Watching Women Want
July 5, 2015 6:05 PM   Subscribe

"[W]hat moves me [about women's soccer] is not a beautiful pass, or a bad refereeing call, or even the players’ backstories. What moves me is the players’ faces, and watching women want. ... And we need to see this, because when you’re in the act of wanting something badly enough, there isn’t room for self-consciousness. How you look, your stance, your hair, your makeup, whether you appear pretty, your sex appeal: all of these things that coalesce in my brain, and maybe yours, to form a hum so low and so constant that I take it as a state of being—and when you want, they disappear. When you want, the want goes to the fore. The you can take a backseat."
posted by MonkeyToes (48 comments total) 36 users marked this as a favorite
 
I like this. It feels true. What a great tournament. Also, I almost immediately thought of Leslie Knope, Amy Pohler's brilliant creation for Parks and Recreation. I hadn't thought of it before, but the genius of that character is that she wants beyond the bounds of self-consciousness.
posted by putzface_dickman at 6:14 PM on July 5, 2015 [11 favorites]


Being excited about "Women not giving a shit when they look ugly" is a really shitty backhanded way of judging some of the finest althetes in the world by reducing them to their attractiveness.
posted by crush-onastick at 6:27 PM on July 5, 2015 [65 favorites]


Hold on--there are moments when women aren't obsessed with hair, makeup, whether they appear pretty, their sex appeal?! Wha-wha-wha-whaaaat?!
posted by witchen at 6:42 PM on July 5, 2015


These women are not thinking about how they look, how their faces are posed, how their bodies might be viewed.

As a sportswriter that covered elite athletes of all genders, you quickly learn how few fucks they give about what anyone thinks about anything. This ability to focus is part of what makes them elite.

The author thinks it's great that they don't care how they look? Only us civilians burn calories on that kind of meta-cognition.

They don't care that you think it's great that they don't care.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 6:44 PM on July 5, 2015 [7 favorites]


I like this. It expresses better what I tried to say in the other thread:
HDTV gives us the slow-motion glory of bouncing celebratory ponytails.

I am obsessed with women's soccer hair, since they all look like real-woman hair, especially real-woman sweaty hair, and this is so unusual on television that I just can't get enough of it. Undercuts! Pixie cuts! Bobs! French braids! Ponytails! Ponytails with supplemental hairbands and pins! High ponys! Low ponys! Buns! Messy bangs! Sweat curls! Highlights! Lowlights! Grey roots! LOOOOOOVE.
I have been utterly fascinated and in love since the Mia Hamm era with women's soccer and how these athletes (who are not hidden under helmets or hats or pads and who are not made-up tiny teenagers -- basketball is a close second but I am very short and they are all so talllllllllll) move and run and primarily look FIERCE. Not pretty, but FIERCE. They will RUN YOU DOWN. And I end up fixated on their hair and the billion different ways they do their hair, which they do entirely for themselves and their convenience and comfort during the game. It is takin' care of business hair. You see all these expressions of femininity, from very butch/masculine short cuts to very feminine and prim french braids; from natural hair to "done" hair; of every color in the rainbow; with roots showing; of every length; in every imaginable style. I particularly love the ponytails with supplemental elastic headbands and side-barrettes because that's what I have to do to my hair to keep it out of my face when I exercise!

I am just obsessed with this because you hardly ever see, in media, women with regular hair, in everyday, practical hairstyles, and you virtually never see women with SWEATY HAIR.

It's just really exciting, I feel like I could be them (despite being a middle-aged mother of two). As the author says in a slightly different way, I can identify with them, because they "look like" me and women I know, precisely because they are there to get shit done, not to be self-conscious about their hair and makeup and facial expressions and everything else.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:55 PM on July 5, 2015 [85 favorites]


acknowledging the world that women exist in isn't judging them on attractiveness, it isn't reducing all women to caring about make up and hair.

from the pull quote: "all of these things that coalesce in my brain, and maybe yours, to form a hum so low and so constant that I take it as a state of being"

and later in the piece: I wish I’d seen more women be so focused on physical exertion that it silenced whatever hum of self-consciousness they might have had. I wish I’d had more visible proof that there were so many women out there who had the ability to not care how they looked, again and again and again, every training and scrimmage and game. I wish I’d seen more women want.

it really is very moving for me, a very self conscious woman-person, to watch women athletes for exactly these reasons. seeing women be so (on preview, yes!) fierce and determined is good for us, i think.
posted by nadawi at 6:59 PM on July 5, 2015 [24 favorites]


Metafilter: They don't care that you think it's great that they don't care.
posted by Bringer Tom at 7:01 PM on July 5, 2015 [15 favorites]


speaking of women who want, and the way that can be inspiring, i am so excited for the williams sister match tomorrow! my only disappointment is that they're meeting so early in the process.
posted by nadawi at 7:07 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


[One comment deleted. Let's have this conversation without offering our assessment of their makeup or whether they look great.]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:19 PM on July 5, 2015 [8 favorites]


I find this article very strange. In the course of trying to make a case that women are objectified or reduced to beauty by the media, she seems to be equally reducing soccer players to their appearance. Either way it is somehow (again) more about how the woman looks than what she actually does.
posted by yarly at 7:26 PM on July 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


I've really enjoyed watching the Women's World Cup (unusual on its own, as I do not generally care for any flavor of sportball) and have been generally pleased with the way they are being filmed. I can recall only one male-gaze-y shot: a strangely lingering one of a USA player drinking a bottle of water.

Annoyingly, the reality is that it's not enough for women to look fierce; we as photographers and viewers must also view them as fierce before we view them as attractive.

Also: USA! USA! USA!
posted by nicodine at 7:28 PM on July 5, 2015 [2 favorites]


people confused about the angle of the article might want to read her bio - Autumn Whitefield-Madrano examines concepts of beauty and personal appearance - she's not a sportswriter.
posted by nadawi at 7:32 PM on July 5, 2015 [9 favorites]


The fact that how the women look is important because its unimportant is a paradox but it's only a paradox because it's incomplete. It's important that people see women in the context of their looks being unimportant and then acknowledge that that's okay. It goes back to the whole thing about the shift towards seeing women as people who do things and want things and not objects who get things done to them. It's not reductive to say that. Everyone needs to get this message - little girls, like the author states, but also little boys, teenagers, grown people, everyone.
posted by bleep at 8:02 PM on July 5, 2015 [11 favorites]


I know exactly what the author is referring to, and I love it. This is my favorite picture of Megan Rapinoe, for just exactly that reason.
posted by KathrynT at 8:14 PM on July 5, 2015 [13 favorites]


Well, I just enjoyed the soccer. I saw lots of skill, commitment to work, a superb hat-trick, and a sense of fair play that often is not seen in the men's game.

And maybe it's just my bad luck, but whenever I watch a men's soccer match, it seems like endless fouls and fake-fouls and fake-injuries to try and gain possession and get the opposition players sent off. Also, biting. And unpleasantness in what the crowd are often shouting at each other.

So this is quite possibly the first time I've enjoyed, unconditionally, a football tournament. Because skill, fair play, and a positive atmosphere. And that's good enough for me.
posted by Wordshore at 8:14 PM on July 5, 2015 [13 favorites]


A friend asked me today why I enjoyed this cup so much more than the mens cup, and I wasn't really sure why. I just did.

I think it's because the talent and quality of the game has skyrocketed, but without any of the cynicism and arrogance that seems to accompany the mens game.

The players just seem to want it so much more. The joy on their faces and... also the tears of defeat... seem more real. Can't really explain it other than that, its just the love of the game seems to shine through. Maybe the money in the Men's game dilutes that.

Or maybe it's, you know, this.
posted by cacofonie at 8:27 PM on July 5, 2015 [12 favorites]


Is that the shadow of a camera drone in that gif?
posted by I-baLL at 9:10 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


I wonder if the whole "women who play elite-level footsoccer want it more" thing is that they aren't outrageously overpaid multijillionnaires? I mean yeah, obviously not all guys who play are, but lots and lots make utterly stupid money; Ronaldo or Beckham or whoever could walk onto the pitch, drop a deuce, and go "I just made eleventy billion dollars for taking a crap."

Women (because of sexism) aren't paid nearly that much; perhaps there's slightly more of a pursuit of glory thing going on? I feel like I see the same thing going on when I watch the Olympics; there's the superstars who, yeah, are in pursuit of glory and they know they have the $20MM sponsorship deal anyway, and then there's everyone else who's hungry for the win. (And, ok, maybe hungry to get that same sponsorship deal on the back of a medal, I'm sure it's a factor.)

Am I making any sense here?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:15 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Is that the shadow of a camera drone in that gif?
It will be a wire mounted overhead camera, probably a spidercam
posted by Lame_username at 9:29 PM on July 5, 2015 [3 favorites]


Is that the shadow of a camera drone in that gif?
Not a drone per se, but a cable and winch connected Skycam.
posted by mmascolino at 9:29 PM on July 5, 2015 [1 favorite]


Just for fun, here is the view from the camera.
posted by Lame_username at 9:59 PM on July 5, 2015 [8 favorites]


I'm reminded of this, which I could have sworn I found via metafilter a while back:

The Unbearable Daintiness of Women who eat with Men

A substantial body of literature suggests that women change what they eat when they eat with men. Specifically, women opt for smaller amounts and lower-calorie foods associated with femininity. So, some scholars argue that women change what they eat to appear more feminine when dining with male companions.

For my senior thesis, I explored whether women change the way they eat alongside what they eat when dining with a male vs. female companion. To examine this phenomenon, I conducted 42 hours of non-participant observation in two four-star American restaurants in a large west coast city in the United States. I observed the eating behaviors of 76 Euro-American women (37 dining with a male companion and 39 dining with a female companion) aged approximately 18 to 40 to identify differences in their eating behaviors.

I found that women did change the way they ate depending on the gender of their dining companion. Overall, when dining with a male companion, women typically constructed their bites carefully, took small bites, ate slowly, used their napkins precisely and frequently, and maintained good posture and limited body movement throughout their meals. In contrast, women dining with a female companion generally constructed their bites more haphazardly, took larger bites, used their napkins more loosely and sparingly, and moved their bodies more throughout their meals.

...

posted by sebastienbailard at 11:02 PM on July 5, 2015 [19 favorites]


Story of my life, Sebastien, and one of the reasons I had an eating disorder throughout high school and college. The fear of being considered gross while eating was enough to make me go off food completely eventually. I still compulsively cover my mouth when I chew or take a bite, especially when eating with men (though if I'm with a woman I find attractive my brain really goes haywire over food).

In other news, the mall I was in today when the team won erupted into cheers as lots of people got notifications of the score on their phones. There were a few little girls who looked like their ultimate dreams had come true and their mothers were just as delighted. It was a uniquely female wave of delight and it was honestly so uplifting to be a part of even though I know squat about soccer. Hope all those kiddos today who were imagining themselves as pro players get the chance to make that dream happen someday.
posted by Hermione Granger at 11:19 PM on July 5, 2015 [5 favorites]


Of course athletes want. I participate in a sport in which both male and female athletes scream, shout, and try to hit one another (at the local level, often in mixed tournaments). We are trying to win, and we're putting ourselves on the line doing it. We're willing to take risks, including the all-encompassing risk of wanting to win and then losing. People collapse crying after bouts. They throw things. They jump up and down in celebration. Male and female alike. As an athlete, I'm a little unsettled by the article, because it centralizes the watcher rather than the doer. The author says, "I wish I’d had some sort of template that could have earlier taught me the joys of inhabiting my body." I guess that makes sense in an age when sport is a spectacle and consuming of all sorts is an imperative, but it is the going-out-and-doing, not the seeing, that makes you an athlete.
posted by Peach at 12:25 AM on July 6, 2015 [2 favorites]


As a sportswriter that covered elite athletes of all genders, you quickly learn how few fucks they give about what anyone thinks about anything. This ability to focus is part of what makes them elite.


I guess you missed out on the detail that many male NBA players shave their armpits.
posted by srboisvert at 4:57 AM on July 6, 2015


sebastienbailard, I posted a link to that article the other day, and also thought of it in connection to this essay: women work at performing normative femininity (the "unbearable daintiness") more often in the company of men than of other women. And when women want—in this case, to win—that set of dainty behaviors is irrelevant, and they transform culturally-coded body presentation and behaviors into tools of Getting Shit Done. As Whitefield-Madrano says, "The face becomes a way of communicating to teammates; the body, as they have trained it to become through thousands of hours of practice, a vehicle for winning." And yeah, in flow, as cool papa bell says, they give zero fucks about how their physical appearance is being construed (whether an audience judges them sexy or ugly or feminine or masculine) because it is irrelevant to the work they're doing. In play, they escape the metrics of attractiveness, although onlookers have not (off the field, a different story, of course). As a woman, I would like to get to the point in my work where I am so immersed in its flow and the way my body functions while I do it that I become unaware of being judged; not so much giving zero fucks about my appearance as being so in the moment that outside judgment is irrelevant because I am Getting Shit Done. There are not so many models of that out there for me. I wish the media/movies/the internet would show more women in flow, wanting.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:07 AM on July 6, 2015 [9 favorites]


I'm a bit too hung over to process the article - I still haven't processed the first 16 minutes of that game - but this might be of interest : Karla Villalobos of Costa Rica, after her chest and volley versus South Korea.
posted by suckerpunch at 6:42 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


I liked the article. I was thinking about some of the same things when watching the game - how focused the players are, and how they probably are not thinking at all about how they look, and about how so much of the time - like 99% of the time! more! - we are taught to think first about how women look, whether we are the ones looking or the ones being looked at.

And I end up fixated on their hair and the billion different ways they do their hair, which they do entirely for themselves and their convenience and comfort during the game.

Yes! Totally. I kept noticing all the different ways they had their hair. So interesting to see, in this elite, not-everyday context, this everyday thing that is a part of navigating femininity and self-presentation, and to see all the different choices they made about it.
posted by aka burlap at 6:56 AM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's a lot more fun than watching What Women Want, at least.
posted by eykal at 6:57 AM on July 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


I wanted to like this article, but it just was not my experience of this world cup or any other women's sporting event. I completely understand that society expects me as a woman to spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm looking like, but I've also been lucky enough throughout my life to live in contexts where that is not true. I grew up as a long distance runner (we sometimes pee on ourselves, and nobody notices our hair because it is too matted with sweat) and as a swimmer (hair under rubber cap, goggles leaving raccoon eyes, swim suits designed to be functional). For the past 16 years, I have worked in some capacity in the field as an ecologist, where our primary concern is keeping ticks and mosquitos off while getting our work done to very high standards, usually while wearing waders.

From time to time I get compliments (or not really compliments) from friends who live in those other contexts and admire (or not so much) the fact that I have avoided them. I wish other women got to experience my context. I really really suck at living in theirs, and I am really lucky that I can mostly avoid it. On those occasions that I can't, I am awkward and miserable and can't wait to escape back to my world of sweat and bugs and getting stuff done.
posted by hydropsyche at 7:12 AM on July 6, 2015 [12 favorites]


But they *don't* look "ugly." If anything, they look magnetic or compelling but certainly not "ugly." It's easy to pick over the choice of words in a hastily written column but I feel like "they don't give a shit how they look" might have conveyed the point better than "they don't give a shit if they look ugly." Because they also don't give a shit if they make fans go weak in the knees from the sheer beauty in their faces and bodies.

That picture of Hope Solo could inspire me to run more frequently and work on speed, so that if she ever turned that look on me, I might have a chance of escape (given a head start).
posted by janey47 at 7:45 AM on July 6, 2015 [4 favorites]


Deadspin, who was had surprisingly excellent coverage of the Cup, has an article of a former player singing an ode to Sydney Leroux's eyelashes.

I've wondered about how much these players focus on looks, and feel the need to focus on looks, solely to maximize their earnings with endorsement money. The difference between Alex Morgan's income, which will be in the millions this year, and some of her teammates on the Thorns, whose salaries range from $38k (!) to $6k(!!!) is enormous. Starting players for US and Canadian national teams live in host homes during the NWSL season to help control costs. (Kling and Moe famously live with the van Gundys of basketball fame; Olympic hero Diana Matheson lived in a retirement community...) The NWSL reigning rookie of the year retired because she had a job offer from Amazon. Lots of players are chasing very little money. If performing within a certain predefined role can land you a single endorsement so that, you know, you can get you your own place, how does that work in?
posted by suckerpunch at 7:58 AM on July 6, 2015 [3 favorites]


(Yes, endorsements can be more predicated on play than on looks, so I don't know how far to push that line of thought. Also, players can achieve some sort of comfort by playing year-round in different countries, which is draining, or in the US and Canada, by making the national team, who will then pay their salaries. The lack of money elsewhere was probably one of the driving reasons behind the recent players' CBA with US Soccer, which is rumored to heavily reward seniority and to minimize turnover in the roster.)
posted by suckerpunch at 8:06 AM on July 6, 2015


Loved the article. Thanks for sharing it.

Internalizing other's expectations of behavior and looks is a constant & a very big problem.

And its great to see moments where such expectations are forgotten and even consciously ignored.

If we want to encourage everyone to "be themselves" celebrating and promoting such moments is essential.
posted by TheLittlePrince at 8:27 AM on July 6, 2015


My wife, who is Japanese, has told me she's always hated the nickname chosen by fans for the Japan's women soccer team, Nadeshiko. It's a term that means the epitome of ideal Japanese female beauty, and she hates that these women who are some of the best in the world in their sport are still discussed in terms of their appearance. She said she really liked that England's team's nickname is the Lionesses.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:28 AM on July 6, 2015 [12 favorites]


But they *don't* look "ugly." If anything, they look magnetic or compelling but certainly not "ugly." It's easy to pick over the choice of words in a hastily written column but I feel like "they don't give a shit how they look" might have conveyed the point better than "they don't give a shit if they look ugly." Because they also don't give a shit if they make fans go weak in the knees from the sheer beauty in their faces and bodies.

I half-agree with this, but I think "they don't give a shit how they look" also exists in the pop-culture framework of women who are beautiful because they don't give a shit how they look, which is such a common cultural expectation. No-makeup makeup, "you don't know you're beautiful", all that bullshit. Beauty is still a central expectation, even if women don't care if they're ugly, how lucky for them that they happen to be pretty! We almost had to deal with an ugly woman, close call!

Or if ugliness can exist, it's only in the framework of vulnerability and weakness. Ugly crying, for example.

So for that reason, explicitly saying "they are being strong and ugly and it's great" seems important to me. (Even if I don't really find them "ugly" either!)
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:00 AM on July 6, 2015 [8 favorites]


I used to go to a gym where a bunch of the Olympic Women's Hockey team trained (and some other athletes). As far as I'm concerned, their nickname was "I will break you."
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:05 AM on July 6, 2015 [11 favorites]


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/this-letter-from-a-reader-explains-why-women-cant-play-football-9883877.html

from 2014:

“I watched the England-Germany women’s football on TV. Why was it screened? Women can’t play football. They don’t even know the basic rules.

When tackled, they get up and play on. They don’t pretend to be hurt. They don’t dive. They don’t get opponents sent off. They don’t wrestle at corner kicks. Worst of all, they don’t hassle the match officials. As any fool who has watched the men’s Premiership knows, that is not the way to play football.

David Hickey

BLAENAU FFESTINIOG, GWYNEDD”
posted by blob at 9:21 AM on July 6, 2015 [13 favorites]


Sangermaine, your wife would probably be pleased to know that in addition to the 3 Lionesses of England, the Nigerian team are the Super Falcons, Cote d'Ivoire are the Elephants, Cameroon are the Indomitable Lionesses, and Thailand are the War Elephants. I imagine a Thailand/Cote d'Ivoire match would be...stompy. And trumpety.
posted by Bunny Boneyology at 9:26 AM on July 6, 2015 [5 favorites]


All I know is the fan in the stands wearing the eagle mask and draped in the flag was the best fan for any sport I've watched in a while.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:16 AM on July 6, 2015 [10 favorites]


On Monday morning, the official account of the English national team tweeted:

Our #Lionesses go back to being mothers, partners and daughters today, but they have taken on another title - heroes

Ugh. On the other hand, I'm impressed with their ability to tweet from the 19th century.
posted by Dashy at 11:48 AM on July 6, 2015 [15 favorites]


From the same author
posted by rhizome at 12:16 PM on July 6, 2015


This was fantastic. Far too many of my brain processes are used in keeping track of my perception. This was really great to see these ladies who are SO INVOLVED in their athleticism that there just aren't any brain processes to waste on that BS. Seeing unguarded women's reactions is a rare treat.
posted by jillithd at 12:18 PM on July 6, 2015 [5 favorites]


Apropos of rhizome's link, here's what Whitefiled-Madrano wrote last year at the conclusion of her World Hair Cup:
I’ve written a lot about the narrow spaces women are allowed to inhabit when it comes to their appearance: Be pretty but not threateningly so, care how you look but don’t be high-maintenance, etc. The World Cup—and, of course, the World Hair Cup (vote now! Tomorrow’s the last day to vote in the Round of 16!)—are a handy reminder that the highwire isn’t just for women. With the remarkable hair of the men’s World Cup players, one of the narrow spaces men live in is adeptly maneuvered, with everything from fluffy Afros to beard-mohawk combos to creative razor lines. It’s a construction of masculinity that has given these men a particular permission to sport the styles they do. But permission is something that can be withdrawn at whim. A right is not.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:18 PM on July 6, 2015 [1 favorite]


suckerpunch: "I've wondered about how much these players focus on looks, and feel the need to focus on looks, solely to maximize their earnings with endorsement money. The difference between Alex Morgan's income, which will be in the millions this year, and some of her teammates on the Thorns, whose salaries range from $38k (!) to $6k(!!!) is enormous."
That's not solely a concern for the female players; the reason Cronaldo makes a bit more than Nobby Stiles did on endorsement deals isn't only because he's a better player.

Of course, if your baseline pay is effectively zero it makes players more dependent on their looks if they want to make a living of their sport.
posted by brokkr at 1:26 PM on July 6, 2015


All I know is the fan in the stands wearing the eagle mask and draped in the flag was the best fan for any sport I've watched in a while.

Eagle superfan said she used to play roller derby, and somehow became even more awesome.
posted by nicodine at 7:23 PM on July 6, 2015


In other news, the mall I was in today when the team won erupted into cheers as lots of people got notifications of the score on their phones. There were a few little girls who looked like their ultimate dreams had come true and their mothers were just as delighted. It was a uniquely female wave of delight and it was honestly so uplifting to be a part of even though I know squat about soccer.

Some of the guys I work with are real sports-bros, mostly (American) football but also baseball and hockey. They watch all the games, do the fantasy league stuff, and spend serious time and money tailgating at stadiums.

I was delighted that every single one of them had watched the women's world cup, mostly with their daughters but some alone, and they were discussing it today with the same intensity as their usual dude games. I've never seen that in a previous women's world cup -- some line of general interest was crossed this year and I hope it continues.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:52 AM on July 7, 2015 [4 favorites]


Oh hello, popping in a few days late but oh well.

Yes, it's bad that women are impossible to separate from their appearances and you can quibble about the use of "ugly" or not, but this article resonated for me in an intense way. In high school I played varsity tennis, second doubles as a junior and jumping a couple spots to first singles as a senior. I was also so self-conscious about how much I weighed most of the time, that even though I was thin (and about 15 pounds underweight) I obsessed over everything I ate, sucked in my stomach constantly, and had a mild panic every time I had to eat something "unhealthy" or miss exercise for reasons like getting sick or a blizzard.

But when I was on the court, facing down an opponent? Holy shit, let me at it! It was the only time I didn't worry about my thigh cellulite or that my abs weren't concave, and it was bliss. I would get into this state of intense focus where even my mom watching me or my opponent's teammates cheering against me didn't matter. I didn't smile at anything or betray any frustration until it was over; all my thoughts were just "how do I win this" and "hit the ball." I could even sprint--something I am extremely not gifted at--if it was to get to the ball; not only did I ignore that hum of how do I look? but I could also ignore my muscles' normal signals of this is too difficult; stop doing that! I wish there were photos of me playing. I'm sure my facial expressions were something.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I'm reminded of this (seriously, I dare you to look at that photo and feel no feelings!) and whether animated female characters are "allowed" to be ugly or not.
posted by j.r at 1:20 PM on July 9, 2015 [3 favorites]


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