Twins no more
March 15, 2018 6:20 AM Subscribe
NASA’s Twins Study confirms 7% of astronaut and identical twin Scott Kelly’s DNA remains altered, two years after returning from one year aboard the International Space Station.
“After landing, 93 percent of Scott Kelly’s genes returned to normal, the researchers found. The altered 7 percent, however, could indicate long-term changes in genes connected to the immune system, DNA repair, bone formation networks, oxygen deprivation and elevated carbon dioxide levels.”
Previously
“After landing, 93 percent of Scott Kelly’s genes returned to normal, the researchers found. The altered 7 percent, however, could indicate long-term changes in genes connected to the immune system, DNA repair, bone formation networks, oxygen deprivation and elevated carbon dioxide levels.”
Previously
any word on fantastic new powers like the ability to turn invisible, go all stretchy, or burst into flame?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [46 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 6:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [46 favorites]
So he's 7% extraterrestrial? Awesome.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
He's gonna start melting. Be careful around him as he'll need to start eating human flesh to stop the melting.
posted by NoMich at 6:33 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 6:33 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
Dark they were, and golden eyed.
posted by JanetLand at 6:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 6:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [14 favorites]
So... IANAScientist, ovb.; what are the implications for the sort of sci-fi space colony fantasy? With the rate of mutation jumping up very much, what would be rate of non-viable offspring look like? How much will our evolutionary process ramp up in speed? After three generations, would these folks genetically look much like those left back here/ how long before speciation (right word?) makes it impossible for many of our space humans to reproduce with our Earth humans?
posted by Capybara at 6:42 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by Capybara at 6:42 AM on March 15, 2018
Do we know if anyone has turned into a motorcycle?
posted by snofoam at 6:44 AM on March 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:44 AM on March 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
The altered 7 percent, however, could indicate long-term changes in genes connected to the immune system, DNA repair, bone formation networks, oxygen deprivation and elevated carbon dioxide levels.
Obviously, a total guess on my part, but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited. It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Obviously, a total guess on my part, but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited. It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
His telomeres lengthened? Even if temporarily? How unexpected.
posted by inconstant at 6:49 AM on March 15, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by inconstant at 6:49 AM on March 15, 2018 [10 favorites]
Obviously, a total guess on my part, but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited. It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
They already have. We're a cosmic science experiment on whether monkeys can blow each other to kingdom come.
posted by Talez at 6:50 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
They already have. We're a cosmic science experiment on whether monkeys can blow each other to kingdom come.
posted by Talez at 6:50 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
So... IANAScientist, ovb.; what are the implications for the sort of sci-fi space colony fantasy? . . . After three generations, would these folks genetically look much like those left back here?
I'm no scientist either, but I've seen Total Recall and it's not pretty.
posted by The Bellman at 6:51 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm no scientist either, but I've seen Total Recall and it's not pretty.
posted by The Bellman at 6:51 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sounds like The Expanse got something right.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:52 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:52 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
PERFECT CRIME CHECKLIST, FUTURE EDITION:
1) Do a crime. Leave behind gobs of DNA evidence ON PURPOSE.
2) Immediately leave for a year-long space mission, IN SPACE.
3) Return to Earth, silently gloat as the authorities fail to catch the perp, because you have DIFFERENT DNA now.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2018 [45 favorites]
1) Do a crime. Leave behind gobs of DNA evidence ON PURPOSE.
2) Immediately leave for a year-long space mission, IN SPACE.
3) Return to Earth, silently gloat as the authorities fail to catch the perp, because you have DIFFERENT DNA now.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2018 [45 favorites]
His telomeres lengthened?
This is the real reason techbros want to go to space.
Serious questions, though: are these changes replicated in his sperm? How about in eggs? Do oocytes already contain all the DNA they're going to contain, or could they, too, wind up with the "new" DNA? What would this mean for human reproduction on long space journeys?
posted by uncleozzy at 6:55 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is the real reason techbros want to go to space.
Serious questions, though: are these changes replicated in his sperm? How about in eggs? Do oocytes already contain all the DNA they're going to contain, or could they, too, wind up with the "new" DNA? What would this mean for human reproduction on long space journeys?
posted by uncleozzy at 6:55 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Seriously re: the telomeres, was this just a physical lengthening due to nucleotide expansion in space (or whatever, IANAS) or the actual addition of more nucleotides?
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:58 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:58 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Or consider that the aliens replaced him with a very similar but not exact clone (2" and 7%)
posted by mfoight at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by mfoight at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [13 favorites]
what are the implications for the sort of sci-fi space colony fantasy?
I don't think anyone can answer that yet; what we're seeing here is the edge of our understanding about this subject. The body is generally very good about routing around DNA damage, except when it isn't. So while the long term effects of this sort of thing are unlikely to be positive, it's not clear that they are negative either.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't think anyone can answer that yet; what we're seeing here is the edge of our understanding about this subject. The body is generally very good about routing around DNA damage, except when it isn't. So while the long term effects of this sort of thing are unlikely to be positive, it's not clear that they are negative either.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
We're a cosmic science experiment on whether monkeys can blow each other to kingdom come.
Don't be ridiculous.
Clearly they gave us the internet as a test to see if we could handle evolving to the next level of multidimensional beings, duh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Don't be ridiculous.
Clearly they gave us the internet as a test to see if we could handle evolving to the next level of multidimensional beings, duh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
PERFECT CRIME CHECKLIST, FUTURE EDITION:
1) Do a crime. Leave behind gobs of DNA evidence ON PURPOSE.
2) Immediately leave for a year-long space mission, IN SPACE.
3) Return to Earth, silently gloat as the authorities fail to catch the perp, because you have DIFFERENT DNA now.
This has to be a future Law & Order SVU episode. Or a Maury Povich "you, are NOT, the father" special.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:06 AM on March 15, 2018
1) Do a crime. Leave behind gobs of DNA evidence ON PURPOSE.
2) Immediately leave for a year-long space mission, IN SPACE.
3) Return to Earth, silently gloat as the authorities fail to catch the perp, because you have DIFFERENT DNA now.
This has to be a future Law & Order SVU episode. Or a Maury Povich "you, are NOT, the father" special.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:06 AM on March 15, 2018
I thought just the expression levels of some of his genes changed, not the genetic content itself. Which is interesting, but far less dramatic.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
now can we please give up on our little star trek fantasies and set about making the one planet we have a place of health, justice, equality and beauty
posted by entropicamericana at 7:10 AM on March 15, 2018 [18 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 7:10 AM on March 15, 2018 [18 favorites]
Okay, I hate this "7% of his DNA has been altered" factoid, because it doesn't mean anything. 7% of his what? Base pairs? Total number of "genes"? Gene expression? Alterations within a gene? What? You'll often see numbers bandied about along the lines of "humans and apes differ by 1.2% of their genetic material". By that measure, at 7%, would the guy even be a mammal anymore?
Well, I guess we'll have to wait for the summary paper to be released, which is apparently such a complex operation that it needs to have its own swooshy-sciencey protein-folding style infographic in a fucking Newsweek article, ffs.
posted by phooky at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [33 favorites]
Well, I guess we'll have to wait for the summary paper to be released, which is apparently such a complex operation that it needs to have its own swooshy-sciencey protein-folding style infographic in a fucking Newsweek article, ffs.
posted by phooky at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [33 favorites]
I am seeing this covered a lot as "7% of his genes are different now", and I'd just like to clarify right off the bat that this is about differences in the *expression* of their genes. If 7% of his genes were different, he'd be a different species.
posted by pemberkins at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [47 favorites]
posted by pemberkins at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [47 favorites]
It's worth noting that the article is misleading in a couple ways:
Firstly, it's not 7% of Kelly's DNA that remains altered (that would be a level of mutation that would probably not be survivable). It's not even 7% of all of his genes that are altered. It's 7% of the genes that were altered that have not returned to normal since he returned. (So if 10% of his genes showed changes , then .7% of his genes would remain altered).
Secondly, there's no mutation here. The actual genetic code remains unaltered. What's changed is the expression of the genes. A gene is just a section of DNA that acts as a template for a protein, and not all of them are actively producing proteins all the time. It's the pattern of which genes are turned on and off that has changed. This is certainly interesting, but isn't necessarily ground-breaking. We already knew that this pattern of expression changed in response to all sorts of stresses, and some of those changes could be permanent.
posted by firechicago at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [56 favorites]
Firstly, it's not 7% of Kelly's DNA that remains altered (that would be a level of mutation that would probably not be survivable). It's not even 7% of all of his genes that are altered. It's 7% of the genes that were altered that have not returned to normal since he returned. (So if 10% of his genes showed changes , then .7% of his genes would remain altered).
Secondly, there's no mutation here. The actual genetic code remains unaltered. What's changed is the expression of the genes. A gene is just a section of DNA that acts as a template for a protein, and not all of them are actively producing proteins all the time. It's the pattern of which genes are turned on and off that has changed. This is certainly interesting, but isn't necessarily ground-breaking. We already knew that this pattern of expression changed in response to all sorts of stresses, and some of those changes could be permanent.
posted by firechicago at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [56 favorites]
This is why I carry a DNA swab test kit everywhere I go.
This way, I can tell which one is the good guy, and which one I should shoot.
posted by Naberius at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
This way, I can tell which one is the good guy, and which one I should shoot.
posted by Naberius at 7:11 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Look, I thought this was settled decades ago in the DeVito-Schwarzenegger experiment.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by the phlegmatic king at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
"About 7 percent of Scott's genes may have longer-term changes in expression after spaceflight, in areas such as DNA repair, the immune system, how bones are formed, hypoxia (an oxygen deficiency in the tissues) and hypercapnia (excessive carbon dioxide in the bloodstream). The other 93 percent of his genes quickly returned to normal."
posted by pemberkins at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by pemberkins at 7:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
The title of this FPP is hugely mistaken: changes in 7% of his genes, as reported by the linked article, is far different from 7% of his DNA being changed. Humans and chimpanzee DNA is 96% identical for heaven's sake! An average gene is what, a thousand base pairs or something?
Nonetheless it's an interesting story. If I find some more time today I will try and dig up something more scientific than Newsweek on this.
posted by exogenous at 7:14 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Nonetheless it's an interesting story. If I find some more time today I will try and dig up something more scientific than Newsweek on this.
posted by exogenous at 7:14 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Whatever horror movie this is, it beats politics.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:20 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 7:20 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
PERFECT CRIME CHECKLIST, FUTURE EDITION:
Well, we just figured out Elon Musk's deal.
posted by drezdn at 7:24 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, we just figured out Elon Musk's deal.
posted by drezdn at 7:24 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
The title of this FPP is hugely mistaken
In my defense, Scott Kelly himself said, "I no longer have to call @ShuttleCDRKelly my identical twin brother anymore."
posted by slipthought at 7:25 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
In my defense, Scott Kelly himself said, "I no longer have to call @ShuttleCDRKelly my identical twin brother anymore."
posted by slipthought at 7:25 AM on March 15, 2018 [8 favorites]
It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
Maybe, but I would think any aliens that could figure out how to get here would either also figure out how to prevent this from happening, or be like space tardigrades that are better adapted to deal with the change.
posted by drezdn at 7:28 AM on March 15, 2018
Maybe, but I would think any aliens that could figure out how to get here would either also figure out how to prevent this from happening, or be like space tardigrades that are better adapted to deal with the change.
posted by drezdn at 7:28 AM on March 15, 2018
>The altered 7 percent, however, could indicate long-term changes in genes connected to the immune system, DNA repair, bone formation networks, oxygen deprivation and elevated carbon dioxide levels.
Obviously, a total guess on my part, but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited. It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
You think if it was more than 7% they'd come?
posted by nubs at 7:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Obviously, a total guess on my part, but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited. It's too far and too expensive, with little return.
You think if it was more than 7% they'd come?
posted by nubs at 7:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
"If I share 50% of my genes with my sister, and 96% of my genes with a chimp, does that mean I'm more closely related to the chimp than to her?"
(I used that when I MC'd my sister's wedding.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
(I used that when I MC'd my sister's wedding.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
(When you ask your 20-year-old little brother to MC your wedding, you get what you pay for.)
posted by clawsoon at 7:36 AM on March 15, 2018 [25 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 7:36 AM on March 15, 2018 [25 favorites]
As if a switch had been turned, as if an eye had been blinked, as if some phantom force in the universe had made a move eons beyond our comprehension, suddenly, there was no trail! There was no giant, no monster, no thing called "Kelly" to be followed. There was nothing in the tunnel but the puzzled men of courage, who suddenly found themselves alone with shadows and darkness! With the telegram, one cloud lifts, and another descends. Astronaut Scott Kelly, rescued, alive, well, and of normal size, some 8,000 miles away in a lifeboat, with no memory of where he has been, or how he was separated from his capsule! Then who, or what, has landed here? Is it here yet? Or has the cosmic switch been pulled? Case in point: The line between science fiction and science fact is microscopically thin! You have witnessed the line being shaved even thinner! But is the menace with us? Or is the monster gone?
posted by SansPoint at 7:39 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 7:39 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
His telomeres lengthened?
Radiation. Yes indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you... pernicious nonsense! Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year! They ought to have them, too.
posted by flabdablet at 7:54 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Radiation. Yes indeed. You hear the most outrageous lies about it. Half baked goggle-box do-gooders telling everybody it's bad for you... pernicious nonsense! Everybody could stand a hundred chest X-rays a year! They ought to have them, too.
posted by flabdablet at 7:54 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
nucleotide expansion in space
Moon law applies, brushing away the onerous, treacherous regulations and hidden politico-corporate structures that have stifled telomere growth and innovation and enslavied free men to the land for thousands of years.
posted by riverlife at 7:55 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Moon law applies, brushing away the onerous, treacherous regulations and hidden politico-corporate structures that have stifled telomere growth and innovation and enslavied free men to the land for thousands of years.
posted by riverlife at 7:55 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, we just figured out Elon Musk's deal.
I have to admit, sending your car-shaped crime scene into space is more convenient than going to space yourself.
posted by Ashenmote at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
I have to admit, sending your car-shaped crime scene into space is more convenient than going to space yourself.
posted by Ashenmote at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
His telomeres lengthened? Even if temporarily? How unexpected.
No gravity pulling them down, you see.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on March 15, 2018
No gravity pulling them down, you see.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on March 15, 2018
As Astronaut Scott Kelly and Russian Cosmonaut Mikhail Kornienko orbited the Earth, they were among the few spared from the Invasion of April 2015; 7 billion humans hunted down and replaced by their alien almost-duplicates.
posted by otherchaz at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by otherchaz at 8:08 AM on March 15, 2018 [9 favorites]
By that measure, at 7%, would the guy even be a mammal anymore?
Wait until you see him give live birth to his young.
posted by 7segment at 8:17 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
Wait until you see him give live birth to his young.
posted by 7segment at 8:17 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
This has to be a future Law & Order SVU episode
Holy shit you guys
SPACE VICTIMS UNIT
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [20 favorites]
Holy shit you guys
SPACE VICTIMS UNIT
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on March 15, 2018 [20 favorites]
Can confirm; went to space, came back as a newt.
I have a feeling this will show up in a horror film down the road and I'm sure that it will get the life extension folks in a
tizzy
posted by Query at 8:33 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have a feeling this will show up in a horror film down the road and I'm sure that it will get the life extension folks in a
tizzy
posted by Query at 8:33 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
The Newsweek article is so inaccurate it should be taken down immediately. Lots of things have the potential to change the expression levels of large numbers of genes for long periods of time. For example I've heard that corticosteroids, which are drugs that mimic cortisol and are frequently used to treat asthma, allergies, autoimmune diseases, and to prevent transplant rejection, can change expression levels of over 10% of genes. That doesn't mean that someone who's given prednisolone for a chest infection has had their DNA altered.
posted by kersplunk at 8:38 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by kersplunk at 8:38 AM on March 15, 2018 [6 favorites]
This has to be a future Law & Order SVU episode.
Law & Order: Space Vacuum Universe
Law & Order: Seminal Vesicle Unit
Law & Order: Science Very Unlikely
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Law & Order: Space Vacuum Universe
Law & Order: Seminal Vesicle Unit
Law & Order: Science Very Unlikely
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
On the other hand the telomere thing is interesting.
posted by kersplunk at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by kersplunk at 8:41 AM on March 15, 2018
Twins no more
Um, changing genes doesn’t alter the fact that you were gestated and born at the same time. You’d still be a twin even if the two of you had different fathers.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:46 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Moon law applies, brushing away the onerous, treacherous regulations and hidden politico-corporate structures that have stifled telomere growth and innovation and enslavied free men to the land for thousands of years.
Someone check his ship and/or his spacesuit-- was there gold fringe on the flag??????
posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Someone check his ship and/or his spacesuit-- was there gold fringe on the flag??????
posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
The Newsweek article is so inaccurate it should be taken down immediately.
Really? I have a hard time believing that a once great journalistic institution that was sold off on the value of its brand after the collapse of mainstream print journalism and ultimately ended up as the mouthpiece of a shadowy Korean cult leader with former ties to the Unification Church wouldn't be fastidious in its fact checking...
posted by Naberius at 9:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Really? I have a hard time believing that a once great journalistic institution that was sold off on the value of its brand after the collapse of mainstream print journalism and ultimately ended up as the mouthpiece of a shadowy Korean cult leader with former ties to the Unification Church wouldn't be fastidious in its fact checking...
posted by Naberius at 9:09 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
So, the Newsweek article isn't an example of science journalism at its finest?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:10 AM on March 15, 2018
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:10 AM on March 15, 2018
If you framed it the other way, you could say 93% of his space-altered genes have reverted back to normal after just two years, which sounds pretty decent, all things considered.
posted by mantecol at 9:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mantecol at 9:12 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
> Brandon Blatcher:
"but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited"
Assuming aliens experience time the same way we do and have DNA based genetic code. Both of which are pretty big suppositions: we have currently living earthling organisms over 80,000 years old, and also some biologically immortal organisms. I don't see any reason to believe DNA is a universal.
posted by signal at 9:56 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
"but this plus the vast distances probably explains why aliens haven't visited"
Assuming aliens experience time the same way we do and have DNA based genetic code. Both of which are pretty big suppositions: we have currently living earthling organisms over 80,000 years old, and also some biologically immortal organisms. I don't see any reason to believe DNA is a universal.
posted by signal at 9:56 AM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
We're a cosmic science experiment on whether monkeys can blow each other to kingdom come.
The monkey in the corner wrote the joke down in his book.
posted by eustacescrubb at 10:00 AM on March 15, 2018
The monkey in the corner wrote the joke down in his book.
posted by eustacescrubb at 10:00 AM on March 15, 2018
I have a daughter who feels very strongly that this research needs to be replicated by NASA with female identical twins and another daughter willing to serve as a control group.
posted by straight at 10:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by straight at 10:01 AM on March 15, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'm impressed that the twin pushing for further research isn't the same one volunteering as a control.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:21 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:21 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
As the slightly older brother of twin sisters, I often "volunteered" as the control for dangerous research I convinced my sister sister to do.
posted by sideshow at 10:36 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sideshow at 10:36 AM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Ars Technica writer John Timmer wrote a good response that helped me understand what actually happened:
Scott Kelly’s medical monitoring has spawned some horrific press coverage
Analysis: Don't believe the headlines. And in many cases, the articles below them.
posted by Harpocrates at 11:14 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
Scott Kelly’s medical monitoring has spawned some horrific press coverage
Analysis: Don't believe the headlines. And in many cases, the articles below them.
posted by Harpocrates at 11:14 AM on March 15, 2018 [7 favorites]
hypoxia (an oxygen deficiency in the tissues) and hypercapnia (excessive carbon dioxide in the bloodstream).
In his book Scott Kelly discusses in detail his ongoing concerns about the CO2 scrubbing mechanisms. Seems like one very fixable issue, and should be a major design factor on longer missions to the moon and mars.
posted by sammyo at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2018
In his book Scott Kelly discusses in detail his ongoing concerns about the CO2 scrubbing mechanisms. Seems like one very fixable issue, and should be a major design factor on longer missions to the moon and mars.
posted by sammyo at 11:49 AM on March 15, 2018
now can we please give up on our little star trek fantasies and set about making the one planet we have a place of health, justice, equality and beauty
We're well on our way to such a world, via a process known as "human extinction"
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2018
We're well on our way to such a world, via a process known as "human extinction"
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2018
I thought this was settled decades ago in the DeVito-Schwarzenegger experiment.
They're working on an extension to the experiment, and (excuse my clickbait) you'll never guess who the 'third twin' is (actually, maybe you can).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:45 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
They're working on an extension to the experiment, and (excuse my clickbait) you'll never guess who the 'third twin' is (actually, maybe you can).
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:45 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
I thought this was settled decades ago in the DeVito-Schwarzenegger experiment.
They're working on an extension to the experiment, and (excuse my clickbait) you'll never guess who the 'third twin' is (actually, maybe you can).
I knew this month's National Geographic cover had to be stealth viral product placement for something.
posted by straight at 1:53 PM on March 15, 2018
They're working on an extension to the experiment, and (excuse my clickbait) you'll never guess who the 'third twin' is (actually, maybe you can).
I knew this month's National Geographic cover had to be stealth viral product placement for something.
posted by straight at 1:53 PM on March 15, 2018
Why on earth did "Twins" need an extra triplet decades later?!?!
Also, uh...the implications of that third just made me *wince.* Dude, what are you thinking to sign on to that?
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2018
Also, uh...the implications of that third just made me *wince.* Dude, what are you thinking to sign on to that?
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2018
NASA has been trying very hard for a long time to do serious biology, and hell there isn't much else that could plausibly be productively done with the last few years of our glorified hotel in Low Earth Orbit. However, just how consistently and uniquely embarrasing their science communication is for everyone involved with biological topics has become beyond pathetic. NASA just cant seem to stop making themselves and everyone associated with them look like idiots.
Its more than just the science communication though, the ecology, molecular biology, ext itself that they fund notoriously underperforms relative to equivalent NSF grants. At what point of manifest public disfunction does enough become enough to attract congressional oversight?
posted by Blasdelb at 3:54 PM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Its more than just the science communication though, the ecology, molecular biology, ext itself that they fund notoriously underperforms relative to equivalent NSF grants. At what point of manifest public disfunction does enough become enough to attract congressional oversight?
posted by Blasdelb at 3:54 PM on March 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Congressional oversight? Surely NASA would be better off with oversight from any ten random high-school science teachers?
posted by straight at 6:11 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 6:11 PM on March 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Newsweek article is so inaccurate it should be taken down immediately.
Anyone unhappy with Newsweek or other coverage should be blaming NASA. I was pissed at them this morning driving to work--I'd seen this post and clicked through to the press release, but had to sublimate my venting about it so I wasn't late. Happily they've at least updated it in the last 12 hours.
This is the piece that Newsweek linked to and the "update" making it clear this was about gene expression was not there this morning. I read the thing knowing from first principles it had to be about gene expression and it was still confusing as hell. The only comment on expression is not by the 7% change number, which repeatedly refers to genes. Furthermore they talk about legitimate DNA changes elsewhere (telomeres lengthening and mutations) so you have to be pretty confident in what sort of experiments were probably done *and* that there was nothing actually surprising going to be found.
Note their also update clarifies that this is nothing surprising--like SCUBA diving level of changes. The actual message should be "no huge discoveries" but that's not how they roll. NASA was an early adopter of misleading descriptions in press releases, now SOP among university PR offices. The communications office aims to promote these institutions' brands, not educate the public.
Since Timmer at Ars Technica puts the blame only on the press, lets be clear how NASA actually described this:
We need better science reporting, yes. But we need to stop letting researchers and institutions off the hook when they describe their work so sloppily.
posted by mark k at 8:41 PM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Anyone unhappy with Newsweek or other coverage should be blaming NASA. I was pissed at them this morning driving to work--I'd seen this post and clicked through to the press release, but had to sublimate my venting about it so I wasn't late. Happily they've at least updated it in the last 12 hours.
This is the piece that Newsweek linked to and the "update" making it clear this was about gene expression was not there this morning. I read the thing knowing from first principles it had to be about gene expression and it was still confusing as hell. The only comment on expression is not by the 7% change number, which repeatedly refers to genes. Furthermore they talk about legitimate DNA changes elsewhere (telomeres lengthening and mutations) so you have to be pretty confident in what sort of experiments were probably done *and* that there was nothing actually surprising going to be found.
Note their also update clarifies that this is nothing surprising--like SCUBA diving level of changes. The actual message should be "no huge discoveries" but that's not how they roll. NASA was an early adopter of misleading descriptions in press releases, now SOP among university PR offices. The communications office aims to promote these institutions' brands, not educate the public.
Since Timmer at Ars Technica puts the blame only on the press, lets be clear how NASA actually described this:
Another interesting finding concerned what some call the “space gene”, which was alluded to in 2017. Researchers now know that 93% of Scott’s genes returned to normal after landing. However, the remaining 7% point to possible longer term changes in genes related to his immune system, DNA repair, bone formation networks, hypoxia, and hypercapnia.Context doesn't help--the word "expression" appears only once, three paragraphs earlier, not obviously connected to the quote above.
We need better science reporting, yes. But we need to stop letting researchers and institutions off the hook when they describe their work so sloppily.
posted by mark k at 8:41 PM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
NASA just cant seem to stop making themselves and everyone associated with them look like idiots.
We're so lucky to have Eric Dubay to blow the lid off their shenanigans.
posted by flabdablet at 10:13 PM on March 15, 2018
We're so lucky to have Eric Dubay to blow the lid off their shenanigans.
posted by flabdablet at 10:13 PM on March 15, 2018
Washington Post, The truth about astronaut Scott Kelly’s viral ‘space genes’
posted by slipthought at 9:00 AM on March 16, 2018
posted by slipthought at 9:00 AM on March 16, 2018
Harpocrates' link above to the ArsTechnica takedown needs a lot more attention.
The WaPo piece is OK but ArsTechnica does a better job of it.
And yeah NASA's sloppy PR contributed.
posted by intermod at 10:27 PM on March 16, 2018
The WaPo piece is OK but ArsTechnica does a better job of it.
And yeah NASA's sloppy PR contributed.
posted by intermod at 10:27 PM on March 16, 2018
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posted by GallonOfAlan at 6:22 AM on March 15, 2018 [3 favorites]