Pregnancy is brutal
August 31, 2015 11:00 PM Subscribe
"It took me eighteen weeks to heal. I never did manage to breastfeed properly, either gross incompetence on my part or possibly my body deciding: what the fuck, man. My hair went grey. I didn’t try to ask for support, at least until I started showing PTSD symptoms and developed Postpartum Psychosis. The experience had taught us that I was essentially disposable, and I didn’t trust the hospital enough to return. I sought help from other services instead. I heard voices, ringing in empty rooms. I heard constant crying while the baby was asleep."
This contains graphic descriptions of a hard pregnancy and birth.
This contains graphic descriptions of a hard pregnancy and birth.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
[really long drawn-out series of expletives] hell damnation and shitfire...
posted by prismatic7 at 11:22 PM on August 31, 2015
posted by prismatic7 at 11:22 PM on August 31, 2015
I think they wrote 2nd degree tears and natural birth because they were afraid of getting sued for malpractice.
posted by benzenedream at 11:52 PM on August 31, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 11:52 PM on August 31, 2015 [17 favorites]
I will never understand why everybody is so invested in believing that other people's pain and suffering is not real unless it fits in a category they understand (gunshot wound, cancer, car accident).
Do people honestly believe that others make it up for fun or attention? It's like suggesting that schizophrenics want to hear voices.
Also, what is up with judging people for having a c-section? It's like they think my mother wanted to get cut open three times in a row and get stapled closed on the last one.
Seems like a good time to remember that my mother did more for me than I'll ever be capable of understanding. No, not everybody is unlucky enough to go through this, but I'm never going to assume that pregnancy is a picnic even in the best circumstances, because, holy crap, a lot of women still die of it in this day and age.
posted by Strudel at 12:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
Do people honestly believe that others make it up for fun or attention? It's like suggesting that schizophrenics want to hear voices.
Also, what is up with judging people for having a c-section? It's like they think my mother wanted to get cut open three times in a row and get stapled closed on the last one.
Seems like a good time to remember that my mother did more for me than I'll ever be capable of understanding. No, not everybody is unlucky enough to go through this, but I'm never going to assume that pregnancy is a picnic even in the best circumstances, because, holy crap, a lot of women still die of it in this day and age.
posted by Strudel at 12:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
I hope for the sake of all that is holy that she considers a malpractice suit.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:21 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:21 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
So I had a far less complicated pregnancy and birth and my doctors cared more.
And I was still exhausted from stress and pain and lack of sleep before labor even started. I was probably only sleeping four hours a night and freaking out about everything. Everything hurt. In labor I had barely a tear and only lost normal amounts of fluid. I was terrified near the end of labor because they said the baby wasn't getting enough oxygen but the mask made me panic. I could still barely sit-up or stand with help (a bar or a person) for the first week. For the first few days I couldn't tell when I had to pee. Even for weeks after I would sometimes go to get up and just not have the energy. I regularly lost control of my bladder for months. I remember once about six weeks after birth just peeing in the kitchen on the way to the bathroom because I just could not hold it. I would break out crying for no reason at all (or over tiny things) for months (I am still more prone to crying almost two years later.) My body is, despite being in the best shape I've been in decades, weird and floppy in places. I have persistent ear infections that started during pregnancy.
So when people are dismissive about the cost of pregnancy I get really angry. You don't even need to have been treated badly to feel that way.
posted by R343L at 2:38 AM on September 1, 2015 [68 favorites]
And I was still exhausted from stress and pain and lack of sleep before labor even started. I was probably only sleeping four hours a night and freaking out about everything. Everything hurt. In labor I had barely a tear and only lost normal amounts of fluid. I was terrified near the end of labor because they said the baby wasn't getting enough oxygen but the mask made me panic. I could still barely sit-up or stand with help (a bar or a person) for the first week. For the first few days I couldn't tell when I had to pee. Even for weeks after I would sometimes go to get up and just not have the energy. I regularly lost control of my bladder for months. I remember once about six weeks after birth just peeing in the kitchen on the way to the bathroom because I just could not hold it. I would break out crying for no reason at all (or over tiny things) for months (I am still more prone to crying almost two years later.) My body is, despite being in the best shape I've been in decades, weird and floppy in places. I have persistent ear infections that started during pregnancy.
So when people are dismissive about the cost of pregnancy I get really angry. You don't even need to have been treated badly to feel that way.
posted by R343L at 2:38 AM on September 1, 2015 [68 favorites]
So I am 16 weeks pregnant and amazed (more horrified ) at this story. That poor woman. what the hell kind of doctors allow that to happen? Not that I was shy about being an advocate for myself before, but holy hell will I be vocal about my pain/needs during the next five months.
Jesus
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 2:39 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Jesus
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 2:39 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hmm, that's kind of how I imagined all pregnancies went down (without the foot stabbing incident, anyway) and one of the many, many reasons I plan on not having kids. I guess it's reassuring to hear that isn't the norm.
Kind of like how we had a friend and her baby stay last week and the baby screamed for two solid days, and broke everything he could get his hands on, and she was amazed I was so patient about it all. That was because I thought that was what babies DID and so I had already steeled myself for a thoroughly unpleasant two days without sleep in any case. But it turns out that was actually what teething+growth spurt + incipient virus looks like rather than Babies As Normal.
I think I need to de-bleak my worldview, at least as far as pregnancy, birth and small humans are concerned.
posted by lollusc at 2:41 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Kind of like how we had a friend and her baby stay last week and the baby screamed for two solid days, and broke everything he could get his hands on, and she was amazed I was so patient about it all. That was because I thought that was what babies DID and so I had already steeled myself for a thoroughly unpleasant two days without sleep in any case. But it turns out that was actually what teething+growth spurt + incipient virus looks like rather than Babies As Normal.
I think I need to de-bleak my worldview, at least as far as pregnancy, birth and small humans are concerned.
posted by lollusc at 2:41 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, actually there was one bit that surprised me, and that was where she said she was "weeks overdue". Is that just poetic licence, or does that actually happen? I knew it could be days, maybe even a week or a week and half, but multiple weeks? Goddamn.
posted by lollusc at 2:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 2:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh blood! So you know, normal pregnancy recovery? Could mean your heaviest period for six weeks straight. That's normal. As in they don't worry it's busted. It's only if it goes on for like three months before they worry (or it's too heavy after the first week). But still, soaking four plus pads a day for like two months. Normal.
What I'm saying: this person's experiences are extra awful but even normal stuff is pretty awful. If you had caregivers (or partner or relatives) who weren't explaining or sympathetic (and there are sadly a lot), it would seem even worse.
posted by R343L at 2:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
What I'm saying: this person's experiences are extra awful but even normal stuff is pretty awful. If you had caregivers (or partner or relatives) who weren't explaining or sympathetic (and there are sadly a lot), it would seem even worse.
posted by R343L at 2:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh wow, this.
I was 37 when I attemped pregnancy. Lost the baby after over three months of feeling worse than I thought possible, losing weight and being unable to sleep. Lost my job. Was repeatedly told "God only gives us what we can handle" by useless in-laws. Most horrifying was the attitude of every medical professional I dealt with, all of whom insisted that I was DOING IT WRONG. "Eat soda crackers, you'll be fine!" The miscarriage was a nightmare, with so much blood and pain meds delayed for hours because they needed "the doctor's okay, and we can't reach him."
I have not willingly gone to a doctor since that experience. Meanwhile, my MD has just begun serving a lengthy term for murdering his wife.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:49 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
I was 37 when I attemped pregnancy. Lost the baby after over three months of feeling worse than I thought possible, losing weight and being unable to sleep. Lost my job. Was repeatedly told "God only gives us what we can handle" by useless in-laws. Most horrifying was the attitude of every medical professional I dealt with, all of whom insisted that I was DOING IT WRONG. "Eat soda crackers, you'll be fine!" The miscarriage was a nightmare, with so much blood and pain meds delayed for hours because they needed "the doctor's okay, and we can't reach him."
I have not willingly gone to a doctor since that experience. Meanwhile, my MD has just begun serving a lengthy term for murdering his wife.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:49 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
That's really horrifying and awful. The whole thing is so complicated because the whole culture of motherhood and pregnancy (rightly) encourages women to be proud of how their bodies look and work while carrying and after giving birth, it's also good and okay for women to say no, I'm not going to put my body through that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Ugh. My pregnancy was miserable - lost 8 kg in the first 10 weeks from an utter inability to even look at any food, bone-tires all the time, tons of joint pain and awful pain like someone was pushing as hard as they could on a bruise on my pubic bone. Sleeping poorly, random blood sugar crashes all the time at the same time my GP was telling me I was too fat and needed to eat less.
My pregnancy was recorded as "no complications."
26 hours of labor, progressed my way through all available pain relief, was put on a drip to try to speed things up, eventually got to the pushing phase but the baby's heartbeat kept dropping so I went from monitoring by one midwife to five OBs in the room all of a sudden. Eventually figured out my kid was posterior (my pre-epidural attempts to inform them that I desperately felt like I had to push, which I knew I should not, since I was only like 3 cm dilated, and thus something was not quit right, fell on deaf ears, potentially because I was in excruciating pain and trying to fight the contractions to avoid pushing and was thus not communicating clearly). They fully prepped me for a c-section just in case before taking a scalpel and forceps to my crotch and yanked my kid out. I hemmorraged, they took ages to sew me up, and then I had to sit in recovery away from her for almost an hour. So I went nearly 2 hours before I ever held or tried to feed my baby. My husband got lots of great time with her, but I'm still a little bitter about this.
Labor was recovered in my notes as "normal."
My episiotomy stitches split after I went home and got infected so that was over 8 weeks to fully heal. My joints are still stiff and painful - I can't walk down stairs at normal speed most days. Not to mention blah blah blah fat and saggy boobs and etc.
My experience doesn't compare at all to hers, but it's still not something I'd wish on my worst enemy if they were not 100% emotionally committed to popping out that baby and considered it a valid means to an end. Pregnancy and childbirth have absolutely solidified my pro-choice feelings. And it really does suck for your symptoms and experiences and wounds to be dismissed as normal or no big deal, whether it's by friends and family or by medically professionals. That's a good point, that the same injuries sustained in a car accident would inspire sympathy and care, whereas with childbirth it's just "meh. Walk it off." I hadn't thought of it that way before.
posted by olinerd at 3:28 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
My pregnancy was recorded as "no complications."
26 hours of labor, progressed my way through all available pain relief, was put on a drip to try to speed things up, eventually got to the pushing phase but the baby's heartbeat kept dropping so I went from monitoring by one midwife to five OBs in the room all of a sudden. Eventually figured out my kid was posterior (my pre-epidural attempts to inform them that I desperately felt like I had to push, which I knew I should not, since I was only like 3 cm dilated, and thus something was not quit right, fell on deaf ears, potentially because I was in excruciating pain and trying to fight the contractions to avoid pushing and was thus not communicating clearly). They fully prepped me for a c-section just in case before taking a scalpel and forceps to my crotch and yanked my kid out. I hemmorraged, they took ages to sew me up, and then I had to sit in recovery away from her for almost an hour. So I went nearly 2 hours before I ever held or tried to feed my baby. My husband got lots of great time with her, but I'm still a little bitter about this.
Labor was recovered in my notes as "normal."
My episiotomy stitches split after I went home and got infected so that was over 8 weeks to fully heal. My joints are still stiff and painful - I can't walk down stairs at normal speed most days. Not to mention blah blah blah fat and saggy boobs and etc.
My experience doesn't compare at all to hers, but it's still not something I'd wish on my worst enemy if they were not 100% emotionally committed to popping out that baby and considered it a valid means to an end. Pregnancy and childbirth have absolutely solidified my pro-choice feelings. And it really does suck for your symptoms and experiences and wounds to be dismissed as normal or no big deal, whether it's by friends and family or by medically professionals. That's a good point, that the same injuries sustained in a car accident would inspire sympathy and care, whereas with childbirth it's just "meh. Walk it off." I hadn't thought of it that way before.
posted by olinerd at 3:28 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
Jesus, I have no words. I'm appalled. I really don't think I would've survived that. If any of my pregnancies/births had gone down like that, I think I would've just given up and died. I mean it.
Last year my husband and I chatted with a hospital OB/gyn at a neighbourhood BBQ. And she was so utterly, horribly contemptuous of her patients and their pain and fear that my husband got angry and ended up having a heated argument with her. (I froze; it's been years but it's still too raw.*)
I do not understand why there is such a pervasive lack of empathy towards women going through pregnancy and childbirth, but yeah it's a thing among medical professionals, too.
*Our wonderful kids are in their tweens now and I still don't feel comfortable thinking or talking about the experience of giving birth, not that it was half as gory as the OP but basically because both times left me feeling like a total failure.
posted by sively at 3:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
Last year my husband and I chatted with a hospital OB/gyn at a neighbourhood BBQ. And she was so utterly, horribly contemptuous of her patients and their pain and fear that my husband got angry and ended up having a heated argument with her. (I froze; it's been years but it's still too raw.*)
I do not understand why there is such a pervasive lack of empathy towards women going through pregnancy and childbirth, but yeah it's a thing among medical professionals, too.
*Our wonderful kids are in their tweens now and I still don't feel comfortable thinking or talking about the experience of giving birth, not that it was half as gory as the OP but basically because both times left me feeling like a total failure.
posted by sively at 3:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [12 favorites]
Oh, and this:
posted by sively at 3:42 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
- People call you a hero for surviving. This is what happens if you are in an automobile accident.
posted by sively at 3:42 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
The baby was tiny, I had to eat better, I was massively overweight, I had to diet. Whatever I did, I was wrong.
It enrages me that so many people, even doctors who should know better, attribute so much of pregnancy to the actions of the pregnant person, when in truth she has little to no control over how her body reacts over those forty weeks. I had a "good" pregnancy: I have a history of high blood pressure and depression but got neither, I gained exactly the recommended amount of weight, there were zero complications with the fetus, etc. My doctors kept telling me what a good job I was doing and how proud of me they were and all that, and I kept saying: BUT I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING. I've just gone about my daily business and been pregnant, I'm really pretty surprised at all this. If anything had gone wrong, it would have been equally out of my control. And the sad thing is, I think I would have expected it and blamed myself for it anyway.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [23 favorites]
It enrages me that so many people, even doctors who should know better, attribute so much of pregnancy to the actions of the pregnant person, when in truth she has little to no control over how her body reacts over those forty weeks. I had a "good" pregnancy: I have a history of high blood pressure and depression but got neither, I gained exactly the recommended amount of weight, there were zero complications with the fetus, etc. My doctors kept telling me what a good job I was doing and how proud of me they were and all that, and I kept saying: BUT I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING. I've just gone about my daily business and been pregnant, I'm really pretty surprised at all this. If anything had gone wrong, it would have been equally out of my control. And the sad thing is, I think I would have expected it and blamed myself for it anyway.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [23 favorites]
Thing is, you're not supposed to talk about how bad giving birth can be because it will scare the expectant mothers. Me, I was incompetent at giving birth. In primitive enough conditions each none of my pregnancies would have resulted in a birth because my babies were too large, although only the first one was delivered by c-section and my uterus never contracted hard enough to get them out without somebody else doing the pulling. I don't feel like I have any horror stories really because yep, that's the way it is. There is a reason why Childbirth Mortality is an easy to look up statistic.
I remember that after one birth when I stayed in hospital about five days longer than the standard, they released me because I finally managed to pee without being catheterized. After that I no longer needed medical care and could handle everything on my own. In order to pee I had to sit in a bath of body temperature water multiple times a day, but I could run the bath on my own, so I was well on the way to recovery.
What I could not do was actually walk, because it hurt too much. I could only be upright if I was sitting, when for some reason the reverse pressure kept my tissue from swelling us. So I spent the next little while sitting up nursing or lying down nursing, or bobbing up for an excruciating second to get something high up, but not walking or standing for more than a split second.
At that point I lived in a long narrow apartment that had a hallway down the middle and there were several rooms between mine and the kitchen. So when I needed a cup of tea - fluid being helpful when round the clock nursing - I had to crawl on hands and knees up to the kitchen, make the tea and then bring it back, one jerky lurch at a time. I remember that as one of the hard parts - the difficulty of bringing the cup of tea to the room where I had left my baby, crawling, foot by foot and not spilling it carrying it while crawling.
So, me, I figure if some woman wants to complain about having a hard pregnancy or a hard birth or a hard postpartum period - chances are she went through some pretty scary, pretty tough stuff. I treat it like when one of my acquaintances suddenly starts talking about their experiences with incestuous abuse. I just shut up and listen and try to validate.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [36 favorites]
I remember that after one birth when I stayed in hospital about five days longer than the standard, they released me because I finally managed to pee without being catheterized. After that I no longer needed medical care and could handle everything on my own. In order to pee I had to sit in a bath of body temperature water multiple times a day, but I could run the bath on my own, so I was well on the way to recovery.
What I could not do was actually walk, because it hurt too much. I could only be upright if I was sitting, when for some reason the reverse pressure kept my tissue from swelling us. So I spent the next little while sitting up nursing or lying down nursing, or bobbing up for an excruciating second to get something high up, but not walking or standing for more than a split second.
At that point I lived in a long narrow apartment that had a hallway down the middle and there were several rooms between mine and the kitchen. So when I needed a cup of tea - fluid being helpful when round the clock nursing - I had to crawl on hands and knees up to the kitchen, make the tea and then bring it back, one jerky lurch at a time. I remember that as one of the hard parts - the difficulty of bringing the cup of tea to the room where I had left my baby, crawling, foot by foot and not spilling it carrying it while crawling.
So, me, I figure if some woman wants to complain about having a hard pregnancy or a hard birth or a hard postpartum period - chances are she went through some pretty scary, pretty tough stuff. I treat it like when one of my acquaintances suddenly starts talking about their experiences with incestuous abuse. I just shut up and listen and try to validate.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [36 favorites]
Oh, actually there was one bit that surprised me, and that was where she said she was "weeks overdue". Is that just poetic licence, or does that actually happen?
I guess 'poetic license' is one way to put it. There's no way she was actually weeks overdue, especially if she had preeclampsia, which is generally handled by inducing birth as soon as possible. But that's far from the only questionable thing in this story. I don't know if this is supposed to be a work of fiction in support of a political point--a kind of "worst case scenario" thought experiment--or if this is written by an unwell person who had some kind of tramautic pregnancy experience but either couldn't understand or distorted the details somehow. Either way, this shouts "unreliable narrator." It reminds me of the kind of BS stories told to teens in evangelical churches to get them not to have sex. I think it would be a great opening to a novel where the reader is immediately sucked in, trying to figure out what the hell actually happened.
It bothers me because I'm in favor of better pre-natal care and simple, safe abortion access, and I am certainly not denying that very difficult, painful, traumatic pregnancies and births happen, but I don't think this is the story we want to propogate to make those points. It just doesn't add up.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
I guess 'poetic license' is one way to put it. There's no way she was actually weeks overdue, especially if she had preeclampsia, which is generally handled by inducing birth as soon as possible. But that's far from the only questionable thing in this story. I don't know if this is supposed to be a work of fiction in support of a political point--a kind of "worst case scenario" thought experiment--or if this is written by an unwell person who had some kind of tramautic pregnancy experience but either couldn't understand or distorted the details somehow. Either way, this shouts "unreliable narrator." It reminds me of the kind of BS stories told to teens in evangelical churches to get them not to have sex. I think it would be a great opening to a novel where the reader is immediately sucked in, trying to figure out what the hell actually happened.
It bothers me because I'm in favor of better pre-natal care and simple, safe abortion access, and I am certainly not denying that very difficult, painful, traumatic pregnancies and births happen, but I don't think this is the story we want to propogate to make those points. It just doesn't add up.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 4:31 AM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
I've read some pretty gnarly shit that's been posted on the blue, but I'm a little scared to read this after the comments above.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess 'poetic license' is one way to put it. There's no way she was actually weeks overdue, especially if she had preeclampsia, which is generally handled by inducing birth as soon as possible. But that's far from the only questionable thing in this story. I don't know if this is supposed to be a work of fiction in support of a political point--a kind of "worst case scenario" thought experiment--or if this is written by an unwell person who had some kind of tramautic pregnancy experience but either couldn't understand or distorted the details somehow.
I don't know. I'm wondering where she is-- she makes repeated reference to the "country she's in" and big scary parts of her story remind me of my own disaster pregnancy story from living in the Netherlands. They believe in making childbirth as "natural" as possible. You need (at least when I was there) to fight for a hospital birth. My midwife fought me *every step of the way* once I realized something was wrong with the pregnancy. (She wrote "first time pregnancy jitters" contemptuously in my hospital file.) I know women there whose babies died when the midwife refused to induce when the baby was overdue, or when they tried to do a home birth with a baby in breech.
Once they accepted I was really sick, the care was great. But the effing midwives were evil harpies and my own pregnancy story (which did not have a happy ending-- class I HELLP, for one) was a pretty similar disaster.
If she was in a country with a similar "non medicalized" approach, then some of the weird things in her story may be explained.
posted by frumiousb at 4:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
I don't know. I'm wondering where she is-- she makes repeated reference to the "country she's in" and big scary parts of her story remind me of my own disaster pregnancy story from living in the Netherlands. They believe in making childbirth as "natural" as possible. You need (at least when I was there) to fight for a hospital birth. My midwife fought me *every step of the way* once I realized something was wrong with the pregnancy. (She wrote "first time pregnancy jitters" contemptuously in my hospital file.) I know women there whose babies died when the midwife refused to induce when the baby was overdue, or when they tried to do a home birth with a baby in breech.
Once they accepted I was really sick, the care was great. But the effing midwives were evil harpies and my own pregnancy story (which did not have a happy ending-- class I HELLP, for one) was a pretty similar disaster.
If she was in a country with a similar "non medicalized" approach, then some of the weird things in her story may be explained.
posted by frumiousb at 4:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [35 favorites]
Christ that is awful.
I bled the first three months of my first pregnancy and was diagnosed with an irritable uterus in both pregnancies - so I had contractions for months and really wasn't certain when labor began for either of my kids. But I ended up with natural, exhausting, "easy" births that I have always known were sheer fucking luck (and a grim determination to keep doctors as far away from me as possible until after the baby was born - I straight up lied about needing to push with my son and ended up delivering him on the floor near the birthing tub because the midwife knew I was pushing and had only pretended to leave the room - she knew if one more person touched me I would go feral, so she quietly prepped the area and helped me out of the tub to deliver)
And three years after the last one my hips have only recently stopped feeling like they weren't connected to my body. The bleeding that started when my last son was born didn't really stop until March of this year. Attitudes need to seriously change about our definitions of normal around childbirth.
posted by annathea at 4:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I bled the first three months of my first pregnancy and was diagnosed with an irritable uterus in both pregnancies - so I had contractions for months and really wasn't certain when labor began for either of my kids. But I ended up with natural, exhausting, "easy" births that I have always known were sheer fucking luck (and a grim determination to keep doctors as far away from me as possible until after the baby was born - I straight up lied about needing to push with my son and ended up delivering him on the floor near the birthing tub because the midwife knew I was pushing and had only pretended to leave the room - she knew if one more person touched me I would go feral, so she quietly prepped the area and helped me out of the tub to deliver)
And three years after the last one my hips have only recently stopped feeling like they weren't connected to my body. The bleeding that started when my last son was born didn't really stop until March of this year. Attitudes need to seriously change about our definitions of normal around childbirth.
posted by annathea at 4:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Either way, this shouts "unreliable narrator."
Maybe. I agree that she sounds like she's not in the US, since she refers to being fired in countries and jobs that are less understanding. But even if she were in the US, the US is a big enough place that extreme events get waaaaay out in the tails of their distributions. One in a million birth events? Probably two to six every year.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
Maybe. I agree that she sounds like she's not in the US, since she refers to being fired in countries and jobs that are less understanding. But even if she were in the US, the US is a big enough place that extreme events get waaaaay out in the tails of their distributions. One in a million birth events? Probably two to six every year.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
I am both angry and unsurprised that it only took 15 comments for the reliability of this woman's reality to be called into question. This is her truth, and for that I am very sorry. What a horrible thing to experience.
posted by sockermom at 6:05 AM on September 1, 2015 [62 favorites]
posted by sockermom at 6:05 AM on September 1, 2015 [62 favorites]
She appears to be Australian (or in Australia).
posted by rory at 6:08 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by rory at 6:08 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Her spelling of "prelabour", mention of losing "twenty kilos" and other word choices are consistent with being Australian.
posted by rory at 6:15 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by rory at 6:15 AM on September 1, 2015
She mentions kilos and being in a country where food safety was questionable during pregnancy (no fruits or veggies). This is not US standard of care, so comparing her experience to what is expected is disingenuous.
Why doubt her? Because her story is too horrific? Pregnancy can be horrific, medical care can be outright hostile to women, and there but for the grace of SOMEONE go we.
I gave birth in what is routinely considered one of the best hospitals in the country (MGH in Boston) and, while not comparable, my 9.5 lb baby girl showed up with compound presentation and her fist over her face. The only reason I didn't end up with an emergent c-section is because I already had an epidural and I couldn't feel my body ripping apart. I tore horrendously, lost enough blood to almost warrant a transfusion, and passed out and peed myself the first time the nurses encouraged me to get out of bed the next morning. I was in terrible pain for 6 weeks, bled for eight. Imagine how well those tears heal when they are constantly chafed by pads and walking and rocking and nursing? The scars still hurt to this day, a year and half later.
And you know what? I'm lucky. I didn't have "permanent damage".
Part of me hopes for a c-section this time around because I don't know if I can do that again. And a big part of that is that a c-section is SURGERY and you are treated as if you've just had surgery, not patted on the back on told you've done a great job and wow are you sure you didn't have gestational diabetes here have a tylenol.
posted by lydhre at 6:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
Why doubt her? Because her story is too horrific? Pregnancy can be horrific, medical care can be outright hostile to women, and there but for the grace of SOMEONE go we.
I gave birth in what is routinely considered one of the best hospitals in the country (MGH in Boston) and, while not comparable, my 9.5 lb baby girl showed up with compound presentation and her fist over her face. The only reason I didn't end up with an emergent c-section is because I already had an epidural and I couldn't feel my body ripping apart. I tore horrendously, lost enough blood to almost warrant a transfusion, and passed out and peed myself the first time the nurses encouraged me to get out of bed the next morning. I was in terrible pain for 6 weeks, bled for eight. Imagine how well those tears heal when they are constantly chafed by pads and walking and rocking and nursing? The scars still hurt to this day, a year and half later.
And you know what? I'm lucky. I didn't have "permanent damage".
Part of me hopes for a c-section this time around because I don't know if I can do that again. And a big part of that is that a c-section is SURGERY and you are treated as if you've just had surgery, not patted on the back on told you've done a great job and wow are you sure you didn't have gestational diabetes here have a tylenol.
posted by lydhre at 6:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
FWIW, I took her mention of being weeks overdue as "being weeks overdue given the diagnosis of preeclampsia."
posted by Nothing at 6:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by Nothing at 6:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [15 favorites]
Data point. I had an ultra sound when I finally realised that my IUD had failed and that I was pregnant. Because of absurdly irregular periods it was total guesswork as to when the conception had happened. They used the ultra-sound to estimate the conception date and the due date. And either they were wrong by three weeks or so, or I went very overdue, or the early fetal development of the little porriwiggle inside me was atypical. So it is possible to run safely over ones due date due to miscalculation or other factors.
I also thought, huh, when I read that point and some of the others and concluded that the person who wrote the article probably does not remember things with scalpel sharp scientific precision, an assumption I take to most anecdotes, but I had no problem with figuring the essential elements of her story were accurate, truthful and as precise as possible. No need to nit-pick a detail unless you are her editor; her main thesis that pregnancy and childbirth can fucking kill you, maim you and leave you with post traumatic stress disorder is valid and still stands.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:21 AM on September 1, 2015 [22 favorites]
I also thought, huh, when I read that point and some of the others and concluded that the person who wrote the article probably does not remember things with scalpel sharp scientific precision, an assumption I take to most anecdotes, but I had no problem with figuring the essential elements of her story were accurate, truthful and as precise as possible. No need to nit-pick a detail unless you are her editor; her main thesis that pregnancy and childbirth can fucking kill you, maim you and leave you with post traumatic stress disorder is valid and still stands.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:21 AM on September 1, 2015 [22 favorites]
FWIW, I have a friend who gave birth last October whose birth story sounds like a horror novel. And she is in the US.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
I didn't think I could get more vehemently pro-choice than I always have been. Then I got pregnant and discovered a deeper well of pro-choiceness in me than I thought possible. I think it is straight up torture to force women to carry pregnancies against their will.
I had a relatively normal and easy pregnancy for most of the 9 months. Except for the bleeding very early on that caused my doctor to advise me to stop exercising except for walking and very gentle prenatal yoga. And except for the fact that by the third trimester I was getting so huge and stressed out that my midwife kept telling me to "take it easy" at work and be less stressed (until I finally snapped and told her to either put me on bed rest or stop talking about stress because she was not helping). It was a miserable, record-hot summer for the last few months of my lumbering around being super big and getting fat shamed on the train because sitting down I just looked fat, not pregnant, and it's ok to make women feel bad about being fat. Ugh. I was so cranky and tired and uncomfortable all the time, and that was "easy"! I got pre-eclampsia at 37 weeks and was induced, then my son had to be pulled out with forceps- the nurse said the OB working the floor that night was the hospital's expert with forceps but she'd never seen such a tough forceps delivery. I seriously thought I was about to die. The tearing was bad, and my stitches healed weirdly, so at my check up a few weeks after birth, I mentioned it and my doctor was like "oh, I can fix that, easy." And she burned off bits of my nethers with silver nitrate. That was actually worse than delivery, I cried every time I had to pee for a couple of weeks.
My experience was pretty bad but not nearly as horrifying as this poor woman's. At least now, five years later, I'm ok and not still dealing with repercussions, that is just so awful. My heart goes out to her. I wish we talked more about this stuff because I was expecting to be glowing and happy and running around being exactly the same as before but with a little thing growing inside me. All the crunchy natural birth stuff that friends of mine told me to read didn't help because I felt like I was doing it wrong by not being totally into the glorious changes of motherhood wrought upon my body.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 6:41 AM on September 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
I had a relatively normal and easy pregnancy for most of the 9 months. Except for the bleeding very early on that caused my doctor to advise me to stop exercising except for walking and very gentle prenatal yoga. And except for the fact that by the third trimester I was getting so huge and stressed out that my midwife kept telling me to "take it easy" at work and be less stressed (until I finally snapped and told her to either put me on bed rest or stop talking about stress because she was not helping). It was a miserable, record-hot summer for the last few months of my lumbering around being super big and getting fat shamed on the train because sitting down I just looked fat, not pregnant, and it's ok to make women feel bad about being fat. Ugh. I was so cranky and tired and uncomfortable all the time, and that was "easy"! I got pre-eclampsia at 37 weeks and was induced, then my son had to be pulled out with forceps- the nurse said the OB working the floor that night was the hospital's expert with forceps but she'd never seen such a tough forceps delivery. I seriously thought I was about to die. The tearing was bad, and my stitches healed weirdly, so at my check up a few weeks after birth, I mentioned it and my doctor was like "oh, I can fix that, easy." And she burned off bits of my nethers with silver nitrate. That was actually worse than delivery, I cried every time I had to pee for a couple of weeks.
My experience was pretty bad but not nearly as horrifying as this poor woman's. At least now, five years later, I'm ok and not still dealing with repercussions, that is just so awful. My heart goes out to her. I wish we talked more about this stuff because I was expecting to be glowing and happy and running around being exactly the same as before but with a little thing growing inside me. All the crunchy natural birth stuff that friends of mine told me to read didn't help because I felt like I was doing it wrong by not being totally into the glorious changes of motherhood wrought upon my body.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 6:41 AM on September 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
Maternal mortality rates during childbirth are, interestingly, almost all about quality of care received during childbirth and not about "better hygiene, better housing, better nutrition, and better general health".
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
There are two ways to tell the story "Something awful happened to me". One way is to minimize it and one way is to maximize it.
If I wrote, "I got hit by a car. Luckily it was only a broken collarbone and I was able to go back to work again" I would be minimizer and you would probably get the impression that getting hit by a car is a not too bad thing.
If I wrote, "I got hit by a car. My collar bone was splintered, and it was over a year before I could go back to work again," I would be a maximizer and you would probably get the impression that getting hit by a car is a bad thing.
Now which way I choose to tell me story is dependent on a host of factors including how I emotionally processed the whole experience and my cultural expectations and all that. If I tell my story the first way, minimizing it and then as a second point add, "Which is why I want to retire because now I have constant pain and I just can't cope with working any more" your response may be, "But you just told me that getting hit by a car isn't serious!"
Whereas if I tell the second story, the maximizing story before I even get to my second point about wanting to stop working because of chronic exhausting pain, you may respond, "Wah, Wah, Wah, You're just looking for sympathy. Getting hit by a car is not too bad. You're exaggerating the details."
If I happen to belong to a lower status group, such as a perceived racial minority, or I am a woman, or I am a person who is emotional, I run a serious risk of having my experience dismissed either because I am don't make my point that I was damaged in strong enough terms, or because I make my point in terms that leave me vulnerable to the accusation of telling an unreliable narrative. Everyone is at risk of being discounted or accused of exaggeration but people who are regularly discriminated against are more so.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [81 favorites]
If I wrote, "I got hit by a car. Luckily it was only a broken collarbone and I was able to go back to work again" I would be minimizer and you would probably get the impression that getting hit by a car is a not too bad thing.
If I wrote, "I got hit by a car. My collar bone was splintered, and it was over a year before I could go back to work again," I would be a maximizer and you would probably get the impression that getting hit by a car is a bad thing.
Now which way I choose to tell me story is dependent on a host of factors including how I emotionally processed the whole experience and my cultural expectations and all that. If I tell my story the first way, minimizing it and then as a second point add, "Which is why I want to retire because now I have constant pain and I just can't cope with working any more" your response may be, "But you just told me that getting hit by a car isn't serious!"
Whereas if I tell the second story, the maximizing story before I even get to my second point about wanting to stop working because of chronic exhausting pain, you may respond, "Wah, Wah, Wah, You're just looking for sympathy. Getting hit by a car is not too bad. You're exaggerating the details."
If I happen to belong to a lower status group, such as a perceived racial minority, or I am a woman, or I am a person who is emotional, I run a serious risk of having my experience dismissed either because I am don't make my point that I was damaged in strong enough terms, or because I make my point in terms that leave me vulnerable to the accusation of telling an unreliable narrative. Everyone is at risk of being discounted or accused of exaggeration but people who are regularly discriminated against are more so.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [81 favorites]
Although I feel some guilt about this, I can't actually stand to read the OP because my own birth story is something I've stopped telling, because it became more, not less, painful over time. It was like re-opening a scar. All those feelings are never going to be very far beneath the surface. I've told my story here, somewhere or other, but I'm not going to go find it now. I can't read other people's stories these days, either.
So I can't go find specific things to defend her against Pater's assumption of exaggeration. Pater, I would gently suggest that as a man and as a person I know to be compassionate, you do not want to go down the road of auditing this woman's experience.
My child's birth was, per my hospital records, utterly normal and without complications. But it gave me the startle reflexes of an assault victim immediately afterward (I nearly leaped off my bed the first time I was examined postpartum), persistent suicidal ideation that required medication, and a tendency not to get necessary medical treatment to this day because I have to work up my courage to put myself in the hands of an OB/Gyn again. There's an entire universe of trauma during birth that never makes it onto the woman's chart, and my experience is not that unusual.
It's been 10 years, nearly. Lots of moms tell their kids the story of their births on their birthday. I never do.
posted by emjaybee at 6:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [37 favorites]
So I can't go find specific things to defend her against Pater's assumption of exaggeration. Pater, I would gently suggest that as a man and as a person I know to be compassionate, you do not want to go down the road of auditing this woman's experience.
My child's birth was, per my hospital records, utterly normal and without complications. But it gave me the startle reflexes of an assault victim immediately afterward (I nearly leaped off my bed the first time I was examined postpartum), persistent suicidal ideation that required medication, and a tendency not to get necessary medical treatment to this day because I have to work up my courage to put myself in the hands of an OB/Gyn again. There's an entire universe of trauma during birth that never makes it onto the woman's chart, and my experience is not that unusual.
It's been 10 years, nearly. Lots of moms tell their kids the story of their births on their birthday. I never do.
posted by emjaybee at 6:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [37 favorites]
This is why I always have time to visit old cemeteries, even when I don't expect to know of anyone in them. Young people who laughed at jokes, who danced, who teased their siblings, who loved animals, who had hopes for their future -- hundreds of them died in an inch of their own fluids just like this, and everyone around them lowered their eyes and said it was God's will, and the bereaved husband looked quick for another wife who would take up the care of the child left behind.
This is not US standard of care, so comparing her experience to what is expected is disingenuous.
Despite the spiders, Australia is a first-world country and I would expect the best of their hospitals. I realized this was not a US resident not because of her metric units, but because she did not have specific and horrible financial grievances. She also didn't discuss the possibility of lawsuits, which we all instinctively bring up.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:08 AM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
This is not US standard of care, so comparing her experience to what is expected is disingenuous.
Despite the spiders, Australia is a first-world country and I would expect the best of their hospitals. I realized this was not a US resident not because of her metric units, but because she did not have specific and horrible financial grievances. She also didn't discuss the possibility of lawsuits, which we all instinctively bring up.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:08 AM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
My wife and I have an agreement that we only refer to our son's birth as "a beautiful miracle". We're not religious and the air quotes are always emphasized. Childbirth is ugly and I strongly recommend parents screen their doctors and have a doula or midwife as an advocate during the procedure.
posted by furtive at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by furtive at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
My birth story and some of my pregnancy story were awful, I've shared them here, though nowhere near as awful as she describes. And the thing is, at the end of all of it, if you're lucky, you get this amazing baby as your reward. And if it's a wanted baby, eventually (it can take weeks or months or possibly years) that - almost - makes all of what you went through worth it. Almost.
To have to go through all that for an unwanted baby, let alone for a baby you're handing over to strangers? I can't even. The story doesn't have to be as horrific as hers to make that point.
posted by Mchelly at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
To have to go through all that for an unwanted baby, let alone for a baby you're handing over to strangers? I can't even. The story doesn't have to be as horrific as hers to make that point.
posted by Mchelly at 7:23 AM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Oh, actually there was one bit that surprised me, and that was where she said she was "weeks overdue". Is that just poetic licence, or does that actually happen? I knew it could be days, maybe even a week or a week and half, but multiple weeks? Goddamn.
I agree with the statement above that the "weeks overdue" likely refers to the context of preeclampsia, but even so--a good friend of mine has had two births induced at 12 days over. That's "weeks." And they had to be induced. Those kids weren't comin' out on their own accord.
And the reaction of the doctors both times was "there's something wrong with you, why don't you give up and just go into labor already" like she had an "instant labor" button she could push or something and just wouldn't. And then when she had long, hard labors after induction that was ALSO her "fault" because apparently women make labor difficult on purpose.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:25 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree with the statement above that the "weeks overdue" likely refers to the context of preeclampsia, but even so--a good friend of mine has had two births induced at 12 days over. That's "weeks." And they had to be induced. Those kids weren't comin' out on their own accord.
And the reaction of the doctors both times was "there's something wrong with you, why don't you give up and just go into labor already" like she had an "instant labor" button she could push or something and just wouldn't. And then when she had long, hard labors after induction that was ALSO her "fault" because apparently women make labor difficult on purpose.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:25 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes to the weeks: in NZ they induce if you hit 10 days overdue (or did at the time); my local hospital was full so I ended up being induced at 14 days over. Gave birth the following day so I guess technically I hit 15 days overdue.
posted by tracicle at 7:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tracicle at 7:32 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I had a horrible experience with birth both times, the first time gave me PTSD, I thought I was dying, they tied me to my bed, I couldn't move, I'm claustrophobic. I felt like I was getting stabbed repeatedly in the back, they told me it was all in my head. I said that my epidural wasn't working, they said I was too fat. I felt like I was breaking, they told me to be quiet, that I wasn't the first person to give birth. 37 hours of labor. Beautiful baby girl. Pregnancy number 2 ended in a C-section. After laboring and screaming for about 30 hours. C-section was CAKE compared to labor. Anyways, two horrible birth experiences, and both times I really really really wanted those babies. I can't imagine going through that if I didn't want the babies.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:34 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 7:34 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
When people call folks' medical histories into question over exact wording and diagnosis details, I find myself remembering when I was really sick, and how I still don't exactly know what happened.
I was in my teens and I got what I think was full-on Lyme disease but could have been something else like Guillain-Barre. I couldn't walk, I lost feeling in my legs...and I lost smooth muscle control below my waist and had all kinds of digestive/eliminative issues as a result. I still don't know exactly what my diagnosis was - and a family friend was my neurologist. I was not able to convey to the doctors all the digestive/eliminative stuff because I didn't have the language or the understanding (and I had some really weird, gross symptoms as I was recovering - with which I will not disgust you!). I had a lot of different treatments tried and in the end I made a 95% recovery - I still have some aftereffects.
My point being, if I describe what happened, it doesn't match up exactly to either Lyme Disease or Guillain Barre; some of the things I experienced were not on my medical record because I couldn't express them well enough and the doctors were not astute enough to figure them out; and I don't, even now, have the language and understanding to express what happened to me in "correct" medical language. I could easily see myself trying to explain what happened to me to someone who felt that he had expertise, and having that person dismiss my account because I didn't have the right language and because I never had total medical-grade knowledge of what happened. And yet it all happened.
And I stress that my situation was about a million times less scary and protracted than this one - I only need to know medical details from about three weeks of my life, not a year.
posted by Frowner at 7:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
I was in my teens and I got what I think was full-on Lyme disease but could have been something else like Guillain-Barre. I couldn't walk, I lost feeling in my legs...and I lost smooth muscle control below my waist and had all kinds of digestive/eliminative issues as a result. I still don't know exactly what my diagnosis was - and a family friend was my neurologist. I was not able to convey to the doctors all the digestive/eliminative stuff because I didn't have the language or the understanding (and I had some really weird, gross symptoms as I was recovering - with which I will not disgust you!). I had a lot of different treatments tried and in the end I made a 95% recovery - I still have some aftereffects.
My point being, if I describe what happened, it doesn't match up exactly to either Lyme Disease or Guillain Barre; some of the things I experienced were not on my medical record because I couldn't express them well enough and the doctors were not astute enough to figure them out; and I don't, even now, have the language and understanding to express what happened to me in "correct" medical language. I could easily see myself trying to explain what happened to me to someone who felt that he had expertise, and having that person dismiss my account because I didn't have the right language and because I never had total medical-grade knowledge of what happened. And yet it all happened.
And I stress that my situation was about a million times less scary and protracted than this one - I only need to know medical details from about three weeks of my life, not a year.
posted by Frowner at 7:35 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think it needs saying, too, that the natural, biological difficulty of birth is one thing, and is bad enough. The way women are treated by the medical establishment while giving birth is an entirely different kind of bad. It's possible every intervention I had would have been necessary anyway, but I can never be sure, because at every stage I was treated so coldly, even brutally, that I can't really trust that those in charge of making medical decisions for me were doing what was needed and best for me instead of what was convenient for them. And because neither I nor the baby died, they could not be sued for what they did to me. They just patted me on the head and wrote me an antidepressant prescription. Just hormones, you know. Women; so crazy!
I refuse to believe it is either necessary or good medicine to create trauma and fear in a patient during a critical time like birth. But judging from the many many stories I hear, it is entirely the norm.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 AM on September 1, 2015 [22 favorites]
I refuse to believe it is either necessary or good medicine to create trauma and fear in a patient during a critical time like birth. But judging from the many many stories I hear, it is entirely the norm.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 AM on September 1, 2015 [22 favorites]
Mrs. Plinth's pregnancy featured insane hemorrhoids that couldn't be treated beyond palliative care and an event where I got up into the face of a pharmacist who tried to refuse filling the prescription for a topical ointment. You do everything with your asshole. Injure it and you'll find out. Laughing? Yup, with your asshole. Swallowing? Yup, your asshole is involved.
Labor was long and unproductive. Same experience as olinerd - every contraction, the baby's heartbeat dropped. Emergency C section was called and we stole the team from a scheduled C. The baby had seizures (turned out she had a stroke) while 3 doctors worked to get her heart and lungs to work on their own while another scraped out the Mrs' insides and stitched her back up.
Interesting side note: I sat by Mrs. Plinth's head and talked to her during the procedure. I wanted to have a look at the incision, because there are only so many opportunities to safely look at the inside of another human being and this was my first. I decided not to because while I am not squeamish at all the calculus is simple: there are two patients right now who are important. Best not to become a third.
Another interesting side note: After they had gotten her breathing and her heart going, they wanted to put her into a tank where they could have her hooked up to heart and breathing monitors. The doctors were still worried. I insisted that they bring our daughter over to us so that Mrs. Plinth could at least see her. I took a picture of that moment. Mrs. Plinth later had memory loss of this event and was angry that she didn't even get to see her baby before she was taken away, which only goes to show how well I know her and why I knew it was important that she did. Anesthesia and trauma are hell on memory.
In recovery we get a visit from everyone at once: 4 doctors, several nurses and our midwife. "We think she has Down syndrome." They needed to also move her to a different hospital; one that has a NICU. Then Mrs. Plinth's GP, who had offered to be our baby's pediatrician retracted that offer.
Then they said that Mrs. Plinth was going to stay at this hospital to recover while our baby was 20 miles away in a NICU. No, I don't think so. Did you know that low muscle tone, common in Down syndrome affects a baby's ability to latch and nurse? There was nothing the lactation consultants could do to make that work - bring out the pump. Mrs. Plinth felt so disempowered, isolated, depressed, and ashamed. She did the only thing she felt she could do: she pumped as if she had twins and we ended up having to buy a chest freezer (pro tip: frost free freezers ruin breast milk by constantly edging it back and forth to the freezing point) which she filled with a more than year's worth of milk.
And yes, kinakeet, people told us that "God only gives us what we can handle" and I can tell you that quite honestly, no, sometimes you get way more than anyone could handle.
posted by plinth at 7:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [39 favorites]
Labor was long and unproductive. Same experience as olinerd - every contraction, the baby's heartbeat dropped. Emergency C section was called and we stole the team from a scheduled C. The baby had seizures (turned out she had a stroke) while 3 doctors worked to get her heart and lungs to work on their own while another scraped out the Mrs' insides and stitched her back up.
Interesting side note: I sat by Mrs. Plinth's head and talked to her during the procedure. I wanted to have a look at the incision, because there are only so many opportunities to safely look at the inside of another human being and this was my first. I decided not to because while I am not squeamish at all the calculus is simple: there are two patients right now who are important. Best not to become a third.
Another interesting side note: After they had gotten her breathing and her heart going, they wanted to put her into a tank where they could have her hooked up to heart and breathing monitors. The doctors were still worried. I insisted that they bring our daughter over to us so that Mrs. Plinth could at least see her. I took a picture of that moment. Mrs. Plinth later had memory loss of this event and was angry that she didn't even get to see her baby before she was taken away, which only goes to show how well I know her and why I knew it was important that she did. Anesthesia and trauma are hell on memory.
In recovery we get a visit from everyone at once: 4 doctors, several nurses and our midwife. "We think she has Down syndrome." They needed to also move her to a different hospital; one that has a NICU. Then Mrs. Plinth's GP, who had offered to be our baby's pediatrician retracted that offer.
Then they said that Mrs. Plinth was going to stay at this hospital to recover while our baby was 20 miles away in a NICU. No, I don't think so. Did you know that low muscle tone, common in Down syndrome affects a baby's ability to latch and nurse? There was nothing the lactation consultants could do to make that work - bring out the pump. Mrs. Plinth felt so disempowered, isolated, depressed, and ashamed. She did the only thing she felt she could do: she pumped as if she had twins and we ended up having to buy a chest freezer (pro tip: frost free freezers ruin breast milk by constantly edging it back and forth to the freezing point) which she filled with a more than year's worth of milk.
And yes, kinakeet, people told us that "God only gives us what we can handle" and I can tell you that quite honestly, no, sometimes you get way more than anyone could handle.
posted by plinth at 7:47 AM on September 1, 2015 [39 favorites]
A friend of mine here in Berlin recently gave birth in a birthing house with a great reputation. Yet she was treated with bored negligence and received incorrect instructions re: timing and pushing, which resulted in a degree of (thankfully temporary) damage that was completely avoidable. Afterwards, it took her months of trying out new doctors before her pelvic floor damage was correctly diagnosed, thus allowing her to receive physical therapy that would be covered by insurance. Before the diagnosis, several (male and female) doctors basically brushed her off with "childbirth is hard but relax you'll be fine, walk it off."
As a man, this was the first time I'd heard of both the brutal reality of childbirth and the callousness with which women are treated. I wonder why this has gotten so little visibility - I normally pride myself on being reasonably socially conscious, and yet I've gotten this far in life without being aware of what really sounds like a significant manifestation of culturally-ingrained misogyny.
I also wonder how much of this is specific to childbirth and how much can be chalked up to the casually brutal assembly-line that medicine seems to be devolving into these days. A bit from columns A and B, I suppose.
posted by tempythethird at 7:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
As a man, this was the first time I'd heard of both the brutal reality of childbirth and the callousness with which women are treated. I wonder why this has gotten so little visibility - I normally pride myself on being reasonably socially conscious, and yet I've gotten this far in life without being aware of what really sounds like a significant manifestation of culturally-ingrained misogyny.
I also wonder how much of this is specific to childbirth and how much can be chalked up to the casually brutal assembly-line that medicine seems to be devolving into these days. A bit from columns A and B, I suppose.
posted by tempythethird at 7:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
Just another small note - Birth is triggered by the placenta wearing out. When the baby's survival pod fails, for whatever reason, usually because the baby has gotten so big that the placenta can't keep up, it stops producing a chemical signal that everything is going fine.
The woman's body has put her immune system partially on hold ever since this chemical started getting into her bloodstream through the place the placenta is embedded in the wall of her uterus. Once this chemical signal drops below a certain point her uterus goes into action and starts to contract and to separate from anything that might have attached to it.
This process occurs every time a woman doesn't get pregnant. No chemical? Out goes the contents of the uterus either with a menstrual period or a miscarriage.
Anyway, women cannot do a darn thing to induce labour short of taking a knitting needle and doing extremely brutal things through their own cervix, which will likely result in hemorrhage, infection and stuff like that. Even oxytocin is just a little encouragement.
So the alien inside you is the one who decides when it is time to start the birthing process.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [16 favorites]
The woman's body has put her immune system partially on hold ever since this chemical started getting into her bloodstream through the place the placenta is embedded in the wall of her uterus. Once this chemical signal drops below a certain point her uterus goes into action and starts to contract and to separate from anything that might have attached to it.
This process occurs every time a woman doesn't get pregnant. No chemical? Out goes the contents of the uterus either with a menstrual period or a miscarriage.
Anyway, women cannot do a darn thing to induce labour short of taking a knitting needle and doing extremely brutal things through their own cervix, which will likely result in hemorrhage, infection and stuff like that. Even oxytocin is just a little encouragement.
So the alien inside you is the one who decides when it is time to start the birthing process.
posted by Jane the Brown at 8:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [16 favorites]
The doctor tried to refer me to a psychiatrist because I was imagining it.
Why does this happen so often? It is such a destroyer of the doctor/patient relationship, and it isn't even helpful in terms of treatment. Like are there actually tons of people out there who start imagining pain, then go to the psychiatrist and get it fixed at their doctor's recommendation, and come back saying "thanks doc! that therapy fixed my imaginary pain right up! It was exactly what I needed." I don't think that is what psychiatrists even do.
This is not a rhetorical question, because this exact thing has happened to so many people that I know, and all it ever seems to do is make the patient furious and reluctant to seek medical care in the future. Why do doctors say this? Is it because they know it's a great way to get the patient to shut up and go away?
posted by insoluble uncertainty at 8:49 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
Why does this happen so often? It is such a destroyer of the doctor/patient relationship, and it isn't even helpful in terms of treatment. Like are there actually tons of people out there who start imagining pain, then go to the psychiatrist and get it fixed at their doctor's recommendation, and come back saying "thanks doc! that therapy fixed my imaginary pain right up! It was exactly what I needed." I don't think that is what psychiatrists even do.
This is not a rhetorical question, because this exact thing has happened to so many people that I know, and all it ever seems to do is make the patient furious and reluctant to seek medical care in the future. Why do doctors say this? Is it because they know it's a great way to get the patient to shut up and go away?
posted by insoluble uncertainty at 8:49 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
I have a pelvic pain disorder that's led me to a lot of the same specialists, online support groups, etc. as injured and traumatised mothers, so whenever people talk about these issues, my ears prick up. I've often been struck by the nasty attitudes people I know have towards pregnant and post-partum women in their lives. The level of callousness can be chilling. Like, these are women talking about their actual sisters and how annoying it is that they still go on about being in pain months after birth when women have babies every day and it doesn't make them special. What hope is there for understanding from anyone else?
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 8:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 8:56 AM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
and yet I've gotten this far in life without being aware of what really sounds like a significant manifestation of culturally-ingrained misogyny.
Due to finances I (briefly) saw an OB/GYN at a local hospital for my second (surprise, unplanned, immediately following the first) pregnancy. My first pregnancy ended in a homebirth with a midwife in another state. There were minor complications and yet I walked away from the experience feeling completely well taken care of, even loved, by my care providers. My midwife acted more as a therapist during most of our visits, with the exception that she is still literally the only medical provider who's taken a blood sample from me and not left horrific bruises. Basically, I think she's magic.
The male OB I saw after her was a very pleasant person, and even listened well - right up until I told him my "birth plan". Which was 1) I want to remain upright as much as possible (remember, I had JUST GIVEN BIRTH like four months previously - so what worked and what didn't was fresh in my mind) and 2) my baby was not to be taken from me unless he had serious issues with breathing or under other life-threatening circumstances. No hearing tests in another part of the hospital. No newborn tests outside of my room. Do it in the room with me present and give us enough time immediately after the birth to rest, bond, and nurse.
He actually laughed when I said that and I think he would have patted me on the head but thought better of it. It was the staying upright part that he objected to the most - he said that I would have to lie down because it was policy and I would be getting monitored and that I wouldn't be able to get up from the bed. And then, dismissively, he said that I would WANT the baby in the nursery so that I could rest, and the visit was over.
I heard from a friend who worked as a nurse at that hospital that he was surprised to find I'd cancelled my next prenatal. I found the midwife who used to do my well woman visits and transferred my care over to her at 7 months pregnant, but a homebirth wasn't an option for me at that point. So when I got to the hospital and they told me to lay down for monitoring I screamed at the top of my lungs through every contraction until they brought me an exercise ball to sit on - something they could have offered me the first four times I politely asked for it while trying *not* to scream through the contractions.
This isn't an anecdote or a funny story - this is a fucking strategy that I knew I would have to use in order to have my wishes respected as a patient and a mother. I was in transition and nearly crowning when I got to the hospital, but as a matter of policy I had to be monitored for 20 minutes with the belts on before I was allowed in the labor tub. Which I understand! Monitoring is good! But it can be done with me sitting upright. No reason to force me into an unnatural birthing position just to put some belts around me.
And if I didn't get in the tub, I wouldn't be allowed out of the bed. Then they handed me a stack of forms that I had already filled out the day before and made me sign them all again while I pretended I wasn't about to start pushing because I didn't want another (painful, invasive) pelvic exam yet.
This was the OPTIMUM care that I could get, with a midwife, but in a hospital. I didn't hand them a birth plan that said "No drugs, even if I beg for it!" I said, if I need drugs I expect you to be ready with some drugs. I didn't say "No c-section!" I said, I'm three days overdue and if the baby is showing any signs of distress please don't let me labor forever before doing, just get the baby out. I tried very hard not to make any demands that overrode their medical intuition and knowledge. Just that I wanted to stay upright and I wanted my baby with me after he was born.
And I had to fight for it, every second that I was in labor, right up until the midwife took action and helped me deliver (squatting upright, god damn it!) on the floor next to the tub, because I had to pretend I wasn't pushing in order to get them to leave me alone and let me birth. And I had to fight for it afterwards, when the nurses chided me for making them wait to do his newborn exam ("if you have to do it right now, do it on my bed next to me", which they finally did) and gently teasing me for being wheeled down the hall for his hearing test with him in my arms.
But they did not take my baby from me and I gave birth upright and we went home the same day, and all I had to do was scream as loudly as I could with all the voice that I possessed.
posted by annathea at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [65 favorites]
Due to finances I (briefly) saw an OB/GYN at a local hospital for my second (surprise, unplanned, immediately following the first) pregnancy. My first pregnancy ended in a homebirth with a midwife in another state. There were minor complications and yet I walked away from the experience feeling completely well taken care of, even loved, by my care providers. My midwife acted more as a therapist during most of our visits, with the exception that she is still literally the only medical provider who's taken a blood sample from me and not left horrific bruises. Basically, I think she's magic.
The male OB I saw after her was a very pleasant person, and even listened well - right up until I told him my "birth plan". Which was 1) I want to remain upright as much as possible (remember, I had JUST GIVEN BIRTH like four months previously - so what worked and what didn't was fresh in my mind) and 2) my baby was not to be taken from me unless he had serious issues with breathing or under other life-threatening circumstances. No hearing tests in another part of the hospital. No newborn tests outside of my room. Do it in the room with me present and give us enough time immediately after the birth to rest, bond, and nurse.
He actually laughed when I said that and I think he would have patted me on the head but thought better of it. It was the staying upright part that he objected to the most - he said that I would have to lie down because it was policy and I would be getting monitored and that I wouldn't be able to get up from the bed. And then, dismissively, he said that I would WANT the baby in the nursery so that I could rest, and the visit was over.
I heard from a friend who worked as a nurse at that hospital that he was surprised to find I'd cancelled my next prenatal. I found the midwife who used to do my well woman visits and transferred my care over to her at 7 months pregnant, but a homebirth wasn't an option for me at that point. So when I got to the hospital and they told me to lay down for monitoring I screamed at the top of my lungs through every contraction until they brought me an exercise ball to sit on - something they could have offered me the first four times I politely asked for it while trying *not* to scream through the contractions.
This isn't an anecdote or a funny story - this is a fucking strategy that I knew I would have to use in order to have my wishes respected as a patient and a mother. I was in transition and nearly crowning when I got to the hospital, but as a matter of policy I had to be monitored for 20 minutes with the belts on before I was allowed in the labor tub. Which I understand! Monitoring is good! But it can be done with me sitting upright. No reason to force me into an unnatural birthing position just to put some belts around me.
And if I didn't get in the tub, I wouldn't be allowed out of the bed. Then they handed me a stack of forms that I had already filled out the day before and made me sign them all again while I pretended I wasn't about to start pushing because I didn't want another (painful, invasive) pelvic exam yet.
This was the OPTIMUM care that I could get, with a midwife, but in a hospital. I didn't hand them a birth plan that said "No drugs, even if I beg for it!" I said, if I need drugs I expect you to be ready with some drugs. I didn't say "No c-section!" I said, I'm three days overdue and if the baby is showing any signs of distress please don't let me labor forever before doing, just get the baby out. I tried very hard not to make any demands that overrode their medical intuition and knowledge. Just that I wanted to stay upright and I wanted my baby with me after he was born.
And I had to fight for it, every second that I was in labor, right up until the midwife took action and helped me deliver (squatting upright, god damn it!) on the floor next to the tub, because I had to pretend I wasn't pushing in order to get them to leave me alone and let me birth. And I had to fight for it afterwards, when the nurses chided me for making them wait to do his newborn exam ("if you have to do it right now, do it on my bed next to me", which they finally did) and gently teasing me for being wheeled down the hall for his hearing test with him in my arms.
But they did not take my baby from me and I gave birth upright and we went home the same day, and all I had to do was scream as loudly as I could with all the voice that I possessed.
posted by annathea at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [65 favorites]
Do not read this if you are pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant, or any other horror story. We used to have old aunties and grannies to scare us to death about pregnancy, now we have metafilter. Most pregnancies are uneventful, uncomfortable at best, but it is all over once the baby is born. Yes, for some people horrible things happen, but there is no need to go into a pregnancy expecting and dreading horrors. Sometimes the ignorance of those of us who had babies young years ago when that was the fashion were lucky.
posted by mermayd at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mermayd at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
With all these horror stories ... there isn't any aspect of the human condition that modern medicine has greater beaten back morbidity and mortality than pregnancy and childbirth. In the state of nature, they routinely kill or disable young women and babies in otherwise perfect health. Nothing that's done in the cardiology, oncology or trauma wings compares.
posted by MattD at 9:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by MattD at 9:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
That's why it's so dismaying that the US ranks so low in infant and maternal mortality compared to other first world countries. We can do better.
posted by annathea at 9:09 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by annathea at 9:09 AM on September 1, 2015
Most pregnancies are uneventful, uncomfortable at best, but it is all over once the baby is born.
Except that all these stories indicate that for many of us it ISN'T over when the baby is born. I had a relatively smooth pregnancy right up to the eight-month mark, when I got preeclampsia. They put me on drugs, tried to induce, and when that didn't work they did a quick emergency c-section. It was the best possible outcome to a pregnancy gone wrong, and it was still six weeks until I felt strong enough to carry heavy things, and before the room didn't spin every time I stood up. And that seems like small potatoes compared to what others have gone through.
And even if there's not much to be gained from reading horror stories on the internet, I sure as heck would have liked to have been informed what the symptoms of preeclampsia were. Keeping pregnant women ignorant historically hasn't for their benefit; it's all about keeping control in the hands of the medical professionals.
In summary, c-sections for everyone!
posted by daisystomper at 9:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
Except that all these stories indicate that for many of us it ISN'T over when the baby is born. I had a relatively smooth pregnancy right up to the eight-month mark, when I got preeclampsia. They put me on drugs, tried to induce, and when that didn't work they did a quick emergency c-section. It was the best possible outcome to a pregnancy gone wrong, and it was still six weeks until I felt strong enough to carry heavy things, and before the room didn't spin every time I stood up. And that seems like small potatoes compared to what others have gone through.
And even if there's not much to be gained from reading horror stories on the internet, I sure as heck would have liked to have been informed what the symptoms of preeclampsia were. Keeping pregnant women ignorant historically hasn't for their benefit; it's all about keeping control in the hands of the medical professionals.
In summary, c-sections for everyone!
posted by daisystomper at 9:15 AM on September 1, 2015 [17 favorites]
Oh come on. Women should read a variety of birth stories so they can decide what interventions and what circumstances they want them and who to have there. I read stories and it led me to pay a doula at fairly great expense and have my husband and my sister there for a planned hospital birth. Because I realized it would help keep me from panicking and they could help enforce my choices. If you don't plan and you end up with disinterested or contemptuous caregivers then worse can happen. You can feel disempowered (never mind medical risk) which makes something you might have wanted into a horror you can barely stand to remember.
The pretense that pregnancy and labor is just so easy and why are you complaining is one reason why so much bad care happens, even in "civilized" countries.
posted by R343L at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [38 favorites]
The pretense that pregnancy and labor is just so easy and why are you complaining is one reason why so much bad care happens, even in "civilized" countries.
posted by R343L at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2015 [38 favorites]
NB I have never been pregnant myself and never will be. But I've known enough women who have, and who have gone through experiences similar to the woman in the article (although mostly not to such a great degree) that I am convinced that a not insignificant number of marriages go bad because the husband doesn't take his wife's side strongly enough in the face of mistreatment during pregnancy and childbirth. It may not happen right away, but it's a lingering wound that festers and weakens the marriage.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 AM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
The article is almost exactly like my pregnancy. Did I write this and forget I did?
Ligament problems, nerve problems, weeks late, pre-e. It almost makes me wonder if this package of fun is some kind of syndrome. I couldn't walk for a lot of days when I was pregnant. And I couldnt lay down either! The only difference is I ended up with the c section. A couple days after the c section I remember that I was in so much less pain because the nerve problem resolved. Yes, unmedicated days after surgery were miles LESS painful than any of the previous 5 months. And, my body didn't heal after 18 weeks. It's been years now and I'm still regularly in pain due to the effects of my pregnancy.
I thought this was all normal.
I thought every pregnant woman was in constant pain for the entire time and years later.
I recently saw some anti choice friends saying "just adopt" and I know another pregnancy would leave me permanently disabled.
No one understands how I got broken. All of the other women have babies and don't need years of doctor appointments to try to be somewhat functional and pain free again.
posted by littlewater at 9:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
Ligament problems, nerve problems, weeks late, pre-e. It almost makes me wonder if this package of fun is some kind of syndrome. I couldn't walk for a lot of days when I was pregnant. And I couldnt lay down either! The only difference is I ended up with the c section. A couple days after the c section I remember that I was in so much less pain because the nerve problem resolved. Yes, unmedicated days after surgery were miles LESS painful than any of the previous 5 months. And, my body didn't heal after 18 weeks. It's been years now and I'm still regularly in pain due to the effects of my pregnancy.
I thought this was all normal.
I thought every pregnant woman was in constant pain for the entire time and years later.
I recently saw some anti choice friends saying "just adopt" and I know another pregnancy would leave me permanently disabled.
No one understands how I got broken. All of the other women have babies and don't need years of doctor appointments to try to be somewhat functional and pain free again.
posted by littlewater at 9:43 AM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
Do not read this if you are pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant, or any other horror story.
I think everyone thinking of getting pregnant should read this story and this whole thread. Most people here are saying that even births that are considered perfectly normal are horrible. No reason women shouldn't know that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
I think everyone thinking of getting pregnant should read this story and this whole thread. Most people here are saying that even births that are considered perfectly normal are horrible. No reason women shouldn't know that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:48 AM on September 1, 2015 [31 favorites]
And I wish the midwives would have warned me - pregnancy may leave you unable to walk, unable to use your arms, unable to lay down or walk. And you may never recover. You may need a walker. You may spend more than 10% of your income in COPAYS alone trying to recover the ability to walk after the baby is born.
I knew I could tear. Hell, I knew I could die but I didn't think I had this risk of disability that I am now dealing with.
Saying "medicine can fix it all!" is a Pollyanna lie.
posted by littlewater at 9:52 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
I knew I could tear. Hell, I knew I could die but I didn't think I had this risk of disability that I am now dealing with.
Saying "medicine can fix it all!" is a Pollyanna lie.
posted by littlewater at 9:52 AM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
Pregnancy as organ donation to the fetus:
Pregnancy is Dangerous
posted by littlewater at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Pregnancy is Dangerous
posted by littlewater at 9:55 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Most pregnancies are uneventful, uncomfortable at best, but it is all over once the baby is born.
What?! Yes, by some definitions, pregnancy is "all over once the baby is born". But the dramatic changes to a woman's body are by no means "all over". Even the most serene pregnancy requires healing in a variety of areas. Even the smoothest birth results in a host of new bodily realities. To pretend otherwise is to leave women grossly unprepared for what they will experience.
posted by annaramma at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [27 favorites]
What?! Yes, by some definitions, pregnancy is "all over once the baby is born". But the dramatic changes to a woman's body are by no means "all over". Even the most serene pregnancy requires healing in a variety of areas. Even the smoothest birth results in a host of new bodily realities. To pretend otherwise is to leave women grossly unprepared for what they will experience.
posted by annaramma at 10:07 AM on September 1, 2015 [27 favorites]
Oh goodness. So now, not only do I have to worry about picking up some terrible flesh eating bacteria and losing a limb or two at the hospital while giving birth, but now I have to worry about the complete destruction of my body just from being pregnant?? Ugh.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:13 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:13 AM on September 1, 2015
In summary, c-sections for everyone!
I endorse this position whole-heartedly.
The day I found out from my OB-GYN that my "elderly primagravida" status made me eligible for scheduled C-section and that my insurance would cover it 100% as "medically necessary," I practically danced out of the office, hampered only by my swollen midsection and ballooning ankles.
Knowing exactly when I'd be ending my pregnancy, under specific circumstances, and with specific medical professionals I trusted? It was a beautiful dream. So I went to 41 weeks with the pregnancy, spent a lovely, sunny Monday repotting a few peace lilies and getting a pedicure with a leg massage, then waddled into the hospital at 4 p.m. for a 5:30 surgery. As luck would have it, my doctor was running early, so the surgery began at 5 p.m. and by 5:24 p.m., I had met my daughter.
My big sorrow is is that what I had -- a safe, 100% insurance-covered birth in which I felt in total control of when and how I chose to do it -- is not even common in the U.S., much less in the world.
I joke about scheduled C-sections for all, but really, I would want any pregnant woman to go into the experience of becoming un-pregnant, however she chooses to do that, feeling supported and in control of her circumstances. It makes all the difference in recovery.
posted by sobell at 10:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [25 favorites]
I endorse this position whole-heartedly.
The day I found out from my OB-GYN that my "elderly primagravida" status made me eligible for scheduled C-section and that my insurance would cover it 100% as "medically necessary," I practically danced out of the office, hampered only by my swollen midsection and ballooning ankles.
Knowing exactly when I'd be ending my pregnancy, under specific circumstances, and with specific medical professionals I trusted? It was a beautiful dream. So I went to 41 weeks with the pregnancy, spent a lovely, sunny Monday repotting a few peace lilies and getting a pedicure with a leg massage, then waddled into the hospital at 4 p.m. for a 5:30 surgery. As luck would have it, my doctor was running early, so the surgery began at 5 p.m. and by 5:24 p.m., I had met my daughter.
My big sorrow is is that what I had -- a safe, 100% insurance-covered birth in which I felt in total control of when and how I chose to do it -- is not even common in the U.S., much less in the world.
I joke about scheduled C-sections for all, but really, I would want any pregnant woman to go into the experience of becoming un-pregnant, however she chooses to do that, feeling supported and in control of her circumstances. It makes all the difference in recovery.
posted by sobell at 10:17 AM on September 1, 2015 [25 favorites]
In summary, c-sections for everyone!
Not sure if that was a joke, but aside from the risks and complications of major surgery, women should never be forced to have an "unnatural" delivery if it is against their wishes and is not medically necessary.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not sure if that was a joke, but aside from the risks and complications of major surgery, women should never be forced to have an "unnatural" delivery if it is against their wishes and is not medically necessary.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
women should never be forced to have an "unnatural" delivery if it is against their wishes and is not medically necessary
That is really uncharitable reading of the comment, I don't see anyone in this thread advocating for forced c-sections against women's wishes.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2015 [20 favorites]
That is really uncharitable reading of the comment, I don't see anyone in this thread advocating for forced c-sections against women's wishes.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2015 [20 favorites]
Yes, by some definitions, pregnancy is "all over once the baby is born". But the dramatic changes to a woman's body are by no means "all over".
Agreed, oh god, the haemorrhoids for YEARS. There's a damn good reason many women refer to "the fourth trimester". You don't necessarily realise your body doesn't instantly bounce back to some version of normal, and those mindfucking gossip magazines with their celebrities who magically lose every bit of pregnancy weight in eight weeks or whatever are perpetuating so many wrong ideas about pregnancy and childbirth.
posted by tracicle at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Agreed, oh god, the haemorrhoids for YEARS. There's a damn good reason many women refer to "the fourth trimester". You don't necessarily realise your body doesn't instantly bounce back to some version of normal, and those mindfucking gossip magazines with their celebrities who magically lose every bit of pregnancy weight in eight weeks or whatever are perpetuating so many wrong ideas about pregnancy and childbirth.
posted by tracicle at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
banjo_and_the_pork, sorry if it was. I know too many people who were forced/told they had to have C-sections that they totally did not need to have, and who cannot now have a VBAC.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:29 AM on September 1, 2015
We still see women as cranky and slightly-dim walking baby-containers when it comes to pregnancy, when in reality we are more like amoebas who have to split our entire bodies in half to reproduce. From the amoeba's POV, it's probably not a lot of fun.
posted by emjaybee at 10:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 10:53 AM on September 1, 2015 [11 favorites]
Oh, actually there was one bit that surprised me, and that was where she said she was "weeks overdue". Is that just poetic licence, or does that actually happen?
I guess 'poetic license' is one way to put it. There's no way she was actually weeks overdue, especially if she had preeclampsia, which is generally handled by inducing birth as soon as possible.
I was 2.5 weeks overdue and had pre-e. I am in the US.
posted by littlewater at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I guess 'poetic license' is one way to put it. There's no way she was actually weeks overdue, especially if she had preeclampsia, which is generally handled by inducing birth as soon as possible.
I was 2.5 weeks overdue and had pre-e. I am in the US.
posted by littlewater at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Question: I was under the impression, at least in the U.S., that anybody can opt to have a c-section, regardless of the medical necessity (and in fact, a lot of hospitals have pushed for it because they feel like it minimizes risk factors and/or makes more money). Is this incorrect?
I know there's a lot of strong feelings about it (I honestly don't get how anybody feels like it's their business unless they're a public health official), but as far as I was aware, it was still up to personal choice and most insurances that cover pregnancy decently will cover the c-section too. And even if doctors are insisting, nobody has to have one, though people may be intimidated into thinking that a baby or mother's health is at risk.
Curious, here. There's a lot of misinformation around about c-sections.
posted by Strudel at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know there's a lot of strong feelings about it (I honestly don't get how anybody feels like it's their business unless they're a public health official), but as far as I was aware, it was still up to personal choice and most insurances that cover pregnancy decently will cover the c-section too. And even if doctors are insisting, nobody has to have one, though people may be intimidated into thinking that a baby or mother's health is at risk.
Curious, here. There's a lot of misinformation around about c-sections.
posted by Strudel at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was born 11 days overdue. My mother's doctor told her it was because she had gained too much weight. I am not joking.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:16 AM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Strudel, my guess is that it depends on your doctor and your insurance, not your choice.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on September 1, 2015
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on September 1, 2015
I know too many people who were forced/told they had to have C-sections that they totally did not need to have, and who cannot now have a VBAC.
How can you know they did not need them? I had to have a c-section (as advised by doctors I know and trust very much) and had people question after the fact whether I actually needed it, and it made me feel very patronized.
posted by JenMarie at 12:33 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
How can you know they did not need them? I had to have a c-section (as advised by doctors I know and trust very much) and had people question after the fact whether I actually needed it, and it made me feel very patronized.
posted by JenMarie at 12:33 PM on September 1, 2015 [5 favorites]
How can you know they did not need them?
Many nurses, doulas, midwives, and doctors themselves, often admit that women get pressured into having C-sections when labor is "taking too long" (whatever that means). I went into the labor room with a friend of mine so that I could be her birth advocate if the nurses/doctors tried to ignore her birth plan mid-labor for the sake of convenience, and there was about an hour when the doctor on staff repeatedly tried to pressure my friend into having a C-section...right up until my friend's actual OB-GYN arrived at the hospital and told him to stop badgering her patient. My friend then proceeded to have a totally normal non-surgical birth.
I think there is a difference between people second-guessing any woman's C-section (a gross thing to do, 100%), and women who say that their experience has been an inordinate amount of pressure from medical staff to just go ahead and have a C-section to make things easier for everyone (literally the language they use, sometimes). There is also a LOT of evidence that women on Medicare are frequently pressured into C-sections because they are less likely to have outside support staff/experience advocating for themselves.
People who second-guess an individual's C-section are jerkfaces. But people who say they were forced/pressured to have C-sections are not therefore wrong.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:48 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Many nurses, doulas, midwives, and doctors themselves, often admit that women get pressured into having C-sections when labor is "taking too long" (whatever that means). I went into the labor room with a friend of mine so that I could be her birth advocate if the nurses/doctors tried to ignore her birth plan mid-labor for the sake of convenience, and there was about an hour when the doctor on staff repeatedly tried to pressure my friend into having a C-section...right up until my friend's actual OB-GYN arrived at the hospital and told him to stop badgering her patient. My friend then proceeded to have a totally normal non-surgical birth.
I think there is a difference between people second-guessing any woman's C-section (a gross thing to do, 100%), and women who say that their experience has been an inordinate amount of pressure from medical staff to just go ahead and have a C-section to make things easier for everyone (literally the language they use, sometimes). There is also a LOT of evidence that women on Medicare are frequently pressured into C-sections because they are less likely to have outside support staff/experience advocating for themselves.
People who second-guess an individual's C-section are jerkfaces. But people who say they were forced/pressured to have C-sections are not therefore wrong.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:48 PM on September 1, 2015 [9 favorites]
Like every other aspect of their lives, women are judged on how they give birth: C-section, no C-section, home birth, hospital birth, laboring as much as possible at home, going to the hospital at the first sign of labor, pain meds, no pain meds, the choices you make are up for scrutiny and even if you don't actually make a choice you are up for scrutiny.
I know we arrived here by way of natural selection but the toll on women getting pregnant and giving birth is horrific and so far out of proportion to any other animal. Not to mention the way that being 6 months pregnant or having a 6 month baby makes a human female almost defenseless.
Had I lived in a time before birth control and hygenic medical practices I probably would have died in my teens. I had two pregnancies and with both I went 2 weeks past my due date, labored fruitlessly for days and had a C-section. The main difference between the two pregnancies was that I lost the first baby and so the OB was prepared for an emergency the second time around. Instead of leaving the hospital to see his other patients like my first OB, my second doctor made sure I had an OB on stand-by 24 hours. I went in Wednesday night and Friday afternoon he gave me a deadline, "Deliver by 6:00 p.m. or we will have to go with a Caesarian. I did not want another Caesarian but there wasn't anything I could do about it. From 6:00 until 8:00 when they finally wheeled me into surgery was a very bitter time for me-- endless waves of pain that I knew were for nothing.
Two other very bad memories stand out for me. During my first delivery when the baby went into distress (and the OB was absent) the nurse started barking at me, "We need to get this baby out NOW!" I had already been in labor for 2 days, had had nothing to eat except ice chips and had had no sleep. Of course I pushed as hard as possible but short of reaching up and pulling my baby out with my hands there was nothing else I could do. It was terrifying and frustrating.
During my second delivery I was dying to see my baby but they whisked her away as soon as they got her out. All I saw was a tiny starfish hand out of the corner of my eye. My husband got to see her because he had a ring-side seat and could look around the barrier. Also he got to follow her to the nursery. My mom got to see her because they stopped to show her off. My mom's friends got to see her. Not me. I had to wait 2 fucking hours. I'm still angry. Can you tell?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:30 PM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
I know we arrived here by way of natural selection but the toll on women getting pregnant and giving birth is horrific and so far out of proportion to any other animal. Not to mention the way that being 6 months pregnant or having a 6 month baby makes a human female almost defenseless.
Had I lived in a time before birth control and hygenic medical practices I probably would have died in my teens. I had two pregnancies and with both I went 2 weeks past my due date, labored fruitlessly for days and had a C-section. The main difference between the two pregnancies was that I lost the first baby and so the OB was prepared for an emergency the second time around. Instead of leaving the hospital to see his other patients like my first OB, my second doctor made sure I had an OB on stand-by 24 hours. I went in Wednesday night and Friday afternoon he gave me a deadline, "Deliver by 6:00 p.m. or we will have to go with a Caesarian. I did not want another Caesarian but there wasn't anything I could do about it. From 6:00 until 8:00 when they finally wheeled me into surgery was a very bitter time for me-- endless waves of pain that I knew were for nothing.
Two other very bad memories stand out for me. During my first delivery when the baby went into distress (and the OB was absent) the nurse started barking at me, "We need to get this baby out NOW!" I had already been in labor for 2 days, had had nothing to eat except ice chips and had had no sleep. Of course I pushed as hard as possible but short of reaching up and pulling my baby out with my hands there was nothing else I could do. It was terrifying and frustrating.
During my second delivery I was dying to see my baby but they whisked her away as soon as they got her out. All I saw was a tiny starfish hand out of the corner of my eye. My husband got to see her because he had a ring-side seat and could look around the barrier. Also he got to follow her to the nursery. My mom got to see her because they stopped to show her off. My mom's friends got to see her. Not me. I had to wait 2 fucking hours. I'm still angry. Can you tell?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:30 PM on September 1, 2015 [13 favorites]
Do not read this if you are pregnant or thinking of becoming pregnant, or any other horror story.
Yeah, no. This is the attitude that kept my best friend ignorant of what to expect during her first pregnancy... there were a lot of things about her pregnancy and labor that did not go well and could have gone a little better had she known what to expect, but her mom was like "well honey i didn't want to scare you by telling you what all the women in our family have gone through, I thought it would be better if you were ignorant," which was the biggest bullshit decision ever. My friend is STILL angry about that... that she could have been armed with some knowledge and might have been able to advocate for herself more effectively, but that her mom decided it would be worse to "scare" her. Fuuuuuuck that shit.
posted by palomar at 2:04 PM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
Yeah, no. This is the attitude that kept my best friend ignorant of what to expect during her first pregnancy... there were a lot of things about her pregnancy and labor that did not go well and could have gone a little better had she known what to expect, but her mom was like "well honey i didn't want to scare you by telling you what all the women in our family have gone through, I thought it would be better if you were ignorant," which was the biggest bullshit decision ever. My friend is STILL angry about that... that she could have been armed with some knowledge and might have been able to advocate for herself more effectively, but that her mom decided it would be worse to "scare" her. Fuuuuuuck that shit.
posted by palomar at 2:04 PM on September 1, 2015 [18 favorites]
And I just remembered my grandmother's anger at not being told anything about what to expect during pregnancy or after delivery... she had her first child in 1948 and her nipples cracked and bled when she tried to breastfeed and it is 2015 and she is STILL ANGRY about the way she was treated during that whole experience and how much information was withheld from her, so much so that it brings her to tears.
Please don't EVER tell women not to seek out information that might help them make better decisions about their medical care, even if it's "scary" information that might not be all sunshine and puppies. Good lord.
posted by palomar at 2:11 PM on September 1, 2015 [21 favorites]
Please don't EVER tell women not to seek out information that might help them make better decisions about their medical care, even if it's "scary" information that might not be all sunshine and puppies. Good lord.
posted by palomar at 2:11 PM on September 1, 2015 [21 favorites]
When I was in the worst part of labor my primary thought was, "People do this? People do this again?!" They say that the memories of physical pain fade after you hold that baby in your arms, but it took about a year for mine to even start to fade. That combined with a traumatic newborn period makes me think, "People do this again?!" every time I hear about someone willingly getting pregnant again after their first baby.
Nope nope nope nope nope.
posted by Maarika at 2:16 PM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Nope nope nope nope nope.
posted by Maarika at 2:16 PM on September 1, 2015 [6 favorites]
Oh, actually there was one bit that surprised me, and that was where she said she was "weeks overdue". Is that just poetic licence, or does that actually happen? I knew it could be days, maybe even a week or a week and half, but multiple weeks? Goddamn.
This does happen. My friend from college was pregnant for nearly 10 months without any indication of fetal distress until they finally induced her.
You could be weeks overdue if the beginning of the pregnancy was miscalculated because it's done by the period missed.
Also, a full term pregnancy is considered 10 months:
Now the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), along with the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, is changing what’s considered full-term. While 37 weeks has been considered full-term up until now, 39 to 40 weeks is the new definition (37 to 38 weeks will now be considered early term). Late term is now 41 to 42 weeks, and the poor unfortunate souls still pregnant past 42 weeks will be classified as postterm.
It happens.
posted by discopolo at 3:06 PM on September 1, 2015
This does happen. My friend from college was pregnant for nearly 10 months without any indication of fetal distress until they finally induced her.
You could be weeks overdue if the beginning of the pregnancy was miscalculated because it's done by the period missed.
Also, a full term pregnancy is considered 10 months:
Now the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), along with the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine, is changing what’s considered full-term. While 37 weeks has been considered full-term up until now, 39 to 40 weeks is the new definition (37 to 38 weeks will now be considered early term). Late term is now 41 to 42 weeks, and the poor unfortunate souls still pregnant past 42 weeks will be classified as postterm.
It happens.
posted by discopolo at 3:06 PM on September 1, 2015
Yeah, let's all remember that for most of human existence, childbirth has been a pretty standard way for women to die. Modern medicine in the developed world has fixed exactly that part of the problem - we die less. The underlying injuries and conditions, on the other hand, are still there, and we now live with the (sometimes disabling) consequences. I mean, yay for not dying, but being unable to sit down without serious pain for a couple of months post-partum isn't just lol nbd.
posted by olinerd at 3:08 PM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
posted by olinerd at 3:08 PM on September 1, 2015 [14 favorites]
I really hate the advice that women shouldn't be aware of what can go wrong during pregnancy, actually. For preeclampsia, there's been studies which suggest the more aware the mother is about the symptoms, the better the outcomes if something actually happens. Pree is horribly dangerous, and it isn't called the Great Pretender for nothing. Women need to be able to advocate for their own care with information and confidence.
Then there's all the snake oil out there-- the Brewer Diet against pree! Utter nonsense. Been proven wrong in studies over and over and over again, but there are still midwives who make women feel bad for their own disease by making them think they got preeclampsia because they didn't eat enough protein. Or whatever.
A shout out to the Preeclampsia Foundation is in order. They're a great group of women, and they were incredibly helpful to me while I figured out what happened to me. Very smart and very supportive.
posted by frumiousb at 4:40 PM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
Then there's all the snake oil out there-- the Brewer Diet against pree! Utter nonsense. Been proven wrong in studies over and over and over again, but there are still midwives who make women feel bad for their own disease by making them think they got preeclampsia because they didn't eat enough protein. Or whatever.
A shout out to the Preeclampsia Foundation is in order. They're a great group of women, and they were incredibly helpful to me while I figured out what happened to me. Very smart and very supportive.
posted by frumiousb at 4:40 PM on September 1, 2015 [4 favorites]
I cannot for the life of me fathom the reasoning behind "don't learn more about this thing!". I am 22 weeks along and massively grateful for this thread, and for hiring that doula who will totally advocate for me while I'm in the middle of an all-body marathon.
posted by XtinaS at 4:45 PM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by XtinaS at 4:45 PM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
Having been a pregnant person in Australia, I wanted to note a few things that came up in my reading of the other comments.
The no veg or fruit thing is probably an annoyed overstatement, but yes, when I've been pregnant, there's been a lot of propaganda about avoiding listeria, which is present on every good thing the earth gives us to eat, and makes women choose between a delicious piece of Camembert, and a healthy pregnancy. Not really. Just like other places, whatever a pregnant woman does or does not do is always open for comment and criticism by everyone. In reality, you probably make a decision like: this sushi, from this expensive, high traffic sushi bar is probably safe / this sushi, from the discount shelf in the supermarket, probably not. Plus, the midwifes will hector you about what you eat, whether they actually see you eat or not, just like they will hector you about every single element of your pregnancy and childrearing, and when you come back a few years later, you will be astonished to find that what "everyone does" is now completely different, fashions and opinions having moved on, but it is a little disconcerting and 1984-ish when one year the midwives warn you superstitiously off substance A and then next time you see them substance A is compulsory. After a while, you read some books with actual science in them and do as you please. But not everyone can do that.
I myself was over two weeks overdue with kid number 3 and he was induced and that was terrible. When kid number 4 also came up to nearly two weeks overdue, I more or less refused to have an induction, and my obstetrician, who was otherwise a pretty obnoxious and overbearing pain, actually agreed we could continue with scans and so forth and actually *see* if the baby was in any difficulty before deciding to induce. I think she end up making it to an alleged three weeks over before I went spontaneously into labour, with no complications, she was as bonny as you'd like, and all was well. I am generally of the opinion that all this talk of dates is glorified guesswork, and we should be actually looking at the individual pregnancy because hardly anyone knows when they have actually, really conceived.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 7:53 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
The no veg or fruit thing is probably an annoyed overstatement, but yes, when I've been pregnant, there's been a lot of propaganda about avoiding listeria, which is present on every good thing the earth gives us to eat, and makes women choose between a delicious piece of Camembert, and a healthy pregnancy. Not really. Just like other places, whatever a pregnant woman does or does not do is always open for comment and criticism by everyone. In reality, you probably make a decision like: this sushi, from this expensive, high traffic sushi bar is probably safe / this sushi, from the discount shelf in the supermarket, probably not. Plus, the midwifes will hector you about what you eat, whether they actually see you eat or not, just like they will hector you about every single element of your pregnancy and childrearing, and when you come back a few years later, you will be astonished to find that what "everyone does" is now completely different, fashions and opinions having moved on, but it is a little disconcerting and 1984-ish when one year the midwives warn you superstitiously off substance A and then next time you see them substance A is compulsory. After a while, you read some books with actual science in them and do as you please. But not everyone can do that.
I myself was over two weeks overdue with kid number 3 and he was induced and that was terrible. When kid number 4 also came up to nearly two weeks overdue, I more or less refused to have an induction, and my obstetrician, who was otherwise a pretty obnoxious and overbearing pain, actually agreed we could continue with scans and so forth and actually *see* if the baby was in any difficulty before deciding to induce. I think she end up making it to an alleged three weeks over before I went spontaneously into labour, with no complications, she was as bonny as you'd like, and all was well. I am generally of the opinion that all this talk of dates is glorified guesswork, and we should be actually looking at the individual pregnancy because hardly anyone knows when they have actually, really conceived.
posted by mythical anthropomorphic amphibian at 7:53 PM on September 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
IN THE FUTURE BABIES WILL BE BEAMED OUT OF THE WOMB LIKE ON STAR TREK
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:01 PM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:01 PM on September 1, 2015 [10 favorites]
I went into labor at 29 nine weeks. I was laid up in the hospital for three weeks on a drip that left me cross-eyed, in what was ultimately a failed attempt to keep my son from being born. At thirty-two weeks, something happened, something so quickly that to this day, I am not really sure what the tipping point was, but a neonatologist and my OB walked into my room that morning and declared, "You are having this baby TODAY". On the pitocin drip I went, and my labor (which had been gentle and not painful up to that point, remember I had been laboring for three weeks already at that point. Three weeks I had not been allowed out of bed to use the bathroom or to bathe myself). WHAM my labor slipped into high gear, and the next few hours were so painful and confusing and really fucking scary. The room continued to fill with more and more doctors and nurses, preparing to deliver my baby, and no one save one nurse was talking to me about anything that was going on. Not like I had much to say, my contractions rolled in one after another and I left my body at some point. Drugs? Oh no, sweetie, no drugs. Your baby is too distressed, your body is too distressed, you have to do this naturally. I was utterly unprepared - I hadn't even been to a single Lamaze class yet! The hour it took to get him out was hands down the most traumatic experience I have ever had. The episiotomy cut was so deep and long, but because I was in so much pain, the relief it gave at the time was worth it (the recovery though, oh my jesus god). I screamed so loudly when I pushed, the doctor shushed me, telling me I was scaring the other patients, but by that point I was so far gone, I felt like I had reverted to a primal state. My mantra was "women do this all the time, women do this all the time".
My son was beautiful and healthy and blah blah blah awesome. When he was finally released from the NICU, I strapped him in the Baby Bjorn to do some shopping. A pregnant woman stopped to admire my beautiful little angel, and asked me about my childbirth experience. I launched into a tirade about how "fucking fucking awful" it had been, and how unprepared we are. I beg forgiveness here, I was still somewhat overrun by post-partum hormones at that point, and would never do that to some poor preggo now, but that poor lady was in tears as I laid it out. Her husband came over and dragged her away, hissing at me as he did so. I have never told my birth story to anyone currently pregnant ever again.
Childbirth is awful. I was not prepared, I wish someone had told me what was coming.
My new hobby horse is menopause. It is awful, I was unprepared, I wish someone had told me what was coming.
Women's bodies are HARD TO INHABIT SOMETIMES.
posted by msali at 9:09 PM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
My son was beautiful and healthy and blah blah blah awesome. When he was finally released from the NICU, I strapped him in the Baby Bjorn to do some shopping. A pregnant woman stopped to admire my beautiful little angel, and asked me about my childbirth experience. I launched into a tirade about how "fucking fucking awful" it had been, and how unprepared we are. I beg forgiveness here, I was still somewhat overrun by post-partum hormones at that point, and would never do that to some poor preggo now, but that poor lady was in tears as I laid it out. Her husband came over and dragged her away, hissing at me as he did so. I have never told my birth story to anyone currently pregnant ever again.
Childbirth is awful. I was not prepared, I wish someone had told me what was coming.
My new hobby horse is menopause. It is awful, I was unprepared, I wish someone had told me what was coming.
Women's bodies are HARD TO INHABIT SOMETIMES.
posted by msali at 9:09 PM on September 1, 2015 [19 favorites]
A shout out to the Preeclampsia Foundation
OMFG, it says right on the FRONT PAGE of this site "Changes in Vision" are a preeclampsia symptom! A serious symptom! As in, when I called the doctor's office three days before my emergency C-section and told the nurse, "hey my eyes aren't pointing in the same direction" the response should have been COME IN NOW, not "call an ambulance if something* happens before your appointment tomorrow"! I am so never ever having a second child, never putting my body voluntarily in the control of medical "professionals" again.
END RANT
*something, as in, I have a seizure while I'm home by myself?
posted by daisystomper at 9:56 PM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
OMFG, it says right on the FRONT PAGE of this site "Changes in Vision" are a preeclampsia symptom! A serious symptom! As in, when I called the doctor's office three days before my emergency C-section and told the nurse, "hey my eyes aren't pointing in the same direction" the response should have been COME IN NOW, not "call an ambulance if something* happens before your appointment tomorrow"! I am so never ever having a second child, never putting my body voluntarily in the control of medical "professionals" again.
END RANT
*something, as in, I have a seizure while I'm home by myself?
posted by daisystomper at 9:56 PM on September 1, 2015 [8 favorites]
I am not sure that this is a reliable account of it, but both of my birth experiences, while hugely painful and scary and full of bodily fluids... and I mean screaming at nurses and calling them cocksuckers births... they felt like nothing compared to the constipation and hemorrhoids afterwards. Maybe it's some chemical reaction that makes the birth seem less traumatic after the fact, but I remember sitting and crying on the toilet and thinking that this was SO MUCH WORSE than giving birth just 4 days before.
And for the judging that we go through with the birth, it keeps going afterwards with the breast feeding and the cloth diapering and the attachment parenting or not or cosleeping or cry it out or bottle feeding etc. My daughter would not latch, I did everything I could, I hired a lactation consultant, I rented a hospital grade pump when that didn't work. I was SO tired and still forcing myself to pump and pump at all hours of the day, and even after all this my milk was all gone by 2 weeks. And so formula it was. I would get so many offhand comments about it. I burst into tears at the pharmacy because some 17 year old cashier commented on my purchase of formula "You do know that breastfeeding is better right?". I cried so much, the hormones were crazy, I already felt like such a failure and it felt like the whole world was judging my failure as a mother. And it doesn't stop when they get older. My daughter is now in 3rd grade, she's inherited my OCD and ADHD and anxiety and so I feel that I gave her shitty genes too. Our social worker says that MY anxiety makes hers worse. Well thanks, that makes me feel better!
posted by Hazelsmrf at 10:21 PM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
And for the judging that we go through with the birth, it keeps going afterwards with the breast feeding and the cloth diapering and the attachment parenting or not or cosleeping or cry it out or bottle feeding etc. My daughter would not latch, I did everything I could, I hired a lactation consultant, I rented a hospital grade pump when that didn't work. I was SO tired and still forcing myself to pump and pump at all hours of the day, and even after all this my milk was all gone by 2 weeks. And so formula it was. I would get so many offhand comments about it. I burst into tears at the pharmacy because some 17 year old cashier commented on my purchase of formula "You do know that breastfeeding is better right?". I cried so much, the hormones were crazy, I already felt like such a failure and it felt like the whole world was judging my failure as a mother. And it doesn't stop when they get older. My daughter is now in 3rd grade, she's inherited my OCD and ADHD and anxiety and so I feel that I gave her shitty genes too. Our social worker says that MY anxiety makes hers worse. Well thanks, that makes me feel better!
posted by Hazelsmrf at 10:21 PM on September 1, 2015 [7 favorites]
And I guess in addition to being sort of horrified by the "don't let pregnant women read this thread" attitude is being horrified that anyone would want to keep this information from women who may not want to carry a child to term and give birth to it, and they are instead told that "your body knows what to do" and "it's all natural, we've been doing it for thousands of years" and "people do this every day." NOPE. IT SUCKS FOR A LOT OF US. Let's be honest about it and consider this as much of an "informed decision" as we do requiring women to look at ultrasounds of 6 week old fetuses. They have a right to know.
posted by olinerd at 12:30 AM on September 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by olinerd at 12:30 AM on September 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
IN THE FUTURE BABIES WILL BE BEAMED OUT OF THE WOMB LIKE ON STAR TREK
SIGN ME UP, SCOTTY!
posted by lydhre at 5:47 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
SIGN ME UP, SCOTTY!
posted by lydhre at 5:47 AM on September 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
My nearly-four year old is currently obsessed with babies and pregnancy, and wants to hear stories about her delivery in detail. She's seen the c-section scar and heard a gentle story about how she was in the NICU, but she wants to hear more details and more stories over and over, and it's made me realise how awful that pregnancy was because for the first time after being endlessly patient and going through difficult discussions with other children, this time I want to snap "No, we don't talk about that. Don't ask." I have to grit my teeth and answer calmly, then distract her as fast as I can.
You can't escape pregnancy. There's a finality to it - there will be a due date or an end, but there's so much out of your control and it's relentless. I can tentatively imagine a healthy easy pregnancy being a mostly good experience, but once something goes wrong - you can't take a weekend off, you can't postpone the delivery, nothing you do really makes things much better - you are swept along as a physical prisoner of your own body, bound to a child who is hurting you while your body and brain (and the world) tells you to protect this creature. It breaks you.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
You can't escape pregnancy. There's a finality to it - there will be a due date or an end, but there's so much out of your control and it's relentless. I can tentatively imagine a healthy easy pregnancy being a mostly good experience, but once something goes wrong - you can't take a weekend off, you can't postpone the delivery, nothing you do really makes things much better - you are swept along as a physical prisoner of your own body, bound to a child who is hurting you while your body and brain (and the world) tells you to protect this creature. It breaks you.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 6:06 AM on September 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I would say, I expected the worst from pregnancy and thus was pleasantly surprised. One major factor in my "great" pregnancy experience - I was unemployed. While I was stressed about income, my husband maintained a good paying job and I was able to rest when needed, get exercise and make healthy meals. I'm in the U.S. so this is either the "natural order" or I'm a lazy freeloader. Now that I've clawed my way back into the work force, the idea of being pregnant without being able to care for myself in that way is another big factor in the no-more-kids column.
My birth was a wild experience and ended in a c-section. In general, I feel it was positive and I got to experience a wide range of the birthing possibilities. Where things kind of fell apart for me was in the aftercare. I had been raising concerns about constipation months before delivery and then up until I left the hospital and was coo'd at and told that the softener would do the trick. Ha. This is now my advice to any new mom -- don't leave the hospital until you've poo'd. My post-partum doula confessed that she ended up back in the ER after birth due to the constipation.
I also didn't get enough rest or just care after birth in the hospital. I couldn't get enough sleep between the doctor rounds and checkup rounds and the rooming in baby needs. I wish I had hired someone to be with us in the first 48 hours after birth. My sister-in-law stayed with us until 3 am the first night and that's the best care we got. Some of the nurses were awful, some were great.
I didn't understand what the real care needs of my body were post-C. I stayed on pain meds too long (bad for poo) and it's all a fog.
Real care is both simple and elusive. It requires someone to focus just on you, without a lot of static and personal baggage. It requires someone with the right experience and a lot of empathy. Nurses are harried and likely personally unsupported in their work. Doctors have their own thing going on.
My spouse was amazing during this period. But you never know. But that's the other thing I encourage new parents -- train the partner in baby care. Hire someone trained in mama care.
posted by amanda at 6:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
My birth was a wild experience and ended in a c-section. In general, I feel it was positive and I got to experience a wide range of the birthing possibilities. Where things kind of fell apart for me was in the aftercare. I had been raising concerns about constipation months before delivery and then up until I left the hospital and was coo'd at and told that the softener would do the trick. Ha. This is now my advice to any new mom -- don't leave the hospital until you've poo'd. My post-partum doula confessed that she ended up back in the ER after birth due to the constipation.
I also didn't get enough rest or just care after birth in the hospital. I couldn't get enough sleep between the doctor rounds and checkup rounds and the rooming in baby needs. I wish I had hired someone to be with us in the first 48 hours after birth. My sister-in-law stayed with us until 3 am the first night and that's the best care we got. Some of the nurses were awful, some were great.
I didn't understand what the real care needs of my body were post-C. I stayed on pain meds too long (bad for poo) and it's all a fog.
Real care is both simple and elusive. It requires someone to focus just on you, without a lot of static and personal baggage. It requires someone with the right experience and a lot of empathy. Nurses are harried and likely personally unsupported in their work. Doctors have their own thing going on.
My spouse was amazing during this period. But you never know. But that's the other thing I encourage new parents -- train the partner in baby care. Hire someone trained in mama care.
posted by amanda at 6:24 AM on September 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Among the many, MANY reasons I'm glad to be childfree...stories like this just make me more confident of my decision. That poor woman, and all the other women who have told their stories in this thread.
If only the uterine replicator as described in the Vorkosigan books actually existed! Maybe by the time I reincarnate, it will.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
If only the uterine replicator as described in the Vorkosigan books actually existed! Maybe by the time I reincarnate, it will.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:59 AM on September 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
The uterine replicators are one of my favorite parts of the Vorkosigan universe.
posted by mogget at 2:06 PM on September 2, 2015
posted by mogget at 2:06 PM on September 2, 2015
I have to say that that one was one of the most viscerally horrifying pieces that I have ever read. I nearly passed out--literally--my ears were ringing and my vision was greying out. What a horrific experience for the author and one that, yes, should strengthen anyone's objections to forcing a woman to carry a baby to term.
Lesson reinforced: even a 'good' pregnancy (which this was clearly not) does damage.
posted by librarylis at 10:35 AM on September 3, 2015
Lesson reinforced: even a 'good' pregnancy (which this was clearly not) does damage.
posted by librarylis at 10:35 AM on September 3, 2015
And for the judging that we go through with the birth, it keeps going afterwards with the breast feeding and the cloth diapering and the attachment parenting or not or cosleeping or cry it out or bottle feeding etc.
Sing it. While still in the hospital, a lactation consultant looked at me attempting to get my 30-hour-old baby to latch on, then snapped, "You're not doing it right.You're starving your baby. I'll be back later when you're ready to learn how to do this right."
My subsequent meltdown was so severe that a (sainted, angel-from-heaven) nurse called my insurance company and bullied them into giving me an extra day at the hospital so the baby and I "could be taken care of." Then that nurse drew me a shower, made me some tea, and rubbed my back for 30 minutes while crooning, "You didn't do anything wrong, you're a good mother, your baby is fine, we'll make this work." And then SHE helped me latch, found me a nipple shield, and checked on me constantly.
We eventually got my daughter to latch on, but the fear of starving my baby was so, so strong that I worried constantly that my nursing was doing more harm than good, and to this day, nearly five years later, I cannot type or talk about the incident without tearing up.
And to this day, I retain a visceral loathing of lactivists and lactation consultants. I recognize this is totally irrational, but I keep thinking of the one I had who, when faced with a new mother who had never done this before, decided to use fear and shame as her communication tactics. And I think of how many other women she might have done this too, permanently freighting the experience of nurturing a baby with an overwhelming fear that your best efforts will never be good enough because you are not good enough.
I totally get why women who had traumatic birth and postpartum experiences would have fear and loathing for the medical establishment. It only takes one person acting like an asshole when you're at your most tired/vulnerable/mercy of your hormones to fuck with you for life.
posted by sobell at 5:05 PM on September 3, 2015 [19 favorites]
Sing it. While still in the hospital, a lactation consultant looked at me attempting to get my 30-hour-old baby to latch on, then snapped, "You're not doing it right.You're starving your baby. I'll be back later when you're ready to learn how to do this right."
My subsequent meltdown was so severe that a (sainted, angel-from-heaven) nurse called my insurance company and bullied them into giving me an extra day at the hospital so the baby and I "could be taken care of." Then that nurse drew me a shower, made me some tea, and rubbed my back for 30 minutes while crooning, "You didn't do anything wrong, you're a good mother, your baby is fine, we'll make this work." And then SHE helped me latch, found me a nipple shield, and checked on me constantly.
We eventually got my daughter to latch on, but the fear of starving my baby was so, so strong that I worried constantly that my nursing was doing more harm than good, and to this day, nearly five years later, I cannot type or talk about the incident without tearing up.
And to this day, I retain a visceral loathing of lactivists and lactation consultants. I recognize this is totally irrational, but I keep thinking of the one I had who, when faced with a new mother who had never done this before, decided to use fear and shame as her communication tactics. And I think of how many other women she might have done this too, permanently freighting the experience of nurturing a baby with an overwhelming fear that your best efforts will never be good enough because you are not good enough.
I totally get why women who had traumatic birth and postpartum experiences would have fear and loathing for the medical establishment. It only takes one person acting like an asshole when you're at your most tired/vulnerable/mercy of your hormones to fuck with you for life.
posted by sobell at 5:05 PM on September 3, 2015 [19 favorites]
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