Probiotics and Allergies
May 11, 2015 1:24 PM Subscribe
Probiotics may change the balance of bacteria in the intestines in a way that could protect the immune system from flaring up in response to pollens and other allergens, which may help reduce allergy symptoms.
Most participants who took either a probiotics supplement or ate probiotic-rich foods improved their allergy symptoms and overall quality of life. It's unlikely they would replace standard medical treatments, says Justin Turner, lead researcher of a new study reviewing 23 trials.
The paper says, "Probiotics appear to have beneficial effects in a number of inflammatory and immunologic diseases. The current systematic review suggests that they may be similarly effective in AR [allergic rhinitis], though the mechanism and duration of this effect remains unclear. Future studies will need to address the limitations of randomized trials to date, specifically the variability in study design and probiotic formulations, both of which make comparison between individual studies difficult. Although the use of probiotics as a standalone therapy cannot be advised at this point, they may ultimately prove to be an effective adjuvant therapy for the treatment of recalcitrant AR in select populations."
Most participants who took either a probiotics supplement or ate probiotic-rich foods improved their allergy symptoms and overall quality of life. It's unlikely they would replace standard medical treatments, says Justin Turner, lead researcher of a new study reviewing 23 trials.
The paper says, "Probiotics appear to have beneficial effects in a number of inflammatory and immunologic diseases. The current systematic review suggests that they may be similarly effective in AR [allergic rhinitis], though the mechanism and duration of this effect remains unclear. Future studies will need to address the limitations of randomized trials to date, specifically the variability in study design and probiotic formulations, both of which make comparison between individual studies difficult. Although the use of probiotics as a standalone therapy cannot be advised at this point, they may ultimately prove to be an effective adjuvant therapy for the treatment of recalcitrant AR in select populations."
Anecdotally, even my gastroenterologist suggested probiotics for inflammatory bowel disease, an autoimmune disorder. He's a great guy, but he's not on the cutting edge of anything, so if he suggested probiotics, they must be well proven (I of course was already taking them).
posted by janey47 at 1:30 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by janey47 at 1:30 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
My kids' pediatrician mentioned probiotics at the boys' annual physicals last month. Not that it is a guaranteed fix, but more as "it can't hurt and I keep hearing about how it's probably good." They both have allergies and lousy sinuses, so we will take anything we can get. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 1:36 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by wenestvedt at 1:36 PM on May 11, 2015
But because the studies used different strains of live bacteria, different dosages and different probiotic supplement formulations over different periods of time, it is difficult to make any formal recommendations about probiotic use, bacterial strains or length of treatment that may benefit people with seasonal allergies, Turner said.
BLAH. I just want to know what to do to make it stop! Stupid pollen with its stupid floating around in the stupid air.
posted by erratic meatsack at 1:36 PM on May 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
BLAH. I just want to know what to do to make it stop! Stupid pollen with its stupid floating around in the stupid air.
posted by erratic meatsack at 1:36 PM on May 11, 2015 [13 favorites]
I've already killed an entire box of Kleenex today so if anyone has some recs, I'm all ears. (But speak up, please -- those are a bit clogged, too.)
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:41 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:41 PM on May 11, 2015
I really feel like, in 100-odd years when we have the human biome more fully figured out, people will look back at our medical practices now and laugh their asses off, and/or pity us extravagantly.
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:45 PM on May 11, 2015 [27 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 1:45 PM on May 11, 2015 [27 favorites]
Well, since we supposedly have more non-human cells in our bodies than human cells -- is this true or urban legend? -- it only makes sense that the type and health of those cells will directly impact our own health.
posted by PigAlien at 1:48 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by PigAlien at 1:48 PM on May 11, 2015
Anecdotally, even my gastroenterologist suggested probiotics for inflammatory bowel disease, an autoimmune disorder. He's a great guy, but he's not on the cutting edge of anything, so if he suggested probiotics, they must be well proven (I of course was already taking them).
I started taking acidophilus capsules a couple of months ago (I read that probiotic drinks aren't that potent) and I feel like I've been given a new gut. I'd upload a photo of the evidence but I wouldn't want to put anyone off their dinner.
I don't have to take them all that regularly either. Had one everyday for the first week and now just once in a while when I feel it might be necessary.
posted by popcassady at 1:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I started taking acidophilus capsules a couple of months ago (I read that probiotic drinks aren't that potent) and I feel like I've been given a new gut. I'd upload a photo of the evidence but I wouldn't want to put anyone off their dinner.
I don't have to take them all that regularly either. Had one everyday for the first week and now just once in a while when I feel it might be necessary.
posted by popcassady at 1:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
(Friend watches your face swell up after eating a PBJ sandwich) "I hear probiotics are great for allergies"
(Same friend hands you your cane, so you can walk across the room) "Have you tried turmeric? It's all the rage for inflammation!"
I like having improv comedians as friends, laughing makes this shit easier
posted by jake at 1:50 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Same friend hands you your cane, so you can walk across the room) "Have you tried turmeric? It's all the rage for inflammation!"
I like having improv comedians as friends, laughing makes this shit easier
posted by jake at 1:50 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I started taking acidophilus capsules (I read that probiotic drinks aren't that potent) and I feel like I've been given a new gut. I'd upload a photo of the evidence but I wouldn't want to put anyone off their dinner.
I'm not sure if you're telling us this is a good thing or a bad thing.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:50 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure if you're telling us this is a good thing or a bad thing.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 1:50 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's a lot of weasel word qualifiers.
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:51 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:51 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is pretty old news, with some newer research to confirm what has long been known. A client of mine published a book on the topic almost a decade ago: The Probiotics Revolution.
posted by twsf at 1:52 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by twsf at 1:52 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
They won't be laughing at us in one hundred years. They'll still be laughing at 19th century quackery.
Or maybe they'll all be dead after the Dino-Bacterial uprising, the logical conclusion of genetic engineering and homeopathy run amok.
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:55 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or maybe they'll all be dead after the Dino-Bacterial uprising, the logical conclusion of genetic engineering and homeopathy run amok.
posted by mccarty.tim at 1:55 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
It is true that most of the cells in your body are bacteria in your gut. It's because bacteria are really tiny cells compared with yours.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:58 PM on May 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:58 PM on May 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
mccarty.tim: "That's a lot of weasel word qualifiers.
"
Soon buzzfeed will be telling us about the wonders of eating a weasel.
posted by boo_radley at 2:01 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
"
Soon buzzfeed will be telling us about the wonders of eating a weasel.
posted by boo_radley at 2:01 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, since we supposedly have more non-human cells in our bodies than human cells -- is this true or urban legend?
It's true for me, but then regularly bathing in the Blood of the Innocent has some complex side effects.
On the upside, I'm only allergic to the light of the sun and holy items.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:10 PM on May 11, 2015 [18 favorites]
It's true for me, but then regularly bathing in the Blood of the Innocent has some complex side effects.
On the upside, I'm only allergic to the light of the sun and holy items.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:10 PM on May 11, 2015 [18 favorites]
twsf: “This is pretty old news, with some newer research to confirm what has long been known.”
"Confirming" what has "long been known"? Nonsense. I'm thinking maybe your values for "confirm" and "known" need some calibration, because they're way off. This sounds like a pretty terrible meta-study by all accounts; if they feel the need to add a whole paragraph explaining that the experimental conditions were different, so maybe it means nothing after all in the end, then that bodes pretty poorly for repeatability or significance.
There's money in the word "pro-biotics." That's the only reason for this. Good scientists don't sit around thinking "hey, here are a bunch of completely different studies, let's glom them all together to form a non-cohesive blob!" The sad thing here is – it's likely some probiotics are worthwhile and beneficial; but we're so awash in crackpot theories and attempts to monetize the science that it's been extraordinarily difficult thus far to sort out the silly ridiculous blather from the actual evidence.
Articles like this sure aren't helping.
posted by koeselitz at 2:13 PM on May 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
"Confirming" what has "long been known"? Nonsense. I'm thinking maybe your values for "confirm" and "known" need some calibration, because they're way off. This sounds like a pretty terrible meta-study by all accounts; if they feel the need to add a whole paragraph explaining that the experimental conditions were different, so maybe it means nothing after all in the end, then that bodes pretty poorly for repeatability or significance.
There's money in the word "pro-biotics." That's the only reason for this. Good scientists don't sit around thinking "hey, here are a bunch of completely different studies, let's glom them all together to form a non-cohesive blob!" The sad thing here is – it's likely some probiotics are worthwhile and beneficial; but we're so awash in crackpot theories and attempts to monetize the science that it's been extraordinarily difficult thus far to sort out the silly ridiculous blather from the actual evidence.
Articles like this sure aren't helping.
posted by koeselitz at 2:13 PM on May 11, 2015 [7 favorites]
OK, koeselitz, I'll happily punt on any comments about the study but stand by the book, which is well worth reading for its defensible science and useful information.
posted by twsf at 2:15 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by twsf at 2:15 PM on May 11, 2015
Sorry, koeselitz, but it's pretty well scientifically established that fecal matter transplants can save lives. That's just a very advanced form of pro-biotics.
Yes, bacteria are much smaller than our own cells, but then minute amounts of ricin can kill a grown adult, so size isn't everything. Well, of course, microscopic virii can kill too, Ebola being a good case in point.
posted by PigAlien at 2:17 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes, bacteria are much smaller than our own cells, but then minute amounts of ricin can kill a grown adult, so size isn't everything. Well, of course, microscopic virii can kill too, Ebola being a good case in point.
posted by PigAlien at 2:17 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Actual concept of "probiotics": Is it more functional to science or business?, World Journal of Gastroenterology
posted by XMLicious at 2:20 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 2:20 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
There's no evidence that they do anything much other that let Activia et al sell overpriced yoghurt.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:24 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:24 PM on May 11, 2015
If I could tame my allergies and asthma with daily acidophilus capsules I'd be all over it. Somehow that just seems to good to be true, so I'm stuck with my expensive asthma and allergy meds until they cryogenically freeze me and discover a way to perform a mild curative tweak to my biome in 100 years.
posted by blucevalo at 2:24 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by blucevalo at 2:24 PM on May 11, 2015
There's no evidence that they do anything much other that let Activia et al sell overpriced yoghurt.
Don't forget Big Kimchi, Big Sauerkraut, and Big Pickle.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:30 PM on May 11, 2015 [22 favorites]
Don't forget Big Kimchi, Big Sauerkraut, and Big Pickle.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:30 PM on May 11, 2015 [22 favorites]
koeselitz: The paper doesn't seem execrable. I would characterize its efforts to assess publication bias as alright, but not exceptional (funnel plot, begg test, egger test, begg test is inappropriate here because only 23 studies but egger test is alright and you get a lot of false positives). They do vociferate on the fact that the literature is kind of shit (of the 153 trials looked at, they chose 23 because lots were not proper randomized clinical trials with a good randomization method, good control method, etc etc etc).
Repeatability for metanalysis is generally shit, because they take so much damn time mostly and the searches vary radically in the ability to actually get all of a published literature. One critique they make is of the probiotic term itself, because different strains of bacteria have, of course, different effects. And the results reported in the study itself are also not so uniformly simple: they say that it's not compatible with the data to say that IgE is significantly affected by probiotic treatment of any strain, for example. And this whole damn thing doesn't say shit about B. animalis (in Activia), for example.
posted by curuinor at 2:34 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
Repeatability for metanalysis is generally shit, because they take so much damn time mostly and the searches vary radically in the ability to actually get all of a published literature. One critique they make is of the probiotic term itself, because different strains of bacteria have, of course, different effects. And the results reported in the study itself are also not so uniformly simple: they say that it's not compatible with the data to say that IgE is significantly affected by probiotic treatment of any strain, for example. And this whole damn thing doesn't say shit about B. animalis (in Activia), for example.
posted by curuinor at 2:34 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
The other thing that meta-analyses do that individual studies do less is to fiddle about with effect sizes. The fact that the effect sizes on this stuff are not big enough to go and replace your claritin or whatever is now better established than before.
posted by curuinor at 2:40 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by curuinor at 2:40 PM on May 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
It doesn't make any sense to combine all the different species of purportedly probiotic bacteria together and make the same claims for all of them.
I've tried probiotics, generally for a month at a time, but I've never been able to tell any difference in my digestion, my mood, my fatigue, or my allergies. I've tried different brands and made sure they were all sold at the appropriate refrigerated temperature. The only thing that they ever worked for, for me, was when I used them topically to prevent the vaginal yeast infection that would otherwise result from taking antibiotics.
posted by artistic verisimilitude at 2:46 PM on May 11, 2015
I've tried probiotics, generally for a month at a time, but I've never been able to tell any difference in my digestion, my mood, my fatigue, or my allergies. I've tried different brands and made sure they were all sold at the appropriate refrigerated temperature. The only thing that they ever worked for, for me, was when I used them topically to prevent the vaginal yeast infection that would otherwise result from taking antibiotics.
posted by artistic verisimilitude at 2:46 PM on May 11, 2015
I really feel like, in 100-odd years when we have the human biome more fully figured out, people will look back at our medical practices now and laugh their asses off, and/or pity us extravagantly.
They'll be appalled at our barbarity, then they'll give Chekov some Activia.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 2:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
They'll be appalled at our barbarity, then they'll give Chekov some Activia.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 2:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Soon buzzfeed will be telling us about the wonders of eating a weasel.
Hate to break it to you, boo, but for probiotic purposes, the weasel goes in the out door. Weasels: putting the "probe" in probiotics since 2005
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
Hate to break it to you, boo, but for probiotic purposes, the weasel goes in the out door. Weasels: putting the "probe" in probiotics since 2005
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:49 PM on May 11, 2015 [12 favorites]
I remember being informed that only probiotics that are stored cold are worth a damn, but there are so many different kinds just sitting out on the room temperature shelves at the chemist, and they're mostly just as expensive. Has something changed or should we still only be using the refrigerated stuff?
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:51 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:51 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've already killed an entire box of Kleenex today so if anyone has some recs, I'm all ears
Burning Angel, or Proxy Paige's website. Wait, what are you asking?
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:53 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Burning Angel, or Proxy Paige's website. Wait, what are you asking?
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:53 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Coating your face in peanut butter also works against pollen allergies and the mechanism for this is well understood. Dogs will like all the peanut butter off your face and all the allergens that stuck to it.
posted by srboisvert at 3:07 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by srboisvert at 3:07 PM on May 11, 2015
It's Raining Florence Henderson: "Weasels: putting the "probe" in probiotics since 2005"
Weasels ripped my flesh! Rzzzzz!
posted by boo_radley at 3:14 PM on May 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
Weasels ripped my flesh! Rzzzzz!
posted by boo_radley at 3:14 PM on May 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
I assume they were sure of what they were giving people in these studies, but haven't we already been told that much of the shit sold in the vitamin aisle is not what it says on the tin? I am happy to consider probiotics, or fish oil, or what have you, as a treatment for things, but since it's largely unregulated and untested, for all I know we're buying gelatin capsules stuffed with sawdust.
posted by emjaybee at 3:31 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by emjaybee at 3:31 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
In a small study of one, after two runs of Augmentin with Clavulate in the four corners area, for upper respiratory illness, then Strep, I bought a month's supply of Rite Aid's broad spectrum generic probiotic, and I have not been ill, since April, 2013. I have a better tolerance for foods, though my tolerances were OK anyway, but I experience allergies only vaguely anymore. Small study of one, not a miracle cure, but a net improvement. I recommend a broad probiotic anytime one has to take antibiotics. That's just my experience.
posted by Oyéah at 3:35 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 3:35 PM on May 11, 2015
Don't forget...Big Pickle.
Seen it.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 3:48 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Seen it.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 3:48 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hate to break it to you, boo, but for probiotic purposes, the weasel goes in the out door. Weasels: putting the "probe" in probiotics since 2005
Also, it's a garden weasel. Using live weasels would be cruel.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:02 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, it's a garden weasel. Using live weasels would be cruel.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:02 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately, although the authors don't make this clear, this is a negative study.
Their bold conclusion is probiotics "may be beneficial" in improving symptoms and quality of life.
Of course, if this statement is true, it also logically simultaneously implies they "may not be beneficial" in improving symptoms and quality of life.
Specifically, the symptom score was not significantly different. And while the quality of life score was statistically significantly improved, the improvement is of such a minuscule size (2 points on a 168 point scale) that it is not clinically significant. It's like saying I have a weight loss drug that is proven to cause statistically significant weight loss, p<0.0000001. But the weight loss it causes is 1 gram. Who cares. It's not a difference a patient would notice.
As for the theory that it may help and certainly can't hurt... hoo boy, we've been down that road before. Multivitamins were the latest. Turns out, yup, they can hurt.
Not to mention when I checked my drug store, a container of probiotics was like $40 and you have to take them on an ongoing basis.
Not to say that probiotics aren't helpful for some conditions (as are multivits), just saying that this is a negative meta-analysis.
posted by kevinsp8 at 4:28 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Their bold conclusion is probiotics "may be beneficial" in improving symptoms and quality of life.
Of course, if this statement is true, it also logically simultaneously implies they "may not be beneficial" in improving symptoms and quality of life.
Specifically, the symptom score was not significantly different. And while the quality of life score was statistically significantly improved, the improvement is of such a minuscule size (2 points on a 168 point scale) that it is not clinically significant. It's like saying I have a weight loss drug that is proven to cause statistically significant weight loss, p<0.0000001. But the weight loss it causes is 1 gram. Who cares. It's not a difference a patient would notice.
As for the theory that it may help and certainly can't hurt... hoo boy, we've been down that road before. Multivitamins were the latest. Turns out, yup, they can hurt.
Not to mention when I checked my drug store, a container of probiotics was like $40 and you have to take them on an ongoing basis.
Not to say that probiotics aren't helpful for some conditions (as are multivits), just saying that this is a negative meta-analysis.
posted by kevinsp8 at 4:28 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
You know, without even clicking the links i'm willing to invest a lot of truth in the tag line at least. I had Norovirus a little over a month ago and basically had everything that was in my body come out of my body in every way that things in your body can come out. Which means i basically couldn't eat for a few days and had to slowly get my digestive system back up and running. So basically the BRAT diet: banana, rice, applesauce, toast, but in my case just bread; untoasted.
two thoughts: I think i've now suddenly developed, or at least identified a gluten sensitivity that wash;t there before. AND, now that everything is working again I've never felt better. Actually, i feel better mentally and physically than i've felt in years. Now that i can eat, i only want healthy foods, beans, greens, whole grains, the whole she bang. i didn't eat that badly before but now i really crave whole foods. My ability to concentrate is through the roof and i i can READ again! Whole books! Not just web surfing. Usually at this time of year I'd have my annual cancer, mono, hepatitis scare because i always forget that my seasonal allergies rarely make me sneeze etc. but instead sap every bit of energy that i have and leave me exhausted and disoriented. This year; not so much.
So, for those reading this, if you want to get back a little youth and mental stamina and nix your allergies a bit, I'm pretty sure Carnival Cruises is running some kind or Summer Special right now.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 4:42 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
two thoughts: I think i've now suddenly developed, or at least identified a gluten sensitivity that wash;t there before. AND, now that everything is working again I've never felt better. Actually, i feel better mentally and physically than i've felt in years. Now that i can eat, i only want healthy foods, beans, greens, whole grains, the whole she bang. i didn't eat that badly before but now i really crave whole foods. My ability to concentrate is through the roof and i i can READ again! Whole books! Not just web surfing. Usually at this time of year I'd have my annual cancer, mono, hepatitis scare because i always forget that my seasonal allergies rarely make me sneeze etc. but instead sap every bit of energy that i have and leave me exhausted and disoriented. This year; not so much.
So, for those reading this, if you want to get back a little youth and mental stamina and nix your allergies a bit, I'm pretty sure Carnival Cruises is running some kind or Summer Special right now.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 4:42 PM on May 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Studies have shown that Carnival Cruises cause clinically significant increases in Quality of Life scores. Now if only Medicare would cover them...
posted by kevinsp8 at 4:56 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinsp8 at 4:56 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
BLAH. I just want to know what to do to make it stop! Stupid pollen with its stupid floating around in the stupid air.
I have maximum reaction to a number of grasses and rag weed. Fortunately, just getting immunization shots before the season starts for 5 consecutive years has pretty much stopped all but the most mild reactions. They worked wonders each time you take them and I was told after 5 years of immunization, I didn't have to get any more shots. I have no idea what sort of pollens shots do and don't exist for however. Also allergic to oak and cat dander, some molds, etc but only had to get shots for the grass and rag weed allergies. Without them sneezing for half an hour, with blood, frequently throughout the day, was very unpleasant.
posted by juiceCake at 4:57 PM on May 11, 2015
I have maximum reaction to a number of grasses and rag weed. Fortunately, just getting immunization shots before the season starts for 5 consecutive years has pretty much stopped all but the most mild reactions. They worked wonders each time you take them and I was told after 5 years of immunization, I didn't have to get any more shots. I have no idea what sort of pollens shots do and don't exist for however. Also allergic to oak and cat dander, some molds, etc but only had to get shots for the grass and rag weed allergies. Without them sneezing for half an hour, with blood, frequently throughout the day, was very unpleasant.
posted by juiceCake at 4:57 PM on May 11, 2015
I remember being informed that only probiotics that are stored cold are worth a damn, but there are so many different kinds just sitting out on the room temperature shelves at the chemist, and they're mostly just as expensive. Has something changed or should we still only be using the refrigerated stuff?
I dunno for sure, and anecdotes are not data, but for myself, I started taking a brand called Culturelle about 3 months ago, which is sold room temperature on the shelves in drugstores (I buy it at Target). I've had some IBS issues for a few years and this has made a noticeable difference to me.
I have a theory that my digestive issues may date back to the early 2000s when I had a few bouts of really bad adult acne, and the docs had me taking an antibiotic for quite a while.
I think probiotics are an emerging field, and hopefully the future will hold more discoveries that will help us learn how to target these better for a particular person's issues.
posted by dnash at 5:29 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I dunno for sure, and anecdotes are not data, but for myself, I started taking a brand called Culturelle about 3 months ago, which is sold room temperature on the shelves in drugstores (I buy it at Target). I've had some IBS issues for a few years and this has made a noticeable difference to me.
I have a theory that my digestive issues may date back to the early 2000s when I had a few bouts of really bad adult acne, and the docs had me taking an antibiotic for quite a while.
I think probiotics are an emerging field, and hopefully the future will hold more discoveries that will help us learn how to target these better for a particular person's issues.
posted by dnash at 5:29 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
gosh, i might be more allergied out than i thought. after rereading my post above i realize i forgot about my original point. which was this. now that my body is up and running again i think that my immune system as well as my gut flora got a full reset. i think stripping everything away and starting again with the types of foods that let a diverse blend of gut bacteria thrive it's kind of given me a new lease on life. seriously, i was really depressed before and didn't really realize how badly til now. the allergy thing is still here but nowhere near as severe as usual and it's basically been raining pollen for weeks now in NYC. i think that over the years we'll really find how much those little buggers influence us. they are basically parasites, or symbiotes, although beneficial ones, and what's good for us is good for them and vice versa.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 6:15 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 6:15 PM on May 11, 2015
Hah! Before reading this thread, I drank a large glass of over-fermented kefir, ate a plate of kimchi, and had a dollop of fermented tofu in my rice porridge. Out-probiotic THAT!
posted by pravit at 7:03 PM on May 11, 2015
posted by pravit at 7:03 PM on May 11, 2015
I really wish it was easier to separate probiotics from woo. You very VERY quickly get in to the "clean living" territory of "omg fermented foods!" and seriously woo-y stuff.
two thoughts: I think i've now suddenly developed, or at least identified a gluten sensitivity that wash;t there before.
I had a similar weird experience to this in high school. I got really sick like that, and then afterwards and ever since there's just an enormous list of food, and not any standard easy things like wheat gluten or dairy or whatever i can easily avoid, that just given me thunderous amazing uncomfortable gas. Room clearing, relationship destroying gas. And it waxes and wanes. Sometimes i can eat certain things, sometimes i cant.
My uneducated theory is that some bacteria that was supposed to be in there got flushed out/died off/was dominated by something else and it's just been warring factions ever since... but who knows.
The food cravings changing thing has happened to my partner several times when she got really devastatingly bedbound sick and recovered too. There's stuff she used to love that's just disgusting now, and it shifted her towards eating mostly veggies.
Bodies are weird. I too am waiting to see what they figure out when they nail it all down in 20/50/100 years. I bet there's going to be an app that just tells you what you should eat that day to keep it all optimal, or that somethings getting way too low and you need to pay $0.99 in bitcoins so your nanobots can print more of that bacteria...
posted by emptythought at 7:03 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
two thoughts: I think i've now suddenly developed, or at least identified a gluten sensitivity that wash;t there before.
I had a similar weird experience to this in high school. I got really sick like that, and then afterwards and ever since there's just an enormous list of food, and not any standard easy things like wheat gluten or dairy or whatever i can easily avoid, that just given me thunderous amazing uncomfortable gas. Room clearing, relationship destroying gas. And it waxes and wanes. Sometimes i can eat certain things, sometimes i cant.
My uneducated theory is that some bacteria that was supposed to be in there got flushed out/died off/was dominated by something else and it's just been warring factions ever since... but who knows.
The food cravings changing thing has happened to my partner several times when she got really devastatingly bedbound sick and recovered too. There's stuff she used to love that's just disgusting now, and it shifted her towards eating mostly veggies.
Bodies are weird. I too am waiting to see what they figure out when they nail it all down in 20/50/100 years. I bet there's going to be an app that just tells you what you should eat that day to keep it all optimal, or that somethings getting way too low and you need to pay $0.99 in bitcoins so your nanobots can print more of that bacteria...
posted by emptythought at 7:03 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Hah! Before reading this thread, I drank a large glass of over-fermented kefir, ate a plate of kimchi, and had a dollop of fermented tofu in my rice porridge.
OMG that's why I just heard millions of voices suddenly cry out in terror and suddenly be silenced! I take fish oil so the level of midiclorians in my blood is high.
posted by XMLicious at 7:22 PM on May 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
but he's not on the cutting edge of anything, so if he suggested probiotics, they must be well proven
I just had some testing done by Satish Rao, one of the doctors featured in this magazine article who emphasized that there is apparently no clear evidence that probiotics wind up in the place they're theoretically supposed to get to in your body. He's got some research himself (paywalled) finding cases where they can sometimes wind up in the small intestine causing problems such as brain fogginess and bloating, that can be treated by antibiotics. He wasn't completely against taking them, but he wasn't real thriled with megadoses or regular usage, including heavy supplementation with yogurt.
Wikipedia has a few citations for the statement "Scientific evidence to date has been insufficient to substantiate any anti-disease claims or health benefits from consuming probiotics."
I don't know that it's settled, but well proven in this case might or might not mean "makes common sense to practitioners and patients, and thus carries on."
posted by spbmp at 7:31 PM on May 11, 2015
I just had some testing done by Satish Rao, one of the doctors featured in this magazine article who emphasized that there is apparently no clear evidence that probiotics wind up in the place they're theoretically supposed to get to in your body. He's got some research himself (paywalled) finding cases where they can sometimes wind up in the small intestine causing problems such as brain fogginess and bloating, that can be treated by antibiotics. He wasn't completely against taking them, but he wasn't real thriled with megadoses or regular usage, including heavy supplementation with yogurt.
Wikipedia has a few citations for the statement "Scientific evidence to date has been insufficient to substantiate any anti-disease claims or health benefits from consuming probiotics."
I don't know that it's settled, but well proven in this case might or might not mean "makes common sense to practitioners and patients, and thus carries on."
posted by spbmp at 7:31 PM on May 11, 2015
no clear evidence that probiotics wind up in the place they're theoretically supposed to get to in your body
I can't find the article now of course but I was flipping through PubMed Central entries on probiotics earlier and one article was emphasizing that different strains of the same bacteria can have radically different abilities to survive the trip to wherever they're supposed to end up—like degree of resistance to stomach acids—and hence was urging researchers and manufacturers to make certain to use bacteria from the same population every time.
posted by XMLicious at 7:53 PM on May 11, 2015
Bee'sWing: "It's because bacteria are really tiny cells compared with yours."
Your cells are SO FAT ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:05 PM on May 11, 2015
Your cells are SO FAT ...
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:05 PM on May 11, 2015
I am more or less willing to give an organ to never have to go through what I've gone through for the past two weeks again so bring on the bacteria
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:19 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:19 PM on May 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
GenjiandProust: "Well, since we supposedly have more non-human cells in our bodies than human cells -- is this true or urban legend?
It's true for me, but then regularly bathing in the Blood of the Innocent has some complex side effects.
On the upside, I'm only allergic to the light of the sun and holy items."
Not to mention, finding the stuff is a massive logistical nightmare nowadays. All I can find is enough to periodically spritz under the arms and my naughty bits.
posted by Samizdata at 10:22 PM on May 11, 2015
It's true for me, but then regularly bathing in the Blood of the Innocent has some complex side effects.
On the upside, I'm only allergic to the light of the sun and holy items."
Not to mention, finding the stuff is a massive logistical nightmare nowadays. All I can find is enough to periodically spritz under the arms and my naughty bits.
posted by Samizdata at 10:22 PM on May 11, 2015
since it's largely unregulated and untested, for all I know we're buying gelatin capsules stuffed with sawdust.
ConsumerLab is an independent testing organization for supplements. Well worth the USD36.00 annual subscription fee.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:54 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
ConsumerLab is an independent testing organization for supplements. Well worth the USD36.00 annual subscription fee.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:54 PM on May 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had a similar weird experience to this in high school. I got really sick like that, and then afterwards and ever since there's just an enormous list of food, and not any standard easy things like wheat gluten or dairy or whatever i can easily avoid, that just given me thunderous amazing uncomfortable gas. Room clearing, relationship destroying gas. And it waxes and wanes. Sometimes i can eat certain things, sometimes i cant.
My uneducated theory is that some bacteria that was supposed to be in there got flushed out/died off/was dominated by something else and it's just been warring factions ever since... but who knows.
That's a pretty classic description of chronic giardia, emptythought:
My uneducated theory is that some bacteria that was supposed to be in there got flushed out/died off/was dominated by something else and it's just been warring factions ever since... but who knows.
That's a pretty classic description of chronic giardia, emptythought:
As many as 30 to 50% of patients who experience an acute episode of giardiasis can develop chronic giardiasis. This illness is characterized by loose stools but not usually watery diarrhea, steatorrhea, profound weight loss, protein malabsorption, folate and fat soluble vitamin deficiencies, malaise, fatigue and depression. There can also be periodic abdominal cramping, boborygmi, flatulence and sulfuric belching. These symptoms can wax and wane over many months. Additionally nearly 20 to 40% of patients can acquire lactose intolerance as a result of this illness further worsening these symptoms. ...posted by jamjam at 12:39 AM on May 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
By the way, "medications" which must bypass the acidic stomach are enteric coated, so they deliver the goods starting at the small intestine. Some medications are hard on the stomach, drug manufacturers got this technology together some time ago.
posted by Oyéah at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 10:02 AM on May 12, 2015
Considering probiotics might not really go where you need them, another option is to look at "prebiotics":
posted by sarah_pdx at 11:53 PM on May 12, 2015
-
"In diet, prebiotics are typically non-digestible fiber compounds that pass undigested through the upper part of the gastrointestinal tract and stimulate the growth and/or activity of advantageous bacteria that colonize the large bowel by acting as substrate for them."
posted by sarah_pdx at 11:53 PM on May 12, 2015
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