Put your passengers first. Drive Phone Free
March 30, 2016 2:21 AM Subscribe
Please drive phone free (SLYT) The New Zealand Transport Authority publishes a PSA about driving phone free. Quirky.
Once again NZ does it best.
A few weeks ago, I was following a guy down the motorway who had his phone mounted on the windscreen and was watching a film or TV show as he drove along.
Oh god, I have seen this too.
Confession: I have used my phone while driving a few times (but only at a set of lights where I know the cycle and now long it will take), and it's 'important' and only ever to check a map or read a quick text in those few times my destination is a moving feast, but the things I have seen other people do scare me.
posted by Mezentian at 3:18 AM on March 30, 2016
A few weeks ago, I was following a guy down the motorway who had his phone mounted on the windscreen and was watching a film or TV show as he drove along.
Oh god, I have seen this too.
Confession: I have used my phone while driving a few times (but only at a set of lights where I know the cycle and now long it will take), and it's 'important' and only ever to check a map or read a quick text in those few times my destination is a moving feast, but the things I have seen other people do scare me.
posted by Mezentian at 3:18 AM on March 30, 2016
On the other hand, there are idiots who are out walking the streets with all their attention glued to a hand held device.
Yeah, but isn't that the weird thing? We don't cross streets reading a book, but some of us cross streets looking at our personal phones. Interactive technology is partly what's causing this, in ways that humans perhaps aren't previously naturally or socially designed to handle.
posted by polymodus at 3:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but isn't that the weird thing? We don't cross streets reading a book, but some of us cross streets looking at our personal phones. Interactive technology is partly what's causing this, in ways that humans perhaps aren't previously naturally or socially designed to handle.
posted by polymodus at 3:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
We don't cross streets reading a book, but some of us cross streets looking at our personal phones
You'd think that.
You'd be wrong.
I've always assumed it's that whole 'fear of missing out' thing.
posted by Mezentian at 3:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
You'd think that.
You'd be wrong.
I've always assumed it's that whole 'fear of missing out' thing.
posted by Mezentian at 3:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
> We don't cross streets reading a book...
Oh god have I been doing it wrong all this time?
posted by ardgedee at 3:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [15 favorites]
Oh god have I been doing it wrong all this time?
posted by ardgedee at 3:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [15 favorites]
I had a colleague who once told me she liked driving long distances in rural Australia on straight empty roads, because she would just prop a book up on the steering wheel and get a lot of reading done. Amazingly, she is still alive.
That was before mobile phones were quite as common, but I am pretty sure she will have just transferred her reading habits across to the digital screen. There is no freaking way I will ever get into a car with her to find out.
posted by lollusc at 4:15 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
That was before mobile phones were quite as common, but I am pretty sure she will have just transferred her reading habits across to the digital screen. There is no freaking way I will ever get into a car with her to find out.
posted by lollusc at 4:15 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
A friend years ago was picked up hitchhiking in Ohio by a guy who wanted a passenger along to tell him when he needed to look up from his book and pay attention to the road.
posted by LeLiLo at 4:29 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by LeLiLo at 4:29 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's proven to be unsafe, it's unequivocally illegal, yet people still routinely do it and put other people's lives at risk. It's so incredibly selfish and I just can't understand why people do it.
Because it's convenient, and leads to zero harm 99% of the time - until you kill somebody, that is.
Perhaps it should be like drink driving, an automatic ban rather than just a fine.
This is it really, and also it should be actually enforced. Mandating that every car contain a hands-free bluetooth system that actually works would also do a lot of good if we're being pragmatic.
posted by Dr Dracator at 4:33 AM on March 30, 2016
Because it's convenient, and leads to zero harm 99% of the time - until you kill somebody, that is.
Perhaps it should be like drink driving, an automatic ban rather than just a fine.
This is it really, and also it should be actually enforced. Mandating that every car contain a hands-free bluetooth system that actually works would also do a lot of good if we're being pragmatic.
posted by Dr Dracator at 4:33 AM on March 30, 2016
It's legal here and as far as I can tell, at least 2/3 of drivers are on the phone at any one time.
posted by octothorpe at 4:54 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 4:54 AM on March 30, 2016
I feel like we have a generation of people who are being very effectively peer-pressured TO text and drive, considering that it now seems to be a capital social offence to not text back within five minutes.
posted by 256 at 4:55 AM on March 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by 256 at 4:55 AM on March 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
I remember reading a while back that hands-free didn't actually help, that it was a question of mindspace, not what you where looking at.
posted by signal at 5:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by signal at 5:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [18 favorites]
I didn't really realise the massive impact phone use has until I started riding a motorbike. Now that I filter through slow-moving commuter traffic, I can spot the person using their phone a good way off: they'll be the one weaving about in their lane, accelerating and braking erratically and generally being a rolling hazard.
What's worse is I'm pretty sure most car drivers think they're safe enough at 10mph trundling towards the lights having a quick text; sure enough they don't generally hit other cars, but the number of near-misses with bicycles and motorbikes that the driver *isn't even aware of* is terrifying.
In fact, I once passed one driver who had twice nearly taken out a bicyclist on the inside, once a motorbike on the outside and then caused a woman with pram to run off a crossing and I was convinced she must have been heavily drunk. She was in fact on Facebook. I tapped on her window as I passed and she nearly jumped out of her skin; just didn't seem to be aware that there was anyone else on the road. Absolutely terrifying.
It's really time for people to start telling their friends to knock it off if they're in the car with them. It needs to be socially unacceptable.
posted by bonaldi at 5:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [9 favorites]
What's worse is I'm pretty sure most car drivers think they're safe enough at 10mph trundling towards the lights having a quick text; sure enough they don't generally hit other cars, but the number of near-misses with bicycles and motorbikes that the driver *isn't even aware of* is terrifying.
In fact, I once passed one driver who had twice nearly taken out a bicyclist on the inside, once a motorbike on the outside and then caused a woman with pram to run off a crossing and I was convinced she must have been heavily drunk. She was in fact on Facebook. I tapped on her window as I passed and she nearly jumped out of her skin; just didn't seem to be aware that there was anyone else on the road. Absolutely terrifying.
It's really time for people to start telling their friends to knock it off if they're in the car with them. It needs to be socially unacceptable.
posted by bonaldi at 5:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [9 favorites]
james33: "On the other hand, there are idiots who are out walking the streets with all their attention glued to a hand held device. When they fall into pot holes or fountains it's funny."
True story, but this is also how Thales of Miletus fell down a well!
posted by bigendian at 5:10 AM on March 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
True story, but this is also how Thales of Miletus fell down a well!
posted by bigendian at 5:10 AM on March 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
Back before Austin (finally!) banned cell phone use while driving just last year, I would sit at red lights & count the phone users in the cross traffic as it went by. Mornings weren't bad, but evening commutes it was usually about 1/4 or 1/5 of all drivers with a phone up to their head.
My favorite was the lady who flipped me off for honking at her when she ran a stop sign in front of me while yakking. I pulled up behind her after turning & she had a "Hang up and drive" bumper sticker. Ugh.
These days post-law it's not too bad, though I still see people texting on the freeway at 60-65 mph now & again. I give them a wide berth & pray they don't die or kill anyone.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:11 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
My favorite was the lady who flipped me off for honking at her when she ran a stop sign in front of me while yakking. I pulled up behind her after turning & she had a "Hang up and drive" bumper sticker. Ugh.
These days post-law it's not too bad, though I still see people texting on the freeway at 60-65 mph now & again. I give them a wide berth & pray they don't die or kill anyone.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:11 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
hands free kits have been a thing for years now.
Hands free is not any safer and should be illegal to use while driving also. And those hands-free systems *built-into* cars now? How the hell is that allowed? I don't understand why safety regulations for cars haven't banned both the built-in bluetooth functions and the touch-screen car controls. It's like the car manufacturers went out of their way to make cars more dangerous.
And yeah, the reason that people doing this think it's ok for them to do is that they don't notice all the people they nearly kill so they think they haven't nearly killed anyone.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:23 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Hands free is not any safer and should be illegal to use while driving also. And those hands-free systems *built-into* cars now? How the hell is that allowed? I don't understand why safety regulations for cars haven't banned both the built-in bluetooth functions and the touch-screen car controls. It's like the car manufacturers went out of their way to make cars more dangerous.
And yeah, the reason that people doing this think it's ok for them to do is that they don't notice all the people they nearly kill so they think they haven't nearly killed anyone.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:23 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
With all this texting/driving bs we have these days, I'm scared to death to cross the street unless I make eye contact with drivers of cars.
I hear you, but.
1) I've always done that. There's always some idiot about in a car.
2) DO NOT DO THAT IN ROME. Seriously. If you walk into the street and haven't made eye contact, the drivers go "That guy hasn't seen me" and stop. If you do, they think "That guy has seen me, he'll avoid me" and they go.
I tried texting while driving once. It was on a freeway, one going straight, light traffic, three lanes. I had so much trouble that I've never even considered doing it again -- actually, "frightened to" is a better way of putting it.
Nope this with a nopedrogen bomb, people.
posted by eriko at 5:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
I hear you, but.
1) I've always done that. There's always some idiot about in a car.
2) DO NOT DO THAT IN ROME. Seriously. If you walk into the street and haven't made eye contact, the drivers go "That guy hasn't seen me" and stop. If you do, they think "That guy has seen me, he'll avoid me" and they go.
I tried texting while driving once. It was on a freeway, one going straight, light traffic, three lanes. I had so much trouble that I've never even considered doing it again -- actually, "frightened to" is a better way of putting it.
Nope this with a nopedrogen bomb, people.
posted by eriko at 5:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mandating that every car contain a hands-free bluetooth system that actually works would also do a lot of good if we're being pragmatic.
I don't even like to use those, but they're a godsend in the "picking X person up from the airport" scenario.
posted by eriko at 5:25 AM on March 30, 2016
I don't even like to use those, but they're a godsend in the "picking X person up from the airport" scenario.
posted by eriko at 5:25 AM on March 30, 2016
This is it really, and also it should be actually enforced. Mandating that every car contain a hands-free bluetooth system that actually works would also do a lot of good if we're being pragmatic.
I think this would do a lot of harm. At least when people are holding their phones you know who the distracted people are and can watch out for them, give them extra-space etc. Put everyone on bluetooth and they're just as dangerous but you can't spot them.
If you are driving while talking on the phone or texting with a handsfree device and imagining this is somehow safer, please stop. Talk or text when you get there or pull over if you must. Those of you criticizing people who use their phones non-hands-free and who are using your phone with bluetooth while driving, now that you know it's not any safer, will you pledge to never do this again?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think this would do a lot of harm. At least when people are holding their phones you know who the distracted people are and can watch out for them, give them extra-space etc. Put everyone on bluetooth and they're just as dangerous but you can't spot them.
If you are driving while talking on the phone or texting with a handsfree device and imagining this is somehow safer, please stop. Talk or text when you get there or pull over if you must. Those of you criticizing people who use their phones non-hands-free and who are using your phone with bluetooth while driving, now that you know it's not any safer, will you pledge to never do this again?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've made a phone call while driving exactly once in all the years I've had a cell: but I like to think that once was an allowable exception to the no-phoning-while-driving-ever rule, because I was calling in to report a truck on fire on the side of the road. Other than that, cell phones should be turned off and put away from where the driver can get at it.
(And don't even get me started on the idiocy of cars being built with phone/internet connectivity: a car isn't a phone booth or an entertainment system, it's transportation and damn it there are other people out there too.)
posted by easily confused at 5:31 AM on March 30, 2016
(And don't even get me started on the idiocy of cars being built with phone/internet connectivity: a car isn't a phone booth or an entertainment system, it's transportation and damn it there are other people out there too.)
posted by easily confused at 5:31 AM on March 30, 2016
2) DO NOT DO THAT IN ROME. Seriously. If you walk into the street and haven't made eye contact, the drivers go "That guy hasn't seen me" and stop. If you do, they think "That guy has seen me, he'll avoid me" and they go.
This is also the way to cross the street in Boston. No eye contact. In Toronto, look and make eye contact. In Boston, listen and no eye contact. God, I'm suddenly so glad that I haven't lived in Boston since cell phones became ubiquitous. What terror it must be to be a pedestrian there now.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:31 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is also the way to cross the street in Boston. No eye contact. In Toronto, look and make eye contact. In Boston, listen and no eye contact. God, I'm suddenly so glad that I haven't lived in Boston since cell phones became ubiquitous. What terror it must be to be a pedestrian there now.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:31 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
The handsfree bluetooth car systems (which my car has) keep you legal in terms of the "no holding a phone" kinds of laws, but my understanding is that they are not actually any safer. It's the distraction of having a conversation on the phone that is the problem, not holding the physical phone.
Texting, emailing, and internet usage seems to me to be incredibly widespread despite being illegal. Sometimes at traffic lights it looks like every driver is texting.
And I've seen people (including truck drivers) watching movies on phones, ipads, and built-in screens plenty of times on the freeway. It can't be legal and it isn't nearly as common as texting, but I see it often enough to know it is a real thing.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:32 AM on March 30, 2016
Texting, emailing, and internet usage seems to me to be incredibly widespread despite being illegal. Sometimes at traffic lights it looks like every driver is texting.
And I've seen people (including truck drivers) watching movies on phones, ipads, and built-in screens plenty of times on the freeway. It can't be legal and it isn't nearly as common as texting, but I see it often enough to know it is a real thing.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:32 AM on March 30, 2016
The phones are not the issue, really, even though there's probably a lot of interesting (addiction?) psychology in that discussion. The issue is that the infrastructure we've established, in which pretty much anybody can (and in many cases basically must) have control over an inefficient and highly dangerous machine, with really very little accountability re: how well they handle it, is insane. Walking or cycling along a road with a lot of automobile traffic, irrespective of who's drunk or texting, does not help one's impression of being embroiled in incredible mass insanity. I guess it's worse for people who drive?
posted by busted_crayons at 5:34 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by busted_crayons at 5:34 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I still see people texting on the freeway at 60-65 mph now & again. I give them a wide berth & pray they don't die or kill anyone.
I was skeptical about people actually being so stupid as to text while driving. Then, a few months ago, I was going 70 in the fast lane--the speed limit on tollways here--and noted a car coming up on me pretty fast. So I changed lanes. In the several seconds it took for him to pass me, doing at least 80 and only one hand on the steering wheel, he did not look up from his lap even once.
That was a wake-up call for me. People are indeed that stupid. Defensive driving now includes paying attention to where drivers around me are looking.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:35 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was skeptical about people actually being so stupid as to text while driving. Then, a few months ago, I was going 70 in the fast lane--the speed limit on tollways here--and noted a car coming up on me pretty fast. So I changed lanes. In the several seconds it took for him to pass me, doing at least 80 and only one hand on the steering wheel, he did not look up from his lap even once.
That was a wake-up call for me. People are indeed that stupid. Defensive driving now includes paying attention to where drivers around me are looking.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 5:35 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
And why haven't we made safe self driving cars yet?
Or, you know, just some reasonable mass transit (where you can text and read for your entire commute!) and bike lanes?
posted by busted_crayons at 5:36 AM on March 30, 2016 [19 favorites]
Or, you know, just some reasonable mass transit (where you can text and read for your entire commute!) and bike lanes?
posted by busted_crayons at 5:36 AM on March 30, 2016 [19 favorites]
It's really time for people to start telling their friends to knock it off if they're in the car with them. It needs to be socially unacceptable.
After one close call as a teenager texting on my phone I've been doing this for like twelve years now. I normally go "can you please not be on your phone. I can navigate or if something is really important I will text/read for you" It's never important enough.
I had to literally get out of one friends car for them to get the point.
posted by mayonnaises at 5:38 AM on March 30, 2016 [9 favorites]
If I'm in the car with other people and I get a text, I see who it is and then hand the phone to a passenger to read it and write a reply. If I'm alone, I just wait until I'm at a stop light or my destination.
As we move into the future, every should be prepared to keep their minds open. My dad just bought a new Honda Accord that has radar cruise control with steering assist. When the car's sensors can see the road markers well enough and the road is reasonably straight, the car will basically drive itself. You still have to pay attention to be able hit the breaks in an emergency and you can't quite take your hands off the wheel. Well, you can but the car makes you grab it again when it decides that you need to pay attention. It's not quite a freeway only auto-pilot but it's damn close.
In a few more years, most new cars will be mostly driving themselves a lot of the time so your rage at people talking on their phones (at least in cars capable of it) will be misplaced. We're quite a ways off from a totally automated car like what Google has in mind but something that is safer than a human but only works on the freeway is MUCH closer.
It will take a fair amount of time before cars that don't have any automated driving functions are a rarity but this is a problem with a limited shelf life.
And along with that, when your car is driving itself for 80% of the time you're in it, you had better believe I'm going to make use of the many entertainment and communications features of my car.
posted by VTX at 5:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
As we move into the future, every should be prepared to keep their minds open. My dad just bought a new Honda Accord that has radar cruise control with steering assist. When the car's sensors can see the road markers well enough and the road is reasonably straight, the car will basically drive itself. You still have to pay attention to be able hit the breaks in an emergency and you can't quite take your hands off the wheel. Well, you can but the car makes you grab it again when it decides that you need to pay attention. It's not quite a freeway only auto-pilot but it's damn close.
In a few more years, most new cars will be mostly driving themselves a lot of the time so your rage at people talking on their phones (at least in cars capable of it) will be misplaced. We're quite a ways off from a totally automated car like what Google has in mind but something that is safer than a human but only works on the freeway is MUCH closer.
It will take a fair amount of time before cars that don't have any automated driving functions are a rarity but this is a problem with a limited shelf life.
And along with that, when your car is driving itself for 80% of the time you're in it, you had better believe I'm going to make use of the many entertainment and communications features of my car.
posted by VTX at 5:42 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I tried texting while driving exactly once on a 4-lane road with no other cars in sight. I think I used three of those lanes to send the message "tynbing lste."
Never again.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:46 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Never again.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:46 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
The 20% of the time when you could kill another human being isn't worth the boredom the other 80% of the time?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:48 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:48 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, it turns out that most of the things in a car, even the really new ones can be TURNED OFF. So the 20% of the time when you have to drive a car "the old fashioned way", you could maybe drive safely.
I kind of thought that was obvious.
posted by VTX at 5:59 AM on March 30, 2016
I kind of thought that was obvious.
posted by VTX at 5:59 AM on March 30, 2016
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
In 1990 I was hit by a car crossing the street. The driver told the police, as if it were in her favor, "I was changing the station on my radio. I didn't even see him." Oh, well, in that case...
posted by Splunge at 6:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
In 1990 I was hit by a car crossing the street. The driver told the police, as if it were in her favor, "I was changing the station on my radio. I didn't even see him." Oh, well, in that case...
posted by Splunge at 6:07 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
My previous phone had a feature that let me respond to texts verbally hands-free and I thought that was an Android feature but I guess it was Moto X only.
posted by octothorpe at 6:19 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 6:19 AM on March 30, 2016
I'm sure there are quirkier PSA's out there, but I haven't seen one.
posted by kozad at 6:22 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by kozad at 6:22 AM on March 30, 2016
Cruise control and freeway steering assist and all that jazz make the problem worse, not better. You still need to be fully alert forif and when something does happen or go wrong, but you're more able to fully engross yourself in your distractions (watching fucking films on a tablet attached to the windscreen, for example) without it being a problem 99% of the time, leaving you that much less alert and prepared for problems.
Humans not being required to be in command of the vehicle in an unforeseen or emergency situation is a good while off yet. Automating the rest is a terrible, terrible idea - keep the driver busy driving the car, keep their attention on it.
posted by Dysk at 6:30 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Humans not being required to be in command of the vehicle in an unforeseen or emergency situation is a good while off yet. Automating the rest is a terrible, terrible idea - keep the driver busy driving the car, keep their attention on it.
posted by Dysk at 6:30 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
One day I was walking through the downtown core , a car drove by and the driver was eating a salad - bowl up against the steering wheel and eating with a fork. At least he wasn't on the phone.
posted by parki at 6:31 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by parki at 6:31 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
If I'm alone, I just wait until I'm at a stop light or my destination.
Honestly, I don't even think texting at a stop light is safe. (Safer, sure). People don't realise how all-consuming of their attention phones are, in a way the radio or satnav certainly isn't. What I've seen a couple of times is people texting at lights, totally oblivious to the changing situation around them.
The lights change, they notice they're now green and think "shit!" and accelerate off. Only then do they spot the bicycles and motorbikes that arrived and are now blocking them, or the pedestrian that raced across the crossing, and have to hit the brakes to stop again.
posted by bonaldi at 6:33 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Honestly, I don't even think texting at a stop light is safe. (Safer, sure). People don't realise how all-consuming of their attention phones are, in a way the radio or satnav certainly isn't. What I've seen a couple of times is people texting at lights, totally oblivious to the changing situation around them.
The lights change, they notice they're now green and think "shit!" and accelerate off. Only then do they spot the bicycles and motorbikes that arrived and are now blocking them, or the pedestrian that raced across the crossing, and have to hit the brakes to stop again.
posted by bonaldi at 6:33 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
keep the driver busy driving the car, keep their attention on it.
I think you have a very valid argument, but the largest cause of accidents is the driver driving the car to begin with. One of the most wide-spread self driving safety functions is crash avoidance auto-braking. It works faster than a human would ever be able to.
I think a better solution is to find ways to keep a driver still actively engaged in driving while also incorporating these self driving & safety features.
posted by mayonnaises at 6:50 AM on March 30, 2016
I think you have a very valid argument, but the largest cause of accidents is the driver driving the car to begin with. One of the most wide-spread self driving safety functions is crash avoidance auto-braking. It works faster than a human would ever be able to.
I think a better solution is to find ways to keep a driver still actively engaged in driving while also incorporating these self driving & safety features.
posted by mayonnaises at 6:50 AM on March 30, 2016
God, I hate driving. I hate that other transport options are so limited/inefficient/expensive/non-existent that it forces me to drive almost everywhere outside the immediate vicinity of my otherwise walkable town. I travel for work and I like the travel part, but I hate the driving. All I really want to do is sit on a train and read a novel and periodically gaze out the window with a cup of substandard, overpriced tea like a civilized person. That the only place in the US I can acutally do this is the Northeast (and even then somewhat unreliably) is literally one the top five things I hate most about living in the US.
We don't cross streets reading a book,
Speak for yourself. And yes, I have the scars to prove it.
posted by thivaia at 7:02 AM on March 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
We don't cross streets reading a book,
Speak for yourself. And yes, I have the scars to prove it.
posted by thivaia at 7:02 AM on March 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
What if there were a way that turning the car on automatically turned off cell phones in cars (with a 911 exception maybe?). If you pull over and stop and turn the car off you could then use the phone. I know it would annoy people that passengers can't use their phones but I think people would survive or maybe tech is capable of turning off cells only in the range of the driver so the back seat would be ok? I also think breathalyzers automatic in cars might be a good idea.
posted by xarnop at 7:06 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by xarnop at 7:06 AM on March 30, 2016
I think you have a very valid argument, but the largest cause of accidents is the driver driving the car to begin with. One of the most wide-spread self driving safety functions is crash avoidance auto-braking. It works faster than a human would ever be able to.
I think a better solution is to find ways to keep a driver still actively engaged in driving while also incorporating these self driving & safety features.
Safety features like crash-avoidance auto-braking are great. Cruise control, however, is not a safety feature, and it - along with other partial normal-condition driving assists - invites exactly the kind of split attention that this thread is full of complaints about.
The car taking over in emergency situations to avoid accidents is valuable in in that it ameliorates the negatives of having a human driver, it prevents accidents that the driver would otherwise have caused. The car driving itself in non-emergency situations - normal driving - is a completely different kettle of fish, and the situation at present, where many of these driving aids are useful only up until a situation that requires reacting to occurs, are the worst of both worlds, inviting the driver to switch off and stop paying full attention when they are still required to react to situations that might occur.
posted by Dysk at 7:08 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think a better solution is to find ways to keep a driver still actively engaged in driving while also incorporating these self driving & safety features.
Safety features like crash-avoidance auto-braking are great. Cruise control, however, is not a safety feature, and it - along with other partial normal-condition driving assists - invites exactly the kind of split attention that this thread is full of complaints about.
The car taking over in emergency situations to avoid accidents is valuable in in that it ameliorates the negatives of having a human driver, it prevents accidents that the driver would otherwise have caused. The car driving itself in non-emergency situations - normal driving - is a completely different kettle of fish, and the situation at present, where many of these driving aids are useful only up until a situation that requires reacting to occurs, are the worst of both worlds, inviting the driver to switch off and stop paying full attention when they are still required to react to situations that might occur.
posted by Dysk at 7:08 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
I had a colleague who once told me she liked driving long distances in rural Australia on straight empty roads, because she would just prop a book up on the steering wheel and get a lot of reading done. Amazingly, she is still alive.
I.. NO.
NEVER.
posted by Mezentian at 7:13 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I.. NO.
NEVER.
posted by Mezentian at 7:13 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, those system might make the problem worse right now but with the advancements that these systems will be making in the next few years, they'll be making the problem go away. The accident avoidance and emergency braking systems are already parts of the automated driving puzzle that are unequivocally safer than a human driver.
The 2017 Audi A4 can drive itself on the freeway, in heavy traffic, up to 40 mph. For a lot of people that will mean that their morning commute involves driving the car as normal until they get on the interstate, turning on auto-pilot, and then engaging auto-pilot and sitting in traffic for the next 45 minutes until they get to their exit. That system forces you to check in so that you are still driving the car but in that situation you'd be totally fine talking on the phone or texting. If there is a sudden stop, the car will stop better than you can even if you've concentrating harder on your driving than the pole sitter does putting down a qualifying lap in an F1 race (which is about as hard as anyone can concentrate on driving). Could you watch a movie or read a book while driving in that situation? No, certainly wouldn't be safe, but a phone call or replying to a text should be just fine.
The next generation of those systems would probably let you talk safely on the phone, on the interstate, at speed and in heavy traffic would be safe enough for you to read a book. The step up from that is likely full-blown auto-pilot on the interstate that is demonstrably safer than any human. Once that exists, distracted driving is only an issue off the interstate and it's only a matter of time before that piece gets solved too.
Right now those systems might be making the problem worse (and things like emergency breaking definitely help today so not every piece of the automated driving puzzle is making things worse today) but we're very close to a point where technology is going to start to solve the problem without having to try and change human behavior.
posted by VTX at 7:19 AM on March 30, 2016
The 2017 Audi A4 can drive itself on the freeway, in heavy traffic, up to 40 mph. For a lot of people that will mean that their morning commute involves driving the car as normal until they get on the interstate, turning on auto-pilot, and then engaging auto-pilot and sitting in traffic for the next 45 minutes until they get to their exit. That system forces you to check in so that you are still driving the car but in that situation you'd be totally fine talking on the phone or texting. If there is a sudden stop, the car will stop better than you can even if you've concentrating harder on your driving than the pole sitter does putting down a qualifying lap in an F1 race (which is about as hard as anyone can concentrate on driving). Could you watch a movie or read a book while driving in that situation? No, certainly wouldn't be safe, but a phone call or replying to a text should be just fine.
The next generation of those systems would probably let you talk safely on the phone, on the interstate, at speed and in heavy traffic would be safe enough for you to read a book. The step up from that is likely full-blown auto-pilot on the interstate that is demonstrably safer than any human. Once that exists, distracted driving is only an issue off the interstate and it's only a matter of time before that piece gets solved too.
Right now those systems might be making the problem worse (and things like emergency breaking definitely help today so not every piece of the automated driving puzzle is making things worse today) but we're very close to a point where technology is going to start to solve the problem without having to try and change human behavior.
posted by VTX at 7:19 AM on March 30, 2016
If there is ever a metatalk thread about the death of angrycat it will be because a cell phone driver got me. I have had so many close calls I got an air horn for my wheelchair. I keyed a cell phone driver car in a fit of rage and the fucker chased me into the parking lot and got out of the car, huge phone in her fucking hand. If some passerbys hadn't stopped to defend me, it would have been a brawl, because I was calling the woman every name in the book. I was a fucking ghetto bitch and I am not sorry. I am tired of almost dying daily because of this shit,
posted by angrycat at 7:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [18 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [18 favorites]
The 2017 Audi A4 can drive itself on the freeway, in heavy traffic, up to 40 mph. For a lot of people that will mean that their morning commute involves driving the car as normal until they get on the interstate, turning on auto-pilot, and then engaging auto-pilot and sitting in traffic for the next 45 minutes until they get to their exit. That system forces you to check in so that you are still driving the car but in that situation you'd be totally fine talking on the phone or texting.
[...]
we're very close to a point where technology is going to start to solve the problem without having to try and change human behavior.
Normalising texting or phone use and driving like this will change human behaviour, though, and it's naive to assume it won't have any impact on the incidence of this sort of thing in situations where it isn't 'fine' (and the notion that it would be 'fine' in a modern car is... iffy, at best in my opinion.)
posted by Dysk at 7:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
[...]
we're very close to a point where technology is going to start to solve the problem without having to try and change human behavior.
Normalising texting or phone use and driving like this will change human behaviour, though, and it's naive to assume it won't have any impact on the incidence of this sort of thing in situations where it isn't 'fine' (and the notion that it would be 'fine' in a modern car is... iffy, at best in my opinion.)
posted by Dysk at 7:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I saw a guy on the road with an iPad affixed to the inside of his windshield. He was making a FaceTime call. When I pull alongside him I could see the person on the other end of the FaceTime call was driving too. Egads!
and things like emergency breaking definitely help today so not every piece of the automated driving puzzle is making things worse today
I fear it will be the opposite. The center-mounted stop light helped to reduce accidents because it helped people react more quickly to the car in front stopping. So people adapted and started following more closely. While an improvement in safety now, I think automatic emergency breaking will cause drivers' behaviors to adapt to an environment where they don't have to pay as much attention to what's going on in front of them, a new normal of less safe driving augmented by technology.
posted by peeedro at 7:51 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
and things like emergency breaking definitely help today so not every piece of the automated driving puzzle is making things worse today
I fear it will be the opposite. The center-mounted stop light helped to reduce accidents because it helped people react more quickly to the car in front stopping. So people adapted and started following more closely. While an improvement in safety now, I think automatic emergency breaking will cause drivers' behaviors to adapt to an environment where they don't have to pay as much attention to what's going on in front of them, a new normal of less safe driving augmented by technology.
posted by peeedro at 7:51 AM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
> I was skeptical about people actually being so stupid as to text while driving.
This behavior is so common on my freeway commute that I can tell from a good long distance who is texting/checking their email/changing up their playlist based on how they're driving. It's either that, or way more people are being attacked by bees in their cars than you would think.
posted by rtha at 7:57 AM on March 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
This behavior is so common on my freeway commute that I can tell from a good long distance who is texting/checking their email/changing up their playlist based on how they're driving. It's either that, or way more people are being attacked by bees in their cars than you would think.
posted by rtha at 7:57 AM on March 30, 2016 [11 favorites]
The existing laws really need to be enforced. One reason people continue to do it is that the laws are rarely enforced, at least where I am in California. There are cameras at intersections that send you tickets if you run a "stale yellow," (it turns red and you're still crossing) but I've never seen anyone actually ticketed for phone use while driving. Seems like it could be a cash cow for police departments, too.
My partner mounts the phone on the dash on a magnet, puts on podcasts and compulsively can't resist fiddling with it to find the "skip forward 15 seconds" button because ads. Also when approaching any intersection and slowing down to 10 mph he's convinced somehow that's a different special exception. So your car will break for you? I suppose that's the main skill of a good driver and then it's fine if the car has your back for braking/swerving but not much else.
A lot of people have rationalizations as to why they're a special snowflake and what they're doing isn't bad like the jerk/oblivious move they see everyone else doing. I hate to break the news--the reality is those other jerk-faces have rationalizations just like yours. You're not really that special.
No excuses. Everyone has them, but they don't make your driving better than everyone else's. You just don't love their excuses as much as you love your own.
posted by clickingmongrel at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
My partner mounts the phone on the dash on a magnet, puts on podcasts and compulsively can't resist fiddling with it to find the "skip forward 15 seconds" button because ads. Also when approaching any intersection and slowing down to 10 mph he's convinced somehow that's a different special exception. So your car will break for you? I suppose that's the main skill of a good driver and then it's fine if the car has your back for braking/swerving but not much else.
A lot of people have rationalizations as to why they're a special snowflake and what they're doing isn't bad like the jerk/oblivious move they see everyone else doing. I hate to break the news--the reality is those other jerk-faces have rationalizations just like yours. You're not really that special.
No excuses. Everyone has them, but they don't make your driving better than everyone else's. You just don't love their excuses as much as you love your own.
posted by clickingmongrel at 8:00 AM on March 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Really, society needs to ask itself why everyone is in such a goddam hurry that we can't wait 5 or 10 minutes to respond to a phone call or text message. Multi-tasking is a bunch of bullshit foisted off on us by the "job creators" who just want to squeeze us dry of every waking minute in what amounts to a new feudalism. They're using technology to steal our last few minutes from us, & I refuse to participate.
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:03 AM on March 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:03 AM on March 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
I think telling ourselves that automatic features of cars make this ok just makes drivers even more dangerous. There are plenty of things that cars still can't do. One thing that comes to mind: The most common deadly-thing-I-see-people-do-and-not-even-realize-they're-doing-while-distracted-by-their-phone is not checking blind spots (and really, often looking right at all) before making right turns. It's going to be a very long time before cars are smart enough to do this for us.
And yeah, sitting at a red light isn't a good place to text. If you learned defensive driving, then you know that your job while sitting at a red light is to make sure you don't get rear-ended (like by somebody on their phone). A red light is not a break.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:11 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
And yeah, sitting at a red light isn't a good place to text. If you learned defensive driving, then you know that your job while sitting at a red light is to make sure you don't get rear-ended (like by somebody on their phone). A red light is not a break.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:11 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
How do we incorporate the fact that in the period of time between approximately zero mobile phones to now there are about 50% fewer automobile deaths? I don't like distracted driving, but I think the more important fact is that many people are just really bad drivers no matter what. Slowing down cars and making them safer is much more important that righteous indignation about cell phones.
posted by mikewebkist at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by mikewebkist at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2016
How do we incorporate the fact that in the period of time between approximately zero mobile phones to now there are about 50% fewer automobile deaths?
Seatbelts. Airbags. Side impact bars. Crumple zones. ABS. Traction control. Cars are safer - at least for the occupants - but that doesn't mean fewer accidents, and certainly not fewer easily avoidable ones. Reducing one cause of accidents should not be license to increase another at any rate.
posted by Dysk at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Seatbelts. Airbags. Side impact bars. Crumple zones. ABS. Traction control. Cars are safer - at least for the occupants - but that doesn't mean fewer accidents, and certainly not fewer easily avoidable ones. Reducing one cause of accidents should not be license to increase another at any rate.
posted by Dysk at 8:24 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
If you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with a car. If you want to be doubly sure to get off scot-free, pull a bike out of the trunk and throw it down next to them.
posted by entropicamericana at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 8:27 AM on March 30, 2016 [10 favorites]
A lot of people have rationalizations as to why they're a special snowflake and what they're doing isn't bad like the jerk/oblivious move they see everyone else doing. I hate to break the news--the reality is those other jerk-faces have rationalizations just like yours. You're not really that special
Fuck yes. Sorry, but saying "I only do it at red lights/at stop signs/when the road is perfectly straight/when it's really really important" isn't really very meaningful. It's just the same as how everyone thinks they're an above-average driver; everyone thinks they can text in the car because they're somehow more attentive or more skilled or what have you. You should not be checking texts in your car, full stop, and I don't care how terribly talented you think you are behind the wheel.
posted by holborne at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Fuck yes. Sorry, but saying "I only do it at red lights/at stop signs/when the road is perfectly straight/when it's really really important" isn't really very meaningful. It's just the same as how everyone thinks they're an above-average driver; everyone thinks they can text in the car because they're somehow more attentive or more skilled or what have you. You should not be checking texts in your car, full stop, and I don't care how terribly talented you think you are behind the wheel.
posted by holborne at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've never seen anyone actually ticketed for phone use while driving
It's one of those things that's way more complicated than it sounds, but with the amount of snooping your phone is already doing on you, they could at least throw in automated talking-while-driving detection.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:37 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's one of those things that's way more complicated than it sounds, but with the amount of snooping your phone is already doing on you, they could at least throw in automated talking-while-driving detection.
posted by Dr Dracator at 8:37 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
> they could at least throw in automated talking-while-driving detection.
This is one of those things where the powers that make the laws aren't going to go so far as to inconvenience themselves. Count police car drivers with cell phones stuck to the side of their head some time.
posted by bukvich at 8:40 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is one of those things where the powers that make the laws aren't going to go so far as to inconvenience themselves. Count police car drivers with cell phones stuck to the side of their head some time.
posted by bukvich at 8:40 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
While it is not now, it should be standard police protocol when investigating an accident to check to see if the drivers had phones with them and if so to ask to see that they were not using them. As a privacy freak, as long as I was given the option to say no, I am ok with that. However, if a driver refused, just as if they refused a alcohol test, they should have their license suspended. Driving is a privilege not a right.
posted by AugustWest at 8:50 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 8:50 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
automated talking-while-driving detection
If someone can come up with a reliable way to do this while allowing passengers in cars/buses/trains to use their cell phones freely, that would be useful, interesting, and lucrative. Most of the existing tech solutions for the problem don't work very well, even when you're doing things like connecting company-provided phones to special equipment in company vehicles that should disable the phone while the vehicle's in motion.
posted by asperity at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2016
If someone can come up with a reliable way to do this while allowing passengers in cars/buses/trains to use their cell phones freely, that would be useful, interesting, and lucrative. Most of the existing tech solutions for the problem don't work very well, even when you're doing things like connecting company-provided phones to special equipment in company vehicles that should disable the phone while the vehicle's in motion.
posted by asperity at 8:51 AM on March 30, 2016
My previous phone had a feature that let me respond to texts verbally hands-free and I thought that was an Android feature but I guess it was Moto X only.
I have that feature in my rooted Android phones (S4 and OnePlus One). I think it is an Android feature but that when the manufacturer and cell provider add their skins and bloatware, it gets turned off or hidden so much as to make it unusable.
posted by AugustWest at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2016
I have that feature in my rooted Android phones (S4 and OnePlus One). I think it is an Android feature but that when the manufacturer and cell provider add their skins and bloatware, it gets turned off or hidden so much as to make it unusable.
posted by AugustWest at 8:52 AM on March 30, 2016
Metafilter, you surprise me. I watched the video, then checked the comments here, fully expecting people to be angrily condemning it for its use of gay-panic as the final punchline.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 9:02 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
My car's Bluetooth system has "I can't talk now, I'm driving" as one of its canned responses to text messages, I use it all the time. The one place where I got no end of grief for it was at work. Co-workers were downright offended that I wouldn't text and drive, even though it was company policy that we not do so. I figure a healthy fraction of people on their phones while they drive are responding to the same social pressure my co-workers were laying on me. You have to stay always connected for your job, anything else is just lip service for the health and safety people.
posted by selenized at 9:06 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by selenized at 9:06 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
If you enjoyed this, please do check out the classic New Zealand anti-drunk driving PSA, "Legend". Or as I like to call it, "Ghost chips."
posted by Jeanne at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 9:34 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I have a friend that taught me to say or text back as my first response to anyone who calls or texts me, "My battery is dying so if I don't respond sorry." It works for both social contacts and business ones. Although less so these days, when you are on a plane, people appreciate that you cannot respond. Why shouldn't the expectation be the same for when driving a car?
posted by AugustWest at 9:35 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by AugustWest at 9:35 AM on March 30, 2016
This is one of those things where the powers that make the laws aren't going to go so far as to inconvenience themselves. Count police car drivers with cell phones stuck to the side of their head some time.
Such as in this infuriating case...
posted by Bromius at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2016
Such as in this infuriating case...
posted by Bromius at 9:56 AM on March 30, 2016
is there we I get to chip in and say, texting seems more and more the opposite of a smart technology? Talking on the phone at least only requires one hand. Texting requires both, and your eyes. It makes even walking across the room dangerous ... if you have sleeping cats or whatever.
posted by philip-random at 11:05 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 11:05 AM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
is there we I get to chip in and say,
wish I could blame this on texting.
posted by philip-random at 11:12 AM on March 30, 2016
wish I could blame this on texting.
posted by philip-random at 11:12 AM on March 30, 2016
Brought to you by the people who made Ghost Chips.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:16 AM on March 30, 2016
I can't be the only one who uses Siri to dictate texts and to have them read back to me?
posted by monospace at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by monospace at 11:48 AM on March 30, 2016
Driving is the most dangerous activity we regularly engage in, and we keep finding ways to make it more dangerous. We are truly an industrious and creative species.
posted by Automocar at 11:53 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 11:53 AM on March 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I found a way recently to not drive on Austin's terrible highways two of my three commute days each week. Instead of 2.5 hours of driving in stupid traffic, listening to the news or angry music, and definitely not fucking around on my phone, I now spend two hours on the bus working, reading, or watching how awful the city's drivers actually are (and another hour on my bike. Wheee!) The height of the bus and my cruiser let me see how many damn people are fucking around on their phones. The last time I bike commuted was a little less than two decades ago. Holy crap have things changed. You can try and catch peoples' eyes to make sure they see you before you cross in front of a car intending to turn, but more often than not, you'll never see their eyes at all. People drive without seeming to pay attention to anything.
This PSA seemed a bit off to me. There was something a little gay-panicky about most of the drivers' responses. But I guess I am/should be glad any time people are reminded to put that shit down. But still.
posted by Seamus at 12:07 PM on March 30, 2016
This PSA seemed a bit off to me. There was something a little gay-panicky about most of the drivers' responses. But I guess I am/should be glad any time people are reminded to put that shit down. But still.
posted by Seamus at 12:07 PM on March 30, 2016
And buses . . .
People pull out 20 or 30 feet in front of buses, that are going the speed limit, without even looking.
posted by Seamus at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2016
People pull out 20 or 30 feet in front of buses, that are going the speed limit, without even looking.
posted by Seamus at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2016
The most common deadly-thing-I-see-people-do-and-not-even-realize-they're-doing-while-distracted-by-their-phone is not checking blind spots (and really, often looking right at all) before making right turns. It's going to be a very long time before cars are smart enough to do this for us.
Lots of cars already come standard with blind spot notification systems that buzz at you if you're trying to merge into someone. The Nissan Fuga (2009) will apparently actually steer you out of the way. Infiniti M does something similar as well.
My co-workers Honda has a camera that turns on when you turn your right turn signal on that shows you your blind spot. I'm pretty sure it beeped at me once because it thought a bush was in my blind spot when turning.
posted by mayonnaises at 12:51 PM on March 30, 2016
Lots of cars already come standard with blind spot notification systems that buzz at you if you're trying to merge into someone. The Nissan Fuga (2009) will apparently actually steer you out of the way. Infiniti M does something similar as well.
My co-workers Honda has a camera that turns on when you turn your right turn signal on that shows you your blind spot. I'm pretty sure it beeped at me once because it thought a bush was in my blind spot when turning.
posted by mayonnaises at 12:51 PM on March 30, 2016
I can't be the only one who uses Siri to dictate texts and to have them read back to me?
You're not. Many people engage in this dangerous activity.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:13 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
You're not. Many people engage in this dangerous activity.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:13 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of cars already come standard with blind spot notification systems that buzz at you if you're trying to merge into someone. The Nissan Fuga (2009) will apparently actually steer you out of the way. Infiniti M does something similar as well. My co-workers Honda has a camera that turns on when you turn your right turn signal on that shows you your blind spot. I'm pretty sure it beeped at me once because it thought a bush was in my blind spot when turning.
How does it identify pedestrians on the sidewalk who want to cross or bicycles that aren't in your blindspot yet, but will be just in the right spot to be hit in a couple of seconds? And what's the use of a camera showing you something when people aren't looking because their attention is elsewhere and drivers' eyes don't scan as quickly or frequently when they're doing phone things while they drive?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:16 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
How does it identify pedestrians on the sidewalk who want to cross or bicycles that aren't in your blindspot yet, but will be just in the right spot to be hit in a couple of seconds? And what's the use of a camera showing you something when people aren't looking because their attention is elsewhere and drivers' eyes don't scan as quickly or frequently when they're doing phone things while they drive?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:16 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I saw a guy on the road with an iPad affixed to the inside of his windshield. He was making a FaceTime call. When I pull alongside him I could see the person on the other end of the FaceTime call was driving too. Egads!
Ugh, I hate this kind of distracted driving. Just pay attention to the road and not what's going on in someone elses' car!
jk you're fine, that guy should be crushed beneath heavy stones tho
posted by FatherDagon at 2:40 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I hate this kind of distracted driving. Just pay attention to the road and not what's going on in someone elses' car!
jk you're fine, that guy should be crushed beneath heavy stones tho
posted by FatherDagon at 2:40 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
My previous phone had a feature that let me respond to texts verbally hands-free
A friend of mine sent me a screenshot from his smartphone of a text exchange between himself and his wife. It was unremarkable until two in a row from him:
A friend of mine sent me a screenshot from his smartphone of a text exchange between himself and his wife. It was unremarkable until two in a row from him:
I am stopping by the grocery store to pick up eggs and pasta sauce. Do we still need bread or should I just pick a lane you jagoff.posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:53 PM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
Sorry I was dictating with the handsfree setting.
There are apps that will turn off your ringtone and text notification sound when you are going over a certain speed. Most have a way to turn them off if you are a passenger.
posted by soelo at 3:08 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by soelo at 3:08 PM on March 30, 2016
I turned off my text notification sound forever the first time I got a spam text at 3AM & there's a button on the side of my phone that turns off the ringer. People just need to exercise a modicum of responsibility & self-restraint.
Haha, as if.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:20 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
Haha, as if.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:20 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
About half an hour ago, as I was driving home on the freeway, a police car came zooming onto the freeway and started weaving back and forth and back and forth - creating a traffic break. Because even though it's spring break for a lot of schools here and traffic is incredibly light, THREE cars managed to hit each other - in the fast lane, even. There were a couple more cop cars and some non-cop people standing on the left shoulder, so it didn't seem like anyone was badly hurt, but there were also car bits scattered across the two left lanes.
I would bet money that at least one of those drivers was looking at their phone when it happened, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were all three.
posted by rtha at 4:47 PM on March 30, 2016
I would bet money that at least one of those drivers was looking at their phone when it happened, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were all three.
posted by rtha at 4:47 PM on March 30, 2016
I wonder how many people posted to this thread while driving.
A few thoughts from an auto enthusiast:
Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong. Ask anyone you know and they will insist that other drivers are just "the worst," but will rarely admit to their own deficiencies. There are 70+ posts on this topic so far, and I be willing to wager that 30% of y'all don't use turn signals.
Most people on the roads have no idea of the limits of their vehicles, and that is arguably more dangerous than any distraction. If you don't know what happens when your rear-end breaks loose, or how to recover from it, you're going into the ditch, or retaining wall, or worse. It's a deficiency of our system of driver instruction that we don't teach basic emergency maneuvering. One rainy night in high school spent doing donuts behind the bowling alley in my '92 Explorer taught me more about vehicle dynamics than most people accumulate in a lifetime, not that I encourage such behavior.
Driving a car is not a single action. You are constantly multitasking whether or not you are aware of it. Modulation of the throttle and brake. Controlling the direction of the vehicle. Monitoring your surroundings. Signalling you intentions to other drivers. Navigation, internally or using an aid. Shifting gears, if you have a manual. Etc, etc. We think of driving as one thing because we are accustomed to doing so but really there's a lot happening at once.
If you have a passenger in the car, do you insist that they look ahead and maintain silence. If you have children fidgeting or misbehaving in the backseat do you just ignore it and hope they stop. Should we ban passenger conversation or not allow parents to transport their children in the name of preventing distracted driving? It's hard to make this argument without sounding like a dickhead because I hate when people don't pay attention to what they're doing out there for any reason, and I agree with anti-texting laws because the physical nature of texting precludes one from looking at the road, despite the difficulty of enforcing them; but distractions are kind of unavoidable.
I regularly drive long distances for work, and when I'm doing long distance the bigger danger than distraction is my mind wandering from the boredom, which I guess is a form of distraction. So I listen to music or an audiobook and if I'm rolling down the interstate somewhere in the country with few drivers around and get a text when I'm 100 miles from my destination, I can pull into the right lane, fall back from whoever is in front of me and see what's up while maintaining a good distance. It's not optimal, but done judiciously it's no worse than reaching back momentarily to separate squirming youngsters, or drinking a cup of coffee, or fiddling with the radio. I often make calls when I'm just cruising along leisurely because it prevents me from drifting off too deep into thought, and with a hands-free it's no worse than talking to a passenger (other than dialing the number). Now if I'm driving through busy surface streets in Atlanta and I get a text or call I'm gonna wait til I get where I'm going or until there's a stop light, because there already is way more stuff to monitor than the first scenario and (usually) I don't have to wait an hour. Same goes for driving down a winding country 2-lane at night, not worth it. Context matters.
I do think that most of the newer connectivity stuff that they are now putting into cars does more harm than good, because honestly most of it is shit. It usually doesn't work well so you end up trying to fiddle with it while moving which defeats the entire purpose. I've yet to meet a bluetooth stereo that actually allows you to navigate through a directory of music files without using the phone itself. Usually I end up setting a playlist before I have a long trip and just let it ride.
Basically, just learn the limits of your vehicle; don't be in such a hurry; don't drive drunk; don't follow so close; keep your vehicle in good working order; don't drive distracted, but if you are going to be distracted, use your head about it and mitigate the risks. And use your goddamned turn signals.
posted by dudemanlives at 5:30 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
A few thoughts from an auto enthusiast:
Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong. Ask anyone you know and they will insist that other drivers are just "the worst," but will rarely admit to their own deficiencies. There are 70+ posts on this topic so far, and I be willing to wager that 30% of y'all don't use turn signals.
Most people on the roads have no idea of the limits of their vehicles, and that is arguably more dangerous than any distraction. If you don't know what happens when your rear-end breaks loose, or how to recover from it, you're going into the ditch, or retaining wall, or worse. It's a deficiency of our system of driver instruction that we don't teach basic emergency maneuvering. One rainy night in high school spent doing donuts behind the bowling alley in my '92 Explorer taught me more about vehicle dynamics than most people accumulate in a lifetime, not that I encourage such behavior.
Driving a car is not a single action. You are constantly multitasking whether or not you are aware of it. Modulation of the throttle and brake. Controlling the direction of the vehicle. Monitoring your surroundings. Signalling you intentions to other drivers. Navigation, internally or using an aid. Shifting gears, if you have a manual. Etc, etc. We think of driving as one thing because we are accustomed to doing so but really there's a lot happening at once.
If you have a passenger in the car, do you insist that they look ahead and maintain silence. If you have children fidgeting or misbehaving in the backseat do you just ignore it and hope they stop. Should we ban passenger conversation or not allow parents to transport their children in the name of preventing distracted driving? It's hard to make this argument without sounding like a dickhead because I hate when people don't pay attention to what they're doing out there for any reason, and I agree with anti-texting laws because the physical nature of texting precludes one from looking at the road, despite the difficulty of enforcing them; but distractions are kind of unavoidable.
I regularly drive long distances for work, and when I'm doing long distance the bigger danger than distraction is my mind wandering from the boredom, which I guess is a form of distraction. So I listen to music or an audiobook and if I'm rolling down the interstate somewhere in the country with few drivers around and get a text when I'm 100 miles from my destination, I can pull into the right lane, fall back from whoever is in front of me and see what's up while maintaining a good distance. It's not optimal, but done judiciously it's no worse than reaching back momentarily to separate squirming youngsters, or drinking a cup of coffee, or fiddling with the radio. I often make calls when I'm just cruising along leisurely because it prevents me from drifting off too deep into thought, and with a hands-free it's no worse than talking to a passenger (other than dialing the number). Now if I'm driving through busy surface streets in Atlanta and I get a text or call I'm gonna wait til I get where I'm going or until there's a stop light, because there already is way more stuff to monitor than the first scenario and (usually) I don't have to wait an hour. Same goes for driving down a winding country 2-lane at night, not worth it. Context matters.
I do think that most of the newer connectivity stuff that they are now putting into cars does more harm than good, because honestly most of it is shit. It usually doesn't work well so you end up trying to fiddle with it while moving which defeats the entire purpose. I've yet to meet a bluetooth stereo that actually allows you to navigate through a directory of music files without using the phone itself. Usually I end up setting a playlist before I have a long trip and just let it ride.
Basically, just learn the limits of your vehicle; don't be in such a hurry; don't drive drunk; don't follow so close; keep your vehicle in good working order; don't drive distracted, but if you are going to be distracted, use your head about it and mitigate the risks. And use your goddamned turn signals.
posted by dudemanlives at 5:30 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would bet money that at least one of those drivers was looking at their phone when it happened, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were all three.
In my neck of the woods the cop was probably surfing the web on his fancy built-in laptop... but for some reason that doesn't count as distracted driving because our police officers are actually superhuman cyborgs capable of extreme multitasking.
Or at least, I imagine that must be the case, because no other explanation works.
posted by some loser at 5:55 PM on March 30, 2016
In my neck of the woods the cop was probably surfing the web on his fancy built-in laptop... but for some reason that doesn't count as distracted driving because our police officers are actually superhuman cyborgs capable of extreme multitasking.
Or at least, I imagine that must be the case, because no other explanation works.
posted by some loser at 5:55 PM on March 30, 2016
Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong. Ask anyone you know and they will insist that other drivers are just "the worst," but will rarely admit to their own deficiencies. There are 70+ posts on this topic so far, and I be willing to wager that 30% of y'all don't use turn signals.
I signal religiously. Like if I make a 3 point turn, I signal each of the separate direction changes. I signal to move over in a parking lot. And of course every lane change or turn. But I will admit my shortcomings as a driver: I'm indecisive. When I drive, I am aware every second that if I make a small mistake or miss something, I could kill someone. In theory it's good to be aware of that, but in practice, it makes every little decision fraught -- is there time for me to turn left? I do the inch up, break..no go...no wait... thing. I know it's dangerous to not make up my mind and go with it, but I'm just not sure what the best thing to do is right now!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:57 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
I signal religiously. Like if I make a 3 point turn, I signal each of the separate direction changes. I signal to move over in a parking lot. And of course every lane change or turn. But I will admit my shortcomings as a driver: I'm indecisive. When I drive, I am aware every second that if I make a small mistake or miss something, I could kill someone. In theory it's good to be aware of that, but in practice, it makes every little decision fraught -- is there time for me to turn left? I do the inch up, break..no go...no wait... thing. I know it's dangerous to not make up my mind and go with it, but I'm just not sure what the best thing to do is right now!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:57 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
It's not optimal, but done judiciously [reading a text is] no worse than reaching back momentarily to separate squirming youngsters, or drinking a cup of coffee, or fiddling with the radio.
Average reading speed is 200 wpm, say half that while trying to drive a car at the same time. Average text is around 100 words, so let's say 30 seconds pure reading. That's 650 metres travelled at 50mph, so add on time for opening the text and dealing with the phone and reading that text has taken you a kilometre. Add a reply, you'll be at well over a mile travelled.
This is not the same thing as reaching back, or drinking a cup of coffee, or fiddling with the radio. This is another, much more dangerous thing, and it's insidiously more dangerous because we aren't aware of the time we lose to the reading, and so equate it with those much less dangerous things and don't handle the risk accordingly.
with a hands-free it's no worse than talking to a passenger
Disagree here too. Passengers are with you; they generally know when you need to shift your full attention back to the road and will shut up without you having to tell them, they keep an eye on the road while you're looking at them, they yell out if you've missed something. Talking to someone sitting beside you in a car is a world away from a handsfree call.
posted by bonaldi at 5:59 PM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
Average reading speed is 200 wpm, say half that while trying to drive a car at the same time. Average text is around 100 words, so let's say 30 seconds pure reading. That's 650 metres travelled at 50mph, so add on time for opening the text and dealing with the phone and reading that text has taken you a kilometre. Add a reply, you'll be at well over a mile travelled.
This is not the same thing as reaching back, or drinking a cup of coffee, or fiddling with the radio. This is another, much more dangerous thing, and it's insidiously more dangerous because we aren't aware of the time we lose to the reading, and so equate it with those much less dangerous things and don't handle the risk accordingly.
with a hands-free it's no worse than talking to a passenger
Disagree here too. Passengers are with you; they generally know when you need to shift your full attention back to the road and will shut up without you having to tell them, they keep an eye on the road while you're looking at them, they yell out if you've missed something. Talking to someone sitting beside you in a car is a world away from a handsfree call.
posted by bonaldi at 5:59 PM on March 30, 2016 [8 favorites]
with a hands-free it's no worse than talking to a passenger
Citations?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:03 PM on March 30, 2016
Citations?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:03 PM on March 30, 2016
Study by the University of Utah showed that drivers conversing on cellphones were 4x as likely to miss a highway exit as drivers conversing with a passenger. PDF Link
From experience, I think the type of conversation matters as well, if I'm calling my mom, for no real reason other than that I'm driving and might as well have someone to talk to, that's fine, but on the other extreme the most distracted I've been is being dialed into a conference call at work and some senior management is asking why my department is over budget this quarter.
The best argument for keeping cellphone functionality in vehicles is the automatic emergency dial that my car does, where if there's a crash that triggers the air bags it will automatically call emergency service and dictate your exact address to it and say the driver has been incapacitated if you don't hit the button that cancels the call within a minute of the crash.
posted by xdvesper at 7:00 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
From experience, I think the type of conversation matters as well, if I'm calling my mom, for no real reason other than that I'm driving and might as well have someone to talk to, that's fine, but on the other extreme the most distracted I've been is being dialed into a conference call at work and some senior management is asking why my department is over budget this quarter.
The best argument for keeping cellphone functionality in vehicles is the automatic emergency dial that my car does, where if there's a crash that triggers the air bags it will automatically call emergency service and dictate your exact address to it and say the driver has been incapacitated if you don't hit the button that cancels the call within a minute of the crash.
posted by xdvesper at 7:00 PM on March 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Study by the University of Utah showed that drivers conversing on cellphones were 4x as likely to miss a highway exit as drivers conversing with a passenger. PDF Link
I think that is the study I remember getting reported a lot a while back. It makes sense to me, in that a passenger is seeing the same driving environment and will usually stop talking if something urgently needs attention, like a lane change, but the person on the other end of the phone will just keep demanding your attention regardless.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think that is the study I remember getting reported a lot a while back. It makes sense to me, in that a passenger is seeing the same driving environment and will usually stop talking if something urgently needs attention, like a lane change, but the person on the other end of the phone will just keep demanding your attention regardless.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
Average text is around 100 words
SMS is 160 characters, so those are short words then. Most of what I get are one sentence. "The cat barfed on the couch again." Don't it read all at once. Read a sentence, look up. Car is still where you think it is, read another, repeat. My S4 shows the text in the banner section without having to open anything, YMMV. There are highway signs and billboards that have more reading material that most text messages. I'm not trying to read Ulysses. It's a notification, skim it to get the gist and go back to the task at hand. And FFS don't do it in rush hour traffic or while trying to take a left across an intersection without checking to see if a pedestrian is trying to cross. I'm talking about open roads, man.
Citations?
None, just experience. If you cannot prioritize driving over a conversation maybe you shouldn't try to do both, again YMMV, use your judgement. If I'm gonna talk it's either gonna be a 30 second yes/no type deal, or I'm gonna be driving a long haul and just set back, cruise at 65 in the RH lane and maintain 300 yards. I've known people who compulsively talk/text on the phone in traffic and that drives me nuts. I recently spent 4 hours in a car with a co-worker who spent most of his time drafting a sales proposal on his phone, and said he was fine when I asked if he wanted me to drive. This is the shit that get people killed. I was basically watching the road for him and hoping Ford's adaptive cruise control was worth a damn. I also have a friend who just cannot focus on driving for more than 30 seconds, no matter what, even if it's pin drop quiet no distractions he's just a terrible driver.
From experience, I think the type of conversation matters as well, if I'm calling my mom, for no real reason other than that I'm driving and might as well have someone to talk to, that's fine, but on the other extreme the most distracted I've been is being dialed into a conference call at work and some senior management is asking why my department is over budget this quarter.
Also to my point, I do it to kill time because long hauls on the interstate are boring and there is a lot of unused mental capacity. I don't doubt that having four eyes on the road are better than two, but when all I'm doing is going straight for 100 miles, my mental task list is pretty short.
I know it sounds like rationalizations, but I drive a LOT. I think about this a LOT. If you disagree, I see your point and don't begrudge you it. Mine is that first of all, know thyself, and be brutally honest with your abilities. And I just wish I could ignore it, but the compulsion is so strong to check it. That blinking blue light drives me nuts. Like a sound that you weren't aware of, then someone tells you about it and you can't stop hearing it.
I'm a realist, people are going to engage in risky behavior, especially things that seem trivial. My attitude is if you are going to do it, be informed about ways to mitigate risk, slow down, recognize surroundings, don't proselytize total abstinence as the only way to prevent misfortune. If this were a conversation about sex, the tone on the Blue would be a lot different.
posted by dudemanlives at 7:07 PM on March 30, 2016
SMS is 160 characters, so those are short words then. Most of what I get are one sentence. "The cat barfed on the couch again." Don't it read all at once. Read a sentence, look up. Car is still where you think it is, read another, repeat. My S4 shows the text in the banner section without having to open anything, YMMV. There are highway signs and billboards that have more reading material that most text messages. I'm not trying to read Ulysses. It's a notification, skim it to get the gist and go back to the task at hand. And FFS don't do it in rush hour traffic or while trying to take a left across an intersection without checking to see if a pedestrian is trying to cross. I'm talking about open roads, man.
Citations?
None, just experience. If you cannot prioritize driving over a conversation maybe you shouldn't try to do both, again YMMV, use your judgement. If I'm gonna talk it's either gonna be a 30 second yes/no type deal, or I'm gonna be driving a long haul and just set back, cruise at 65 in the RH lane and maintain 300 yards. I've known people who compulsively talk/text on the phone in traffic and that drives me nuts. I recently spent 4 hours in a car with a co-worker who spent most of his time drafting a sales proposal on his phone, and said he was fine when I asked if he wanted me to drive. This is the shit that get people killed. I was basically watching the road for him and hoping Ford's adaptive cruise control was worth a damn. I also have a friend who just cannot focus on driving for more than 30 seconds, no matter what, even if it's pin drop quiet no distractions he's just a terrible driver.
From experience, I think the type of conversation matters as well, if I'm calling my mom, for no real reason other than that I'm driving and might as well have someone to talk to, that's fine, but on the other extreme the most distracted I've been is being dialed into a conference call at work and some senior management is asking why my department is over budget this quarter.
Also to my point, I do it to kill time because long hauls on the interstate are boring and there is a lot of unused mental capacity. I don't doubt that having four eyes on the road are better than two, but when all I'm doing is going straight for 100 miles, my mental task list is pretty short.
I know it sounds like rationalizations, but I drive a LOT. I think about this a LOT. If you disagree, I see your point and don't begrudge you it. Mine is that first of all, know thyself, and be brutally honest with your abilities. And I just wish I could ignore it, but the compulsion is so strong to check it. That blinking blue light drives me nuts. Like a sound that you weren't aware of, then someone tells you about it and you can't stop hearing it.
I'm a realist, people are going to engage in risky behavior, especially things that seem trivial. My attitude is if you are going to do it, be informed about ways to mitigate risk, slow down, recognize surroundings, don't proselytize total abstinence as the only way to prevent misfortune. If this were a conversation about sex, the tone on the Blue would be a lot different.
posted by dudemanlives at 7:07 PM on March 30, 2016
Citations?
None, just experience. If you cannot prioritize driving over a conversation maybe you shouldn't try to do both, again YMMV, use your judgement
But we've seen plenty of citations that show this isn't true. So you're putting up your supposed experience against actual measurement. And I say supposed because it's impossible for you to know if you're really equally distracted by a passenger or a phone. Some of the studies I've seen on phone use show things like "drivers move their eyes (as in from one bit of road to another, to mirror, to other mirror, to road etc.) 1/3 of a second less frequently when they're talking, even hands free, on the phone." Do you have such hyper-awareness of how many milliseconds you go between moving your eyes that you're really able to say that your experience is that you drive the same either way?
just wish I could ignore it
Oh, well if it's something you actually wish you could change, I have some suggestions and there have been some up-thread also: Turn off the blue light, put your phone in do-not-disturb-mode when you drive, put the phone in the glove compartment, there was mention of an app that turns off notifications above a certain speed. If you wish you could ignore it, structure your driving in a way that makes it easier to ignore.
I do it to kill time because long hauls on the interstate are boring and there is a lot of unused mental capacity.
This is slack. Slack is what you need so that if you suddenly do need the mental capacity, it's there waiting. Hazards happens suddenly. if you're bored find a non-interactive way to pass the time. How about an audio-book?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
None, just experience. If you cannot prioritize driving over a conversation maybe you shouldn't try to do both, again YMMV, use your judgement
But we've seen plenty of citations that show this isn't true. So you're putting up your supposed experience against actual measurement. And I say supposed because it's impossible for you to know if you're really equally distracted by a passenger or a phone. Some of the studies I've seen on phone use show things like "drivers move their eyes (as in from one bit of road to another, to mirror, to other mirror, to road etc.) 1/3 of a second less frequently when they're talking, even hands free, on the phone." Do you have such hyper-awareness of how many milliseconds you go between moving your eyes that you're really able to say that your experience is that you drive the same either way?
just wish I could ignore it
Oh, well if it's something you actually wish you could change, I have some suggestions and there have been some up-thread also: Turn off the blue light, put your phone in do-not-disturb-mode when you drive, put the phone in the glove compartment, there was mention of an app that turns off notifications above a certain speed. If you wish you could ignore it, structure your driving in a way that makes it easier to ignore.
I do it to kill time because long hauls on the interstate are boring and there is a lot of unused mental capacity.
This is slack. Slack is what you need so that if you suddenly do need the mental capacity, it's there waiting. Hazards happens suddenly. if you're bored find a non-interactive way to pass the time. How about an audio-book?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2016 [4 favorites]
My hometown recently put up a sign reminding people to not use phones while driving. Last week, cops got called to the scene of an accident... someone ran over the sign while reaching for her phone.
posted by imbri at 8:11 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by imbri at 8:11 PM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
The most ardent driver/texter I know is a police officer. He brushes off my concerns: "We are trained to do this." Ah.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:59 PM on March 30, 2016
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:59 PM on March 30, 2016
Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong. Ask anyone you know and they will insist that other drivers are just "the worst," but will rarely admit to their own deficiencies.
I am the first to admit I am a terrible driver. I don't know why I haven't had any accidents (apart from hitting a fence a couple of times while parking). Probably because other drivers are better than me and get out of my way. I'm not proud of it. I have taken defensive driving classes and all that, but I'm never going to be a naturally talented driver. So I don't own a car of my own, and I drive the one I share with my husband maybe three or four times a year, and try to stick to routes I know, go slow, and avoid distraction.
All of those other distractions you mention - radio, drinking coffee, kids fighting, even a passenger conversing, are things I actively avoid while driving too. I can't imagine how other people concentrate while event participating in a conversation, let alone drinking, eating, or whatever.
posted by lollusc at 12:54 AM on March 31, 2016
I am the first to admit I am a terrible driver. I don't know why I haven't had any accidents (apart from hitting a fence a couple of times while parking). Probably because other drivers are better than me and get out of my way. I'm not proud of it. I have taken defensive driving classes and all that, but I'm never going to be a naturally talented driver. So I don't own a car of my own, and I drive the one I share with my husband maybe three or four times a year, and try to stick to routes I know, go slow, and avoid distraction.
All of those other distractions you mention - radio, drinking coffee, kids fighting, even a passenger conversing, are things I actively avoid while driving too. I can't imagine how other people concentrate while event participating in a conversation, let alone drinking, eating, or whatever.
posted by lollusc at 12:54 AM on March 31, 2016
If this were a conversation about sex, the tone on the Blue would be a lot different.
You're pretty unlikely to kill an uninvolved bystander by fucking irresponsibly. Driving irresponsibly on the other hand...
posted by Dysk at 2:33 AM on March 31, 2016 [5 favorites]
You're pretty unlikely to kill an uninvolved bystander by fucking irresponsibly. Driving irresponsibly on the other hand...
posted by Dysk at 2:33 AM on March 31, 2016 [5 favorites]
The most ardent driver/texter I know is a police officer. He brushes off my concerns: "We are trained to do this." Ah.
I see police using their car-mounted laptops while driving all the time, both around town and on the highway. It looks sketchy, but who is going to pull them over?
posted by Dip Flash at 4:54 AM on March 31, 2016
I see police using their car-mounted laptops while driving all the time, both around town and on the highway. It looks sketchy, but who is going to pull them over?
posted by Dip Flash at 4:54 AM on March 31, 2016
How does it identify pedestrians on the sidewalk who want to cross or bicycles that aren't in your blindspot yet, but will be just in the right spot to be hit in a couple of seconds?
It doesn't.....yet.
That's the point with all of these automated systems. Their like the early internet. They work, they help sometimes, but they're just the bleeding edge of what they're going to be.
This thinking that these systems make the problem worse have a limited lifespan. It's going to take time for all these things to be advanced enough to really help mitigate people talking on their phones while driving. Then it's going to take time for those advanced systems to become common place on every new car and finally, for most cars on the road to be new enough that they have enough of an auto-pilot for it to be normal for people to talk on their phones. BUT, that world IS coming. Your outrage is well placed today but that won't always be true. These systems are robust enough on some new cars today that they absolutely make a fully engaged driver safer. They also MUST be making distracted drivers safer, just not safe enough that it's acceptable behavior.
So if and when I end up buying a 2017 Audi A4, I'm not going to use my phone in the car at all, just like I do now. But if I end up with a 2020 A4 I'll bet that it can do enough of it's own driving that texting while driving will be totally safe in some limited circumstances.
posted by VTX at 6:15 AM on March 31, 2016
It doesn't.....yet.
That's the point with all of these automated systems. Their like the early internet. They work, they help sometimes, but they're just the bleeding edge of what they're going to be.
This thinking that these systems make the problem worse have a limited lifespan. It's going to take time for all these things to be advanced enough to really help mitigate people talking on their phones while driving. Then it's going to take time for those advanced systems to become common place on every new car and finally, for most cars on the road to be new enough that they have enough of an auto-pilot for it to be normal for people to talk on their phones. BUT, that world IS coming. Your outrage is well placed today but that won't always be true. These systems are robust enough on some new cars today that they absolutely make a fully engaged driver safer. They also MUST be making distracted drivers safer, just not safe enough that it's acceptable behavior.
So if and when I end up buying a 2017 Audi A4, I'm not going to use my phone in the car at all, just like I do now. But if I end up with a 2020 A4 I'll bet that it can do enough of it's own driving that texting while driving will be totally safe in some limited circumstances.
posted by VTX at 6:15 AM on March 31, 2016
This thinking that these systems make the problem worse have a limited lifespan.
I'm old enough to remember all the fuss some car people made about antilock brakes. And it was before my time, but I've been told that mandating seatbelts was also controversial, and I still know people who won't wear them, convinced that they will be magically "thrown clear" in a crash and have their lives saved by not wearing the seatbelt.
None of the safety measures alone will be a complete panacea, but taken together and with enough more years of evolution towards vehicles that are able to drive themselves down the highway, a lot of lives will be saved. I'd love for drunk driving and driving-while-texting to be totally archaic and irrelevant phrases in an age of autonomous vehicles.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:28 AM on March 31, 2016
I'm old enough to remember all the fuss some car people made about antilock brakes. And it was before my time, but I've been told that mandating seatbelts was also controversial, and I still know people who won't wear them, convinced that they will be magically "thrown clear" in a crash and have their lives saved by not wearing the seatbelt.
None of the safety measures alone will be a complete panacea, but taken together and with enough more years of evolution towards vehicles that are able to drive themselves down the highway, a lot of lives will be saved. I'd love for drunk driving and driving-while-texting to be totally archaic and irrelevant phrases in an age of autonomous vehicles.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:28 AM on March 31, 2016
Mine is that first of all, know thyself, and be brutally honest with your abilities.
The thing is that this just isn't a realistic expectation whatsoever to make of the vast majority of drivers -- I mean, you said it yourself ("Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong...") in your first comment.
I don't mean to be snarky, but even in reality if you are actually the driver who has above-average cognitive skills to be able to match, how can we possibly make this judgment for everyone else? We certainly don't run tests during your driving test at the DMV to see how fast you can react and as people have mentioned above in the thread, the scientific consensus (so far) is that when you check your phone you are even slightly more distracted.
Given the combination of (1) it's impossible to expect the vast majority of people to admit "well, I'm just a below average driver so I'm not going to " and (2) the fact that using cell phones while driving has been shown in scientific studies to be very distracting, and in some cases equally as distracting as alcoholic impairment (!), it doesn't seem responsible to adopt a "be a good citizen and use your judgment when texting!" sort of attitude.
There's certainly always going to be imperfect enforcement, especially in a nation such as the US that is so heavily dependent on driving to get around. But in the same way that we don't say "Well, don't drink and drive, but since you're going to do it anyway the least worst thing is to have a very weak cocktail before you leave," we shouldn't say "Well, don't text and drive, but since you're going to do it anyway make sure you do it on empty roads when you're feeling awake."
posted by andrewesque at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
The thing is that this just isn't a realistic expectation whatsoever to make of the vast majority of drivers -- I mean, you said it yourself ("Religion and driving are the two subjects on which nobody will ever admit that they are wrong...") in your first comment.
I don't mean to be snarky, but even in reality if you are actually the driver who has above-average cognitive skills to be able to match, how can we possibly make this judgment for everyone else? We certainly don't run tests during your driving test at the DMV to see how fast you can react and as people have mentioned above in the thread, the scientific consensus (so far) is that when you check your phone you are even slightly more distracted.
Given the combination of (1) it's impossible to expect the vast majority of people to admit "well, I'm just a below average driver so I'm not going to " and (2) the fact that using cell phones while driving has been shown in scientific studies to be very distracting, and in some cases equally as distracting as alcoholic impairment (!), it doesn't seem responsible to adopt a "be a good citizen and use your judgment when texting!" sort of attitude.
There's certainly always going to be imperfect enforcement, especially in a nation such as the US that is so heavily dependent on driving to get around. But in the same way that we don't say "Well, don't drink and drive, but since you're going to do it anyway the least worst thing is to have a very weak cocktail before you leave," we shouldn't say "Well, don't text and drive, but since you're going to do it anyway make sure you do it on empty roads when you're feeling awake."
posted by andrewesque at 7:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
They also MUST be making distracted drivers safer, just not safe enough that it's acceptable behavior.is a "safe enough" level to make this an acceptable behaviour. I mean the point is to minimize deaths, ideally cut them and serious injuries to 0, right? The point is not to "not have any more deaths than we had before cell phones." So if these systems cut death rates in half, great! But if they could be EVEN LOWER if you don't use your phone (hand free or not) while driving, they don't use your phone while driving. If you kill someone while driving in your super-smart car while using your phone, that's not somehow better if that person would have died in a dumb car while you weren't using your phone. You don't get to say "now I've made the car 2% safer this way, so I'll go ahead and make it 2% more dangerous this other way." If you make the car 2% safer, that's great...just stay 2% safer. You don't actually have to pick up your phone to compensate away your new safety features. And if your car gets 85% safer, it's still not ok to pick up your phone and get 2% more dangerous...just keep the car 85% safer!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:00 AM on March 31, 2016
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 10:00 AM on March 31, 2016
"Safe enough" means that a driver talking or testing on a cell phone is no more or less safe than a driver NOT doing those things. When your level of input to the car is "keep doing what you're doing and let me know when there's an exit" because everything else you could be doing to drive the car, the car can already do better and safer than you, there is no change to the safety of anyone on the road if the "driver" is talking to a passenger, someone on the phone, testing, watching a video, or taking a damn nap.
Right now we're VERY cars that are automated enough that you can merge onto the interstate, turn on the auto-pilot, and take a nap. And when I say "automated" I mean that it automates driving tasks to such extent that it does those tasks better and safer than any human driver.
And when it comes to automated driving, being fully autonomous on the interstate is really the biggest hurdle. Cars will keep advancing until they're 100% autonomous 100% of the time but getting them to be safer than humans on the interstate will be the biggest change since that's where most people do most of their driving.
From my perspective it sounds like what you guys are arguing is that it will NEVER be okay to use a cell phone in a car which I hope we can all agree is simply wrong. It sucks that people using their phones while driving and I wish people would stop doing it....for now.
posted by VTX at 10:32 AM on March 31, 2016
Right now we're VERY cars that are automated enough that you can merge onto the interstate, turn on the auto-pilot, and take a nap. And when I say "automated" I mean that it automates driving tasks to such extent that it does those tasks better and safer than any human driver.
And when it comes to automated driving, being fully autonomous on the interstate is really the biggest hurdle. Cars will keep advancing until they're 100% autonomous 100% of the time but getting them to be safer than humans on the interstate will be the biggest change since that's where most people do most of their driving.
From my perspective it sounds like what you guys are arguing is that it will NEVER be okay to use a cell phone in a car which I hope we can all agree is simply wrong. It sucks that people using their phones while driving and I wish people would stop doing it....for now.
posted by VTX at 10:32 AM on March 31, 2016
I've heard the "cell phones can't be worse than talking to your passenger" comment before and it always makes me think of driving with my dad. I will never claim to be a great driver, I am pretty consistent about keeping my car on the road, but driving with my dad.. There is nothing as distracting as trying to drive with someone who is continually criticizing how you are driving and actively trying to direct your attention away from the road in front of you. Neither my brother nor I can drive with him in the front passenger seat (we aren't teenagers, we are both well into our 30s!), literally cannot drive as he is simply that distracting. I think the closest I've come to being in a serious accident and/or killing someone was while he was distracting me. That said, it was helpful in that it has really brought home to me how impossible driving can be while you are seriously distracted, which is why I keep my phone in the centre box while I drive (out of sight, out of mind, bluetooth connected so I can sing along to Matt Good as the universe always intended).
I do wonder about whether or not partial automation will turn out to be a boon to highway safety or if it will just create a whole new batch of problems. Isn't this the exact thing cited as the root cause of many modern airline accidents? Wherein the pilots, who do little actual flying in the modern age of autopilot, are so de-skilled through lack of use that when they really do need to fly, when the autopilot doesn't know what to do, they can't. This probably isn't something we want to import into the auto industry where the average driver isn't as nearly well trained as the average airline pilot in the first place.
posted by selenized at 11:15 AM on March 31, 2016
I do wonder about whether or not partial automation will turn out to be a boon to highway safety or if it will just create a whole new batch of problems. Isn't this the exact thing cited as the root cause of many modern airline accidents? Wherein the pilots, who do little actual flying in the modern age of autopilot, are so de-skilled through lack of use that when they really do need to fly, when the autopilot doesn't know what to do, they can't. This probably isn't something we want to import into the auto industry where the average driver isn't as nearly well trained as the average airline pilot in the first place.
posted by selenized at 11:15 AM on March 31, 2016
I think the big difference is that pilot might be trying to safely navigate a plane from 20,000 feet over the middle of a mountain range down to the ground.
If something is going that wrong with a car, you probably just have to navigate it over to the side of the road and wait for a tow truck.
I could, however, see issues where driving through a snow storm throws up enough dirt, grime, ice, etc that enough of the car's sensors can't function for the car to completely drive itself and needs the human to step in. If that driver is from a part of the country that doesn't get snow, that driver might never have actually had need to drive a car before and would then be in BIG trouble trying to drive through the snow.
So while I think that increased automation will solve a LOT more problems than it creates, it will create some new problems.
posted by VTX at 11:51 AM on March 31, 2016
If something is going that wrong with a car, you probably just have to navigate it over to the side of the road and wait for a tow truck.
I could, however, see issues where driving through a snow storm throws up enough dirt, grime, ice, etc that enough of the car's sensors can't function for the car to completely drive itself and needs the human to step in. If that driver is from a part of the country that doesn't get snow, that driver might never have actually had need to drive a car before and would then be in BIG trouble trying to drive through the snow.
So while I think that increased automation will solve a LOT more problems than it creates, it will create some new problems.
posted by VTX at 11:51 AM on March 31, 2016
If you want to kill someone and get away with it, hit them with a car. If you want to be doubly sure to get off scot-free, pull a bike out of the trunk and throw it down next to them.
You forgot "sue the victim's parents."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:27 PM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
You forgot "sue the victim's parents."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:27 PM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
From my perspective it sounds like what you guys are arguing is that it will NEVER be okay to use a cell phone in a car which I hope we can all agree is simply wrong.
I would say it would be ok when the car is so automated that it doesn't have to have a driver. (so really no one would be on their phone while driving because no one is driving). So when the automation is so great that we can send out empty cars (say for deliveries) and those cars are never in accidents that a human could have possibly avoided, then humans in cars can go ahead and use their phones or read their books or take naps and that's fine by me.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:26 PM on March 31, 2016
I would say it would be ok when the car is so automated that it doesn't have to have a driver. (so really no one would be on their phone while driving because no one is driving). So when the automation is so great that we can send out empty cars (say for deliveries) and those cars are never in accidents that a human could have possibly avoided, then humans in cars can go ahead and use their phones or read their books or take naps and that's fine by me.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:26 PM on March 31, 2016
I can't even walk on the sidewalk while texting or googling or whatever, I have to move to the edge of the sidewalk to look at my phone. I do like when other people are texting or whatever because they slow down and I can motor past them and their unpredictable paths.
In fact, my car has that bluetooth thing where I can push a button on my steering wheel and call out a name and my phone will call them. Even talking on the phone that way is way too distracting for me.
There was an SNL News sketch awhile ago where Seth Meyers says something like, "The FAA has outlawed the use of cell phones and other electronic devices in the cockpit because of possible interference with the flight." His deadpan response was, "Wait, they hadn't already?"
That said, these commercials are adorable.
posted by bendy at 12:25 AM on April 3, 2016
In fact, my car has that bluetooth thing where I can push a button on my steering wheel and call out a name and my phone will call them. Even talking on the phone that way is way too distracting for me.
There was an SNL News sketch awhile ago where Seth Meyers says something like, "The FAA has outlawed the use of cell phones and other electronic devices in the cockpit because of possible interference with the flight." His deadpan response was, "Wait, they hadn't already?"
That said, these commercials are adorable.
posted by bendy at 12:25 AM on April 3, 2016
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
With all this texting/driving bs we have these days, I'm scared to death to cross the street unless I make eye contact with drivers of cars. You never know if they're going to stop. I've seen so many people just breeze through stop signs, crosswalks etc and they have no idea what they just did. Scary.
On the other hand, there are idiots who are out walking the streets with all their attention glued to a hand held device. When they fall into pot holes or fountains it's funny. When they get hit buy a bus it's not so funny.
posted by james33 at 2:56 AM on March 30, 2016 [3 favorites]