The mighty Ursus Mark VIII is on display in a North Bay hock shop

February 24, 2018 1:59 PM

Troy Hurtubise's dream of fighting a grizzly in home-made armour still haunts him. So does his fame (cw: some talk of suicidal ideation). Previously: Troy Hurtubise and his inventions.

NFB: Project Grizzly

posted by mandolin conspiracy (29 comments total)

Peak Toxic Masculinity. Write it on your calendar.
posted by klanawa at 2:34 PM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

Weirdly I was just thinking about this guy yesterday.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:54 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

I really hope someone less lazy than I am organises a GoFundMe to reunite Troy with his bear-fighting suit. Or that the suit at least ends up in the Museum of Civilisation rather than a private (and likely foreign) collection.
posted by senor biggles at 3:07 PM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

Peak Toxic Masculinity. Write it on your calendar.

Oh, definitely. Tag added.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:22 PM on February 24, 2018 [4 favorites]

Don't forget about the Dunning–Kruger effect.
posted by jonathanhughes at 3:47 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

The toxic part must be whatever causes people to appreciate the legendary Troy Hurtubise only "ironically". Even if he doesn't like that film, the truth shows through in it for those with eyes to see. Be as skeptical as you like about his various inventions, the man himself is all right.
posted by sfenders at 3:51 PM on February 24, 2018 [4 favorites]

The sense I've always had of him is that he's a very smart man who didn't have access to whole lot of educational opportunities.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:05 PM on February 24, 2018

The sense that I have of him, especially after reading this article, is of someone who can't quite let go of the sort of dreams that you have when you're twelve and inventing a grizzly-proof suit seems like the coolest thing that a person could possibly do.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:11 PM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

Peak Toxic Masculinity. Write it on your calendar.
Don't forget about the Dunning–Kruger effect.
Does anyone else have any pithy phrases they'd like to use to show their lack of empathy?
I'd actually be interested in a discussion about the interplay between concepts of masculinity and outsider or crackpot personalities (as a bit of a crackpot myself). This sort of dismissiveness towards a possibly suicidal person is not such a discussion.
posted by LarsC at 5:21 PM on February 24, 2018 [16 favorites]

The sense I've always had of him is that he's a very smart man who didn't have access to whole lot of educational opportunities.

Ontario post secondary education was pretty heavily subsidized back when he would've no been graduating high school and student loans were readily available. If he'd been able to fit his obsessions into any kind of broader exploration, he may have found a place for his energies.

He sounds pretty narcissistic but this talk of peak toxic masculinity strikes me as kind of twerpish.
posted by bonobothegreat at 5:31 PM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

Peak Toxic Masculinity. Write it on your calendar.
Don't forget about the Dunning–Kruger effect.
Does anyone else have any pithy phrases they'd like to use to show their lack of empathy?
I'd actually be interested in a discussion about the interplay between concepts of masculinity and outsider or crackpot personalities (as a bit of a crackpot myself). This sort of dismissiveness towards a possibly suicidal person is not such a discussion.
posted by LarsC at 5:21 PM on February 24 [1 favorite +] [!]

Yeah, ok. He wants to be Rich and Famous, and live out a LONE. HERO. INVENTOR. fantasy.
It's 100% ego, and a failure to engage with reality in front of him. He wants to be exceptional, but he's not really, so there must be a conspiracy against him. He wants to be given all the praise, and to piss on his critics. His critics are the conventional scientific community who are spending their lives painstakingly putting together one tiny piece of knowledge at a time. That's not good enough for these "inventor" sorts, who want all the credit to themselves, like a Hollywood movie about an inventor.

So, my pithy phrase is that he fails because he refuses to stand on the shoulders of giants.

Instead, he says he might face down a train, holding his Bowie knife and machete, which he dutifully sharpens with a stone and holy water.

“50 km/h, 50 tonnes against me and my knives, should be over really quick,” he says. He does not use the word suicide. He calls it “crossing over.”

[...]

“What am I supposed to do? Is the bear man supposed to work at Tim Hortons? Am I supposed to go on welfare? Fuck that. I’m a warrior. And I mean that. Fuck you too. I’ll cross over before I do that.”

That reads as pretty toxic to me.

I'm sorry that he is having trouble, but it's of his own making, and there are solutions. Therapy was invented for this, and it really really helps people, and my empathy towards him is exactly as deep as his willingness to seek help.
posted by Horkus at 6:07 PM on February 24, 2018 [6 favorites]

Also, I know sometimes I could be clearer on this point:

I see cases like this as the victims of toxic masculinity, not the perpetrators. Toxic masculinity is not a moral failing of an individual person, it is the sea we are all drowning in.
posted by Horkus at 6:14 PM on February 24, 2018 [20 favorites]

Do you know to what extent he has sought help? That therapy would help him? That he could afford it?
His projects are certainly stereotypically, cartoonishly masculine, as is the language he uses to talk about his struggles, but how certain are you that his problems, his quixotic obsessions have their origin in toxic masculinity? Is this true of all would be lone hero inventors?
posted by LarsC at 6:46 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

Does anyone else have any pithy phrases they'd like to use to show their lack of empathy?

Hey, I have an idea. How about not making assumptions about what I mean by toxic masculinity? If you want to have a "discussion" about the "interplay" then by all means, start it.

When I use the term, I use it in the sense of a systemic force that molds men in a way that makes them (including myself) dangerous, stupid and incompatible with a peaceful, modern, equitable society. Of course I realize that this explanation tends to relieve men of their agency and responsibility. Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves, for recognizing that what we do is stupid and hurtful and for changing our ways.

This guy squandered what resources he had on something that was objectively, unbelievably stupid, and refused to quit. People encouraged, exploited and ridiculed him, including here on MetaFilter. It's a sad story. But toxic masculinity writes a lot of sad stories, many of them involving people who didn't have the resources to squander or the power to make the kind of choices this guy did.

how certain are you that his problems, his quixotic obsessions have their origin in toxic masculinity

Might as well stick with the most charitable explanation.

he's a very smart man who didn't have access to whole lot of educational opportunities.

I don't know about you, but I'm not sure anyone needs an education to know that fighting bears is unnecessary.
posted by klanawa at 7:04 PM on February 24, 2018 [5 favorites]

I saw him speak as the keynote the year after he won the Ig Nobel. He gave a 20 minute talk on the iterations he went through to build a suit. I mean - let's be honest - it can take a licking. I *don't* think that it is bear proof in that - I think attacking a bear would mess you up pretty hardcore - and damn - like that bear is already in his head...

He was a neat guy. We waited around after the show/spectacle/lecture to meet him - very surreal, very fun. I don't know if it qualified as actual engineering or just a madman hell bent on fixing a problem that isn't a real problem...

But hey - when they took the battle for Endor sized log and pile drove it into the suit - that was impressive to see him get up from... but impressive in the same way that I'll watch a Johnny Knoxville film... Same with watching him take the truck at 45mph... Its neat and awesome and sad... and now... doubly so.
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:14 PM on February 24, 2018

His projects are certainly stereotypically, cartoonishly masculine, as is the language he uses to talk about his struggles, but how certain are you that his problems, his quixotic obsessions have their origin in toxic masculinity?

Comparing oneself to cartoonishly masculine stereotypes, and then suffering (to the extent of contemplating suicide in this case) when one doesn't live up to expectations is so close to a working definition of toxic masculinity that I don't know how to parse it out. And I don't know anything about the origins of his obsessions, just his inability to be at peace with the outcomes.

Is this true of all would be lone hero inventors?

The hero inventor only exists through the lens of history, and is largely a fiction. The inventors that usually come to mind such as Edison and the Wright Brothers (mentioned in the article) weren't really mavericks. The Wright Brothers were not working in a vacuum, lots of people were working along the same lines at the time and we celebrate the Wrights in retrospect because they were first across the finish line. Edison's contribution to the light bulb (the enduring symbol of invention) was not the idea itself, but organized, rigorous incremental improvement.

The lone inventor as an aspiration is not inherently toxic, nor is it in any way masculine. It's merely inaccurate. You can't really set out to become one, the way you can set out to be an architect or something.

In general it's not dreams that are toxic, it's your behavior when you have to face what is actually happening in your life. Talking in front of your family about "crossing over" by fighting a train because of your thwarted ambitions is pretty toxic, for example. And if you're doing it because you were socialized to believe that Real Men are Strong and do Amazing Things and don't work at Tim Hortons, then it's toxic masculinity.
posted by Horkus at 8:19 PM on February 24, 2018 [7 favorites]

I'd like to add onto my comment above by stating outright--because it's apparently somewhat necessary--that it's not actually always cool to chase the dreams of your inner twelve-year-old, no matter how much that sort of thing tends to get romanticized. I think that it stopped being funny or cool or cute well before he started talking about suicide by train, which is pretty damn traumatic to the train people.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:42 PM on February 24, 2018 [4 favorites]

It is sad, in a way, but obsession usually is. A little frustrated he hasn't quite gotten the grip on the whole "It's no shame to work, and it is REALLY handy" thing. I don't WANT to work some days, but I do, and I just rely on the pride in being a reliable dude that does a good job to offset any more negative emotions about work.
posted by Samizdata at 9:47 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

I had to get a few paragraphs into the article before I realized it was not the bear who would be wearing the armor. It makes a lot more sense now.
posted by stet at 9:48 PM on February 24, 2018 [5 favorites]

Armored bears seems like a worthwhile life obsession.
posted by LarsC at 10:16 PM on February 24, 2018 [3 favorites]

He sees himself in the tradition of Michael Faraday

Mike Faraday, bear-rasslin’ Victorian inventor.
posted by Segundus at 10:40 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

Ask MetaFilter: Could a typical young man, armed only with a knife, (say, six or eight inches long) be trained to consistently "win" fights with a grizzly bear? Assume no element of surprise.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:46 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

That reads as pretty toxic to me.

Say what you will, the world would be a better place if many of the people in it had chosen to fight bears instead.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:49 AM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders. "
posted by Floydd at 6:37 AM on February 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

Ask MetaFilter: Could a typical young man, armed only with a knife, (say, six or eight inches long) be trained to consistently "win" fights with a grizzly bear? Assume no element of surprise.

askme was a whole other world in 2004…
posted by murphy slaw at 10:09 AM on February 25, 2018 [1 favorite]

Yeah, in the age of Donald Trump, this guy's wacky brand of masculinity strikes me as comparatively quaint and harmless.

One suspects his talk of suicide is a misdirected extension of his nonstop puffery and validation-seeking. "Well, I'll show them."
posted by mikeand1 at 11:02 AM on February 25, 2018

> askme was a whole other world in 2004…

very so

(An aside: I wish i'd used Ask-Metafilter more/ever, but i was always confused by "FPP" as implying there was some other 'view' of the site which everyone else was using where such things as non-front-page-changing posts existed, which always made me afraid to engage (since i had obviously never seen the full version of the site that other people were clearly using somehow).

So, no questions asked or answered for me, um, sadly.)
posted by ver at 11:07 AM on February 25, 2018

What if Captain Ahab had never managed to find Moby Dick again?
posted by Going To Maine at 10:09 PM on February 26, 2018

Peak Toxic Masculinity. Write it on your calendar.

Yeah, in the age of Donald Trump, this guy’s wacky brand of masculinity strikes me as comparatively quaint and harmless.

Troy Hurtubise’s primary victim has been himself. Harvey Weinstein, on the contrary, fucked up a lot of people.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:13 PM on February 26, 2018