC in it. But I also understand how one can assume that legalization brings with it the safety of regulation, and that packaging will thus be obvious.

I don't give her a free pass for being a pandering and sensationalist idiot, but I think there are lots of other idiots out there with no agenda, who don't want to end up on the wrong end of what they thought was a product with consistent effects. If weed is going to be legal, then there needs to be strict regulation to ensure that packaging has the correct information.

To add to this, unlike being able to taste alcohol, it's pretty hard to know how much THC is in your oil, butter, brownie, cookie, etc. A reliable test that consumers could purchase would be helpful here. A search for such a test only brought up less practical products, like urine tests. With a test like this, producers can standardize the dosage, which is in their best interest.

In my opinion, telling people to go slow and be careful isn't good enough on its own with a major hallucinogen.
posted by hanoixan at 10:51 AM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]


it turns out that the key piece to rolling a joint is a cigarette rolling machine.

Indeed. Best investment ever if you're going to regularly smoke weed.
posted by MartinWisse at 10:54 AM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]


Sphinx: His buddy, a guy I've known for a while had half a CA med brownie and had a full blown "I'm way too high" panic attack in the Metrodome.

I just remember thinking how comfortable the seats were. In the Metrodome.


Sphinx, obviously you were more stoned than the other guy.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:28 AM on June 5, 2014


Dowd's response to the story from her tour guide. "I favor legalization," she said, "but given all the tourists streaming into Colorado, it would be better to err on the side of conservative cautions."
posted by whir at 12:12 PM on June 5, 2014


Pogo_Fuzzybutt: Dowd's idiocy aside, there does need to be better regulation and standardization of labelling. The edibles industry would be doing themselves a huge favor to get out in front of that.

Colorado is actually working on this:
The first law signed by the governor on Wednesday creates a task force to devise packaging for cannabis-infused edibles such as cookies and candy that makes those products readily distinguishable from regular foods.

"Sadly, cases of children ingesting marijuana are on the rise in Colorado," said state Senator Mike Johnston, the bill's primary sponsor. "By improving labeling and giving kids a way to tell the difference between a snack and a harmful substance, we can keep kids ... out of the emergency room."

The second law regulates the amount of concentrated marijuana that can be sold to an individual, closing a legal gap that treats one ounce of leafy pot the same as an equivalent amount of more powerful forms of the drug, such as hash oil.
Ideally, they'd have had these issues worked out before legalization, but given the circumstances it seems like they're on top of things.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:39 PM on June 5, 2014


> t turns out that the key piece to rolling a joint is a cigarette rolling machine. Indeed. Best investment ever if you're going to regularly smoke weed.

Dollar, dollar bill, yo. It's the same principle as those rolling machines, and less paraphernalia to bother with.
posted by planetesimal at 2:32 PM on June 5, 2014 [4 favorites]


Just learn to roll with your fingers?
posted by forgetful snow at 2:37 PM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]


Why would that-guy-I-know do that when the little machine was only $5, rolls perfect joints every time (they seriously look like cigarettes out of a pack), is almost totally fool-proof, small and portable, easy to use, keeps him from getting sticky fingers, and takes almost no time? The very first one that he rolled with it turned out great and everyone after it has been just as good.
posted by VTX at 3:32 PM on June 5, 2014


Hey, all you folks that wanted more NYT columnists writing about their drugs experences? It's happened. Sort of.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:16 PM on June 5, 2014 [1 favorite]


Whenever I hear someone say that pot isn't harmful, or there are no side effects, or that you just need to consume it responsibly, I really question that logic. There was something harmful going on. I did take what I felt was a reasonable amount. But that's exactly the issue - unless you start exceedingly small, it is very easy to overindulge without knowing the impact it's going to have. .* When I have a beer, I know how I'll be at the end of that beer. With edibles, it's too hard to judge. When those go wrong, they go wrong to a big degree.


Well, a big part of the problem is the whole "just say no" policy that this country (US) has had for the last few decades. Because of the "WAR ON some DRUGS" and the government propaganda campaign that went along with it, the difference between smoked and eaten cannabis was well known enough amongst users but that information was not widely disseminated. Overall, we're pretty bad at getting our minds around the whole concept of harm reduction. Saying no has not worked in the slightest, but many want to double down on this failing policy because the idea of telling people how to use safely is morally repugnant to them. You know what to expect from your beer because society sees alcohol as a more acceptable alternative despite it's appalling track record. Alcohol manufacturing is considered a legitimate business and because of that they are subject to regulation and oversight in the name of the public interest.

It seems like it's only been fairly recent that we've seen lab testing and standard dosing information as part of the SOP for dispensaries and edible manufacturers. Most of he dispensaries I go to do lab testing as a rule but there's one that I probably won't go back to because of the overall sloppy, shady vibe, the lack of testing being but one obvious factor in the sketchiness of the place. As cannabis becomes more acceptable, people will gradually move towards products that are grown, produced and sold in line with industry and regulatory guidelines and that have well known and standardized dosages.
posted by echolalia67 at 7:07 PM on June 5, 2014


it turns out that the key piece to rolling a joint is a cigarette rolling machine.

Indeed. Best investment ever if you're going to regularly smoke weed.


Disagree. Too much of the bud burns away as second hand smoke. The best investment is some sort of pipe or bong, preferably one with a glass bowl. And I've not smoked in a while, but in the past decade vaporizers seem to be all the rage; I wonder if they are more efficient than pipes.
posted by zardoz at 8:25 PM on June 5, 2014


The various means all have their utility.
posted by planetesimal at 8:54 PM on June 5, 2014 [3 favorites]


Never let a stoned Tom Friedman use your toilet.
posted by homunculus at 9:22 PM on June 5, 2014 [3 favorites]


zardoz: "
Disagree. Too much of the bud burns away as second hand smoke. The best investment is some sort of pipe or bong, preferably one with a glass bowl. And I've not smoked in a while, but in the past decade vaporizers seem to be all the rage; I wonder if they are more efficient than pipes.
"

Considerably more so in my experience. Also a much more pleasant experience, lacking the harshness of smoking.
posted by calamari kid at 7:35 AM on June 6, 2014 [3 favorites]


The degree to which handheld vaporizers change the nature of ingestion is kind of astonishing, actually.
posted by planetesimal at 8:05 AM on June 6, 2014 [3 favorites]


Here in Seattle we have the Winterlife Co-op (google it, I'm at work). It has a fresh sheet of new product every day. They sell mostly weed, but they have a large selection of edibles and oils and whatnot. For $10, you can get a 75mg activated thc pill. They even come in a two pack for $15! They sell a 200mg thc chocolate bar for $25.

Edibles are simply far too powerful and far too cheap to be reasonable retail items. It'd be like if they sold a bottle of peach schnaps that was 180 proof, tasted like almost nothing, and cost $1.


I'm a regular Winterlife customer, and I've never once had a delivery guy leave without giving me the run-down on whatever product I'm buying if I'm not buying plain old unprocessed smokeable buds. And you can't just have one of their delivery guys roll up and throw you a couple of caramels (unless you've established a relationship with one of their guys and he's giving you a freebie) -- there's a minimum purchase price of $50 with Winterlife, so to get any edibles from them you can either spend $50 on that, or you can spend $50 on regular old buds and then pick up a couple of 25mg truffles at $5 each or hope that you got the delivery guy who has a couple of cookies or something (actual baked goods are catch-as-catch-can and are never listed on the daily menu).

Right now, they're selling 50mg chocolate bars for $10 each, and 200mg bars for $30 each. A quarter ounce of reasonably good bud from the same merchant sells for $60, and it seems to me like a reasonable person might look at the dosage levels and pricing on the edibles, compare it to the price per quarter ounce of plain bud, and realize that maybe they should go easy on the edibles at least to start with. I know that takes some critical reasoning skills and we don't really expect people to have those anymore, but I'm a throwback to the good old days of slightly less blatant stupidity and I like having unreasonable expectations of others.

Anyway, I'm sure there are really stupid, crazy people out there who will plunk down $50 for five candy bars and wolf them all down right away and get sick as hell, just like there are really stupid, crazy people out there who will go out and buy a fifth of high proof alcohol and pound the whole thing within a few hours and get sick as hell. But that doesn't mean that it's not a reasonable retail item, it means that some retailers are better than others at communicating risk (something that actually was communicated to Maureen Dowd, per the "weed tour guide" that assisted her with her purchases and aftercare), and some customers are stupid as balls.
posted by palomar at 11:06 AM on June 6, 2014 [2 favorites]


Dowd's piece isn't doing anyone any favors - deliberately faux-naive, especially now that we know she received all kinds of warnings and conveniently ignored them to make her point.

That said - echoing that edibles are serious business. I'm experienced and they can still throw me for a loop. I certainly hope no one is driving after consuming even a moderate amount of chocolate. People have been telling me that Colorado doesn't have any regulations on listing the potency of edibles or warning people about them. That's a problem. Now that it's legal, it needs to be regulated in a way that's safe and informative for everyone. (By that, I mean something as simple as required labeling and warnings.)

It sucks that Dowd's piece was so horrendous and laughable, because there are going to be ignorant people out there, and we need to account for them.
posted by naju at 3:39 PM on June 6, 2014


(Yeah - the new vaporizers out there should be the #1 choice for everyone, as far as I'm concerned. "This changes everything.")
posted by naju at 3:47 PM on June 6, 2014 [3 favorites]


A friend of mine--really--just bought himself a Pax Ploom. I asked him about it last weekend, and he's most excited that he can toke in bed without his wife complaining about the smoke. I guess whatever floats your boat.
posted by uncleozzy at 5:41 PM on June 6, 2014


I feel like your "--really--" is an unfair post-hoc raising of the bar that is casting aspersions on all of the rest of us with pot-consuming friends in this thread. Next time we're all going to have to say "--really--" to start with and you had better not arms race us further than that!
posted by Corinth at 11:19 PM on June 6, 2014


I read an entire fucking New York Times article without remembering the big grain of salt and started laughing so hard that my laughter turned into vomit and now it's not stopping pls hlp
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:58 PM on June 9, 2014


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