It's almost ok to grow or hold a little bit in Vermont.

May 11, 2017 6:06 AM

Marijuana legalization takes a big step forward in a little state. Vermont's House passed a bill legalizing the growing and possession of small amounts of marijuana. The law also establishes a commission to study regulation and taxation of the plant. It's a compromise on many levels, including with the state's Senate's recently passed version.

Now it's up to state governor Phil Scott to sign or not.

This may become the first time a state legislature, as opposed to a citizens' ballot initiative, has legalized pot.

From the bill:
It is the intent of the General Assembly to eliminate all penalties for possession of one ounce or less of marijuana and two mature and four immature marijuana plants for a person who is 21 years of age or older while retaining criminal penalties for possession, dispensing and sale of larger amounts of marijuana. This act also retains civil penalties for possession of marijuana by a person under 21 years of age, which are the same as for possession of alcohol by a person under 21 years of age.

posted by doctornemo (50 comments total)

Speaking as someone who lives in a ballot initiative state, passing a law is the way to do this. I think we're waiting until 2018 in Maine at the earliest for actual sales to start, and then it will be banned in basically every municipality because NIMBY, and I'm sure Governor Kefka Lepage will find some way to smear Jeff Sessions-inspired bullshit all over it.

Not that it will be less of an ordeal in Vermont, but at least they can figure out the regulations beforehand.
posted by selfnoise at 6:21 AM on May 11, 2017

I've lived in two states with legal recreational weed, and the only impact seems to be the increased tax revenues and long lines if you go at a busy time of day. (Plus, of course, the societal benefits of no longer throwing people in prison for possession charges.) I don't smoke, but it seems to be a net positive from what I can see.

I think it is great that different paths to legalization are being tested, so that it will be possible to see what works the best and solves more of the potential issues. No matter what the legalization path is, however, it will always put a lot back onto local municipalities who will have to figure out things like zoning and nuisance issues. Tax revenues will probably solve most of the NIMBY stuff, but just like with alcohol there will certainly be dry counties and towns.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:26 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Well... Massachusetts, Vermont.

C'mon New York... It's the 21st Century and beyond time for the NYPD to give up their #1 excuse for busting kids.
posted by mikelieman at 6:31 AM on May 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

I've lived in two states with legal recreational weed, and the only impact seems to be the increased tax revenues and long lines if you go at a busy time of day.

In DC it seemed to increase the number of public spaces that smelled like weed from 50% to 65% as well. I'm very pro-legalization, but the number of times I smell pot at 6:30 in the morning is high.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:33 AM on May 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

Seems like the biggest issue now is not at the state level but with the Feds: How Jeff Sessions wants to bring back the War on Drugs.
posted by gwint at 6:36 AM on May 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Bear in mind what else is going on in Vermont. Will this help? We shall see.
posted by IndigoJones at 6:54 AM on May 11, 2017

Rarely is the question asked: is our children high as fuck

Have you at any point in your adult life been around parents? Because I hear that question asked (incredulously albeit) all the time.
posted by Talez at 7:02 AM on May 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Yeah, here in MA, it's ostensibly legal, but all the towns are passing "You're not going to sell here, no way no how" ordinances and there isn't any legal selling in the state until 2018. I assume by then, if we're not nuked into cinders due to a tweet, that the administration will have put the lockdown on "states' rights" to this sort of thing.
posted by xingcat at 7:04 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Based on my experiences at UVM, I had assumed this was already the state flower of Vermont.
posted by Mayor West at 7:11 AM on May 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

but the number of times I smell pot at 6:30 in the morning is high

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:11 AM on May 11, 2017 [14 favorites]

In DC it seemed to increase the number of public spaces that smelled like weed from 50% to 65% as well. I'm very pro-legalization, but the number of times I smell pot at 6:30 in the morning is high.

I walk past a busy intersection frequently, and at both morning and evening rush hour you smell weed coming out of more than a few cars. But I also walk past a busy microbrewery, and all of their customers drive home after happy hour, so my guess is that the weed isn't raising the carnage by much.

Joking aside, the nuisance factor of smelling weed more often really is a drag; I wish more people would switch to edibles or vaporizers or whatever the latest no-stink technology might be. It's also something that pushes the issue entirely back on local government -- when pot is illegal, those problems can get solved with an arrest, but when it is legal it is up to the local code enforcement people to assess and resolve.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:12 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

the number of times I smell pot at 6:30 in the morning is high.

ಠ_ಠ
posted by Mayor West at 7:13 AM on May 11, 2017 [10 favorites]

but the number of times I smell pot at 6:30 in the morning is high

That's outrageous. Everyone knows edibles are best for a breakfast pick-me-up.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:16 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Bear in mind what else is going on in Vermont. Will this help? We shall see.

Well, we don't necessarily have to wait and see. This study suggests states that have ended prohibition on cannabis decrease in hospitalizations from overdoes. From what I've read, we don't know the full mechanism of why (in part it might be that using cannabis in conjunction with opioids decreases the chances of overdoes, and that it decreases opioid use in general). Our local weekly had a good write up here about someone doing research in that area as well.

So, hopefully it will.

I know this is a little detail, but the term Marijuana is (sort of, kind of) racist, and has some serious racist history behind it. Consider using the term Cannabis maybe?
posted by furnace.heart at 7:22 AM on May 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's also something that pushes the issue entirely back on local government -- when pot is illegal, those problems can get solved with an arrest, but when it is legal it is up to the local code enforcement people to assess and resolve.

Oh absolutely, and D.C.'s experience is odd, because we're banned from spending our own money on marijuana legalization which means we can't really regulate it in a normal fashion. The whole thing is a mess, but it taught me a valuable lesson about how many skunks live in DC. The answer is: not as many as I thought for a while.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:23 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure how this has been handled in other jurisdictions, but one of the more surprising oversights I've seen with the ending of prohibition is the advertising. While I personally do believe that tobacco is far more dangerous than cannabis consumption, I think the advertising laws should mimic each other if not identically, close to.

All the billboards in my hood are either for dispensaries or for pro-life pregnancy resource centers. I mean, I'd rather just billboards be banned, but I'll take what I can get.
posted by furnace.heart at 7:29 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

On the plus side, every guy named Phil I've ever known was the kind of guy who maybe didn't buy weed, but if you offered him one, sure, what the hell, thanks.
posted by Etrigan at 7:45 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

C'mon New York... It's the 21st Century and beyond time for the NYPD to give up their #1 excuse for busting kids.

Let me tell you a tale of graft, corruption, and extreme fuckery. It ends with "lol, no, everything is terrible." We can't even get the IDC or Cuomo to pass state legislation legalizing abortion, which New York never did. We rely entirely on SC decisions. New York is a pretty good example of single party control allowing unbelievable fuckery; the fact that the city often functions as its own city state (as far as I can tell) is the only redeeming feature.

Also I smile every time I smell pot on the street, because someone's day is getting better.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:50 AM on May 11, 2017 [9 favorites]

it's ostensibly legal, but all the towns are passing "You're not going to sell here, no way no how" ordinances

Being Massachusetts, the legislature and town meetings across the state have heard the unequivocal will of the people and responded, "No fackin' way."
posted by 1adam12 at 7:55 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I live in a legal state and literally never smell weed in public. All these comments about "I'm cool with it buuuuut it sure stinks" smack of judgment disguised as acceptance. Cigarettes and alcohol are way, way worse and I'd rather smell weed than either of those any time.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 7:59 AM on May 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

One of my main complaints with cigarettes is their appalling stench; I don't see why I should feel differently about pot (or Axe, for that matter).
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:03 AM on May 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

I live in a legal state and literally never smell weed in public.

You've never been to a concert?
posted by Talez at 8:05 AM on May 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hate the smell and wish for all smoking of cannabis or tobacco to take place in a charcoal-filtered cave that doesn't share a wall with my home, but legalization is a very good thing and other states need to get on board.

The biggest problem legalized cannabis has caused me is that it seems to have increased the number of people smoking tobacco here as well, and also a disturbing number of dispensaries choose to name themselves with stupid puns. That should definitely be illegal. No more shops with cutesy acronyms that spell out POT or THC, please. Have some dignity.

And if you don't smell weed in public around here, you just aren't out in public here unless it's walking between your climate-controlled automobile and climate-controlled building. I avoid it as much as possible and have given up on most live music, but it's still something I encounter nearly every day, since I'm seldom in a car.
posted by asperity at 8:05 AM on May 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well - I don't smell it as much as when I lived in the high rise part of Seattle (prior to legalization), but certain places at certain times... YUCK.
posted by wotsac at 8:06 AM on May 11, 2017

. Cigarettes and alcohol are way, way worse and I'd rather smell weed than either of those any time.

I'm pretty sure it's possible to hate the smell of cigarettes and pot at the same time.
posted by praemunire at 8:06 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'd rather smell weed too, but I can't remember the last time I walked around NYC (where cannabis is, yes, not yet legal) without smelling it. Hell, a couple of weeks ago I walked through a Chongesque miasma with no identifiable source at Flushing Meadows Park, which was at that hour full of families having picnics. Everybody is smoking weed in public. Everywhere.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:06 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

One of my main complaints with cigarettes is their appalling stench; I don't see why I should feel differently about pot

Agreed. I actually like the smell of weed, though I suspect a lot of that is nostalgia. If I smelled it everywhere I went I'd probably not like it as much. I think cigarettes smell terrible and are disgusting and smoking should be illegal in public the way pot smoking is supposed to be, though I'm perfectly fine with people smoking in their own homes. Adults gonna adult. Not wanting to smell something that smells is not the same as not accepting that thing.

I'm in MA where it's technically legal now but you can't legally buy it (yet) and while it's not uncommon to smell weed it's still sort of a surprise when I smell it on the train or anywhere else in public.
posted by bondcliff at 8:10 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Anecdotally, the biggest difference I see in public weed consumption in NYC is that now brown and black kids smoke the way white kids did back when I was in high school, which is to say, walking down the street with little to no fear. (In retrospect, that was maybe my first understanding of privilege! Though I didn't know to call it that and uuuuhhh it took way too long to sink in.) That also makes me smile.

Also, for real, "smell" is kind of a bullshit complaint in NYC. Everything smells. Literally everything. But weed smoke generally doesn't have like a shit ton of poison in it, so, you know, it's a step up.

Anyway. I'm pretty sure the only thing that will get NY to legalize is money, so, the more states that get in on it and start making it rain, the better.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:13 AM on May 11, 2017 [8 favorites]

Also, for real, "smell" is kind of a bullshit complaint in NYC. Everything smells. Literally everything

I demand that my fair city smell like piss as the good lord intended.
posted by dr_dank at 8:35 AM on May 11, 2017 [11 favorites]

We can't even get the IDC or Cuomo to pass state legislation legalizing abortion, which New York never did. We rely entirely on SC decisions.

Derail, but this is wildly inaccurate. NY legalized abortion to 24 weeks in 1970, with abortion afterwards legal to save the woman. This is less protection than court decisions currently provide, but your implication that without these court decisions abortion would be illegal in NY is just wrong.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:37 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeeeah, look... I get it, if smokin' the reefer isn't a part of someone's culture, it's gonna weird them out to have it obviously happening in public space. That's totally understandable.

Also, marijuana prohibition is a totalitarian, deliberately racist policy which is immediately responsible for the oppression, incarceration, and early death of millions of Americans, disproportionately people of color, and to which nuisance-based objections contribute directly by sapping public support for change.

Weed smells gross, and I'd like to see more use of edibles and vapes, for both health and public image reasons. I'd also like to see more checking of privilege. As long as the criminal justice system is involved, the alternative to that smell is incomprehensibly worse.
posted by emmalemma at 8:47 AM on May 11, 2017 [4 favorites]

Man, I would love it if everyone switched to vapes and extract instead of pipes and grass for the health benefits alone, but I honestly don't think that's ever going to happen. Even the easiest-to-use vapes (discounting a couple of models like the MFLB) are fiddly and require regular sourcing and replacement of parts. It's a hard sell.
posted by griphus at 8:52 AM on May 11, 2017

Derail, but this is wildly inaccurate. NY legalized abortion to 24 weeks in 1970, with abortion afterwards legal to save the woman. This is less protection than court decisions currently provide, but your implication that without these court decisions abortion would be illegal in NY is just wrong.

I will...idk pass this along for clarification to the lobbyist and the lady working with my councilman who are/were trying to get something through this session, and who I was paraphrasing

Still fuck the IDC though
posted by schadenfrau at 8:55 AM on May 11, 2017

fuck the IDC
posted by griphus at 8:57 AM on May 11, 2017

Also, for real, "smell" is kind of a bullshit complaint in NYC. Everything smells.

You know what doesn't smell in NYC? My apartment, thanks very much. Unless the people next to me think it's the height of wit to smoke an entire plant at 4:20 a.m.
posted by praemunire at 9:01 AM on May 11, 2017 [7 favorites]

Maybe states and municipalities should enforce public smoking laws by handing out tickets like candy in conjunction with legalizing weed.

(Personally I love the smell of weed but I'm happy to not subject everyone else to it.)
posted by vverse23 at 9:10 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Even the easiest-to-use vapes (discounting a couple of models like the MFLB) are fiddly and require regular sourcing and replacement of parts. It's a hard sell.

I have had some really good experiences with the Grencro Science Elite. No real parts to replace, other than the mouthpiece. Honestly, the whole thing is really bulletproof, and the only 'fiddly' part is how to turn it on and off (which is actually a child safety thing). My only complaint is that it's battery life is kind of not the best, but that's a fine tradeoff for the size.

Combusted cannabis = Gross smell. Vaporized (high quality) cannabis = perfume.

I've never been one for the 'tasting notes' on cannabis until I got a vaporizer. I have a lovely high CBD strain that, no joke, smells like a mango and a pine tree makin' babies. Its a really distinct aroma, and not at all unpleasant.
posted by furnace.heart at 9:25 AM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

Still fuck the IDC though

Sideways.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:04 AM on May 11, 2017

USians and their weird smell issues. I swear they walk by freshly mowed grass and complain.

I was making a kind of jokey complaint, and this is a really uncharitable response. I don't want the elevator in my building to smell overwhemingly of skunk weed when I'm taking my daughter to daycare first thing in the morning; that's not unreasonable.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:23 AM on May 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

You know, I grew up with the smells of homemade ngapi in the blender, barnyards, the neighbors regularly boiling goat head curry with what was certainly an intact goat... strong smells are fine. The same strong smell randomly showing up in your life all the time is less fine. You can be pro-legalization and still not want the lingering smell of pot to be omnipresent. In areas of greater population density, it's an actual challenge, not just har har you privileged uncultured authoritarians.
posted by zennie at 10:28 AM on May 11, 2017 [5 favorites]

My neighborhood has a pretty high urban skunk population, so being able to tell the difference between a possibly irate skunk in the immediate vacinity and someone who smoked a skunk-sized pile of low-grade weed is a survival skill.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:51 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's a rare day I don't smell weed (not counting if I'm smoking it myself ;) ).

That doesn't bother me, what does bother me is the people standing on the street smoking it. That's essentially pushing it on everyone who walks by. (Same problem with people who produce gigantic clouds of smoke at an indoor concert).

Of course, I live in Hollywood so you get a lot more of that sort of thing than you would in Irvine or something.
posted by thefoxgod at 11:56 AM on May 11, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I feel strongly about the smell and the advertising here in PDX. I believe legalization has done profound good for society on the whole and would be okay with the smell if it wasn't for the advertising every where.

Also, legal weed is the gateway for hemp production and industry. Just saying.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 1:34 PM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

No, I don't go to concerts because I hate crowds but I feel like complaining about weed smell at a concert means maybe you shouldn't go to them either.
posted by masquesoporfavor at 4:18 PM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

People who complain about the smell of cannabis must, one can only assume, hold the same grudges against the smells of breweries, chocolate shops, and coffee roasters.
posted by juice boo at 5:02 PM on May 11, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh certainly. Also rose gardens, newborn babies, and crisp autumn days.
posted by zennie at 11:02 PM on May 11, 2017 [2 favorites]

I don't want the elevator in my building to smell overwhemingly of skunk weed when I'm taking my daughter to daycare first thing in the morning; that's not unreasonable.

Does this have anything to do with legalization? It's surely not legal in your elevator, right?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:26 AM on May 12, 2017

(I live in a city with many remaining open sewers, so a little weed stank would really help. No chance, though, any time soon.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 12:27 AM on May 12, 2017

Wait...we're not supposed to be mad about secondhand smoke anymore? It's still dangerous...

One can simultaneously be against the ways that the enforcement of public smoking laws are unfair to black and brown people and feel that putting others - especially children - unwittingly at risk of breathing in secondhand smoke should be illegal. Screw other air pollution, too, but these things don't undo each other.
posted by R a c h e l at 8:11 AM on May 12, 2017 [2 favorites]

> All the billboards in my hood are either for dispensaries or for pro-life pregnancy resource centers

I had to check your profile to see if you live in my neighborhood. Somehow the two-block main drag here has two dispensaries and a wholesale supply store, with two other dispensaries less than a mile away, and the billboards are either WOO WE HAVE CHEAP WEED or I AM A BABY AND I WUV OOO.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:46 PM on May 14, 2017