Whole Foods = Whole Paycheck
April 29, 2017 5:08 AM Subscribe
Whole Foods may be for sale. Earlier this week, the Financial Times reported that Cerberus Capital Management, the New York private equity firm that owns Albertsons and Safeway, had initiated talks with bankers about making a bid
Whole Foods is valued at $12 billion, but has reported 6 straight quarters of declining sales. Barclays recently advised that Whole Foods had experienced a “staggering” decline in foot traffic that it estimated at 3%, or roughly 14 million customers.
Meanwhile, its competitors have upped their fame. Sprouts Farmers Market was found to be on average 19% cheaper than Whole Foods. Other rivals, including Kroger, have picked up Whole Foods customers with expanded organic offerings of their own.
Whole Foods is valued at $12 billion, but has reported 6 straight quarters of declining sales. Barclays recently advised that Whole Foods had experienced a “staggering” decline in foot traffic that it estimated at 3%, or roughly 14 million customers.
Meanwhile, its competitors have upped their fame. Sprouts Farmers Market was found to be on average 19% cheaper than Whole Foods. Other rivals, including Kroger, have picked up Whole Foods customers with expanded organic offerings of their own.
It's hard to imagine how they could change- the Whole Foods brand is so clearly defined.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 AM on April 29, 2017
Yup. Just went to the "Grand reopening" of my local Star Market; it looks suspiciously more like Whole Foods now.
But, a PSA to hipsters: your favorite corporation is just as full of shit as all other corporations.
posted by Melismata at 6:14 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
But, a PSA to hipsters: your favorite corporation is just as full of shit as all other corporations.
posted by Melismata at 6:14 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whole Foods managed to make itself look even more horrible here in Pittsburgh recently when they were involved in a plan to demolish hundreds of units of affordable housing and evict residents who had been there for decades so that they could build a larger store two blocks from their existing store. They ended up pulling out of the project but only after hundreds of people had been evicted with little notice and the apartment block demolished.
posted by octothorpe at 6:26 AM on April 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:26 AM on April 29, 2017 [27 favorites]
One of the new Whole Foods stores in DC is trying to make itself into a neighborhood hangout, complete with a sports bar. Not sure how it's working out.
posted by cichlid ceilidh at 6:32 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cichlid ceilidh at 6:32 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I knew something like this would happen as soon as Whole Foods opened a new store in my neighborhood. And ironically, they seem like a treat compared to the "it's your privilege to be allowed to shop here" attitude of the other grocery store we've suffered with for years.
posted by lagomorphius at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by lagomorphius at 6:33 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
A Whole Foods post on MeFi practically needs a trigger warning.
posted by Bovine Love at 6:34 AM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by Bovine Love at 6:34 AM on April 29, 2017 [23 favorites]
There's a new urban chique called Bfresh and I did a walk through and it has something of an urban cool whole foods feel but when I got the back it seem, weirdly familiar and I notice a logo, wait that's not new, it's the house brand logo for Star Market/Stop&Shop the local midrange stores. New "cool" owned by a European conglomerate. Just seemed lame after that, I'd shop there if it was convenient except there's a better cheaper local that's crowded but fresher due to high volume.
posted by sammyo at 6:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 6:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The whole foods in Boca Raton Florida is putting in a fresh food restaurant and a bar.
posted by tilde at 6:36 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by tilde at 6:36 AM on April 29, 2017
$12 million? That's gonna be a couple whole paychecks for me, dogg.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the new Whole Foods stores in DC is trying to make itself into a neighborhood hangout, complete with a sports bar. Not sure how it's working out.
I've noticed this is already happening on a much smaller, stranger scale at the coffee / beer bar jammed into a corner of the accessed-only-by-a-parking-garage location in Tenleytown. Some raucous senior citizen daydrinking going on there in the past few years.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've noticed this is already happening on a much smaller, stranger scale at the coffee / beer bar jammed into a corner of the accessed-only-by-a-parking-garage location in Tenleytown. Some raucous senior citizen daydrinking going on there in the past few years.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Whole Foods is valued at $12 billion
That's ridiculous, you can pick up an identical store chain at Wegman's for $8 billion. Less at Costco.
posted by Behemoth at 6:40 AM on April 29, 2017 [85 favorites]
That's ridiculous, you can pick up an identical store chain at Wegman's for $8 billion. Less at Costco.
posted by Behemoth at 6:40 AM on April 29, 2017 [85 favorites]
Cerberus Capital Management is fucking evil. Among other things they own the firearm-manufacturing-and-lobbying Freedom Group. Trump enlisted its CEO to undermine the US intelligence community for him. It's a fittingly dystopian fate for Whole Foods.
(as for being named after the three-headed gatekeeper of the underworld, that "seemed like a good idea at the time.")
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
(as for being named after the three-headed gatekeeper of the underworld, that "seemed like a good idea at the time.")
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [29 favorites]
But, a PSA to hipsters: your favorite corporation is just as full of shit as all other corporations.My local smug, overpriced food emporium is a co-op, so for all their real faults, I think they're probably not. They're also being challenged by a slightly-less-smug, only-slightly-less-overpriced small fancy organic food chain, so I think this is probably a trend that is going to hit a lot of fancy organic grocery stores.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:45 AM on April 29, 2017 [6 favorites]
They deserve it for stopping selling the chicken quesadillas.
posted by winna at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:03 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whole foods has a very defined brand it's just that there are enough competitors in the market now that paying a 20% premium on equivalent goods from another retailer is hard for a lot of people to stomach.
Especially since most whole foods don't tend to cover everything most households use. Which inevitably leads to needing to shop at a different store for some items. Sure you can do weekly shopping at Whole Foods and supplement it with s trip to Costco once a month but that model only covers a limited number of consumers.
Those consumers have increased expectations and additional outlets for their consumption which includes meal delivery providers (blue apron, hello fresh, etc) and services like Amazon Fresh which offer similar selection without actually having to go to the store.
Once people shift to online grocery shopping the needs to have big storefronts goes down and the dreaded hungry impulse buy at Whole Foods disappears.
posted by vuron at 7:09 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Especially since most whole foods don't tend to cover everything most households use. Which inevitably leads to needing to shop at a different store for some items. Sure you can do weekly shopping at Whole Foods and supplement it with s trip to Costco once a month but that model only covers a limited number of consumers.
Those consumers have increased expectations and additional outlets for their consumption which includes meal delivery providers (blue apron, hello fresh, etc) and services like Amazon Fresh which offer similar selection without actually having to go to the store.
Once people shift to online grocery shopping the needs to have big storefronts goes down and the dreaded hungry impulse buy at Whole Foods disappears.
posted by vuron at 7:09 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, where I live in Iowa, just a few years ago our area was served by three Hy-Vees, two Fareways, an Aldis, two branches of the local food co-op, two Walmarts and a Target with a rather limited grocery selection. In the last year, we've added an Aldis and Lucky's (organic market), Natural Market and Trader Joe's are both building new stores, and Hy-Vee has announced another location.
Now, the area has grown, but it sure seems to me that we're in a grocery bubble.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:25 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now, the area has grown, but it sure seems to me that we're in a grocery bubble.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:25 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really wish HEB would expand their Central Market franchise. I mean, it's full of insufferable A-type nouveau riche like Whole Foods, but their bakery & deli section is very good & I think their meat market is actually vastly superior. Also, the prices are a bit better & they don't hawk fake alternative woo bullshit at you at the end cap of every aisle.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:40 AM on April 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:40 AM on April 29, 2017 [25 favorites]
If I'm following this: people are upset that a massive corp (positioned as hippies?) is going to be taken over due to low yield? If so, who cares?
(I have never been to the USA. Do you not have local greengrocers? Does Whole Foods do something they don't?)
posted by pompomtom at 7:42 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
(I have never been to the USA. Do you not have local greengrocers? Does Whole Foods do something they don't?)
posted by pompomtom at 7:42 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whole Foods has a better selection of a few things than my local grocery store (meat and produce mainly), and the produce is fresher. I shop there maybe twice a month for this reason. My closer options are also all giant chains, so other than price it's a wash.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:48 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:48 AM on April 29, 2017
Whole Foods is, unfortunately, my closest grocery store, so I shop there more often than I do some of the other local grocery stores. Usually without buying all that much at once, since it's so expensive. I do like their deli counter for takeout meals; it's hard to find that much prepared food (with lots of vegetables!) for that price anywhere else.
posted by asperity at 7:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by asperity at 7:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Now, the area has grown, but it sure seems to me that we're in a grocery bubble.Hi, neighbor! You forgot the Costco.
I've got some concerns about the co-op's long-term viability, for reasons which I think kind of mirror some of Whole Foods's woes, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lucky's doesn't ultimately make it. Every time I go there, I end up wishing I'd just gone to Hy-Vee instead, since I end up having to go somewhere else anyway to get things like toothpaste and toilet paper. But otherwise, I'm not seeing signs of a grocery bubble. I go to both Aldi's pretty often, and they're always packed. (Apparently Eastern Iowa was Aldi's first US market, which I found surprising but which explains why they're so well-established here.) I think this area is expanding, both geographically and population-wise, and that's driving the grocery expansion. Plus I am ridiculously excited about Trader Joe's, because I think they fill a niche that isn't really being filled by our current grocery options.
Do you not have local greengrocers?Nope. Not that I can think of, anyway. There's a farmer's market in the summer, but that's seasonal.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:55 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've noticed this is already happening on a much smaller, stranger scale at the coffee / beer bar jammed into a corner of the accessed-only-by-a-parking-garage location in Tenleytown. Some raucous senior citizen daydrinking going on there in the past few years.
I would like to hear more about this.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:57 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I would like to hear more about this.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:57 AM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
I am the reason Whole Foods hasn't been making money because I love their chocolate muffins and the two nearest Whole Foods to me don't carry them.
I won't even enter those stores now because I cannot handle the disappointment.
posted by srboisvert at 8:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
I won't even enter those stores now because I cannot handle the disappointment.
posted by srboisvert at 8:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
I have never been to the USA. Do you not have local greengrocers?
In lots of places, no. Huge swathes of America were built after WWII, completely centred around the car. To shop at all you must drive 10-20 minutes to a supermarket.
Whole Food's innovation was cross-breeding the supermarket and the health food store/co-op. The later were mostly a product of the 60s and 70s, basically started by hippies who couldn't get stuff like organic produce or bulk whole grains and yogurt in regular grocery stores. But the 1990s, concerns about pesticide use, desire to support local farmers, health consciousness, etc. had become mainstream among upper middle class Americans; Whole Foods capitalised on this by bringing these types of products to a bigger audience.
Now these trends are so well established that even places like Walmart are offering organic produce.
posted by Diablevert at 8:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
In lots of places, no. Huge swathes of America were built after WWII, completely centred around the car. To shop at all you must drive 10-20 minutes to a supermarket.
Whole Food's innovation was cross-breeding the supermarket and the health food store/co-op. The later were mostly a product of the 60s and 70s, basically started by hippies who couldn't get stuff like organic produce or bulk whole grains and yogurt in regular grocery stores. But the 1990s, concerns about pesticide use, desire to support local farmers, health consciousness, etc. had become mainstream among upper middle class Americans; Whole Foods capitalised on this by bringing these types of products to a bigger audience.
Now these trends are so well established that even places like Walmart are offering organic produce.
posted by Diablevert at 8:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [17 favorites]
We've just moved away from Berkeley, CA, which has been hard in a number of ways but among the toughest is moving away from the world's greatest grocery store (and ur Whole Foods): Berkeley Bowl.
posted by notyou at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
posted by notyou at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2017 [12 favorites]
I assume these guys are Nazi union breakers who want to drink the blood of proles on a scale that makes the current owners look pleasant?
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:22 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
On June 11, 2016 two dozen people gathered in front of a Whole Foods Market in Downtown Sarasota to protest the anticipated destruction of 4.5 acres of protected wetlands. The grocery store chain, which lists “environmental stewardship” as one of its core values, has purchased the land in order to replace it with a parking lot. Protesters marched through the busy downtown farmers’ market chanting “Whole Foods, leave our wetlands alone!” and “Whole Foods isn’t wholesome!”
OF COURSE WHOLE FOODS WON!! GRRRRRRR
Settlement reached, Whole Foods can build on University Parkway wetlands
posted by robbyrobs at 8:27 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
OF COURSE WHOLE FOODS WON!! GRRRRRRR
Settlement reached, Whole Foods can build on University Parkway wetlands
posted by robbyrobs at 8:27 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
There's one opening up here and I'm all "Really, you dumb motherfuckers? We have Wegmans. The fuck do we need you for?"
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:43 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
Having worked at WFM for a few years and shopped there for many, I can say that the CEO is an asshole, and team members' salary/benefits situation is not ideal, though, in many cases, it's much better than comparable jobs in the area would offer.
However, should a PE firm buy it? Look for much "right-sizing" and "restructuring" to squeeze profits out and push dividends up until it can be flipped. And look for workers' rights/salaries/benefits not to be a priority, to put it mildly.
CEO John Mackey is a "libertarian" union-buster, but, as co-founder, WFM, for good or ill, is his baby. Under PE ownership, if any of the old-school Whole Foods spirit and quality survive a takeover, I'll be surprised, sad to say.
Though my local WFM has declined in quality over the last 10 years (once they figured out that they can sell just as much cheese, just as much wine, just as much pretty much everything without going the extra mile to offer classes and recommendations or to have informed, engaged customer service), as noted above, the meat and fish and produce selection is way better than that available at Safeway or TJ.
WFM (originally, Fresh Fields here) started out, in my view, combining the best elements of a Dean & DeLuca with a college town food co-op. Now, it's just a good organic supermarket. I wonder how long even that'll hold.
posted by the sobsister at 8:48 AM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
However, should a PE firm buy it? Look for much "right-sizing" and "restructuring" to squeeze profits out and push dividends up until it can be flipped. And look for workers' rights/salaries/benefits not to be a priority, to put it mildly.
CEO John Mackey is a "libertarian" union-buster, but, as co-founder, WFM, for good or ill, is his baby. Under PE ownership, if any of the old-school Whole Foods spirit and quality survive a takeover, I'll be surprised, sad to say.
Though my local WFM has declined in quality over the last 10 years (once they figured out that they can sell just as much cheese, just as much wine, just as much pretty much everything without going the extra mile to offer classes and recommendations or to have informed, engaged customer service), as noted above, the meat and fish and produce selection is way better than that available at Safeway or TJ.
WFM (originally, Fresh Fields here) started out, in my view, combining the best elements of a Dean & DeLuca with a college town food co-op. Now, it's just a good organic supermarket. I wonder how long even that'll hold.
posted by the sobsister at 8:48 AM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
the working conditions at WH are good and the employees are happy.
Having worked there until a year ago, I must question your premises.
posted by EarBucket at 8:50 AM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Having worked there until a year ago, I must question your premises.
posted by EarBucket at 8:50 AM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]
Here in the greater Ann Arbor area I have the distinction (?) of not only shopping at Whole Foods, but having a favorite Whole Foods since we have two (the hot bar is better at Cranbrook). Like rainydayfilms, I love Whole Foods for the produce, meat, and fish. It is more expensive than the local Krogers or Meijers and I can see it would be difficult to feed a family from there, but for just me it is an acceptable price, and I find that I can eat less if the food is good quality. And in Ann Arbor, WF is actually rather middle of the road. If you really want to go all out you go to Monahan's Fish Market and Zingerman's Deli and Argus Farm Stop.
I can't see WF ever being my one-stop shop spot but I'll be sad if the quality of the food or service suffer due to the takeover.
posted by Preserver at 8:52 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I can't see WF ever being my one-stop shop spot but I'll be sad if the quality of the food or service suffer due to the takeover.
posted by Preserver at 8:52 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
"We have Wegmans. The fuck do we need you for?"
One of the things I like(d) about WFM is that there is/was some sense of stewardship, of not carrying products that had unhealthy ingredients, for example. While Wegmans is a good supermarket, on my few visits (too far), I've never gotten a sense of corporate responsibility beyond ensuring that the aisles and fire exits aren't blocked.
posted by the sobsister at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
One of the things I like(d) about WFM is that there is/was some sense of stewardship, of not carrying products that had unhealthy ingredients, for example. While Wegmans is a good supermarket, on my few visits (too far), I've never gotten a sense of corporate responsibility beyond ensuring that the aisles and fire exits aren't blocked.
posted by the sobsister at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
robbyrobs, so they paved paradise, put up a parking lot?
posted by aniola at 8:58 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by aniola at 8:58 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
My local co-op has been building store after store as Whole Foods apparently languishes.
If WF disappears, I guess a more effective competitor might arise in their stead, but I doubt it. The evidently carved in stone need to generate a big profit and pay huge executive salaries requires prices that are so much higher that corporations virtually cannot compete with a well run co-op.
posted by jamjam at 8:59 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
If WF disappears, I guess a more effective competitor might arise in their stead, but I doubt it. The evidently carved in stone need to generate a big profit and pay huge executive salaries requires prices that are so much higher that corporations virtually cannot compete with a well run co-op.
posted by jamjam at 8:59 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
So there are 20 extant Whole Foods in my state, and two mentioned in the article that recently closed. I've been to five in the state ever, including both of the closures.
I'm not sure whether to feel demographically targeted or personally responsible.
posted by 7segment at 9:30 AM on April 29, 2017
I'm not sure whether to feel demographically targeted or personally responsible.
posted by 7segment at 9:30 AM on April 29, 2017
The evidently carved in stone need to generate a big profit and pay huge executive salaries requires prices that are so much higher that corporations virtually cannot compete with a well run co-op.
Actually, the grocery industry has extremely small margins, usually 1-3%. It's easy for a corporation to "compete" with a co-op because the corporation can just slash prices until the co-op goes out of business. Milwaukee has this going on right now--it's a crazy hot grocery market.
posted by Slinga at 9:37 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Actually, the grocery industry has extremely small margins, usually 1-3%. It's easy for a corporation to "compete" with a co-op because the corporation can just slash prices until the co-op goes out of business. Milwaukee has this going on right now--it's a crazy hot grocery market.
posted by Slinga at 9:37 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Wasn't there a rumor a few weeks ago that Albertsons/Safeway were looking to buy Sprouts? I had already started to prepare myself for not being able to shop at Sprouts anymore.
I generally only go to Whole Foods when Sprouts is out of a particular tea I like. At Whole Foods the very same tea is remarkably more expensive for no apparent reason other than I guess it includes the cachet of having been purchased at Whole Foods.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:43 AM on April 29, 2017
I generally only go to Whole Foods when Sprouts is out of a particular tea I like. At Whole Foods the very same tea is remarkably more expensive for no apparent reason other than I guess it includes the cachet of having been purchased at Whole Foods.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:43 AM on April 29, 2017
A good variety of cheeses is the vital thing that Whole Foods provides where I live (Miami), and I suspect this may be the case for a lot of smaller and medium-sized US cities. Even Miami, which is big and diverse when you take the whole metro area into account, only has a couple other places and they tend to be wildly overpriced (such as Marky's, where the oligarchs buy their provisions).
We do our shopping at Whole Foods fairly often, but that's because it's the only supermarket within walking distance. And it's convenient for my wife to pick up something from their modestly-priced churrasco counter on her walk home from work when we don't feel like cooking. Other than that I can take 'em or leave 'em.
posted by theory at 9:44 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
We do our shopping at Whole Foods fairly often, but that's because it's the only supermarket within walking distance. And it's convenient for my wife to pick up something from their modestly-priced churrasco counter on her walk home from work when we don't feel like cooking. Other than that I can take 'em or leave 'em.
posted by theory at 9:44 AM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
ROU_Xenophobe - my thoughts exactly. I feel like their feasibility study accounted for Wegmans as just another grocery store, completely ignoring not just what they sell but the utter fannish devotion folks in this area have for Wegmans.
posted by okayokayigive at 9:49 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by okayokayigive at 9:49 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
hawk fake alternative woo bullshit at you at the end cap of every aisle.
This is why I won't go in a Whole Foods store, period.
posted by spitbull at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is why I won't go in a Whole Foods store, period.
posted by spitbull at 10:18 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Whole Foods is definitely the best grocery store in our neck of the woods (Greater Boston). And yes, we have a Wegmans now. The produce and meat at Wegmans are definitely inferior to the produce and meat at Whole Foods and not at all cheaper.
I don't get the Whole Foods hate, but my other option is a small local chain with high prices and questionable quality or a Star Market, which is cheaper but doesn't carry most of the things I want to buy.
Yes, there is woo at the end of the aisles. I happily ignore the woo and go about my day, much like I ignore the tabloids at other grocery stores.
posted by lydhre at 10:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
I don't get the Whole Foods hate, but my other option is a small local chain with high prices and questionable quality or a Star Market, which is cheaper but doesn't carry most of the things I want to buy.
Yes, there is woo at the end of the aisles. I happily ignore the woo and go about my day, much like I ignore the tabloids at other grocery stores.
posted by lydhre at 10:38 AM on April 29, 2017 [8 favorites]
Funny you mention Lidl, because then you have to talk about ALDI. Lidl and ALDI are probably the biggest threat to WFM at this stage in the game. They're spending billions to refresh stores and expand their footprint in the USA.
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Our WF has a sausage and pierogi bar but then again, it is Cleveland.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:07 AM on April 29, 2017 [7 favorites]
The aforementioned Pittsburgh Whole Foods that was implicated in kicking out a bunch of low income seniors from their homes is within 2 miles of a Trader Joe's, an Aldi's, two local chain groceries, one of which was upgraded to a more upscale concept several years ago (I don't go there because I find it actually overwhelming, it's so massive), the hippie food co-op that's been there for forty years, and a Target that sells groceries. It's ridiculous. Whatever the opposite of a food desert is, this is it. Ere also just a couple miles on the other direction to the city's wholesale district with the actual wooden floor stores that WF is a simulacrum of. There's no reason to go to WF unless you are looking for something super specific (I do go there for one thing: arctic char from the seafood counter--the fishmongers in the wholesale district get it in only very occasionally and I prefer its sustainability over salmon) or are really just into being the type of person who shops at Whole Foods. Given that the parking lot is like Thunderdome on weekends, they have no shortage of customers, but I feel like we're at peak grocery here.
We go to the co-op (been members for twenty years) and Trader Joe's. Which is also Thunderdome on the weekends but I can afford the food. (It was the first TJs in our neck of the woods and I swear to god people come to be tourists, it's weird.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
We go to the co-op (been members for twenty years) and Trader Joe's. Which is also Thunderdome on the weekends but I can afford the food. (It was the first TJs in our neck of the woods and I swear to god people come to be tourists, it's weird.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:10 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Kroger's, Aldi, and County Market. I only WISH I had an opportunity to whine about TJ's being too busy or Whole Foods not carrying chocolate muffins. The occasional Farmer's Market is clear across town and I don't drive.
So, yeah, first world problems, people.
posted by Samizdata at 11:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
So, yeah, first world problems, people.
posted by Samizdata at 11:36 AM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lidl and ALDI are probably the biggest threat to WFM at this stage in the game.That seems counterintuitive to me. I like Aldi's a lot and shop there weekly, but their appeal seems to me to be kind of the opposite of Whole Foods'. It's cheap because of bare-bones service, minimal selection, and everything is pre-packaged. They're tweaking it by doing things like adding more organic produce, which is great, but they'd have to change the whole model to compete with WF.
Interesting about Lidl. I don't know if there is room for two Aldi's in the US market.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:41 AM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Once WFM started having to respond to the market, all their ethics were now up for negotiation. If they wanted to really survive, they would delist and go back to being private. Then they could do what they said their ethics told them were right, and not worry about turning the right amount of profit every quarter.
The fact that they don't tells me they were never that attached to their ethics as they said they were. Which is too bad, because I really believed them for years.
And Walter Robb being forced out was what convinced me they were doomed. He was the sane, compassionate one.
posted by greermahoney at 11:46 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
The fact that they don't tells me they were never that attached to their ethics as they said they were. Which is too bad, because I really believed them for years.
And Walter Robb being forced out was what convinced me they were doomed. He was the sane, compassionate one.
posted by greermahoney at 11:46 AM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
We've got an imperfect but decent natural foods chain here on the west coast - New Seasons (includes New Leaf). They're pretty proud of being a B corp.
posted by aniola at 12:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by aniola at 12:04 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is some group of people who seem to badmouth those going to WF as hippies. Not so. I go there from time to time and find a very mixed group of fairly wealthy people, middle class folks, and yes, those who seem rather poor. They are frully aware of the high prices they pay to shop there, but that seems not to deter them.
posted by Postroad at 12:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Postroad at 12:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
In my normal shopping area (a subsection of the peninsula in the SF Bay Area) there are two Whole Foods that I'd count as at best the fifth in a list of places to get good quality stuff, so very easy to boycott. OTOH the other stores I go to are getting my patronage because of high quality fresh produce, pricey or not, so I'm sure in some areas I'd be shopping at Whole Foods out of a lack of options. Crappy CEO and anti-union policy or not.
If I'm following this: people are upset that a massive corp (positioned as hippies?) is going to be taken over due to low yield? If so, who cares?
I think no one at all is upset? The article quotes a bunch of people shrugging or volunteering why Whole Foods sucks, and at least half the posts here are expressing some form of schadenfreude.
It's a big chain and big brand here (doubly so among the US MeFite's demographic) so its notable for that reason.
posted by mark k at 12:20 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
If I'm following this: people are upset that a massive corp (positioned as hippies?) is going to be taken over due to low yield? If so, who cares?
I think no one at all is upset? The article quotes a bunch of people shrugging or volunteering why Whole Foods sucks, and at least half the posts here are expressing some form of schadenfreude.
It's a big chain and big brand here (doubly so among the US MeFite's demographic) so its notable for that reason.
posted by mark k at 12:20 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
There's no mention of Mariano's in all this discussion. The past few years have seen them spring up like weeds in Chicago - and they have great produce, meat, and cheese departments, along with fresh baked goods, a sushi bar, and standard grocery fare. Are they not national?
posted by tzikeh at 12:53 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by tzikeh at 12:53 PM on April 29, 2017
[hey so I'm about to brag about a thing that only exists in the bay area, so if you don't have time/energy for that, uhh give this a pass]
> I love Whole Foods because it's enjoyable to shop there. It smells good, the aesthetics are nice, and they sell a good variety of fancy cheeses at price points I can sometimes handle.
So my brain skipped a little when I read this, cause the main grocery store I go to is Berkeley Bowl, and as a result Whole Foods is a place I only find myself in when I absolutely positively can't be bothered to bike up to Berkeley. Because I've been conditioned to find Berkeley Bowl normal, when I walk into Whole Foods I don't think "it smells good, the aesthetics are nice, and they sell a good variety of fancy cheeses at price points I can sometimes handle." Instead I think "it doesn't have that great every-type-of-citrus-fruit-in-the-world smell, the aesthetics are spare and sort of just off, the selection of cheeses and produce is kinda bad, but sometimes you can find something decent, and once in a blue moon it's almost as cheap as it is at berkeley bowl. but at least it's not crowded."
I mean, the Bay Area is super messed up in a lot of ways — even with rent control I'm paying a genuinely atrocious amount of money to live in a literal shack that almost certainly wouldn't be fit for human habitation in a place where weather exists, and getting around without a car is extremely difficult unless you have no reason to ever go anywhere bart doesn't (and bart doesn't go that many places), and the cops are pretty much all sociopaths — but damn if we don't have grocery stores figured out. If someone else (Sprouts, maybe? The one in Oakland is decent) figures out how to set up legit high-quality markets nationwide, Whole Foods won't be able to get away with anything like their current levels of kinda-crapness.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:58 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
> I love Whole Foods because it's enjoyable to shop there. It smells good, the aesthetics are nice, and they sell a good variety of fancy cheeses at price points I can sometimes handle.
So my brain skipped a little when I read this, cause the main grocery store I go to is Berkeley Bowl, and as a result Whole Foods is a place I only find myself in when I absolutely positively can't be bothered to bike up to Berkeley. Because I've been conditioned to find Berkeley Bowl normal, when I walk into Whole Foods I don't think "it smells good, the aesthetics are nice, and they sell a good variety of fancy cheeses at price points I can sometimes handle." Instead I think "it doesn't have that great every-type-of-citrus-fruit-in-the-world smell, the aesthetics are spare and sort of just off, the selection of cheeses and produce is kinda bad, but sometimes you can find something decent, and once in a blue moon it's almost as cheap as it is at berkeley bowl. but at least it's not crowded."
I mean, the Bay Area is super messed up in a lot of ways — even with rent control I'm paying a genuinely atrocious amount of money to live in a literal shack that almost certainly wouldn't be fit for human habitation in a place where weather exists, and getting around without a car is extremely difficult unless you have no reason to ever go anywhere bart doesn't (and bart doesn't go that many places), and the cops are pretty much all sociopaths — but damn if we don't have grocery stores figured out. If someone else (Sprouts, maybe? The one in Oakland is decent) figures out how to set up legit high-quality markets nationwide, Whole Foods won't be able to get away with anything like their current levels of kinda-crapness.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 12:58 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I mean, the Bay Area is super messed up in a lot of ways.... but damn if we don't have grocery stores figured out.I guess I wonder how much of that is due to stuff that can't be transplanted, like proximity to some of the best year-round agriculture in the world and a critical mass of people with gobs of disposable income. I'm deeply envious of Bay Area food culture, but I'm not sure that it's possible to create something comparable in many other parts of the country, which is not to say that we couldn't do a lot better.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:12 PM on April 29, 2017 [13 favorites]
That's a shame. My local Safeway really went downhill when they took over a year or two ago. I don't go to WF much because the parking structure at my local is a nightmare and I always feel underdressed. I still miss Alfalfas from when they were absorbed by Wild Oats and they eaten up by Whole Foods. Oh well, cycle of life I guess.
I really hope they leave Sprouts alone, I like Sprouts and their employees seem happy.
posted by BoscosMom at 1:17 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I really hope they leave Sprouts alone, I like Sprouts and their employees seem happy.
posted by BoscosMom at 1:17 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The Bay Area gets the overall-best produce in North America, but as I recall there are water politics and farming politics that go into enabling that. The NYC green markets come close but even Alice Waters as one of the leading culinary authorities (ok, add grain of salt here) says, it's not quite the same level. The fact that it's been pretty much that way as a produce mecca (for both consumers and aspiring cooks), literally, decades says to me that the problem is large swaths of the world is dominated by farming structures and practices that, for deep political/economic reasons, just cannot obtain the same quality of results. And it's kind of an injustice, really; it's not just geographical limitations.
Now if you look at produce in the rest of the world, of course you can get great local ingredients.
And it's funny because as great California produce is, there are sometimes are articles (I believe Mark Bittman wrote one a couple years back?) that go into how the structural issues there present instability and problems too.
posted by polymodus at 1:18 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Now if you look at produce in the rest of the world, of course you can get great local ingredients.
And it's funny because as great California produce is, there are sometimes are articles (I believe Mark Bittman wrote one a couple years back?) that go into how the structural issues there present instability and problems too.
posted by polymodus at 1:18 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Definitely the "everything grows in California" thing is a factor, and so replicating Berkeley Bowl anywhere else would require a much higher carbon load than Berkeley Bowl's, and definitely the variety they stock requires a large (and diverse) population to support, but I don't think "gobs of disposable income" is necessary — I mean, most people here are kind of broke because most people rent, and the landlords here rob us blind.. Berkeley Bowl is... well, kind of cheap for a lot of things, especially when you compare it to Whole Foods.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 1:21 PM on April 29, 2017
That seems counterintuitive to me. I like Aldi's a lot and shop there weekly, but their appeal seems to me to be kind of the opposite of Whole Foods'.
In my white-bread upper middle community, I've seen the attitude about ALDI switch from "this is where poor people shop" to "you know, it's the same food in no-frills packaging and merchandising". They've truly broken though in the minds of a lot of shoppers.
For those that visited WFM because what they desired in their food was too niche for the major chains, like organic and gluten-free, suddenly it's in every store and it's mainstream. And if you can get that stuff from ALDI for 50-60% of the WFM price for a few atmospheric tradeoffs, there's no counterintuition going on at all.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:37 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
In my white-bread upper middle community, I've seen the attitude about ALDI switch from "this is where poor people shop" to "you know, it's the same food in no-frills packaging and merchandising". They've truly broken though in the minds of a lot of shoppers.
For those that visited WFM because what they desired in their food was too niche for the major chains, like organic and gluten-free, suddenly it's in every store and it's mainstream. And if you can get that stuff from ALDI for 50-60% of the WFM price for a few atmospheric tradeoffs, there's no counterintuition going on at all.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:37 PM on April 29, 2017 [5 favorites]
I come by my WFM hate honestly. I was friends with folks who worked at Wheatsville Food Co-op in Austin in the late 80s when Mackey came to town.
posted by spitbull at 1:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 1:47 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
There is no Wegmans in Philadelphia, and grocery stores in the city tend to be bodegas or dispiriting discount stuff (we have an Aldi around the corner from me and I can't get much there that's actually food). Having a Whole Foods in walking distance is like living around the corner from Heaven, and was part of the justification for moving to the area we did. It's expensive, but it's how I keep the weight off.
posted by Peach at 2:58 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by Peach at 2:58 PM on April 29, 2017
The Whole Foods near El Segundo just opened up a Kogi BBQ stand inside the store.
Also, their hot food bar breakfast game is pretty good.
It's hard for me to imagine regularly buying groceries there, but as long as one of those two things are true, they will sometimes be receiving my moneys.
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:36 PM on April 29, 2017
Also, their hot food bar breakfast game is pretty good.
It's hard for me to imagine regularly buying groceries there, but as long as one of those two things are true, they will sometimes be receiving my moneys.
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:36 PM on April 29, 2017
Whole Foods is definitely the best grocery store in our neck of the woods (Greater Boston). And yes, we have a Wegmans now. The produce and meat at Wegmans are definitely inferior to the produce and meat at Whole Foods and not at all cheaper.
Not sure which WF you patronize, but in my anecdotal experience this couldn't be further from the truth. WF has sold me rancid, overpriced seafood on several occasions, and is the only store to routinely err at checkout in the store's favor. Organic produce is literally double the price compared to Wegmans. Wegmans isn't perfect by any means -- a lot of the times the things I'm looking for simply aren't in stock -- but I can still get 80-90% of my grocery list there, vs. 50-60% at Star Market and the like (or 90-100% at WF, at roughly 1.5x the price).
posted by Behemoth at 3:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not sure which WF you patronize, but in my anecdotal experience this couldn't be further from the truth. WF has sold me rancid, overpriced seafood on several occasions, and is the only store to routinely err at checkout in the store's favor. Organic produce is literally double the price compared to Wegmans. Wegmans isn't perfect by any means -- a lot of the times the things I'm looking for simply aren't in stock -- but I can still get 80-90% of my grocery list there, vs. 50-60% at Star Market and the like (or 90-100% at WF, at roughly 1.5x the price).
posted by Behemoth at 3:40 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was friends with folks who worked at Wheatsville Food Co-op in Austin in the late 80s when Mackey came to town.
Wheatsville is still hanging in there. A regular MeFite does their advertising & monthly newsletter. They've recently remodeled the Guadalupe store & opened one at S. Lamar & 290. I'm a member -- I mostly go there for Arrowhead Mills products, (multi-grain pancake mix & maple buckwheat flakes cereal, etc) a little produce, bulk herbs, & good yogurt & cheese.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Wheatsville is still hanging in there. A regular MeFite does their advertising & monthly newsletter. They've recently remodeled the Guadalupe store & opened one at S. Lamar & 290. I'm a member -- I mostly go there for Arrowhead Mills products, (multi-grain pancake mix & maple buckwheat flakes cereal, etc) a little produce, bulk herbs, & good yogurt & cheese.
posted by Devils Rancher at 3:42 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really wish HEB would expand their Central Market franchise.
I really wish plain ole HEB would come to Dallas. Good prices, good selection and a surprisingly high-quality store brand. It's the only place I shopped at when I lived in Austin. Failing that a Wegman's would be great--I went to college in Rochester, NY and am still nostalgic.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I really wish plain ole HEB would come to Dallas. Good prices, good selection and a surprisingly high-quality store brand. It's the only place I shopped at when I lived in Austin. Failing that a Wegman's would be great--I went to college in Rochester, NY and am still nostalgic.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised that so many people here are saying Whole Foods is for hipsters. Where I live it is for yoga moms.
Yoga moms with SUVs that will run you down.
posted by Toddles at 4:33 PM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Yoga moms with SUVs that will run you down.
posted by Toddles at 4:33 PM on April 29, 2017 [10 favorites]
Huh? Yoga moms and hipsters are the same thing.
posted by Melismata at 4:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 4:41 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised that so many people here are saying Whole Foods is for hipsters. Where I live it is for yoga moms.
Yoga moms with SUVs that will run you down.
Most hipsters I know can't afford Whole Foods. And around here, anyway, Whole Foods is basically a hub for soccer moms in fancy SUVS (and Priuses . . . Priui?) and one of the only places in town where I regularly see Republican stickers on cars.
posted by thivaia at 4:56 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Where I used to live in Durham, NC, Whole Foods had fairly recently acquired a local chain, Wellspring, that was well known for the quality of their hot food bar. And so the Whole Foods/former Wellspring by my house had this huge following as a favorite lunch and brunch place. It was especially good if you were lunching with someone with a very specific diet. Here in Atlanta, Whole Foods doesn't even have that going for it--it's just expensive, and both of the intown ones are very hard to get in and out of because our traffic is abhorrent.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 5:09 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yoga moms with SUVs that will run you down.
The DC Whole Foods all have their own particular clientele, and it's surprisingly different. Foggy Bottom is all GW students, who mostly look like frat or sorority types, yoga moms is Glover Park, P Street is mostly childless affluent 30 somethings. Silver Spring is, miraculously, just kind of a grocery store.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:50 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
The DC Whole Foods all have their own particular clientele, and it's surprisingly different. Foggy Bottom is all GW students, who mostly look like frat or sorority types, yoga moms is Glover Park, P Street is mostly childless affluent 30 somethings. Silver Spring is, miraculously, just kind of a grocery store.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:50 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
It seems grocery trade is cutthroat. Here in L.A. many chains come and go, and being well backed by giants like Kroger or Safeway are no guarantee.
I have no particular love for WF, but there are plenty around here, and they seem to have pretty strong sales. Trader Joe's is pretty well established, too. We do have plenty of local chains that are really pretty good like Vallarta and Superior, but they tend to be a little under the radar, dedicating a lot of focus on non-Anglo goods.
There's a Winco near my Mom's house that's decent and cheap. And I've seen some newer Walmarts that were really pretty good for groceries in general. I wish there were some of these near me.
Krogers and Safeways around here (and their alter brand markets) are strongly union, but seem to have the surliest checkers. It's kind of funny sometimes. But they are pretty competitive in many areas and remain fairly popular. TJ's has the friendliest, by far. There's one around the block from me, so I go there often. They seem to hold on to employees a pretty long time.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:35 PM on April 29, 2017
I have no particular love for WF, but there are plenty around here, and they seem to have pretty strong sales. Trader Joe's is pretty well established, too. We do have plenty of local chains that are really pretty good like Vallarta and Superior, but they tend to be a little under the radar, dedicating a lot of focus on non-Anglo goods.
There's a Winco near my Mom's house that's decent and cheap. And I've seen some newer Walmarts that were really pretty good for groceries in general. I wish there were some of these near me.
Krogers and Safeways around here (and their alter brand markets) are strongly union, but seem to have the surliest checkers. It's kind of funny sometimes. But they are pretty competitive in many areas and remain fairly popular. TJ's has the friendliest, by far. There's one around the block from me, so I go there often. They seem to hold on to employees a pretty long time.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:35 PM on April 29, 2017
Proper Mefites would no doubt love the Seattle Wholefoods, which is rammed solid with Amazon employees most of the day.
posted by Artw at 6:45 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by Artw at 6:45 PM on April 29, 2017
If they wanted to really survive, they would delist and go back to being private.
I've got something exciting to tell you about private equity!
Those NYC shoppers interviewed are spoiled as hell. I bet none of them were around ten-plus years ago when your only options were filthy, overpriced five-aisle D'Ags and Gristedeses.
Merely standing in the checkout line and looking at the magazine offerings in my local WF make me want to renounce my entire way of life and become a mendicant, but, barring 100% shopping at the greenmarket--which would actually be considerably more expensive, hard as that is to imagine--I'm not going to get better produce or meat in one location elsewhere in the city. I supplement with TJ's, of course, but that's not going to cut it for those items.
posted by praemunire at 7:03 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've got something exciting to tell you about private equity!
Those NYC shoppers interviewed are spoiled as hell. I bet none of them were around ten-plus years ago when your only options were filthy, overpriced five-aisle D'Ags and Gristedeses.
Merely standing in the checkout line and looking at the magazine offerings in my local WF make me want to renounce my entire way of life and become a mendicant, but, barring 100% shopping at the greenmarket--which would actually be considerably more expensive, hard as that is to imagine--I'm not going to get better produce or meat in one location elsewhere in the city. I supplement with TJ's, of course, but that's not going to cut it for those items.
posted by praemunire at 7:03 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
No Bay Area love for Monterey Market?
posted by aspo at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by aspo at 7:21 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would like to hear more about this.
I have been there on several occasions in the past, ~2 years, midafternoon on a weekday, where there have been 2-3 codgers (all men) plainly in their cups (or growlers, as the case may be), yukking it up with the barista/bartender guy. They were there when I got there, and they were still there when I left with my bag of stuff. Laughing and slapping the counter.
Possibly related is the fact that a Giant near me also has a beer/coffee bar, and openly promotes drinking while you shop.
It would appear that grocery stores are the old man bars of the future.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have been there on several occasions in the past, ~2 years, midafternoon on a weekday, where there have been 2-3 codgers (all men) plainly in their cups (or growlers, as the case may be), yukking it up with the barista/bartender guy. They were there when I got there, and they were still there when I left with my bag of stuff. Laughing and slapping the counter.
Possibly related is the fact that a Giant near me also has a beer/coffee bar, and openly promotes drinking while you shop.
It would appear that grocery stores are the old man bars of the future.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:45 PM on April 29, 2017 [2 favorites]
Monterey Market? In Berkeley? Three cheers for that wonderful place!! Great produce. Good prices. And during the right time of the year, the mushroom aisle smells of candy cap mushrooms.
posted by njohnson23 at 8:23 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by njohnson23 at 8:23 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Whole Foods is definitely the best grocery store in our neck of the woods (Greater Boston).
Lydhre, your life is about to get way better.
posted by sy at 8:26 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
Lydhre, your life is about to get way better.
posted by sy at 8:26 PM on April 29, 2017 [3 favorites]
We've got an imperfect but decent natural foods chain here on the west coast - New Seasons (includes New Leaf). They're pretty proud of being a B corp.
They're also pretty proud of adding more parking at their stores in Portland, inducing more traffic, or at least they were last year.
posted by Automocar at 9:15 PM on April 29, 2017
They're also pretty proud of adding more parking at their stores in Portland, inducing more traffic, or at least they were last year.
posted by Automocar at 9:15 PM on April 29, 2017
I remember living in Denver before the Whole Foods opened. It was such an incredible upgrade (produce with taste! high quality meat! fish from someplace other than China!), and I shopped there exclusively.
Now I live ten minutes from Berkeley Bowl and I have not been in a Whole Foods in probably 7 years. They do have a few end-caps of woo at the Bowl, just so y'all don't start worrying about my lack of access to it.
posted by ananci at 10:59 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
Now I live ten minutes from Berkeley Bowl and I have not been in a Whole Foods in probably 7 years. They do have a few end-caps of woo at the Bowl, just so y'all don't start worrying about my lack of access to it.
posted by ananci at 10:59 PM on April 29, 2017 [4 favorites]
In Orange County, the only markets that seem to be opening new stores are either ones that cater to specific ethnic groups (Seafood City, Mitsuwa, El Super, H-Mart, 99 Ranch) or ones that are competing on price (Grocery Outlet and Alda). Some of the new markets opened in old Fresh & Easy stores, which was created by UK-based Tesco. They came out to SoCal a few years ago trying to kind of be a cheaper TJ's. Didn't work.
posted by FJT at 11:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by FJT at 11:07 PM on April 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
Berkeley Bowl is also pretty much Trader Joe's prices. Like I said, it's the world's greatest grocery store.
posted by notyou at 11:26 PM on April 29, 2017
posted by notyou at 11:26 PM on April 29, 2017
The Bay Area gets the overall-best produce in North America, but as I recall there are water politics and farming politics that go into enabling that. The NYC green markets come close but even Alice Waters as one of the leading culinary authorities (ok, add grain of salt here) says, it's not quite the same level.
The best farmers market I've been to is in St Paul, MN. Amazing produce, significantly cheaper than a cheap supermarket like Cub. I imagine that's because it's in the middle of a huge agricultural area. Of course, that produce is not available year-round like in California.
More relevant to the topic, it's interesting to note that Whole Foods has not gotten as big in Seattle as one would expect. There are only a few in the city limits. I think it's because we have a local chain of co ops (PCC) that beats Whole Foods at its own game. We also have Fred Meyer, the best non-Wegmans supermarket chain.
posted by lunasol at 4:45 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
The best farmers market I've been to is in St Paul, MN. Amazing produce, significantly cheaper than a cheap supermarket like Cub. I imagine that's because it's in the middle of a huge agricultural area. Of course, that produce is not available year-round like in California.
More relevant to the topic, it's interesting to note that Whole Foods has not gotten as big in Seattle as one would expect. There are only a few in the city limits. I think it's because we have a local chain of co ops (PCC) that beats Whole Foods at its own game. We also have Fred Meyer, the best non-Wegmans supermarket chain.
posted by lunasol at 4:45 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Lydhre, your life is about to get way better.
I knew I should have mentioned Market Basket too. The location close to our house is essentially equivalent to a Star Market, still doesn't compare in quality to the Whole Foods. Maybe we just get all the shitty produce once you get west of 95.
posted by lydhre at 5:36 AM on April 30, 2017
I knew I should have mentioned Market Basket too. The location close to our house is essentially equivalent to a Star Market, still doesn't compare in quality to the Whole Foods. Maybe we just get all the shitty produce once you get west of 95.
posted by lydhre at 5:36 AM on April 30, 2017
At one point I lived equidistant between two Market Baskets, and so I would have a choice of which to drive by on the way to literally any other grocery store. The notion that a Market Basket could be even OK is foreign to me.
posted by tocts at 6:17 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by tocts at 6:17 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Produce is literally the only thing I miss about living in Texas. Or California, for that matter.
posted by crush at 7:11 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by crush at 7:11 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
I miss CA produce quite a bit, but one thing I really appreciate about the DC region is how good seasonal produce is.
The farmer's market and co-op near me both tend to be right around the same price range as WFM if not a little cheaper, and they both carry almost exclusively local/seasonal produce. So I can't get fresh peaches all year, but when I get them they're the best goddamned peaches you ever ate.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:42 AM on April 30, 2017
The farmer's market and co-op near me both tend to be right around the same price range as WFM if not a little cheaper, and they both carry almost exclusively local/seasonal produce. So I can't get fresh peaches all year, but when I get them they're the best goddamned peaches you ever ate.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:42 AM on April 30, 2017
I would shop at Market Basket, but I can't sustain injuries to my torso the way I used to.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 8:42 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 8:42 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Berkeley Bowl is great but its produce selections have slowly been homogenizing over the past few years. My guess it just becomes a PITA to deal with smaller farms/orchards as overall demand goes up. I say this having provisioned an artisanal cocktail program in SF for three years, going to BB three times a week on average. One year you find a supply of Rangpur limes which lasts about 2 weeks. The next year: nothing. The produce buyer just shrugs when you ask about them.
Also BB has ZERO problems with selling out of season produce flown in from South America. Like you can get strawberries and stone fruit all year round.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:06 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Also BB has ZERO problems with selling out of season produce flown in from South America. Like you can get strawberries and stone fruit all year round.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:06 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
Monterey Market on Hopkins is amazing for produce. It's shit for parking, though.
posted by notyou at 11:34 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by notyou at 11:34 AM on April 30, 2017 [3 favorites]
notyou: Yes to both! I also did a lot of provisioning there as well. And there's a very good butcher across the street. The fish monger, a little further down Hopkins, is also fine but very expensive.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:48 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:48 AM on April 30, 2017 [1 favorite]
One year you find a supply of Rangpur limes which lasts about 2 weeks. The next year: nothing. The produce buyer just shrugs when you ask about them.
Rangpur limes are really hard to keep in stock. Sometimes the actual Thai market, which provisions itself out of people's backyards, here has them, sometimes there's none for weeks.
For cocktails, you might make use of Robert Lambert's Rangpur lime syrup.
posted by praemunire at 12:14 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Rangpur limes are really hard to keep in stock. Sometimes the actual Thai market, which provisions itself out of people's backyards, here has them, sometimes there's none for weeks.
For cocktails, you might make use of Robert Lambert's Rangpur lime syrup.
posted by praemunire at 12:14 PM on April 30, 2017 [2 favorites]
Huh? Yoga moms and hipsters are the same thing.
Not seen too many yoga moms with full beards.
posted by Samizdata at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2017
Not seen too many yoga moms with full beards.
posted by Samizdata at 9:07 AM on May 9, 2017
They deserve it for stopping selling the chicken quesadillas.
The Foggy Bottom one has chicken quesadillas, but I long for the shrimp burritos which are no more!
posted by jgirl at 6:47 PM on May 18, 2017
My ex-Berkeley vote is also for the Monterey Market --oh, the produce, and it's exactly perfectly crowded -- and for the butcher (duck glacee in quarts), fishmonger, cheese-chocolate-tea-and-coffee store, nursery (with ancient Buddha's Hand bush that they don't sell, but they do propagate from it), and wine merchant.
And at the end of the block the real estate agent's. Bwahahaha. Haha. Ha.
Before Berkeley I lived on Stockton at one end of Chinatown, so produce that was generally cheap and sometimes perfect; and could also walk to the Ferry Plaza Farmer's Market where the produce is startlingly expensive and always perfect.
posted by clew at 12:30 AM on May 19, 2017
And at the end of the block the real estate agent's. Bwahahaha. Haha. Ha.
Before Berkeley I lived on Stockton at one end of Chinatown, so produce that was generally cheap and sometimes perfect; and could also walk to the Ferry Plaza Farmer's Market where the produce is startlingly expensive and always perfect.
posted by clew at 12:30 AM on May 19, 2017
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* By that I mean: hipster pants dance-off over kumquats.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:24 AM on April 29, 2017 [11 favorites]