Who are the true Ur-Quan Masters?
February 23, 2018 11:12 AM Subscribe
In 2013, software developer Stardock announced they were making a new Star Control game, the first in nearly two decades, after they purchased the rights to the Star Control games from Atari (previously)
Or so they thought.
The original creators of Star Control - Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III at Toys For Bob - had moved on, creating the massively successful toy/game hybrid Skylanders. But Fred and Paul wanted to return to Star Control, and thanks to termination clauses found in their original contract with Accolade, believe that the rights to Star Control reverted back to them in 2001 and were never Atari's to sell.
(How did Atari end up with the rights to Accolade games? Accolade was purchased by Infogrames in 1999, Infogrames merged with Atari and renamed themselves as such, and went bankrupt in 2013, leading to sell off of Star Control rights to Stardock in the same year.)
Stardock as well as Ford and Reiche have both announced the development of new Star Control games. And are now both involved in suits and countersuits to determine who has the rights to make the next Star Control game as well as who has the rights to sell the existing games in the series.
The original creators of Star Control - Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III at Toys For Bob - had moved on, creating the massively successful toy/game hybrid Skylanders. But Fred and Paul wanted to return to Star Control, and thanks to termination clauses found in their original contract with Accolade, believe that the rights to Star Control reverted back to them in 2001 and were never Atari's to sell.
(How did Atari end up with the rights to Accolade games? Accolade was purchased by Infogrames in 1999, Infogrames merged with Atari and renamed themselves as such, and went bankrupt in 2013, leading to sell off of Star Control rights to Stardock in the same year.)
Stardock as well as Ford and Reiche have both announced the development of new Star Control games. And are now both involved in suits and countersuits to determine who has the rights to make the next Star Control game as well as who has the rights to sell the existing games in the series.
Loved all the star control games, but it felt like the play balance was always off and drastically favored one ship type over all the rest. Spathi in the first game, but I can't remember which in the second.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:45 AM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:45 AM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's not just free, it's open source! So anybody can release a sequel. But if they do, it'll be bound by the GPL. So I guess they're trying to get the rights to make a non-GPL sequel?
It'd be hella tight if they just made a GPL sequel, tho! I bet you could make money releasing a GPL game and then charging for it on Steam and whatnot. Plenty of android apps operate this way. It's like "hey, you wanna go to the trouble of getting it without the app store, be my guest. If you want to get it from me on the app store, that'll be five bucks".
Of course, then other people can ALSO offer it on the app store under these terms!
I've seen this happen for android apps. Has this happened with desktop games yet? How'd that go?
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:50 AM on February 23, 2018
It'd be hella tight if they just made a GPL sequel, tho! I bet you could make money releasing a GPL game and then charging for it on Steam and whatnot. Plenty of android apps operate this way. It's like "hey, you wanna go to the trouble of getting it without the app store, be my guest. If you want to get it from me on the app store, that'll be five bucks".
Of course, then other people can ALSO offer it on the app store under these terms!
I've seen this happen for android apps. Has this happened with desktop games yet? How'd that go?
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 11:50 AM on February 23, 2018
I found the (had to google it) the yehat had the best ship -- shields, ultra fast (not great range) guns..
posted by k5.user at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2018
posted by k5.user at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2018
Maybe the Yehat had the best ship (I was a Thraddash kid, but I confess that my strategy was incredibly cheap), but the Melnorme had the best song.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:07 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:07 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
IIRC stardock is run by some GamerGate fuck and is worth avoiding.
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on February 23, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:07 PM on February 23, 2018 [22 favorites]
Wake me up when there's a reboot of Starflight.
posted by tftio at 12:09 PM on February 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by tftio at 12:09 PM on February 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
(Brad Wardell is not a rational person from what I can tell so perhaps the question is immaterial).
Brad Wardell is a dick.
posted by Pendragon at 12:16 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Brad Wardell is a dick.
posted by Pendragon at 12:16 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
IIRC stardock is run by some GamerGate fuck and is worth avoiding.
He's also known for being an abusive transphobe.
As well as sexually harassing his employees, and bragging about insane crunch hours.
Suffice it to say, Brad Wardell is why I don't buy Stardock games.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
He's also known for being an abusive transphobe.
As well as sexually harassing his employees, and bragging about insane crunch hours.
Suffice it to say, Brad Wardell is why I don't buy Stardock games.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
It's not just free, it's open source! So anybody can release a sequel. But if they do, it'll be bound by the GPL.
That's not really the case. The only Star Control thing released under the GPL is the source code for The Ur-Quan Masters. The UQM assets (script, graphics, audio) are under a Creative Commons license that disallows commercial use, so already it would be illegal to take UQM and resell it. Beyond that, this legal dispute between Ford/Reiche and Stardock is over the trademarked name "Star Control" and the rights to the Star Control setting, backstory, alien races, etc. You could certainly make and sell an original game based on the GPL source, it just can't be called "Star Control" or have anything to do with Star Control.
posted by skymt at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
That's not really the case. The only Star Control thing released under the GPL is the source code for The Ur-Quan Masters. The UQM assets (script, graphics, audio) are under a Creative Commons license that disallows commercial use, so already it would be illegal to take UQM and resell it. Beyond that, this legal dispute between Ford/Reiche and Stardock is over the trademarked name "Star Control" and the rights to the Star Control setting, backstory, alien races, etc. You could certainly make and sell an original game based on the GPL source, it just can't be called "Star Control" or have anything to do with Star Control.
posted by skymt at 12:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
This thread makes my fibers grow turgid. A weekend of UQM-playing ensues
(Or at least watching some Frungy streams on Twitch)
posted by Juffo-Wup at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
(Or at least watching some Frungy streams on Twitch)
posted by Juffo-Wup at 12:41 PM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]
Oh, that reminds me...
Back in 2011, I visited a Borders during the chain's slow demise, sort of gawking, sort of picking through the carcass. The one part I remember seeing clearly was looking into the remainder bin (so you know these were the truly unloved books) and seeing...a copy of Wardell's Elemental tie-in novel.
(This is when Elemental, Wardell's pet/vanity project, was more or less sinking the company.)
Never has an image so totally captured the reality of the person involved.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:24 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Back in 2011, I visited a Borders during the chain's slow demise, sort of gawking, sort of picking through the carcass. The one part I remember seeing clearly was looking into the remainder bin (so you know these were the truly unloved books) and seeing...a copy of Wardell's Elemental tie-in novel.
(This is when Elemental, Wardell's pet/vanity project, was more or less sinking the company.)
Never has an image so totally captured the reality of the person involved.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:24 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, SC2 was the only one worth remembering and re-playing.
Maybe the Yehat had the best ship (I was a Thraddash kid, but I confess that my strategy was incredibly cheap), but the Melnorme had the best song.
The Thraddash Torch was always fun to use, burning a destructive fiery trail across the screen. I never had much luck with the Yehat ship. My favorite was the Orz Nemesis (independent turret AND marines!).
It's hard to pick a best song in SC2. I liked Hyperspace, it's the one you hear most often and longest, so it needs to be something you can hum to as you get to the next star system.
posted by linux at 1:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Maybe the Yehat had the best ship (I was a Thraddash kid, but I confess that my strategy was incredibly cheap), but the Melnorme had the best song.
The Thraddash Torch was always fun to use, burning a destructive fiery trail across the screen. I never had much luck with the Yehat ship. My favorite was the Orz Nemesis (independent turret AND marines!).
It's hard to pick a best song in SC2. I liked Hyperspace, it's the one you hear most often and longest, so it needs to be something you can hum to as you get to the next star system.
posted by linux at 1:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Once again, this is why we can't have nice things. :sigh:
posted by Samizdata at 1:53 PM on February 23, 2018
posted by Samizdata at 1:53 PM on February 23, 2018
Brad Wardell is a *silly cow*. I hope Ford and Reiche can *dance* very well.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:13 PM on February 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:13 PM on February 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
I am pretty sure that by the rules of Star Control, the winner is the first one to file a motion saying "Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?"
posted by ckape at 3:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by ckape at 3:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
Oh, how I adored the Star Control games, especially Star Control 2. I still have the big fold-out map of space that came in the retail box. Perhaps I should have it framed and adorn my office wall with it.
Regarding the suits, Wardell and Stardock's claims seem dubious at best. And though it makes little difference to the law-talking guys, Stardock comes across as having exactly the wrong corporate culture to make a good, faithful Star Control title. I hope this shakes out in favor of Ford and Reiche.
i.e., DEFENSE SYSTEM HAS BEEN ENGAGED. HOSTILITIES COMMENCE.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 6:46 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Regarding the suits, Wardell and Stardock's claims seem dubious at best. And though it makes little difference to the law-talking guys, Stardock comes across as having exactly the wrong corporate culture to make a good, faithful Star Control title. I hope this shakes out in favor of Ford and Reiche.
i.e., DEFENSE SYSTEM HAS BEEN ENGAGED. HOSTILITIES COMMENCE.
posted by Hot Pastrami! at 6:46 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Came in here to make sure someone was crapping on Brad Wardell for being the piece of shit subhuman that he is. Did not leave disappointed.
posted by Talez at 10:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Talez at 10:12 PM on February 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
I mean... Is this worth fighting over? I love Star Control but in 2018 is it actually a brand worth multiple lawsuits?
It's something they created, that they're proud of and want to return to. Thinking of everything as a brand is corrosive in many ways, and failing to see that they may naturally want to return to the universe they made is one of those ways.
posted by JHarris at 10:45 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's something they created, that they're proud of and want to return to. Thinking of everything as a brand is corrosive in many ways, and failing to see that they may naturally want to return to the universe they made is one of those ways.
posted by JHarris at 10:45 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
All of you seem to be overlooking the glorious cheese of the Mycon podship. If you use the planet to slingshot you fast enough, you can hurtle through the screen faster than any other ship or projectile to catch. Then just drop guided spore bombs behind you and heal up as needed. The only down side of the technique is that your brother might quit playing out of frustration before you actually blow up his ship.
posted by Panjandrum at 10:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 10:47 PM on February 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Wake me up when there's a reboot of Starflight.
Star Control 2 is largely an elaboration upon and refinement of Starflight. They both had Greg Johnson working on design. (Greg Johnson's one of my personal favorite game guys working, he also helped make ToeJam & Earl, and is working on its sequel now!)
posted by JHarris at 10:49 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Star Control 2 is largely an elaboration upon and refinement of Starflight. They both had Greg Johnson working on design. (Greg Johnson's one of my personal favorite game guys working, he also helped make ToeJam & Earl, and is working on its sequel now!)
posted by JHarris at 10:49 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I remember I was pretty handy with the Ilwrath Avenger, until my brother realized the screen is always centered between the two ships and it's actually trivial to locate while cloaked.
posted by ckape at 10:59 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by ckape at 10:59 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
My favorite was the Orz Nemesis (independent turret AND marines!).
The orz was my favourite also. Notably a backwards pointed cannon fired at a pursuing chmmr avatar, the projectile would have enough speed to get past the avatar’s defensive satellite lasers. The nemesis’s problem was longevity: pretty low max crew plus marines meant you were kinda burning the candle at both ends.
posted by juv3nal at 12:53 AM on February 24, 2018
The orz was my favourite also. Notably a backwards pointed cannon fired at a pursuing chmmr avatar, the projectile would have enough speed to get past the avatar’s defensive satellite lasers. The nemesis’s problem was longevity: pretty low max crew plus marines meant you were kinda burning the candle at both ends.
posted by juv3nal at 12:53 AM on February 24, 2018
Starflight II gave us the Humna Humna and Dweenle, who are some of my favorite aliens in any setting. Plus, the Spemin are great villains. There was an online group trying to do Starflight III but I don't know if it's still active.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:29 AM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 7:29 AM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
The games Stardock designs (as opposed to a couple they merely publish) are vastly overrated which makes it easier to avoid them because of Wardell being a massive dicknozzle.
I'd put him just below cleve and just above derek smart on the Game Designer Asshole list.
posted by Justinian at 10:33 AM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'd put him just below cleve and just above derek smart on the Game Designer Asshole list.
posted by Justinian at 10:33 AM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
I found the (had to google it) the yehat had the best ship -- shields, ultra fast (not great range) guns..
The... Utwig? The one with the shield ability - that might be my vote. My favorite are the "other" Ur-Quan - blades and fireballs, not "launch fighters" - and the Thraddash.
I actually first played SC3 - which is widely agreed to be inferior, but still has a melee mode with a slightly different/expanded set of ships. Later I found out about UQM.
posted by atoxyl at 1:05 PM on February 24, 2018
The... Utwig? The one with the shield ability - that might be my vote. My favorite are the "other" Ur-Quan - blades and fireballs, not "launch fighters" - and the Thraddash.
I actually first played SC3 - which is widely agreed to be inferior, but still has a melee mode with a slightly different/expanded set of ships. Later I found out about UQM.
posted by atoxyl at 1:05 PM on February 24, 2018
You mean Kohr-Ah, atoxyl. Agreed, their ships were insane. Few ships could stand a chance against them, I think I had the most success with Chenjesu.
posted by jklaiho at 1:58 PM on February 24, 2018
posted by jklaiho at 1:58 PM on February 24, 2018
I was a big fan of Galactic Civilizations and GalCiv 2, so it has sucked to find out what a big bag of dicks Brad Wardell is. I certainly won't be giving Stardock any more of my money and I will harvest the schadenfreude as Wardell is told by a judge that he wasted money on a big empty box when he bought Atari's rights to Star Control.
Like others in this thread, I was more of a Starflight fan as well, although I found it from the (excellent but quite different from the PC version) Genesis port. If you're looking to scratch that itch I've had recent luck with Starsector, which is more Escape Velocity than Starflight but you can still get your lonely voyages into the uncaring black. It's still in Early Access Beta and the changes the developer is promising are very... promising.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:30 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Like others in this thread, I was more of a Starflight fan as well, although I found it from the (excellent but quite different from the PC version) Genesis port. If you're looking to scratch that itch I've had recent luck with Starsector, which is more Escape Velocity than Starflight but you can still get your lonely voyages into the uncaring black. It's still in Early Access Beta and the changes the developer is promising are very... promising.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:30 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
skymt: That's not really the case. The only Star Control thing released under the GPL is the source code for The Ur-Quan Masters. The UQM assets (script, graphics, audio) are under a Creative Commons license that disallows commercial use
Ohh! While fact-checking my claim, I was worried about the assets, but I only went so far as checking that it was included in Debian. I was like "Debian is the OS that made Iceweasel because they didn't want to use the trademarked Firefox name. This checks out." I didn't notice that uqm was actually from the "non-free" repo!
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2018
Ohh! While fact-checking my claim, I was worried about the assets, but I only went so far as checking that it was included in Debian. I was like "Debian is the OS that made Iceweasel because they didn't want to use the trademarked Firefox name. This checks out." I didn't notice that uqm was actually from the "non-free" repo!
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 6:46 AM on February 27, 2018
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Also, can't you get The Ur-Quan Masters (essentially Star Control 2) for free? Nobody cares about the other two games (pour one out for the completely forgotten Legend Entertainment) so I'm not sure there's any money to be made selling the old games at this point.
(Brad Wardell is not a rational person from what I can tell so perhaps the question is immaterial).
posted by selfnoise at 11:28 AM on February 23, 2018 [8 favorites]