the party decides?
January 21, 2016 8:02 PM Subscribe
Good the fuck luck. You made your bed, now sleep in it.
posted by Ferreous at 8:06 PM on January 21, 2016 [45 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 8:06 PM on January 21, 2016 [45 favorites]
I'm not sure who this is aimed at. The conservatives that support the nomination of Trump are not the same conservatives that read the National Review.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:12 PM on January 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:12 PM on January 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
The editorial is so weird and full of cognitive dissonance. Can't bring themselves not to turn the whole thing into a compliment sandwich. He's awesome! We get it! But really, don't you want a career insider establishment politician like JEB!?
How to appeal to Republican primary voters 101:
A few short years ago, he was criticizing Mitt Romney for having the temerity to propose “self-deportation,” or the entirely reasonable policy of reducing the illegal population through attrition while enforcing the nation’s laws. Now, Trump is a hawk’s hawk.
Definitely call for a less strong plan on illegal immigration.
On foreign policy, Trump is a nationalist at sea. Sometimes he wants to let Russia fight ISIS, and at others he wants to “bomb the sh**” out of it. He is fixated on stealing Iraq’s oil and casually suggested a few weeks ago a war crime — killing terrorists’ families — as a tactic in the war on terror. For someone who wants to project strength, he has an astonishing weakness for flattery, falling for Vladimir Putin after a few coquettish bats of the eyelashes from the Russian thug. All in all, Trump knows approximately as much about national security as he does about the nuclear triad — which is to say, almost nothing.
They definitely prefer if their candidate is not blustery and violent on foreign policy.
Indeed, Trump’s politics are those of an averagely well-informed businessman: Washington is full of problems; I am a problem-solver; let me at them. But if you have no familiarity with the relevant details and the levers of power, and no clear principles to guide you, you will, like most tenderfeet, get rolled.
They deeply respect the capability of an experienced long term civil servant and are skeptical of businessmen.
Trump’s record as a businessman is hardly a recommendation for the highest office in the land. For all his success, Trump inherited a real-estate fortune from his father.
Republicans are known for rejecting the idea that America is a meritocracy where the capable get ahead on their own merit alone. Maybe propose a bigger estate tax!
His refusal to back down from any gaffe, no matter how grotesque, suggests a healthy impertinence in the face of postmodern PC (although the insults he hurls at anyone who crosses him also speak to a pettiness and lack of basic civility).
They want you to self censor, you don't want to come off as someone who always says what they mean even when it offends establishment Republicans!
etc. I'm cherrypicking out of context but my point is they aren't writing anything that is going to persuade Trump supporters, just appeal to NRO brand conservatives. It fails as both a conservative version of a principled stand against Trump because it is too complimentary and as a vehicle to lower Trump's support because half the criticisms are things people see as his upside anyway.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:16 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
How to appeal to Republican primary voters 101:
A few short years ago, he was criticizing Mitt Romney for having the temerity to propose “self-deportation,” or the entirely reasonable policy of reducing the illegal population through attrition while enforcing the nation’s laws. Now, Trump is a hawk’s hawk.
Definitely call for a less strong plan on illegal immigration.
On foreign policy, Trump is a nationalist at sea. Sometimes he wants to let Russia fight ISIS, and at others he wants to “bomb the sh**” out of it. He is fixated on stealing Iraq’s oil and casually suggested a few weeks ago a war crime — killing terrorists’ families — as a tactic in the war on terror. For someone who wants to project strength, he has an astonishing weakness for flattery, falling for Vladimir Putin after a few coquettish bats of the eyelashes from the Russian thug. All in all, Trump knows approximately as much about national security as he does about the nuclear triad — which is to say, almost nothing.
They definitely prefer if their candidate is not blustery and violent on foreign policy.
Indeed, Trump’s politics are those of an averagely well-informed businessman: Washington is full of problems; I am a problem-solver; let me at them. But if you have no familiarity with the relevant details and the levers of power, and no clear principles to guide you, you will, like most tenderfeet, get rolled.
They deeply respect the capability of an experienced long term civil servant and are skeptical of businessmen.
Trump’s record as a businessman is hardly a recommendation for the highest office in the land. For all his success, Trump inherited a real-estate fortune from his father.
Republicans are known for rejecting the idea that America is a meritocracy where the capable get ahead on their own merit alone. Maybe propose a bigger estate tax!
His refusal to back down from any gaffe, no matter how grotesque, suggests a healthy impertinence in the face of postmodern PC (although the insults he hurls at anyone who crosses him also speak to a pettiness and lack of basic civility).
They want you to self censor, you don't want to come off as someone who always says what they mean even when it offends establishment Republicans!
etc. I'm cherrypicking out of context but my point is they aren't writing anything that is going to persuade Trump supporters, just appeal to NRO brand conservatives. It fails as both a conservative version of a principled stand against Trump because it is too complimentary and as a vehicle to lower Trump's support because half the criticisms are things people see as his upside anyway.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:16 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
Eat yourselves.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 8:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'm not sure who this is aimed at. The conservatives that support the nomination of Trump are not the same conservatives that read the National Review.
They're hoping that one will notice it sitting on a table in an airport lounge and go back and do an interpretive dance for the rest of the hive.
posted by vverse23 at 8:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [32 favorites]
They're hoping that one will notice it sitting on a table in an airport lounge and go back and do an interpretive dance for the rest of the hive.
posted by vverse23 at 8:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [32 favorites]
Listen boys and girls, if you are faced with the real possibility of a Donald Trump as your presidential candidate, then Donald Trump obviously isn't your fundamental problem...
posted by jim in austin at 8:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [92 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 8:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [92 favorites]
I just
I mean, this is like the people behind the Manhattan Project coming out and stating that they categorically denounce the idea of making nuclear weapons
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
I mean, this is like the people behind the Manhattan Project coming out and stating that they categorically denounce the idea of making nuclear weapons
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:24 PM on January 21, 2016 [37 favorites]
The editorial is so weird and full of cognitive dissonance.
That's because it's not one editorial, is a dozen (or more), whose authors range from the principled to ranting lunatics. It's very helpful to attach the different names to the different statements, to see which ones have a vision, which are mere ego, and which still suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's because it's not one editorial, is a dozen (or more), whose authors range from the principled to ranting lunatics. It's very helpful to attach the different names to the different statements, to see which ones have a vision, which are mere ego, and which still suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
Popcorn anyone?
posted by Ber at 8:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Ber at 8:25 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I guess it's comforting to know once and for all that the problem that the right-wing establishment has with Trump is not that he is too repugnant politically or personally, but that he simply cannot be controlled by the powers that be
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:26 PM on January 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:26 PM on January 21, 2016 [13 favorites]
This whole situation reminds me of the Do Not Open This Door scene in Young Frankenstein.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 8:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 8:27 PM on January 21, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you look at the cover, I can imagine some people might not know if it's endorsement or opposition because the design with all that gold looks so Trumpy. "Against Trump? I guess it's about how hard he's crushed everybody who comes up against him!"
Also, lol.
Donald J. Trump Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
.@NRO Really important to save National Review from going out of business. We need a true conservative voice!
11:13 AM - 25 Apr 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 8:28 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, lol.
Donald J. Trump Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
.@NRO Really important to save National Review from going out of business. We need a true conservative voice!
11:13 AM - 25 Apr 2015
posted by Drinky Die at 8:28 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Right now Drudge is running a poll on the race, current results: Trump 36%, Sanders 23%, Cruz 22%, Rubio 5.9%....Bush 1.09%, Clinton 1.07%. It is just hilarious that a socialist is running ahead of the entire establishment pack on a right wing site like Drudge Report.
posted by 445supermag at 8:34 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by 445supermag at 8:34 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
Heh, I fully reject the suggestions going around that a lot of online Bernie supporters are former Ron Paul folks, but one thing the two very different groups have in common is their enthusiasm for doing things like stuffing the hell out of any online poll they can find.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:36 PM on January 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 8:36 PM on January 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
The editorial is so weird and full of cognitive dissonance.
That's because it's not one editorial, is a dozen (or more), whose authors range from the principled to ranting lunatics.
Oh, I was quoting from the NRO staff editorial. I haven't even dug in to the grab bag of guest goofballs yet.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:43 PM on January 21, 2016
That's because it's not one editorial, is a dozen (or more), whose authors range from the principled to ranting lunatics.
Oh, I was quoting from the NRO staff editorial. I haven't even dug in to the grab bag of guest goofballs yet.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:43 PM on January 21, 2016
Oh, this is a good one!
WOULD say?
WOULD say?
Could Trump run the table?
Donald Trump or Ted Cruz? Republicans Argue Over Who Is Greater Threat
This is why 2016 is different - an amazingly shallow bench
Trump-Palin: An Alliance of the Aggrieved - "Sarah Palin’s endorsement of Donald Trump is a bet on the triumph of identity over ideology." Identity like a specific style of Christianity; just don't be not-white.
How Sarah Palin Created Donald Trump
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
If Trump were to become the president, the Republican nominee, or even a failed candidate with strong conservative support, what would that say about conservatives? The movement that ground down the Soviet Union and took the shine, at least temporarily, off socialism would have fallen in behind a huckster. The movement concerned with such “permanent things” as constitutional government, marriage, and the right to life would have become a claque for a Twitter feed.Would say?
WOULD say?
WOULD say?
what the fuck is even going on?Could Trump run the table?
Donald Trump or Ted Cruz? Republicans Argue Over Who Is Greater Threat
With Donald J. Trump and Senator Ted Cruz battling for the Republican nomination, two powerful factions of their party are now clashing over the question: Which man is more dangerous?Are Republicans So Afraid of Ted Cruz That They’ll Let Donald Trump Win? Nevermind 'moderate' Rubio, and the fading of northeastern WASP Republicanism.
Conservative intellectuals have become convinced that Mr. Trump, with his message of nationalist-infused populism, poses a dire threat to conservatism, and released a manifesto online Thursday night to try to stop him.
However, the cadre of Republican lobbyists, operatives and elected officials based in Washington is much more unnerved by Mr. Cruz, a go-it-alone, hard-right crusader who campaigns against the political establishment and could curtail their influence and access, building his own Republican machine to essentially replace them.
This is why 2016 is different - an amazingly shallow bench
Trump-Palin: An Alliance of the Aggrieved - "Sarah Palin’s endorsement of Donald Trump is a bet on the triumph of identity over ideology." Identity like a specific style of Christianity; just don't be not-white.
How Sarah Palin Created Donald Trump
Like no one else before Trump, Palin saw a constituency on the right for a politics of resentment that sought as its champion a pure agent of chaos, unfettered by positive or substantive views. As David Frum has noted, Trump, like Palin, is playing to a populist, antiestablishment politics of white working-class cultural resentment. Like Palin, he’s insistent that conservatism is whatever he says it is. Like Palin, he’s less concerned with the abstraction of small government than with taking down the fat cats—the corrupt alliance of politicians, donors, and lobbyists.Really, Sarah Palin? Not the previous stylistically similar campaign of breakaway favorite of aggrieved white men, George Wallace?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:43 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
A diet, caffeine-free Marxist (really, the only thing wrong with being a Marxist is being a Marxist); a driven, leftist crook; and an explosive, know-nothing demagogue — all are competing to see who can be even more like Mussolini than is Obama. But in the caudillo department, surpassing even our own Evita, the Donald wins.Dafuq is this shit? Marxist? Evita? Mussolini? Holy shit it's literally pre-1950 for these people.
posted by Talez at 8:45 PM on January 21, 2016 [29 favorites]
Also recently from NRO: Inside the Secret Meeting Where Conservative Leaders Pledged Allegiance to Ted Cruz
posted by dialetheia at 8:46 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by dialetheia at 8:46 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
What about 1988/1992? Trump can also be formulated as Pat Robertson + Pat Buchanan + a li'l bit of Ross Perot thrown in.
It's like people don't even remember when there was mass disaffection and falling down and all that from Middle Americans.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:47 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's like people don't even remember when there was mass disaffection and falling down and all that from Middle Americans.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:47 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Old Magazine Yells About Clowns
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 PM on January 21, 2016 [46 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 PM on January 21, 2016 [46 favorites]
The color scheme of the cover puts me in mind of Saints Row.
Which is fitting, when you think about it.
Because out of all the GOP candidates, Trump's the one most likely to blow up the world.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Which is fitting, when you think about it.
Because out of all the GOP candidates, Trump's the one most likely to blow up the world.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:54 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
took the shine, at least temporarily, off socialism
Well, I guess it's good that NRO has realized that socialism is coming back?
posted by Automocar at 9:04 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, I guess it's good that NRO has realized that socialism is coming back?
posted by Automocar at 9:04 PM on January 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
What about 1988/1992? Trump can also be formulated as Pat Robertson + Pat Buchanan + a li'l bit of Ross Perot thrown in.
How an obscure adviser to Pat Buchanan predicted the wild Trump campaign in 1996
Perhaps its the job of NRO ( and David Brooks) to stand athwart the primary process, yelling stop:
Republicans warm to the idea of President Trump - "Fifty-six percent of Republican and GOP-leaning voters nationally think Donald Trump would make a great or good president. That’s higher than it is for any other GOP candidate. "
The keys to a Trump win on Nov 8 - "First, Trump must build a political organization that converts strength in the polls into votes. We will not know if he has done so until we see results from the New Hampshire and South Carolina primaries."
good old Fabius here outlines the conservative/populist mix that is Trump's platform,and contrary to Sanders, claims Trump is the revolutionary, seizing power outside the normal channels. There's just one problem: Trump represents the Republican base (or not?), the candidate voters demanded, all stripes incl. evangelicals[READ ME], in opposition to the donors and party elite and chattering classes.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
How an obscure adviser to Pat Buchanan predicted the wild Trump campaign in 1996
Perhaps its the job of NRO ( and David Brooks) to stand athwart the primary process, yelling stop:
Republicans warm to the idea of President Trump - "Fifty-six percent of Republican and GOP-leaning voters nationally think Donald Trump would make a great or good president. That’s higher than it is for any other GOP candidate. "
The keys to a Trump win on Nov 8 - "First, Trump must build a political organization that converts strength in the polls into votes. We will not know if he has done so until we see results from the New Hampshire and South Carolina primaries."
good old Fabius here outlines the conservative/populist mix that is Trump's platform,and contrary to Sanders, claims Trump is the revolutionary, seizing power outside the normal channels. There's just one problem: Trump represents the Republican base (or not?), the candidate voters demanded, all stripes incl. evangelicals[READ ME], in opposition to the donors and party elite and chattering classes.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:05 PM on January 21, 2016 [11 favorites]
And forget trying to determine whether he’s a conservative. Given that, at the suggestion of Bill Clinton, he has like a tapeworm invaded the schismatically weakened body of the Republican party, it’s a pointless question, because, like Allah in Islamic theology, he is whatever he pleases to be at the moment, the only principle being the triumph of his will.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:07 PM on January 21, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 9:07 PM on January 21, 2016
National Review has been removed from participating in the upcoming CNN debate by the RNC because of this issue.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:17 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 9:17 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
I couldn't make it through the whole article. Christ, these people can't put together a five-paragraph essay without fucking lying. And I don't mean lying about Trumpo the Hairpiece - I mean massive distortions of the recent history of the United States that I lived though. Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining, motherfuckers.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 9:19 PM on January 21, 2016 [28 favorites]
these people can't put together a five-paragraph essay without fucking lying
That's been the standard for "Conservative/Republican Intellectualism" since the Nixon Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's been the standard for "Conservative/Republican Intellectualism" since the Nixon Administration.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:31 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I mean, this is like the people behind the Manhattan Project coming out and stating that they categorically denounce the idea of making nuclear weapons
At least Oppenheimer and others regretted their involvement.
posted by Cash4Lead at 9:39 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
At least Oppenheimer and others regretted their involvement.
posted by Cash4Lead at 9:39 PM on January 21, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't think Trump can become president. But I do really hope he does not get so many primary votes that The Powers That Be have to murder him. That would be horrible for everybody on the planet except maybe a hundredth of a percentage who really don't have much to worry about in any case.
The Palin endorsement video was entertaining as hell for about thirty seconds but I had to close the window before she finished the word GREAAAAAAAT. It hurt my ears and the volume was very low. There are not many sounds that can inflict pain at that volume. Fingernails on chalkboard. Maybe one or two others.
posted by bukvich at 9:43 PM on January 21, 2016
The Palin endorsement video was entertaining as hell for about thirty seconds but I had to close the window before she finished the word GREAAAAAAAT. It hurt my ears and the volume was very low. There are not many sounds that can inflict pain at that volume. Fingernails on chalkboard. Maybe one or two others.
posted by bukvich at 9:43 PM on January 21, 2016
Democrats for Nixon . . .
was a campaign to promote Democratic support for incumbent Republican President Nixon in the 1972 election . . . led by John Connally a Democrat who had been Governor of Texas and Sec'y of the Navy under John F. Kennedy . . .
Polling cited by Connally indicated that as many as 20 million Democrats would cross over to vote for Nixon . . . troubled by Senator George McGovern's campaign . . . A September 1972 article in The New York Times quoted Connally as saying that increasing numbers of traditionally Democratic voters were leaving the fold because they "are afraid of George McGovern . . ."
Republicans for Hillary, anybody?
posted by Herodios at 9:44 PM on January 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Too bad, so sad. You made this dumpster fire, now you get to burn in it, GOP. I only hope you don't take the rest of us with you.
posted by yasaman at 9:45 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 9:45 PM on January 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
I was disappointed Mark Helprin's bit wasn't just straight Winter's Tale passages with Marcel Apand replaced by Trump.
posted by creade at 9:48 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by creade at 9:48 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
. . . I say to you againe, doe not call up Any that you can not put downe; by the Which I meane, Any that can in Turne call up Somewhat against you, whereby your Powerfullest Devices may not be of use.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:55 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 9:55 PM on January 21, 2016 [9 favorites]
Does this mean National Review is absolutely OK with Ted Cruz?
posted by zompist at 10:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by zompist at 10:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
Right now Drudge is running a poll on the race, current results: Trump 36%, Sanders 23%, Cruz 22%, Rubio 5.9%....Bush 1.09%, Clinton 1.07%. It is just hilarious that a socialist is running ahead of the entire establishment pack on a right wing site like Drudge Report.
I think there really might be something to this. I tuned into a local midwestern right-leaning AM station today and started to hear a Sanders campaign ad. I just kept waiting for what I thought was a soundbite to stop so that one of the conservative talk radio voices could come on and attempt to decimate it. But, no, that didn't happen. Sanders had taken out ad space on a conservative radio station. I don't think his team would have done this if they didn't believe there were a disaffected demographic out there with a sympathetic ear.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 10:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
I think there really might be something to this. I tuned into a local midwestern right-leaning AM station today and started to hear a Sanders campaign ad. I just kept waiting for what I thought was a soundbite to stop so that one of the conservative talk radio voices could come on and attempt to decimate it. But, no, that didn't happen. Sanders had taken out ad space on a conservative radio station. I don't think his team would have done this if they didn't believe there were a disaffected demographic out there with a sympathetic ear.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 10:02 PM on January 21, 2016 [22 favorites]
From Katie Pavlich, the editor of Townhall: "Trump has made a living out of preying on and bullying society’s most vulnerable, with the help of government."
So... he's a conservative?
posted by dhens at 10:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
So... he's a conservative?
posted by dhens at 10:18 PM on January 21, 2016 [14 favorites]
The Palin endorsement video was entertaining as hell for about thirty seconds but I had to close the window before she finished the word GREAAAAAAAT.
You missed the best slam poetry of this whole election cycle.
posted by dhens at 10:21 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
You missed the best slam poetry of this whole election cycle.
posted by dhens at 10:21 PM on January 21, 2016 [5 favorites]
I thought the narrative emerging was Trump vs Sanders, and Sanders wins?
posted by colie at 11:21 PM on January 21, 2016
posted by colie at 11:21 PM on January 21, 2016
All I can say is, we're three months away from the April 2015 "Hillary declares for 2016" FPP being even more dramatically ironic.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:32 PM on January 21, 2016
posted by Apocryphon at 11:32 PM on January 21, 2016
The list of so-called pundits who are a part of this effort in futility is a Murderer’s Row of loony.
As it is, the National Review is pissing into the wind. As mentioned above, the sort of voter who is pro-Trump and anti-GOP establishment doesn’t even know the National Review exists. Those voters live in another reality.
Honestly, watching the GOP establishment recoil in horror at what they themselves created is both entertaining and scary as all Hell.
posted by bawanaal at 12:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
As it is, the National Review is pissing into the wind. As mentioned above, the sort of voter who is pro-Trump and anti-GOP establishment doesn’t even know the National Review exists. Those voters live in another reality.
Honestly, watching the GOP establishment recoil in horror at what they themselves created is both entertaining and scary as all Hell.
posted by bawanaal at 12:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
You know you are in for it when Beck is the first name on the list. It's an alphabetized catalog of cranks you should never, ever listen to.
(dumb offensive meme) The predictable response from the Trump fans online.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:20 AM on January 22, 2016
(dumb offensive meme) The predictable response from the Trump fans online.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:20 AM on January 22, 2016
I don't understand why Trump is so dangerous, when his supporters are "mostly childless single men who masturbate to anime" according to MSNBC.
I'm not a Trump supporter!
posted by MartinWisse at 12:46 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm not a Trump supporter!
posted by MartinWisse at 12:46 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
We live in interesting times.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:49 AM on January 22, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 12:49 AM on January 22, 2016
We live in interesting times.
We certainly do!
In fact, I want to be transported back to the more boring timeline where someone like Jeb "Exclamation Mark" Bush is the Republican candidate. That's the one I was supposed to be in!
posted by sour cream at 1:25 AM on January 22, 2016
We certainly do!
In fact, I want to be transported back to the more boring timeline where someone like Jeb "Exclamation Mark" Bush is the Republican candidate. That's the one I was supposed to be in!
posted by sour cream at 1:25 AM on January 22, 2016
The b in Jeb stands for Bush. Jeb Bush is like ATM Machine.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 AM on January 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:41 AM on January 22, 2016 [12 favorites]
The b in Jeb stands for Bush.
Huh, and here I thought it's short for "Jebediah".
Jeb Bush is like ATM Machine.
He certainly exudes the same charme.
posted by sour cream at 3:00 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Huh, and here I thought it's short for "Jebediah".
Jeb Bush is like ATM Machine.
He certainly exudes the same charme.
posted by sour cream at 3:00 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Part of me thinks that conservatives made their bed and they can sleep in it. Another part of me thinks that conservatives like Trump and Cruz are too dangerous to be that glib.
Welcome to Weimar America: It’s getting restive in the beer halls. People are sick of politics as usual. They want blunt talk. They want answers.
Welcome to an angry nation stung by two lost wars, its politics veering to the extremes, its mood vengeful, beset by decades of stagnant real wages for most people, tempted by a strongman who would keep all Muslims out and vows to restore American greatness.
“We’re going to be so tough and so mean and so nasty,” Donald Trump says in response to the San Bernardino massacre. People roar. He calls for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.” People roar. “People want strength,” he says. People roar. His poll numbers go up. Pundits, even the longtime guru of Republican political branding, Karl Rove, shake their heads...
“Every time things get worse, I do better,” Trump says. He does. They may get still worse.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:20 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Welcome to Weimar America: It’s getting restive in the beer halls. People are sick of politics as usual. They want blunt talk. They want answers.
Welcome to an angry nation stung by two lost wars, its politics veering to the extremes, its mood vengeful, beset by decades of stagnant real wages for most people, tempted by a strongman who would keep all Muslims out and vows to restore American greatness.
“We’re going to be so tough and so mean and so nasty,” Donald Trump says in response to the San Bernardino massacre. People roar. He calls for a “total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.” People roar. “People want strength,” he says. People roar. His poll numbers go up. Pundits, even the longtime guru of Republican political branding, Karl Rove, shake their heads...
“Every time things get worse, I do better,” Trump says. He does. They may get still worse.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:20 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Jeb : Bush :: Gob : Bluth
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:32 AM on January 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:32 AM on January 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
So what does the NR do in five months if Trump is the Republican nominee? Support Sanders or Clinton?
posted by octothorpe at 3:32 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:32 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
But it does look like Cruz has much establishment support either:The Ted Cruz pile on: GOP senators warn of revolt should he win nomination
posted by octothorpe at 3:38 AM on January 22, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 3:38 AM on January 22, 2016
When I saw Trump and Palin on the same stage together on TV, it cemented my understanding of why so many of his supporters are still looking for Bigfoot, Elvis and the 1960s American Dream.
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:00 AM on January 22, 2016
posted by Nanukthedog at 4:00 AM on January 22, 2016
Jeb : Bush :: Gob : Bluth
Sorry, the Don Martin thread is three doors down.
posted by Herodios at 4:02 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
Sorry, the Don Martin thread is three doors down.
posted by Herodios at 4:02 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
I haven't even thought about reading NR since WFB died, and it had been going downhill well before that. Half the mythology of NR was WFB expelling the Birchers from the nascent conservative movement. They had a chance to live up to that legacy recently with the new batch of Tea Party crazies, and not only did they miss that chance, they actually embraced them.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:19 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 4:19 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gay blogger JoeMyGod has a post tag that reads "infighting is funny". And it totally is.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:31 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:31 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
So what does the NR do in five months if Trump is the Republican nominee? Support Sanders or Clinton?
ERICK ERICKSON: I would vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton.
I would love to pin some of these folks down, not necessarily EE but some of the others...and get them to explain to me in clear terms why Hillary is worse for the country than Trump. I don't think there is any coherent answer from the moderate Republican perspective. Trump is enough of a dangerous crank that even the standard partisan answer about Supreme Court nominations is not compelling.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:33 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
ERICK ERICKSON: I would vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton.
I would love to pin some of these folks down, not necessarily EE but some of the others...and get them to explain to me in clear terms why Hillary is worse for the country than Trump. I don't think there is any coherent answer from the moderate Republican perspective. Trump is enough of a dangerous crank that even the standard partisan answer about Supreme Court nominations is not compelling.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:33 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
There is not enough schadenfreude in the Universe to exhaust my enjoyment of this. This is where the GOP really pays the price for their opportunistic decision to try and co-opt the Tea Partiers in 2009. Sow the wind...
posted by hwestiii at 5:01 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by hwestiii at 5:01 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
With the conventions just around the corner, the following wiki page may be useful.
posted by Fizz at 5:10 AM on January 22, 2016
posted by Fizz at 5:10 AM on January 22, 2016
I keep telling myself that his numbers will collapse once in a one-on-one contest with the Democratic nominee and there won't be enough popcorn in the world to watch the show, but all the same he could possibly win, and I feel like we're all playing Russian Roulette with a double barreled shotgun.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [9 favorites]
Goose-stepping into the apocalypse.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 5:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I keep waiting for Trump supporters to start non-ironically wearing brown shirts to the rallies. I mean, they already rough-up anyone in the crowd seen as an interloper, with the candidate's egging on. Might as well go the distance.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:33 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:33 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
IMO Trump is the least terrifying Republican Presidential candidate. That fact is terrifying.
posted by humanfont at 5:37 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 5:37 AM on January 22, 2016 [8 favorites]
I keep telling myself that his numbers will collapse once in a one-on-one contest with the Democratic nominee and there won't be enough popcorn in the world to watch the show...
Why on earth would you think that?
A collapse of numbers has been predicted for a long time and hasn't happened.
Do you seriously think that if the Democratic nominee points out all the lies and hypocrisy, Trump supporters will say "Oh, right, now that you explain it that way, I see why I shouldn't give my vote to him but rather to the Democratic candidate."
Sorry, but that ain't going to happen. In fact, I think the chances are greater that he will wipe the floor with Hillary Clinton.
This is not a game of reason and truth, but rather of association and Trump is a master at that. So far, he's associated Hillary Clinton with "disgusting bodily functions" and "responsible for tens of thousands of American deaths." A further attack line that has "hyuuuge" potential is enabler of rapist husband. "I'm a feminist. I LIKE women. I like to PROTECT women. Hillary Clinton has NEVER protected women. She was always on the side of her rapist husband. We need to put an END to rape culture in this country. ..." That stuff practically writes itself...
posted by sour cream at 6:01 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why on earth would you think that?
A collapse of numbers has been predicted for a long time and hasn't happened.
Do you seriously think that if the Democratic nominee points out all the lies and hypocrisy, Trump supporters will say "Oh, right, now that you explain it that way, I see why I shouldn't give my vote to him but rather to the Democratic candidate."
Sorry, but that ain't going to happen. In fact, I think the chances are greater that he will wipe the floor with Hillary Clinton.
This is not a game of reason and truth, but rather of association and Trump is a master at that. So far, he's associated Hillary Clinton with "disgusting bodily functions" and "responsible for tens of thousands of American deaths." A further attack line that has "hyuuuge" potential is enabler of rapist husband. "I'm a feminist. I LIKE women. I like to PROTECT women. Hillary Clinton has NEVER protected women. She was always on the side of her rapist husband. We need to put an END to rape culture in this country. ..." That stuff practically writes itself...
posted by sour cream at 6:01 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump's unfavorability is ridiculously bad with Independents and Democrats. It's so bad that Democrats believe a Trump at the top of the ticket will hurt down-ticket Republicans, which I'm 90% certain is why Obama referenced Trump obliquely multiple times in his last SoTU. Clinton and Sanders could both route Trump, although I still think Clinton is going to take the nomination.
posted by GameDesignerBen at 6:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by GameDesignerBen at 6:13 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have an demon inside me that whispers evil thoughts in my ear. It says, "Trump is your best choice for president... You're a middle-class white male who has an indispensable job working for very wealthy white males. Forget about the poor. Forget about all the brown people in our country and in others. Forget about the rights of women. You know what's best for you and yours..."
I've learned to ignore that little demon over the last twenty years, but in the end I don't think the Republican establishment will ignore theirs. Trump will have the full support of the Republican party. Even from these clowns who wrote the articles. And God help me I feel like he might win if just because it would be the worst possible outcome. Apparently the new meds are working as well as they should.
posted by charred husk at 6:18 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've learned to ignore that little demon over the last twenty years, but in the end I don't think the Republican establishment will ignore theirs. Trump will have the full support of the Republican party. Even from these clowns who wrote the articles. And God help me I feel like he might win if just because it would be the worst possible outcome. Apparently the new meds are working as well as they should.
posted by charred husk at 6:18 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Donald Trump Is Really Unpopular With General Election Voters:
Gallup polling conducted over the past six weeks found Trump with a -27-percentage-point net favorability rating among independent voters, and a -70-point net rating among Democrats; both marks are easily the worst in the GOP field.posted by octothorpe at 6:22 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was one of those that was absolutely CERTAIN that Trump was bread and circus, and when the masses bored of the spectacle, some other, more mainstream republican would take over. I cannot believe how wrong I continue to be on this and I feel like I have no fucking idea what is going on.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:41 AM on January 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 6:41 AM on January 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
I wonder how big of a terrorist attack we'd need to make Trump the favorite in the general? Could one or two brown guys with guns do it, or would there need to be a truck bomb or something?
posted by ryanrs at 6:43 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ryanrs at 6:43 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
So what does the NR do in five months if Trump is the Republican nominee? Support Sanders or Clinton?
They will bite their tongue and say, like Orrin Hatch in this piece,
Do you seriously think that if the Democratic nominee points out all the lies and hypocrisy, Trump supporters will say "Oh, right, now that you explain it that way, I see why I shouldn't give my vote to him but rather to the Democratic candidate."
Neither Clinton or Sanders (or any other possible Democratic candidate) will get the vote of anyone who's supporting Trump now. They're committed. Write them off. OTOH, if either Clinton or Sanders got every vote that Obama got in '08 and '12 and Trump were to get every vote received by McCain or Romney, it's a Democratic win. And if you further subtract from a Trump vote every Republican who won't vote for Trump—and there are some, how many is the question—it's a bigger Democratic win.
A Trump presidency isn't impossible, but right now the chances of such rely entirely on assuming that Americans want Trump so badly that they'll vote very differently than they did in the last two elections.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:44 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
They will bite their tongue and say, like Orrin Hatch in this piece,
"I've come around a little bit on Trump ... I'm not so sure we'd lose if he's our nominee because he's appealing to people who a lot of the Republican candidates have not appealed to in the past."That piece is an interesting round up of Republicans who are saying that they prefer Trump over Cruz largely, as it appears, because they hate Cruz and they think that Donald's dumb and inexperienced enough to be harnessed. (They believed the same about Palin.)
Do you seriously think that if the Democratic nominee points out all the lies and hypocrisy, Trump supporters will say "Oh, right, now that you explain it that way, I see why I shouldn't give my vote to him but rather to the Democratic candidate."
Neither Clinton or Sanders (or any other possible Democratic candidate) will get the vote of anyone who's supporting Trump now. They're committed. Write them off. OTOH, if either Clinton or Sanders got every vote that Obama got in '08 and '12 and Trump were to get every vote received by McCain or Romney, it's a Democratic win. And if you further subtract from a Trump vote every Republican who won't vote for Trump—and there are some, how many is the question—it's a bigger Democratic win.
A Trump presidency isn't impossible, but right now the chances of such rely entirely on assuming that Americans want Trump so badly that they'll vote very differently than they did in the last two elections.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:44 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I cannot believe how wrong I continue to be on this and I feel like I have no fucking idea what is going on.
I'm pretty sure no one has any fucking idea what is going on.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on January 22, 2016
I'm pretty sure no one has any fucking idea what is going on.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:07 AM on January 22, 2016
Headline I'd like to see in the WSJ: "ConAgra Stock Prices Soar as Orville Redenbacher's Posts Record Popcorn Sales Among Democrats"
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:17 AM on January 22, 2016
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:17 AM on January 22, 2016
You told us that America could be saved by CEOs who knows squat about politics. You said political experience doesn't help, and is actually a liability. So reap what you've sown.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 AM on January 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 7:25 AM on January 22, 2016 [15 favorites]
My knee-jerk "reap what you sow, muthafuckas!" response is somewhat tempered by my fear that they're going to somehow win and make ALL of us reap it.
It's been a rough few decades for liberals in the U.S. I won't relax till Clinton or Sanders is declared the President. I'm still worried about voting machine shenanigans, voter suppression and other attempts to just steal the Presidency and kill off democracy for good.
And should we make it past this perilous stage to a Democratic president, then the real fun will begin.
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's been a rough few decades for liberals in the U.S. I won't relax till Clinton or Sanders is declared the President. I'm still worried about voting machine shenanigans, voter suppression and other attempts to just steal the Presidency and kill off democracy for good.
And should we make it past this perilous stage to a Democratic president, then the real fun will begin.
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
This article makes me want to pour myself a scotch, sit back in a leather armchair, and enjoy a nice fire while jazz plays over the hi-fi.
posted by Theta States at 8:07 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 8:07 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I am a Canadian. I live in Toronto. And I tell you: if Rob Ford can become mayor of Toronto, Donald Trump can become President of the United States.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:15 AM on January 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 8:15 AM on January 22, 2016 [26 favorites]
if Rob Ford can become mayor of Toronto, Donald Trump can become President of the United States.
What a shame Marion Berry's dead. He'd be just the veep Trump needs.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:31 AM on January 22, 2016
What a shame Marion Berry's dead. He'd be just the veep Trump needs.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:31 AM on January 22, 2016
I am a Republican who will vote dem or stay home if trump is the nominee. He's horrific.
posted by TestamentToGrace at 8:40 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by TestamentToGrace at 8:40 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Why do I keep thinking of The Dead Zone?
posted by gottabefunky at 8:50 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 8:50 AM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
Protip: Steer clear of any Reichstags for the time being.
posted by whuppy at 9:16 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 9:16 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've said it before and I'll say it again:
Trump is the American Berlusconi.
"Look at Italy if you want to see how our future authoritarianism will look."
posted by joedan at 9:34 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump is the American Berlusconi.
"Look at Italy if you want to see how our future authoritarianism will look."
posted by joedan at 9:34 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Movement Conservatism vs. Trump - "The same people that endorsed Romney for president in his first campaign are very concerned about the nomination of an opportunistic, unprincipled businessman"
Talking Trump’s Chances - "I agree with Silver that the party isn’t deciding for Trump. But the party is deciding what they will do if there’s a Trump-Cruz race after New Hampshire. And on that question, they seem to be preparing to deal with Trump. And that leaves Trump in a much stronger position than Cruz in that eventuality."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:42 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Talking Trump’s Chances - "I agree with Silver that the party isn’t deciding for Trump. But the party is deciding what they will do if there’s a Trump-Cruz race after New Hampshire. And on that question, they seem to be preparing to deal with Trump. And that leaves Trump in a much stronger position than Cruz in that eventuality."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:42 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
Man! Ted Cruz, the candidate so disliked that the party would prefer to have to beat back Trump.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
are you nostalgic for those Reagan Republicans?
more on the MARsians:
From Household to Nation: The Middle American Populism of Pat Buchanan, Samuel Francis in 1996, hosted on unz.com
Or Le Pen? Or Wilders? Or Soini? Or Vona?
ref: The Poor Rich
Say what you will about ... something something, at least it's an ethos: In Nothing We Trust
Obnoxiousness is the New Charisma
cstross:
more on the MARsians:
From Household to Nation: The Middle American Populism of Pat Buchanan, Samuel Francis in 1996, hosted on unz.com
Pat listened, but I can't say he took my advice. By making his bed with the Republicans, then and today, he opens himself to charges that he's not a "true" party man or a "true" conservative, constrains his chances for victory by the need to massage trunk-waving Republicans whose highest goal is to win elections, and only dilutes and deflects the radicalism of the message he and his Middle American Revolution have to offer.Trump is the American Berlusconi.
The sooner we hear that message loudly and cleady, without distractions from Conservatism, Inc., the Stupid Party, and their managerial elite, the sooner Middle America will be able to speak with an authentic and united voice, and the sooner we can get on with conserving the nation from the powers that are destroying it.
Or Le Pen? Or Wilders? Or Soini? Or Vona?
ref: The Poor Rich
Nationalists today distrust the elites, but only because they feel betrayed by them, because they see them as agents of a “globalist” progressive agenda that favors the rights of minorities, immigrants, welfare recipients, and big business over those of “ordinary people.” What they are calling for – those that do not completely succumb to apathetic cynicism, that is – is a new, more ruthless leadership that will be once again loyal to them. As Donald Trump said in one of his speeches: “I will make America so great again, you will be so proud again to be an American.”Sympathy for the (blue-eyed) devil- "Want to convince lower income white Americans that they are voting against their interests? Explain how you can offer them something better than white supremacy. When we understand what white supremacy actually delivered for these folks, the scale of our challenge in building a just post-racial society becomes evident."
Say what you will about ... something something, at least it's an ethos: In Nothing We Trust
Whitmire is an angry man. He is among a group of voters most skeptical of President Obama: noncollege-educated white males. He feels betrayed—not just by Obama, who won his vote in 2008, but by the institutions that were supposed to protect him: his state, which laid off his wife; his government in Washington, which couldn’t rescue homeowners who had played by the rules; his bank, which failed to walk him through the correct paperwork or warn him about a potential mortgage hike; his city, which penalized him for somebody else’s error; and even his employer, a construction company he likes even though he got laid off. “I was middle class for 10 years, but it’s done,” Whitmire says. “I’ve lost my home. I live in a trailer now because of a mortgage company and an incompetent government.”Trump’s Campaign Is Damaging His Brand
Whitmire is a story of Muncie, and Muncie is the story of America. In this place—dubbed “Middletown” by early 20th-century sociologists—people have lost faith in their institutions.
Obnoxiousness is the New Charisma
cstross:
But here's the key take-away: 2016 will be the first US Presidential Election where the outcome will be visibly influenced by telepathic broadcasts direct from the political id, with the more plugged-in candidates (cough, Donald Trump) speaking in tweets rather than TV-friendly sound-bites and making their play in real time to their audience reactions, much like the plot of a novel co-written by Neal Stephenson before he got famous. If you've wondered why Trump can say the things he says, it's because his core constituency want him to.posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:00 AM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I just keep staring at the design choices for that cover. Gold against regal purple. It's like no matter how hard they claim they're the bulwark of American democracy they can't hide their deepest desire, which is to be the trusted courtiers of an absolute Pope-King.
posted by benito.strauss at 10:04 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 10:04 AM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Trump just straight-up retweeted an account called WhiteGenocideTM.
SURELY THIS.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
SURELY THIS.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:21 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's like no matter how hard they claim they're the bulwark of American democracy they can't hide their deepest desire, which is to be the trusted courtiers of an absolute Pope-King.
"Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king!"
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 10:52 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Your guilty conscience may move you to vote Democratic, but deep down you long for a cold-hearted Republican to lower taxes, brutalize criminals, and rule you like a king!"
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 10:52 AM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
WaPo: The inside story of National Review’s big anti-Donald Trump issue
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:12 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
FIX: At what point did you arrive at the conclusion that this was the right approach? “We as a conservative collective need to stand up and say, ‘This isn’t the guy for us.’”WaPo: A YUGE number of conservatives just shredded Donald Trump in the National Review - "Inflammatory rhetoric — a centerpiece of standard Trump coverage — is only a minor point in this compendium, when it comes up at all. The unifying argument is that Trump simply isn't a reliable conservative. Put another way: You shouldn't vote against Trump because he says mean things; you should vote against Trump because he isn't who or what you think he is."
LOWRY: Again, about a month or so. Endorsements are done collectively by our top editors. We’re a little all-over-the-map on the other guys, but we’re convinced that Trump is a mistake. So we were ready to make this mistake. That’s one. Two, it’s been irritating over the last eight months hearing that it’s the “establishment” that opposes Trump. All along, there have been principled conservatives opposing him. So we wanted to gather together a group to make that point quite dramatically. And there are people in this group who’ve criticized each other, who I’m sure don’t like each other very much, who’ve criticized National Review over the years — but they all thought making a statement about Trump was more important than those past rivalries.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:12 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Say what you will about ... something something, at least it's an ethos: In Nothing We Trust
If only: Nearly nine decades ago, sociologists Robert and Helen Lynd moved here to document the transition away from an agrarian economy. Americans were battered by unbridled commercialism, stymied by an incompetent government beholden to special interests, and flustered by new technologies and new media. The Lynds found a loss of faith in social institutions. But, somehow, institutions adapted or gave way to vibrant new ones. The Catholic Church took on poverty, illness, and illiteracy. The Progressive movement, embodied by Theodore Roosevelt, grappled with the social costs of modernization and equipped the government to offset them. Labor unions reined in the corporate excesses of the new economy. Fraternal organizations, a new concept, gave people a sense of community that was lost when knitting circles and barn-raisings died out.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:26 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
If only: Nearly nine decades ago, sociologists Robert and Helen Lynd moved here to document the transition away from an agrarian economy. Americans were battered by unbridled commercialism, stymied by an incompetent government beholden to special interests, and flustered by new technologies and new media. The Lynds found a loss of faith in social institutions. But, somehow, institutions adapted or gave way to vibrant new ones. The Catholic Church took on poverty, illness, and illiteracy. The Progressive movement, embodied by Theodore Roosevelt, grappled with the social costs of modernization and equipped the government to offset them. Labor unions reined in the corporate excesses of the new economy. Fraternal organizations, a new concept, gave people a sense of community that was lost when knitting circles and barn-raisings died out.
posted by Apocryphon at 11:26 AM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
gottabefunky: "Why do I keep thinking of The Dead Zone?"
Stillson for prez!
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on January 22, 2016
Stillson for prez!
posted by Chrysostom at 11:47 AM on January 22, 2016
Trump is the American Berlusconi.
They certainly have a few things in common:
Glibness/superficial charm? - Check
Grandiose sense of self-worth? - Check
Pathological lying? - Check
Cunning/manipulative? - Check
Lack of remorse or guilt? - Check
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)? - (Probably) check
Lack of empathy? - Check
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions? - Check
If there only were a concise word to describe someone with these personality traits!
posted by sour cream at 12:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
They certainly have a few things in common:
Glibness/superficial charm? - Check
Grandiose sense of self-worth? - Check
Pathological lying? - Check
Cunning/manipulative? - Check
Lack of remorse or guilt? - Check
Shallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)? - (Probably) check
Lack of empathy? - Check
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions? - Check
If there only were a concise word to describe someone with these personality traits!
posted by sour cream at 12:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Politician?
posted by malocchio at 12:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by malocchio at 12:31 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sociopath.
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeZydeco at 12:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Kotaku: Let's Make Anime Great Again with Donald Trump!
Forbes: Why Getting Off To Anime Porn Is Shorthand For Supporting Donald Trump
I can no longer tell who's trolling whom.
posted by dgaicun at 12:48 PM on January 22, 2016
Forbes: Why Getting Off To Anime Porn Is Shorthand For Supporting Donald Trump
I can no longer tell who's trolling whom.
posted by dgaicun at 12:48 PM on January 22, 2016
Neither Clinton or Sanders (or any other possible Democratic candidate) will get the vote of anyone who's supporting Trump now
That's not true at all. Dig through the comments on Facebook posts by the major Sanders and Trump supporter pages. Without much effort you will find people saying if Trump doesn't get the nomination, they'll vote for Sanders, and vice versa. I've also seen more than a few people saying Sanders or Trump, either is good. It's the populism more than the policies that really motivate some people.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:52 PM on January 22, 2016
That's not true at all. Dig through the comments on Facebook posts by the major Sanders and Trump supporter pages. Without much effort you will find people saying if Trump doesn't get the nomination, they'll vote for Sanders, and vice versa. I've also seen more than a few people saying Sanders or Trump, either is good. It's the populism more than the policies that really motivate some people.
posted by krinklyfig at 12:52 PM on January 22, 2016
I honestly don't know what to make of "If not Trump, then Sanders!" though. Except as pure LOL I HAZ DISRUPTED YR PREZDENCY trolling, maybe.
"I will take the fascist reality star, or the socialist Jew! Because either would upset the squares, yuk yuk!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:10 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
"I will take the fascist reality star, or the socialist Jew! Because either would upset the squares, yuk yuk!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:10 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
dhens you are not a nice person. I cannot believe I was dumb enough to click on that thing.
I wish I had been a fly on the wall when John McCain heard Palin endorsed Trump. There is a clear picture in my mind's eye of him throwing a scotch bottle through a 42-inch television screen with veins bulging out of his bright red neck and froth exploding from his mouth and nose.
posted by bukvich at 1:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
I wish I had been a fly on the wall when John McCain heard Palin endorsed Trump. There is a clear picture in my mind's eye of him throwing a scotch bottle through a 42-inch television screen with veins bulging out of his bright red neck and froth exploding from his mouth and nose.
posted by bukvich at 1:16 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dig through the comments on Facebook posts by the major Sanders and Trump supporter pages. Without much effort you will find people saying if Trump doesn't get the nomination, they'll vote for Sanders, and vice versa. I've also seen more than a few people saying Sanders or Trump, either is good. It's the populism more than the policies that really motivate some people.
It's the ANGER that's the motivator for people like that. If you really consider Sanders and Trump interchangeable, you have the political insight of a walnut and you're simply flat-out pissed off at The Establishment. (Or whoever you've been told to be pissed off at.) That kind of millimeter-deep grar lends itself easily to grumping on message boards, but I'll be surprised if people get out and vote for people with diametrically opposed beliefs just because "it's someone different."
Meanwhile, goddamn it. Bill "Bag of Salted Dicks" Kristol is on that National Review cover of anti-Trump pundits. That means Trump's chances of winning just went up tenfold.
posted by delfin at 1:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's the ANGER that's the motivator for people like that. If you really consider Sanders and Trump interchangeable, you have the political insight of a walnut and you're simply flat-out pissed off at The Establishment. (Or whoever you've been told to be pissed off at.) That kind of millimeter-deep grar lends itself easily to grumping on message boards, but I'll be surprised if people get out and vote for people with diametrically opposed beliefs just because "it's someone different."
Meanwhile, goddamn it. Bill "Bag of Salted Dicks" Kristol is on that National Review cover of anti-Trump pundits. That means Trump's chances of winning just went up tenfold.
posted by delfin at 1:35 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
I honestly don't know what to make of "If not Trump, then Sanders!" though.
The only real thing they have in common (other than the general anti-establishment tone) is that they don't take corporate money. Of course, Trump's voters don't seem to have figured out that he literally is corporate money, but hey.
posted by dialetheia at 1:43 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The only real thing they have in common (other than the general anti-establishment tone) is that they don't take corporate money. Of course, Trump's voters don't seem to have figured out that he literally is corporate money, but hey.
posted by dialetheia at 1:43 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
even The New Republic!: National Review Fails to Kill Its Monster, Jeet Heer
Yet, despite some good polemics, “Against Trump” is a weak-tea effort. Too much time is spent trying to prove that Trump is not a real conservative, while ignoring the fact that the racist nationalism he is espousing has its origins on the right. Trump, the editors argue, is “a philosophically unmoored political opportunist who would trash the broad conservative ideological consensus within the GOP in favor of a free-floating populism with strong-man overtones.” There’s much that can be questioned here: After all, National Review didn’t have a problem with “free-floating populism” in 2008 when it celebrated Sarah Palin (now an enthusiastic Trump cheerleader), and historically the magazine has loved strongmen dictators like Mussolini and Franco.posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:44 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'll be surprised if people get out and vote for people with diametrically opposed beliefs just because "it's someone different."
I'm pretty skeptical, too. I mean, I'm sure there is some number of people who only VOTE ANGRY, so it's probably not strictly true to say that neither Clinton or Sanders (or any other possible Democratic candidate) will get the vote of anyone who's supporting Trump now, but it's probably true enough to make it a waste of effort to try to measure (or appeal to) that fraction of voters who are instinctively and solely "anti-establishment."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty skeptical, too. I mean, I'm sure there is some number of people who only VOTE ANGRY, so it's probably not strictly true to say that neither Clinton or Sanders (or any other possible Democratic candidate) will get the vote of anyone who's supporting Trump now, but it's probably true enough to make it a waste of effort to try to measure (or appeal to) that fraction of voters who are instinctively and solely "anti-establishment."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:55 PM on January 22, 2016 [2 favorites]
They're both populists of different sort. Were people not aware in 2008, when people were excitedly spreading wild and fantastical rumors that there was going to be a Ron Paul/Dennis Kucinich ticket? Or when Mike Gravel, a pretty leftist Democrat, went to run for the Libertarian nomination, of all third parties? Sometimes anti-establishmentarianism is an ethos of its own.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:25 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by Apocryphon at 2:25 PM on January 22, 2016
> Too much time is spent trying to prove that Trump is not a real conservative, while ignoring the fact that the racist nationalism he is espousing has its origins on the right.
Heer is just pointing out that the NR didn't do what would satisfy The New Republic. The National Review is completely comfortable with racist nationalism.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:45 PM on January 22, 2016
Heer is just pointing out that the NR didn't do what would satisfy The New Republic. The National Review is completely comfortable with racist nationalism.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:45 PM on January 22, 2016
Sometimes anti-establishmentarianism is an ethos of its own.
Oh I don't doubt that it's an ethos, the question is over how politically significant an ethos it is. (The fortunes of Mike Gravel and the Paul/Kucinich ticket should suggest an answer to that question.) If there's a large enough bloc of "Trump or Sanders" voters to swing an election, I'd like to see some numbers.
In other news, I only skimmed the Stross discussion linked upthread, but I chuckled at this comment:
Oh I don't doubt that it's an ethos, the question is over how politically significant an ethos it is. (The fortunes of Mike Gravel and the Paul/Kucinich ticket should suggest an answer to that question.) If there's a large enough bloc of "Trump or Sanders" voters to swing an election, I'd like to see some numbers.
In other news, I only skimmed the Stross discussion linked upthread, but I chuckled at this comment:
"One of the problems Trump and comrades will likely face is that they've woken the sheeple, saddled it up, and are trying to ride it to victory.posted by octobersurprise at 2:46 PM on January 22, 2016
The Sheeple, like any dragon, will put up with having a cheerleader on its back. The problems start when said cheerleader attempts to rein in the Sheeple and act like a boss rather than a passenger. I don't think that's going to work very well."
Rod Dreher: The Potemkin Village of Conservatism
John Podhoretz: Trump and Sanders: ‘Apocalypse Now’
there's another link buried in there, you find it:
There are many more pieces in the symposium, some of them making better points than others. The overall all sense I have in reading them, though, is one of futility. If I were Trump, I would be reading this and gloating over my breakfast toast. To be attacked by elites in the conservative pundit class only makes him more powerful. I understand that a magazine like NR can’t stay silent on this matter, but it’s an indication of how weak the conservative Establishment is that even their protest against Trump redounds to Trump’s benefit.inside, links to:
Why do you suppose that is? What does it tell us about Conservatism™?
First, I think it reveals that whatever movement conservatism and the GOP establishment once was, it no longer is.
John Podhoretz: Trump and Sanders: ‘Apocalypse Now’
So along come Trump and Sanders, and what do they say? They both say the system doesn’t work. Trump says it’s because losers are in charge and that the goal needs to be “winning.” Sanders says the system is rigged, billionaires run everything and must be stripped of their power (and money), and bankers must be sent to jail by the dozens if not hundreds. Note that the key to understanding these appeals is that they are really not all that partisan. Trump doesn’t say Obama is to blame, though he says Obama is a “disaster” — but then, so was Bush in his estimation. Sanders doesn’t really say the problem is recalcitrant Republicans but rather the behavior of a superclass of people who stand above politics and manipulate it like puppeteers manipulate marionettes.and also David Brooks: The Anxieties of Impotence
Their meta-message is this: The problems are bigger than the ideological choices of the guy in the White House or the sclerosis of the Senate. They are systemic — not politically systemic, but civilizationally systemic. Trump said in the last debate that he was content to be “a vessel for anger.” Sanders yells a lot in debate, thus signaling anger.
there's another link buried in there, you find it:
The man is brilliant. I mean that without the smallest trace of mockery. He’s figured out that the most effective way to get the wage class to rally to his banner is to get himself attacked, with the usual sort of shrill mockery, by the salary class. The man’s worth several billion dollars—do you really think he can’t afford to get the kind of hairstyle that the salary class finds acceptable? Of course he can; he’s deliberately chosen otherwise, because he knows that every time some privileged buffoon in the media or on the internet trots out another round of insults directed at his failure to conform to salary class ideas of fashion, another hundred thousand wage class voters recall the endless sneering putdowns they’ve experienced from the salary class and think, “Trump’s one of us.”posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:01 PM on January 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Dreher piece ends with a tweet from someone labeling the National Review the establishment. Meanwhile, Rich Lowry told the Washington Post that he doesn’t consider the National Review to be the establishment, and that’s why it had such a diverse group of conservatives providing content. There’s a lesson here about deciding that something as vague as the “establishment” is inherently evil; it seems like it de facto rejects the idea that the establishment could ever be somehow made “good” or at least trustworthy. It means that the republicans have been continuously trying to devour themselves in recent years, and it feels like it kind of also plays out for democrats. Alternately, it could just be that people only hate the establishment when it appears to be losing, and the right has been thriving for a long time by continuously maintaining a narrative of failure.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:15 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:15 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
AS ELECTION DAY drew closer, an undercurrent of anxiety and discontent swept the country. The public had lost faith in both political parties that were controlled by big business types who had lost touch with the common people, the professional political class, and lawyers who rigged the game. Meanwhile, mass immigration was choking urban centers with legions of poor, uneducated people who barely spoke the language and were of dubious religious and national allegiance. Rapid technological change was putting people out of jobs and degrading the nature of work for those who had them. Beneath the surface appearance of business as usual, a political upheaval was brewing that would obliterate one of the two major parties and leave the other as only a regional force for two generations.posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:26 PM on January 22, 2016 [13 favorites]
It was the fall of 1854.
"Beneath the surface appearance of business as usual, a political upheaval was brewing that would obliterate one of the two major parties and leave the other as only a regional force for two generations."
DEATH OF WHIGS PRESAGES RISE OF COMBOVER
posted by klangklangston at 4:24 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
DEATH OF WHIGS PRESAGES RISE OF COMBOVER
posted by klangklangston at 4:24 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
There’s a lesson here about deciding that something as vague as the “establishment” is inherently evil; it seems like it de facto rejects the idea that the establishment could ever be somehow made “good” or at least trustworthy. It means that the republicans have been continuously trying to devour themselves in recent years, and it feels like it kind of also plays out for democrats. Alternately, it could just be that people only hate the establishment when it appears to be losing, and the right has been thriving for a long time by continuously maintaining a narrative of failure.
Anyone with even a shred of political familiarity (I tried to use the word legitimacy, I really tried) that tries to assert an opinion about what's good or bad for the party seems to automatically become the establishment.
posted by Talez at 5:00 PM on January 22, 2016
Anyone with even a shred of political familiarity (I tried to use the word legitimacy, I really tried) that tries to assert an opinion about what's good or bad for the party seems to automatically become the establishment.
posted by Talez at 5:00 PM on January 22, 2016
dhens you are not a nice person. I cannot believe I was dumb enough to click on that thing.
bukvich, if you liked that, you'll love the EDM/Country remix.
posted by dhens at 5:22 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
bukvich, if you liked that, you'll love the EDM/Country remix.
posted by dhens at 5:22 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
the man of twists and turns, you have been posting some great links on the responses to this issue. Thanks!
posted by Drinky Die at 6:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 6:23 PM on January 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
I honestly don't know what to make of "If not Trump, then Sanders!" though. Except as pure LOL I HAZ DISRUPTED YR PREZDENCY trolling, maybe.
I say if not Sanders then Trump. I want someone not wholly owned by Goldman-Sachs.
posted by 445supermag at 6:43 PM on January 22, 2016
I say if not Sanders then Trump. I want someone not wholly owned by Goldman-Sachs.
posted by 445supermag at 6:43 PM on January 22, 2016
Watching the Palin endorsement was what it would be like if the fashion show from True Stories and Mein Kampf had a baby and the baby was raised by caregivers who were only allowed to speak in phrases from bumper stickers and email forwards.
posted by PMdixon at 6:48 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by PMdixon at 6:48 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
the man of twists and turns, you have been posting some great links on the responses to this issue. Thanks!
I was working on a big post about wtf is happening, and then NR decided on the anti-endorsement, and I had to GET ON IT.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:52 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
I was working on a big post about wtf is happening, and then NR decided on the anti-endorsement, and I had to GET ON IT.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:52 PM on January 22, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, we're 10 days from Iowa, 18 days from New Hampshire, 29 days from South Carolina, 32 days from Nevada, and 39 days from Super Tuesday. If I had to bet, I'd put money down on Cruz taking Iowa and Trump taking NH (+18.6), SC (+14.5), and NV (+12) putting Trump at 3 for 4 going into Super Tuesday. I suppose it's possible that a decisive win for Cruz in Iowa might be able to push the numbers in either SC or NV (or both) his way but then that would still leave no establishment candidate with any wins going into Super Tuesday. If it plays out like that, I don't know what any of the other candidates are planning to do.
Are we already in too little, too late territory?
posted by mhum at 7:12 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are we already in too little, too late territory?
posted by mhum at 7:12 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Potemkin Village link and the Archdruid Report link from it are good examples of what an intellectually honest conservative, realistic criticism of Trump can look like. National Review could never be that honestly self-critical.
Of course, the Archdruid Report link, though brilliant, falls completely flat on it's face by calling attention to the bipartisan exploitation of the working class without ever once using the word, "Unions."
This passage is very on point in some ways:
Notice also how many of Trump’s unacceptable-to-the-pundits comments have focused with laser precision on the issue of immigration. That’s a well-chosen opening wedge, as cutting off illegal immigration is something that the GOP has claimed to support for a while now. As Trump broadens his lead, in turn, he’s started to talk about the other side of the equation—the offshoring of jobs—as his recent jab at Apple’s overseas sweatshops shows. The mainstream media’s response to that jab does a fine job of proving the case argued above: “If smartphones were made in the US, we’d have to pay more for them!” And of course that’s true: the salary class will have to pay more for its toys if the wage class is going to have decent jobs that pay enough to support a family. That this is unthinkable for so many people in the salary class—that they’re perfectly happy allowing their electronics to be made for starvation wages in an assortment of overseas hellholes, so long as this keeps the price down—may help explain the boiling cauldron of resentment into which Trump is so efficiently tapping.
But when you ignore that the reason the working class is currently flailing around for a political representative to champion them is DIRECTLY a result of a deliberate, victorious conservative assault on organized labor it's much harder to credibly assert the liberal elites with their iPhones and Clinton with his NAFTA are equally at fault. Republicans, though not alone in their guilt, are by a large margin most responsible for the plight of the wage class.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
Of course, the Archdruid Report link, though brilliant, falls completely flat on it's face by calling attention to the bipartisan exploitation of the working class without ever once using the word, "Unions."
This passage is very on point in some ways:
Notice also how many of Trump’s unacceptable-to-the-pundits comments have focused with laser precision on the issue of immigration. That’s a well-chosen opening wedge, as cutting off illegal immigration is something that the GOP has claimed to support for a while now. As Trump broadens his lead, in turn, he’s started to talk about the other side of the equation—the offshoring of jobs—as his recent jab at Apple’s overseas sweatshops shows. The mainstream media’s response to that jab does a fine job of proving the case argued above: “If smartphones were made in the US, we’d have to pay more for them!” And of course that’s true: the salary class will have to pay more for its toys if the wage class is going to have decent jobs that pay enough to support a family. That this is unthinkable for so many people in the salary class—that they’re perfectly happy allowing their electronics to be made for starvation wages in an assortment of overseas hellholes, so long as this keeps the price down—may help explain the boiling cauldron of resentment into which Trump is so efficiently tapping.
But when you ignore that the reason the working class is currently flailing around for a political representative to champion them is DIRECTLY a result of a deliberate, victorious conservative assault on organized labor it's much harder to credibly assert the liberal elites with their iPhones and Clinton with his NAFTA are equally at fault. Republicans, though not alone in their guilt, are by a large margin most responsible for the plight of the wage class.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:20 PM on January 22, 2016 [7 favorites]
> Are we already in too little, too late territory?
That is hilariously, hysterically, terrifyingly plausible. Trump and Cruz. The mind reels.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:22 PM on January 22, 2016
That is hilariously, hysterically, terrifyingly plausible. Trump and Cruz. The mind reels.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:22 PM on January 22, 2016
A gem from NRO: On Donald Trump and Demagoguery, William F. Buckley (Cigar Aficionado, 2000)
What about the aspirant who has a private vision to offer to the public and has the means, personal or contrived, to finance a campaign? In some cases, the vision isn’t merely a program to be adopted. It is a program that includes the visionary’s serving as President. Look for the narcissist. The most obvious target in today’s lineup is, of course, Donald Trump. When he looks at a glass, he is mesmerized by its reflection. If Donald Trump were shaped a little differently, he would compete for Miss America.posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:27 PM on January 22, 2016 [6 favorites]
(Not to mention that Republicans are most responsible for our refusal to allow people in the wage class to make the entirely rational decision to shift into the welfare class when participation in the labor market has so clearly failed to provide for their needs. They work and work and work because we make them and they get nowhere. Yes, it makes them angry! That's what I call entirely justified anger.)
posted by Drinky Die at 7:28 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 7:28 PM on January 22, 2016
The Palin endorsement video was entertaining as hell for about thirty seconds but I had to close the window before she finished the word GREAAAAAAAT.
You missed the best slam poetry of this whole election cycle.
That's why we have Colbert.
posted by Rykey at 5:27 AM on January 23, 2016
Palin wasn’t “drunk” and her Trump speech wasn’t “stupid”: She’s playing right into the heart of twisted Republican politics
Palin understands what other Republicans are just beginning to get, which is that the conservative base is an audience that is post-argument. Conservatism of the 21st century is an ideology built on sand. Its arguments fall apart upon the briefest of examination and the supposed “evidence” for their beliefs are mostly lies and self-delusions. Sticking with the argument and evidence-based structure in the era of climate change denialism and creationism is a fool’s game and Palin knows it. Better instead to focus strictly on emotions and tribal identity, eschewing not just argument but even structuring your speeches to resemble arguments. Imagistic speeches that arouse passions while silencing doubts is not stupid, but brilliant.
posted by Artw at 6:58 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Palin understands what other Republicans are just beginning to get, which is that the conservative base is an audience that is post-argument. Conservatism of the 21st century is an ideology built on sand. Its arguments fall apart upon the briefest of examination and the supposed “evidence” for their beliefs are mostly lies and self-delusions. Sticking with the argument and evidence-based structure in the era of climate change denialism and creationism is a fool’s game and Palin knows it. Better instead to focus strictly on emotions and tribal identity, eschewing not just argument but even structuring your speeches to resemble arguments. Imagistic speeches that arouse passions while silencing doubts is not stupid, but brilliant.
posted by Artw at 6:58 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Ben Domenech: Barack Obama's political legacy: an America so tribal and divided that Trump can rise.
posted by octothorpe at 7:19 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 7:19 AM on January 23, 2016
C'mon, that's from The Federalist, which is more right-wing/libertarian garbage. They might as well claim that Obama caused this by being black because it caused a bunch of racists to decide that being openly racist was A-OK now that America had a black President.
Trump ain't Obama's legacy - he's the legacy of the National Review and The Federalist and Fox News and all their fellow travelers.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:11 AM on January 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Trump ain't Obama's legacy - he's the legacy of the National Review and The Federalist and Fox News and all their fellow travelers.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:11 AM on January 23, 2016 [11 favorites]
Sanders v. TRUMP v. Bloomberg?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:31 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 8:31 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, about that Amanda Marcotte post from Salon that Artw linked... Part of my problem with it is that Marcotte is working the same angle as fellow Salon writer (or maybe former Salon writer, I don't know, and she's permanently associated strongly with the site in my mind now anyway) Camille Paglia, who compared Palin's speaking style to free-form jazz; part of it is Salon's framing--contra to the article title, Marcotte sez, "Right now, the standard reaction, especially on the left, is to make fun of Palin, wondering if she’s an imbecile or merely just drunk. (She could be! Many innovative artists are, though.) " (Not usually when they're making their art, Amanda; in fact, showing up to a performance drunk and/or stoned is usually a sign that they're seriously ill and probably on an irreversible decline.)
Mostly, though, it's that it's a pretty anodyne observation that the base responds better to dogwhistling than to solid arguments, which is not only not exactly news, but also fails to take into account that you can only press a given button so many times. One of the best examples of this is Rudy Giuliani, someone whose accomplishments vastly eclipse Palin's, even if some of them (his record as prosecutor, for example) have been called into question; Palin was mayor of a town of a few thousand people and still felt the need to hire a city manager, while Giuliani was mayor of New York City, four of the five boroughs of which have higher individual populations than the entire state of Alaska. And yet, Giuliani is now pretty much a joke, and specifically the joke that Joe Biden made: "There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun, a verb and 9/11." That joke was fairly stale before Biden made it, but he got away with it because that button--which had previously worked well enough to neutralize any criticism of Giuliani's conduct regarding 9/11, as well as his numerous personal deficits--no longer got the desired reaction. Palin is notorious for reusing the same laugh lines and talking points ad infinitum; she made the same crack about Obama's community organizer job as she did in '08 at the RNC, ignoring that his experience and accomplishments as president far eclipse her own as an executive, and also went for the teleprompter line, even though she's been photographed with crib notes scrawled on her hand like an indifferent high school student who's sweating a pop quiz.
So why did Trump bring her in? Well, why not? If he paid her for it, it was probably far less that what she was able to bring in for a speech previously; by all accounts, her paying audience has declined greatly from what it was at her peak, and she may have even done it for free, for the exposure. And Trump by no means has a lock on Iowa, and she may have possibly gotten him a few voters. Or maybe he did it just to spit in the eye of Ted Cruz, who was elected partly with the help of Palin's endorsement, back when that meant something. And for Palin personally, who seems to truly believe that there is no such thing as bad publicity, it's probably a win/win within the very narrow limits of her career: if Trump should happen to win Iowa, she will claim part of the credit, and if he loses, she'll add to the store of resentments and petty grievances that are her true stock in trade.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:12 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mostly, though, it's that it's a pretty anodyne observation that the base responds better to dogwhistling than to solid arguments, which is not only not exactly news, but also fails to take into account that you can only press a given button so many times. One of the best examples of this is Rudy Giuliani, someone whose accomplishments vastly eclipse Palin's, even if some of them (his record as prosecutor, for example) have been called into question; Palin was mayor of a town of a few thousand people and still felt the need to hire a city manager, while Giuliani was mayor of New York City, four of the five boroughs of which have higher individual populations than the entire state of Alaska. And yet, Giuliani is now pretty much a joke, and specifically the joke that Joe Biden made: "There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun, a verb and 9/11." That joke was fairly stale before Biden made it, but he got away with it because that button--which had previously worked well enough to neutralize any criticism of Giuliani's conduct regarding 9/11, as well as his numerous personal deficits--no longer got the desired reaction. Palin is notorious for reusing the same laugh lines and talking points ad infinitum; she made the same crack about Obama's community organizer job as she did in '08 at the RNC, ignoring that his experience and accomplishments as president far eclipse her own as an executive, and also went for the teleprompter line, even though she's been photographed with crib notes scrawled on her hand like an indifferent high school student who's sweating a pop quiz.
So why did Trump bring her in? Well, why not? If he paid her for it, it was probably far less that what she was able to bring in for a speech previously; by all accounts, her paying audience has declined greatly from what it was at her peak, and she may have even done it for free, for the exposure. And Trump by no means has a lock on Iowa, and she may have possibly gotten him a few voters. Or maybe he did it just to spit in the eye of Ted Cruz, who was elected partly with the help of Palin's endorsement, back when that meant something. And for Palin personally, who seems to truly believe that there is no such thing as bad publicity, it's probably a win/win within the very narrow limits of her career: if Trump should happen to win Iowa, she will claim part of the credit, and if he loses, she'll add to the store of resentments and petty grievances that are her true stock in trade.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:12 AM on January 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, yeah, I wouldn't give much weight to whatever serial plagiarist Ben Domenech has to say.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:17 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:17 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was going to add a snide remark to that quote but I though that everyone knew how stupid Domenech was and no one would think that I was agreeing with him.
posted by octothorpe at 9:52 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 9:52 AM on January 23, 2016
Shit, sorry if it sounded like I was snapping at you - I try not to let too much info about the members of the right wing noise machine stick in my head (I've only got so much memory left) so I'd forgotten who he was until I Googled.
posted by soundguy99 at 10:09 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by soundguy99 at 10:09 AM on January 23, 2016
FWIW I don't actually believe that Palin is not stupid.
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:24 AM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Bloomberg... sigh. Not nearly enough support to contend, more than enough to hurt Sanders in the primaries and Clinton in the general. Thanks, Bloomie!
posted by tonycpsu at 10:41 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by tonycpsu at 10:41 AM on January 23, 2016
Most of America outside of NYC and some deans at Johns Hopkins know only enough about Bloomberg to associate him with attempts to outlaw soda and guns, two of our favorite consumer products. His presidential aspirations are noble but are probably unlikely to do much but help get Trump elected in the general election.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:30 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 11:30 AM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The voters don't have to be pulling for Bloomberg, just against the alternatives. Democrats aren't going to be competitive in most states where Bloomberg's negatives will hurt him significantly, and it's not like he needs 5% to swing a purple state -- 1-2% will do it.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:34 AM on January 23, 2016
posted by tonycpsu at 11:34 AM on January 23, 2016
So why did Trump bring her in?
First reason, Sarah Palin is yuuge in Iowa.
Second reason, Donald Trump actually looks presidential on a stage next to her.
posted by sour cream at 11:59 AM on January 23, 2016
First reason, Sarah Palin is yuuge in Iowa.
Second reason, Donald Trump actually looks presidential on a stage next to her.
posted by sour cream at 11:59 AM on January 23, 2016
Trump: I could "shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?" he said, referring to the major street in New York City that cuts through Manhattan's large commercial district. "It's, like, incredible."posted by zakur at 1:18 PM on January 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's probably right, given his likely voters.
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 1:20 PM on January 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump: I could "shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters"
I honestly thought that link would go to the Onion.
But still... Trump sounds almost desperate here. It's almost as if he's trying to figure out what he has to say or do in order to get out of all this:
„OK, let’s go over it again. Is there anyone I haven’t insulted yet? We did Mexicans, muslims, women, the disabled... Do you know how much it cost me to have that black guy beat up at that rally? Just trying to find a black guy willing to go through with this. What about the French?”
“Sir, that might give you another significant boost in the polls. Everybody hates the French.”
“Europeans in general?”
“No significant effect according to our focus groups. And you already did Merkel.”
“Dammit. I never should have taken that call from Bill. I just wanted to do him a favor. I like that guy, you know? We’re both cut from the same wood, OK? We’re both ladies’ men, if you know what I mean.”
“Sir, if I may make a suggestion?”
“What?”
“How about the Jews? It seems that you haven’t made any disparaging statements about Jews yet. Of course, you have to make it sound like a conspiracy theory that is so deranged that …”
“Nah, can’t do that. Ivanka would never forgive me. I wanna spend Christmas with my grandchildren, OK? But how about I do one of those mass shootings you hear about every day? That has GOT to get me off the hook. I’ll just got to Wall Street and shoot a couple of those fuckers. Never liked them much anyway. And it would send a nice fuck you to that asshole Bloomberg, OK?”
“Sir, I don’t think that this is a good idea. There are many cops with guns down there and you might get hurt.”
“At least then all this would be over! But maybe you’re right. What if I SAID I’d like to go shoot some Wall Street suits without actually doing it?”
“Everybody wants to do that. It’ll just get you another boost in the polls.”
“Broadway?”
“The liberal cesspool of arts and culture? – Your supporters will cheer you on.”
“OK, how about 5th Avenue.”
“… That might just work, Sir.”
"Well then get the writers on it to work out the best line, OK?"
posted by sour cream at 7:41 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I honestly thought that link would go to the Onion.
But still... Trump sounds almost desperate here. It's almost as if he's trying to figure out what he has to say or do in order to get out of all this:
„OK, let’s go over it again. Is there anyone I haven’t insulted yet? We did Mexicans, muslims, women, the disabled... Do you know how much it cost me to have that black guy beat up at that rally? Just trying to find a black guy willing to go through with this. What about the French?”
“Sir, that might give you another significant boost in the polls. Everybody hates the French.”
“Europeans in general?”
“No significant effect according to our focus groups. And you already did Merkel.”
“Dammit. I never should have taken that call from Bill. I just wanted to do him a favor. I like that guy, you know? We’re both cut from the same wood, OK? We’re both ladies’ men, if you know what I mean.”
“Sir, if I may make a suggestion?”
“What?”
“How about the Jews? It seems that you haven’t made any disparaging statements about Jews yet. Of course, you have to make it sound like a conspiracy theory that is so deranged that …”
“Nah, can’t do that. Ivanka would never forgive me. I wanna spend Christmas with my grandchildren, OK? But how about I do one of those mass shootings you hear about every day? That has GOT to get me off the hook. I’ll just got to Wall Street and shoot a couple of those fuckers. Never liked them much anyway. And it would send a nice fuck you to that asshole Bloomberg, OK?”
“Sir, I don’t think that this is a good idea. There are many cops with guns down there and you might get hurt.”
“At least then all this would be over! But maybe you’re right. What if I SAID I’d like to go shoot some Wall Street suits without actually doing it?”
“Everybody wants to do that. It’ll just get you another boost in the polls.”
“Broadway?”
“The liberal cesspool of arts and culture? – Your supporters will cheer you on.”
“OK, how about 5th Avenue.”
“… That might just work, Sir.”
"Well then get the writers on it to work out the best line, OK?"
posted by sour cream at 7:41 AM on January 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
But still... Trump sounds almost desperate here. It's almost as if he's trying to figure out what he has to say or do in order to get out of all this:
I've made a yuuuuuuuge mistake.
I'm actually clinging to the hope that this turned out to be a runaway train that will simultaneously implode and explode all over the GOP.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:30 AM on January 24, 2016
I've made a yuuuuuuuge mistake.
I'm actually clinging to the hope that this turned out to be a runaway train that will simultaneously implode and explode all over the GOP.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:30 AM on January 24, 2016
Meet the ‘Fire-Eaters,’ the Real Antecedents of Donald Trump
Tracing political legacies is hard.
NYT: For Republicans, Mounting Fears Of A Lasting Split in A Primary That Disqualified The Qualified
leading to
Why one political scientist thinks Donald Trump might actually win
meanwhile:
Debates widen the agenda gap - "Democrats and Republicans don't just have different positions. They have different issues."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:58 AM on January 25, 2016
Tracing political legacies is hard.
NYT: For Republicans, Mounting Fears Of A Lasting Split in A Primary That Disqualified The Qualified
leading to
Why one political scientist thinks Donald Trump might actually win
meanwhile:
Debates widen the agenda gap - "Democrats and Republicans don't just have different positions. They have different issues."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:58 AM on January 25, 2016
The genie grown monstrous: How Donald Trump, the all-American Frankenstein, devoured the GOP
Still, he is more than that. He is the leading candidate to become the nominee for president of one of the country’s two main political parties. That brute fact sets him apart. From its earliest days, the nation has witnessed its fair share of demagogues, some from the left, some from the right, even some from an elusive zone that overlaps left and right, but is neither. Some have aspired to high office, others have even managed to get there (Huey Long and Joseph McCarthy, for example). But none of them – except one – shared Trump’s profile. None of them – except one – rested their claim to political preeminence on their previous careers as titans of industry and finance. None of them – except one – threatened to breach the borders of conventional political protocols and established hierarchies to seek approval instead from the streets.posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:53 AM on January 25, 2016
William Randolph Hearst is that exception.
I loaded 538 and found old Nate Silver crawfishing to beat the band:
One Big Reason To Be Less Skeptical Of Trump
By Nate Silver
Although he did update his six stages of doom article on the 27 of December and said he still has large obstacles he is not likely to overcome. Please Mr. Silver be right.
posted by bukvich at 1:08 PM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
One Big Reason To Be Less Skeptical Of Trump
By Nate Silver
Although he did update his six stages of doom article on the 27 of December and said he still has large obstacles he is not likely to overcome. Please Mr. Silver be right.
posted by bukvich at 1:08 PM on January 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Alone in his never-finished, already decaying pleasure palace, aloof, seldom visited, never photographed, an emperor of new strength continued to direct his failing empire, varyingly attempted to sway as he once did the destinies of a nation that had ceased to listen to him, ceased to trust him. Then last week, as it must to all men, death came to Donald John Trump.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:12 PM on January 25, 2016
posted by Chrysostom at 2:12 PM on January 25, 2016
mhum: "Trump at 3 for 4 going into Super Tuesday"
Following up on this, I decided to look into the recent history of Republican primaries to see how indicative those early states were to later success. One thing that I completely missed is that this is the only year in recent memory (at least since 1996) where there have been this few states (only 4) before the Republicans' Super Tuesday; normally, it's been more like 8 to 13 states. I think this can only mean that the pre-Super Tuesday momentum is even more important, but that's just speculation on my part.
Anyways, here's what I got for early primary state winners (eventual nominees marked with asterisk):
2012: Romney* - 8, Santorum - 4, Gingrich - 1
2008: Romney - 4, McCain* - 3, Huckabee - 1
2000: Bush* - 7, McCain - 3
1996: Dole* - 5, Buchanan - 1, Forbes - 2
I'll also note that although McCain only won 3 states to Romney's 4 in 2008, one of those states was Florida, whose 57 delegates put him ahead of Romney in delegate count, 95 to 83, going into Super Tuesday.
posted by mhum at 6:23 PM on January 25, 2016
Following up on this, I decided to look into the recent history of Republican primaries to see how indicative those early states were to later success. One thing that I completely missed is that this is the only year in recent memory (at least since 1996) where there have been this few states (only 4) before the Republicans' Super Tuesday; normally, it's been more like 8 to 13 states. I think this can only mean that the pre-Super Tuesday momentum is even more important, but that's just speculation on my part.
Anyways, here's what I got for early primary state winners (eventual nominees marked with asterisk):
2012: Romney* - 8, Santorum - 4, Gingrich - 1
2008: Romney - 4, McCain* - 3, Huckabee - 1
2000: Bush* - 7, McCain - 3
1996: Dole* - 5, Buchanan - 1, Forbes - 2
I'll also note that although McCain only won 3 states to Romney's 4 in 2008, one of those states was Florida, whose 57 delegates put him ahead of Romney in delegate count, 95 to 83, going into Super Tuesday.
posted by mhum at 6:23 PM on January 25, 2016
(Am I missing the party in a different thread?)
Donald Trump, in Feud With Fox News, Shuns Debate
Donald J. Trump and Fox News, the candidate who has reordered the Republican presidential race and the cable network of choice for many of the party’s voters, stared each other down on Tuesday over his demand that the news anchor Megyn Kelly be dumped from moderating Thursday’s debate, the last before Monday’s [Iowa] caucuses.
The network did not blink. So Mr. Trump walked.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:42 PM on January 27, 2016
Donald Trump, in Feud With Fox News, Shuns Debate
Donald J. Trump and Fox News, the candidate who has reordered the Republican presidential race and the cable network of choice for many of the party’s voters, stared each other down on Tuesday over his demand that the news anchor Megyn Kelly be dumped from moderating Thursday’s debate, the last before Monday’s [Iowa] caucuses.
The network did not blink. So Mr. Trump walked.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:42 PM on January 27, 2016
Fox News accuses Trump campaign of threatening Megyn Kelly
In a call on Saturday with a Fox News executive, [Corey Lewandowski] stated that Megyn had a ‘rough couple of days after that last debate’ and he ‘would hate to have her go through that again,’ the Fox News statement said.posted by octobersurprise at 1:27 PM on January 27, 2016
Lewandowski was warned not to level any more threats, but he continued to do so. We can’t give in to terrorizations toward any of our employees.
Julia Azari at 538: “Donald Trump’s Fox News Feud May Be Another Sign The GOP Is Failing”
posted by Going To Maine at 2:11 PM on January 27, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 2:11 PM on January 27, 2016
I've been hating on Trump since Spy told me I should, but I was surprised when he came out with all the Birther stuff because it just didn't seem like his MO. Was it his plan all along to start moving his image away from Godless New Yorker towards God-fearing Moron ahead of the 2016 election?
posted by Room 641-A at 2:58 PM on January 27, 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 2:58 PM on January 27, 2016
Republicans point fingers: Who let Trump get this far?
Donald Trump’s Campaign Says He’ll Skip Debate.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:16 PM on January 27, 2016
Donald Trump’s Campaign Says He’ll Skip Debate.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:16 PM on January 27, 2016
I think the reason we have Trump is we lost Jon Stewart. I think he was the last thing keeping politics sane. Atlas shrugged. Everything just keeps getting weirder now.
Bill O'Reilly is trying to talk to Trump the way Stewart used to talk to O'Reilly. (1) (2)
posted by Drinky Die at 12:40 AM on January 28, 2016
Bill O'Reilly is trying to talk to Trump the way Stewart used to talk to O'Reilly. (1) (2)
posted by Drinky Die at 12:40 AM on January 28, 2016
We can’t give in to terrorizations toward any of our employees.
Mark this day in your calendar, folks. FOX News almost came this close to using the actual word "terrorist" to describe the behavior of a right-wing American.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:25 AM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mark this day in your calendar, folks. FOX News almost came this close to using the actual word "terrorist" to describe the behavior of a right-wing American.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:25 AM on January 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
In a call on Saturday with a Fox News executive, [Corey Lewandowski] stated that Megyn had a ‘rough couple of days after that last debate’ and he ‘would hate to have her go through that again,’ the Fox News statement said.
"That's a really nice news anchor you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to her..."
posted by sour cream at 2:16 AM on January 28, 2016
"That's a really nice news anchor you have there. It would be a shame if something happened to her..."
posted by sour cream at 2:16 AM on January 28, 2016
[dumpsterfire.gif]
posted by Theta States at 8:17 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Theta States at 8:17 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
What do GOP voters want?
Certainly, there were voters turned off by the polemical style of the more extreme candidates. And 48 percent were still undecided as of late January. But their leanings, which crisscrossed ideological positions, seemed to confirm the conventional wisdom that the GOP-primary voter is more motivated by mood than by policy. “Donald Trump has the best tagline of all, ‘Make America great again,’ ” said Rubio backer Russell Fuhrman of Dubuque, Iowa. “The country just seems to be in a severe decline. Insecurity’s so high; pessimism and political correctness are running rampant. It’s sad.”posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:47 AM on January 28, 2016
Donald Trump has the best tagline of all ...
Occasionally I think that democracy is overrated.
posted by octothorpe at 10:18 AM on January 28, 2016
Occasionally I think that democracy is overrated.
posted by octothorpe at 10:18 AM on January 28, 2016
I want a candidate with a slogan like “Inch by inch, America will be.” But I’m pretty sure that would inspire no one.
I’d also like a candidate with the slogan “E Pluribus Unum!”, but that seems unlikely to fly either.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:24 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I’d also like a candidate with the slogan “E Pluribus Unum!”, but that seems unlikely to fly either.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:24 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump should have gone with Everyone Is Stupid Except Me.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:21 AM on January 28, 2016
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:21 AM on January 28, 2016
Matt Walsh at the Blaze joins in:
"But there is no accountability. We all say we want accountability, but what we really mean is we want everyone else to be accountable. Very few people will actually hold themselves accountable for anything. Our Republic crumbles while we all sit around pretending we’re victims of a culture we’re actively creating and politicians we actively vote into office. We put torches to our own home and wonder why it’s on fire.posted by corb at 11:28 AM on January 28, 2016
And then, surveying the destruction we wrought upon ourselves, we weep like damsels in distress, crying out for a white knight to save us. Inevitably, a charlatan in a suit of armor comes along and promises to do just that. We faint and fall into his arms, and he proceeds to immediately betray us. Then we weep again for another white knight to save us from the last one, and another comes along, and he betrays us, and we weep again, and another one comes, and so on and so on and so on and so on unto infinity."
So, here's a question that has formed in my mind - for a while, it was thought that Trump would go run as an independent if the Republican nomination wasn't possible. Is the reverse now a possibility: If Trump gets the nomination, will someone else make a run as an independent?
posted by nubs at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2016
posted by nubs at 11:42 AM on January 28, 2016
If Trump gets the nomination, will someone else make a run as an independent?
Mike Bloomberg is starting to talk about doing precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:46 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mike Bloomberg is starting to talk about doing precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:46 AM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Much as, as a New Yorker, I despise Bloombito with every fiber of my soul, I have to say that I think he might peel people reluctantly voting for Clinton off as well. He has a real shot at appealing to both sides.
posted by corb at 11:49 AM on January 28, 2016
posted by corb at 11:49 AM on January 28, 2016
El Bloombito is back!
How the Republican establishment learned to shirk responsibility
You know, 'right' and 'left' used to mean 'supportive of the current order' and 'opposed to the current order', it may be useful to see how right-aligned conservatism turned into a revolutionary movement after conservative ideas fell out of favor.
Trump as Republican Apocalypse. Dreher here means 'unveiling,' and I agree. There's nothing new about the MARsians. This is the party's base.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
How the Republican establishment learned to shirk responsibility
No longer the sole outlet for argument and analysis on the right, NR was now joined by Commentary, The Public Interest, The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, and The American Spectator. Right-leaning think tanks (The American Enterprise Institute, The Heritage Foundation) became more stridently ideological. Later on, a range of media outlets were captured or founded to serve as an alternative source of information for the silent conservative majority: talk radio, Fox News, blogs, and websites.Rush Limbaugh Doesn't Know He's Part of the Establishment
This counter-establishment tasted power for the first time with the inauguration of Ronald Reagan 35 years ago, and since then it has grown massively in strength and influence. Today the counter-establishment simply is the conservative and Republican establishment.
You know, 'right' and 'left' used to mean 'supportive of the current order' and 'opposed to the current order', it may be useful to see how right-aligned conservatism turned into a revolutionary movement after conservative ideas fell out of favor.
Trump as Republican Apocalypse. Dreher here means 'unveiling,' and I agree. There's nothing new about the MARsians. This is the party's base.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
It was my understanding Bloomberg is only running if Bernie Sanders is nominated so if Clinton runs he won't be peeling off her voters.
posted by Green With You at 12:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Green With You at 12:10 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
City Journal: Coarsener-in-Chief
Trump’s dominance is also a reminder of the conservative policy world’s limited relevance. Last year, a group of young “reform conservatives” crafted wonky proposals involving arcane tax credits and the like in the name of winning a broader, middle-class base of Republican voters. None of it matters, it turns out, compared with the attraction of someone bellowing that America is going to be great and is going to win again, as guaranteed by the fact that the speaker himself is great and a big, big winner.posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:24 PM on January 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
While the Republican establishment deserves its comeuppance, the fallout to the country at large of a Trump presidency would likely be as dire as his critics predict.
"Ben Domenech: Barack Obama's political legacy: an America so tribal and divided that Trump can rise."
Ben Domenech: Abraham Lincoln's political legacy: an America so tribal and divided that Nathan Bedford Forrest must defend it.
posted by klangklangston at 5:07 PM on January 28, 2016
Ben Domenech: Abraham Lincoln's political legacy: an America so tribal and divided that Nathan Bedford Forrest must defend it.
posted by klangklangston at 5:07 PM on January 28, 2016
What a shame Marion Berry's dead. He'd be just the veep Trump needs.
He was an incredibly flawed man but this borders on being a hateful thing to say about Marion Barry. Trump is the son of a klansman and spouts hate in pursuit of an ego job. Barry was a politically active supporter of civil rights as early as a teen, risking his employment over segregation. He was a hot mess with tons of flaws but he did things for others pretty much all his life. I would take four terms of a Barry presidency over 1 year of Trump in charge.
posted by phearlez at 7:49 AM on January 29, 2016
He was an incredibly flawed man but this borders on being a hateful thing to say about Marion Barry. Trump is the son of a klansman and spouts hate in pursuit of an ego job. Barry was a politically active supporter of civil rights as early as a teen, risking his employment over segregation. He was a hot mess with tons of flaws but he did things for others pretty much all his life. I would take four terms of a Barry presidency over 1 year of Trump in charge.
posted by phearlez at 7:49 AM on January 29, 2016
WSJ: How Trump Happened - compared to 'establishment' voters, Trump voters have less wealth, less income, less education, are more worried about economic competition from overseas and immigrants, oppose foreign intervention, concerned about gay marriage and gun control, not religious, and want a strong leader with a bold vision.
Reason: Donald Trump Is the Harbinger of the Republican Party Apocalypse
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:49 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reason: Donald Trump Is the Harbinger of the Republican Party Apocalypse
Trump’s candidacy exists almost entirely outside the traditional support structure for successful Republican candidates. His campaign, for example, is run by a small staff of loyalists with little traditional national campaign experience and funded without the backing of the GOP donor class. He appears to have only one issue adviser, a former trade and immigration staffer for Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, who only came on board last week. As Dan Drezner notes, despite months of promises to bring foreign policy advisers on board, Trump has yet to do so; instead, he has suggested that he is receiving counsel from people who, when asked, say they’ve never spoken to the candidate.538: Party elites haven’t been doing much to stop Trump
Trump is essentially running his own party now, housed within a hollowed-out GOP brand. In less than a year, he has all but taken over.
...
At the same time, the success of Trump’s particular campaign has revealed the deep strains of nativism—shading into outright racism—that runs through segments of the American right, and its friendliness toward authoritarian politics.
Moreover, Trump is not the sort of candidate to whom you’d expect the party to extend the benefit of the doubt. Under “The Party Decides,” parties are supposed to prefer candidates who are acceptable to as much of the coalition as possible to those who are polarizing. Trump generates considerable enthusiasm among some Republican groups but strong opposition among others. Party elites tend to prefer candidates who have worked their way up through the system and developed a network of relationships within the party. Trump, a relative newcomer to Republican Party politics, worked around the system instead.Trump as John the Baptist to Candidate 20XX's true revolutionary.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:49 AM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Who Votes For Donald Trump?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:41 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
The economic and social stress for this part of America is real. The fact that these people have had their livelihoods and social status reduced because of the process of globalization is real. And yes, their animus toward foreign competition and immigrants is real too. Their problems should still be addressed, not because the elite views them as virtuous and thus deserving of the help of the state and its political class, but by virtue of our common citizenship. Many of the policy entrepreneurs and political grifters in D.C., when they go back home for a holiday, have members of their families who are also sliding down from the middle class into Fishtown.This group is literally dying out and perceives an existential threat?
Even the left could find a way to justify this to themselves. For some thoroughgoing socialists, the social sins of racism, patriarchy, and classism can be seen as the epiphenomena of capitalism. The capitalist world has to justify the unequal distribution of goods, opportunity, and dignity, and so it generates these ideologies of domination and exclusion. It's no surprise, comrades, that this false consciousness would penetrate even the proletariat itself. In fact, it may be inaccurate to even classify them as the working class. For many it is more accurate to say that they are a wage-when-possible, disability-otherwise class.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:41 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
That Reason piece says that 538 is giving Trump a 55 percent chance of winning the primary. That is, uh, not what 538 seems to be saying anywhere. Iowa, certainly, but not the nomination as a whole.
posted by Going To Maine at 3:28 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 3:28 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I go to 538 whenever I want to hold myself and tell myself it won't be that bad.
posted by corb at 4:21 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 4:21 PM on January 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
Rod Dreher, The American Conservative: Trump Plucked The Populist Apple
What Trump has shown, and is showing every day, is how out of touch Conservatism, Inc., is with the people for whom it purports to speak. They haven’t had a chance to vote for someone like him in a long, long time because, as I’ve said, the GOP and Conservatism, Inc., gatekeepers kept them down. The conservative Christians who have gone to Washington and gotten invited to be in the inner Republican power circles? You think those professional Christians really speak for the people back home anymore?posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:43 PM on January 29, 2016
Every day, my mood remains Dreherfreude.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:28 PM on January 29, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 6:28 PM on January 29, 2016
Ann Setzer’s final Iowa prediction (of this primary) has arrived:
posted by Going To Maine at 4:27 PM on January 30, 2016The final Des Moines Register poll was just released, showing Donald Trump leading the Republican field in Iowa with 28 percent, Ted Cruz with 23 percent and Marco Rubio with 15 percent. Hillary Clinton was ahead of Bernie Sanders, 45 percent to 42 percent, on the Democratic side.
(Bear in mind that primary delegates will be allocated proportionately to share of the caucus, not winner-take-all.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:29 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:29 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
(And that’s Selzer, not Setzer. Ann Selzer.)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 4:36 PM on January 30, 2016
Donald Trump’s Strongest Supporters: A Certain Kind of Democrat
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:21 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:21 PM on January 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
This will make social conservatives happy: Trump Attacks Supreme Court Decision On Marriage Equality
posted by homunculus at 10:11 AM on January 31, 2016
posted by homunculus at 10:11 AM on January 31, 2016
Also Democrats.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:40 AM on January 31, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 10:40 AM on January 31, 2016
NYT: Donald Trump Field Organizer Accuses Campaign of Sex Discrimination
posted by Room 641-A at 8:10 PM on January 31, 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 8:10 PM on January 31, 2016
corb: "I go to 538 whenever I want to hold myself and tell myself it won't be that bad."
About that....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:41 AM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
About that....
posted by Chrysostom at 8:41 AM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nooooooooooooooooooo.
If Trump wins the nomination, I'm going back to my military roots and staying drunk for the next year.
posted by corb at 8:53 AM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
If Trump wins the nomination, I'm going back to my military roots and staying drunk for the next year.
posted by corb at 8:53 AM on February 1, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Eight Causes Of Trumpism - Trump as symptom.
How to understand Trump’s appeal to resentful whites
I have an idea about this, but I don't know enough yet.
Something something neoliberal, something something enclosure, something something extraction.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:01 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
How to understand Trump’s appeal to resentful whites
I have an idea about this, but I don't know enough yet.
Something something neoliberal, something something enclosure, something something extraction.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:01 AM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Eight Causes Of Trumpism - Trump as symptom.
How to understand Trump’s appeal to resentful whites
I have an idea about this, but I don't know enough yet.
A few years back, when Occupy was hot, I read Robert Reich’s book on the crash. In the introduction, he posited a potential future nadir for the country: a hypothetical candidate who would run as a third party on the extreme ends of both the Democrats and Republicans -I believe his hypothetical candidate was a woman, left on social issues, anti-free trade, anti-immigrant, pro-gold standard, and isolationist in foreign policy- and win. Her administration would be fraught and horrible for the country.
I see Donald Trump, and his ability to find a new constituency in folks who are feeling neglected as a sign of this. I’m disturbed at the idea of who Trump 2.0 will turn out to be.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:18 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
How to understand Trump’s appeal to resentful whites
I have an idea about this, but I don't know enough yet.
A few years back, when Occupy was hot, I read Robert Reich’s book on the crash. In the introduction, he posited a potential future nadir for the country: a hypothetical candidate who would run as a third party on the extreme ends of both the Democrats and Republicans -I believe his hypothetical candidate was a woman, left on social issues, anti-free trade, anti-immigrant, pro-gold standard, and isolationist in foreign policy- and win. Her administration would be fraught and horrible for the country.
I see Donald Trump, and his ability to find a new constituency in folks who are feeling neglected as a sign of this. I’m disturbed at the idea of who Trump 2.0 will turn out to be.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:18 AM on February 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Trump claims Cruz "stole" Iowa caucus - demands do-over
posted by zakur at 11:11 AM on February 3, 2016
posted by zakur at 11:11 AM on February 3, 2016
I saw the Trump tweets & such this morning, and my reaction was:
-He's shocked! shocked! to find underhanded tactics & misinformation going on here!
-May this be the salvo that opens a war between the two that ends both.
posted by nubs at 11:59 AM on February 3, 2016
-He's shocked! shocked! to find underhanded tactics & misinformation going on here!
-May this be the salvo that opens a war between the two that ends both.
posted by nubs at 11:59 AM on February 3, 2016
@UnsureTrump is a version of Donald Trump that uses question marks instead of exclamation points.
posted by Going To Maine at 12:06 PM on February 3, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 12:06 PM on February 3, 2016
I'm in love with the chaos caused by the alright people claiming conspiracy. Especially since they're saying Microsoft ran the voting software, and donated to Rubio, ergo Rubio got a fraudulent... 3rd place win?
Yeah.
posted by Theta States at 5:01 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah.
posted by Theta States at 5:01 PM on February 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Long ago — a quarter century ago — when Trump was already making noises about wanting to be president, some filmmakers set out to discover what the man was made of. They learned a lot — an astonishing amount. And they made a documentary. Trump, always aggressive, threatened to sue, and the film never saw the light of day.
(That is the Russ Baker who what why website. If you want to go direct to youtube you can begin here. If you do not have time to watch it is mostly about dishonest business practices and political corruption.)
posted by bukvich at 7:15 AM on February 4, 2016
(That is the Russ Baker who what why website. If you want to go direct to youtube you can begin here. If you do not have time to watch it is mostly about dishonest business practices and political corruption.)
posted by bukvich at 7:15 AM on February 4, 2016
Trump’s Neofascism Isn’t Going Away, Even if Trump Does
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:24 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
What is worrisome about Trump is two things. First, what should be clear about politics is that the public desperately wants a full employment economy. Trump is promising that. And second, Trump is building institutional links with at least one natural conservative force that hasn’t until recently been considered particularly political: the police."As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY"
This is an armed working class unionized pro-government demographic that is not especially fond of plutocrats and has no problem with the government taking responsibility for both full employment and, well, for social order.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:24 AM on February 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Donald Trump Is Running as a Conservative Republican
One of the fundamental ideas at the heart of modern conservative rhetoric has been the delegitimization of both government as an institution and those elected officials and “bureaucrats” entrusted with governing. This is what Trump did in Des Moines and what he has been doing since the summer. Trump describes the US as a failed state, but so does every other Republican candidate, who also share his views that government is incompetent (Obamacare), that its leaders are derelict (Iran deal), and that they are spendthrifts who prioritize the wrong things (a budget that fund things that “all of us in the room don’t want to see it fund.”). Many commentators have assumed that his views on government are substantially different from the other Republican candidates for the presidency. But there is very little evidence to support this view; all of the other GOP candidates have offered variations on the themes of decline and incompetent government.posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:40 AM on February 4, 2016
According to our latest polls-plus forecast, Donald Trump has a 64% chance of winning the New Hampshire primary.
aye aye aye aye aye aye aye
(In my notebooks I write this as aye * 7 and it is the highest mark on my aye scale.)
posted by bukvich at 8:32 AM on February 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
aye aye aye aye aye aye aye
(In my notebooks I write this as aye * 7 and it is the highest mark on my aye scale.)
posted by bukvich at 8:32 AM on February 6, 2016 [2 favorites]
ROXANNE
posted by Going To Maine at 9:54 AM on February 6, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 9:54 AM on February 6, 2016
Chait:
The Republican Party has faced a collective-action problem: A consolidation of the Establishment candidates is in all of their interests, but it is in the interest of every individual candidate (and their supporters) to stay in the race. A famous essay called “The Tragedy of the Commons” once explored the nature of a collective-action problem, using the metaphor of a common meadow where farmers bring their cattle to graze, each one letting its cows eat more until all of the grass had disappeared. Republicans by their nature have difficulty grasping collective-action problems, which form the philosophical basis for much government action. If they fail, it will be because they placed too much faith in the invisible hand to sort it out.posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:55 AM on February 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Trump’s Unspeakable Strategy to Erase His Past - "Why Donald Trump's anti-immigration rhetoric was enough for movement conservatives to forgive his history of liberalism."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:31 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
One of the great puzzles of the primary season is why a candidate who so recently espoused moderate or progressive views is succeeding in a party that favors purity over pragmatism. Of course, Trump can always claim that he had a road-to-Damascus-style conversion to conservatism. But this claim surely won’t cut it for many movement conservatives. After all, if Trump can flip to the right so recently, perhaps he’ll flop back to the left in due course.Donald Trump represents the end of the end of history
For Trump, the solution has been to announce something so outrageously offensive to liberals, so contrary to every progressive shibboleth, that its utterance immediately disqualifies him from being a leftist.
But that's not true anymore, at least not for blue-collar workers. More and more people feel like they're falling further and further behind even during the "good times." They're mad as hell, and they're not going to take it anymore, which is just another way of saying that they're looking for scapegoats. And that's why even if Trump isn't long for the political stage—although who wants to bet on that after his New Hampshire win?—Trumpism is. The only question is whether it will completely capture the Republican Party or remain a quadrennial curiosity, you know, like the Winter Olympics.An Abandoned White Middle Class -
One can make an argument that over the long haul economic globalization will be good for all Americans. Perhaps, but in the meantime the gap grows. The top end of society is thoroughly committed. This leads to the following problem for politicians: The Democratic establishment must lie about its economic commitments, while promising to take care of the middle class, and Republicans can be frank about their free-market commitments, while having very little to offer middle class voters.The GOP’s Anti-Government Line created Trump: Movement conservatism and the rise of the demagogues
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:31 AM on February 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Matthew Yglesias at Vox: “Donald Trump finally went too far for Republicans”
posted by Going To Maine at 8:40 AM on February 15, 2016
posted by Going To Maine at 8:40 AM on February 15, 2016
I dunno, I'm mostly hearing the same old NRO types complain about that. I think what is most likely to sink him is it would be extremely bizarre for Republicans to nominate someone with poor pro-life bona fides when this thing is going to become so much about the Supreme Court.
I doubt it bothers the hardcore Trump supporters, but it should get everybody else to start getting their shit together and start uniting behind someone else.
Cruz might be the one. Ughhhhh....
posted by Drinky Die at 9:10 AM on February 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I doubt it bothers the hardcore Trump supporters, but it should get everybody else to start getting their shit together and start uniting behind someone else.
Cruz might be the one. Ughhhhh....
posted by Drinky Die at 9:10 AM on February 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The funny thing about Trump attacking the Bush record on terrorism is that that is something that Jeb perceives as a strength. Attacking the opponent's strength directly was a favored Karl Rove move. Sweet justice there, and Trump doesn't even have to make shit up to deliver it.
posted by Drinky Die at 9:19 AM on February 15, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 9:19 AM on February 15, 2016
I just wish I knew how it was going to play. I really have no idea. Trump also said that Planned Parenthood did a lot of good things (besides abortions). It’s a strange time.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on February 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:46 AM on February 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I get the sense that Trump is now viewed by many fans as the hometown sports team. Even if they don't make it to the playoffs, have unwavering support.
posted by Theta States at 10:59 AM on February 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 10:59 AM on February 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
How Capital Mobility Destroys Lives
I challenge every defender of the current system of global trade to speak to these workers directly and tell them why their jobs should go abroad. Supporters of unrestricted globalization are dooming these workers to poverty, to higher alcohol and drug use rates, to higher rates of domestic violence, and to all the social and economic instability that has hollowed out the American working class over the past 40 years. It’s hardly a wonder that white working-class voters are streaming toward Trump. They support his policy positions that they should continue to have jobs. None of the other Republicans support that.posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:03 PM on February 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I challenge every defender of the current system of global trade to speak to these workers directly and tell them why their jobs should go abroad.
Because the post-WWII setup of the US being the world's factory was never sustainable. The less cynical side of me thinks that people probably thought it would happen at a slower rate, but they didn't foresee technological and political changes that just threw it all into overdrive.
I disagree that this is the fault of globalization and somehow other countries are to blame.
posted by FJT at 4:34 PM on February 15, 2016
Because the post-WWII setup of the US being the world's factory was never sustainable. The less cynical side of me thinks that people probably thought it would happen at a slower rate, but they didn't foresee technological and political changes that just threw it all into overdrive.
I disagree that this is the fault of globalization and somehow other countries are to blame.
posted by FJT at 4:34 PM on February 15, 2016
Warren Ellis: THE ART OF THE TRUMP VIDEODROME DEAL - "It’s all a bit weird for me. It feels just that bit too much like the news out of the US is being generated by a computer that ate books by me and about thirty of my comrades and is spitting out algorithmic stories."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:17 AM on February 19, 2016
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:17 AM on February 19, 2016
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posted by glaucon at 8:06 PM on January 21, 2016 [20 favorites]