NFL Concussion Settlement
November 22, 2014 2:44 PM Subscribe
How much is a brain worth to the NFL? FRONTLINE reporter Jason Breslow hosts a three minute video on the latest development between the NFL and former players. What's the monetary value of a human brain in this context?
(I was previously connected to the organization that produced this video, but left six months ago. I found this the same way that you find cool stuff-- through social media.)
(I was previously connected to the organization that produced this video, but left six months ago. I found this the same way that you find cool stuff-- through social media.)
To except players who did not have symptoms soon enough is SO cold-hearted. The players really are just slabs in a meat market. OTOH, some are highly paid and could set aside some funds to support their treatments in the future when their damage can no longer be ignored. Like anybody else has to.
posted by Cranberry at 3:16 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Cranberry at 3:16 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
Pendragon, A distinction without a difference in this case.
posted by oddman at 3:17 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by oddman at 3:17 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who is an Ivy League educated lawyer who told me recently that he believes that within our, or our children's lifetimes, the NFL will cease to be, and it will be because of the legal ramifications of the league knowing about the head injuries and not doing enough about them.
I have no idea if he is right, but it is interesting to think about.
posted by 4ster at 3:32 PM on November 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
I have no idea if he is right, but it is interesting to think about.
posted by 4ster at 3:32 PM on November 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
it will be because of the legal ramifications of the league knowing about the head injuries and not doing enough about them
If looking the other way at dog fighting and beating up women and children won't stop people giving their attention and love to this sport, screwing over players with brain injuries won't do much.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:54 PM on November 22, 2014 [5 favorites]
If looking the other way at dog fighting and beating up women and children won't stop people giving their attention and love to this sport, screwing over players with brain injuries won't do much.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:54 PM on November 22, 2014 [5 favorites]
Pendragon, A distinction without a difference in this case.I am not sure I undertand. Do you mean that the players shouldn't have been allowed to accept the amount of money that they accepted, because it was too little to harm the NFL?
posted by Flunkie at 4:24 PM on November 22, 2014
I used to love pro football but I can't really enjoy watching a game anymore. I still love the complexity of offense vs. defense and the strategy of the game but I can't ignore the brutality that I used to see as mere physicality.
posted by double block and bleed at 4:40 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by double block and bleed at 4:40 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
"OTOH, some are highly paid and could set aside some funds to support their treatments in the future when their damage can no longer be ignored." The highly paid are the least likely to be injured - the owners make sure of that.
"How Long do NFL Careers Last?
To answer that question, we'll have to establish a baseline: how long the average NFL career lasts.
The NFL Players Association pegs that number at 3.5 seasons. During the 2011 lockout, Commissioner Roger Goodell told a group of fans it's "closer to six years," assuming you're only counting players who are on the active roster from the beginning of their career."
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"NFL players union and Harvard team up on landmark study of football injuries and illness." Link.
"The result is a dramatically shortened life span: While white men in the United States on average live to age 78 and African-American men to about 70, “it appears that professional football players in both the United States and Canada have life expectancies in the mid- to late-50s,” Harvard researchers wrote in a summary of their project."
Part of this has to do with that giant men don't live long no matter their career, part has to do with that giant men running into each other for a living decreases their lifespan.
So too is coal mining or any number of "mens" jobs which decrease the lifespan, none of which have the same adulation or financial reward as profesional football. Absent some very costly lawsuits I don't see college or professional football ending soon. Last fall, 34 of the 35 most-watched programs on TV were NFL games. And the league makes $10 Billion a year.
I've been a fan for four decades but I'm pretty close to giving it a quit.
posted by vapidave at 5:10 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
"How Long do NFL Careers Last?
To answer that question, we'll have to establish a baseline: how long the average NFL career lasts.
The NFL Players Association pegs that number at 3.5 seasons. During the 2011 lockout, Commissioner Roger Goodell told a group of fans it's "closer to six years," assuming you're only counting players who are on the active roster from the beginning of their career."
--------------------------------
"NFL players union and Harvard team up on landmark study of football injuries and illness." Link.
"The result is a dramatically shortened life span: While white men in the United States on average live to age 78 and African-American men to about 70, “it appears that professional football players in both the United States and Canada have life expectancies in the mid- to late-50s,” Harvard researchers wrote in a summary of their project."
Part of this has to do with that giant men don't live long no matter their career, part has to do with that giant men running into each other for a living decreases their lifespan.
So too is coal mining or any number of "mens" jobs which decrease the lifespan, none of which have the same adulation or financial reward as profesional football. Absent some very costly lawsuits I don't see college or professional football ending soon. Last fall, 34 of the 35 most-watched programs on TV were NFL games. And the league makes $10 Billion a year.
I've been a fan for four decades but I'm pretty close to giving it a quit.
posted by vapidave at 5:10 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
I should also add that my brother-in-law played on the defensive line [left tackle I think] for the Colarado Buffaloes in college and he and I have the same sized head and I tried on his helmet [he's fine, a successful engineer, he bailed from the football program] - I used to ride motorcycles and bicycles and I would rank the protection granted by helmets thus: Full face motorcycle helmet > bicycle helmet > stainless steel pot > Football helmet.
posted by vapidave at 5:34 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by vapidave at 5:34 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
We only talk about this in terms of football, but, there's a huge soccer culture in the US for little kids (not a great age to start hitting the ball with your head) and risk for developing chronic traumatic encephalopathy in soccer as well. I'm not sure why we just limit the discussion to football, as though it's the only sport where this kind of injury occurs.
posted by discopolo at 5:44 PM on November 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by discopolo at 5:44 PM on November 22, 2014 [3 favorites]
"OTOH, some are highly paid and could set aside some funds to support their treatments in the future when their damage can no longer be ignored."
Once pro football players leave the game, their healthcare is their own responsibility. By comparison, any professional baseball player who has played in the major leagues is guaranteed healthcare for life by the league.
posted by charlesminus at 6:24 PM on November 22, 2014 [4 favorites]
Once pro football players leave the game, their healthcare is their own responsibility.
... coal mining or any number of "mens" jobs which decrease the lifespan, none of which have the same adulation or financial reward as profesional football. And many of these jobs have no, or shitty, health care, and after they leave the 'game' they're screwed.
This society eats people up and spits them out. We suck.
... within our, or our children's lifetimes, the NFL will cease to be...
We can only hope.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:28 PM on November 22, 2014
... coal mining or any number of "mens" jobs which decrease the lifespan, none of which have the same adulation or financial reward as profesional football. And many of these jobs have no, or shitty, health care, and after they leave the 'game' they're screwed.
This society eats people up and spits them out. We suck.
... within our, or our children's lifetimes, the NFL will cease to be...
We can only hope.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:28 PM on November 22, 2014
I have a friend who is an Ivy League educated lawyer who told me recently that he believes that within our, or our children's lifetimes, the NFL will cease to be, and it will be because of the legal ramifications of the league knowing about the head injuries and not doing enough about them.
The other, more depressing option, is that Congressional action will indemnify the NFL because "AMERICA!" and also anti-workerism.
(Remember telecom immunity? Yeah, like that.)
posted by migrantology at 6:29 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
The other, more depressing option, is that Congressional action will indemnify the NFL because "AMERICA!" and also anti-workerism.
(Remember telecom immunity? Yeah, like that.)
posted by migrantology at 6:29 PM on November 22, 2014 [1 favorite]
So is this likely to trickle down to the lower levels of football? Are players gonna be suing their colleges? Their high schools? 'Cause that might shut down those programs, leaving NFL without places to recruit from, right?
posted by NoraReed at 6:49 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 6:49 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure why we just limit the discussion to football, as though it's the only sport where this kind of injury occurs.
No one is "just limit"ing the discussion to football or intimating in any way that it's somehow unique. What it is, however, is the biggest sport where this kind of injury occurs. Professional football is a colossus to the point that CBS -- already the #1 network on television -- threw scads of money at the NFL this year for the right to air games on Thursday, the most important night of the week.
Exploring the effect of football on the brains of young men will affect every other sport soon enough, don't worry.
posted by Etrigan at 7:36 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
No one is "just limit"ing the discussion to football or intimating in any way that it's somehow unique. What it is, however, is the biggest sport where this kind of injury occurs. Professional football is a colossus to the point that CBS -- already the #1 network on television -- threw scads of money at the NFL this year for the right to air games on Thursday, the most important night of the week.
Exploring the effect of football on the brains of young men will affect every other sport soon enough, don't worry.
posted by Etrigan at 7:36 PM on November 22, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think the greatest threat to football is being undercut from the bottom; parents not putting their kids in the sport, reducing the recruitment pool and adult interest in the sport. Over time it'll compound and some other sport will take over (probably soccer, which can be trivially fixed by taking out heading the ball.)
Popular sports can fall. Boxing was once a huge deal, and now it's pretty ostracized for largely the same issues that football is dealing with now.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:22 PM on November 22, 2014
Popular sports can fall. Boxing was once a huge deal, and now it's pretty ostracized for largely the same issues that football is dealing with now.
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:22 PM on November 22, 2014
Cranberry:To except players who did not have symptoms soon enough is SO cold-hearted.
Keith Olbermann Reflects on the Life and Career of Doug Kotar—Olbermann, 30 August 2013
posted by ob1quixote at 2:31 AM on November 23, 2014
So too is coal mining or any number of "mens" jobs which decrease the lifespan, none of which have the same adulation or financial reward as profesional football.
So why is all the outrage about the NFL? I mean, I sure want the league to be responsible for the harm they cause to their players, but I want that from the organisations that operate coal mines too, and their employees are far far worse off, and probably need the help more.
How about rather than pushing for changes to football, we push for employers being responsible for the injuries and health damage caused to their employees by the job?
posted by Dysk at 2:51 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
So why is all the outrage about the NFL? I mean, I sure want the league to be responsible for the harm they cause to their players, but I want that from the organisations that operate coal mines too, and their employees are far far worse off, and probably need the help more.
How about rather than pushing for changes to football, we push for employers being responsible for the injuries and health damage caused to their employees by the job?
posted by Dysk at 2:51 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
Or both. We could do both.
posted by Etrigan at 4:17 AM on November 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:17 AM on November 23, 2014 [6 favorites]
Well the latter rather includes the former by design.
posted by Dysk at 4:30 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 4:30 AM on November 23, 2014 [2 favorites]
he believes that within our, or our children's lifetimes, the NFL will cease to be, and it will be because of the legal ramifications of the league knowing about the head injuries and not doing enough about them.
I've said this for three or four years now, since I learned about CTE and its effects. I quit watching football around then because, as others have expressed, I just can't watch those men destroy themselves anymore (though I don't judge any who continue to watch).
My sense is that the NFL will fall into the sinkhole that will open up underneath it: as a sport, it's completely dependent upon a farm system paid for and maintained by mostly public schools, from jr. high up through elite D1 NCAA. Once the science is more conclusive about CTE, I do not think that any schools will be able to afford the liability insurance premiums, nor will many public schools be able to sanction a sport that will soon be conclusively proven to be destructive to the human brain no matter how it is played.
On public university campuses in California now--as in, has happened within the last 18 months--the "risk management" paperwork to bring any non-student on campus to do just about anything is ridiculous. (I'm not kidding--if I want to bring, say, a group of high school kids on campus for a two hour activity, every individual kid & parent must sign two different forms indemnifying the university prior to the event. We host music festivals where we bring 25 or so high school groups of 65-90 each on campus per day, you can guess what the administration of these events is now like.) I can only imagine what will happen once medical science clearly confirms--i.e., in a way that changes the actuarial tables and insurance premiums--that playing football damages the brain long-term, but I don't see many schools having the resources to handle the cost and burden of such radically increased liability.
Culturally, who knows. The only model I can think of is boxing, which was the biggest spectator sport in the U.S. for around 60 years. I'm not sure if it happened like my memory says, but I remember there being a kind of watershed moment sometime in the mid-80s, when Muhammad Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's at age 42. His visible, rapid decline by the early 90s seems to have been the catalyst for the abrupt disappearance of boxing as a national sport with those multi-million dollar purses and giant pay-per-view events. (It was something, seeing one of the real paragons of American manliness decline so noticeably, quickly, and at such a young age. I think it finally made people realize 'oh, boxing damages your brain....ugh.....not sure I can watch this anymore...')
posted by LooseFilter at 8:12 AM on November 23, 2014
I've said this for three or four years now, since I learned about CTE and its effects. I quit watching football around then because, as others have expressed, I just can't watch those men destroy themselves anymore (though I don't judge any who continue to watch).
My sense is that the NFL will fall into the sinkhole that will open up underneath it: as a sport, it's completely dependent upon a farm system paid for and maintained by mostly public schools, from jr. high up through elite D1 NCAA. Once the science is more conclusive about CTE, I do not think that any schools will be able to afford the liability insurance premiums, nor will many public schools be able to sanction a sport that will soon be conclusively proven to be destructive to the human brain no matter how it is played.
On public university campuses in California now--as in, has happened within the last 18 months--the "risk management" paperwork to bring any non-student on campus to do just about anything is ridiculous. (I'm not kidding--if I want to bring, say, a group of high school kids on campus for a two hour activity, every individual kid & parent must sign two different forms indemnifying the university prior to the event. We host music festivals where we bring 25 or so high school groups of 65-90 each on campus per day, you can guess what the administration of these events is now like.) I can only imagine what will happen once medical science clearly confirms--i.e., in a way that changes the actuarial tables and insurance premiums--that playing football damages the brain long-term, but I don't see many schools having the resources to handle the cost and burden of such radically increased liability.
Culturally, who knows. The only model I can think of is boxing, which was the biggest spectator sport in the U.S. for around 60 years. I'm not sure if it happened like my memory says, but I remember there being a kind of watershed moment sometime in the mid-80s, when Muhammad Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's at age 42. His visible, rapid decline by the early 90s seems to have been the catalyst for the abrupt disappearance of boxing as a national sport with those multi-million dollar purses and giant pay-per-view events. (It was something, seeing one of the real paragons of American manliness decline so noticeably, quickly, and at such a young age. I think it finally made people realize 'oh, boxing damages your brain....ugh.....not sure I can watch this anymore...')
posted by LooseFilter at 8:12 AM on November 23, 2014
LooseFilter, not a sport, but an extremely popular pastime, horse racing, died like flipping a switch.
With boxing, it may sound silly, but I put a chunk of blame on the fact that big time boxing had the funk of Don King all over it. It was just so visibly exploitative and corrupt.
(Kinda like football2. Like if Jerry Jones owned one half of the teams and Dan Snyder the other.)
posted by Trochanter at 9:59 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
With boxing, it may sound silly, but I put a chunk of blame on the fact that big time boxing had the funk of Don King all over it. It was just so visibly exploitative and corrupt.
(Kinda like football2. Like if Jerry Jones owned one half of the teams and Dan Snyder the other.)
posted by Trochanter at 9:59 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think boxing died not so much because people turned away from it but because they turned to something else. Football happened to be that thing, because it provided the violence action while also providing a much more... let's say "tribal" experience. NFL teams are from places (even if most of the players aren't from that place), and they have continuity. So if you're from Chicago, you can be a Bears fan forever, even if Jay Cutler retires or gets traded to another team.
There are other advantages (16 games per year for your team vs. one or two fights per year for a boxer; offseason drama; more "characters" and character arcs), but tribalism plusviolence action was the major factor, in my opinion.
posted by Etrigan at 10:13 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
There are other advantages (16 games per year for your team vs. one or two fights per year for a boxer; offseason drama; more "characters" and character arcs), but tribalism plus
posted by Etrigan at 10:13 AM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
So if you're from Chicago, you can be a Bears fan forever, even if Jay Cutler retires or gets traded to another team.
More like when Culter retires or is traded.
posted by srboisvert at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2014
More like when Culter retires or is traded.
posted by srboisvert at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2014
I lost all interest in boxing after I watched Kim Duk-koo get beaten to death on live television in 1982.
posted by HillbillyInBC at 2:48 PM on November 23, 2014
posted by HillbillyInBC at 2:48 PM on November 23, 2014
Boxing isn't dead. Smoking isn't dead. And football won't die, either -- for the same reasons: the intersection of legal assumption of risk, and people just like it.
BCS teams, to say the least of NFL teams, don't give a whit for the kind of schools where parents will insist their kids play lacrosse or soccer instead of football, out of fear of injury.
What could be interesting over time is how this affects the Ivy League, DIII and NAIA liberal arts schools which suit up ten thousand kids every Saturday. Those schools have (currently) a big investment in playing better than the 15 year olds in small town Texas JV games, but not sure that there will long be enough smart kids playing high-enough level football for that to continue.
posted by MattD at 3:01 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
BCS teams, to say the least of NFL teams, don't give a whit for the kind of schools where parents will insist their kids play lacrosse or soccer instead of football, out of fear of injury.
What could be interesting over time is how this affects the Ivy League, DIII and NAIA liberal arts schools which suit up ten thousand kids every Saturday. Those schools have (currently) a big investment in playing better than the 15 year olds in small town Texas JV games, but not sure that there will long be enough smart kids playing high-enough level football for that to continue.
posted by MattD at 3:01 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think boxing died not so much because people turned away from it but because they turned to something else.
A lot of people turned to MMA because it was more savage. Made boxing looking the foxtrot at a rock concert.
posted by msalt at 11:14 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
A lot of people turned to MMA because it was more savage. Made boxing looking the foxtrot at a rock concert.
posted by msalt at 11:14 PM on November 23, 2014 [1 favorite]
I would rank the protection granted by helmets thus: Full face motorcycle helmet > bicycle helmet > stainless steel pot > Football helmet.
You either have an amazing bicycle helmet/ kitchen or your memory fails you. Regardless, what's the implication, that the NFL is responsible for helmet quality or that helmet manufacturers knowingly put out an inferior product?
posted by yerfatma at 6:12 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
You either have an amazing bicycle helmet/ kitchen or your memory fails you. Regardless, what's the implication, that the NFL is responsible for helmet quality or that helmet manufacturers knowingly put out an inferior product?
posted by yerfatma at 6:12 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
There's some interesting research in helmet design being done, specifically aimed at football. I'm working on an article about it.
posted by msalt at 10:30 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by msalt at 10:30 AM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]
Helmets are all well and good, but much of the problem is impact causing the brain to actually shift and bang against the inside of the skull. A helmet doesn't do a whole lot for that.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:02 PM on November 25, 2014
posted by BlueHorse at 7:02 PM on November 25, 2014
Ah, but that's exactly what one branch of the new research is about. Hopefully I'll have a very interesting article for you soon.
posted by msalt at 9:04 PM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by msalt at 9:04 PM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]
Msalt, holding you to that-would be interesting.
posted by BlueHorse at 10:46 AM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueHorse at 10:46 AM on November 27, 2014 [1 favorite]
Sure. This is a freelance article on spec -- if anyone has good suggestions for a publication that might print it, please let me know. I'll try ESPN the Magazine, but that's the toughest game in town.
posted by msalt at 11:17 PM on November 28, 2014
posted by msalt at 11:17 PM on November 28, 2014
Body of Missing OSU Player Kosta Karageorge Found, Police Say
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posted by tonycpsu at 3:30 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
Karageorge's mother, Susan Karageorge, had told NBC affiliate WCMH that her son suffers from concussions, and that he had sent her a text shortly before he went missing in which he apologized for being an "embarrassment" as a result of the medical condition.Another heartbreaking early end to a football player's life. We can't know for sure that the concussions played a significant role in his decision to end his life, but it's tragic nonetheless.
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posted by tonycpsu at 3:30 PM on November 30, 2014 [1 favorite]
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- A neuropathologist will look for signs of traumatic brain injury in an Ohio State athlete who was found dead of an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head and had a reported history of concussions, a coroner said Monday.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:01 AM on December 2, 2014
posted by tonycpsu at 8:01 AM on December 2, 2014
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