ATHEIST license plate too offensive for Florida.
March 14, 2002 10:35 AM   Subscribe

ATHEIST license plate too offensive for Florida. The state has declared one man's personalized license plate as too obscene or offensive after he's had it for 16 years. This from the same state where you can buy a "Choose Life" speciality tag, which I'm sure some people also find offensive.
posted by ahughey (66 comments total)
 
No one tell fold_and_mutilate about the Manatee "EAT UMM" plate.
posted by ahughey at 10:37 AM on March 14, 2002


Southerners mixing Church and State? Who would believe it?! Next thing you know, evolution might become the target!
posted by sharksandwich at 10:41 AM on March 14, 2002


But it never occurred to him to give up his tag.

Lakeland resident Kenneth Vickery understands why. For 15 years, he has owned two personalized plates dear to his heart: "ALL4GOD" and "GOD4All."

Vickery was concerned to learn of Miles' run-in with the DMV. "They may cancel mine, too."

Miles should be allowed to display his message, he said, "if that's what they want to advertise."


regarding the God-plate guy thinking the atheist-guy should keep his plates. That is awesome. I have hope yet for florida.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:48 AM on March 14, 2002 [1 favorite]


Mmmm...kerfuffle. Well, KERFUFL

That's what my next personalized plate will say. Although by the time that happens, personalized plates may have gone the way of the manatee, er, dodo.
posted by Dick Paris at 10:50 AM on March 14, 2002


ahughey: Yeah, I'd say "choose life" reminds me too much of a certain Wham! video.
posted by raysmj at 11:02 AM on March 14, 2002


He should have just told them it was short for "A THEIST."
posted by straight at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2002


Wow, this has SCOTUS written all over it. I'm shocked that people would become so offended. If it said, "CHRIST4U" I'm sure it would've been okay though. This is ridiculous...
posted by BlueTrain at 11:04 AM on March 14, 2002


Maybe those Floridians voted for Bush afterall.
posted by plaino at 11:09 AM on March 14, 2002


The review was prompted by a complaint signed by 10 people, said DMV spokesman Robert Sanchez.

Wow. Can't fuck with that kind of statistical analysis. So if I have this right, only 10 of us have to object to something, put it in writing and its done? What a country!!!
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:12 AM on March 14, 2002


I recently saw two wierd ones in Philly: "THX AOL" and "2FAT4U". No kidding.
posted by adampsyche at 11:13 AM on March 14, 2002


Others have reacted strongly to it since he screwed it to his Isuzu in 1986.

"I had a wrench thrown at me in Jacksonville about 10 years ago..." he said. Another time, "someone surreptitiously tore up my tag and threw it in the bushes."


WTF? It's not like the plate said GODSUX or something. So many people are unclear on the concept of Freedom.
posted by jpoulos at 11:21 AM on March 14, 2002


In America, you can have any religion you like, so long as it's Christian.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:40 AM on March 14, 2002


Southerners mixing Church and State?

I'm not sure if Florida really qualifies as The South. Northern Florida is essentially the Georgia Annex, but the rest of the state is fairly un-Southern usually. Miami, Orlando and the Keys don't exactly scream Old South. I think it's more a case of "all the nuts roll down to Florida."
posted by ahughey at 11:41 AM on March 14, 2002


49 of us, from the states that understand the Constitution, should get license plates that say PHA-Q and roadtrip to Florida.

btw, dong_resin's FROM THERE!
posted by UncleFes at 11:42 AM on March 14, 2002


SCOTUS? I doubt it. No court is going to say that personalized license plates are guaranteed under the 1st Amendment.

I really don't get what the big deal is. An "atheist" licence plate in Florida is going to be highly inflamatory. And if they refuse to ban "atheist" on 1st Amendment grounds what do they do about the bozo that wants a "KKK" plate?

It's not like the guy can't just put a bumper sticker on his car that says "atheist" if he wants.
posted by boltman at 11:43 AM on March 14, 2002


[Miles] also is vice president of Atheists of Florida.

I wonder what the president's plate reads...
posted by ejoey at 11:53 AM on March 14, 2002


I have to agree with boltman.... In the final analysis, if the license bureau determines that the license plate makes some people upset enough to compromise their driving, then they should absolutely pull it. It looks like they have a pretty fair system about it: people complain, and they pull the license plate. It's as just as can be.

Also, like the man said: "There is a venue for people's free speech on automobiles and that's a few inches below the license plate," he said. "That's a bumper sticker."

Perhaps we should do away with personalized license plates all together?
posted by SilentSalamander at 11:59 AM on March 14, 2002


Oh, where to begin..

1) They're not only out to bother the atheists. Florida has outlawed the use of "JEW" on their license plates. (Background here.) No such ban on CHRIST or JESUS. But unfortunately for the governor, "JEB" is a no-no.

2) Before the state takes his plate away, it would be hilarious if Mr. Miles took a roadtrip to nearby Inglis, Fla., where the mayor has banned Satan. (nyt link). This article goes as far as to say, presumably straight-faced, "Most who disagreed with the mayor asked not to be named, afraid that, by speaking out against the mayor, they would be perceived as speaking for the Prince of Darkness."

3) Separation of church and state? What used to be a goal is merely a fantasy. Our esteemed president said recently: "America is a nation guided by faith. Someone once called us 'a nation with the soul of a church.' This may interest you -- 95 percent of Americans say they believe in God, and I'm one of them."

There is no longer a meaningful atheist lobby in the United States to counteract the deeds and intentions of Bush and Ashcroft with regard to the closing gap between church and state. For a while I considered being a member in American Atheists, but I find their tone often condescending and intolerant toward organized religion when the goal really should be a harmonious reliationship between believers and nonbelievers.

Arggh, it pisses me off.
posted by PrinceValium at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2002


Heh, Fes, I was hopping to go unmentioned in this thread, as I'm (a) only in Florida until I can leave and (b) all for death, silly license plates, and anything upsetting to religious people.
posted by dong_resin at 12:03 PM on March 14, 2002


They have no business banning license plates that state an absence of religous faith, not a comdemnation or blocking of anyone else's choice, or threat to anyone (a la KKK). Especially since they are willing to have the "Choose Life" plates that are far more inflammatory, by anybody's measure.
posted by Red58 at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2002


Apparently, FATNGRZ is okay. (Shout outz to the Obscure Store!)
posted by ColdChef at 12:14 PM on March 14, 2002


I have to agree with boltman.... In the final analysis, if the license bureau determines that the license plate makes some people upset enough to compromise their driving, then they should absolutely pull it. It looks like they have a pretty fair system about it: people complain, and they pull the license plate. It's as just as can be.

Yes. The article makes me more upset with the citizens who harrassed this man than with the DMV. The DMV is making a censorship move (based on public pressure) instead of a religiously discriminatory one.


For a while I considered being a member in American Atheists, but I find their tone often condescending and intolerant toward organized religion when the goal really should be a harmonious reliationship between believers and nonbelievers.

The FFRF might be more suited to your tastes.
posted by Succa at 12:17 PM on March 14, 2002


Florida is quickly becoming more unbearable than Texas.
posted by mariko at 12:21 PM on March 14, 2002


Mariko: What the?...Yeah, I guess you're right.
posted by ColdChef at 12:23 PM on March 14, 2002


I think personalized plates shouldn't be outright banned, if only to prevent me from ever seeing a complaint letter written with little heart flourishes dotting the i's.

Sheeyit, that's scary.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:36 PM on March 14, 2002


I live in Florida. There's a family down the street that has those "Choose Life" plates. They have a shrine to Mary in their front yard, too. I think I'm beginning to feel mighty perturbed at what's on those "Choose Life" plates, whatever they say. Mighty perturbed. I think a complaint to the DMV is in order. And that guy with the "ALL4GOD" plate? I'm not for God, although I understand that former Florida resident Mohammed Atta was. What an offensive license plate! Maybe I should lodge a complaint about that one, too.
posted by Holden at 12:38 PM on March 14, 2002


You folks are missing the point. As a resident of Florida, I take great comfort in the fact that there are absolutely no problems in my state for the government to deal with. Otherwise, they surely wouldn't be wasting time on this.
posted by rcade at 12:39 PM on March 14, 2002


I lived in Sarasota for a few years. Some church there had a schoolbus painted black with the word REPENT! in huge letters on both sides, and a huge full-color photo of an aborted fetus hanging off the back. Apparently that was not offensive to Sarasotans since I saw it for years.'
Florida is medieval. Half of it is the Deep South, the other half is a Carribean nation colonized by retired millionaires from Ohio who live on islands with drawbridges, separating them from the teeming masses on shore.
(Oh, and RE: Manatees. MANATEES: The Beef of the Sea. It's the only way they'll be saved.)
posted by twitch at 12:48 PM on March 14, 2002


Five fresh fish: I could not read your last post without saying a foul word. Please read this post as a written complaint. (Now where's that bloody heart over the 'i' tag!)

Sincerely,

Dyck Parys
posted by Dick Paris at 1:03 PM on March 14, 2002


My experience as a Florida native has convinced me that a lot of our nutty problems are imported from elsewhere, from where the weather gets too cold.

Still, this fellow does not have a right to his license plate. But may be he could try something even less subtle (NOT4GOD, or the like) next time.
posted by piskycritters at 1:06 PM on March 14, 2002


According to recent surveys, 14% of the US population has no religion. In some states it's as high as 25%. To put this in perspective, the 2000 census lists African Americans in the state of Florida also around 14%.

Does the DMV think that a license tag supporting African American ethnicity as "obscene or objectionable" as one supporting athiests? Probably not. Yet the US Constitution declares freedom regardless of ethnic origin AND religious preference.
posted by LuxFX at 1:07 PM on March 14, 2002


This whole thing just embarasses me. As a lifelong Floridian, I guess I'm just used to it. Hearing others point out how ridiculous this state is just makes me want to run away.

Just glad to know Im not the only Atheist in Florida.
posted by Dantien at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2002


Cold Chef: Actualy, that plate is on Florida's no-no list. Of course, that list could be post letter, or the Florida DMV is just as efficient as every other DMV in the U.S.

Also, note that "GOD" is also on the prohibited list, along with "IMSAVED", "JUDITH" and "GREG". Clearly at the Florida DMV there are people hard at work with intellects vastly greater than ours utilizing forms of logic that are way too advanced for us to really understand.
posted by dchase at 1:25 PM on March 14, 2002


dchase: perhaps so -- from that link, I just learned that every three-letter combo from DVA to DVZ is obcene! No DVD for me, I guess....
posted by dwivian at 1:29 PM on March 14, 2002


Dick: Ack! Sorry! Change that "shouldn't" to a "should"! Last thing I want is to see those damned little hearts.

"Judith" is banned? How odd.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:35 PM on March 14, 2002


(On the other hand, I suppose it'd only take ten people writing complaints about "Judith" to have her name banned...)
posted by five fresh fish at 1:38 PM on March 14, 2002


"GAY" is banned. So is "JCLORD." And "AMY."
posted by raysmj at 1:43 PM on March 14, 2002


And SMILE.
posted by daveadams at 1:48 PM on March 14, 2002


Judith is a total bitch. I'm glad she's banned.
posted by jpoulos at 2:06 PM on March 14, 2002


JUDITH is banned, hmmmmmm. What about JEWDEATH?
posted by sharksandwich at 2:16 PM on March 14, 2002


blah, personalized plates are dumb, i think they are all offensive. they should all be random, whose idea was it anyway, didn't people think it might cause problems? jeebus. and i hate the special plates too, saying i love art, or i like kittens, screw that, random numbers and letters!
posted by rhyax at 2:25 PM on March 14, 2002


*cries*
posted by judith at 2:26 PM on March 14, 2002


jpoulos: Judith is a total bitch. I'm glad she's banned.

jpoulos, you win the prize for being the first person today to make me guffaw. Loudly. Which is a good thing, since I needed a laugh to erase the rage-lines on my forehead. This story pisses me off like few ever have. Truly, atheists are one of the last bastions of "groups it's OK to mock, hate, ridicule, or keep down." Religion: you can't live with it, and you can't live with it.
posted by davidmsc at 2:34 PM on March 14, 2002


*cries*

Now see what you've done?
posted by snarkout at 2:39 PM on March 14, 2002


California's a lot more liberal. They don't mind my GRR ARG, though someone liked/hated it enough to steal the front plate, and they didn't seem to have a problem with KILL AOL either.

Us Californians are just more enlightened.
posted by kfury at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2002


I 8 GOD
posted by fuq at 3:21 PM on March 14, 2002


Florida is quickly becoming more unbearable than Texas.

It always was. At least Texas has good music, good food, and spiffy headgear. All Florida has is torrential rain, strip malls and serial killers.
I lived in Kendall(just outside Miami)for 2 years, the minute I crossed the state line into Georgia, I pulled the car over, got out and danced around screaming hallelujah.
posted by jonmc at 3:50 PM on March 14, 2002


my co-worker here apparently spotted one from FL that read A55 RGY.

yeah, no kiddin'.

hint
posted by fishfucker at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2002


I have a friend with the IL plates MR SIN {click for explanation}. It's proven to be a conversation starter; and once someone left a religious tract under his wiper blade. But then, this isn't Floridy.
posted by dhartung at 4:19 PM on March 14, 2002


Austin *hearts* Jonmc!
posted by ColdChef at 5:29 PM on March 14, 2002


Bridgeport *hearts* ColdChef. Danbury *hearts* ya too, Jake says so.
posted by jonmc at 5:35 PM on March 14, 2002


Atheists shouldn't be allowed to own cars, because if there's no God there's no morality, and if there's no morality, there's no reason to not run down pedestrians, so atheistic drivers will do so sans compunction. QED.
posted by EngineBeak at 5:52 PM on March 14, 2002 [1 favorite]


Those ain't real hearts, guys. Real hearts are written over top of lowercase-i's, in place of the dot. The only people who do that are fourteen-year-old girls, and women who forgot to grow up.

Beak: yer right! Better make it legal to shoot 'em all, let god sort out the details.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:53 PM on March 14, 2002


A few years ago in Virginia a bunch of people tried to get pro-Confederate plates made. The DMV banned them, but then this ruling was overturned on free speech grounds by a court. I can't find a good link, but it's alluded to here. This case was about the style of the plate, not the letters selected, but it seems to me that a similar case could be made allowing "ATHEIST."
posted by croutonsupafreak at 6:51 PM on March 14, 2002


You think having a vanity plate that says ATHIEST is tough in FL. Try having a normal plate from (gasp) California! And a Darwin Fish! That lady who rear-ended me hit my bumper right on the fish. Coincience... I don't think so!
It was almost as bad as Salt Lake, where I expected daily to find a burning cross in my lawn outside my apt because I'm an athiest. I am so glad to be out of there, both of there.
posted by eszetela at 8:07 PM on March 14, 2002


ACK! Now I'm going to hell for bad spelling... Atheist.
posted by eszetela at 8:08 PM on March 14, 2002


Re: Florida's no-no list. Why is 'BLKPOWR' there, and 'WHTPOWR' not?

I saw a "L DANCE' plate today. My guess is he is either sad and lonely, or owns a strip-club.
posted by mkn at 8:13 PM on March 14, 2002


jonmc, let me tell you, some parts of georgia are worse than florida or texas. this whole bible belt thing, yaknow?
as far as that "choose life" plate, does anyone else find not only its message unsettling, but how about it's color scheme! it would take a lot of willpower for me not to intentionally ram someone with a plate like that. as for personalized plate themes overall, i think my favorite is still "LIVE FREE OR DIE"
posted by sixtwenty3dc at 8:58 PM on March 14, 2002


Florida is a huge gravity well. That's why all the elderly end up there: they no longer have the strength to resist.
posted by solistrato at 9:21 PM on March 14, 2002


That is one mystifying list.

I don't understand why the ban on "DV_" plates, unless the problem has something to do with the word "deviate" (which I still don't really understand).

"0SHK0SH"? What the hell? Do they object to the overalls or the city in Wisconsin?

And, you know, "FAHRT". That's German for "drives," as in, "He/she/it drives." Come on. Who's truly offended by that? It's a mildly clever pun on a word that elicits mere immature giggles.

I do agree with the writer from The Smoking Gun (huh, it looks so indie, but it's owned by Court TV): that list is a great source of ideas for vanity plates in more tolerant states. [Hmm, I wonder if "69MEEEE" would go over well here in Minnesota....]

In regards to the original issue, though: I understand the Florida DMV's policy of pulling plates that people find objectionable. It makes sense from a bureaucratic point of view. The DMV probably feels they have to be as neutral as possible; letting one person keep a plate that other people find offensive (or whatever) is needlessly controversial. [This assertion opens up some arcane questions that probably are relevant to this discussion but too picky to bother exploring. Plus no one's going to post on this topic tomorrow, probably, unless they don't want me to have the final word.]

However, I do find it pathetic that people in this country (perhaps to a greater extent in some states than in others):
  1. don't understand freedom/civil liberties very well, and don't understand why it's important to protect it;
  2. are so petty and so cocksure (but deeply uncertain) of their own beliefs, they would take a guy's license plate away because his ideas question their belief systems, of which they've worked so hard to convince themselves.
I mean, you can say, "It's just a license plate, for (uh) God's sake," but in my opinion limits on freedom comprise a dangerously slippery slope....
posted by gohlkus at 9:36 PM on March 14, 2002


In Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, there's a guy who lives a couple streets from me who has the licence plate 'UCK 00'. I don't know how that got past the censors, but I figure that one's got to be worth at least $10,000. :-)

The Qld Dept of Transport sells vanity plates all at the same price, to the first person to buy, but there are ways of finding out who has a particular plate if you want to buy it from them. Hence a speculative market has arisen. I suppose if Australians buy and sell vanity plates, Americans probably do too :-).

Regarding the subject matter, "Queensland Transport reserve the right to refuse the issue of certain combinations." I doubt "Atheist" would get refused though.

Ash.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:51 PM on March 14, 2002


eszetela writes

"It was almost as bad as Salt Lake, where I expected daily to find a burning cross in my lawn outside my apt because I'm an athiest. I am so glad to be out of there, both of there."

No burning cross in my lawn, but a crossed burned in the lawn, also a nice scratch on my car for a simple "Religion is the Problem not the Solution" bumper sticker. Salt Lake and Utah are not Atheist friendly to say the least.
posted by onegoodmove at 12:25 AM on March 15, 2002


No one tell fold_and_mutilate about the Manatee "EAT UMM" plate.

~wink~

Now ya done it. Heads will roll.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:30 AM on March 15, 2002


Well, looks like he'll get to keep the plate after all. Thank God for that.
posted by dchase at 8:01 AM on March 15, 2002


From the article about the reversal: The ACLU was ready to step into the fray if Miles didn't get to keep the tag on his 1994 Toyota Camary.

Bear in mind that this is a "professional" newspaper...so what the heck is a CAMARY? A cross between a Camaro and a Camry?

Anyway -- very glad that the DMV "saw the light." And speaking of Floridian religious oddities, the mayor of Inglis was on one of the morning news shows today...you remember, the one who drafted a formal city proclamation to ban Satan from the town? This lady is downright delusional -- scary that she *truly* believes in a powerful, omniscient being with horns who actually lives "down there," hence the supposed logic of burying the stakes in the ground. One more thing - if it was this easy to "ban" Satan or his (her?) influence, then why not just issue a proclamation to ban him from our entire world? Or is Satan strictly a local phenomenon?
posted by davidmsc at 10:44 AM on March 15, 2002


as far as that "choose life" plate, does anyone else find ... unsettling ... it's color scheme!

The "Choose Life" bumper stickers feature black letters on a bright yellow field. This is the same color scheme used on all governmental license plates in Florida, such as on cop cars and school buses. This may have been a coincidence but it seems more like a subtle way of saying the state supports this particular plate. From a distance I get them confused sometimes. Evil!
posted by piskycritters at 2:52 PM on March 15, 2002


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