Whiskey wisdom
January 12, 2017 12:40 PM Subscribe
It gets you drunk.
posted by jonmc at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 1:02 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
It goes in, I feel better.
Is there something else at work? I don't know.
*reads article*
Yes, there is something else at work. Lots of something elses.
Yet the effect is still the same.
Left out of the article is the topic of flavor and color alterations. Which I would have liked to read about.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there something else at work? I don't know.
*reads article*
Yes, there is something else at work. Lots of something elses.
Yet the effect is still the same.
Left out of the article is the topic of flavor and color alterations. Which I would have liked to read about.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:07 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I understand that with a single distillation you get some proportion of not-alcohol in the distillate, but the fact that you can taste the grain bill (and, evidently, the yeast) at all has always been surprising to me.
And this also reminds me that I've got an unopened bottle of rye aged in maple syrup casks at home. Might have to crack the seal on that tonight.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
And this also reminds me that I've got an unopened bottle of rye aged in maple syrup casks at home. Might have to crack the seal on that tonight.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:12 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
kafziel: What the article doesn't mention is the amount of tasting—not only by master distillers, but by large groups—which occur before the juice goes into bottle. This will be done to insure a consistent flavor profile from 'vintage to vintage'. Though release is probably the better word, as barrels from different years can and will be blended. (Unless the spirit is 'bonded,' or 'single barrel.')
The production of whiskey is less like wine and more like beer. It is far more industrial than agricultural and not reliant on 'terroir' or weather. Identifying and isolating certain qualities and getting them in the bottle is an expected part of the process.
posted by Time To Sharpen Our Knives at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
The production of whiskey is less like wine and more like beer. It is far more industrial than agricultural and not reliant on 'terroir' or weather. Identifying and isolating certain qualities and getting them in the bottle is an expected part of the process.
posted by Time To Sharpen Our Knives at 1:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
kafziel I'd love to see all this talk about flavor profiles and production methods impacting flavor and everything see some real double-blind testing.
Blind whiskey tasting parties are very much a real thing. I can verify that different whiskeys taste very different. I do not know how much each aspect of the production process affects the taste, though. More testing may be required.
But as for whether or not a more expensive whiskey is actually "better," (as opposed to a wine label effect) well...
Let's just say that choice of whiskey is very much a matter of personal taste. There really isn't such a thing as a better whiskey, just a better whiskey for you. Part of that is, of course, because different whiskeys taste very different.
posted by yeolcoatl at 1:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
Blind whiskey tasting parties are very much a real thing. I can verify that different whiskeys taste very different. I do not know how much each aspect of the production process affects the taste, though. More testing may be required.
But as for whether or not a more expensive whiskey is actually "better," (as opposed to a wine label effect) well...
Let's just say that choice of whiskey is very much a matter of personal taste. There really isn't such a thing as a better whiskey, just a better whiskey for you. Part of that is, of course, because different whiskeys taste very different.
posted by yeolcoatl at 1:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I've been homebrewing whiskey for a few years now, and the results are always pleasing. But with so many variables, and the time it takes to get a result, it's difficult to dial in a consistent recipe for a hobbyist. In other words, this process has given me an enormous amount of respect for even the least of the established distilleries.
Getting the right flavor in the distillate seems to be all a matter of the still itself. Column stills seem to make a product that is too pure (ethanol after all is almost flavorless), so a pot still allow more lower temperature impurities to arrive, bringing the flavor of the grain and the smokiness along for the ride.
We (my cousin and I) make small batches, so we age in 2 or 3 liter medium charred american oak barrels. We get a beautifully amber, smooth as silk result in about 9 months, but boy the angels take their share.
Our next experiment is going to be finishing in barrels primed with port first.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
Getting the right flavor in the distillate seems to be all a matter of the still itself. Column stills seem to make a product that is too pure (ethanol after all is almost flavorless), so a pot still allow more lower temperature impurities to arrive, bringing the flavor of the grain and the smokiness along for the ride.
We (my cousin and I) make small batches, so we age in 2 or 3 liter medium charred american oak barrels. We get a beautifully amber, smooth as silk result in about 9 months, but boy the angels take their share.
Our next experiment is going to be finishing in barrels primed with port first.
posted by OHenryPacey at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [7 favorites]
From the article:
Ask a Manhattanite, or anyone from the tri-state area, and bagels just aren't quite right beyond New York.
New York bagels are garbage in bready form. Montreal bagels are the one true Bagel.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
Ask a Manhattanite, or anyone from the tri-state area, and bagels just aren't quite right beyond New York.
New York bagels are garbage in bready form. Montreal bagels are the one true Bagel.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 1:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [18 favorites]
I wonder if aged staves are what they make those wooden stereo knobs out of.
posted by bondcliff at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by bondcliff at 1:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Absurdly complete? It's weird that 3200+ words is considering a herculean feat of writing and reading.
I would like to give a shout out to the fella who took the time to give me lots of useful whisky info when I was about to pick a bottle for my brother's birthday. I love enthusiasts who love to share their knowledge without being snobby.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I would like to give a shout out to the fella who took the time to give me lots of useful whisky info when I was about to pick a bottle for my brother's birthday. I love enthusiasts who love to share their knowledge without being snobby.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:31 PM on January 12, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'd love to see all this talk about flavor profiles and production methods impacting flavor and everything see some real double-blind testing.
I can't imagine that differences in how something is made could possibly affect the result!
posted by beerperson at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I can't imagine that differences in how something is made could possibly affect the result!
posted by beerperson at 1:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
When wine does, it never holds up, so I don't have great confidence about whiskey's "infinite range of tastes, profiles[,] and qualities" either.
Is this true? I'm not sure it is.
I am aware that all people are bad (basically entirely incompetent) at judging between "good" and "bad" wine. But that's not the same thing as research showing that wine doesn't have great complexity and variety of flavour. Research indicates that our perceptions of the worth and quality of wine are pretty much entirely subjective, but I'm not aware of any research that shows people aren't able to perceive different flavours within wine, or that those flavours aren't there. That's a really significant difference. It's the difference between (on the one hand) debunking the snobby bullshit which says that one person's taste is better than another and (on the other) saying that everything basically tastes the same, so anyone who claims to have a preference is being pretentious.
posted by howfar at 1:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is this true? I'm not sure it is.
I am aware that all people are bad (basically entirely incompetent) at judging between "good" and "bad" wine. But that's not the same thing as research showing that wine doesn't have great complexity and variety of flavour. Research indicates that our perceptions of the worth and quality of wine are pretty much entirely subjective, but I'm not aware of any research that shows people aren't able to perceive different flavours within wine, or that those flavours aren't there. That's a really significant difference. It's the difference between (on the one hand) debunking the snobby bullshit which says that one person's taste is better than another and (on the other) saying that everything basically tastes the same, so anyone who claims to have a preference is being pretentious.
posted by howfar at 1:35 PM on January 12, 2017 [9 favorites]
(Unless the spirit is 'bonded'...
The correct terminology is "bottled-in-bond" since all whiskey is "bonded" to the extent that everyone defers paying excise tax on alcohol by storing/aging in a so called "bonded warehouse."
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:38 PM on January 12, 2017
The correct terminology is "bottled-in-bond" since all whiskey is "bonded" to the extent that everyone defers paying excise tax on alcohol by storing/aging in a so called "bonded warehouse."
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 1:38 PM on January 12, 2017
Absurdly complete? It's weird that 3200+ words is considering a herculean feat of writing and reading.
I wish it were, but sadly we live in the age of the "long read", where pointless unstructured rambles are presented as a deep and insightful exploration of a theme. How about a tax on articles over 1500 words and movies over 90 minutes?
posted by howfar at 1:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I wish it were, but sadly we live in the age of the "long read", where pointless unstructured rambles are presented as a deep and insightful exploration of a theme. How about a tax on articles over 1500 words and movies over 90 minutes?
posted by howfar at 1:39 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I took a tour of Benromach Distillery in Scotland last year. They're a tiny producer, really more of a vanity project, which made the tour extra fun. I was particularly impressed that absolutely all the hooch flows off the still through one little tiny glass tube. Apparently they do their cuts manually, at least in part by simple visual inspection. Like I said, small shop.
That trip was also where I learned the value of elegant, refined light Highland whiskies. I'd understood the taste of the punch-you-in-the-face smoky Scotch, your Laphroaig and the like. But tasting some lighter drinks made me appreciate the more brandy-like Scotches too.
posted by Nelson at 1:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
That trip was also where I learned the value of elegant, refined light Highland whiskies. I'd understood the taste of the punch-you-in-the-face smoky Scotch, your Laphroaig and the like. But tasting some lighter drinks made me appreciate the more brandy-like Scotches too.
posted by Nelson at 1:40 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Benromach is my favorite!
When I wanted to learn about [Scotch] whiskey, I went to the Whiskey Society in Edinburgh with a couple of Scottish friends and did what was effectively a blind tasting (you order there by number, not name, and while there's color coding for region/method you don't know much else about what you're getting), and my friends walked me through all the different types and regions. There is definitely a difference between them. Delicious, delicious difference.
posted by olinerd at 1:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
When I wanted to learn about [Scotch] whiskey, I went to the Whiskey Society in Edinburgh with a couple of Scottish friends and did what was effectively a blind tasting (you order there by number, not name, and while there's color coding for region/method you don't know much else about what you're getting), and my friends walked me through all the different types and regions. There is definitely a difference between them. Delicious, delicious difference.
posted by olinerd at 1:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
ok here;s whiskey. whiskey is distilled beer, ti has a couple different shapes.
bourbon: only whiskey made in america is boudbrnon. it's prety mild flavor, not much lfavor to me.
blonded swhisket: lik johnny walker and stuch, typically mellow, not mouch complexity.
irish or scottish or japanese wihskey: its orobably been aged, will have flavors like smoke and peat and shoes and pain.
ryew: whisket made from rye (the grain, not the bread). rougher, more self-punnjnishing.
oka! go fhave fun, call me if you need uride later.
----me, explaining whiskey to one of my friends over the phone the first time I got totally trashed on whiskey
posted by clockzero at 2:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
bourbon: only whiskey made in america is boudbrnon. it's prety mild flavor, not much lfavor to me.
blonded swhisket: lik johnny walker and stuch, typically mellow, not mouch complexity.
irish or scottish or japanese wihskey: its orobably been aged, will have flavors like smoke and peat and shoes and pain.
ryew: whisket made from rye (the grain, not the bread). rougher, more self-punnjnishing.
oka! go fhave fun, call me if you need uride later.
----me, explaining whiskey to one of my friends over the phone the first time I got totally trashed on whiskey
posted by clockzero at 2:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [31 favorites]
Things I understand about whisky/ey:
1) It will get you drunk.
2) It's good for crying! (Note: Will not stop you from crying, but will definitely make you feel less weird about crying about really anything while in public. And that can be both usefully humbling and cathartic)
3) I like the fancy peat-y Scotch whiskies best.
4) Though it feels like sacrilege to say given that I am both a Southerner and friends with a bunch of fancy drink-making bartenders, I'm still not sold on Bourbon (it's too sweet).
5) In general, it's the only liquor I spring for top shelf and neat (sometimes with single ice cube).
posted by thivaia at 2:01 PM on January 12, 2017
1) It will get you drunk.
2) It's good for crying! (Note: Will not stop you from crying, but will definitely make you feel less weird about crying about really anything while in public. And that can be both usefully humbling and cathartic)
3) I like the fancy peat-y Scotch whiskies best.
4) Though it feels like sacrilege to say given that I am both a Southerner and friends with a bunch of fancy drink-making bartenders, I'm still not sold on Bourbon (it's too sweet).
5) In general, it's the only liquor I spring for top shelf and neat (sometimes with single ice cube).
posted by thivaia at 2:01 PM on January 12, 2017
MetaFilter: flavors like smoke and peat and shoes and pain
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
~ as I sip my Bunnahabhain 12...
Left out of the article is the topic of flavor and color alterations. Which I would have liked to read about.
I was surprised this was left out as well as filtration. Most of the big distillers utilize some amount of caramel coloring. This, as well as cold-chill filtering, are a big issue among Scotland's distilleries, with fans demanding they leave out the colorant and not use chill filtering. I understand the colorant issue, but haven't been able to suss what exactly chill filtering does to the product.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017
Left out of the article is the topic of flavor and color alterations. Which I would have liked to read about.
I was surprised this was left out as well as filtration. Most of the big distillers utilize some amount of caramel coloring. This, as well as cold-chill filtering, are a big issue among Scotland's distilleries, with fans demanding they leave out the colorant and not use chill filtering. I understand the colorant issue, but haven't been able to suss what exactly chill filtering does to the product.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:23 PM on January 12, 2017
"When wine does, it never holds up"
People say this, but when they do they cite situations where untrained people have been set up to fail in tastings. I've seen trained wine stewards identify wines and vintages in double-blind tastings; there really is something to know there, and there really is a wide, wide range of flavors.
People who cling to one or two flawed studies and insist it's all pointless snobbery are really no better than those who dismiss expertise of other kinds.
"It is far more industrial than agricultural and not reliant on 'terroir' or weather."
Er, that's actually not true. The weather in Kentucky -- in particular, the wide swings of temperature -- are one of the major reasons why bourbon ages to maturity so much quicker than Scots/malt whiskies made in Scotland and Ireland.
posted by uberchet at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
People say this, but when they do they cite situations where untrained people have been set up to fail in tastings. I've seen trained wine stewards identify wines and vintages in double-blind tastings; there really is something to know there, and there really is a wide, wide range of flavors.
People who cling to one or two flawed studies and insist it's all pointless snobbery are really no better than those who dismiss expertise of other kinds.
"It is far more industrial than agricultural and not reliant on 'terroir' or weather."
Er, that's actually not true. The weather in Kentucky -- in particular, the wide swings of temperature -- are one of the major reasons why bourbon ages to maturity so much quicker than Scots/malt whiskies made in Scotland and Ireland.
posted by uberchet at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Of course Brian Cox likes Lagavulin (Previously). Thanks to him I no longer mispronounce Laphroaig.
posted by Molesome at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 2:24 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is a huge range of tastes and flavors available. It's been a lean month or two, so I've had to go from drinking single malts to the store-brand blended stuff for a bit. It's the difference between a pleasantly smoky room warmed by a fireplace and a packed nail salon.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whether a blind test can identify a 30-year whiskey versus a newer one, or whether two reasonably similar-in-ingredients-and-age-and-cask-type whiskies from different distilleries are really that different? That, I don't know, offhand.
Having participated in blind tastings of many of these you definitely can. Hell, in one case I was able to tell the difference between three different unaged full-strength (so 62%ish ABV) new makes made from three different strains of barley, made at the same distillery on the same still at roughly the same time. The differences were subtle, but they very much were there.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Having participated in blind tastings of many of these you definitely can. Hell, in one case I was able to tell the difference between three different unaged full-strength (so 62%ish ABV) new makes made from three different strains of barley, made at the same distillery on the same still at roughly the same time. The differences were subtle, but they very much were there.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I understand the colorant issue, but haven't been able to suss what exactly chill filtering does to the product.
People claim that it removes some of the mouthfeel, though personally I think there are enough other factors that can contribute to that that I don't know if you can blame chill filtration specifically; and I've never double-blinded it or talked to anyone who actually has.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017
People claim that it removes some of the mouthfeel, though personally I think there are enough other factors that can contribute to that that I don't know if you can blame chill filtration specifically; and I've never double-blinded it or talked to anyone who actually has.
posted by Itaxpica at 2:28 PM on January 12, 2017
I'm Irish so it disappoints me greatly that I can't enjoy whiskey and look sophistimicated by ordering it in bars but alas it makes me want to punch people in the face so I'm not allowed it. The end.
posted by billiebee at 2:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 2:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
All right-thinking folk like Lagavulin. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a crab-man from the Void.
(Sorry. Leakage from the Chuck Tingle thread.)
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
(Sorry. Leakage from the Chuck Tingle thread.)
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:30 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
At the Glenfiddich distellery years back, they explained aging versus price. By law a batch of whiskey has to be aged a minimum of eight years. The aging process is basically a complicated chemical reaction. There is a point in the long reaction when the whiskey is ready. This can be after eight years. Some batches require longer periods. Twelve years. Thirty years. They said that the whiskey is the same. It's ready to bottle. What you are paying for is the storage costs and for the evaporation of alcohol (for the angels). They claimed that they will taste the same. This was explained to us while standing in front of a display case full of blue Wedgewood carafes full of really expensive thirty year old whiskey. Like in wine tasting, the cost of the bottle has a significant effect on how well it is liked.
posted by njohnson23 at 2:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 2:32 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
At the Glenfiddich distellery years back, they explained aging versus price. By law a batch of whiskey has to be aged a minimum of eight years.
Legally it's three years, not eight, though some distilleries as a house rule won't release any of their spirit earlier than a given age (usually seven or eight) because it hasn't lost some of the harsher flavors you can get from new make (I don't know if Glenfiddich is one of those).
posted by Itaxpica at 2:34 PM on January 12, 2017
Legally it's three years, not eight, though some distilleries as a house rule won't release any of their spirit earlier than a given age (usually seven or eight) because it hasn't lost some of the harsher flavors you can get from new make (I don't know if Glenfiddich is one of those).
posted by Itaxpica at 2:34 PM on January 12, 2017
If you are interested in some recent work done on factors affecting the development of flavors and aromas in barrel aged spirits, let me point you at the work of Bryan Davis @ Lost Spirits. He places a lot of emphasis on the conversion of carboxicilic acids into esters both in the still (where it's hot) and then in the barrel (where they are exposed to lignins and hemicelluose in the wood). His key thesis is that if the pre-cursor acids, which are primarily a by-product yeast metabolism, aren't formed during fermentation, certain types of flavors and aromas will never form.
if you want to go deeper, here's a link to an interesting critique of Davis' work.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017
if you want to go deeper, here's a link to an interesting critique of Davis' work.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017
Having participated in blind tastings of many of these you definitely can. Hell, in one case I was able to tell the difference between three different unaged full-strength (so 62%ish ABV) new makes made from three different strains of barley, made at the same distillery on the same still at roughly the same time. The differences were subtle, but they very much were there.
Congratulations, Clever Hans, you've demonstrated the difference between blind and double-blind.
posted by kafziel at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Congratulations, Clever Hans, you've demonstrated the difference between blind and double-blind.
posted by kafziel at 2:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
All I know is it comes first, the vodka, then lager, then cider.
Then he sings the songs that reminds him of the good times...
posted by Earthtopus at 2:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Then he sings the songs that reminds him of the good times...
posted by Earthtopus at 2:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah metafilter loves to cite (but not really) studies to make all sorts of claims that aren't actually supported. The scoring of wine is the bullshit part, not the part where people can taste and moreover identify wines.
The exam you take to become a sommelier has at every level, except the introductory one, a wine tasting portion where you have to identify: varieties, country, district, appellation, and vintage. Like they give you a sip and you tell them what you just had.
The whole scoring business is something that was invented to get people to buy wine. It exists in the whiskey world but thankfully not to the extent that it does for wine.
posted by danny the boy at 2:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
The exam you take to become a sommelier has at every level, except the introductory one, a wine tasting portion where you have to identify: varieties, country, district, appellation, and vintage. Like they give you a sip and you tell them what you just had.
The whole scoring business is something that was invented to get people to buy wine. It exists in the whiskey world but thankfully not to the extent that it does for wine.
posted by danny the boy at 2:47 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Add humidity to the heat, and evaporation quickly escalates
Is there some paradoxical effect, whereby the presence of water vapor encourages the evaporation of alcohol, or did the author just get this backwards?
posted by mr vino at 2:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Is there some paradoxical effect, whereby the presence of water vapor encourages the evaporation of alcohol, or did the author just get this backwards?
posted by mr vino at 2:52 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
i have never felt anything more deeply in my bones than that scotch and other smokey boozes like mezcal are truly disgusting
posted by burgerrr at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by burgerrr at 2:53 PM on January 12, 2017
Yes! So disgusting! In fact send them to me, and I shall dispose of them for you all.
You're welcome.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
You're welcome.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:54 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
more for the rest of us dook dook dook
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:54 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:54 PM on January 12, 2017
Does your whiskey have an "e" in it? Cuz mine don't.
posted by valkane at 2:58 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by valkane at 2:58 PM on January 12, 2017
Congratulations, Clever Hans, you've demonstrated the difference between blind and double-blind.
Could you explain why sometimes I buy a bottle of wine but don't like it
posted by beerperson at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
Could you explain why sometimes I buy a bottle of wine but don't like it
posted by beerperson at 3:00 PM on January 12, 2017 [4 favorites]
The weather in Kentucky -- in particular, the wide swings of temperature -- are one of the major reasons why bourbon ages to maturity so much quicker than Scots/malt whiskies
Well that and the legal requirement that Bourbon and rye be "stored" in new charred oak barrels. Those spirits get a much larger dose of oak tannin than Scotch which is aged almost exclusively in used barrels, which may be refilled several times before being retired.
In fact, the primary source of barrels for Scotch since the Spanish Civil War when sherry barrels were not available, come from Bourbon.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well that and the legal requirement that Bourbon and rye be "stored" in new charred oak barrels. Those spirits get a much larger dose of oak tannin than Scotch which is aged almost exclusively in used barrels, which may be refilled several times before being retired.
In fact, the primary source of barrels for Scotch since the Spanish Civil War when sherry barrels were not available, come from Bourbon.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:01 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Aside from smoked foods, what other things are predominantly flavoured with wood? I feel like I'm forgetting something obvious, but all the talk of barrel seasoning and toasting has me wondering about putting a bag of charred oak chips in a stew, or roasting a slab of pork on a plank of apple wood. Wait, (googles), yeah that's exactly what was thinking of — I've seen fish cooked that way. I suppose cinnamon counts too.
posted by lucidium at 3:04 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by lucidium at 3:04 PM on January 12, 2017
At the Glenfiddich distellery years back, they explained aging versus price. By law a batch of whiskey has to be aged a minimum of eight years. The aging process is basically a complicated chemical reaction. There is a point in the long reaction when the whiskey is ready. This can be after eight years. Some batches require longer periods. Twelve years. Thirty years. They said that the whiskey is the same. It's ready to bottle. What you are paying for is the storage costs and for the evaporation of alcohol (for the angels). They claimed that they will taste the same. This was explained to us while standing in front of a display case full of blue Wedgewood carafes full of really expensive thirty year old whiskey. Like in wine tasting, the cost of the bottle has a significant effect on how well it is liked.
Of course you'd say that if you're f*****ng Glenfidish, the bud of whisky!
We once had an active tasting club at the office that enabled us to try a LOT of different scotchs at the office (off hours,at our own expense of course). Age will make a diffrerence for the best, the distiller/region too, age will really mellow it out and make it better, but its finicky and too old (> 30 years) can be past its prime. Still... best scotch I've EVER had was a Port Ellen 25 (2nd release), it put all other scotches to shame forever, but its now ridiculously expensive now since the distillery is closed (WHY!!!!!). Also had the chance to try a Laphroaig 30, absolutely delicious and no relation whatsoever with the regular one (which I also like a lot).
When in doubt Lagavullin 16, its sadly a lot more expensive than it used to be, but still my best bang for the buck.
posted by coust at 3:07 PM on January 12, 2017
Of course you'd say that if you're f*****ng Glenfidish, the bud of whisky!
We once had an active tasting club at the office that enabled us to try a LOT of different scotchs at the office (off hours,at our own expense of course). Age will make a diffrerence for the best, the distiller/region too, age will really mellow it out and make it better, but its finicky and too old (> 30 years) can be past its prime. Still... best scotch I've EVER had was a Port Ellen 25 (2nd release), it put all other scotches to shame forever, but its now ridiculously expensive now since the distillery is closed (WHY!!!!!). Also had the chance to try a Laphroaig 30, absolutely delicious and no relation whatsoever with the regular one (which I also like a lot).
When in doubt Lagavullin 16, its sadly a lot more expensive than it used to be, but still my best bang for the buck.
posted by coust at 3:07 PM on January 12, 2017
Is there some paradoxical effect, whereby the presence of water vapor encourages the evaporation of alcohol, or did the author just get this backwards?
It's a matter of temperature and humidity. You'll lose alcohol faster than water at any given temperature if the humidity is high, like in the Carribbean, where they age rum.
In classic multi story warehouses of the sort they have in Kentucky, conditions vary quite significantly at the top and bottom. Generally, barrels aged up top will increase in proof over time (lose water faster than alcohol) while barrels at the bottom will go down in proof (lose alcohol faster than water).
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's a matter of temperature and humidity. You'll lose alcohol faster than water at any given temperature if the humidity is high, like in the Carribbean, where they age rum.
In classic multi story warehouses of the sort they have in Kentucky, conditions vary quite significantly at the top and bottom. Generally, barrels aged up top will increase in proof over time (lose water faster than alcohol) while barrels at the bottom will go down in proof (lose alcohol faster than water).
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:08 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Aside from smoked foods, what other things are predominantly flavoured with wood?
Not sure if this is where you're going, but the smokiness in some whiskeys (Scotches from the Hebrides, mostly) comes from drying the malt over peat fires before distillation. The oak barrels actually add a vanilla flavor (literally, there's vanillin in oak), and I believe the charring is supposed to make the oak more permeable to the whiskey. At any rate, a lot of wine is aged in charred barrels, and you'll taste vanilla and other spices in oak-aged wine, but you won't smell an old bonfire as you will with Scotch. (the fact that this smokiness survives distillation suggests that how the distiller manages his cut is maybe more important than which color the rickhouse is painted)
posted by mr vino at 3:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Not sure if this is where you're going, but the smokiness in some whiskeys (Scotches from the Hebrides, mostly) comes from drying the malt over peat fires before distillation. The oak barrels actually add a vanilla flavor (literally, there's vanillin in oak), and I believe the charring is supposed to make the oak more permeable to the whiskey. At any rate, a lot of wine is aged in charred barrels, and you'll taste vanilla and other spices in oak-aged wine, but you won't smell an old bonfire as you will with Scotch. (the fact that this smokiness survives distillation suggests that how the distiller manages his cut is maybe more important than which color the rickhouse is painted)
posted by mr vino at 3:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's also worth pointing out that the classic multi story warehouse in KY is basically a giant uninsulated corrugated steel shed protecting a wooden framework in which the barrels are kept. And the bottom is open directly to the earth below.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:17 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:17 PM on January 12, 2017
'Our SOLID GOLD HDMI cables are hand-made by blind artisans monks using secret 13th-century techniques that allow our cables to bring out a rich, velvety range of sound and colors that regular solid gold HDMI cables simply can't match.'
This is a ridiculous comparison. HDMI and other digital technologies are based on ones and zeroes. Analog cables depend on conduction of electricity, which becomes increasingly irrelevant after a very low threshold. That's why a $5 cable from RandoCableCorp will sound exactly like a $500 one. Flavor actually depends on ingredients that can have major effects on that sense.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is a ridiculous comparison. HDMI and other digital technologies are based on ones and zeroes. Analog cables depend on conduction of electricity, which becomes increasingly irrelevant after a very low threshold. That's why a $5 cable from RandoCableCorp will sound exactly like a $500 one. Flavor actually depends on ingredients that can have major effects on that sense.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:19 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
New York bagels are garbage in bready form. Montreal bagels are the one true Bagel.
Didn't we agree not to reproduce empirically-wrong, fake-news, hate speech?
posted by lalochezia at 3:21 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
At any rate, a lot of wine is aged in charred barrels
I think you'll find most all wine barrels are toasted and not charred, and usually only on the heads at that.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think you'll find most all wine barrels are toasted and not charred, and usually only on the heads at that.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:22 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
This is a ridiculous comparison. HDMI and other digital technologies are based on ones and zeroes. Analog cables depend on conduction of electricity, which becomes increasingly irrelevant after a very low threshold. That's why a $5 cable from RandoCableCorp will sound exactly like a $500 one. Flavor actually depends on ingredients that can have major effects on that sense.
Flavor actually depends on a billion things other than just ingredients, like "what's in the room to smell" and "what's in the back of your throat to smell" and "what you think the flavor should be" and "what you think the flavor might be", is the thing. That's why it's so easy to taste things into stuff that's not there, and why individual tastings are so wildly variable, easily influenced, and utterly unreliable for any purpose.
posted by kafziel at 3:23 PM on January 12, 2017
Flavor actually depends on a billion things other than just ingredients, like "what's in the room to smell" and "what's in the back of your throat to smell" and "what you think the flavor should be" and "what you think the flavor might be", is the thing. That's why it's so easy to taste things into stuff that's not there, and why individual tastings are so wildly variable, easily influenced, and utterly unreliable for any purpose.
posted by kafziel at 3:23 PM on January 12, 2017
'different things don't taste different' is a new conspiracy theory to me
posted by beerperson at 3:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 3:26 PM on January 12, 2017 [10 favorites]
The hilarious thing about your link is that it actually uses wine-tasting as an example of how their studies can be used to enhance the tasting process, not dismiss it as wholly worthless.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:29 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by zombieflanders at 3:29 PM on January 12, 2017
One thing that impresses me about whisky is its consistency. I mean yeah Glenfiddich may not be very distinctive, but it's still pretty damn good. And they make a lot of it, year over year, and the taste is consistent. That's not easy, although it's got to be much easier with a distilled product.
The thing I didn't have time to do when visiting Benromach was to learn more about Gordon & MacPhail. They're an independent bottler; they'll buy raw whisky from unnamed distillers and barrel age it themselves. That's largely a financial arrangement; aging whisky is expensive so Gordon & MacPhail basically act as investors. Given how important the aging and blending process is I've got to imagine they've made some very interesting whisky over the years.
posted by Nelson at 3:34 PM on January 12, 2017
The thing I didn't have time to do when visiting Benromach was to learn more about Gordon & MacPhail. They're an independent bottler; they'll buy raw whisky from unnamed distillers and barrel age it themselves. That's largely a financial arrangement; aging whisky is expensive so Gordon & MacPhail basically act as investors. Given how important the aging and blending process is I've got to imagine they've made some very interesting whisky over the years.
posted by Nelson at 3:34 PM on January 12, 2017
'different things don't taste different' is a new conspiracy theory to me
how can scotch be real if our glasses aren't real
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
how can scotch be real if our glasses aren't real
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:43 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
That same thing exists in the US, but it's not as well received (usually). "Non-distiller producers" are frequently derided as simple profiteers bottling bulk whiskey made in Indiana with a faux back story, etc.
There ARE exceptions -- Willett started this way, and I think Angel's Envy, too -- but the bourbon boom has led to a lot of really questionable bottles on the American whiskey aisle. Lots of them aren't even "bourbon" legally speaking. (The words "spirit whiskey" mean "this bottle contains bullshit"; if you want real whiskey, look for the words "straight bourbon," which have a specific legal meaning. If you're a stickler for authenticity, look for a distillation statement. If you really want some fun, find something marked as bottled in bond, which means it complies with a law that might well be the first truth-in-labeling measure passed in the US.)
Complicating this is that lots of new distilleries buy sourced whiskey to establish a brand and shelf footprint while waiting for their internal juice to age, with no real nefarious intent beyond normal marketing truth-fuzziness. I'm pretty sure local Houston favorite Yellow Rose did this with their rye, for example.
The "NDP" folks across the pond seem don't seem skeevy -- maybe it's the transparency & etc?
posted by uberchet at 3:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
There ARE exceptions -- Willett started this way, and I think Angel's Envy, too -- but the bourbon boom has led to a lot of really questionable bottles on the American whiskey aisle. Lots of them aren't even "bourbon" legally speaking. (The words "spirit whiskey" mean "this bottle contains bullshit"; if you want real whiskey, look for the words "straight bourbon," which have a specific legal meaning. If you're a stickler for authenticity, look for a distillation statement. If you really want some fun, find something marked as bottled in bond, which means it complies with a law that might well be the first truth-in-labeling measure passed in the US.)
Complicating this is that lots of new distilleries buy sourced whiskey to establish a brand and shelf footprint while waiting for their internal juice to age, with no real nefarious intent beyond normal marketing truth-fuzziness. I'm pretty sure local Houston favorite Yellow Rose did this with their rye, for example.
The "NDP" folks across the pond seem don't seem skeevy -- maybe it's the transparency & etc?
posted by uberchet at 3:45 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
'different things don't taste different' is a new conspiracy theory to me
More "People can't taste as much difference in things as they like to think they can. Especially the people who demand large sums of money for their expertise in tasting the difference in things."
posted by kafziel at 3:46 PM on January 12, 2017
More "People can't taste as much difference in things as they like to think they can. Especially the people who demand large sums of money for their expertise in tasting the difference in things."
posted by kafziel at 3:46 PM on January 12, 2017
I thought Glenlivet was the Bud of Scotch. Oh well, in honor of this thread I'll have a couple drams of The Balvenie 15 tonight.
posted by Ber at 3:48 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Ber at 3:48 PM on January 12, 2017
Flavor actually depends on a billion things other than just ingredients, like "what's in the room to smell" and "what's in the back of your throat to smell" and "what you think the flavor should be" and "what you think the flavor might be", is the thing. That's why it's so easy to taste things into stuff that's not there, and why individual tastings are so wildly variable, easily influenced, and utterly unreliable for any purpose.
This all lends support to the thesis that flavor experiences are rich and subtle in a way that makes them difficult to control in experimental settings. That they may depend on many factors in addition to the thing being tasted does not negate the contribution of the thing being tasted.
It provides no support to the thesis that flavor experiences are largely illusory or confabulated, as debunkers like to suggest.
In general, debunking research on wine tasting etc. shows that the subtleties of wine tasting are difficult to study experimentally. The inference from "difficult to study experimentally" to "non-existent" should be rejected. Almost all natural phenomena are difficult to study experimentally. The subjects of our best scientific theories (e.g. physics) are very much the exception to this general rule, and furthermore it took huge time and effort to figure out how to study them experimentally. The idea that we can just roll up the most obvious study designs, see that they don't find an effect, and conclude that therefore everyone's everyday experiences are made up is bogus. If a design finds a null effect, it could be because there is no effect, or it could be because the design is not able to measure the effect. When we know from things we do every day or more that there is an effect, it is smarter to blame the study design.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of bullshit about tasting out there, just that the available scientific evidence is nowhere near strong enough to justify the conclusion that it's all bullshit.
posted by grobstein at 4:20 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
This all lends support to the thesis that flavor experiences are rich and subtle in a way that makes them difficult to control in experimental settings. That they may depend on many factors in addition to the thing being tasted does not negate the contribution of the thing being tasted.
It provides no support to the thesis that flavor experiences are largely illusory or confabulated, as debunkers like to suggest.
In general, debunking research on wine tasting etc. shows that the subtleties of wine tasting are difficult to study experimentally. The inference from "difficult to study experimentally" to "non-existent" should be rejected. Almost all natural phenomena are difficult to study experimentally. The subjects of our best scientific theories (e.g. physics) are very much the exception to this general rule, and furthermore it took huge time and effort to figure out how to study them experimentally. The idea that we can just roll up the most obvious study designs, see that they don't find an effect, and conclude that therefore everyone's everyday experiences are made up is bogus. If a design finds a null effect, it could be because there is no effect, or it could be because the design is not able to measure the effect. When we know from things we do every day or more that there is an effect, it is smarter to blame the study design.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a lot of bullshit about tasting out there, just that the available scientific evidence is nowhere near strong enough to justify the conclusion that it's all bullshit.
posted by grobstein at 4:20 PM on January 12, 2017 [5 favorites]
I thought Glenlivet was the Bud of Scotch. Oh well, in honor of this thread I'll have a couple drams of The Balvenie 1
Could be too, FYI I'll have both anytime its still good, and as much as I have preferences it doesn't mean everything else isn't worth having.
posted by coust at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017
Could be too, FYI I'll have both anytime its still good, and as much as I have preferences it doesn't mean everything else isn't worth having.
posted by coust at 4:24 PM on January 12, 2017
More "People can't taste as much difference in things as they like to think they can. Especially the people who demand large sums of money for their expertise in tasting the difference in things."
But...the fact that context affects and can even overwhelm your experience of tasting something is a much different assertion than saying that the variety of flavors and profiles attributable to the thing don't exist. The former is something that anyone who's honest with themselves about their enjoyment of the thing would happily acknowledge, and perhaps further go on to question the premise that the thing's inherent flavor is separable from its context at all, whether there's any real value in making that separation, and whether that context dependence might not actually be among the distinct charms offered by enjoying the thing; and the latter is something seems to be a false conclusion favored by people who think they're throwing a wrench in the gears of Big Sommolier or whatever. Curiously, the number of people actually getting paid for anything to do with the thing being enjoyed in these discussions is usually zero.
posted by invitapriore at 4:27 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
But...the fact that context affects and can even overwhelm your experience of tasting something is a much different assertion than saying that the variety of flavors and profiles attributable to the thing don't exist. The former is something that anyone who's honest with themselves about their enjoyment of the thing would happily acknowledge, and perhaps further go on to question the premise that the thing's inherent flavor is separable from its context at all, whether there's any real value in making that separation, and whether that context dependence might not actually be among the distinct charms offered by enjoying the thing; and the latter is something seems to be a false conclusion favored by people who think they're throwing a wrench in the gears of Big Sommolier or whatever. Curiously, the number of people actually getting paid for anything to do with the thing being enjoyed in these discussions is usually zero.
posted by invitapriore at 4:27 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
When in doubt Lagavullin 16, its sadly a lot more expensive than it used to be, but still my best bang for the buck.
I agree.
The closest not-as-expensive alternative I've found is Laphroiag Quarter-Cask (a little less than 2/3 the price of the Lagavulin). The regular Laphroaig 10 is good but lacks the rich full body of the Lagavulin; apparently the Quarter Cask brings a fair bit of that back due to the smaller cask allowing increased interaction between liquid and wood and therefore quicker maturing.
I find it just a bit less smooth and the peatiness is a bit more in-your-face, plus it doesn't have quite the same smell of the sea that Lagavulin has...but it's close enough for the lower price.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree.
The closest not-as-expensive alternative I've found is Laphroiag Quarter-Cask (a little less than 2/3 the price of the Lagavulin). The regular Laphroaig 10 is good but lacks the rich full body of the Lagavulin; apparently the Quarter Cask brings a fair bit of that back due to the smaller cask allowing increased interaction between liquid and wood and therefore quicker maturing.
I find it just a bit less smooth and the peatiness is a bit more in-your-face, plus it doesn't have quite the same smell of the sea that Lagavulin has...but it's close enough for the lower price.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:29 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
"No Age Statement" whiskies are becoming more common as supplies dry up for some varieties ("Say Goodbye to These Beloved Whiskies", eater.com article, Dec. 2015)
posted by kurumi at 7:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kurumi at 7:09 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
Greg, how recently have you picked up a new bottle of Black Bottle? They changed the formulation last year and now it's just bland and awful, unfortunately, none of that Islay fire left. There's a new blend that some guys on Islay have put out called Flatnose which is a strong attempt to re-create the old Black Bottle flavor at a similar price point, but it's not available in the states yet.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Itaxpica at 8:13 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also the best budget whiskey for my money is Four Roses yellow label. It's the Yuengling of bourbon: there are better whiskies, and there are cheaper whiskies, but there is no better cheaper whiskey.
posted by Itaxpica at 8:16 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 8:16 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Hmm, it is nice to be able to read about the brownest of the brown liquors before vodka makes its inevitable comeback.
posted by FJT at 8:16 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FJT at 8:16 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
Something happened with Four Roses; when I was growing up they were bum bourbon. They got bought in 2002 and fancified up. My local expensive liquor store started selling individually numbered bottles for $50 with, like, the corner of the warehouse identified. It's not bad, although the cachet was a bit weakened when I saw the same sort of numbered bottles for sale in the local Safeway. Anyway interesting brand resurgence.
I'm happy to report I have plebian tastes and my favorite gulping bourbon is Buffalo Trace. It's too sweet, it's not subtle, but it's perfectly satisfying over ice. I am literally drinking some right now.
(On sweetness in whiskey; it's not supposed to be sweet. There is no residual sugar after distillation. But sometimes sugar is added back, as caramel for coloration. Sometimes enough is added back to affect the taste.)
posted by Nelson at 8:27 PM on January 12, 2017
I'm happy to report I have plebian tastes and my favorite gulping bourbon is Buffalo Trace. It's too sweet, it's not subtle, but it's perfectly satisfying over ice. I am literally drinking some right now.
(On sweetness in whiskey; it's not supposed to be sweet. There is no residual sugar after distillation. But sometimes sugar is added back, as caramel for coloration. Sometimes enough is added back to affect the taste.)
posted by Nelson at 8:27 PM on January 12, 2017
A lot of the trendy studies disproving things loved by out-of-group types*, like wine tasters, are themselves small, low powered, context dependent and not robustly reproducible**. For every study that shows sommeliers can't tell wine from flavored battery acid, there's another tour de force of analytical chemistry finally identifying the specific flavor molecule that is produced by the bacterial spores in the beard of phlegmatic Scotsman that gives McAuchtenshirebenlachan its flavor and proving people can sense it in vanishingly small concentrations.
I'm not agnostic: I believe both types studies are often right for the given context and subset of the population. No question that a lot of snooty wine experts have a degree of confidence in their discernment totally out of touch with reality. But that's not the same as saying everything tastes the same or assertions about taste preference are a cognitive illusion.
IMO unless someone is actually trying to make money with you, arguing with them about what they are "really" perceiving is generally a losing game.
*Out-of-group, that is, relative to the science loving types and Wait-Wait listeners who spread these studies around. Which includes me I admit.
**There's a generation or two of nerds who think streaks in sports are statistical anomalies, for example, based on a subtle but large flaw in an initial analysis. One day I'll do an FPP on that.
posted by mark k at 9:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm not agnostic: I believe both types studies are often right for the given context and subset of the population. No question that a lot of snooty wine experts have a degree of confidence in their discernment totally out of touch with reality. But that's not the same as saying everything tastes the same or assertions about taste preference are a cognitive illusion.
IMO unless someone is actually trying to make money with you, arguing with them about what they are "really" perceiving is generally a losing game.
*Out-of-group, that is, relative to the science loving types and Wait-Wait listeners who spread these studies around. Which includes me I admit.
**There's a generation or two of nerds who think streaks in sports are statistical anomalies, for example, based on a subtle but large flaw in an initial analysis. One day I'll do an FPP on that.
posted by mark k at 9:05 PM on January 12, 2017 [3 favorites]
Old Overholt (or "Old Overcoat", as the old Wacky Packages used to have it) is supposed to be "the best" cheap-ass rye, but I still prefer Bulleit Rye.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:11 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:11 PM on January 12, 2017
Seconding Laphroiag Quarter Cask. It was my gateway to peaty Islay scotches. It's like drinking a leather jacket, but in a great way.
posted by figurant at 9:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by figurant at 9:11 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
i almost never drink liquor but i will say campfire tasted pretty good :P (altho i guess high west recently sold out!)
posted by kliuless at 9:27 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by kliuless at 9:27 PM on January 12, 2017
I have to say my favorite cheap whiskey is Old Crow reserve. Out when I lived in Chicago it was the exact same price as Old Crow regular, and oh man I think it holds up really well against most bourbons, much less cheap ones.
posted by Carillon at 9:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Carillon at 9:33 PM on January 12, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'll always love wheated bourbons the best. Heaven Hill's Larceny is pretty reasonably priced and tasty, Maker's Mark always does the trick, but man, nothing beats Maker's 46 IMO. It's pricy enough to be a special occasions bottle, but knowing that you'll never need spend more than $40 to get your favorite-ever whiskey is pretty satisfying in itself.
posted by invitapriore at 9:56 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by invitapriore at 9:56 PM on January 12, 2017
I love me some single-malt goodness, but sometimes, for everyday drinking, a blended scotch is just fine. I predict we'll see a resurgence of the old school top shelf brands, like Pinch, and Teachers.
posted by dbmcd at 10:08 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by dbmcd at 10:08 PM on January 12, 2017
Having had double my usual allotment of brown liquor of an evening* I am relaxed enough to say that this piece was an interesing read, and I have laughed out loud at many of the wonderful comments. Love you all.
I was just happy when I found Jim Beam green label was available here after being gone for a few years. It is the one I like and I hadn't found a replacement bourbon. I was making do with Dewars white label, because we had a big bottle.
Funny thing about taste. I seem to be very middle of the road with distilled spirits, but I can always pick the most expensive or hard to get wine in a blind tasting of reds. It will be the one I like.
* That would be about 3 tbsp in a pint of club soda, as opposed to 1 or 2. It was Crown Royal Rye. I am apologise if this makes you sad, but I am a total lightweight.
posted by monopas at 10:12 PM on January 12, 2017
I was just happy when I found Jim Beam green label was available here after being gone for a few years. It is the one I like and I hadn't found a replacement bourbon. I was making do with Dewars white label, because we had a big bottle.
Funny thing about taste. I seem to be very middle of the road with distilled spirits, but I can always pick the most expensive or hard to get wine in a blind tasting of reds. It will be the one I like.
* That would be about 3 tbsp in a pint of club soda, as opposed to 1 or 2. It was Crown Royal Rye. I am apologise if this makes you sad, but I am a total lightweight.
posted by monopas at 10:12 PM on January 12, 2017
I've always wanted to like Old Granddad more than I've ever actually managed to just because it figured into one of my favorite pieces of Joe Bageant's writing, but you know, it'll get you there same as anything else, really.
posted by invitapriore at 10:16 PM on January 12, 2017
posted by invitapriore at 10:16 PM on January 12, 2017
Just watched yeolcoatl's video and I completely could have done those myself. I'm usually not good with subtle flavors, but I'm apparently a supertaster when it comes to cheap bourbon.
Either that, or nail polish remover is not a subtle flavor.
posted by mark k at 10:36 PM on January 12, 2017
Either that, or nail polish remover is not a subtle flavor.
posted by mark k at 10:36 PM on January 12, 2017
I have to say my favorite cheap whiskey is Old Crow reserve. Out when I lived in Chicago it was the exact same price as Old Crow regular, and oh man I think it holds up really well against most bourbons, much less cheap ones.
While cleaning out her late grandmother's house, my wife found a ~30-year-old bottle of Old Crow. Since moving into our new house after living in a travel trailer for four years and our tenth wedding anniversary, we've been through some fancy scotches, some middlin' bourbons, a bottle of limoncello aged in a gin barrel, and a bottle of whiskey from the first craft distillery in WA (as licensed under the 2008 law that legalized small-scale distilling), but we're saving that old Old Crow for a special occasion.
posted by stet at 11:14 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
While cleaning out her late grandmother's house, my wife found a ~30-year-old bottle of Old Crow. Since moving into our new house after living in a travel trailer for four years and our tenth wedding anniversary, we've been through some fancy scotches, some middlin' bourbons, a bottle of limoncello aged in a gin barrel, and a bottle of whiskey from the first craft distillery in WA (as licensed under the 2008 law that legalized small-scale distilling), but we're saving that old Old Crow for a special occasion.
posted by stet at 11:14 PM on January 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I understand the colorant issue, but haven't been able to suss what exactly chill filtering does to the product
It removes a lot of the fatty acids, proteins and esters that can produce cloudiness and sediment in the bottle, so the intention is cosmetic, but many (myself included) believe it can also remove a lot of the taste.
Personal recommendation for trying unfiltered is a good bottle of Caol Ila Blackadder. There are even little specks of char from the barrel floating in it. Not for those who like it smooth.
posted by walrus at 12:13 AM on January 13, 2017
It removes a lot of the fatty acids, proteins and esters that can produce cloudiness and sediment in the bottle, so the intention is cosmetic, but many (myself included) believe it can also remove a lot of the taste.
Personal recommendation for trying unfiltered is a good bottle of Caol Ila Blackadder. There are even little specks of char from the barrel floating in it. Not for those who like it smooth.
posted by walrus at 12:13 AM on January 13, 2017
not unlike the couple in the old SNL Zagats-reading sketches. "Murray rates this one a 92!" he would remark
This gave me triple cognitive whiplash from the whiskey guide Murray, the SNL Murray, and the Lost In Translation whiskey advertising Murray all colliding momentarily and unexpectedly in my head.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
This gave me triple cognitive whiplash from the whiskey guide Murray, the SNL Murray, and the Lost In Translation whiskey advertising Murray all colliding momentarily and unexpectedly in my head.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 1:02 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
If we are talking about absurdly complete guides, let's not forget the Whisky Science blog. Blog posts with bibliography sections, for a start.
(And if we are talking about recent good experiences, for me, nothing can beat this indie Mortlach.)
posted by kmt at 4:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
(And if we are talking about recent good experiences, for me, nothing can beat this indie Mortlach.)
posted by kmt at 4:38 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Mark always does the trick, but man, nothing beats Maker's 46 IMO. It's pricy enough to be a special occasions bottle, but knowing that you'll never need spend more than $40 to get your favorite-ever whiskey is pretty satisfying in itself.
My first Maker's Mark was New Year's Day, 01-Jan-2000, coming back from the NYE2K shows in Atlanta. The wife had ( unbeknownst to me ) upgraded us to First, so I was quite surprised when, 7am New Years' Day, the flight attendant (1) addressed me by name and (2) handed me a drink menu. I hadn't had Maker's at that point, so figured why not.
She then served it in a glass.
I was hooked. Although most days, I just pick up a jug of Wild Turkey 101.
Oh, and my best friend gave me a bottle of 46 for my 50th birthday. Didn't last long. Thank's Charlie!
posted by mikelieman at 6:07 AM on January 13, 2017
My first Maker's Mark was New Year's Day, 01-Jan-2000, coming back from the NYE2K shows in Atlanta. The wife had ( unbeknownst to me ) upgraded us to First, so I was quite surprised when, 7am New Years' Day, the flight attendant (1) addressed me by name and (2) handed me a drink menu. I hadn't had Maker's at that point, so figured why not.
She then served it in a glass.
I was hooked. Although most days, I just pick up a jug of Wild Turkey 101.
Oh, and my best friend gave me a bottle of 46 for my 50th birthday. Didn't last long. Thank's Charlie!
posted by mikelieman at 6:07 AM on January 13, 2017
For inexpensive Islays, get yourself to Trader Joe's and buy the Finlaggan. It's a decent and cheap Islay which we may refer to as our "cooking Islay" after I used it in a whiskey chocolate cream pie.
posted by gingerbeer at 7:47 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by gingerbeer at 7:47 AM on January 13, 2017
If we are talking about absurdly complete guides, let's not forget the Whisky Science blog.
Amazing blog. Been following it for years. The guy doesn't miss a trick. Can be quite a wait between posts, but always worth it.
Also, for those who like subtle and smooth, try some rice whiskies.
posted by Pouteria at 8:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Amazing blog. Been following it for years. The guy doesn't miss a trick. Can be quite a wait between posts, but always worth it.
Also, for those who like subtle and smooth, try some rice whiskies.
posted by Pouteria at 8:03 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
try some rice whiskies
It took me so long to parse this correctly, and I'm still thinking about Rice Whiskey Treats.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
It took me so long to parse this correctly, and I'm still thinking about Rice Whiskey Treats.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:16 AM on January 13, 2017 [5 favorites]
Because every whiskey thread should and must devolve to suggestions on how to get pleasantly drunk for not much money...
During my drinking days, my favourite blend (particularly in Lebanon where it's dirt cheap), was the very idiosyncratic Haig Gold Label. It's an odd drink, with a surprising amount of peat and spice on the nose given its relatively light and slightly sweet flavour. For all that, it is (for those who like it) a surprisingly versatile drink, being an easy drinker neat, but standing up for itself in a cocktail without being overpowering. So worth a try - I've found most people tend to like it, for all that it's a bit of a weirdo blend.
posted by howfar at 8:37 AM on January 13, 2017
During my drinking days, my favourite blend (particularly in Lebanon where it's dirt cheap), was the very idiosyncratic Haig Gold Label. It's an odd drink, with a surprising amount of peat and spice on the nose given its relatively light and slightly sweet flavour. For all that, it is (for those who like it) a surprisingly versatile drink, being an easy drinker neat, but standing up for itself in a cocktail without being overpowering. So worth a try - I've found most people tend to like it, for all that it's a bit of a weirdo blend.
posted by howfar at 8:37 AM on January 13, 2017
New York bagels are garbage in bready form. Montreal bagels are the one true Bagel.
I am very surprised to hear this kind of inflammatory sentiment posted by "Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon"
posted by clockzero at 8:41 AM on January 13, 2017
I am very surprised to hear this kind of inflammatory sentiment posted by "Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon"
posted by clockzero at 8:41 AM on January 13, 2017
That sounds awesome stet, I bet it's gonna be amazing!
posted by Carillon at 8:48 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Carillon at 8:48 AM on January 13, 2017
Because every whiskey thread should and must devolve to suggestions on how to get pleasantly drunk for not much money...
I have found Costco to be worth the membership just for this. It's highly dependent on your local store, and in the bay area each location caters to their community... in SF there's always Fernet, while the Peninsula stores are tequila heavy. But I have always found something I wanted to drink: various High West whiskeys, the standards like Lagavulin & Oban, several Alexander Murray bottlings, the hot new producers like Koval when they first started, etc. And they've been growing their Asian selections lately--they've always had Japanese whiskeys but lately they've been carrying Kavalan.
posted by danny the boy at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have found Costco to be worth the membership just for this. It's highly dependent on your local store, and in the bay area each location caters to their community... in SF there's always Fernet, while the Peninsula stores are tequila heavy. But I have always found something I wanted to drink: various High West whiskeys, the standards like Lagavulin & Oban, several Alexander Murray bottlings, the hot new producers like Koval when they first started, etc. And they've been growing their Asian selections lately--they've always had Japanese whiskeys but lately they've been carrying Kavalan.
posted by danny the boy at 9:44 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Foolishly, I have moved to a state that doesn't allow hard liquor to be sold in Trader Joe's and Costco stores. Granted, the state I moved from was one where you can't even buy beer on Sundays in many counties (and some counties are still completely dry), so it's a step up, but still. Should've done more research before I moved, I guess.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:59 AM on January 13, 2017
cut out the bullshit and just drink the campfire, greg
posted by beerperson at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by beerperson at 10:24 AM on January 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah :(. Fingers crossed they start importing Flatnose soon, I had some when I was in Scotland in August and it's a great replacement (and still only ~20 pounds a bottle)
posted by Itaxpica at 10:26 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by Itaxpica at 10:26 AM on January 13, 2017
(Thanks to Molesome waaaaay upthread for pointing me to this wonderful Brian Cox playlist of 3-second videos. Ahhh. I hope he got to drink his props.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:58 AM on January 13, 2017
Mellow Corn is a lovely and bracing american whiskey, 100 proof, sweet, strong, like waking up at noon and suddenly screaming as the sunlight pours into your eyes too fast. How is it noon already?
yaaaaaaaaaas mellow corn
i haven't had it in a while but the last time i did was at my old house when some friends brought their smoker over and did a 12 hr brisket in the smoker and another in a pit and mellow corn + homemade bbq is just the best combo
posted by burgerrr at 11:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
yaaaaaaaaaas mellow corn
i haven't had it in a while but the last time i did was at my old house when some friends brought their smoker over and did a 12 hr brisket in the smoker and another in a pit and mellow corn + homemade bbq is just the best combo
posted by burgerrr at 11:33 AM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
This argument about the validity of tasting different wines and different whiskies is of great interest and deserves further study. Will have to pick up some research materiel at the shops.
posted by theora55 at 11:48 AM on January 13, 2017
posted by theora55 at 11:48 AM on January 13, 2017
This thread is making me want to crack open my scotch journal. I closed it after I did a quick tally of how much I'd spent on alcohol in a year, and my cheap side, rather than the speyside, won.
posted by eclectist at 3:58 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by eclectist at 3:58 PM on January 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Do we need a FanFare for whiskeys? (And other fine spirits?)
posted by Standard Orange at 10:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Standard Orange at 10:40 PM on January 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
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