“Black and blue, God versus man, day versus night.”
July 12, 2015 5:16 PM   Subscribe

 
Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:27 PM on July 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

Agreed. I laughed (and not in the way they probably wanted me to) at "The Red Capes are Coming! The Red Capes are coming!"
posted by damayanti at 5:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

I dunno, Superman's loyal army of nazis.
posted by kafziel at 5:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


It's better than the first trailer, but Snyder is a hack, so I can't imagine this being good for anything other than a dollar rental and a laugh.
posted by codacorolla at 5:30 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


Iron(BAT)man looks like he's ready to break shit though.

This is not a complaint. That suit looks legit badass!
posted by Fizz at 5:30 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


I do like the fact that one of the legitimate complaints about Man of Steel - that the final confict between Superman and Zod was equivalent to several simultaneous 9/11's, and couldn't be simply brushed aside - becomes a major plot point and motivator in the sequel.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 5:36 PM on July 12, 2015 [24 favorites]


that the final confict between Superman and Zod was equivalent to several simultaneous 9/11's, and couldn't be simply brushed aside

We're all going to be super disappointed when the film is just one giant trial sequence filled with lawyers and motion filings.

The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.
posted by Fizz at 5:39 PM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]


i wish holywood would stop giving zach snyder money to ruin franchises i love.
posted by JimBennett at 5:40 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE KRYPTONITE!
posted by zooropa at 5:41 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


It looks like this is going to be very far from any take we've seen of these character cinematically, and I can get behind that.

I can't really get behind the disaster porn or simplistically one dimensional tone. I'm also a little concerned there are too many character introductions for a coherent film.
posted by lownote at 5:43 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


We're really going to keep evoking 9/11 in action movies, huh?

Also, you can say what you want about Joss Whedon's Avengers, but at least Joss has a directorial style beyond "Does this scene look totally bad ass and cool to the max Y/N"
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:47 PM on July 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


This looks so terrible and pretentious. More grim and humorless crap that teenage boys find deep from the talentless hack Zak Snyder. But, Ben Affleck sure can grimace.
posted by askmehow at 5:47 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


It's better than the first trailer, but Snyder is a hack...
Snyder is not a hack, he is the best second-unit director working in Hollywood today. Unfortunately all the real directors who know about making coherent and engaging films are sick or something, and he gets called up to do the best he can, films filled with beautifully shot b-roll.
posted by AndrewStephens at 5:48 PM on July 12, 2015 [56 favorites]


I'm really amused by this approach to superhero movies. It reminds me of that thing kids sometimes do, where they find bugs and put them in a jar together, hoping they'll fight to the death. That's basically what they're doing with two intellectual properties here, and the whole movie seems likely to amount to "shake it up so they'll fight!"
posted by clockzero at 5:52 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


I really like the trailer, it was awesome. I probably won't get around to watching the movie, just like I didn't see the last one despite really liking the trailer. But man, they make really good super-hero trailers these days. Can't wait for the next big one!
posted by skewed at 5:53 PM on July 12, 2015 [18 favorites]


The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.

Note to DC comics: this is a movie that I would actually go to see
posted by saturday_morning at 5:55 PM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]


We're all going to be super disappointed when the film is just one giant trial sequence filled with lawyers and motion filings.

The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.


I would watch the hell out of this movie. In fact, I'd far rather see this than the movie actually in the trailer.
posted by skycrashesdown at 5:56 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


That suit looks legit badass!

Of course. It was legit badass in The Dark Knight Returns, nearly thirty years ago. Ditto for many of the scenes similarly lifted directly from the original comics of 300 and Watchmen.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:56 PM on July 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


So because he's mostly CGI, Superman is also mute?
posted by stevil at 6:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.

Superman: Have you ever spent time in the Fortress of Solitude, son?

Prosecutor: No sir.

Superman: Ever served in the Watchtower?

Prosecutor: No sir.

Superman: Ever put your life in another Justice League member's hands, ask them to put their life in yours?

Prosecutor: No sir.

Superman: We knock down buildings, son. We knock down buildings or people die, um... lots more people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?

Prosecutor: Yes sir.

Superman: Are we clear?

Prosecutor: Crystal.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 6:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


Also, Dark Knight Rises related (YT)
posted by stevil at 6:04 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


Looks like it's going to be a fantastic movie!
posted by HuronBob at 6:05 PM on July 12, 2015


someone do a version where everybody walking gets john cena's walk out music
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:07 PM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]


Lord help me but I'm actually sort of interested in seeing Ben Affleck's Old Man Bruce Wayne.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:07 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm sure that I'll go see it and then hate myself for sitting through it.
posted by octothorpe at 6:11 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


That seems like a big part of Hollywood's business model these days.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:14 PM on July 12, 2015 [11 favorites]


Also, I understand that Wonder Woman isn't the focus of the movie and so forth, but the couple of times we see her in civilian garb, it's a little too easy to mistake her for one of Luthor's assistants, and I hope that she gets better moments on screen than what we see.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:15 PM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]


Lord help me but I'm actually sort of interested in seeing Ben Affleck's Old Man Bruce Wayne.

Looks like that might not be the only old man superhero story to eventually hit theaters.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 6:17 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


The first few seconds made this look interesting--I do like the fact that it builds on the mess of the Metropolis battle--but aside from the fact that Wonder Woman genuinely looks good, this totally didn't hold my interest.

I feel like Snyder & DC/WB are looking for this whole "You can't have giant super battles in cities without lots of death and consequences" angle to contrast themselves against the Marvel films, but Marvel cared about collateral damage from the beginning, and this seems like Snyder is just waking up to the issue. It seems like he's trying to pretend Marvel hasn't confronted it when Marvel has already addressed that. Hell, between Avengers and Daredevil and even the GotG movie, they've done that from multiple angles.

That could be overanalysis, of course. I'd love to think that DC/WB is just gonna go do their own thing without worrying about what the other studio(s) are doing...except we all know that Hollywood just doesn't work that way.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:20 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Lord help me but I'm actually sort of interested in seeing Ben Affleck's Old Man Bruce Wayne.

Yeah, I've been excited about this too, ever since the studio leaked a bunch of images of Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne
posted by skewed at 6:24 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


Well, see, Marvel didn't do a gritty deconstruction thing. Snyder's going to a gritty deconstruction thing because that's what 1986 was about in comics and he's all about bringing the spirit of 1986* to screen whether he understands any of it or not.

* with nuMetal visuals, obvs.
posted by Artw at 6:25 PM on July 12, 2015 [11 favorites]


I was pleasantly surprised by the trailer. But it's Snyder, so I still have no illusions about it.

Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

See, after this trailer I feel much better about him and Affleck, both of whom I thought were terrible miscasting. Affleck just doesn't look anything like Affleck, which is to his advantage. And Eisenberg makes sense. A modern-day Luthor is less likely to be an attractive, magnetic, amoral businessman and more likely to be a craven, self-satisfied brogrammer out of Silicon Valley who simply seethes at the sight of a popular jock like Superman.
posted by schroedinger at 6:25 PM on July 12, 2015 [28 favorites]


scaryblackdeath: "but aside from the fact that Wonder Woman genuinely looks good, this totally didn't hold my interest."

Yep. I really wish they'd skipped this grimdarkness and just went straight to a Wonder Woman movie. Probably wish they'd skip the JLA movie, as well.
posted by signal at 6:31 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


Unlike the previous trailer (and film), this actually looks fun. Not, y'know, Ant-Man fun, but more fun than the morose desaturated scowl-fest I was expecting.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 6:33 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


I was sure this would be a bad film, but the trailer makes it look like something even worse: five different okay films.
posted by Ian A.T. at 6:33 PM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]


I like the ideas here. Superman arrives on Earth, prompting worship and fear, plus the probably the appearance of others such as Wonder Woman and Aquaman, who have been in hiding. But it all rings false, starting with Man of Steel. Clark didn't give a shit about the destruction and that seems to be because of his parents. Which is an interesting angle, but somehow just doesn't work, based on the the trailer. Wonder Woman doesn't look impressive, just there.

Plus, I thought Bruce Wayne was retired and pretending to be dead with Catwoman. It's like the Nolan movies don't even exist. Which isn't bad, just weird as hell.

Plus, can we beyond The Dark Knight Returns.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:35 PM on July 12, 2015


This is a different continuity that the Nolan films, I think.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:37 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


So enjoying this movie requires accepting that Snyder's Superman movie happened? No thanks.
posted by Catblack at 6:37 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


that the final confict between Superman and Zod was equivalent to several simultaneous 9/11's

TRUTHER: Are you saying that heat vision ... can melt steel?!?!
<vaporized by red beam from sky>
posted by benzenedream at 6:42 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


I also like how Martha Kent is like, ah, who gives a fuck Clark, just quit, you don't owe these people shit. These new Kents are my kind of people, Kansas nihilists.
posted by benzenedream at 6:45 PM on July 12, 2015 [34 favorites]


The only problem with doing the Few Good Men version of Batman vs. Superman is that I'm not sure who the awesome lawyer superheroes are in the DCU.

Also, I think that might just be the lawyering parts of Daredevil, which would be awesome. It's even the same palette!
posted by dinty_moore at 6:47 PM on July 12, 2015


I get why a lot of people don't care for Ben Affleck, but I've found him to be a serviceable movie star, and sometimes even a good actor. I'm looking forward to seeing him in this.

I also liked what Henry Cavill did in "Man of Steel" - that movie's many problems were concept- and script-related, and not because of his performance - and the short glimpse of the Xenafied version of Wonder Woman looks promising.

But this movie can't have too many surprises, plot-wise - we know the set-up, as outlined in the trailer; a big chunk of the middle seems to be based on the Bats vs Supes battle in the comics; and they have to end up as, if not friends, at least potential allies, because they're setting up another movie.

Given all that, I almost wish they'd skipped ahead to the Justice League - forget about laying groundwork, Marvel-style, and just bring on the full-blown JLA.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 6:58 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


You know, probably the most discordant thing in this whole mess of BWOOOONNNGGGG and CGI is Ma Kent saying basically: "Remember Clark, fuck 'em, you got yours." Which could be an interesting jumping off point for another alt-Superman as global overlord story, but is just so utterly wrong for anything where he's supposed to be regular continuity Superman.

I'm kind of wondering if Zach Snyder is functionally illiterate. Because he doesn't actually seem to comprehend the themes or meanings of the comics he plunders for visuals.
posted by Grimgrin at 7:00 PM on July 12, 2015 [17 favorites]


What are Batman and Superman doing in my Wonder Woman movie?!
posted by LastOfHisKind at 7:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [12 favorites]


Ma Kent saying basically: "Remember Clark, fuck 'em, you got yours."

Honestly, I haven't seen MoS, but given the trailer here, Ma Kent's statement absolutely made sense. She's a mother seeing the whole world dump on her son. Powerful or not, the guy is emotionally just as vulnerable as most people, and so is she. Besides, if your child had some amazing talent that everyone else wanted to exploit and manipulate--and let's face it, that's exactly what would happen with a Superman--wouldn't you be a little resentful? Wouldn't you want to encourage your kid to make up his/her own mind?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:10 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


Wow, they really miscast Luthor and Wonder Woman.

Affleck looking good, which is a surprise to me. I didn't think he could pull it off.
posted by Sternmeyer at 7:11 PM on July 12, 2015


I'm kind of wondering if Zach Snyder is functionally illiterate. Because he doesn't actually seem to comprehend the themes or meanings of the comics he plunders for visuals.

Oh he gets the themes and meanings, he just doesn't agree with them and has his own take. And it's an interesting take, no question. But it seems like there was little setup for it in Man of Steel. other than breaking a bunch of stuff and that makes Bruce mad.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:11 PM on July 12, 2015


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

Otisburg?

OTISBURG?!?!

Erm, yeah. So yeah, uh looks good. Uh. thanks... Thanks Otis.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:15 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Personally, I am looking forward to reading Scalia's angry, vindictive diatribe on Batman v. Superman, when he doesn't get his way.
posted by markkraft at 7:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [11 favorites]


Besides, if your child had some amazing talent that everyone else wanted to exploit and manipulate--and let's face it, that's exactly what would happen with a Superman--wouldn't you be a little resentful? Wouldn't you want to encourage your kid to make up his/her own mind?

I agree with Grimgrin - that statement from Ma Kent is discordant. The whole point of Superman is that he is a "Super" man - not just physically, but also morally and ethically. Someone who does not succumb to the seduction of his immense power; someone who doesn't give in to the resentment and exasperation and so forth. And a big part of that is supposed to come from his parents, birth and foster.

I think there could be an interesting story in which the world at large resents, fears, worships, etc. a Superman. That would be a grimdark, realistic take on Superman I would be interested in - where the cynical world doesn't know how to react or deal with him, while Superman just tries to carry on. Or one in which Superman grapples with the immense power imbalance and figuring out how to live in a world where his slightest mis-step could result in a lot of people getting hurt and the exhaustion of being the saviour of a world that always needs saving. I mean, if we're going to grimdark Superman, let's do it for a reason and a chance to explore, thematically, some interesting things about our world and us; not just because being grimdark is cool and "realistic".

But this...This looks like Superman and Batman deciding to beat up on each other because they are both kinda dicks, and maybe through the fighting they decide they should work together at the end? Is that the idea here? Plus, we'll throw in Wonder Woman.
posted by nubs at 7:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


Is there a law that mandates every director to touch Batman to film a "parents getting shot" scene because, seriously, we get it.
posted by truex at 7:30 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


Is there a law that mandates every director to touch Batman to film a "parents getting shot" scene because, seriously, we get it.

My parents are DEAD!

posted by nubs at 7:34 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


With respect to Martha Kent's line, has anyone else thought about how scary a proposition it is to have Superman raised in Kansas today? What if he were raised with the sort of ideology that would lead him to vote for Brownback? Is that a world you want to live in?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 7:36 PM on July 12, 2015 [40 favorites]


Isn't this just one of those mega-sized print comics from the late 70s/early 80s? There where a bunch of X$_superhero vs Y$_superhero one-off issues if I recall. Superman vs The Flash, Batman vs Wonder Woman etc...

I -know- Hollywood is notorious for being unorginal ... But geeze those where dark days for comics, it's not like we need to recreate every bit of prior wring-blood/$$$-from-stone moment is there? I mean at least The Minions beating a dead horse franchise is new. But whatev, I kinda think Superhero movies are on borrowed time right now.
posted by edgeways at 7:39 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Well, at the very least Hollywood can strike doing the Superman/Barman fight from Dark Knight Returns off of it's too do list and never bother us with it ever again.

You know what would win me over though? Superman lasering Batman in half and booting the prices into orbit. Because we've seen this fight with batman pulling off an implausible win enough times that I am bored to tears by the thought of it.
posted by Artw at 7:42 PM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]


But...he's BATMAN. He can beat anyone, uh huh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:50 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


That's why it's boring.
posted by Artw at 7:58 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


He's Batman
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:00 PM on July 12, 2015 [11 favorites]


I have no faith this will be any good
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


wow, lot's of scowling. hope there's more scowls in the final movie. love to see em scowl. love them super scowls. love when the one guy scowls at the other guy. it's like, are they serious? yeah, dude, they are serious, look how hard they are scowling. mmm scowly scowly scowl
posted by Greg Nog at 8:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [17 favorites]


I don't care what you say, I'm going to see this and it will be awesome. You people getting your jimmies rustled... ugh.
posted by Justinian at 8:08 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


That whole thing about Batman being able to beat anyone, where did that come from?

Because you see, here, he's fighting someone who Can Shoot LAZER BEAMS From His Eyes!
Just one thing, one thing he can do amongst many, but It's LAZER BEAMS From His Eyes!
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:08 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Superman's parents being Randian Brownback fans and Luthor being a Koch Brother would be kind of cool. Red State instead of Red Sun.
posted by benzenedream at 8:16 PM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]


Also maybe it's time for a CGI moratorium, or legislation that if you're going to do CGI you spend enough time on it so it doesn't look like a Playstation cutscene

If someone who actually understood the characters and their worlds just had Batman and Superman in the Adam West/Christopher Reeve era suits sitting in a diner talking about the differences in their philosophy, I would be much more optimistic
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:17 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.



My friend, you and me both.
posted by Alexander J. Luthor at 8:17 PM on July 12, 2015 [13 favorites]


Looks like another "Let's Play" video being passed off as a movie.
posted by unmake at 8:18 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


That whole thing about Batman being able to beat anyone, where did that come from?

Well, you can't really write a whole story about how Goliath beats the shit out of David.
posted by skewed at 8:18 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


I like what I've seen of Affleck, as Batman, so far. Didn't mind so much grimdark Superman either. I thought Eisenberg as Luther was quite entertaining. But uh, Wonder Woman? I realize it's not her flick but she seems like an afterthought and that, is disappointing.
posted by evilDoug at 8:18 PM on July 12, 2015


It's not that I mind the themes or the interpretations just that they all come across as so so obvious and without any sense of adventure to buoy it to any kind of reality I want to visit.
posted by Tevin at 8:20 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


___ vs Squirrel Girl is the only superhuman contest worth watching, even if the outcome is pretty much foregone.
posted by unmake at 8:22 PM on July 12, 2015 [10 favorites]


Panel 1:
Bruce Wayne's funeral. Various People in funeral attire surround the grave, including Robin and Clark Kent.

Panel 2:
Small panel - Bruce's heartrate, flatlined.

Panel 3:
Same sized panel - a spike in the line, a single heartbeat.

Panel 4:
From Robin's POV: Clark surreptitiously lowers his glasses and shoots laser beams into the ground.

Panel 5:
Same view. Clark gives Robin a big cheesy superman wink.

Panel 6:
The crowd, with the exception of Robin, drift away from the graveside. Robin, bummed out, stares down at the grave where smoke rises from a small hole that has been burned square in the middle of it.
posted by Artw at 8:22 PM on July 12, 2015 [14 favorites]


Wonder Women should have been in Gone Girl. It would have saved me a lot of time.
posted by srboisvert at 8:23 PM on July 12, 2015


(the above all in meticulous 16 panel grid, of course)
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


My parents are DEAD!

*actual gigglesnort*
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:27 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


It seems like Zach Snyder would prefer filming Straczynski's Squadron Supreme using DC's original characters
posted by Auden at 8:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm afraid the tone of the whole movie is going to match the ridiculous shot of Lex Eisenberg portentously fondling that mysterious glowing green rock.

WHAT COULD IT BE?!?!

When Superman effortlessly pulls Batman out of his completely ineffectual tank and confronts him, will Batman have a surprise that Superman does not expect?!

Will this movie have a single moment of joy, wonder, or even surprise?!
posted by straight at 8:39 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


Would also accept an ending where they just start fucking in the street.
posted by Artw at 8:41 PM on July 12, 2015 [24 favorites]


Everything is terrible. Life is terrible and it would be terrible if there were superheroes. 9-11 would be Superman's fault and Batman would be there but unable to do shit. Then they would fight. Batman is the Tactician Supreme and the World's Greatest Detective; his contingency plans have contingency plans, and he's so many moves ahead of everybody else that he represents a threat even to Superman, but they fight anyway because he's TOO DUMB TO FIGURE OUT THAT THEY'RE ON THE SAME SIDE.

I've been a huge superhero fanatic my entire life and I don't even want to see this. The only brief glimmer of light in the trailer is the appearance of Wonder Woman. They should have just made a Wonder Woman movie and left out all the tiresome, awful shit. Fuck this movie, I hope they lose their shirts and Marvel buries them with goofball space raccoons.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 8:57 PM on July 12, 2015 [12 favorites]


On the plus side the actual DC comics themselves seem to be movie away from the dull 90s grimwank of the Nu52 full steam ahead.
posted by Artw at 9:01 PM on July 12, 2015


Imma see it twice to make Sing or Swim's head explode.
posted by Justinian at 9:01 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


LOOKS FANTASTIC WILL WATCH NINE TIMES.
posted by echocollate at 9:01 PM on July 12, 2015


The V is for scissoring, which is how super-dudes do it.
posted by Artw at 9:03 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


but they fight anyway because he's TOO DUMB TO FIGURE OUT THAT THEY'RE ON THE SAME SIDE.

This is most of what I have seen from the Big Two on the comic book store shelves for years. It's why I stopped buying. It's why I. Just. Don't. Care. Anymore.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:10 PM on July 12, 2015


It'd be neat if in some continuity Batman didn't have a plan to stop Superman and would never actually fight him. On the logic that when Batman tried to think of a plan to stop Superman, they all hinged on Superman fighting like Superman, and not like a proactive killer with all of Superman's power's would. So if Supes is engaging him in a fistfight and not hurling a chunk of depleted uranium through his skull from 200 miles away, or any of the other ways a proactive superman could kill a normal human while keeping out of Kryptonite range Supes must still be enough of himself to be talked down from whatever he's doing that caused the fight.
posted by Grimgrin at 9:11 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


signal: "scaryblackdeath: "but aside from the fact that Wonder Woman genuinely looks good, this totally didn't hold my interest."

Yep. I really wish they'd skipped this grimdarkness and just went straight to a Wonder Woman movie. Probably wish they'd skip the JLA movie, as well.
"

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I would donate one of my redundant organs to see a proper live action J'onn J'onzz. If you do not agree with me, then suck my plasma blasts.
posted by Samizdata at 9:14 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Superman fighting like Superman, and not like a proactive killer with all of Superman's power's would

"so uh there's a watermark in your suit's fabric that says Wayne Enterprises and i just used my superspeed to look up a picture of Bruce Wayne and your chin looks just like his so i guess i'm just gonna hang out in Wayne Mansion until you fall asleep and then murder you when you're in REM"
posted by Greg Nog at 9:16 PM on July 12, 2015 [4 favorites]


I would donate one of my redundant organs to see a proper live action J'onn J'onzz.

I want a Laurence Fishburne J'onn J'onzz SO BAD
posted by Greg Nog at 9:17 PM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]


Brandon Blatcher: "He's Batman"

Nope. Wrong again.

I am Vengeance, I am the Night, I am Batman!
posted by Samizdata at 9:20 PM on July 12, 2015


skewed: "That whole thing about Batman being able to beat anyone, where did that come from?

Well, you can't really write a whole story about how Goliath beats the shit out of David.
"

Planning, bubbleah, planning.
posted by Samizdata at 9:21 PM on July 12, 2015


Really don't understand why people get so upset about it probably being a shitty movie. The superman movies have always been pretty bad. They made maybe 2 or 3 decent batman movies. Kids like them. I liked the first three superman movies when I was a kid, they were all pretty horrible, except for the first one sorta. This one will be better than 4, probably better than 3. It will be better than at least three of the batman movies of the last 25 years.
posted by skewed at 9:23 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


I understand that a few of the comments have been acknowledging Miller's version of the story that includes justification for not only kicking Supes ass, but also how he does it, and (WTF) Wonder Woman? What I don't get is how everyone else seems as though this is some out-of-the-(nonMeFite)-blue version of superhero versus superhero stories. There is a precedent for the story.

More than a few the of folks here on the blue seem to have enjoyed the Nolan Dark Knight trilogy despite his reliance on heavily filtered camera work and Frank Miller influence. I didn't like--despised actually--Man of Steel but I absolutely loved Watchmen, 300, and Sucker Punch. They are what they are and they completely deliver, all with subtleties, nuance and stupidity both unintentional and intended. And used heavily filtered cinematography and heavily Miller-fluenced.

I am just confused by the haterade for the concept of Superman versus Batman. It wasn't Snyder's concept nor has it been proven to be un-executable as a storyline in the past. Yeah, Snyder is breathy and over-dramatic and has a flair for destruction. But so does George Miller, George Lucas, Frank Miller, Frank Black, Jack Black and Black Dahlia. Either watch it or don't. But as many others have pointed out in the last couple of years here on the blue; don't pile on just to jump.

tl;dr: don't hate [x] without knowing [y]
posted by Johnny Hazard at 9:24 PM on July 12, 2015 [5 favorites]


i wish holywood would stop giving zach snyder money to ruin franchises i love.

JimBennett don't like it? Dear holyweird, plz don't stop what you're doing, you crazy diamond
posted by Apocryphon at 9:26 PM on July 12, 2015


They are what they are

bad movies?
posted by Greg Nog at 9:28 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


These new Kents are my kind of people, Kansas nihilists.

What hath Brownback wrought?
posted by Apocryphon at 9:30 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


The thing about TDKR is that it earns its climax, which is the thing the various attempts to bring just that one bit of it to screen have solidly missed on their efforts to jump to the cool bit.
posted by Artw at 9:33 PM on July 12, 2015 [6 favorites]


A super-hero movie I'd watch: The Trip, only with Spider-Woman and Captain Marvel having long metaphysical conversations over sandwiches.
posted by unmake at 9:36 PM on July 12, 2015 [2 favorites]


Also Christopher Nolan was one of the big blockbuster directors these days who uses practical effects instead of CGI.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:36 PM on July 12, 2015


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

Heh. That's the one thing I *am* looking forward to about this movie. I think he's a really good actor and I think he's a very interesting choice for the part.
posted by webmutant at 9:37 PM on July 12, 2015


I think it's more disappointment than haterade

People are afraid that enough multi-million dollar mediocrities will sour studios and audiences on comic book/superhero/sci-fi stuff and we'll stop getting the occasional good stuff
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:42 PM on July 12, 2015


MeFi: Too much grim in you. I don't like that.
DC: Then you're gonna love... these guys!
posted by Apocryphon at 9:43 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


Eh, maybe? I mean, it's not Snyder, that's a plus point, and they seem to be going for a less deadly-dull tone.
posted by Artw at 9:46 PM on July 12, 2015


As long as we're imagining a fantasy Superhero Movie, I'd like a she-hulk movie that's largely a legal court drama, focusing on Jennifer Walters and her paralegal Doreen Green, having to defend Tony Stark in a class action suit, with occasional interludes where they have to beat the holy hell out of some random supervillian before rejoining the main story.

I don't know that She-Hulk and Squirrel Girl have ever teamed up; but She-Hulk being basically too smart to be a superhero, and Squirrel Girl unironically embracing silver age superhero tropes makes me think they'd be a good fit.
posted by Grimgrin at 9:46 PM on July 12, 2015 [9 favorites]


They should have just made a [female superhero] movie and left out all the tiresome, awful shit.

So many of them to choose from, not just Wonder Woman. Birds of Prey. Starfire, the new Conner/Palmiotti version, not the "do you want to teach me your ways of love, earth man" version that led off the New 52. Either the old Gail Simone version of Secret Six or the new one, although Deadshot got co-opted for Suicide Squad. Any of the Batgirls. Hey, crazy thought, how about giving a woman the Green Lantern ring? I mean, make her the main one. Big Barda.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:49 PM on July 12, 2015


Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

I'm glad you said that, because based on that trailer, I legitimately thought he was playing an amalgamation of the Joker and the Riddler. The hysterics at the end, the green shirt with the suit? I'm at a bit of a loss here.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:53 PM on July 12, 2015


I mean, Suicide Squad, I can kinda grant the whole gritty dark morally-ambiguous thing; they're all villains to some degree, that really oughtta be the movie that's about Nasty People Being Superheroes Reluctantly. But Superman should be big, bold, unapologetically goofy and swashbuckling; the same tone that Chris Pratt had for Guardians Of The Galaxy, not the retreading of the same tortured jesus boring man that Snyder did in his first awful Superman movie.

I mean, make her the main one. Big Barda.


Man my ultimate dream would be a Barda/ScottFree romantic-comedy/jailbreak movie
posted by Greg Nog at 9:53 PM on July 12, 2015 [3 favorites]


After Heath Ledger passed away, DC movies is still at the The Dark Knight stage of having knock-offs in hockey pads dressing up as the Joker until a suitable successor can be found.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:54 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


wow another super heroe movie, i thought the spiderman vs. fantastic 8 was going to be the last one ever but i guess not
posted by threeants at 10:02 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


I understand that a few of the comments have been acknowledging Miller's version of the story that includes justification for not only kicking Supes ass, but also how he does it, and (WTF) Wonder Woman? What I don't get is how everyone else seems as though this is some out-of-the-(nonMeFite)-blue version of superhero versus superhero stories. There is a precedent for the story.

Uh, Miller's 30-year-old precedent from DKR has Bats kicking Supes' ass because Superman has become a toady for for the U.S. government and more specifically for the Ronald Reagan brand of cheerfully brainless and saber-rattling conservatism. Bats kicks Superman's ass because Superman ("Truth, Justice, and the American Way") has forgotten that the "truth" and "justice" part should apply to everyone, that a superhero's purpose is to help the weak and powerless, and has allowed someone else's morally corrupt version of "the American Way" to define and guide his actions.

Regardless of whatever libertarian nut-baggery Miller has engaged in over the years, that bit was an effective skewering of a certain kind of American conservatism, and DKR overall is a fairly complex examination of how superheroes might actually interact with something that's actually a recognizable version of our world (rather than the generic "America" that was common in comics up to that time.)

I don't see any of that in this movie - only some of the visuals. Of course, it's only a trailer, so maybe there are more complex themes to be seen in the flick itself - but Snyder being Snyder, I doubt it. He's a very visual director with no grasp of (or interest in, I suspect) character and story beyond the most simplistic, and something that looks cool (for certain parameters of "cool") will always take precedence.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:29 PM on July 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


"Hi Bruce. Yeah, I know who you are. I have this alter ego who's a journalist and I've been investigating the Batman that way? Also I have x-ray vision. Look, I'm really sorry about how Wayne Enterprises suffered major property damage and loss of life when my batshit crazy relatives showed up, but I was hoping you weren't going to blame me for that. I mean, people dying sucks, yeah, but I'm pretty sure you had insurance, and I understand the government is offering financial assistance? But I guess you did blame me. So. That Kryptonite you think is in your car? Yeah, I lasered it out with my eyes. It's sitting on the road about 25 miles back. I thought we could have a little chat. I'm really concerned for you. Is there anything I can do to help you? Maybe help Wayne Enterprises somehow? I've got some skills. I'm just trying to make amends for the batshit crazy relatives, and I'm trying to make a fresh start on this planet. Yeah, sure, hit me with the grappling hook, punch at me with the metal gauntlets, whatever it takes. Just let it all out man, I know you've had a rough time with your parents being killed and all."
posted by A dead Quaker at 10:56 PM on July 12, 2015 [34 favorites]


not the retreading of the same tortured jesus boring man that Snyder did in his first awful Superman movie

Dammit, you made me remember the trailer also has that ultracringeworthy shot of the woman in trouble stretching out her hands to SuperJesus who is just floating there in the clouds with the sun behind him because I guess he needs to pause for a dramatic entrance before he can start helping people because it's not like he can move as quickly as a human rescue team.
posted by straight at 11:02 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


I understand that a few of the comments have been acknowledging Miller's version of the story that includes justification for not only kicking Supes ass, but also how he does it

To be clear, Miller's story is that Batman can only beat Superman if Superman is weakened from a nuclear explosion beforehand and if Batman has Kryptonite and if Batman sacrifices his life to do it and even then Batman only gets the upper hand for a few seconds
posted by mightygodking at 11:27 PM on July 12, 2015 [7 favorites]


I just want a super dance-off, is that too much to ask? Like Batman has arranged it so that a tango partner of just the right height parachutes onto the rooftop and then a rose like pops out of a compartment on his shin for her to clench between her teeth as the bandoleon begins to wheeze, and then Superman falls off the building and you think his cornfed Kansas sensibilities were blown by the Latin-tinged bat-eroticism but then the camera swoops forward and looks down to see the plaza below full of that weird S-marked jackboot army from the last trailer, square dancing with their hands on their hips in perfect formation to the lively Scots reel Superman has struck up on his super-fiddle.
posted by No-sword at 11:32 PM on July 12, 2015 [8 favorites]


Live action Music Master episode of Brave and the Bold.
posted by Artw at 11:48 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm not so sure Snyder is functionally illiterate so much as I'm sure he spends the time any competent filmmaker would use to comprehend trivial things like themes in a hot tub high on cocaine.
posted by Catblack at 11:54 PM on July 12, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Remember Clark, fuck 'em, you got yours."

In fairness, the American Way has always been a big part of the Superman story.

Worth bearing in mind that at the end of this movie Batman and Superman have to be set up to form the JLA.
posted by biffa at 12:34 AM on July 13, 2015


Artw: "the Superman/Barman fight"

'look, I know you can read the giant S on my chest, so I know you're aware that I can actually tell that you're putting far too much tonic and far too little gin in that glass - I mean, goddamn it, Jimmy Olsen, I know you've been down on your luck since the divorce but why did I even get you a job at this place if all you were going to do was ruin my happy hour'
posted by koeselitz at 12:56 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm not a comic book guy, so bear that in mind... but for the average non-comic book reading movie-goer, this seems way too close on the heels of the Chris Nolan Batman movies. I mean, some people are gonna go in thinking that this is kind of a continuation of those, in the same way the Avengers is a continuation of the Iron Man and Thor characters from previous movies... there isn't the same set up of a line of Batman films, where people can go "ok, so I get this version of the character now" - instead it's all going to be in one go. I have my doubts about how successful that will be.

Yeah, I'm still not able to get past Jessie Eisenberg as Luthor.

"If you had weaponised kryptonite, you. would. have. weaponised. kryptonite."
posted by modernnomad at 1:04 AM on July 13, 2015


Dammit, you made me remember the trailer also has that ultracringeworthy shot of the woman in trouble stretching out her hands to SuperJesus who is just floating there in the clouds with the sun behind him

That's the worst thing about movies Superman, even occasionally on show in the original Reeves ones, that idea of him as Superjesus, somebody to worship and be in awe off, rather than a friendly pal who gets your cat out of the tree.

What I want to see is a World Finest Batman/Superman teamup, where each play to their own strengths but respect and like the other one.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:14 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


To be clear, Miller's story is that Batman can only beat Superman if Superman is weakened from a nuclear explosion beforehand and if Batman has Kryptonite and if Batman sacrifices his life to do it and even then Batman only gets the upper hand for a few seconds

That's just like people, always forgetting the nuclear bomb
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:20 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


Cherchez la bomb, as they say.
posted by No-sword at 2:54 AM on July 13, 2015


Oh boy... was board with that before I even got half-way through watching, so I'm not holding out much hope for the actual movie. Perhaps I'll do what I did with Sucker Punch and just watch the fight scenes / obvious music video bits... though I've not even summoned enough enthusiasm to do even that with Man of Steel yet.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:25 AM on July 13, 2015


"I'm not so sure Snyder is functionally illiterate so much as I'm sure he spends the time any competent filmmaker would use to comprehend trivial things like themes in a hot tub high on cocaine."

This is the part of MetaFilter I hate.....

Being critical of someone's art is one thing...making this kind of statement about an individual is just downright slander. But, we do love our hatefests here, don't we? Even when it means dragging good people through the muck just for the lols.
posted by HuronBob at 3:52 AM on July 13, 2015 [6 favorites]


I saw this Saturday night and was like,

what the fuck did I just watch
posted by Kitteh at 4:02 AM on July 13, 2015


Do you remember this first trailer for Man of Steel? It made you think that we were getting Superman: The Terrence Malick Movie and then the actual move was nothing like that.
posted by octothorpe at 4:02 AM on July 13, 2015


Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice trailer analysis Some potential spoilers for the film in there... they are only going by what's in the trailer, but if you go essential frame by frame, that's a lot.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:23 AM on July 13, 2015


If you pause the trailer at 1:17 there's a moment where Clark Kent is smiling sort of not entirely frowning.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:24 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


It'll all be worth it when we finally get to the Ambush Bug movie.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 4:28 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm glad you said that, because based on that trailer, I legitimately thought he was playing an amalgamation of the Joker and the Riddler.

You're ahead of me, until I came in here my best guess was Jimmy Olsen.
posted by biffa at 4:30 AM on July 13, 2015


I remember reading a fun DC/Marvel crossover which had Superman initially fighting Spiderman (spiderman had been enchanted with red kryptonite by Lex Luthor I think?)

But the fight ends with Superman realising that punching Spiderman full on would kill him and that would be bad.
They then team up to fight someone, I don't remember, but throughout Superman solves everything while spiderman makes quips and has a fun time.

There is a scene where a computer with info they needed blows up but superman uses his X-Ray vision, photographic memory and super speed to instantly rebuilt it, but then doesn't know how to use it, so Spiderman has to look up the info.

It's a great parable of the DC / Marvel difference. Superman can (and does) do everything (and is boring), Spiderman is tremendously limited but has a fun time.
20 years on and the same thing is happening in the respective films.

DC has a god who can juggle moons fighting a billionaire super detective. Marvel has a raccoon with a gun or a man who can shrink to the size of an ant.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:37 AM on July 13, 2015


That whole thing about Batman being able to beat anyone, where did that come from?

Rich white male privilege?

Seriously, Bats has the best super power of all: rich white guy.
posted by davros42 at 4:44 AM on July 13, 2015 [12 favorites]


If Superman doesn't win I quit.
posted by Splunge at 4:53 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Well, as mightygodking alluded to above, in the story being adapted here, Superman does win. Batman builds a super suit of armor, runs all of Gotham City's electricity through Superman's body (which has been weakened by the nuclear blast he was at the center of 20 pages previously), hits him with Kryptonite, and Superman still rips the armor from him like it was made of paper. Then, when Batman fakes his heart attack and the army shows up, Superman tells them to stay away, and they do, because even in his weakened bloody state he could kill all of them with a minimum of effort.

That, and the affection that Clark has for Bruce, are the only reason Superman doesn't kill him immediately.

All of this is leading to the JLA movie, so they are going to have the fight, Superman is going to win, they are going to realize Lex is the real bad guy, and they are going to team up and defeat him, and then do the whole Batman/Superman frenemies thing.

What I think is weirder is the Suicide Squad trailer, which clearly shows Batman in it as a supporting character. Batman being in a movie where he is not the main character is a new thing, and I wonder how it's going to work.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:00 AM on July 13, 2015


I didn't like--despised actually--Man of Steel but I absolutely loved Watchmen, 300, and Sucker Punch. They are what they are and they completely deliver, all with subtleties, nuance and stupidity both unintentional and intended.

I also really liked Watchmen, mostly because Snyder was slavishly loyal to the source material to the point where the comic was the movie's storyboard. (He also wisely cut some of the fat - the pirate comic, the giant monster part of Ozymandias's plot, etc.) When he adapts a specific graphic novel to the screen, it can turn out really well, and look absolutely beautiful. It's when he makes too many character/theme/plot decisions that everything falls apart. Somebody needs to tell Snyder, "Look, just take this extremely well-written comic book and make the people move. That's all you have to do."

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you want to subvert Superman? Three words: RED SON MOVIE. Zach Snyder can even direct it if he promises not to change anything. Yes, people would go apeshit over a communist Superman but come on, it would be amazing. And it provides a reasonable explanation for why Batman and Superman fight. (Batman's parents were arrested by the KGB and died in a gulag.)
posted by Anyamatopoeia at 5:01 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


The Suicide Squad trailer is also weird because why is there a Suicide Squad movie? It's not like your average 40 year old has a really fond childhood memory of reading Captain Boomerang stories.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:01 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


He also wisely cut some of the fat - the pirate comic

BROADSWORDS IN A PIT
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:03 AM on July 13, 2015 [5 favorites]


The Suicide Squad trailer is also weird because why is there a Suicide Squad movie?

I've never read the comics, but it's a GREAT premise, so why not? Done well, it could introduce a lot of places and characters in exciting ways.

Done well.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:47 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Den of Geek have started a book on how long it's going to be... they are plumping for 161 mins
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:22 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Batman being in a movie where he is not the main character is a new thing

Au contraire! Lego Movie Batman was a secondary character and the best Batman in DECADES.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:31 AM on July 13, 2015 [10 favorites]


"The Suicide Squad trailer is also weird because why is there a Suicide Squad movie? It's not like your average 40 year old has a really fond childhood memory of reading Captain Boomerang stories."

I am 39, and I have very fond memories of reading the 1980s run of Suicide Squad. It was really good, and basically still holds up.
posted by joelhunt at 6:32 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Au contraire! Lego Movie Batman was a secondary character and the best Batman in DECADES.

I am 39, and I have very fond memories of reading the 1980s run of Suicide Squad. It was really good, and basically still holds up.

Touché!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:36 AM on July 13, 2015


I understand that in the extended Blueray special edition directors cut of the movie they will have a scene where someone's smiling. Of course they did have to bring in a second director to explain the concept.
posted by happyroach at 7:02 AM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


. But, we do love our hatefests here, don't we? Even when it means dragging good people through the muck just for the lols.

perhaps Snyder will rise above this, with his arms outstretched, like some kind of christ figure
posted by Greg Nog at 7:04 AM on July 13, 2015 [17 favorites]


Maybe all the other heroes they introduce in this movie (Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Aquaman) end up rescuing all those people in the falling buildings in Metropolis.

And leprechaun's could fly out my back side.
posted by Billiken at 7:06 AM on July 13, 2015


I liked Man of Steel -- it's not the Superman movie I would have hoped for, but that doesn't make it a bad movie -- and I think this looks promising. ...Except for Jesse Eisenberg. And I just want to say, for all that people complain about the various portrayals of Superman (George Reeves is Superman, as far as I'm concerned, but sadly he's off the table), I am utterly stymied as to why it is it's so hard to do Lex Luthor right. This Luthor just looks flat-out awful and more like some ersatz Joker-meets-Halt-and-Catch-Fire guy than any recognizable version of the character, and I just don't get it. I feel like Jon Hamm in the Funny or Die video from some years ago is somehow the closest to a proper live action Luthor that I've ever seen.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:12 AM on July 13, 2015




The City of Metropolis v. Superman. A superhero version of A Few Good Men.

Thanks, pre-Flophouse Flophouse!
Related: Superman vs. Humanities Professor, Superman vs. Man and Superman, Battle of the Supermen
posted by Going To Maine at 7:15 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I have no great expectations for this. The only Snyder film I really liked was The Watchmen. But as was pointed out above, at least they are using the disaster from Man of Steel to kick this into motion. That shows someone was thinking. It does need more Wonder Woman and it's 180 degrees from the sheer blast of joyous entertainment the best Marvel movies have been. This trailer probably merited a few gleeful chuckles in the Marvel studios office.

One quick question, why'd they let Snyder direct when they obviously had a better director right there, wearing the goddamn Batsuit?
posted by Ber at 7:20 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Lego Movie Batman was a secondary character and the best Batman in DECADES.

Take heart - judging by this trailer, it looks like they are taking their colour palette from Lego Movie Batman.
posted by nubs at 7:30 AM on July 13, 2015


Well, I guess "Man Who Sold the World"-era Bowie is a visual approach to Lex Luthor that I've never seen before.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:34 AM on July 13, 2015


I kind of like Lex Luthor by way of Mark Zuckerberg, to be honest. No movie Luthor has every really worked, so they might as well try something radically different, but keeping with the whole Corporate Overlord thing. That or, like, Lex Luthor as the Koch Brothers.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:49 AM on July 13, 2015


I am 39, and I have very fond memories of reading the 1980s run of Suicide Squad. It was really good, and basically still holds up.

Yes, but this is the slim supermodel Waller Suicide Squad, not the one with the woman who stared down Batman and won.
posted by MartinWisse at 7:49 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Viola Davis is definitely not a slim Amanda Waller. If you want a slim supermodel Amanda Waller, Arrow has got that for you.
posted by Kitteh at 7:53 AM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


a scene where someone's smiling

That right there is where I start with my objections to Snyder's take on Superman. I mean, if Batman is all scowly and broody for the whole running length of the movie, that's not without precedent, either in the comics or in the movies, so I'll accept it. Although I will note in passing that even the Christopher Nolan Batman shared a joke with Alfred once in a while.

On the other hand: Superman ought to smile at least occasionally, and preferably often. It should be an easy, open grin. It's pretty important that Superman be both friendly and morally impeccable, because given his power levels the alternative is terrifying.

And what a surprise, the same guy who misses this point misses that Superman ought not to kill, as well. You know, I can understand why someone who knows Snyder personally might object to the rhetorical treatment the guy gets in these threads, but the rest of us don't have the benefit (?) of personal familiarity with the guy to inform our reaction to this stuff. Snyder might be the nicest person in the world, but he's an awful director who's handling an important character in the worst possible fashion. And it's not a subtle mistake, it's glaringly wrong and tone-deaf.
posted by Ipsifendus at 7:54 AM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]


These new Kents are my kind of people, Kansas nihilists.

At least it's an ethos.
posted by Naberius at 8:01 AM on July 13, 2015 [9 favorites]


I know it won't happen, but the existence of a Suicide Squad movie makes me really hope for an appearance of Father Richard Craemer on the big screen. And then his own series where he goes around counselling superheroes having spiritual crises.
posted by charred husk at 8:49 AM on July 13, 2015


The Suicide Squad trailer is also weird because why is there a Suicide Squad movie? It's not like your average 40 year old has a really fond childhood memory of reading Captain Boomerang stories.

DC needs its Guardians of the Galaxy.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:01 AM on July 13, 2015


If it wanted a GotG, it could do the Booster/Beetle era Justice League, but we all know the concept of fun has been stripped from the Warner/DC cinematic universe.
posted by sardonyx at 9:03 AM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


One thing I've learned over the years is that whenever heroes are set up to fight each other, the loser ends up being whoever made them fight. And audiences have been clamoring to have Batman and Superman fight for ages.
posted by ckape at 10:55 AM on July 13, 2015 [6 favorites]


The Suicide Squad preview from SDCC finally got posted officially, if you care to look at something nicer than bad cellphone camera footage.
posted by sparkletone at 1:36 PM on July 13, 2015


The Suicide Squad trailer is also weird because why is there a Suicide Squad movie?

I assumed it was DC scrambling to do a villains movie because Sony/Marvel was planning a Sinister Six movie.
posted by straight at 2:18 PM on July 13, 2015


the existence of a Suicide Squad movie makes me really hope for an appearance of Father Richard Craemer on the big screen. And then his own series where he goes around counselling superheroes having spiritual crises.

What. Snyder already gave you that scene with Clark sharing his angst to a priest with stained-glass Jesus over his shoulder (GET IT?!), and we all know how great that turned out.
posted by straight at 2:23 PM on July 13, 2015


The worst part is how dour everything is. Snyder's characters make Wolverine seem about as grimdark as Squirrel Girl.
posted by straight at 2:28 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Jesus, that Suicide Squad trailer. Even the DC logo was all scratched metal grimdark.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 2:51 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


This GIF syncing a scene from Man of Steel with the Batman vs Superman trailer is pretty neat.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:54 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


My reaction to the Suicide Squad trailer: "Well, that is a thing that certainly exists."
posted by Kitteh at 3:14 PM on July 13, 2015


See, that GIF is cool, and I'd actually be interested in watching a dark movie about how terrifying it would be to live in a world with superbeings fighting each other.

I just don't want that to be a Superman / Batman movie.

The problem is that for everyone like me who is interested in Superman as a character, there's a bunch of people like Snyder who are interested in Superman as a concept. It's like if every movie about a detective had to be a Sherlock Holmes movie because for most people the idea of a detective was synonymous with Sherlock Holmes.

Spiderman, Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America are, for most people, more characters than concepts. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman (and maybe Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman) are, for a whole lot of people, more concepts than characters.
posted by straight at 3:17 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


As one illustration of what I'm getting at, I think if you ask, "What would Thor or Iron Man or Captain America do in this situation," most people will answer based on stories they've seen or read about those characters. But if you ask, "What would Superman or Batman do in this situation," I think you'd get a lot more people answering the question personally "What would I do if I had Superman's powers?" or hypothetically, "What would a Superman being be like?"
posted by straight at 3:21 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is the part of MetaFilter I hate.....

Being critical of someone's art is one thing...making this kind of statement about an individual is just downright slander. But, we do love our hatefests here, don't we? Even when it means dragging good people through the muck just for the lols.


Seriously guys, how dare you talk about cocaine that way! There's a lot of valid criticisms you can lay at its feet, but giving the blame for Synder's drek is a bridge too far.
posted by FatherDagon at 3:26 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


What kind of fucking knife was he using to saw that steak in the Suicide Squad trailer? They can't even do a proper steak knife, jesus h.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:32 PM on July 13, 2015


Suicide Squad isn't grimdark. It's more like dated late '90s pop punk edginess.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:32 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


"If it wanted a GotG, it could do the Booster/Beetle era Justice League, but we all know the concept of fun has been stripped from the Warner/DC cinematic universe."

You know I blame DC for trying to be the exact opposite of Marvel and the 80's by being all dark and gritty. Think of the highly acclaim comic books that critics outside the comic book industry fawn over:

Watchman
The Dark Knight Returns
The Killing Joke
Kingdom Come

Rarely are Marvel comics listed.

WB wants you view their group of comic movies as critical acclaim masterpieces. So now we are stuck with a competing set of super heroes who are too dark. It's the opposite of the Golden and Silver age of comics which were fun, out there while Marvel was the serious, realistic group of heroes.
posted by hawaiitron at 3:33 PM on July 13, 2015


Wow SS looks absolutely awful on every single level. I hope it sends both WB and DC bankrupt and destroys the careers of everybody involved in it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:36 PM on July 13, 2015


That seems a little extreme. Also, Man of Steel made over $600 million dollars, and Arrow and the Flash are hits. The JLA movie is coming and nothing can stop it.

I do look forward to the first Amalgam Universe movie, due to come out in 2037.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:40 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Think of the highly acclaim comic books that critics outside the comic book industry fawn over:

Oh! Like Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Nextwave, Young Avengers, and Squirrel Girl?

Watchman
The Dark Knight Returns
The Killing Joke
Kingdom Come


Oh, you meant critics 30 years ago.
posted by straight at 3:45 PM on July 13, 2015 [4 favorites]


Do critics outside the industry talk about those books, though? I don't remember seeing an article about The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl anywhere less comics-oriented than The AV Club, although certainly I'd love to. Mainstream critics don't seem to talk about superhero comics much at all in 2015.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:53 PM on July 13, 2015


Oh, you meant critics 30 years ago.

Right, the ones paid attention to by the people making movies today. The Squirrel Girl movie comes in 2045.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:06 PM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


Coming Soon: MAUS
posted by Artw at 5:42 PM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


As six three hour movies.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:43 PM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


I was hoping for something like Rocky 3.

After the disaster in Metropolis, Superman realizes he's not the fighter he needs to be.

Batman trains him, they hug on the beach, and Superman beats the next villain without taking out half a city.
posted by concrete at 5:48 PM on July 13, 2015 [2 favorites]


I also really liked Watchmen, mostly because Snyder was slavishly loyal to the source material to the point where the comic was the movie's storyboard.

Oh man, I really don't agree with this at all, in part because I think it's possible to do a panel-for-panel recreation without being loyal to the source material. Adrian Veidt's characterization is just one of the most egregious from a myriad of examples of how the movie manages that -- it imports his incredible on-paper competence, of course, because representing on-paper character traits is simple, but the guy is also supposed to be impossibly charismatic, reassuring and warm in affect. There's an aloofness to him to be sure, but I have no idea what inspired them to make him into a kind of cerebral vampire on-screen.

Whenever this comes up, I always think about how it was just...weird.
posted by invitapriore at 6:49 PM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]


Best bit of Watchmen was the title sequence, which was original to the film and was genuinely good - shake about what followed.
posted by Artw at 8:19 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


I'm hoping someone will recut this trailer with footage and lines from Daredevil... and maybe a bit of Gigli too.
posted by markkraft at 8:47 PM on July 13, 2015


Imagine Ben Affleck speaking to Superman slowly and menacingly, over a dark, sweeping superhero score, with quickcuts through a mess of various explosive footage...
"In every relationship, there's a bull, and a cow..."
posted by markkraft at 8:54 PM on July 13, 2015


Grantland: An Obsessive Batman v. Superman Dawn of Justice Comic Con Trailer Deconstruction

Jeffrey Dean Morgan (the Comedian from Snyder’s Watchmen) plays Thomas Wayne, the doomed father of Batman. This should be a very helpful scene for everyone in the audience who isn’t aware that Batman’s parents are dead.
posted by nubs at 9:22 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


DARKNESS!
posted by Artw at 9:47 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


Phlegmco(tm): “That whole thing about Batman being able to beat anyone, where did that come from?”

It came from the exact same place as the whole thing about Superman being able to beat anyone: the habit superhero comics have of constantly upping antes. In this case, though, it's also fueled by (altogether proper) resentment over the vast stupidity of the whole thing in the case of Superman at this point. Yeah, lasers from eyes. Smarter than supercomputers. Mind-control and telepathy. Ability to eat hamburgers at an extraordinary rate. Seriously, after all the ridiculous powers they've given Superman over the course of his existence, it's actually difficult to believe that they can still write stories about him; every single one of his adventures ought to end on the first page with his use of some combination of two or three of his powers.

Superman is the best example of the perils of making a character all-powerful; you close off narrative possibilities. The bravest thing they ever did with him was kill him; that didn't take, though.

That's why people love to see Batman beat Superman; because Batman actually has vulnerability and something to lose. And Batman, at least, has an interesting history of thought about what justice means woven into his fabric. Unfortunately the character himself is pretty dour and humorless, and at this point is really more of a caricature; Ben Affleck can say all he wants that Batman is "the American Hamlet," and I'm sure it's somewhat true, but after a while there aren't a lot of ways to go with the brooding billionaire. People here kvetch about how every Batman movie is apparently contractually obligated to rehearse the by now woefully familiar story of his parents' death, but the trouble is that giving him a backstory is basically the only way to give Batman depth as a character by giving him some inner tension and a drive to solve crimes. Otherwise, you've just got a really rich dude who likes beating up criminals, to whom crime and justice are not personal in any way. It's possible to go in the other direction and age him up, a la Frank Miller (or, to some degree, the last Nolan movie), imbuing him with the sense of an older man rediscovering his long-lost purpose, but that's sort of painting yourself into a box, too. Still, it's less one-dimensional than Superman, I guess.
posted by koeselitz at 10:30 PM on July 13, 2015 [1 favorite]


This bit from the Grantland deconstruction is pure gold:
So far, this trailer really has me jazzed about this movie. I have a high tolerance for heady meditations on the ethics of superpowered beings in the world, but your mileage may vary. No matter how you feel about this new footage, you have to admit it does a spectacular job of establishing that the style of this film will be much, much different from the Nolan Batman movies, or even Man of Steel. I’m totally in!

(screencap FROM DIRECTOR ZACH SNYDER)

Aww, shit.
posted by Justinian at 12:17 AM on July 14, 2015 [1 favorite]


It's impressive how even big Hollywood movie trailers make the same sort of mistakes I just emailed a friend about the other day so he could fix his movie's trailer on YouTube: Totally fucked up black levels.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:43 AM on July 14, 2015


Snyder is not a hack, he is the best second-unit director working in Hollywood today.

I know that this is meant as a joke, but it just makes me realize how lucky Disney is to have John Mahaffie on speed-dial.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:01 AM on July 14, 2015


Inevitable, in retrospect....
posted by sparkletone at 8:27 PM on July 14, 2015


Snyder would be good to do a Miracleman movie, which touches on the superjesus themes much more explicitly. Bates destroying London could be recut from the last Superman movie.
posted by benzenedream at 9:26 PM on July 14, 2015


"Seriously, after all the ridiculous powers they've given Superman over the course of his existence, it's actually difficult to believe that they can still write stories about him; every single one of his adventures ought to end on the first page with his use of some combination of two or three of his powers."

They need to have Superman attacked by psionic aliens, only to be saved by Tomorrow Woman... who, in the process of saving him, transfers over her telepathic powers.

Next thing you know, Superman starts bouncing eye lasers off of geostationary satellites, zapping potential evildoers before they've even committed the crime.

"Suicide by Superman" becomes a worldwide phenomenon.
posted by markkraft at 8:07 AM on July 15, 2015


It'd be nice if, in that scenario, Superman became Roko's Basilisk.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:39 AM on July 15, 2015




First they took away Superman's red superbriefs, and now they're making Ben Grimm go commando.
posted by straight at 3:11 PM on July 16, 2015


We're really going to keep evoking 9/11 in action movies, huh?

Yup. Stay classy, Snyder.
posted by homunculus at 12:17 AM on July 17, 2015


Stop Making Superhero Movies Just for Grownups

I couldn't disagree more with this. Everywhere you look, PG-13 movies abound so that kids and kidults will be attracted to them. There is the entire marvel universe, for crying out loud. There's star wars. There's star trek. The "children and infantalized-adult neckbeards" demographic is fully, completely, and utterly already catered to by Hollywood.

If people want to ALSO create some darker, "adult" movies that are not aimed at kids, I say more power to them. I don't think there's any risk of drowning out more family-friendly cinema fare anytime soon.

I have no idea if this movie will actually do this or be any good, but at least it seems to be trying something different.
posted by modernnomad at 8:43 PM on July 17, 2015


Figuring out if Ant Man would be okay to go see with the kid. Wouldn't be asking that question of a DC movie obvs.
posted by Artw at 8:45 PM on July 17, 2015


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