I went undercover with a border militia. Here is what I saw.
October 25, 2016 8:48 AM Subscribe
We are in a Walmart parking lot in Nogales. Captain Pain and a couple of others go into the store to get supplies. In Pain's absence, Showtime is our commanding officer. He is a Marine special-ops veteran who did three tours in Afghanistan. He has camo paint on his face and a yeti beard. He gets in the cab to check Facebook on his phone while Destroyer, Jaeger, Spartan, and I stand with our backs to the truck, rifles in hand, keeping watch for anything suspicious. The Mexican border is three miles away. (TW: Extremely offensive language to pretty much everyone)
James O'Keefe seems to pull it off time and time again without even really trying, so I'd guess that Shane Bauer will be fine.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm more anxious that we'll find out he made these things up or something :/ But that's my anxiety talking that way.
posted by gucci mane at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 9:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I really like the idea that cooking things in bacon grease will keep Muslim infiltrators out. It's like holy water and vampires, or something. Presumably, any really committed person infiltrating a border militia will have decided that they're OK with eating bacon.
posted by ChuraChura at 9:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [56 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 9:09 AM on October 25, 2016 [56 favorites]
i can't even begin to articulate how awful, ignorant, and deluded these people are
posted by entropicamericana at 9:10 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:10 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
Ted Conover has made a career of it as well.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 9:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just ate so I don't want to RTFA at this time in order to preserve my digestive process, but...
Destroyer, Jaeger, Spartan
Come the fuck on. Someone please normalize LARPing so that these people can participate in the hobby they clearly are desperately in need of without all the side-effect hate speech and menacing of real actual people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [124 favorites]
"I love having you guys come out and do my job for no pay at all..."
Hope you got a Union buddy, because soon enough you won't be getting any pay at all with the downward pressure that's gonna put on wages! It is a bit disturbing though.
posted by symbioid at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Hope you got a Union buddy, because soon enough you won't be getting any pay at all with the downward pressure that's gonna put on wages! It is a bit disturbing though.
posted by symbioid at 9:17 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
James O'Keefe seems to pull it off time and time again without even really trying, so I'd guess that Shane Bauer will be fine.
Nobody would try to murder James O'Keefe though.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Nobody would try to murder James O'Keefe though.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Hope you got a Union buddy, because soon enough you won't be getting any pay at all with the downward pressure that's gonna put on wages! It is a bit disturbing though.
They do have a union. It endorsed Trump.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
They do have a union. It endorsed Trump.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
James O'Keefe is lucky he wasn't dissected and sold for parts when he infiltrated Planned Parenthood
posted by ejs at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by ejs at 9:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [11 favorites]
2nding Ted Conover's work, if you like Shane Bauer's . They're both great.
posted by Aizkolari at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Aizkolari at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Someone please normalize LARPing
Your comment made me snort out loud, because my first thought was that these guys are LARPing--they just don't know it. They've invented a fantasy world they get to roleplay as the (white male) hero in.
But that's an insult to the pleasant, sane LARPers I've met. And gosh, wouldn't it just be terrible if one of these guys tried to join your group?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
Your comment made me snort out loud, because my first thought was that these guys are LARPing--they just don't know it. They've invented a fantasy world they get to roleplay as the (white male) hero in.
But that's an insult to the pleasant, sane LARPers I've met. And gosh, wouldn't it just be terrible if one of these guys tried to join your group?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:25 AM on October 25, 2016 [26 favorites]
They are totally cosppaying a paramilitary death squad with real guns. Someone is going to get overexcited and it's going to turn nasty someday.
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [39 favorites]
They are totally cosppaying a paramilitary death squad with real guns. Someone is going to get overexcited and it's going to turn nasty someday.
One might reasonably expect that the local constabulary would have something to say about this, and would be a little wide-eyed at the sight of a bunch of guys in a fucking Walmart parking lot wearing full-body camo and open-carrying AR15's, but no, as we learn in the first vignette, the police are actively encouraging these chuckleheads.
My only hope is that the next election is going to do something to repudiate these goddamn assholes. With Arpaio out, maybe some shred of lawfulness will find its way back into law enforcement around here, and they can start weighing the cost-benefit analysis of having a bunch of out-of-state militiamen setting up fortified camps with perimeter security in their own backyard.
posted by Mayor West at 9:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
One might reasonably expect that the local constabulary would have something to say about this, and would be a little wide-eyed at the sight of a bunch of guys in a fucking Walmart parking lot wearing full-body camo and open-carrying AR15's, but no, as we learn in the first vignette, the police are actively encouraging these chuckleheads.
My only hope is that the next election is going to do something to repudiate these goddamn assholes. With Arpaio out, maybe some shred of lawfulness will find its way back into law enforcement around here, and they can start weighing the cost-benefit analysis of having a bunch of out-of-state militiamen setting up fortified camps with perimeter security in their own backyard.
posted by Mayor West at 9:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
They are totally cosppaying a paramilitary death squad with real guns. Someone is going to get overexcited and it's going to turn nasty someday.
(again).
posted by entropicamericana at 9:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
(again).
posted by entropicamericana at 9:33 AM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
It's a little reassuring--not much, but a little--that these guys can't even get along amongst themselves, splitting into Colorado and Arizona camps.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
The 'playing' they do can cost people's lives.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, they sound so wildly incompetent at a strategic level that I rather suspect the inevitable confrontation isn't going to be between these guys and a horde of border-jumping refugees, but rather between an impromptu militia and actual border patrol agents who happen to stumble onto one of their clandestine camps when it's too dark to make out their super-special American flag.
posted by Mayor West at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mayor West at 9:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
So they've got a training school where they waterboard and taser you and whatnot so that you'll be prepared if you're ever captured by a Mexican drug cartel?
Sounds like somebody just wants to torture people, and if white Americans are willing to sign up for it voluntarily, then that's who gets tortured.
posted by clawsoon at 9:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sounds like somebody just wants to torture people, and if white Americans are willing to sign up for it voluntarily, then that's who gets tortured.
posted by clawsoon at 9:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
..These are not the only security measures: I'm told there are motion sensors in the dry riverbed that flanks the base, men sometimes take positions on surrounding hilltops, and most meals are prepared with bacon grease or pork to keep would-be Muslim infiltrators at bay.
They straight up think that Muslims are a bunch of Draculas, scared away by sacred Amurkun talismans of bacon. Jeebus.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [41 favorites]
They straight up think that Muslims are a bunch of Draculas, scared away by sacred Amurkun talismans of bacon. Jeebus.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:38 AM on October 25, 2016 [41 favorites]
It's a little reassuring--not much, but a little--that these guys can't even get along amongst themselves, splitting into Colorado and Arizona camps."Are you the Three Percent United Patriots?"
"Fuck off! We're the United Three Percent Patriots!"
posted by curiousgene at 9:39 AM on October 25, 2016 [71 favorites]
My only hope is that the next election is going to do something to repudiate these goddamn assholes. With Arpaio out, maybe some shred of lawfulness will find its way back into law enforcement around here, and they can start weighing the cost-benefit analysis of having a bunch of out-of-state militiamen setting up fortified camps with perimeter security in their own backyard.
I wonder how one might describe these groups if one uses the same language the press commonly uses to describe Syrian militias. For example, might we replace "out-of-state militiamen" with "foreign fighters"?
posted by indubitable at 9:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I wonder how one might describe these groups if one uses the same language the press commonly uses to describe Syrian militias. For example, might we replace "out-of-state militiamen" with "foreign fighters"?
posted by indubitable at 9:40 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Of all the mistakes I've ever made, the one my mother will never ever forgive me for is dating a Minute Man/border patrol wannabe in training very briefly when I was in high school. This just hammers that mistake home even more.
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Hermione Granger at 9:41 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Becoming a militia member began with opening a new Facebook account. I used my real name, but the only personal information I divulged on my profile was that I was married and that I had held jobs as a welder and a prison guard for the Corrections Corporation of America.
Shane Bauer used his previous undercover stint on his profile. That's...incredible.
I mean, the most basic vetting (say, plugging "Shane Bauer" and "Corrections Corporation of America" into Google) would reveal him as an undercover journalist.
The Three Percent United Patriots need to work on their intelligence operation.
posted by chavenet at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [40 favorites]
Shane Bauer used his previous undercover stint on his profile. That's...incredible.
I mean, the most basic vetting (say, plugging "Shane Bauer" and "Corrections Corporation of America" into Google) would reveal him as an undercover journalist.
The Three Percent United Patriots need to work on their intelligence operation.
posted by chavenet at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [40 favorites]
Sandstone is similarly dressed, except instead of carrying a rifle, a long sword is strapped to his back, the handle wrapped in Army-green paracord. A sheathed machete is attached to his chest.
Oh for crying out loud *rolls eyes*
posted by Windigo at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Oh for crying out loud *rolls eyes*
posted by Windigo at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Lots of militiamen worry about a UN invasion, but Doc worries the invaders won't actually be wearing blue helmets: They might be undercover. Take the standoff earlier this year, when a bunch of armed patriots occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon to protest the federal government's claim over public lands. Doc says there were police there with tactical gear and M4 rifles who wouldn't tell people what agency they were with. "That ain't the way this country works," Doc says. "A law enforcement officer has to identify himself to you." They might have been UN troops. Or they could have been cartel.
Ah yes, the notorious drug-smuggling cartels of Mexico, well known for their operations in Oregon. And that oldest of liberties, enshrined in the Constitution itself, that admonishes that you have to answer truthfully if someone asks "You ain't a cop, are you?"
Meanwhile, I wonder if they'll ever find the genetic marker for what puts you at risk for believing One World Order conspiracy theories. They've persisted since the dawn of human history, and make exactly as much sense with "Bavarian Illuminati" as with "UN soldiers in disguise."
posted by Mayor West at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
Ah yes, the notorious drug-smuggling cartels of Mexico, well known for their operations in Oregon. And that oldest of liberties, enshrined in the Constitution itself, that admonishes that you have to answer truthfully if someone asks "You ain't a cop, are you?"
Meanwhile, I wonder if they'll ever find the genetic marker for what puts you at risk for believing One World Order conspiracy theories. They've persisted since the dawn of human history, and make exactly as much sense with "Bavarian Illuminati" as with "UN soldiers in disguise."
posted by Mayor West at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
The Three Percent United Patriots need to work on their intelligence operation.
Intelligence doesn't sound like their long suit...
posted by jim in austin at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Intelligence doesn't sound like their long suit...
posted by jim in austin at 9:52 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Oh for crying out loud *rolls eyes*
Hey, he's dual-wielding. That's a valuable skill on the modern battlefield.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [33 favorites]
Hey, he's dual-wielding. That's a valuable skill on the modern battlefield.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on October 25, 2016 [33 favorites]
"You'd think if we were out here hunting Mexicans, somebody would speak goddamned Spanish," Yota says.This whole article is terrifying. And pretty much exactly the fucked-up GTA V missions, except even crazier. And real.
"Yeah, but do you know how to freakin' talk to a damn deer when you go deer huntin'?" Bull says.
"Yeah, you just shoot the motherfuckers."
posted by uncleozzy at 9:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I spend considerable time in the gorgeous, rugged terrain along the S. AZ border as the borderlands are rife-full (ba-dum) of neo-tropical fauna whose ranges enter the US only there (jaguar, elegant trogon, vine snake, to name a sparse few).
I've yet to see or experience this mythical war zone, but I'm sure it's there next to the unicorn. The biggest threats I've seen are killer bees and wildfires. And these Wile E. Quixotes.
posted by Flippervault at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [36 favorites]
I've yet to see or experience this mythical war zone, but I'm sure it's there next to the unicorn. The biggest threats I've seen are killer bees and wildfires. And these Wile E. Quixotes.
posted by Flippervault at 9:55 AM on October 25, 2016 [36 favorites]
With the caveat that I am a black hearted cynic, there were a couple bits in there that I found almost heartwarming. In 2016, even right-wing militia leaders say things like "we need more diversity" and some seem mildy skeezed out by the casual use of the N-word. That's progress, you know? Like, there was only one card-carrying Nazi in the bunch. I expected them to be 100% white supremacists, and instead it's like 95%.
posted by Diablevert at 9:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
posted by Diablevert at 9:57 AM on October 25, 2016 [35 favorites]
Yeah, but do you know how to freakin' talk to a damn deer when you go deer huntin'?" Bull says.
I cannot believe this is the nit I'm picking, but yeah people actually do buy deer calls. You'd think these people would know that, if they knew anything.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
I cannot believe this is the nit I'm picking, but yeah people actually do buy deer calls. You'd think these people would know that, if they knew anything.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:58 AM on October 25, 2016 [32 favorites]
I saw this amazing film. I couldn't watch all of it. It's called Amerigeddon. Here's the IMDB synopsis.
A fictional depiction of a future wherein a globalist terrorist organization aligned with the United Nations to disable the United States' power grid and institutes Martial Law. It will take a dedicated family of patriots armed with strong survival skills and the remains of the Second Amendment to save America and reclaim its freedom.
Once it got too stupid I shut it off and just sat wondering who the fuck that was meant for.
It's them. It's these guys.
posted by adept256 at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
A fictional depiction of a future wherein a globalist terrorist organization aligned with the United Nations to disable the United States' power grid and institutes Martial Law. It will take a dedicated family of patriots armed with strong survival skills and the remains of the Second Amendment to save America and reclaim its freedom.
Once it got too stupid I shut it off and just sat wondering who the fuck that was meant for.
It's them. It's these guys.
posted by adept256 at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
adept256: " It will take a dedicated family of patriots armed with strong survival skills and the remains of the Second Amendment to save America and reclaim its freedom. "
Wolverines!
posted by chavenet at 10:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Wolverines!
posted by chavenet at 10:01 AM on October 25, 2016 [16 favorites]
Nobody would try to murder James O'Keefe though.
Is it wrong to fantasize about James O'Keefe doing a deep cover expose on poaching in Africa dressed as a white rhino?
"Day 5. After lying on my back and allowing the alpha male to sniff my backside, I think I've been successful at ingratiating myself into the herd. When the poachers arrive, as I've been told my trusty guide Mdembe that they inevitably will, I will remove this sweaty and ill-fitting, but effective costume that allowed me to cross the Sudanese border, and show them my fake Planned Parenthood credentials. Once the transaction has completed, I will have proven conclusively that the DNC is complicit in purchasing illicit ivory in order to fund Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Pressing 'Record' on my hidden camera. I'll get a Pulitzer for this.
The poachers have spotted me. They are aiming their rifles toward the herd. Perhaps if my make myself more visible, they will approach, drawn by my large horn as a moth to the flame."
posted by prepmonkey at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Is it wrong to fantasize about James O'Keefe doing a deep cover expose on poaching in Africa dressed as a white rhino?
"Day 5. After lying on my back and allowing the alpha male to sniff my backside, I think I've been successful at ingratiating myself into the herd. When the poachers arrive, as I've been told my trusty guide Mdembe that they inevitably will, I will remove this sweaty and ill-fitting, but effective costume that allowed me to cross the Sudanese border, and show them my fake Planned Parenthood credentials. Once the transaction has completed, I will have proven conclusively that the DNC is complicit in purchasing illicit ivory in order to fund Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Pressing 'Record' on my hidden camera. I'll get a Pulitzer for this.
The poachers have spotted me. They are aiming their rifles toward the herd. Perhaps if my make myself more visible, they will approach, drawn by my large horn as a moth to the flame."
posted by prepmonkey at 10:03 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I was originally going to snark my feelings at this, but maybe can someone explain this kind of journalism to me? It always seems to be the same, standard, macho white man who probably has an affinity for people who tell it like it is. But I mean, if you spend x years of your life pretending to be an asshole, how is that any different than spending x years of your life actually being an asshole? I know assholery isn't really a zero sum game, but you're still contributing to the amount of assholery in the world.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:14 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
One has to wonder what the reaction would be if a group of Muslims were out doing this.
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 10:16 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
If you're interested in keeping tabs on groups like these, you should follow JJ MacNab's Twitter feed. She had a lot of dirt about what was going down at the Malheur insurrection, and she's an invaluable source of info. She was one of the first to bring attention to those three "patriots" from Kansas who were planning on bombing a mosque.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:19 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
This is so hilarious to me as somebody who grew up in AZ. A bunch of dudes from Colorado had to come on down to AZ in order to live out their deranged white vigilante fantasies. It makes sense they didn't get along with the Arizona militia dudes, if I were them I'd be pretty peeved about a group of heavily-armed men from out-of-state rolling in and setting up forward operating bases in my territory. Isn't that a breach of sovereignty, one of the main things some of these guys were concerned about Obama and the UN doing? 🙄
Two of my best friends are from England and one of them lives here in Portland with me. The other lives in Patagonia, AZ, which is a town of maybe 1000 people a little north of Nogales. He's there doing some sort of farmwork, I don't know the exact details. When my friend here in Portland went down to AZ to visit he was asking me all sorts of questions. I thought he was gonna be in Tucson most of the time, where I have a lot of friends, but when he dropped the fact that he'd be in Patagonia I laughed. He kept thinking it was gonna be some Wild West shit. I told him "dude if you see a bunch of guys with AR-15's and the wrong type of camouflage on rolling through the probably one road that exists in Patagonia (the 83?) you'll see why I'm laughing right now." This is exactly it.
Of course, it's not so funny when I think about the potential harm these sorts of guys could do. It's deranged. It really hurt to read about them destroying the water bottles and the food left behind. I did like the ending though, when the guy threw a live round into the fire. Jfc I rolled my eyes so hard at that point.
posted by gucci mane at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Two of my best friends are from England and one of them lives here in Portland with me. The other lives in Patagonia, AZ, which is a town of maybe 1000 people a little north of Nogales. He's there doing some sort of farmwork, I don't know the exact details. When my friend here in Portland went down to AZ to visit he was asking me all sorts of questions. I thought he was gonna be in Tucson most of the time, where I have a lot of friends, but when he dropped the fact that he'd be in Patagonia I laughed. He kept thinking it was gonna be some Wild West shit. I told him "dude if you see a bunch of guys with AR-15's and the wrong type of camouflage on rolling through the probably one road that exists in Patagonia (the 83?) you'll see why I'm laughing right now." This is exactly it.
Of course, it's not so funny when I think about the potential harm these sorts of guys could do. It's deranged. It really hurt to read about them destroying the water bottles and the food left behind. I did like the ending though, when the guy threw a live round into the fire. Jfc I rolled my eyes so hard at that point.
posted by gucci mane at 10:20 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Several comments deleted. entropicamericana, if you want to be here at all, make your points without the constant needless jerkiness.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
But I mean, if you spend x years of your life pretending to be an asshole, how is that any different than spending x years of your life actually being an asshole? I know assholery isn't really a zero sum game, but you're still contributing to the amount of assholery in the world.
Imagine if Billy Bush had gone on that bus with Trump back in 2005 with the express desire to want to report on the assholery and tell the world about it. That's a VERY different Billy Bush from the one who sat on that bus with Trump and laughed at his comments and then even went out on camera and applied them to be an asshole toward the woman sent to meet them.
That's the difference between pretending to be an asshole and actually being an asshole.
posted by hippybear at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
Imagine if Billy Bush had gone on that bus with Trump back in 2005 with the express desire to want to report on the assholery and tell the world about it. That's a VERY different Billy Bush from the one who sat on that bus with Trump and laughed at his comments and then even went out on camera and applied them to be an asshole toward the woman sent to meet them.
That's the difference between pretending to be an asshole and actually being an asshole.
posted by hippybear at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [21 favorites]
Yeah, Mother Jones has been investigating and reporting on right-wing extremist groups since at least 2010. They'd be among the last people to "glorify" them in the first place, let alone now, when members of those groups are planning (and occasionally committing) murders and engaging in armed occupations of government facilities.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by zombieflanders at 10:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [17 favorites]
I think it's pretty exposing to show that there are sketchy paramilitary organizations operating within our borders, and supposedly in the border of another country. Not a lot of people know about these militia groups, and I don't think a lot of Mother Jones' demographic know the full extent of right-wing militias. I feel like when people talk about militias, on here and other places, it's sort of the same language about people LARPing and such, except a lot of those posts are about people in the woods of Montana doing prepper stuff, not actively going out on patrols with assault rifles. The author doesn't come off as an asshole to me, he didn't seem to take part in any racist language and simply kept his head down and did as he was told until he finally left. I think it's useful to show that right-wing militia groups aren't just a bunch of dudes in the woods of Montana, and aren't simply cult compounds like in Waco, they're active paramilitary organizations.
posted by gucci mane at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
One has to wonder what the reaction would be if a group of Muslims were out doing this.
Funny story 'bout that. In 1967, the Black Panther Party encouraged its members to practice the (at the time legal) open carry of loaded shotguns when policing the police. When confronted by a police officer, Party members cited laws proving they have done nothing wrong and threatened to take to court any officer that violated their constitutional rights. Needless to say, that didn't sit well with the Very White Powers that Be, and in response the California legislature passed The Mulford Act of 1967, a California bill that repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. So...I'm going to say they would not see the irony in such a action, or even see it as a leveling-the-playing-field sort of response, and would instead misinterpret it in the worst possible way, with predictably dire results.
posted by mosk at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
Funny story 'bout that. In 1967, the Black Panther Party encouraged its members to practice the (at the time legal) open carry of loaded shotguns when policing the police. When confronted by a police officer, Party members cited laws proving they have done nothing wrong and threatened to take to court any officer that violated their constitutional rights. Needless to say, that didn't sit well with the Very White Powers that Be, and in response the California legislature passed The Mulford Act of 1967, a California bill that repealed a law allowing public carrying of loaded firearms. So...I'm going to say they would not see the irony in such a action, or even see it as a leveling-the-playing-field sort of response, and would instead misinterpret it in the worst possible way, with predictably dire results.
posted by mosk at 10:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'm just stunned that anyone can in good faith call this anything but an expose condemning these men, their beliefs, and behavior. I mean, sincerely flabbergasted.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 10:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [9 favorites]
thank you, hippybear, for treating my request for communication honestly. I totally get the need for under cover journalism. You're right, if you go in there and everyone knows your intent then it ends up not being effective at all.
There's just something I can't quite put my finger on with these kinds of stories in particular. There's a certain kind of journalist who gravitates towards these stories - gangs, militias, drug rings, etc. It rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but wonder how much is him exposing these guys, and how much is him living out some GTA fantasies.
To be fair they're not mutually exclusive, it's possible to have someone who's getting off on being able to play a bad guy without being a bad guy, while also shedding light on all of the bad guy deeds.
I'm fully prepared to say that this just might be a personal hang-up, but I don't think it's entirely heinous to question the kinds of people who would gravitate towards these jobs.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's just something I can't quite put my finger on with these kinds of stories in particular. There's a certain kind of journalist who gravitates towards these stories - gangs, militias, drug rings, etc. It rubs me the wrong way. I can't help but wonder how much is him exposing these guys, and how much is him living out some GTA fantasies.
To be fair they're not mutually exclusive, it's possible to have someone who's getting off on being able to play a bad guy without being a bad guy, while also shedding light on all of the bad guy deeds.
I'm fully prepared to say that this just might be a personal hang-up, but I don't think it's entirely heinous to question the kinds of people who would gravitate towards these jobs.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is definitely into armchair psychology territory, but I see as much of an analogy with folks who want to do forward reporting in war zones. Some combination of (rightly) realizing that there is a story out there that most folks wouldn't take the risk of getting, likely with a side of finding the stimulation of risk and secrecy rewarding. I personally think these sorts of stories are good to tell, and at least as honest and fair as the other typical source - the reformed individual breathlessly divulging their horrid past. I wouldn't begin to assume what it says about the individual reporter's values relative to what they are reporting on. I mean, maybe exposure to all of these things has made him an even more thoughtful, considerate and better person away from these experiences? On that it seems silly to speculate.
posted by meinvt at 10:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 10:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Mother Jones put out another article alongside the Bauer one, BTW. It should put to rest any fears that this is about the journalist(s) rather than the topic.
Sara Rathod: Why the Law Turns a Blind Eye to Militias
Sara Rathod: Why the Law Turns a Blind Eye to Militias
When militia members are accused of breaking the law, prosecutors ignore anti-paramilitary laws and pursue more serious charges. In 2014, hundreds of armed militiamen gathered at Cliven Bundy's ranch in Nevada to protest the confiscation of his cattle as a result of his failure to pay more than $1 million in unpaid federal grazing fees. Some aimed their guns at federal authorities and ultimately forced the Bureau of Land Management to release the cattle. Afterward, the federal government slapped the showdown's leaders, including Bundy, with a slew of federal charges, including conspiracy, extortion, obstruction of justice, and assault on a federal officer. Earlier this month, after a lengthy undercover FBI investigation, three militiamen in Kansas were arrested for plotting to bomb a Somali apartment complex. They were charged with conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction.posted by zombieflanders at 10:50 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
State anti-paramilitary laws are often ignored because they have few teeth, says Pitcavage. "You can take a case federal with conspiracy laws and get much more time and potentially much harsher penalties than with most of the state laws," he says. "In some of these cases, the feds don't even give the state the option. They come in and they just charge these guys with conspiracy and there's no need for the state to try and apply a paramilitary training statute."
Even as militia members talk of the day when they might put their training to the test to resist the government, the decision not to scrutinize militia activity more closely may be a strategic one: Prosecutors and law enforcement agencies don't want to risk angering militia supporters and generating more support for the militia movement. "For the most part," says Pitcavage, "if these militias are just running around the woods with guns, most states don't really care."
One has to wonder what the reaction would be if a group of Muslims were out doing this.
the local police would probably bomb a house full of women and children
posted by poffin boffin at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [38 favorites]
the local police would probably bomb a house full of women and children
posted by poffin boffin at 10:51 AM on October 25, 2016 [38 favorites]
I went on a birding tour in southern Arizona a few years back. I didn't see any of these guys but boy did we see Border patrol. We were stopped at least once a day and twice if we were in really rural areas. There were Humvees and helicopters, walls, weird looking surveillance equipment everywhere we looked. The militarization of the border was astonishing to me and I spent a good part of my childhood within a few miles of the Rio Grande. The birds were amazing though!
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:02 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 11:02 AM on October 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't think it's entirely heinous to question the kinds of people who would gravitate towards these jobs.
I think in some instances it's better to look at the outcome than the motivation. The guys who are going to do undercover reporting are finding a way to harness their impulses toward a larger purpose. I'd rather have 10 people who are driven toward danger to go into zones of danger of various sorts with the personal mission to send back reports about what they witness there than 100 people who are driven toward danger who are doing it for fringe, self-serving reasons, even if those reasons are just "wow, that was a great vacation playing militia games" and who never tell the outside world anything.
posted by hippybear at 11:13 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think in some instances it's better to look at the outcome than the motivation. The guys who are going to do undercover reporting are finding a way to harness their impulses toward a larger purpose. I'd rather have 10 people who are driven toward danger to go into zones of danger of various sorts with the personal mission to send back reports about what they witness there than 100 people who are driven toward danger who are doing it for fringe, self-serving reasons, even if those reasons are just "wow, that was a great vacation playing militia games" and who never tell the outside world anything.
posted by hippybear at 11:13 AM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Getting a thrill from being in a dangerous situation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Creating a dangerous situation so you can get your thrills is.
posted by dazed_one at 11:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by dazed_one at 11:23 AM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
This key biographical background on Shane Bauer does not yet appear to have been mentioned. He's a household name in Minnesota.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
So... have any of these guys ever actually encountered a Mexican during an "op"? The article is unclear.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kevinbelt at 11:27 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I get up from my stump and stand with Jaeger and Destroyer. Jaeger is insisting that the Mexican military sometimes drives its Humvees over the border and shoots at the Border Patrol.These people are insane.
"Time to put some Apaches on the border," Destroyer says.
"Last year in June, a Mexican Apache flew from their base down in Mexico all the way into Phoenix," Jaeger says matter-of-factly.
"No shit?"
"Yeah, over military bases and whatnot," Jaeger says. "The sad part is the Air Force base that's down there. They went to scramble jets and they were ordered to stand down."
"Wouldn't you know?" Destroyer says. "They fucking invaded! Holy shit!"
"Yeah, it's almost like they are testing our borders for military purposes."
"Yeah, no kidding."
posted by tittergrrl at 11:28 AM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
One time, Bull was at a gas station and a Mexican man was trying to buy alcohol, he tells me. The cashier asked for his driver's license, but all he had was a Mexican ID. Bull came up behind him. "You don't have a driver's license?" he asked the man. He says the man pushed past and got into his car. "So I'm like, this is easy as fuck," Bull recalls. He called the cops and reported the man for driving without a license. But when the cops showed up, Bull says, they focused their attention on him rather than the Mexican. "What's your interest in asking him if he's driving without a license?" a cop asked him. Bull tried to school the police on his power to make a citizen's arrest and then he left, outraged.
When he came to Arizona for his last border operation, he scooped up some dirt near the border fence, put it in a bag with some flowers, and brought it back to Alabama. He tracked down the cop he'd argued with and gave him the bag. "He was fuckin' pissed," Bull says. "That's when I figured his old lady was an illegal or something."
These guys are just a bunch of Walter Sobchaks hanging out in the desert.
posted by selfnoise at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
When he came to Arizona for his last border operation, he scooped up some dirt near the border fence, put it in a bag with some flowers, and brought it back to Alabama. He tracked down the cop he'd argued with and gave him the bag. "He was fuckin' pissed," Bull says. "That's when I figured his old lady was an illegal or something."
These guys are just a bunch of Walter Sobchaks hanging out in the desert.
posted by selfnoise at 11:34 AM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Is that a place where you only get carded if you look underage? If so his superhero fantasy is harassing a teenager out for some beers. What a badass.
posted by adept256 at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016
posted by adept256 at 11:50 AM on October 25, 2016
the conversations the guys had about their exes and children were honestly probably the most terrifying part of this piece to me. i felt like puking and crying at the same time just reading it
posted by burgerrr at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by burgerrr at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
Okay, so I'm Canadian. If I go to the United States for a vacation, I am permitted to drive using my Manitoba driver's license. This is maybe a minor point, but this unidentified "Mexican ID" could it have been a Mexican driver's license?
posted by RobotHero at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 11:59 AM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
I can understand why this sort of reporting (both TFA and Bauer's previous undercover work as a prison guard) might feel suspicious. Done poorly, one could imagine it being an entirely voyeuristic enterprise, sort of like Cops or that History Channel show about Gangs, or even all those documentaries based off of footage filmed by deployed troops in Afghanistan/Iraq.
And I definitely do think that there's a large amount of journalism that falls into this camp, where the draw for the viewer is mostly indulging their power/violence fantasy. However, I think that Bauer's work here at least, is different. One thing that struck me was how he drew out and provided some detail to the particular beliefs that the militia members had about collapse/shit hits the fan. It seems like instead of passive voyeurism, there's an active interrogation of the subjects' perspective.
posted by phack at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
And I definitely do think that there's a large amount of journalism that falls into this camp, where the draw for the viewer is mostly indulging their power/violence fantasy. However, I think that Bauer's work here at least, is different. One thing that struck me was how he drew out and provided some detail to the particular beliefs that the militia members had about collapse/shit hits the fan. It seems like instead of passive voyeurism, there's an active interrogation of the subjects' perspective.
posted by phack at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
I expected them to be 100% white supremacists, and instead it's like 95%.
Yeah, I had the same reaction when they were talking about the water - it seemed like some people were down with destroying it and others weren't? But I could have just read it wrong.
posted by corb at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016
Yeah, I had the same reaction when they were talking about the water - it seemed like some people were down with destroying it and others weren't? But I could have just read it wrong.
posted by corb at 12:02 PM on October 25, 2016
Did y'all get to the indoctrination/torture part yet? There's a part where they torture and interrogate each other.
The recruits are told to imagine they are out in Arizona and have been captured by a drug cartel. They're put in a stall in a horse barn and subjected to sleep deprivation. "We keep 'em up. Keep 'em hungry," Showtime says. The mock detainees are cuffed to a table sloped at an angle and asked questions like how many people are in their group and what radio frequency they use. Their task is to resist giving any information. "We got a stress box," Showtime says. "We put 'em in there. Stick a cattle prod through the holes. One guy, he tried to turn around and we got him right between his legs in the ball sack."
"Yeah, too much fun," Destroyer says.
I shouldn't have been surprised.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The recruits are told to imagine they are out in Arizona and have been captured by a drug cartel. They're put in a stall in a horse barn and subjected to sleep deprivation. "We keep 'em up. Keep 'em hungry," Showtime says. The mock detainees are cuffed to a table sloped at an angle and asked questions like how many people are in their group and what radio frequency they use. Their task is to resist giving any information. "We got a stress box," Showtime says. "We put 'em in there. Stick a cattle prod through the holes. One guy, he tried to turn around and we got him right between his legs in the ball sack."
"Yeah, too much fun," Destroyer says.
I shouldn't have been surprised.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:09 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Some of this brought back conversations I had with other guys when we were all five years old. Who knew you could act out the survival fantasies and "achully, the most biggest gun is a thirty-odd-six" when you were an adult?
posted by clawsoon at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Whoa, Shane Bauer is one of those hikers detained in Iran. This guy lives on the edge.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
To the extent that anybody's military helicopters were seen moving uncontested across the border in a northerly direction it's likely to be American military units cooperating with the Mexican army in anti-drug cartel operations (indeed, I'm reasonably sure that Mexico doesn't operate any Apache helicopters). Although if they were Mexican helicopters, it's likely to have been something like this, also the result of high optempo on both sides of the border.
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The general rule with such groups is that there's probably at least one or two other people who were either also journalists, police informants, or undercover federal agents. The militia movement is pretty notorious for being very easy to penetrate.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kickingtheground at 12:26 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's like the militia movement is just made up of really potentially dangerous community theater or improv groups. Waiting For Gun-man.
posted by tittergrrl at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by tittergrrl at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Sure these guys seem like a joke. Not too smart, not too organized, not too considered.
It's been mentioned at least a couple of times, again more or less in jest, that they seem like a death squad in training. But that's not a joke. This is what a death squad is.
Made up of former members of the security services, working in collaboration with current members of the security forces, radically rightist, trained, psychologically, to see virtually anybody (on a given day) as an enemy whose life is forfeit (mexicans, jews, government, liberals, blacks, whoever), and disposed to believe anything that comes out of their twisted talk-radio Alex Jones informational hierarchy.
Democracy and society and peaceful living are inherently fragile, as solid and dependable as they seem in the US, and they will always exist at the mercy of and by the forbearance of men with guns.
These guys seem like a joke, but it takes a very few men with guns to tip society over into violence.
posted by TheProfessor at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [58 favorites]
It's been mentioned at least a couple of times, again more or less in jest, that they seem like a death squad in training. But that's not a joke. This is what a death squad is.
Made up of former members of the security services, working in collaboration with current members of the security forces, radically rightist, trained, psychologically, to see virtually anybody (on a given day) as an enemy whose life is forfeit (mexicans, jews, government, liberals, blacks, whoever), and disposed to believe anything that comes out of their twisted talk-radio Alex Jones informational hierarchy.
Democracy and society and peaceful living are inherently fragile, as solid and dependable as they seem in the US, and they will always exist at the mercy of and by the forbearance of men with guns.
These guys seem like a joke, but it takes a very few men with guns to tip society over into violence.
posted by TheProfessor at 12:31 PM on October 25, 2016 [58 favorites]
Hey, he's dual-wielding. That's a valuable skill on the modern battlefield
Also it's 2000 gp to respec. He's probably waiting to see if they buff swords on the next patch.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Also it's 2000 gp to respec. He's probably waiting to see if they buff swords on the next patch.
posted by Sebmojo at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
thirty-odd-six
Thirty-aught-six (.30-06).
posted by zombieflanders at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Thirty-aught-six (.30-06).
posted by zombieflanders at 12:33 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
thirty-odd-six
Thirty-aught-six (.30-06).
Maybe the big strong militia member has the sniffles.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Thirty-aught-six (.30-06).
Maybe the big strong militia member has the sniffles.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:36 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Not too smart, not too organized, not too considered.
Making them all the MORE dangerous ...
posted by milnews.ca at 12:43 PM on October 25, 2016
Making them all the MORE dangerous ...
posted by milnews.ca at 12:43 PM on October 25, 2016
"Look, if Saltflats-"
"Sandstone."
"Sandstone, sorry. Look, if he can use a sword and not a gun then I want to use my weapon of choice."
"But..."
"I mean, it's only fair and American and all. And what's more American than my weapon?"
"It's the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile."
"Yes. And my callsign is Hotdog. I have a Thing going here."
"You can't patrol the border in a wienermobile."
"Sure I can. It's gassed up and good to go."
"What happens if you make enemy contact?"
"I run'em over. I put a cowcatcher on the front. C'mon, Ghost, sir, I thought we went over this."
"I didn't think you would show."
"Well, I did. And you all loved the hotdogs round the campfire last night, so you owe me this."
"Sigh. Fine. But one thing... no playing that damn song through the loudspeakers."
"No promises. It's my Flight of the Valkyries."
Hotdog starts up his weinermobile, drives off into the desert night. Ghost, rubs his temples before popping another aspirin.
"Now I see why the Founders insisted on a Well Regulated Militia."
A man dressed a Ghostbuster walks up to him.
Ghost sighs.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
"Sandstone."
"Sandstone, sorry. Look, if he can use a sword and not a gun then I want to use my weapon of choice."
"But..."
"I mean, it's only fair and American and all. And what's more American than my weapon?"
"It's the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile."
"Yes. And my callsign is Hotdog. I have a Thing going here."
"You can't patrol the border in a wienermobile."
"Sure I can. It's gassed up and good to go."
"What happens if you make enemy contact?"
"I run'em over. I put a cowcatcher on the front. C'mon, Ghost, sir, I thought we went over this."
"I didn't think you would show."
"Well, I did. And you all loved the hotdogs round the campfire last night, so you owe me this."
"Sigh. Fine. But one thing... no playing that damn song through the loudspeakers."
"No promises. It's my Flight of the Valkyries."
Hotdog starts up his weinermobile, drives off into the desert night. Ghost, rubs his temples before popping another aspirin.
"Now I see why the Founders insisted on a Well Regulated Militia."
A man dressed a Ghostbuster walks up to him.
Ghost sighs.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:44 PM on October 25, 2016 [30 favorites]
It's been mentioned at least a couple of times, again more or less in jest, that they seem like a death squad in training. But that's not a joke. This is what a death squad is.
Seconded. The difference between this and an actual death squad isn't that real death squads are all super competant and professional. It's that real death squads really kill people.
On the other hand, there's also a lot in the piece that suggests these dudes don't have anywhere near the sense of impunity that an actual death squad does.
posted by Diablevert at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Seconded. The difference between this and an actual death squad isn't that real death squads are all super competant and professional. It's that real death squads really kill people.
On the other hand, there's also a lot in the piece that suggests these dudes don't have anywhere near the sense of impunity that an actual death squad does.
posted by Diablevert at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
but this unidentified "Mexican ID" could it have been a Mexican driver's license?
Maybe a matrÃcula consular? It's issued by the Mexican Government to its citizens overseas but it is not a driver's license.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2016
Maybe a matrÃcula consular? It's issued by the Mexican Government to its citizens overseas but it is not a driver's license.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:46 PM on October 25, 2016
most meals are prepared with bacon grease or pork to keep would-be Muslim infiltrators at bay.
These guys have Muslims and vampires mixed up or something.
posted by GuyZero at 12:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
These guys have Muslims and vampires mixed up or something.
posted by GuyZero at 12:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe a matrÃcula consular?
Could be, but I also wouldn't rule out the possibility that this "Bull" fellow wouldn't recognize a Mexican driver's license if he saw one.
posted by RobotHero at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2016
Could be, but I also wouldn't rule out the possibility that this "Bull" fellow wouldn't recognize a Mexican driver's license if he saw one.
posted by RobotHero at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2016
but this unidentified "Mexican ID" could it have been a Mexican driver's license?
i mean? do we really think these shitbrained cretins could tell the difference between any 5 random brown people? it's just as likely that it was some ndn dude with a tribal id, which tbh makes their unbearable fucking stupidity utterly hilarious.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
i mean? do we really think these shitbrained cretins could tell the difference between any 5 random brown people? it's just as likely that it was some ndn dude with a tribal id, which tbh makes their unbearable fucking stupidity utterly hilarious.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:59 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
zombieflanders: Thirty-aught-six (.30-06).
Hmm. Now I'm not sure if the conversations I'm having as an adult are any better...
(It was a thirty-odd-six when I was a kid, a mystical thing known by third-hand rumor and a third-hand name.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hmm. Now I'm not sure if the conversations I'm having as an adult are any better...
(It was a thirty-odd-six when I was a kid, a mystical thing known by third-hand rumor and a third-hand name.)
posted by clawsoon at 1:02 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Sure these guys seem like a joke.
i suspect there are people who think they're a joke, too - but you won't read some undercover journalist stuff about them because they're a lot more careful and they know it's not time yet
posted by pyramid termite at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2016
i suspect there are people who think they're a joke, too - but you won't read some undercover journalist stuff about them because they're a lot more careful and they know it's not time yet
posted by pyramid termite at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2016
Massengale said that under his command, life in the bugout would be modeled after ancient Rome. Active, patched members of the California State Militia would be considered citizens, while lapsed members and outsiders would not. "We need worker bees," he said. "You wanna come in? We'll bring you in. You'll be down in the field growing food, gathering wood. We'll be the ones standing watch," he said. Then he added in a loud whisper, "In the houses, not in the tents. Hahahaha!"
My Roman history is a little rusty, but I think non-citizens were called something other than "worker bees".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
My Roman history is a little rusty, but I think non-citizens were called something other than "worker bees".
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:38 PM on October 25, 2016 [24 favorites]
Death squads generally have the tacit or explicit support of the government. I think in AZ, Arpaio fall into this category. At the Federal level? Not so much, assuming Clinton wins.
posted by jetsetsc at 1:45 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by jetsetsc at 1:45 PM on October 25, 2016
That Baofeng radio tip was pretty legit, tho. Just picked one up on ebay for 26 bucks.
posted by valkane at 1:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by valkane at 1:49 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Did y'all get to the indoctrination/torture part yet? There's a part where they torture and interrogate each other.
Kink Camp has got to be cheaper.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Kink Camp has got to be cheaper.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 1:56 PM on October 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
"We got a stress box," Showtime says. "We put 'em in there. Stick a cattle prod through the holes. One guy, he tried to turn around and we got him right between his legs in the ball sack."
"Yeah, too much fun," Destroyer says.
I mean . . .
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Yeah, too much fun," Destroyer says.
I mean . . .
posted by Kitty Stardust at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Whoa, Shane Bauer is one of those hikers detained in Iran."
That rather changes the story, doesn't it? A guy who was (arguably) illegally detained by armed men for crossing a border, reporting on armed men attempting to (arguably) illegally detain people for crossing a border? I mean, it's Mother Jones, so everyone knows the writer's perspective before you even start reading, but still, I feel like that probably should have been disclosed.
posted by kevinbelt at 2:25 PM on October 25, 2016
That rather changes the story, doesn't it? A guy who was (arguably) illegally detained by armed men for crossing a border, reporting on armed men attempting to (arguably) illegally detain people for crossing a border? I mean, it's Mother Jones, so everyone knows the writer's perspective before you even start reading, but still, I feel like that probably should have been disclosed.
posted by kevinbelt at 2:25 PM on October 25, 2016
"Shane Bauer" doesn't sound like a real guy name. It sounds like a guy who picked a name that sounded like a Tom Clancy character crossed with a video game character. Total craziness.
Say what you like about the wall (as suggested by Trump), but at least it's not going to prod an illegal migrant in the "ball sack" while it's keeping him on his own side of the border.
posted by theorique at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Say what you like about the wall (as suggested by Trump), but at least it's not going to prod an illegal migrant in the "ball sack" while it's keeping him on his own side of the border.
posted by theorique at 2:37 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I found "outsiders are infiltrators" (in this case "cartel") mindset oddly in-line with the Indymedia crowd - leftist anarcho-anti-globalists - I kind of followed in the early oughts. The Indymedia folks were at the time (and still, apparently) convinced undercover cops were in their midst constantly. In some cases this was no doubt true but the guy who sticks out like a flatfoot is probably not the one you need to worry about. In most cases nothing prosecutorally interesting was going on anyway: it seemed like the main point was to make the effort seem Real Important. Look! The gummint is after us! This awkward guy on the periphery must be a cop!
Just like "this backpack, tooaccurate for sandpeople well provisioned for anyone other than cartel!" "This kid is a cartel undercover agent!" Without a shadowy enemy the charade falls apart.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Just like "this backpack, too
posted by Ogre Lawless at 2:47 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
most meals are prepared with bacon grease or pork to keep would-be Muslim infiltrators at bay
I wonder if the militia makes special accommodations for its Jewish members?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder if the militia makes special accommodations for its Jewish members?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Indymedia folks were at the time (and still, apparently) convinced undercover cops were in their midst constantly.
Well, in their case, the FBI actually has a well-known history of doing exactly this sort of thing to groups that would seem totally innocuous to outside observers. One of those instances where being paranoid doesn't necessarily mean they aren't out to get you.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
Well, in their case, the FBI actually has a well-known history of doing exactly this sort of thing to groups that would seem totally innocuous to outside observers. One of those instances where being paranoid doesn't necessarily mean they aren't out to get you.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:53 PM on October 25, 2016 [10 favorites]
This is a club necessitated by the Iraq wars. Depressive types, antisocial except for boy play, misogynists, addicted to the rush of warfare. Remember the article a time back about people who just can't live without war, it is the only life stimulant that keeps them away from suicide? Here is one such article, I will try to find the other. The soldier I am thinking of went AWOL because he was coming stateside, and went to work as a mercenary because he could no longer live without the stimulus of violence. The original article.
posted by Oyéah at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Shane Bauer" doesn't sound like a real guy name. It sounds like a guy who picked a name that sounded like a Tom Clancy character crossed with a video game character.
Its the guy who wrote 'The Last Boy Scout' crossed with the hero of '24'.
posted by biffa at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Its the guy who wrote 'The Last Boy Scout' crossed with the hero of '24'.
posted by biffa at 3:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wonder if the militia makes special accommodations for its Jewish members?
To say nothing of its vegetarian members.
posted by dazed_one at 3:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
To say nothing of its vegetarian members.
posted by dazed_one at 3:01 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Its the guy who wrote 'The Last Boy Scout' crossed with the hero of '24'.
And their cousin, Jack Black.
posted by valkane at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
And their cousin, Jack Black.
posted by valkane at 3:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Well, in their case, the FBI actually has a well-known history of doing exactly this sort of thing to groups that would seem totally innocuous to outside observers. One of those instances where being paranoid doesn't necessarily mean they aren't out to get you.
True enough -- the police as well -- and no doubt an occasional encounter by the yehawdis are actually cartel. I think the boogeyman was a far more effective internal tool than reality though, especially when you're playacting Hero of The Republic.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 4:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
True enough -- the police as well -- and no doubt an occasional encounter by the yehawdis are actually cartel. I think the boogeyman was a far more effective internal tool than reality though, especially when you're playacting Hero of The Republic.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 4:12 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ahh. Metafilter. You never let me down. Another severely depressing read.
posted by notreally at 4:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by notreally at 4:23 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
but still, I feel like that probably should have been disclosed.
This is kind of an odd way to put it. The info is right there when you click his name at the top of the article.
posted by rtha at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is kind of an odd way to put it. The info is right there when you click his name at the top of the article.
posted by rtha at 5:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
Oops, post instead of preview.
Also, this was a good but depressing read. I would very much like to go birding there sometime, but as a brown person who doesn't generally carry proof of citizenship in her own country, people like this and the LEOs who tacitly support them make me think it's not a good idea.
posted by rtha at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, this was a good but depressing read. I would very much like to go birding there sometime, but as a brown person who doesn't generally carry proof of citizenship in her own country, people like this and the LEOs who tacitly support them make me think it's not a good idea.
posted by rtha at 5:42 PM on October 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
One has to wonder what the reaction would be if a group of Muslims were out doing this.
the local police would probably bomb a house full of women and children
posted by poffin boffin at 1:51 AM on October 26 [25 favorites +] [!]
Just in case this ^^^ is mistaken for hyperbole
posted by BinGregory at 6:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
the local police would probably bomb a house full of women and children
posted by poffin boffin at 1:51 AM on October 26 [25 favorites +] [!]
Just in case this ^^^ is mistaken for hyperbole
posted by BinGregory at 6:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [7 favorites]
This is a club necessitated by the Iraq wars. Depressive types, antisocial except for boy play, misogynists, addicted to the rush of warfare.
The club necessitated by wars would have more mental health professionals involved.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:35 PM on October 25, 2016
The club necessitated by wars would have more mental health professionals involved.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:35 PM on October 25, 2016
There's a part where they torture and interrogate each other.
This is the only bit I'm OK with.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is the only bit I'm OK with.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:39 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I ask Doc whether any of them have ever spoken to the rancher.
"Nah, I never even seen him out myself."
I was disappointed that the article didn't include a follow-up with the rancher by Shane.
posted by jimw at 10:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Nah, I never even seen him out myself."
I was disappointed that the article didn't include a follow-up with the rancher by Shane.
posted by jimw at 10:00 PM on October 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would very much like to go birding there sometime, but as a brown person who doesn't generally carry proof of citizenship in her own country, people like this and the LEOs who tacitly support them make me think it's not a good idea.
posted by rtha at 10:42 AM on October 26 [+] [!]
What's the version of eponysterical where it's actually really, really depressing instead of funny?
posted by Ghidorah at 11:12 PM on October 25, 2016
posted by rtha at 10:42 AM on October 26 [+] [!]
What's the version of eponysterical where it's actually really, really depressing instead of funny?
posted by Ghidorah at 11:12 PM on October 25, 2016
[Ghost] says the land is directly on the border, so immigrants would have to pass right through it. The owner is a 3UP sympathizer. "That dude's gonna give us free rein. We can build barracks. We can build fucking shooting lanes. We can do whatever we want to the property."Then a little later ...
"Catch fucking beaners," Captain Pain says.
"Throw up a sign that says, 'No Trespassing,'" Destroyer says. "Then we can shoot 'em."
[Fifty Cal] tells us we are going back to the area where Sandstone, Iceman, and I found the water and backpacks. We'll sweep through in five teams. Someone points out there is no way to cross that area without going through private property. "It's gonna be dark," Ghost says. "As long as you guys aren't shooting, yelling, and screaming, I don't think anyone's going to know we're even going across it."Laws. They apply whenever I say they do.
posted by brokkr at 2:02 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
That Baofeng radio tip was pretty legit, tho. Just picked one up on ebay for 26 bucks.
The uv-82s are super useful, and though not very reliable (had the PTT buttons go bad on a few, though they're probably fixable), cheap enough to be basically disposable.
Amusingly I have a radio and earpiece exactly like the ones described, though it's for communicating while running dance music events rather than... that.
posted by flaterik at 2:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The uv-82s are super useful, and though not very reliable (had the PTT buttons go bad on a few, though they're probably fixable), cheap enough to be basically disposable.
Amusingly I have a radio and earpiece exactly like the ones described, though it's for communicating while running dance music events rather than... that.
posted by flaterik at 2:04 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
No surprise the women in the lives of these men have fled. They must have had lives of unrelenting fear, waiting for this barely contained rage to boil over onto them & their children. The one who complained that his ex moved all the time without telling him gave major stalker vibes.
Almost as disturbing is how encouraging all the law enforcement people were. That Latina cop : what the hell?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Almost as disturbing is how encouraging all the law enforcement people were. That Latina cop : what the hell?
posted by Kitty Stardust at 6:46 AM on October 26, 2016 [8 favorites]
Almost as disturbing is how encouraging all the law enforcement people were. That Latina cop : what the hell?
Some of the border patrol guys definitely seemed to be fellow travelers. But for the others: An angry confrontation is exactly what these guys are craving, why give it to them? Stay friendly, you stand a better chance of finding out what they're up to, makes it easier to keep an eye on them. And like it or not, wandering around the desert with an assault rife is not illegal.
posted by Diablevert at 7:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Some of the border patrol guys definitely seemed to be fellow travelers. But for the others: An angry confrontation is exactly what these guys are craving, why give it to them? Stay friendly, you stand a better chance of finding out what they're up to, makes it easier to keep an eye on them. And like it or not, wandering around the desert with an assault rife is not illegal.
posted by Diablevert at 7:11 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Someone show these overgrown children how to play Airsoft so that they can get their military cosplay kicks without denying water to people who may die without it.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 7:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by WinnipegDragon at 7:31 AM on October 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wonder if the militia makes special accommodations for its Jewish members?
To say nothing of its vegetarian members.
Jewish members? Vegetarian members?
Remember, these are right-wing militias. Would-be death squads, except that they haven't actually shot anybody yet.
Right-wing Jews tend to skew toward the punditocracy and commentariat. Right-wing vegetarians ... I'm sure there are some but I haven't met any.
posted by theorique at 8:01 AM on October 26, 2016
To say nothing of its vegetarian members.
Jewish members? Vegetarian members?
Remember, these are right-wing militias. Would-be death squads, except that they haven't actually shot anybody yet.
Right-wing Jews tend to skew toward the punditocracy and commentariat. Right-wing vegetarians ... I'm sure there are some but I haven't met any.
posted by theorique at 8:01 AM on October 26, 2016
thatsthejoke.jpg
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 8:40 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
(It was a thirty-odd-six when I was a kid, a mystical thing known by third-hand rumor and a third-hand name.)
In my part of Ohio, it was a 30-out-6.
posted by slogger at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
In my part of Ohio, it was a 30-out-6.
posted by slogger at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
How many times do I have to tell you? I don't do ops on the fucking Sabbath!
posted by kaibutsu at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2016 [5 favorites]
BP is used to seeing folks carrying firearms, particularly this time of year with hunting season underway. Some agents I've spoken with advise carrying a sidearm as a reasonable precaution. They've never made any fuss over any sidearms my buddies had. I've not felt the need to carry in my thousands of hours hiking and cruising backroads. I've tripped a few BP sensors along the way, usually to be met by an agent blazing down the goat trail on an ATV sporting an impressive array of night vision gear and an amazing rifle that is probably equipped with aimbot. A brief chat and they're on their way. Very little questioning and never an interrogation during these encounters.
Getting pulled over at night is routine, five stops in one night being my personal best. But I drive suspiciously, lots of starts and stops, jumping out of the vehicle with flashlights, looking for nocturnal fauna like inverts, reptiles, and amphibians. And I like the chats, as they offer good tips on what critters they've seen moving where that night -- quite helpful on nights when wildlife activity is minimal. My overall impression is they're keenly aware of activity in the area.
posted by Flippervault at 9:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
Getting pulled over at night is routine, five stops in one night being my personal best. But I drive suspiciously, lots of starts and stops, jumping out of the vehicle with flashlights, looking for nocturnal fauna like inverts, reptiles, and amphibians. And I like the chats, as they offer good tips on what critters they've seen moving where that night -- quite helpful on nights when wildlife activity is minimal. My overall impression is they're keenly aware of activity in the area.
posted by Flippervault at 9:41 AM on October 26, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is a map of migrant deaths on the border. Groups like Aguilas del Desierto go in trips to locate injured migrants and bodies. Many of these bodies are unidentified, so efforts are made to get pictures out of their belongings out in social media, where their family members could recognize them.
posted by cobain_angel at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by cobain_angel at 10:12 AM on October 26, 2016 [14 favorites]
thatsthejoke.jpg
swoosh right over my literalist head :)
posted by theorique at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016
swoosh right over my literalist head :)
posted by theorique at 10:18 AM on October 26, 2016
cobain_angel, that is heartbreaking.
posted by madamjujujive at 12:50 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by madamjujujive at 12:50 PM on October 26, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reading the first three paragraphs, my first reaction is "South Park Fanfic"
posted by not_on_display at 9:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by not_on_display at 9:45 PM on October 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The Intercept: Fatal Migrations
Grupo Beta was founded by the Mexican government in the 1990s to help migrants. They provide counsel, aid, refuge. But, as the workers explained to me that day, their primary task isn’t to help migrants cross. Instead, they’d been dropped on this Sonoran moonscape to dissuade them. To tell them: No. It’s not worth it. Turn back and head home.posted by cynical pinnacle at 1:24 PM on October 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
[...]
Imagine, the Grupo Beta workers told me: You’ve come from El Salvador, or Honduras. Or Chiapas. You’re running from something — crippling poverty, the narcos, the maras and their homicidal violence. Corruption. A broken heart. A failed marriage. Or you’re running toward something: You have family on the other side of that wall, a future that feels so close it no longer requires much imagining. Its shape is visible to you: green lawns and suburban houses, or vast cities dense with women and work and money waiting to be spent. You’ve left your home. You’ve survived The Beast. You’ve been robbed, you’ve been extorted, you’ve been beaten or raped, and you’re here now. You’ve come so far. The finish line is in sight.
Or at least that’s what it feels like.
To those people, the orange-clad workers told me — to these migrants, those crosses in the desert don’t mean anything. They don’t seem real. How do you convince men and women who’ve risked everything and fear nothing that they can’t keep simply walking?
You can’t. But you tell them anyway, knowing that they’ll be on their way at dusk, knowing some of them will end up as crosses to add to the map.
Right-wing Jews tend to skew toward the punditocracy and commentariat.
Right-wing Jews colonize the West Bank.
posted by BinGregory at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Right-wing Jews colonize the West Bank.
posted by BinGregory at 5:57 PM on October 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Bauer on Democracy Now: Shane Bauer Infiltrates Armed Militia "Hunting Mexicans" & Collaborating with U.S. Border Patrol
posted by homunculus at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016
posted by homunculus at 1:10 PM on October 28, 2016
Caminata Nocturna: The Border Crossing Experience
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:12 PM on October 30, 2016
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:12 PM on October 30, 2016
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posted by indubitable at 8:54 AM on October 25, 2016 [8 favorites]