... and Alabama makes 37.
February 9, 2015 6:06 PM   Subscribe

 
Somebody's getting married?

Somebody's getting married!
posted by Madamina at 6:08 PM on February 9, 2015 [5 favorites]


My friend helped organize a Wedding Week in Huntsville. So happy for all the people that pitched in and the new couples!
posted by Calzephyr at 6:13 PM on February 9, 2015 [2 favorites]


Happy people make me happy.

C'mon, SCOTUS, cut to the chase already. Time to let the anti-equality yahoos know they're on the wrong side of history.
posted by kinnakeet at 6:13 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


Which constitution do I uphold?

This one, obviously.
posted by selfnoise at 6:15 PM on February 9, 2015


Some judges don't seem to find it a very difficult question at all:
“At the end of the day, it’s still a very simple legal analysis: You’ve got a federal court order,” said Judge Alan L. King of Jefferson County, who added: “This is a happy day for all of these couples, and if you can’t be happy for people, then I’m sorry. If someone can’t understand the joy and happiness of others, then I don’t know what else I can say.”
I feel like Roy Moore's behavior confirms all of my worst stereotypes about Alabama, so it's important to me to remember that all of the couples getting married, as well as people like Judge King, are just as much Alabamans as he is.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:15 PM on February 9, 2015 [59 favorites]


I had a snarky comment about Roy Moore continuing to fight the war of Northern aggression on behalf of the dregs of Alabama, but it's just disappointing that his probate judges who are breaking the law will not be held in contempt. Justice delayed is justice denied.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 6:17 PM on February 9, 2015 [2 favorites]


Gay marriage is legal in all but 13 states.

Never thought I'd be saying that so soon....
posted by schmod at 6:18 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


Ugh, must we have a thread for EVERY state?!
posted by phunniemee at 6:19 PM on February 9, 2015 [27 favorites]


Probate Judge Al Booth in Autauga County said his office will take applications for same sex marriages but won't issue licenses until he gets clarification.

"I have the man who runs this state's court system telling me not to issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples," Booth said. "I have the federal judiciary telling me I will issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

"I want to uphold my oath. But what law do I follow?" he said. "Which constitution do I uphold?"
Judge Booth, I know it's been awhile since you went to law school, but may I point you to the Article VI, Paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the United States, which provides in no uncertain terms:
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:20 PM on February 9, 2015 [34 favorites]


I feel like Roy Moore's behavior confirms all of my worst stereotypes about Alabama,

My understanding is that he was removed from office by other [Alabama] judges on ethical grounds stemming from his past hissy fit about the 10 Commandments, only to be reelected a few years later by [Alabama] voters because what-the-fuck.

I guess my rebuttal is self defeating. Your statement (and the unquoted part, thanks for that) stands uncontested.

But yea, the folks getting married, their support structure, and those defying the order staying said marriages, those are the ones I'm glad to see more and more of when I go home to visit. At least in my circles the old "well the blackbird can't lay with the bluebird, can it?" and homophobia mindset is, literally, dying out as folks age. Here's to hoping that our generations keep getting things right.

Oh, and Roll Tide!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:22 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


Meantime, slate.com is optimistic that SCOTUS is going to rule in favor of same-sex marriage this summer.

Just in time to save the last few states the moral, er political battles of going through these state-by-state court decisions. In some ways, I kind of wish SCOTUS only had to make the decision for a state or two, because it will show how far the majority of the country has come.
posted by filthy light thief at 6:23 PM on February 9, 2015


Booth was elected; cursory Googling doesn't indicate whether he's even walked past a law school, let alone graduated from one.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:23 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


YAY!

My parents were living in Anniston, AL and I had to tape the Ellen "coming out" episode and send it to them because the Birmingham affiliate refused to show it. SUCK IT BIRMINGHAM!
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 6:23 PM on February 9, 2015 [7 favorites]


Roll Pride!
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:24 PM on February 9, 2015 [86 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?
posted by holybagel at 6:24 PM on February 9, 2015


Roll Pride!

Things good bud? Give us the boots on the ground report! /callout
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:26 PM on February 9, 2015


Roll Pride!

Dear pb, I would like to favorite this comment again, please. I'm sure you can break metafilter's code for me. Thank you.
posted by phunniemee at 6:26 PM on February 9, 2015 [3 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Like in 1861?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:27 PM on February 9, 2015 [32 favorites]




A bit of context: Roy Moore used to be the Chief Justice of Alabama back in the early 2000s, when he ignited controversy by commissioning a monument of the Ten Commandments for a public judicial building. When he refused to comply with a federal order to remove the monument, he was removed from office for ethics violations.

He proceeded to make beaucoup bucks running the "non-profit" Foundation for Moral Law, an advocacy group for religion in public life that also happened use 83% of its donations to pay Moore's salary (over $400,000 a year, or 2.5 times his Chief Justice paycheck).

Unsatisfied with his limited influence, he ran again for the Chief Justice seat in 2012, just barely defeating appointed incumbent Chuck Malone in the primary (the same one that Rick Santorum won), and later defeating Democratic candidate Robert Vance, who outspent Moore and had the support of many Republicans in the state.

He's now using his regained CJ seat to advance his radical philosophy of church-state mingling and a George Wallace-esque stand for state's rights. (Also, I can't find it at the moment, but I seem to recall a story linked here recently about his pioneering use of rambling off-topic commentaries on tenuously related cases to try and give SCOTUS ammo to take down Roe v. Wade.)
posted by Rhaomi at 6:28 PM on February 9, 2015 [15 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Have you been to Alabama? They don't even allow bingo or a lottery because the devil will getcha.
posted by phunniemee at 6:29 PM on February 9, 2015 [2 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Um, what? Alabama did decide what it wanted. A judge ruled that what Alabama wanted is unconstitutional. So.. too bad for the haters, I guess. Poor little dears.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:29 PM on February 9, 2015 [19 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?
Well, they've got something of a track record with that, so.... no. Alabama can't decide what Alabama wants when they decide things that run contrary to the US Constitution or, you know, fundamental human rights.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:31 PM on February 9, 2015 [14 favorites]


For the record, here's what's left:

States with marriage bans
12 by Constitutional Amendment and State Law
Arkansas (2004, 1997), Georgia (2004, 1996), Kentucky (2004, 1998), Louisiana (2004, 1999), Michigan (2004, 1996), Mississippi (2004, 1997), Missouri (2004, 1996), North Dakota (2004, 1997), Ohio (2004, 2004), South Dakota (2006, 1996), Tennessee (2006, 1996), Texas (2005, 1997)

1 by Constitutional Amendment only
Nebraska (2000)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:34 PM on February 9, 2015


Can we please just quit the bullshit and get this approved in all 50?
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 6:34 PM on February 9, 2015 [3 favorites]


I'd be interested in hearing from any mefite lawyers about whether they think the ruling today from the Supremes is as predictive as the slate piece makes it out to be.
posted by rtha at 6:36 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


Steve Benen: Alabama judge: ignore federal courts on marriage
One local jurist, Washington County Judge Nick Wiliams, explained his refusal to marry gays couples this way: “I’m not worried about following the U.S. Constitution.” Take a moment to appreciate the fact that this comment came from a sitting judge.

If you find yourself thinking this morning about George Wallace, you’re certainly not alone. Indeed, the parallels are important: the last time officials in Alabama said their desire to discriminate outweighed federal court rulings, it didn’t turn out well.

That said, it’s equally important to note who is – and isn’t – filling Wallace’s shoes. The Birmingham News’ Charles J. Dean explained this morning that Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R) has decided not to read from Roy Moore’s script (thanks to my colleague Laura Conaway for the heads-up).
Moore’s actions came after Bentley refused more than once last week to fill Wallace’s shoes and take what would have been meaningless actions to try to block the federal court order. Bentley refused to become the next Alabama governor making a show of defying the law in front of TV cameras and in the process sending the message that our state is still intolerant and a lawless place for some of its citizens who happen to be different from the majority.

But what Bentley refused to do, Moore did do. He is trying to stand in the courthouse door as surely as Wallace stood in the schoolhouse door. Shame on him.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:36 PM on February 9, 2015 [5 favorites]


Can we please just quit the bullshit and get this approved in all 50?

June 2015 is, hopefully, when that will happen.

One local jurist, Washington County Judge Nick Wiliams, explained his refusal to marry gays couples this way: “I’m not worried about following the U.S. Constitution.”

I.. what?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:40 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

brb, nullifying mcdonald v. chicago
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:42 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


Congratulations couples, may you make Alabama your sweet home.
posted by jonmc at 6:43 PM on February 9, 2015


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Well, that's just it -- what does "Alabama" want? The gay couples there are part of the state as well, after all, and in questions of equal access to the law, the trend in U.S. jurisprudence for two centuries and change has been that simple majority rule is not considered a legitimate reflection or definition of "what people want." It's a basic feature of the United States' legal and constitutional system to avoid so-called "tyranny of the majority" for precisely the reason that 51% or even 81% of the people are not the entire people, and do not get to deny rights and forms of civic participation to their neighbors.
posted by kewb at 6:44 PM on February 9, 2015 [28 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Because Alabama wants slavery. Because Alabama wants segregated schools. Because Alabama wants poll taxes. Because Alabama wants 'literacy tests' for voters. Because Alabama wants the right to refuse service based on color of skin, and yes, sexual orientation.*


uncertain on what Alabama currently wants, going on want Alabama has wanted in the bast.
posted by el io at 6:52 PM on February 9, 2015 [21 favorites]




I'd be interested in hearing from any mefite lawyers about whether they think the ruling today from the Supremes is as predictive as the slate piece makes it out to be.

Inferring anything from the orders seems really sketchy to me--it seems like the stronger inference to draw would be from the progression of positive SCOTUS case results: Romer, Lawrence, Hollingsworth, Windsor, etc. Thomas and Scalia clearly think this is predictive, but Scalia has been saying at least since Lawrence that a ruling ensuring the constitutionality of marriage equality is inevitable, and he can't write a dissent without reminding us again and again that he's right (yay). So although I'd say that a ruling allowing the discrimination to continue would be unlikely, today's decision didn't really change my opinion of that. I think it just fits the narrative: we are all anticipating a pro-marriage equality ruling, so we take this as further evidence that one is coming. But, really, the S. Ct. does some wacky stuff sometimes and my take is that you can't read into orders like this one way or another.
posted by MoonOrb at 6:54 PM on February 9, 2015 [2 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Weeeell, part of it is that it's not actually just about the getting married bit. It's about being able to be married, and to have existing marriages recognized by the state.

I'm gay married in Texas, right? My wedding was in Boston because we really needed the legal stuff for immigration, but I live in Texas. On the federal level, I am legally married. (Which is great--federal legal benefits are why I got married in the first place!) On the state level, because Texas is an asshole state, I'm.... probably single? In some sort of weird limbo? I dunno, it's hard to tell, but I'm pretty sure I'm single.

This does actually cause me some problems in day-to-day life. For example, I had to deal with an insurance matter regarding payouts for a car accident I was in last year; it was important to sign those forms to know whether I'm legally married (in which case my spouse would also have to sign them) or legally single (in which case I can do it on my own). Or take health insurance. My employer only lets me offer my health insurance to married spouses that the state recognizes; I'm technically a state employee, so they pull this bullshit. So I can't put my partner on my health insurance.

I'm just very glad that Texas doesn't do income tax, or my taxes would be terrifying. Shit like that keeps cropping up, and it's this really exhausting strain. So for me, the important, exciting part of this isn't about whether I could go down to the courthouse and get married tomorrow--been there, done that, it was AWESOME. But right now, the important part for me is whether my marriage counts all the time or only just sometimes. This Schroedinger's married thing is really exhausting, and I'd like to be able to say "yes, this is my status" without having to figure out whether they're asking for state or federal reasons first.
posted by sciatrix at 6:55 PM on February 9, 2015 [39 favorites]


This is only very marginally relevant, but I love this story so much that I never miss an opportunity to post it: this Iowa couple got married this year after being together for 72 years.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:02 PM on February 9, 2015 [14 favorites]


I'm just very glad that Texas doesn't do income tax, or my taxes would be terrifying... This Schroedinger's married thing is really exhausting.

Preach it. I live in NC, she lives in TX (it's a long story, 14 months to go, woo!) and we're married here but not there and I'm terrified that something's going to happen to her and no one's going to let me make medical decisions (we're playing chicken with that, trying not to do the crazy expensive POA paperwork) unless she just so happens to get hit by a bus on VA property, in which case, we're married, even if the VA is in TX.

The taxes got turned over to a CPA this year, even with TX's lack of income tax.
posted by joycehealy at 7:04 PM on February 9, 2015


Oh, and Roll Tide!

Au contraire. Go (gay) Wave!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:06 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


I made a little gif to show the difference between this Valentine's day and last, in terms of marriage law.
posted by tavella at 7:08 PM on February 9, 2015 [7 favorites]


The taxes got turned over to a CPA this year, even with TX's lack of income tax.

Aw, man, I'm jealous--we seriously can't afford one, so I spent like six hours trying to puzzle out special snowflake international married-couple where one person doesn't actually live in the US and is in the process of immigrating filing jointly crap about a month ago. It would have been SO WORTH IT. If one of us had been in a state that does do income tax, I don't know what I would have done.
posted by sciatrix at 7:11 PM on February 9, 2015


To be fair, the CPA is her girlfriend, so we got lucky; I might've tried to hack through it myself otherwise. :) My cousin is doing the international spouse tax dance this year, and it sucks so hard. My sympathies. :/
posted by joycehealy at 7:14 PM on February 9, 2015


One more and it's practically a ratified amendment!
posted by halifix at 7:17 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


Have you been to Alabama? They don't even allow bingo or a lottery because the devil will getcha.

You can however buy a gallon of draft beer in a plastic milk jug at a gas station.
posted by dudemanlives at 7:30 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Roll Tide!

I think you meant GAY DAMN EAGLES!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:38 PM on February 9, 2015 [6 favorites]


Eyebrows McGee: "Oh, and Roll Tide!

I think you meant GAY DAMN EAGLES!
"

War Equal?
posted by Rhaomi at 7:46 PM on February 9, 2015 [7 favorites]


I think you meant GAY DAMN EAGLES!"

War Equal?


I can feel the heat off that burn from here.

Speaking of marriage issues, one day I hope to see an Alabama where AU fan can wed UA fanatic. One day....
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:53 PM on February 9, 2015 [4 favorites]


We were married in NY last year, and are expecting first child this year (thankfully me not carrying it). Can't imagine what this would be like in one of the holdout states. I mean, when the kid's born, I'm registered as a parent on the birth certificate here :) I think come this summer tho, it'll be better for y'all.
posted by triage_lazarus at 7:55 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Roll Pride!" should be a tag.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:03 PM on February 9, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yaaaayyyyyy! *Muppet flail*
posted by skycrashesdown at 8:29 PM on February 9, 2015 [3 favorites]




I saw that photo earlier, feckless, it's a friend of a friend. *Love.*
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:47 PM on February 9, 2015 [1 favorite]


The Wedding Week folks, noting that statutes require a $1 fee for the officiant, have a stack of singles available for couples to use, if desired. I'm supposed to be performing weddings all day Friday in Huntsville, and cannot wait.
posted by Doc Ezra at 9:53 PM on February 9, 2015 [12 favorites]


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Because what they want in unconstitutional.
posted by dirigibleman at 11:30 PM on February 9, 2015 [5 favorites]


A pity the degenerates like Moore are still fighting, but they simply don't have the support at the national level to win.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:18 AM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


I used to think there would be 50 of these posts...

Now I wonder if there will be a few more of these posts (which are always joyous), and then one supreme court decision that will be the last of these posts.

Either way, it makes me happy.

Any lawyers out there that can tell me what happens (from a legal perspective) when a state judge tells a federal judge to jump off a cliff? Is disbarment on the table?
posted by el io at 12:37 AM on February 10, 2015


Meanwhile, here in Indiana, the state legislature (backed by Governor Pence) has taken-up a proposed "Religious Liberty" bill that would allow businesses to refuse to do business with gay customers, based on the business owners' religious beliefs.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:56 AM on February 10, 2015


Why can't Alabama just decide what Alabama wants?

Because it can't be 1788 forever?
posted by dances with hamsters at 4:57 AM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, here in Indiana, the state legislature (backed by Governor Pence) has taken-up a proposed "Religious Liberty" bill that would

...consign the state to yet another round of expensive, futile lawsuits, since outright bans seem to be a dead letter at last.
posted by Gelatin at 5:44 AM on February 10, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yeah, Roll Pride is a pretty good tag, someone add that!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:57 AM on February 10, 2015


Howard Friedman - Religion Clause - "Interposition Ordered By Alabama Chief Justice On Same-Sex Marriage"
Interposition-- a doctrine rarely seen since the early days of the civil rights movement-- seems to be close to reappearing in Alabama's response to federal court same-sex marriage decisions. As previously reported, on Jan. 27 Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore sent a letter to Alabama Governor Robert Bentley urging defiance at least of lower federal court decisions validating same-sex marriage in the state.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:29 AM on February 10, 2015


I'm wondering which states will, in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling, declare independence and decide to shell a local army base.
posted by happyroach at 6:51 AM on February 10, 2015


> I'm wondering which states will, in the wake of the Supreme Court ruling, declare independence and decide to shell a local army base.

Probably none. But let's be honest, what we've seen in every step forward of the "gay agenda" is that the negative predictions have happened--but it wasn't us gays who perpetrated it. This is just a recent example.

We wanted marriage equality. We got it. And now marriage is over in some counties in Alabama--why? Because bigoted assholes who aren't gay are now trying to take it away from everyone.

So if any state does secede and shell a base, they'll claim that it was us, the gay bogeymans, that led to the collapse of 'Murrca, but it won't be. It'll be straight bigoted assholes doing the destroying, and trying to smear the queer, so to speak.

Fuck those guys.
posted by qcubed at 9:36 AM on February 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


the gay bogeymans

dot tumblr dot com
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:44 AM on February 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


Some local coverage today (warning, al.com comment threads make youtube seem reasonable):

Same-sex marriage in Alabama: The day after the ban ended, where do things stand?

Personally, I have never been more proud to be from Birmingham. Too much of our history is so ugly, so to be among the first to not only issue the licenses in the state, but to have probate judges eagerly perform the ceremonies is such an amazing thing. I have a cousin who works near the courthouse who described the atmosphere as "tailgating for marriage." So awesome.
posted by ndfine at 10:20 AM on February 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


[Comment removed. This is a topic with a long and complicated history and a lot of prior discussion on Metafilter; please try to avoid joining that discussion late with dismissals of the topic.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:39 AM on February 10, 2015


This might be a bit of a derail, but I'm not sure it warrants a FPP (maybe it does)... News today says that Obama has always been in favor of gay marriage.

I expect politicians to lie, honestly. And I support his (apparent) lies on this matter (not he would have been elected had he been truthful).

I'm not sure how I feel about the framing of the huffingtonpost piece though - he would have been 'throwing Obama under the bus' if he came out with this revelation before (either) election time. As it stands this disclosure helps Obama secure his place in the history books for always being on the right side of this matter (and making a savvy political decision to ensure he got a chance to fight the good fight).

I say this as someone with mixed feelings on Obama, not a cheerleader.
posted by el io at 11:53 AM on February 10, 2015


Obama has always been in favor of gay marriage

This is my shocked face.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:37 PM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


What a strange piece. Biden was for it in mid-2012, before Obama, at least publicly. I'm sure many politicians are privately in favor of legalizing drugs and sex workers, for instance, but publicly they effect new laws against those things, or defend existing ones — and, while good feelings are nice, isn't how the system is run all that really matters, in the end?
posted by a lungful of dragon at 12:38 PM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't think the point is that Obama deserves praise because he personally supported marriage equality, a lungful of dragon. The article claims that Axelrod is throwing Obama under the bus by telling people that he was cynically lying when he claimed to be personally opposed to it. Axelrod's revelations make Obama look worse, not better.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:43 PM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


One could argue that said cynicism is realpolitik at work, and realizing that in order to make the needed changes he had to pretend he didn't want to. Which is... exactly politics as usual on every single part of the spectrum, so I'm kind of baffled as to how this 'throws Obama under the bus' in any way.

I mean dear god, a politician? Lied? In order to get elected?

Clinton may or may not have won election(s) against McCain and Romney (I strongly suspect 'not,' honestly), and I seriously doubt that she would have been net-better than Obama.

So... ho hum. Someone lied to gain the most powerful political office in the world, and then did some good things when walking back that lie.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:51 PM on February 10, 2015 [3 favorites]


ndfine: "Some local coverage today (warning, al.com comment threads make youtube seem reasonable):"

Why do folks keep saying this? I've seen a lot of al.com stories over the last couple of weeks on this topic, and not only has the editorial tone been clearly supportive of equal marriage, but the comments have been surprisingly reasonable, like 70-30 for and against. I don't know if it's due to heavy moderation or what, but while there's a diversity of opinion, the anti-gay comments aren't as crude and nasty as they are elsewhere.
posted by Rhaomi at 1:06 PM on February 10, 2015


I don't buy the under the bus concept at all regarding Axelrod revealing Obama's same sex marriage views. Seems like a complete win, as the outcry only comes from the same usual suspects. The right gets to scream another thing they don't like about a guy who doesn't have to ever run for office again, and they're screaming about same sex marriage, a topic that now has majority support.

Why do folks keep saying this? I've seen a lot of al.com stories over the last couple of weeks on this topic, and not only has the editorial tone been clearly supportive of equal marriage, but the comments have been surprisingly reasonable, like 70-30 for and against.

I think the editorial coverage has been great, and to hear it's actually a 70/30 split in the comments is encouraging. I've been burned too many times in the past with comment-reading-regret at al.com as I've never seen it be anything but toxic.
posted by ndfine at 1:12 PM on February 10, 2015


Sarah Posner - "Close Encounters With Roy Moore"
posted by audi alteram partem at 3:03 PM on February 10, 2015


and we're married here but not there and I'm terrified that something's going to happen to her and no one's going to let me make medical decisions (we're playing chicken with that, trying not to do the crazy expensive POA paperwork)

I don't know if the situation in those states is different, but doing medical POA is free in Colorado. I just went through getting medical POA for my partner recently with the birth of our daughter (we're a het unmarried couple); you just download a form off the web, and sign it in the presence of witnesses. You can optionally get it notarized, but that's not a requirement for it to be operative in CO. My understanding is that this document will still have standing in other states, to greater or lesser degrees (and if you're operating in multiple states, I would at least go to the trouble of getting it notarized). No lawyers involved, no fees other than the $15 to get the document notarized. The form we used also had additional space for backup persons (e.g. a sister or friend in case you were both in a car crash together) to have the medical POA, and there are longer forms where you can fill out your preferences for life-sustaining procedures, artificial nutrition etc. I strongly recommend you look into doing this for your own state(s), it is a damn sight better than having no documents available at all. In your case, I would do it for both states (and maybe any states you regularly drive through!)

Here's some example docs for Colorado: 1 (pdf), 2 (Kaiser, pdf)

Interestingly, and I don't know if this is unique, we'd heard this from married friends of ours (the wife was undergoing chemo), but: In Colorado, no one is automatically authorized to make healthcare decisions for another adult–not spouses, adult children, other family members, nor physicians.
posted by amorphatist at 4:54 PM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


(Also, I can't find it at the moment, but I seem to recall a story linked here recently about his pioneering use of rambling off-topic commentaries on tenuously related cases to try and give SCOTUS ammo to take down Roe v. Wade.)
That was Roy Moore's buddy Tom Parker, currently an associate justice on the Alabama Supreme Court, who also in a judicial opinion complained that the unconstitutional doctrine of judicial review from Marbury v Madison (1802) was causing a "constitutional crisis."

My understanding is that this document will still have standing in other states, to greater or lesser degrees (and if you're operating in multiple states, I would at least go to the trouble of getting it notarized).

One reason that the plaintiffs in Strawser v Strange sued Alabama is that a hospital wouldn't honor their health care power of attorney because they're not married.
posted by fogovonslack at 5:06 PM on February 10, 2015 [1 favorite]


One reason that the plaintiffs in Strawser v Strange sued Alabama is that a hospital wouldn't honor their health care power of attorney because they're not married.

That's really fucked up. I mean, you should be able give your medical power of attorney to the postman if you want.
posted by amorphatist at 5:09 PM on February 10, 2015 [4 favorites]


Gay marriage is legal in all but 13 states.

Never thought I'd be saying that so soon....



Been a long time comin', and it won't be over till it's over!
posted by BlueHorse at 6:00 PM on February 10, 2015 [2 favorites]


Thanks, fogovonslack -- this is the post I was thinking of.
posted by Rhaomi at 11:01 PM on February 10, 2015


Meanwhile, in North Carolina:
Four months after gay marriage became legal most voters in the state don't think it's proven to be a very big deal. 70% either say it's had a positive impact on their lives or no impact at all, compared to just 30% who claim it's had a negative impact on them. Even among Republican voters in the state 53% grant that legalized gay marriage has not been a big deal.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:28 AM on February 11, 2015 [2 favorites]




Four months after gay marriage became legal most voters in the state don't think it's proven to be a very big deal. 70% either say it's had a positive impact on their lives or no impact at all, compared to just 30% who claim it's had a negative impact on them. Even among Republican voters in the state 53% grant that legalized gay marriage has not been a big deal.

I have to say, this has been my experience. I teach at a school that was already pretty queer friendly anyhow, but since we've been legal, it's become so much of a non-issue, it's been startling. My students are just like "ok, wife, whatevs." The AAA guy, the Delta reservation person, waitstaff, my dog boarders - no one seems to care. (My dog boarder was just like "great, let's get your name and number into the system in case something happens." I was like "I will keep you.") A lot of this is a function of where I live, but still...
posted by joycehealy at 1:22 PM on February 11, 2015


Here's an oped in the NY Times by a couple that taught me a fair bit about organic farming and are hella good people. The house they mention in the peice is an tire/earth-rammedearth-earthship that they built over the course of a few years and is, by far, the coolest home I've every been in. Namedrop for their nonprofit (not marriage equality related) here and at the end of the article.

I wish them well. I need to drop them a line to remind them to send me an invitation so that I can send them a card congratulating them when they finally tie the knot.

"And after that, who knows? We may even get married. But that is our decision to make, not someone else’s. We feel it is our duty, as good citizens of Alabama, to stand up now. Suddenly, the Alabama state motto applies to us: “We Dare Defend Our Rights.”"

posted by RolandOfEld at 1:48 PM on February 11, 2015


Also, at the risk of stating the obvious, the 30% of North Carolinians who claim that SSM has had a negative impact on them are lying liars who like to tell lies. They haven't lost any rights, they're not suffering damage based on their belief system, and they're not being discriminated against. The only freedom they lost is to have the state be hateful and discriminatory on their behalf.

And ultimately, that is why (parts of) Alabama don't get to decide on what (other parts of) Alabama wants. Same as when Alabama decided they wanted being gay, interracial marriage, the ability to deny goods and services based on skin color, and the right to call other humans their property to be what Alabama wants. It's also why Moore deserves to go down in history as being on the side of hate.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:46 PM on February 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


That's the same link I posted.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:21 PM on February 11, 2015


We should put a little gold star in your profile for that!
posted by MoonOrb at 3:53 PM on February 11, 2015 [1 favorite]


...70% either say it's had a positive impact on their lives or no impact at all, compared to just 30% who claim it's had a negative impact on them.

Apparently these fuckhats are in the 30%.
posted by marxchivist at 6:26 AM on February 12, 2015




German Lopez: Alabama used the states' right argument to ban marriages before — for interracial couples
In 2000, the state became the last to officially remove its interracial marriage ban from the books. The law was supposed to be unenforceable by then, thanks to the Supreme Court decision in Loving v. Virginia. But some of Alabama's probate judges still reportedly refused to grant marriage licenses to interracial couples in 1999, and nearly 41 percent of the state's electorate voted to keep the ban.

In 2006, roughly 81 percent of the state's population voted for a constitutional amendment to define marriage as a "unique relationship between a man and a woman." Moore cited the overwhelming consensus in his CNN interview as evidence his state doesn't want to legalize same-sex marriage. (A 2014 Public Religion Research Institute survey found 59 percent of Alabamians still opposed marriage equality.)

But the electorate's opinion isn't the debate here. The point of the 14th Amendment is to prohibit discrimination — even if it's popular among the electorate or legislature. Part of the courts' job is to keep laws in line with the US Constitution. That's what US District Court Judge Callie Granade tried to do when she ruled Alabama's same-sex marriage ban was unconstitutional.

Maybe same-sex marriage isn't popular in Alabama today. Maybe interracial marriage wasn't popular there in 1990. To the courts, that's not supposed to matter: if a law violates the 14th Amendment, it's unconstitutional and must be struck down.
posted by zombieflanders at 6:39 AM on February 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


In defiant ruling, Alabama Supreme Court stops same-sex marriage in state.

Alabama, really? You're making yourself look bad again.
posted by PearlRose at 7:25 AM on March 4, 2015


I don't even understand the legal basis by which the state supreme court is overturning the federal ruling.
posted by schmod at 8:04 AM on March 5, 2015


I don't even understand the legal basis by which the state supreme court is overturning the federal ruling.

I don't think they do either.
posted by drezdn at 8:06 AM on March 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


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