OSSA LATINITATIS SOLA AD MENTEM REGINALDI RATIONEMQUE
November 16, 2017 8:13 PM Subscribe
FR. Reginald Foster, The Vatican's Latinist [Archive.org]
The Pope's Latinist, 2000
Pope's Latinist Prononces Death Of A Lanugage, 2007
Foster teaching Cicero
Foster interviewed by Milwaukee's FOX SIX News
Reginald Foster: The Vatican's Latinist It's remarkable to see what Foster accomplished, but even more so to see the ripple effect, what he has inspired. Other links associated with the article and Reginald Foster:
Experience Latin with Fr. Reginald Foster
LATINITATIS CORPUS, REGINALDO PROCURATORE
The number of Foster’s students runs into the thousands, and many of them are now themselves some of the most dedicated teachers in the field. “When I was in college I asked people, ‘Hey, we all know Latin is a language. Does anybody actually speak it anymore?’ And they told me there was one guy, some guy at the Vatican, who still spoke the language, and that was Fr. Foster,” says Dr. Michael Fontaine, a professor of Classics at Cornell University. “I said to myself, ‘I have to study with this guy.’ And that changed everything for me.” Dr. Paul Gwynne, professor of Medieval and Renaissance Studies at the American University of Rome, said of Foster, “He is not just the best Latin teacher I’ve ever seen, he’s simply the best teacher I’ve ever seen. Studying Latin with the Pope’s apostolic secretary, for whom the language is alive, using the city of Rome as a classroom . . . it changed my whole outlook on life, really.”
The Pope's Latinist, 2000
Pope's Latinist Prononces Death Of A Lanugage, 2007
Foster teaching Cicero
Foster interviewed by Milwaukee's FOX SIX News
Reginald Foster: The Vatican's Latinist It's remarkable to see what Foster accomplished, but even more so to see the ripple effect, what he has inspired. Other links associated with the article and Reginald Foster:
Experience Latin with Fr. Reginald Foster
LATINITATIS CORPUS, REGINALDO PROCURATORE
Putting a seasonal bent onto this -- In high school and college, there was always a Latin Caroling event, where high schoolers and members of the public sing completely anachronistic Christmas carols translated into Latin.
Does that not happen in Seattle? Is it only a New England thing? Have people on this coast moved on to Mandarin and buried Latin entirely? For love nor money nor all the pagerank in the world can I find this.
posted by batter_my_heart at 9:36 PM on November 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
Does that not happen in Seattle? Is it only a New England thing? Have people on this coast moved on to Mandarin and buried Latin entirely? For love nor money nor all the pagerank in the world can I find this.
posted by batter_my_heart at 9:36 PM on November 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've long thought that the Catholic Church ought to offer free Latin classes to anyone interested. Might help with their "butts in seats" problem, even; there's a predominantly Chinese church in my town that offers free Mandarin lessons on Saturdays that are always well attended.
posted by Soliloquy at 9:53 PM on November 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by Soliloquy at 9:53 PM on November 16, 2017 [7 favorites]
In my Catholic leaning little New England town, Latin was a half year elective when I hit the seventh grade in the mid 80's, as a conditioning course for high school Latin. It was gone in the eighth grade, and completely removed from the highschool curriculum once I got there. German stopped being offered shortly thereafter. French, Spanish or nothing.
Which is a shame, as Latin was kind of fun in a nerd with legos sort of way. Once you got a feel for how the pieces fit together, it was a challenge rather than a slog. Spanish, the way it was taught at the time, was not as engaging. The kids taking French at least got to read Tin-Tin books.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:55 PM on November 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
Which is a shame, as Latin was kind of fun in a nerd with legos sort of way. Once you got a feel for how the pieces fit together, it was a challenge rather than a slog. Spanish, the way it was taught at the time, was not as engaging. The kids taking French at least got to read Tin-Tin books.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:55 PM on November 16, 2017 [3 favorites]
that fox six video's worth watching.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:11 PM on November 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
- dude has absolutely no time for the trappings of his office — he notes that he doesn't even own an clerical collar. The kinda smarmy fox reporter describes him as dressing "in the uniform of a janitor."
- He refuses to be called father, and asks his students to call him Reggie instead.
- Every man in his family before him was a plumber.
- He's charmingly doctrinally independent from the church (at one point he says "half of this stuff I think is human creation and human nonsense!")
- Most church documents over the course of his career were either written by him or approved by him.
- Despite his unorthodoxy, the hierarchy couldn't touch him — after all, he was indispensable!
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:11 PM on November 16, 2017 [54 favorites]
There is also an excellent article about him by Alexander Stille available here.
posted by lackutrol at 10:55 PM on November 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by lackutrol at 10:55 PM on November 16, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was sure this piece was an obituary, but I'm (very) glad that it's not.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:57 PM on November 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by crazy with stars at 10:57 PM on November 16, 2017 [6 favorites]
I really love this guy.
You do not need to be mentally excellent to know Latin. Prostitutes, beggars and pimps in Rome spoke Latin, so there must be some hope for us."posted by corb at 11:22 PM on November 16, 2017 [23 favorites]
Last year Fr Foster was fired from the Gregorian University for allowing too many students to study without charging them.
"I was not going to play the policeman," he said. "I was happy to teach anyone who wanted to learn. Many of my students studied for three, four, five years -without -paying a single cent.
I've long thought that the Catholic Church ought to offer free Latin classes to anyone interested.
Not a bad idea. I went to a Catholic high schook from 1975-1979. Latin had been mandatory just a couple of years before, but when they stopped requiring it, the interest was so slight that they didn't even offer it as an elective.'
Now I'm writing a book that deals with a lot of Latin writing, and I desperately wish they had kept that requirement.
posted by msalt at 12:55 AM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not a bad idea. I went to a Catholic high schook from 1975-1979. Latin had been mandatory just a couple of years before, but when they stopped requiring it, the interest was so slight that they didn't even offer it as an elective.'
Now I'm writing a book that deals with a lot of Latin writing, and I desperately wish they had kept that requirement.
posted by msalt at 12:55 AM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Hoc bonum est.
posted by briank at 5:17 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by briank at 5:17 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
The quote "Prostitutes, beggars and pimps in Rome spoke Latin, so there must be some hope for us." makes me think of the graffiti bit from Life of Brian.
The Vatican's web site does have a section in Latin, but I am sad that they don't have a 404 page in various languages that includes Latin.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:32 AM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
The Vatican's web site does have a section in Latin, but I am sad that they don't have a 404 page in various languages that includes Latin.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:32 AM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Prostitutes, beggars and pimps in Rome spoke Latin, so there must be some hope for us.
A Latin factoid I remember: the Latin word for pimp is “leno” (or so Henry Beard, or Henricus Barbatus, claimed in his novelty book on Latin, at least)
posted by acb at 6:22 AM on November 17, 2017
A Latin factoid I remember: the Latin word for pimp is “leno” (or so Henry Beard, or Henricus Barbatus, claimed in his novelty book on Latin, at least)
posted by acb at 6:22 AM on November 17, 2017
Putting a seasonal bent onto this -- In high school and college, there was always a Latin Caroling event, where high schoolers and members of the public sing completely anachronistic Christmas carols translated into Latin.
Does that not happen in Seattle? Is it only a New England thing? Have people on this coast moved on to Mandarin and buried Latin entirely? For love nor money nor all the pagerank in the world can I find this.
Nope. Texas, 1988, I will never forget the words:
Rudolphus cervus nasum
Rubicundum habebat
posted by emjaybee at 6:44 AM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
Does that not happen in Seattle? Is it only a New England thing? Have people on this coast moved on to Mandarin and buried Latin entirely? For love nor money nor all the pagerank in the world can I find this.
Nope. Texas, 1988, I will never forget the words:
Rudolphus cervus nasum
Rubicundum habebat
posted by emjaybee at 6:44 AM on November 17, 2017 [8 favorites]
I've long thought that the Catholic Church ought to offer free Latin classes to anyone interested. Might help with their "butts in seats" problem...
That would be a double-edged sword, I think, especially in the US. I would dig learning Latin, but I think it would also embolden the radical right-wing Catholics who already celebrate Latin masses, and are all about returning the Church to pre-Vatican-II days.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:57 AM on November 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
That would be a double-edged sword, I think, especially in the US. I would dig learning Latin, but I think it would also embolden the radical right-wing Catholics who already celebrate Latin masses, and are all about returning the Church to pre-Vatican-II days.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:57 AM on November 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
All I remember from taking Latin is I can conjugate "to love", can repeat the Mass back in Latin, and I made up a dirty joke...
Vidi, veni, vidi.
posted by Samizdata at 7:25 AM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Vidi, veni, vidi.
posted by Samizdata at 7:25 AM on November 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thorzdad---this is an interesting thing. You're probably right, on balance, but I also know a fair number of people who are very, very into the traditional Latin mass; thoughtful, rich liturgy; and also Catholic social teaching. (I keep telling these folks to come over to Anglo-Catholicism.)
posted by golwengaud at 7:30 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by golwengaud at 7:30 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I love the Latin Mass with my whole heart, but every time I see a Latin Mass offered, it seems to come with some jerkery. I wish we could have one without the other.
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:42 AM on November 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
...but I also know a fair number of people who are very, very into the traditional Latin mass; thoughtful, rich liturgy; and also Catholic social teaching.
That sounds a lot like me. I was raised Catholic, but no longer practice. However, there's a real soft spot in my heart for the beauty of a Latin Mass, and all its attendant pomp and ceremony. It sort of feels like home, in a way. And, yeah, the social teaching aspect is very important, as it is with my Catholic friends.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
That sounds a lot like me. I was raised Catholic, but no longer practice. However, there's a real soft spot in my heart for the beauty of a Latin Mass, and all its attendant pomp and ceremony. It sort of feels like home, in a way. And, yeah, the social teaching aspect is very important, as it is with my Catholic friends.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I hope that when I die, I'll go with few regrets, but I know that one of the regrets I'll definitely have will be that I didn't take Foster's Latin class when I had the opportunity. I lived in Rome for a year in the mid 2000s, and having heard tell of his classes and having had genuine need to improve my sad high school Latin, I wrote to Father Foster at the Carmelite residence on the Gianicolo hill. I still have somewhere the letter he wrote back—it was handwritten, in cursive, in four different colors of ball-point pen. He included a placement quiz, so that he and I could know whether I should be in the beginners or the intermediate/advanced group.
I was stupid, however, and decided that my archive time was more important than his class, and so I decided not to do it. In the long run, my research project was a bust. I have to read Latin fairly regularly now, and it's always a struggle. I frequently think how things might have been different if I'd just taken the road less travelled and made time for Foster's famous class.
posted by pleasant_confusion at 11:17 AM on November 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
I was stupid, however, and decided that my archive time was more important than his class, and so I decided not to do it. In the long run, my research project was a bust. I have to read Latin fairly regularly now, and it's always a struggle. I frequently think how things might have been different if I'd just taken the road less travelled and made time for Foster's famous class.
posted by pleasant_confusion at 11:17 AM on November 17, 2017 [12 favorites]
So, I haven't meet Foster, but I've met a number of his followers and encountered their spoken language groups, and for anyone considering this as a fun thing to do, you might want to know that as far as I have experienced they skew incredibly right wing and conservative, down to the texts they think we should be using, the types of language that considered are appropriate, and the types of uses Latin and knowledge of Latin should be put to. This is why I get deeply uncomfortable to see the sort of ra-raness that always occurs when Foster gets mentioned.
Spoken Latin is also terrible for preparing people to read actual Latin that they want to read, so there's that issue too.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Spoken Latin is also terrible for preparing people to read actual Latin that they want to read, so there's that issue too.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:38 PM on November 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
> So, I haven't meet Foster, but I've met a number of his followers and encountered their spoken language groups, and for anyone considering this as a fun thing to do, you might want to know that as far as I have experienced they skew incredibly right wing and conservative, down to the texts they think we should be using, the types of language that considered are appropriate, and the types of uses Latin and knowledge of Latin should be put to.
Sigh. I suppose I'll have to un-headcanonize him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:14 PM on November 17, 2017
Sigh. I suppose I'll have to un-headcanonize him.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:14 PM on November 17, 2017
I know one Foster mentee, who is quoted prominently in this article, and he's not like that at all for what it's worth. Also, the article has several examples of Foster's non-orthodoxy and criticism of the church and its trappings.
posted by msalt at 2:34 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by msalt at 2:34 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd love to ask Foster if there are any suppressed Latin works in the Vatican libraries -- Petronius, Ennius, etc.
posted by msalt at 2:35 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by msalt at 2:35 PM on November 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
msalt: "I'd love to ask Foster if there are any suppressed Latin works in the Vatican libraries -- Petronius, Ennius, etc."
You can read this nice 2011 New Yorker piece by Daniel Mendelsohn on the workings of the Vatican Libraries. My sense is that it is indeed an intensely political place, but nobody has anything to gain by hiding pagan Latin manuscripts that could make a career.
posted by crazy with stars at 9:48 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
You can read this nice 2011 New Yorker piece by Daniel Mendelsohn on the workings of the Vatican Libraries. My sense is that it is indeed an intensely political place, but nobody has anything to gain by hiding pagan Latin manuscripts that could make a career.
posted by crazy with stars at 9:48 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]
Sigh. I suppose I'll have to un-headcanonize him.
Well, as I said I've never met him, so feel free to re-headcanonize him.
And it doesn't surprise me that this is one of the areas that skews conservative, going by people I know who do Latin phonetics and run the 'just how did Plutarch pronounce his Greek' panels at conferences. It might be a question of the sorts of people who are generally interested in doing this as much as him.
I'd love to ask Foster if there are any suppressed Latin works in the Vatican libraries -- Petronius, Ennius, etc.
Given what they do give people access to, it'd have to go wayy further than Petronius' wildest portions. And those are pretty wild.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:48 PM on November 20, 2017
Well, as I said I've never met him, so feel free to re-headcanonize him.
And it doesn't surprise me that this is one of the areas that skews conservative, going by people I know who do Latin phonetics and run the 'just how did Plutarch pronounce his Greek' panels at conferences. It might be a question of the sorts of people who are generally interested in doing this as much as him.
I'd love to ask Foster if there are any suppressed Latin works in the Vatican libraries -- Petronius, Ennius, etc.
Given what they do give people access to, it'd have to go wayy further than Petronius' wildest portions. And those are pretty wild.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 3:48 PM on November 20, 2017
The Vatican has a lot of archives. A lot. Including some exciting periods of papal history, for one... And those are (on the whole) open to scholars.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:19 PM on November 21, 2017
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:19 PM on November 21, 2017
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