“‘This is shit. I’m one of the other people who got the shit!’”
October 10, 2016 1:38 PM Subscribe
Shitstorm In Academia As Professors Receive Packets Of Poop [Buzzfeed News] Junk mail took on a new meaning when three philosophy professors received envelopes of feces last summer. Now, the hunt is on for the 'poopetrator'.
“In July, Carrie Ichikawa Jenkins, a philosophy professor at the University of British Columbia, emailed Haslanger, who’s a friend, to say she had received feces in the mail — creatively described by the mystery sender as “foam sculptures,” according to the attached customs declaration. The same month, J. David Velleman, a philosophy professor at New York University, stuck his hand into an envelope of shit delivered to his office door. After this story was published, a fourth philosophy professor, Carolyn Jennings, at the University of California, Merced, emailed BuzzFeed News photos of the unmarked package of feces she received in July. All four philosophy professors were embroiled in a 2014 academic brawl over what they perceived as an abuse of power within their field. Now, they say someone is sending them shit in an attempt to shut them up. The question is, who? And why now?”Someone Mailed Feces to Four Philosophers: A Disquisition [The New York Times]
“While the sender of the packages remains unknown, speculation quickly centered on Brian Leiter, a legal philosopher at the University of Chicago Law School and a famously hard-charging voice in the field, whose return address was on one of the packages. All four philosophers who received the packages have tangled with him over the boundary between intellectual combat and bullying, as well as his own influence. A few hours before the BuzzFeed article appeared, he posted on his blog, denying that he was involved and noting that he had been aware of some mailings since August, but had declined to write about them, since “publicity tends to encourage lunatics.” “There is no pleasure for me in knowing there is someone out there so obsessed with me and so deranged that they would pull a vile stunt like this,” he added in an email.”[Previously.]
I went to a guest lecture by Velleman once. He seemed like he had a pretty high opinion of himself.
I didn't send the shit though
posted by thelonius at 1:47 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
I didn't send the shit though
posted by thelonius at 1:47 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
This spring on HBO
POO DETECTIVE
posted by roger ackroyd at 1:50 PM on October 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
POO DETECTIVE
posted by roger ackroyd at 1:50 PM on October 10, 2016 [19 favorites]
I assumed Leiter, too. But he's also so widely despised I can see him being targeted as well.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by leotrotsky at 1:54 PM on October 10, 2016
This sounds like a poorly conceived interview question. Four philosophers receive poop via campus mail...
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:56 PM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:56 PM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
There is a man tied to a set of railway tracks. A train is coming. If you mail someone an envelope filled with poop then the train will be diverted.
Wat do you do?
posted by GuyZero at 2:00 PM on October 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Wat do you do?
posted by GuyZero at 2:00 PM on October 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well. Poop has DNA in it. I mean, has anyone done DNA testing on it yet? I mean, this is the kind of thing ancestry.com is actually sort of useful for... at least see if the 4 poops are related.
Is this a campus police issue or a federal issue since it effectively crosses state lines?
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:02 PM on October 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Is this a campus police issue or a federal issue since it effectively crosses state lines?
posted by Nanukthedog at 2:02 PM on October 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
Dr. Humphrey C. Cornholt?
posted by lagomorphius at 2:05 PM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by lagomorphius at 2:05 PM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]
So are there people who not only hate this asshole, but also are willing to do something vile and disgusting to the people on the asshole's own Enemies List in order to make him look bad?
That's pretty messed up if so.
(Nanukthedog, according to one of the stories, poop itself does not contain DNA unless it scrapes some off on its way out the body, and you can't get that scraped-off stuff unless you get the poop fresh or carefully frozen. So no luck on that front.)
posted by edheil at 2:06 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's pretty messed up if so.
(Nanukthedog, according to one of the stories, poop itself does not contain DNA unless it scrapes some off on its way out the body, and you can't get that scraped-off stuff unless you get the poop fresh or carefully frozen. So no luck on that front.)
posted by edheil at 2:06 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
The sender obviously lied on the customs declaration to avoid paying the duty.
posted by dr_dank at 2:19 PM on October 10, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 2:19 PM on October 10, 2016 [35 favorites]
I am a fan of puns as much as anyone else on MetaFilter, but genuinely surprised at how lightly this topic is being treated here on the blue. This is pretty offensive behaviour. It's gross that someone decided to harass someone else in this way, simply because they disagree with their academic views. I really do hope that a thorough investigation is being performed and that the right party is found and given the appropriate punishment.
posted by Fizz at 2:25 PM on October 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 2:25 PM on October 10, 2016 [14 favorites]
poop itself does not contain DNA unless it scrapes some off on its way out the body, and you can't get that scraped-off stuff unless you get the poop fresh or carefully frozen. So no luck on that front.)
Microbiomes are unique too, though, even between identical twins - but if you had a suspect, that might make for a very interestingly-worded subpoena.
posted by jamjam at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Microbiomes are unique too, though, even between identical twins - but if you had a suspect, that might make for a very interestingly-worded subpoena.
posted by jamjam at 2:28 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not just state lines, Nanukthedog. One of the recipients is in British Columbia .
posted by quaking fajita at 2:29 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by quaking fajita at 2:29 PM on October 10, 2016
I assumed Leiter, too.
To be clear, I don't believe for a second that Leiter did this.
posted by thelonius at 2:46 PM on October 10, 2016
To be clear, I don't believe for a second that Leiter did this.
posted by thelonius at 2:46 PM on October 10, 2016
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by etherist at 2:56 PM on October 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by etherist at 2:56 PM on October 10, 2016 [5 favorites]
I didn't sign up to participate in this juvenile timeline of a movie. Killer clowns, a horrible clown that is running for President, now people sending esteemed professors poop? This is all so fucked up
posted by yueliang at 3:01 PM on October 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 3:01 PM on October 10, 2016 [10 favorites]
I would like to know if it's human or animal poo. And I know I am not alone.
Also, more on philosophy and poo
posted by Morpeth at 3:07 PM on October 10, 2016
Also, more on philosophy and poo
posted by Morpeth at 3:07 PM on October 10, 2016
This spring on HBO
POO DETECTIVE
"Pootective," surely.
I am a fan of puns as much as anyone else on MetaFilter, but genuinely surprised at how lightly this topic is being treated here on the blue. This is pretty offensive behaviour. It's gross that someone decided to harass someone else in this way, simply because they disagree with their academic views. I really do hope that a thorough investigation is being performed and that the right party is found and given the appropriate punishment.
You're right, and this is sad and gross. So far, that's all it is, though. No one appears to have had their safety or life threatened. And in this gun-blasted, lead-poisoned, toxic-misogyny-filled year, well, we take our laughs where we can, fully expecting that something horrible will pop up again soon that we'll have to be depressed about.
posted by emjaybee at 3:08 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
POO DETECTIVE
"Pootective," surely.
I am a fan of puns as much as anyone else on MetaFilter, but genuinely surprised at how lightly this topic is being treated here on the blue. This is pretty offensive behaviour. It's gross that someone decided to harass someone else in this way, simply because they disagree with their academic views. I really do hope that a thorough investigation is being performed and that the right party is found and given the appropriate punishment.
You're right, and this is sad and gross. So far, that's all it is, though. No one appears to have had their safety or life threatened. And in this gun-blasted, lead-poisoned, toxic-misogyny-filled year, well, we take our laughs where we can, fully expecting that something horrible will pop up again soon that we'll have to be depressed about.
posted by emjaybee at 3:08 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
The blow-up that resulted in Leiter leaving the Philosophical Gourmet Report was covered on Metafilter here
posted by firechicago at 3:10 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by firechicago at 3:10 PM on October 10, 2016
Once, in college, some friends and I were inspired by a Dave Barry Holiday Gift Guide and strongly considered having a preserved reproductive tract of a cow sent to a TA we all despised. Unlike poop, it was laminated and thus significantly less potentially infectious but would still have gotten a point across.
We gave up on the idea for the usual reasons, a) that would cost MONEY and b) what if we get caught?
posted by delfin at 3:13 PM on October 10, 2016
We gave up on the idea for the usual reasons, a) that would cost MONEY and b) what if we get caught?
posted by delfin at 3:13 PM on October 10, 2016
I think Leiter's more the "use your accrued influence, privilege, and networking power to viciously but deniably (for the most part) target people you don't like"-type, rather than the "send literal shit through the mail"-type. Though it pretty much completely backfired on him in the end, when he tried it on Jenkins before, so who knows.* Oh, he likes to threaten to sue people too.
* he and others apparently have lately been spinning it as just "oh it was time for me to hand off the PGR anyways, and none of those whiners were really important", but no, a huge swath of philosophy rose up and finally decided that he was someone who really, really should not have the power he did over a ranking that everyone depends on.
posted by advil at 3:26 PM on October 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
* he and others apparently have lately been spinning it as just "oh it was time for me to hand off the PGR anyways, and none of those whiners were really important", but no, a huge swath of philosophy rose up and finally decided that he was someone who really, really should not have the power he did over a ranking that everyone depends on.
posted by advil at 3:26 PM on October 10, 2016 [9 favorites]
In puppis veritas
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:29 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:29 PM on October 10, 2016
I am a fan of puns as much as anyone else on MetaFilter, but genuinely surprised at how lightly this topic is being treated here on the blue. This is pretty offensive behaviour. It's gross that someone decided to harass someone else in this way, simply because they disagree with their academic views. I really do hope that a thorough investigation is being performed and that the right party is found and given the appropriate punishment.
Let me second this. The people who received these packages have been harassed for years for merely for supporting someone's right to suggest on a blog post that philosophers act respectfully towards each other, and especially towards junior colleagues. It's not funny that now people are sending them shit through the post.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:37 PM on October 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
Let me second this. The people who received these packages have been harassed for years for merely for supporting someone's right to suggest on a blog post that philosophers act respectfully towards each other, and especially towards junior colleagues. It's not funny that now people are sending them shit through the post.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:37 PM on October 10, 2016 [11 favorites]
And from the article in case anyone thinks this isn't about toxic environments and still funny:
"The recipients said they felt the packages were meant to threaten them.
“This is not a funny joke, but a seriously hostile act,” said Haslanger. “Such acts are clearly aimed to degrade and silence us.”"
Confession: I know one of the women involved in this, so I'm especially sensitive.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:42 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
"The recipients said they felt the packages were meant to threaten them.
“This is not a funny joke, but a seriously hostile act,” said Haslanger. “Such acts are clearly aimed to degrade and silence us.”"
Confession: I know one of the women involved in this, so I'm especially sensitive.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:42 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Re: DNA in feces, yes you can extract host genome from them.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12353586
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14535665
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16078481
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:00 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12353586
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14535665
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16078481
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:00 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Digging into the previously on this one, it seems as if Leiter has been willing to do some extremely shady stuff and deny it. He's still denying that pseudonym is really his.
So if he's really behind all that, he has a history of doing things that are completely unethical and destructive, in secret, being accused, and denying them vehemently forever after.
I have to wonder if a guy like that isn't capable of mailing feces to personal enemies, and then maintaining loudly that it's ABSURD that he would do that, it must be somebody who HATES HIM, because the trail leads so transparently obviously to him, that it must therefore be a false trail?
I am feeling like the relevant philosopher to invoke here might be William of Ockham.
posted by edheil at 4:02 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
So if he's really behind all that, he has a history of doing things that are completely unethical and destructive, in secret, being accused, and denying them vehemently forever after.
I have to wonder if a guy like that isn't capable of mailing feces to personal enemies, and then maintaining loudly that it's ABSURD that he would do that, it must be somebody who HATES HIM, because the trail leads so transparently obviously to him, that it must therefore be a false trail?
I am feeling like the relevant philosopher to invoke here might be William of Ockham.
posted by edheil at 4:02 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
Maybe the poos are coming from inside the school.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:23 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:23 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]
No one denies that you can get DNA from feces, it's that you need relatively fresh feces to get DNA. The mailed samples are too old to be tested.
posted by holyrood at 5:21 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by holyrood at 5:21 PM on October 10, 2016
I am feeling like the relevant philosopher to invoke here might be William of Ockham.
But Leiter is an actual tenured professor right? I feel like that although he may not be the most charming guy around that you have to be sufficiently mentally unstable to mail people envelopes of human feces that someone would notice.
I mean, putting your own return address on an envelope full of shit seems so obvious that not even a crazy person would do that.
posted by GuyZero at 5:28 PM on October 10, 2016
But Leiter is an actual tenured professor right? I feel like that although he may not be the most charming guy around that you have to be sufficiently mentally unstable to mail people envelopes of human feces that someone would notice.
I mean, putting your own return address on an envelope full of shit seems so obvious that not even a crazy person would do that.
posted by GuyZero at 5:28 PM on October 10, 2016
But Leiter is an actual tenured professor right? I feel like that although he may not be the most charming guy around that you have to be sufficiently mentally unstable to mail people envelopes of human feces that someone would notice.
This is true and it seems unlikely that he himself sent these packages. Yet, reading his blog post about the issue, I'm struck by how much of a blow-hard and vain jerk he comes across as. There's a kind of narcissism that comes across when reading that post. He's FAR TOO important to have engaged in this type of behaviour and its the people who criticized him who are suffering and they are suffering because of their connection to him, you know, because he's such an important person.
Ugh, he does not seem like a nice individual at all.
posted by Fizz at 5:32 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
This is true and it seems unlikely that he himself sent these packages. Yet, reading his blog post about the issue, I'm struck by how much of a blow-hard and vain jerk he comes across as. There's a kind of narcissism that comes across when reading that post. He's FAR TOO important to have engaged in this type of behaviour and its the people who criticized him who are suffering and they are suffering because of their connection to him, you know, because he's such an important person.
Ugh, he does not seem like a nice individual at all.
posted by Fizz at 5:32 PM on October 10, 2016 [8 favorites]
This sounds like some people think it is a job for Modus Poonens!
posted by srboisvert at 5:44 PM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:44 PM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]
roger akyroyd: This spring on HBO
POO DETECTIVE
*ahem* Thank you very much, this is a job for...
The United States Poo-stal Inspection Service!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:04 PM on October 10, 2016
POO DETECTIVE
*ahem* Thank you very much, this is a job for...
The United States Poo-stal Inspection Service!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:04 PM on October 10, 2016
He's not really at all nice on the internet, though like all professionals he's quite capable of being congenial in person. The problem with jerks is that we tend to turn off all our empathy when we deal with them, as a kind of self-defense.
It's pretty obvious that he's being framed, though: as he points out, he wasn't even in the country when one of the packages was sent, it's particularly stupid that it's sent from his address, etc. But people still suspect him, because he's a jerk.
I think that's a particularly difficult situation to be in: to have someone try to pin their misery on you when you know you are innocent, at least of the particular act. It's at least as bad as being hacked and having someone post things in your name, with added professional shame. That makes me suspect the parts of the anonymous internet that regularly troll people in real life, send swat teams to their houses, and generally take pranks to sociopathic conclusions. The fact that some parts of the legal academy also traffic in anonymous tomfoolery is not merely a coincidence. This is #GamerGate-style false-flagging for lulz.
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:46 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's pretty obvious that he's being framed, though: as he points out, he wasn't even in the country when one of the packages was sent, it's particularly stupid that it's sent from his address, etc. But people still suspect him, because he's a jerk.
I think that's a particularly difficult situation to be in: to have someone try to pin their misery on you when you know you are innocent, at least of the particular act. It's at least as bad as being hacked and having someone post things in your name, with added professional shame. That makes me suspect the parts of the anonymous internet that regularly troll people in real life, send swat teams to their houses, and generally take pranks to sociopathic conclusions. The fact that some parts of the legal academy also traffic in anonymous tomfoolery is not merely a coincidence. This is #GamerGate-style false-flagging for lulz.
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:46 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I seems kind of gauche to speculate that a specific person sent the poo, unless there is actual open-and-shut empirical evidence that shows that he sent it.
posted by delight at 7:35 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by delight at 7:35 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figured it wasn't Leitner as soon as I started reading the article and saw it was nearly his address as the sender's. I assumed this because I was at an academic meeting this morning where people started discussing mailing something nasty to a colleague they disliked, and quickly hit on the idea instead of mailing it to a third party with the disliked person's address as the sender. Causes more trouble that way.
(We are not actually going to do this, but I imagine many academics follow the same juvenile thought processes.)
posted by lollusc at 8:40 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
(We are not actually going to do this, but I imagine many academics follow the same juvenile thought processes.)
posted by lollusc at 8:40 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think any incident of weird, malicious mail is not to be taken particularly lightly since sending bombs by post is, like, also a thing unstable people sometimes do.
posted by zokni at 9:11 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zokni at 9:11 PM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]
Microbiomes are unique too
Mmm, kind of. The only research I know of into gut microbiome forensics concluded that based on shotgun sequencing of stool samples, you could narrow a sample's origin down to around one person for every few hundred. Human DNA is way more uniquely identifiable if you have a reasonable-quality source.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:17 PM on October 10, 2016
Mmm, kind of. The only research I know of into gut microbiome forensics concluded that based on shotgun sequencing of stool samples, you could narrow a sample's origin down to around one person for every few hundred. Human DNA is way more uniquely identifiable if you have a reasonable-quality source.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:17 PM on October 10, 2016
Host genome is another story, as Mental Wimp points out. One of the first things you often do in processing gut microbiome samples is to filter out all the human reads.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:21 PM on October 10, 2016
posted by en forme de poire at 9:21 PM on October 10, 2016
It's pretty obvious that he's being framed, though: as he points out, he wasn't even in the country when one of the packages was sent, it's particularly stupid that it's sent from his address, etc. But people still suspect him, because he's a jerk.
About that. His gratuitous cop of an alibi, may not be quite so iron-clad. Paul Campos has blogged about this. He is the man Leiter is not-so-vaguely accusing of orchestrating a frame-up on the basis of a separate dispute in another field (legal education, more background previously).
In the comments, a reader (who is also active in the Daily Nous post on this topic) states the following:
"I Googled 60666. As best I can tell, 60666 is the zip code for O’Hare International Airport.
1. We know BL was in Bonn for a workshop June 24 for ‘The inaugural workshop of the International Society for Nietzsche Studies … held at the International Centre for Philosophy NRW at the University of Bonn on June 24-25, 2016.’
2. We can presume he flew from O’Hare to Cologne-Bonn airport, although we don’t know his precise travel dates.
3. The feces was mailed from a zip code the seems to be uniquely associated with O’Hare Int’l Airport on the day BL would have had to depart to arrive at the conference on time
4. There are direct flights on Air Berlin that leave O’Hare at 3.25pm Thursdays and arrive the next morning in Cologne-Bonn, in time to go to the workshop. A 3.25pm departure seems to be consistent with BL popping by a post office in the airport at 1.17 pm.
5. Peter Aduren is a pseudonym BL has been known to use.
It also seems EXCEEDINGLY unlikely to me that some ‘law school scam’ Leiter-foe, in an attempt to frame him, coincidentally mailed feces to four esoteric (to law school people) philosophers, with one mailing coming from an O’Hare Int’l Airport post office of all places at the precise time when it seems likely that BL himself was passing through the very same airport en route to Germany."
Not a smoking gun, but maybe a steaming pile?
posted by the christopher hundreds at 12:09 AM on October 11, 2016 [7 favorites]
About that. His gratuitous cop of an alibi, may not be quite so iron-clad. Paul Campos has blogged about this. He is the man Leiter is not-so-vaguely accusing of orchestrating a frame-up on the basis of a separate dispute in another field (legal education, more background previously).
In the comments, a reader (who is also active in the Daily Nous post on this topic) states the following:
"I Googled 60666. As best I can tell, 60666 is the zip code for O’Hare International Airport.
1. We know BL was in Bonn for a workshop June 24 for ‘The inaugural workshop of the International Society for Nietzsche Studies … held at the International Centre for Philosophy NRW at the University of Bonn on June 24-25, 2016.’
2. We can presume he flew from O’Hare to Cologne-Bonn airport, although we don’t know his precise travel dates.
3. The feces was mailed from a zip code the seems to be uniquely associated with O’Hare Int’l Airport on the day BL would have had to depart to arrive at the conference on time
4. There are direct flights on Air Berlin that leave O’Hare at 3.25pm Thursdays and arrive the next morning in Cologne-Bonn, in time to go to the workshop. A 3.25pm departure seems to be consistent with BL popping by a post office in the airport at 1.17 pm.
5. Peter Aduren is a pseudonym BL has been known to use.
It also seems EXCEEDINGLY unlikely to me that some ‘law school scam’ Leiter-foe, in an attempt to frame him, coincidentally mailed feces to four esoteric (to law school people) philosophers, with one mailing coming from an O’Hare Int’l Airport post office of all places at the precise time when it seems likely that BL himself was passing through the very same airport en route to Germany."
Not a smoking gun, but maybe a steaming pile?
posted by the christopher hundreds at 12:09 AM on October 11, 2016 [7 favorites]
Leiter has been accused of some pretty abusive behavior (and that's all I'll say, as I don't want reprisals myself). But I'd be very surprised if he were involved in this.
And yes, Campos v. Leiter is something else.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:25 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
And yes, Campos v. Leiter is something else.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:25 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
There is NO GUNSHOW POOPHOLE you idiot! Stop making shit up!posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 12:28 AM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]
Btw, Fizz, thanks for posting. I wasn't aware of this.
posted by persona au gratin at 12:30 AM on October 11, 2016
posted by persona au gratin at 12:30 AM on October 11, 2016
But Leiter is an actual tenured professor right? I feel like that although he may not be the most charming guy around that you have to be sufficiently mentally unstable to mail people envelopes of human feces that someone would notice.
Maybe, but I have always felt that similar social safety nets would present someone noticeably mentally unstable from being a presidential nominee, so my faith in the idea that "x can't be crazy or he wouldn't have that position!" is somewhat reduced right now.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:46 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Maybe, but I have always felt that similar social safety nets would present someone noticeably mentally unstable from being a presidential nominee, so my faith in the idea that "x can't be crazy or he wouldn't have that position!" is somewhat reduced right now.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:46 AM on October 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Having known quite a few actual tenured professors, I admire the optimism that assumes that academia screens out people who are capable of that level of pettiness and abuse. I don't share it, but I admire it.
posted by sciatrix at 4:32 AM on October 11, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 4:32 AM on October 11, 2016 [15 favorites]
Let this be a lesson that to behave in an upstanding way so that if someone tries to frame you for mailing piles of shit in the mail, everyone's response should be, "No way he/she did that!" The fact that many people think that it could really be Leiter is a testament to him being a garbage person.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:50 AM on October 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:50 AM on October 11, 2016 [5 favorites]
Leiter couldn't have done it.
The samples were of human shit, but Leiter, being a tenured philosophy professor, is a world class Bull shit artist. This is probably the work of a performance artist adding a human element to the field of philosophy.
posted by koolkat at 6:37 AM on October 11, 2016
The samples were of human shit, but Leiter, being a tenured philosophy professor, is a world class Bull shit artist. This is probably the work of a performance artist adding a human element to the field of philosophy.
posted by koolkat at 6:37 AM on October 11, 2016
> Having known quite a few actual tenured professors, I admire the optimism that assumes that academia screens out people who are capable of that level of pettiness and abuse. I don't share it, but I admire it.
Yup. When I was a grad student at Famous Ivy League University, I saw world-class levels of pettiness and abuse, and everyone put up with it because Famous Professor. I'm not saying Leiter did it, but the "how can anyone think that of a famous tenured professor" defense is vacuous.
posted by languagehat at 7:00 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yup. When I was a grad student at Famous Ivy League University, I saw world-class levels of pettiness and abuse, and everyone put up with it because Famous Professor. I'm not saying Leiter did it, but the "how can anyone think that of a famous tenured professor" defense is vacuous.
posted by languagehat at 7:00 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
The blow-up that resulted in Leiter leaving the Philosophical Gourmet Report was covered on Metafilter here
It seems like a really terrible idea to have ANY one person control a ranking/gatekeeping resource like that, much less someone fond of axe-grinding and score-settling.
posted by thelonius at 7:31 AM on October 11, 2016
It seems like a really terrible idea to have ANY one person control a ranking/gatekeeping resource like that, much less someone fond of axe-grinding and score-settling.
posted by thelonius at 7:31 AM on October 11, 2016
I'm not saying Leiter did it, but the "how can anyone think that of a famous tenured professor" defense is vacuous.
I wouldn't say I'm defending Leiter so much as positing that there's a big gap between being a petty asshole and actually mailing someone a piece of human shit. At least I hope so.
posted by GuyZero at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't say I'm defending Leiter so much as positing that there's a big gap between being a petty asshole and actually mailing someone a piece of human shit. At least I hope so.
posted by GuyZero at 10:07 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
No one denies that you can get DNA from feces, it's that you need relatively fresh feces to get DNA. The mailed samples are too old to be tested.
posted by holyrood at 5:21 PM on October 10 [+] [!]
While it is true that DNA will continue to be digested over time, it takes a while, so depending upon how long the feces were in transit and how warm they became, there probably is significant amounts of host DNA even after a week. Microbiome DNA is extractable at essentially the same levels after 3 days storage at room temperature (although it is much more plentiful), so I would guess that with a full stool and PCR it is very likely you could get a good read.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by holyrood at 5:21 PM on October 10 [+] [!]
While it is true that DNA will continue to be digested over time, it takes a while, so depending upon how long the feces were in transit and how warm they became, there probably is significant amounts of host DNA even after a week. Microbiome DNA is extractable at essentially the same levels after 3 days storage at room temperature (although it is much more plentiful), so I would guess that with a full stool and PCR it is very likely you could get a good read.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:12 AM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't say I'm defending Leiter so much as positing that there's a big gap between being a petty asshole and actually mailing someone a piece of human shit. At least I hope so.
I tend to think he didn't do it as well, but as was pointed out in the daily nous comment thread by a recipient of both one of leiter's nasty harassment-by-email campaigns and an envelope full of shit, for the recipients this amounts to the difference between receiving metaphorical and literal shit. And regardless of who did it, if the metaphorical part hadn't happened in the first place, the literal one never would have.
Another aspect of this that I'm not sure has been fully drawn out here is that there is a pretty clear gendered aspect to this situation. Someone upthread said "And in this gun-blasted, lead-poisoned, toxic-misogyny-filled year, well, we take our laughs where we can". I understand the sentiment, but what may not be obvious just from reading the articles about this particular incident is that in a field where <20% of the full time faculty are women, it just so happens that most of the people targeted in both of these campaigns are women. So I'm afraid that these envelopes full of shit are hard for me to see as anything but a direct consequence of toxic misogyny, and I can't really laugh.
posted by advil at 11:42 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
I tend to think he didn't do it as well, but as was pointed out in the daily nous comment thread by a recipient of both one of leiter's nasty harassment-by-email campaigns and an envelope full of shit, for the recipients this amounts to the difference between receiving metaphorical and literal shit. And regardless of who did it, if the metaphorical part hadn't happened in the first place, the literal one never would have.
Another aspect of this that I'm not sure has been fully drawn out here is that there is a pretty clear gendered aspect to this situation. Someone upthread said "And in this gun-blasted, lead-poisoned, toxic-misogyny-filled year, well, we take our laughs where we can". I understand the sentiment, but what may not be obvious just from reading the articles about this particular incident is that in a field where <20% of the full time faculty are women, it just so happens that most of the people targeted in both of these campaigns are women. So I'm afraid that these envelopes full of shit are hard for me to see as anything but a direct consequence of toxic misogyny, and I can't really laugh.
posted by advil at 11:42 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
Take Trump's "when you're a star, you can do anything" and substitute "tenured professor" for "star", and you wouldn't be too far off. I mean, I hope this is starting to change...but the things tenured professors have gotten away with (or gotten slaps on the wrist for) are pretty insane.
I don't know if Leiter *did* do this or *would* do this kind of thing, but *if* it's him it would be amazing to see him get caught.
posted by uosuaq at 12:10 PM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't know if Leiter *did* do this or *would* do this kind of thing, but *if* it's him it would be amazing to see him get caught.
posted by uosuaq at 12:10 PM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]
If it's not Leiter, it's got to be
* somebody who hates Leiter
* somebody who is callously indifferent to the people Leiter has attacked, and is willing to terrorize them for the sake of framing Leiter.
I have a hard time imagining very many people fit into both those categories.
posted by edheil at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
* somebody who hates Leiter
* somebody who is callously indifferent to the people Leiter has attacked, and is willing to terrorize them for the sake of framing Leiter.
I have a hard time imagining very many people fit into both those categories.
posted by edheil at 1:04 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Btw, I am a tenured professor. Still keeping my mouth shut. There are some nasty, awful people with long memories in academia.
posted by persona au gratin at 1:03 AM on October 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 1:03 AM on October 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
"The infighting in academe is so bitter because the stakes are so small" - paraphrase of someone a long time ago...
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:25 AM on October 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:25 AM on October 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
if you must send poop
Love how this page also points to other "Breakroom Necessities" :)
posted by milnews.ca at 10:24 AM on October 12, 2016
Love how this page also points to other "Breakroom Necessities" :)
posted by milnews.ca at 10:24 AM on October 12, 2016
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posted by Fizz at 1:39 PM on October 10, 2016