The Inexorable Rise of Identity Condiments
August 12, 2018 7:41 PM   Subscribe

 
Lol I just bought some Kewpie mayo the other day from ichi ban kan. This is an interesting article.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:49 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Man, this is a really incisive skewering of the entitlement and anxiety of older generations. A+ satire... wait what... it's serious? Oh.
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:51 PM on August 12 [90 favorites]


My 60something mother hates mayo just like her father did. But it does seem like turning down mayonnaise has gotten less unusual over the years. When I was a kid it was sort of embarrassing and eccentric how my mom wouldn't eat that stuff, to the point of sending meals back at restaurants, and now it's much less of a staple ingredient.

But like, don't most places just mix in some garlic or sriracha and call it aioli? My mom won't eat aioli either.
posted by potrzebie at 7:53 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


Tricked me into opening an article with the words "millenials" and "killed" in the headline.
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:53 PM on August 12 [38 favorites]


Kind of disappointed that there wasn't an actual political distinction that could be drawn from Mayo vs. non-Mayo types. I like the phrase "identity condiments".

I think all those recipes she mentioned sound really old-fashioned and I always hesitate to try anything mayonnaise-y at a picnic just because half the time it is made with miracle whip and that makes me want to vomit.

I think the changing tastes may be away from "salad" type recipes described rather than from mayo itself. Artisianl mayo seems to be doing well. "Chipotle spread" which is mentioned in the article is just mayo plus chipotle chili powder. I say that in a non-pejorative way, because when I figured this out I started making it myself and it's great.
posted by skewed at 7:54 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


1948 headline: “Returning Soldiers Killing Italian Rarebit”
Last lines of 1948 article: “You know that pizza you strutting cocksure children like so much? It’s just Italian rarebit.”
posted by infinitewindow at 7:55 PM on August 12 [37 favorites]


Most American condiment? What are you, French Canadian?

(This is a pretty fun article, despite the click-batey title and opening. Also, I have a regular supply of French mayo in the house thanks to my potential mother in law's care packages. I like Hellman's or what have you fine on a sandwich, but there's a reason French folks put theirs on everything. It is the stuff of dreams)
posted by es_de_bah at 8:00 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


To be fair I too have run out of ideas when I had something I had to write, and reached into the things-are-different-from-when-I-was-a-kid well. It's been giving us opinion pieces for the last several thousand years.
posted by runcibleshaw at 8:11 PM on August 12 [15 favorites]


The way things were done when I was young -- that was the right way to do things. The way things were done before then was just a preamble. The way things have been done since is a desecration.
posted by chasing at 8:18 PM on August 12 [55 favorites]


Wtf, this person has never tasted Just Mayo. Just Mayo is far superior to Hellman's and it tastes like homemade mayonnaise. I got my Chinese mother to try kewpie mayonnaise. I feel quite successful in the mayo identity realm.

Also I'm 26, a Women and Gender Studies's graduate who is currently learning to be a self-taught developer. That whole excerpt caused me to wince! I will totally explode your editorial!
posted by yueliang at 8:20 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Identity condiments, indeed. I think there are definite regional trends. In Southern families (at least Tidewater), it’s Dukes, not Hellmans, although my father (Charleston) preferred Durkees - not actually mayo, but mostly. My wife’s family (most definitely not Southerners) prefers MW which is, to me, not mayo, too sweet, particularly for salads like Waldorf, egg, potato, etc. Hellmans ... meh.
posted by sudogeek at 8:20 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


Maybe I need to try these handcrafted mayo because no American mass made mayo beats the Japanese kewpie one
posted by cendawanita at 8:21 PM on August 12 [8 favorites]


Is it okay not to like a thing, though. I tried aioli and I still think it’s just mayonnaise in the Witness Protection Program.

The writer doesn’t specifically discuss the fact that “mayonnaise” is now a slang term for something excessively white, like the name Brayden or calling the cops on a black family’s party.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:21 PM on August 12 [40 favorites]


If you don't eat mayonnaise, how do you keep your bread from being soggy by lunchtime?
posted by axiom at 8:26 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


All I can say is that I'm having a salmon salad (with either mayo or miracle whip -whichever is in the fridge) for lunch tomorrow and identity condiments won't stop me.
posted by muddgirl at 8:26 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


I...was under the impression that mayonnaise was doing fairly well, actually? I mean, that Just Mayo stuff, and Serious Eats indicates that one can make a grilled cheese with mayonnaise instead of butter, and so on. (Just Mayo is really good. It doesn't quite - to me - taste like mayonnaise, but it's close enough that on an actual sandwich it doesn't matter. And it tastes nothing like Miracle Whip at all, at all.)

I feel like the author may be mistaking performative mayo-hatred for actual hatred of mayonnaise. My bet is that everyone who is all "Lol mayo so slimy how can you be so gross as to eat the unfashionable foodstuffs" on twitter still eats, eg, egg salad or mayo on a BLT or whatever.
posted by Frowner at 8:27 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


You know lady, I’m just saying, my deviled eggs get eaten down to the very last one before I can even get one and there is absolutely mayo in that recipe. And potato salad with mayo and cool potatoes was a huge hit at a recent activist barbecue full of millennial. People these days just also add /spice/. Like I know it’s your mom’s recipe, but maybe it’s the recipe and not the condiment at fault?
posted by corb at 8:27 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Virginia raised. Duke’s is the mayo you buy if you’re not gonna make it fresh. Either way it makes a superior grilled cheese. The poshy avocado oil stuff is pretty good also.
posted by a halcyon day at 8:30 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


Mayo is keto. Sorry that no one likes your mom's recipes (or, to dribble a little more lemon juice on the paper cut, your versions thereof) any more.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:33 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


The strongest opinion I have about mayonnaise is that I prefer butter on grilled cheese sandwiches because mayo just tastes greasy instead of buttery.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:34 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


I'm impressed the author held off to almost the last page to drop the inevitable "condimental divide."
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 8:35 PM on August 12 [21 favorites]


Now I really want, like, maybe, crab salad on a toasted roll.
posted by Frowner at 8:37 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


I just feel so terrible for the author’s daughter, who must have sat through so many family gatherings being shamed for not liking grandma’s special recipes, not to mention having an impractical major, why can’t you be more practical like your brother. Author’s daughter, if you are still in Philly, I see you and I feel this family dynamic so hard. Let’s get coffee sometime and talk about being the daughters of feminist moms who nevertheless have a lot of internalized sexism and organize the millennial death squad to finally take down Big Mayo.
posted by ActionPopulated at 8:44 PM on August 12 [75 favorites]


Previously in "millenials" are "killing"
posted by panhopticon at 8:46 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Can we not link to hate reads please?
posted by GuyZero at 8:53 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


I can't be the only one who read like half the article, then closed it thinking "who fucking CARES?"

I foolishly expecting this FPP to get 0 comments. Silly me.


Mefi loves a good food fight and a good olds vs youngs fight. Forgiveness please.
posted by some loser at 8:55 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Can we have a two minute hate against honey mustard?
posted by thelonius at 8:57 PM on August 12 [23 favorites]


I once ruined my mayo-hating friends breakfast by saying "you know, Hollandaise is basically just hot mayo. Eggs, fat, acid..."
posted by Grandysaur at 9:02 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


Can we have a two minute hate against honey mustard?

Any time of the goddamn day or night. Two minutes every hour if you want.
posted by aramaic at 9:22 PM on August 12 [6 favorites]


I, as a kid, loved peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwiches.

I, as an adult, am 1) surprised I've survived this long and 2) am tempted to re-create that from scratch — PB and M and maybe the bread too. I bet it'd be tasty.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:23 PM on August 12 [1 favorite]


Ah, Metafilter's favorite subject: Other people's food choices.
posted by rocket88 at 9:25 PM on August 12 [33 favorites]


French mayo is also legitimately good. Loved every sandwich I had there, especially with proper bread made with high-protein flour, none of the weird soft stuff we have in the States.
posted by yueliang at 9:32 PM on August 12 [2 favorites]


Hells, no
my mom’s macaroni salad is bangin’
raw fish and pork belly and, yo, detergent pods

The style here is so painfully white and "hello, fellow teens". She's not helping her argument.
posted by naju at 9:35 PM on August 12 [25 favorites]


I think all those recipes she mentioned sound really old-fashioned and I always hesitate to try anything mayonnaise-y at a picnic just because half the time it is made with miracle whip and that makes me want to vomit.

Oh, I thought you were going to hesitate with mayo stuff at picnics because unless your picnicking in Antarctica, it's not recommended to keep mayo products unrefrigerated for more than a couple of hours.

Which makes me wonder why are mayonnaise-y things like macaroni salad even taken to picnics in the first place. Shouldn't picnic foods be those that don't tend to spoil in a couple of hours?
posted by FJT at 9:37 PM on August 12 [5 favorites]


Which makes me wonder why are mayonnaise-y things like macaroni salad even taken to picnics in the first place. Shouldn't picnic foods be those that don't tend to spoil in a couple of hours?

Commercial mayo has enough acid in it that it's actually a preservative. (At least at the durations you're talking about.) Homemade mayo is a different story...
posted by asterix at 10:00 PM on August 12 [7 favorites]


I literally hated mayo but loved egg salad and kefir as, like, a seven-year-old kid. This article made me so much grumpier than I was expecting, which was already kind of a lot having read all the comments first.
posted by augustimagination at 10:17 PM on August 12


I came here just to say that I make my own mayonnaise, and that's my identity dammit.
posted by kandinski at 10:24 PM on August 12 [4 favorites]


Nothing sticks out. Mayonnaise isn’t bland; it’s artfully blended. It’s an evocation of the era I grew up in, of the homogeneity of that old, dead American dream.
[...]
Instead, they’re gobbling up kefir and ajvar and chimichurri and gochujang again.
[...]
Do you think 23andMe and MyHeritage and all those other DNA testing companies are flourishing because people want to find out their ancestors came from Aberdeen? Hells, no; they wannabe from Marrakesh or Manchuria or Malawi.
[...]
Published as “The White Stuff” in the August 2018 issue of Philadelphia magazine.


I have no way of telling whether this is using a petty conflict over condiments as a clever vehicle for talking about how boomer-era-nostalgia is often a thinly veiled expression of white supremacy, or if it really is just them projecting all of their internalized xenophobia onto this one inconsequential thing.
posted by cwill at 10:26 PM on August 12 [57 favorites]


My favorite part of this old-man-yells-at-cloud bit is when there is all this handwringing over how millennials are killing Applebee's and TGIF.

Like, good riddance. Let's just float them all in an ice flow of mayo.

Mayo is trash sauce.
posted by jonnay at 10:35 PM on August 12


"You may have noticed youth’s similar circumvention of gelled salads"

Oh my god.
posted by BinaryApe at 10:40 PM on August 12 [12 favorites]


Yeah, I'm GenX and have hated Jell-O salad since forever because it sucks.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:22 PM on August 12 [19 favorites]


The biggest factor for me would have to be those spoilage concerns. Summertime, outside picnics, family gatherings, that's where a lot of the salads and dishes that involve mayo make their appearance.
A lot of the older people in my extended family, they grew up in different times, they don't tend to think about how long food's been sitting out in the same way me and my younger cousins etc do.
Vinegar preservative or otherwise, grandma's potato salad, delicious though it is, may sit out for 8 hours. That's suspicious, even if I might end up having another go anyway.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 11:24 PM on August 12 [3 favorites]


What is even in French mayonnaise? It tastes like straight turpentine to me, but either way they're doing something different. What is it?
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:38 PM on August 12


I don't understand what's happening here.
posted by bongo_x at 11:44 PM on August 12 [10 favorites]


Wake me back up when we get to “Millennials are killing ‘millennials are killing’ thinkpieces”
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:46 PM on August 12 [21 favorites]


I'm surprised that people aren't reading most of this as firmly tongue in cheek, especially the son/daughter pull quote for the post.

later:
You don’t taste egg in Hellmann’s, the taster explained. You don’t taste oil, or vinegar: “All the flavors blend together. They’re balanced. Nothing sticks out. Everything is appropriate.”

Nothing sticks out. Mayonnaise isn’t bland; it’s artfully blended. It’s an evocation of the era I grew up in, of the homogeneity of that old, dead American dream.
and
newer generations are refusing to meekly fall in line with a culinary heritage that never was theirs.
She does poke fun at millennials along the way as well, and writes the piece in faux "old man yells at cloud" style, but talking about the homogeneity of the old, dead American dream isn't anti-youth yearning for the good old days.
posted by taz at 11:55 PM on August 12 [16 favorites]


Can we have a two minute hate against honey mustard?

Absolutely not but we can for Dijon.
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:15 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Duke’s is the mayo you buy if you’re not gonna make it fresh.

I’m going to go a bit farther and say that Duke’s is even better than homemade. I could eat that stuff straight out of the jar with a spoon.

Absolutely not but we can for Dijon.

What??? Why????????
posted by lollymccatburglar at 12:20 AM on August 13


The writer doesn’t specifically discuss the fact that “mayonnaise” is now a slang term for something excessively white, like the name Brayden or calling the cops on a black family’s party.

Yeah, I wonder how much of Big Mayo’s demise can be traced to mayo being used as a white person detector in the movie Undercover Brother. It could be like the movie Sideways killing Merlot.
posted by sideshow at 12:51 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


But what do you dip French fries in? Mayo.
posted by eyeofthetiger at 1:28 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


I hate mayo but love Miracle Whip. Ok, talk to you later.
posted by johnpowell at 2:09 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]


Mayo is pretty bland as identity condiments go. For that sharp political bite, you want Dijon mustard.
posted by flabdablet at 2:25 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Can the next thing that millenniasl kill be the bloated, entitled, whining boomers that complain about millennials killing things?

Come on peeps, apparently you can kill anything. I believe in you.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:07 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Why can't those goshdurned snake-people just get off my lawn and identify themselves by wearing a uniform associated with a musical genre like normal kids did?
posted by acb at 3:23 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I wonder how much of Big Mayo’s demise can be traced to mayo being used as a white person detector in the movie Undercover Brother

Maybe the tiki-torch garbage-Nazis will start performatively eating a lot of it, in the way that some of them performatively drink milk by the gallon to demonstrate their superior Aryan lactose tolerance.
posted by acb at 3:31 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Making your own mayonnaise is a thing you can do, maybe not everyday, but it's one of those fascinating, rewarding kitchen alchemy processes where a couple of very common items emulsify into something totally different.

For extra fun, search around for discussions of making mayonnaise in a thunderstorm.

That said, the mayonnaise people deal with every day is a highly commercialized product, findable in just about every small-town gas station in the U.S. If you're looking for an alternative to "white bread America", it's not surprising that you'd turn away from the most common thing to spread on that white bread.

And then again, mayonnaise on french fries is much more of a European thing to do than an American one. The U.S. default is ketchup, anything else is "interesting"--the cultural divide is then whether "interesting" is a good thing or a bad thing.
posted by gimonca at 3:46 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Also:

proper bread made with high-protein flour

Ah, gluten, I don't care what other people say about you, you'll always be welcome in my house.
posted by gimonca at 3:49 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]


I treat mayo like I treat the Dave Matthews Band.

As in, if you really like it, that's fine and I won't judge you much, but if I order something that shouldn't have it and you put it on unexpectedly, I will throw it back at you and shit on everything you have ever loved.
posted by delfin at 3:55 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Just Mayo: I thought they meant "just" as in "only," but they mean "just" as in "just replace the eggs with, oh, I don't know, peas." Hard pass.
posted by emelenjr at 4:08 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Is this a joke? I can’t really tell, but the rhapsody over jello salad suggests it must be satire, right?

I like mayo (on French fries especially) but also like foods with some spice. It’s a personal preference thing, half of my family likes mayo and the other abhors it. I didn’t eat mayo for years after childhood, only mustard on sandwiches.

Counter to the generational conflict theme, My mother (of European decent via the middle of the country) actually is not a big mayo eater and never made these mayonnaise heavy salads the author describes, they taste too heavy and bland to me - I like a nice vinaigrette potato salad better.
posted by rainydayfilms at 4:11 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


grumpybear69: "Yeah, I'm GenX and have hated Jell-O salad since forever because it sucks."

Boomer here and yeah.
posted by octothorpe at 4:25 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


GenX here and I don't think I ever had Jell-O salad as a kid, except for maybe once or twice when I saw a recipe in one of my Kid's Kookbooks as a kid and asked my mother if we could try it. (It was a mostly orange-flavored thing, with mostly grated carrots and orange juice and orange Jell-o. I think we served it as a dessert option, and remember it being "eh, it's alright.")

I don't think my family was ever really big on mayo, because we were never really big on sauces in general. Me especially - I got odd looks as a kid because I always asked to not have dressing on my salad. I liked the actual taste of the raw vegetables themselves, you see, and any dressing just tasted like this super-strongly-flavored glop that covered it up. I still rarely dress salads if I'm the only diner; maybe some oil and vinegar and that's it.

I do have a jar in the fridge for the occasional sandwich, though. A BLT just doesn't work without mayo.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:39 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


1)Making mayonnaise is easy and a weirdly pleasurable kitchen experience.
2) My homemade mayo always has a bit of Dijon in it (about a tsp, give or take).
3) If you’re buying mayonnaise: Dukes.
4) Hey, I loathe pretty much loathe ketchup (I also dislike honey mustard and the travesty that is the bbq sauce you buy bottled in stores). We all have our things.
5) I’d put money on that potato salad being nothing to write home about.
posted by thivaia at 4:48 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


...I always hesitate to try anything mayonnaise-y at a picnic just because half the time it is made with miracle whip and that makes me want to vomit.

This.
I don't really care what your fave mayo is, but if you're calling Miracle Whip "mayo" then we have a problem. MW is the wine cooler of condiments.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:53 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


That's an insult to wine coolers.
posted by Stewriffic at 5:12 AM on August 13 [18 favorites]


I loathe pretty much loathe ketchup (I also dislike honey mustard and the travesty that is the bbq sauce you buy bottled in stores). We all have our things.

I think almost all condiments turn to garbage when they're produced on an industrial scale--they tend to devolve into something made primarily of corn syrup, soybean oil, or both (hot sauce and mustard are sometimes exceptions).
posted by box at 5:14 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


Ah, Metafilter's favorite subject: Other people's food choices.
That's one of the reasons I come here. It would never occur to me to make a grilled chees sandwich with mayo, but now I have to try it.

The History of White People In America had a section on mayonnaise. I guess that counts for identity condiments.
posted by MtDewd at 5:31 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


We joke, but the dynamic is a real one, worthy of study: broadly, what it means to be American is, as ever, changing before our eyes. It no longer means striving for whiteness and, when you achieve it, striving to achieve the ultimate level of whiteness: WASPiness. To be sure, we're still engaged in the neverending project of constructing a national identity, but the modernist project of asking mass-market magazines and network television to tell us what that identity is has collapsed. Fashion magazines are now a weird avant-garde sideshow to the real making of fashion, which happens on places like Instagram. Food magazines race to catch up to the latest fads dreamed up by Brooklyn "authenticity" peddlers. The midcentury "women's magazines" that printed these recipes are now gossip rags or filled with sex tips, and their paleolithic issues touting 11 different ways to incorporate Crisco into your next Sunday meal are sold in curio shops as gag gifts for bachelorette parties.

America changes. Sad as it is for some, we're getting past Hellmans- and Jell-O-infused "salads" that have never even been near a head of lettuce. (For the record though, a nice Waldorf salad sounds incredible right now, possibly with a little Sriracha)
posted by LiteOpera at 5:55 AM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Did that author just position TGI Fridays and Applebee's as traditional Real American restaurants? Really?

Wow.

My mother, a boomer, despises all those chain trash microwave dinner places because they're awful and basically serving extremely overpriced microwave dinners. If that's the best example Hingston can find of good ole Real American food then no wonder her "amazing" mayo centric dishes are being rejected. Hint: It isn't because of the mayo, it's because you're an awful cook who thinks the crap they serve at Applebee's is good.

I'm also kind of horrified that in a far too long anti-Millennial screed about the joys of mayo she never once talked about making your own!

Don't get me wrong, for day to day stuff Kraft is my go to mayo, but homemade mayo is **SOOOO** much better and flavorful. You can even get really hipster and make your mayo with duck eggs instead of plain old chicken eggs. It isn't even difficult if you've got a food processor or immersion blender.

I also can't say I've noticed any particular generational divide in mayo eating. To me it looks more like people are more comfortable expressing food opinions these days than they used to be, so the anti-mayo contingent is more comfortable saying that they hate it. But I know plenty of younger people who like mayo just fine, and if anything the mayo section in my grocery store has gotten bigger what with new brands and vegan options and so on.

*****************

All that said, I was also intrigued by the idea of identity condiments, and wish we could see some actual research into the idea. The visceral hate the Republicans were able to whip up over Obama wanting some Dejon on his burger didn't just come out of a vacuum. Clearly there are some condiments people do feel attach to their identity, and plain yellow mustard (probably French's) as a signifier of Blue Collar Authentic Real Americanism might be a thing. Or it might just be BS that FOX invented out of nothing.

Certainly there's a fairly strong brand loyalty going for condiments, though in that case it may just be that they really do have noticeably different tastes so if you're used to Heinz ketchup and you get Hunts it just tastes wrong.

We know food and class are pretty strongly linked, witness the shock that Trump likes well done steak with ketchup. It isn't even so much that well done steak and ketchup goes against what most people think of as "the right way to eat steak", as it is that it seems both childish and very low class. Likewise all you have to do to portray a character as ritzy and snooty is have them talk about caviar (despite caviar not really being a super expensive food).

Is there a Democratic/Republican condiment divide? One that separates the college educated from the high school educated? Mac from PC? Men from women? Black people from white people? Those all seem like really interesting questions that a better article would have at least tried to answer.
posted by sotonohito at 5:56 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


I don't really care what your fave mayo is, but if you're calling Miracle Whip "mayo" then we have a problem. MW is the wine cooler of condiments.

This, although wine coolers have some redeeming features, which Miracle Whip does not.

Mayo is fine as a condiment, great on sandwiches and in fry sauce, but not as a main food group. I can remember the potluck food from when I was a kid and wow, did people back then sometimes overuse it (see also: those gross jello salads, sometimes with cream cheese or Cool Whip mixed in).

The article had some ok points here and there but I found the tone much more irritating than funny. There's an interesting story to tell about changing tastes in condiments (which would need to talk about both generational and class divergence on this) but this article doesn't even try to go there.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:00 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Hot sauce and salt and vinegar are all I need. Maybe some mustard. I probably haven't eaten any mayonnaise or jello voluntarily since the Clinton administration.
posted by pracowity at 6:10 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


This is an essay about mayo, the whitest white thing in the universe, and the premise is that we're seeing a generational gap?

That said, I think this is a fun article but also I don't think the author has been to the Midwest recently.
posted by etc. at 6:13 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I loathe pretty much loathe ketchup (I also dislike honey mustard and the travesty that is the bbq sauce you buy bottled in stores). We all have our things.

This is where I'm very quietly going to confess that I'm not really into traditional barbecue sauce. ....I am kind of funny about savory foods that have a sweet element to them; it just feels strangely wrong to me. No problem with me that people do like it (if you dig it, hey, go nuts), but I'm not a fan myself. Honey mustard is the same thing.

Ketchup, I'm strangely coning back to. Although I think I like currywurst sauce better. (Fortunately you can easily make currywurst sauce using ketchup.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:21 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


It's not just changing tastes, it's changing distribution. When I was a mere tot, for instance, Dijon/stoneground/etc mustard really was a fancy mustard - it was the only fancy mustard option on the grocery store shelf. My family used yellow mustard, partly because there were small kids and we were fussy, and partly because Dijon was expensive - this in a very solidly middle class Chicago suburb. When Dijon got cheaper, it became our default mustard. (I'm not sure I've ever even purchased yellow mustard for myself.) I can go to the Cub in my working class part of the city and there are umpteen squillion mustards.

Now, on the one hand, there's a history of jello salads being sold as elegant, like an affordable aspic. But on the other, jello salads look pretty fun and make a nice change if you live somewhere with a relatively limited range of food availability - like most people before American food distribution really changed. (To me, this happened in the eighties - in the nineties, things like Romaine lettuce and multiple varieties of apples had become cheap enough that we stopped eating iceberg and red delicious.)

If food distribution breaks down in our horrible inequality-and-climate-change future, you'd better believe we'll have jello salads again, or something similar.


~~
On a side note, when I went to college, the cafeteria had not yet been outsourced. (And staff's children got free tuition, something that stopped ASAP when the outsourcing happened. Even if I had money now, I sure wouldn't kick any of it back to the ol' alma mater and her labor exploitation.) And as a result, we got some regional cooking. My very favorite dessert was this layered thing where one of the layers was this sort of...fruit and cream cheese and cherry jello, maybe? And one layer was jello and cool whip so that it was solid and translucent, and one layer was flavored cool whip with toasted walnuts on top. All this on some kind of graham crust. It was so good. It didn't taste fresh and organic and classy, but it was delicious, and I would eat a trayful if I had one right now. So anyway, I am not totally out of sympathy with jello-based cuisine.
posted by Frowner at 6:25 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]


But what do you dip French fries in? Mayo.

I fuckin' drown 'em in that shit!
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:28 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


I grew up in Florida, in a Miracle Whip house and they (notice I don't say "we") called it mayo. (Also, the only Chinese food was chicken or shrimp fried rice, and the only Mexican food was Taco Bell, and... all of this seems pretty horrifying now to be honest.)

Then I had Hellman's, and it was a revelation. Actual mayonnaise doesn't have to suck!


I once ruined my mayo-hating friends breakfast by saying "you know, Hollandaise is basically just hot mayo. Eggs, fat, acid..."

I'm the other way, mayo is fine but I can't with Hollandaise.
posted by Foosnark at 6:31 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


How millenials are killing the bus plunge headline
posted by Skwirl at 6:32 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


But what do you dip French fries in?

Salt and vinegar.
posted by pracowity at 6:32 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


I actually really like using mayonnaise as a condiment, though I've toned it down somewhat as I've grown older. It has a richness that doesn't overshadow the other flavors with which you're dealing. French fries? Now that salty, crispy potato has added creaminess without conflicting. BLT? Make the bacon and the vegetables richer without needing to add cheese or taking away from the meat/freshness. Mayonnaise, like MSG, is a flavor enhancer, and can be used quite well if you don't want to blast over the main item's flavor with the condiment. I love mustards and garlic and more pronounced flavors too, but mayonnaise is just so useful.

It also makes me think about how I loathe IPAs because I want a pleasant beer-drinking experience where I can enjoy notes and flavors without being obliterated with intense bitterness.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:38 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


because unless your picnicking in Antarctica, it's not recommended to keep mayo products unrefrigerated for more than a couple of hours.

this comes up a lot here on the blue and i wish i could lay it to rest but alas this idea will persist forever. anyway, commercial mayo is made from pasteurized eggs and is probably the safest ingredient in your potato salad. if there's raw produce that's much more likely to be the source of food borne illness. i mean, mayo is shelf stable people. it will keep for ages at room temp before you expose it to the air. i'll never understand why it has this reputation but it's very much untrue
posted by dis_integration at 6:40 AM on August 13 [16 favorites]


The U.S. default is ketchup

Chicago just separated from the U.S.
posted by srboisvert at 6:48 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]


Peanut butter and mayonnaise, a Southern US tradition I only started learning about yesterday.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:50 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


I gagged at least twice reading this article. Mayonnaise is disgusting. I am not a millennial.
posted by slipthought at 6:51 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I like Mayo (Kewpie preferably) but I just don't like as much mayo as almost every American restaurant thinks I should. It should be a condiment not the bulk of a meal.
posted by srboisvert at 6:52 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I am slightly ashamed to admit that just last night I was craving a sandwich, but we didn't have any proper sandwich fixins, so I just had mayo on a leftover hamburger roll. It was good and fine.

I also make peanut butter and chocolate chip sandwiches, so I may be damaged in some deep way.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:53 AM on August 13


I had a tuna salad sandwich last night with mayo and capers and it was fine. I don't use mayo a lot but how else would you eat a tuna sammich? (for the record it was Trader Joe's Organic Mayo)
posted by octothorpe at 6:58 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Hated mayo when I was a kid, because it was miracle whip. I love actual mayo, and the various aoli's and of course Kewpie ( the mayo with the unfortunate name).
posted by evilDoug at 6:59 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


I just had mayo on a leftover hamburger roll

Growing up, mayo on white bread was called a "snap sandwich."
Cold american cheese on white bread with mayo was also in regular rotation... as well as hot dogs with mayo.

I'm just saying... there is a reason I cannot even tolerate the smell of the stuff now.
posted by slipthought at 6:59 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


i'll never understand why it has this reputation but it's very much untrue

When you make homemade mayo with fresh eggs it's easy to end up with salmonella in it, and warm temperatures only make it worse.
posted by sukeban at 7:00 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I wanted to mention, ketchup, katsup, that awful red stuff by nearly any name, I've always hated. Until recently, when I bought some for a backyard BBQ (yes Southerners, I mean cookout) and bought a bottle of Sriracha ketchup at Sprouts. Wonderful. Worth the price. Which was the same as regular ketchup.
posted by evilDoug at 7:07 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Kewpie (the mayo with the unfortunate name)

Isn't that a Japanese brand? If so, there seems to be a Buzz Rickson-esque hyper-Americanism happening there.
posted by acb at 7:11 AM on August 13


Maybe the tiki-torch garbage-Nazis will start performatively eating a lot of it, in the way that some of them performatively drink milk by the gallon to demonstrate their superior Aryan lactose tolerance.

Really? Is that the genetic superiority they’re so proud of? Demonstrating that something doesn’t make them fart? I wonder how it’ll be with the ones who suddenly discover that lactose tolerance can drop off with age or stress levels.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:13 AM on August 13 [6 favorites]


I wanted to mention, ketchup, katsup, that awful red stuff by nearly any name, I've always hated.

Lifelong ketchup hater here; it was remarkable, how, when I was a child and wanted burgers and fries without ketchup (why people want to ruin fries with it is still a mystery to me), people freaked out, as if I had asked for a side of ground up glass to eat with my lunch. Like it was unthinkable to them that someone would not want ketchup all over everything.
posted by thelonius at 7:25 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


My very favorite dessert was this layered thing where one of the layers was this sort of...fruit and cream cheese and cherry jello, maybe? And one layer was jello and cool whip so that it was solid and translucent, and one layer was flavored cool whip with toasted walnuts on top.

My mom used to make this thing that was crumbled up pretzels on the bottom, cream cheese possibly with stuff added in the middle, and red-flavor jello on the top. Fuckin-a good. Possibly there was real fruit in the jello but I haven't had this since like 1985.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:25 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


When you make homemade mayo with fresh eggs it's easy to end up with salmonella in it, and warm temperatures only make it worse.

Yes, homemade mayo is going to be as likely to be a source of contamination as any other meal made with raw eggs (althougth the acidic environment of mayo makes it pretty safe, actually). But how many people make their own mayo? Not very many, I'd warrant. When I tell people how easy it is with a stick blender most say they never even thought you could make it at home. Heckfire, most people don't know what mayo even is (a simple emulsion of egg yolks and oil, with lemon juice and salt)! So chances are pretty good that it's hellmans or dukes or whatever in your barbecue party, and it's very safe. When people get sick, poor mayo gets the blame, but the culprit is almost always someone else. Not all mayo, is what I'm saying!
posted by dis_integration at 7:28 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


jello salads

Growing up, I always thought they were disgusting - when overdone. But occasionally, those that had a few tangerine pieces, maybe some grapes and whipped cream were "tolerable".

But.... People have also become more "food savvy" - I live in a household where 70% of the members do not eat red meat, or any products derived from beef, pork or lamb.

Which means.... No jello ... or marshmallows... (Gelatin, sorry if I have ruined your day with a TIL)... Which might be a contributing factor in this debate...

Personally - mayo is "ok", but I do find it flavorless. Here at home, we make our own concoction of sriracha mayo (admittedly with store bought source ingredients so that the end result will keep longer) that makes the mayo edible. (For sandwiches, I am one of those horrible MW people, who most people believe should be punished (whipped?))
posted by jkaczor at 7:28 AM on August 13


In Southern families (at least Tidewater), it’s Dukes, not Hellmans, although my father (Charleston) preferred Durkees - not actually mayo, but mostly. My wife’s family (most definitely not Southerners) prefers MW which is, to me, not mayo

Not just you, as noted above re: wine cooler of condiments. In my Southern childhood, there was not a mayo/no-mayo divide, the battle was ALWAYS mayo/MW. Both sides could at least agree that MW was in no way mayo, and both sides could equally agree that there had to be some kind of non-mustard/non-ketchup sandwich spread available. (As for my allegiance, I am on the right side of history, and everyone on my side knows which one that is*.)

Now I am partners with a no-mayolike-condiment-at-all person, and it is an ongoing struggle. We joking-not-joking had a years-long moratorium on the topic, we got so heated.

*It's mayo**. Also I get my news from an actual newspaper.

**Duke's for preference, Hellmann's is fine, and yeah I occasionally make my own but geez store-bought can last in the fridge so much longer and I'm the only one eating it so
posted by solotoro at 7:32 AM on August 13


I find it deeply offensive that non-egg products are allowed to call themselves mayo.
posted by Robin Kestrel at 7:41 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


Mayo tastes like skin smells. That may not actually be true, but that's how I've felt about it since I was four. I think it's disgusting.
posted by UltraMorgnus at 7:44 AM on August 13


But how many people make their own mayo? Not very many, I'd warrant. When I tell people how easy it is with a stick blender most say they never even thought you could make it at home.

My mom used to make mayo with an immersion blender until we had health campaigns in the 80s-90s and they forbade restaurants and bars from making their mayo with fresh eggs in 1991 (from the article: "mayo causes 75% of food poisonings"), so it really depends on which country you come from.
posted by sukeban at 7:45 AM on August 13


This was hilarious.

I bet that if you open the fridges of many of my friends - most are older millenials - you'll find a bottle of mayo. We even sometimes have potlucks where someone brings a potato salad with mayo in it. And they get et up, no problem.

But it's true we don't use it as much as our parents' generation did. We don't make as many dishes with mayo, and when we use mayo, we don't use quite so much, because our tastes have changed; we want flavor, and the flavor of mayo doesn't really cut it. We also eat a lot more fresh foods (or cup noodles).

I do suspect that in fact this author's salads just aren't very good.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:58 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]


Aioli is definitely the new mayo in terms of turning sandwiches, a food product reputedly created for mess-free eating, into something awkwardly oozy and drippy. Try it at your next quick airport meal or your next business lunch with a new client.
posted by smelendez at 8:02 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


As far as I can understand, millenials are supposed to love Aoli. Which is a subtype of mayo. (Mayonnaise is any emulsion of egg yolks, fat and maybe a seasoning. Aoli has olive oil for the fat and garlic for the seasoning. Or something else (in its adapted form- the original is only olive oil and garlic) for a seasoning.) So we're not killing mayo. We're forcing it to evolve to become an even better version of itself.

As a card carrying millenial (born in '82, so just at the dawn of the millenials), mayo has it's place. Tuna salad, potato salad, combined with ketchup to make Russian or Thousand Island dressing, without which, the genius that is the Reuben sandwich cannot exist. And it's good on burgers with ketchup as well. It just doesn't get used as much. Hellman's is not about to go bankrupt.
posted by Hactar at 8:06 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Mayo is okay in a few foods (and crucial on club sandwiches), but I could probably live without it. (Homemade mayo is delicious but I never can eat enough before it goes bad.)

That said, yellow mustard is unfairly maligned. It's not the best mustard, but it's perfectly fine and ideal for hot dogs.
posted by jeather at 8:25 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I grew up in a Miracle Whip household. I don't think I ever had real mayonnaise until I went off to college, and initially I just hated it. Eventually I developed a taste for it. Now I keep both on hand in our fridge, although my wife still only likes MW, and our daughter won't eat either one. I like each one in different situations: for a ham sandwich it HAS to be MW, but for most other cold cuts I prefer Hellmann's mayo. I will make tuna salad with either one depending on my mood. My MW tuna salad includes a little sweet relish, my mayo tuna salad includes capers. I haven't made mayonnaise at home for some time, but I like my own mayo better than anything that comes from the supermarket.
posted by briank at 8:31 AM on August 13


The U.S. default is ketchup

Chicago just separated from the U.S.

srboisvert


My parents were both born in the city of Chicago (Dad never left it until the Vietnam war--Mom spent some time in the city commuter bedroom communities of Indiana) and Mom just hates ketchup in all applications except making sloppy joes. Dad rarely cares and so we generally did not have ketchup on stuff growing up. Since I did not live in Chicago until I was an adult, I was always That Weird Kid who Does Not Like Ketchup. Finally being back in Chicago to live was truly coming home, for not the least reason that everything's not drowned in sticky, sickly, sweet ketchup.

On the other hand, are a twenty-five year old sonand college age daughter actually Millennial? Aren't Millennials in their 30's and 40's now?
posted by crush at 8:35 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Me (from a traditional Jewish mayo-hating family) having sandwiches with my mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law (small town on the prairies) for the first time. “What, no mayo? How do you cover up the butter? NO BUTTER? Just mustard? I don’t understand. I mean, just a little mayo, right?”
posted by Valancy Rachel at 8:37 AM on August 13


I'm late Gen X, basically. I like mayo just fine. But I don't particularly care for the Generic American cuisine that tends to feature mayo prominently. I don't have anything against it – it's just that there are so many other things to eat these days that macaroni salad and mayo-based sandwiches are kind of boring.

Plus, mayo-based foods tend to be bland – and sometime around my generation, Americans discovered flavor. It's okay to season things with more than just stale black pepper and yellow mustard! It's okay to venture beyond white bread, pot roast, and three watered-down "ethnic" cuisines (Tex-Mex, Italian, Chinese takeout)!

On the one hand, I don't really care what other people eat. On the other hand, it's hard not to be a little judgey about people who don't bother to explore beyond the horizon. I get it – the Boomers didn't have fresh galangal and half a dozen different kinds of dal in every supermarket, or pho and pupusas in every strip mall. But it's there now, so why not take advantage of it? If a particular dish or cuisine just isn't your thing, that's fine – but surely you can find something you enjoy among this newfound bounty of culinary options. To just...ignore all of those options, the way so many folks do, is baffling to me. Food is, more-or-less literally, the spice of life!
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:52 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I don't eat enough mayonnaise to meaningfully compare brands, but my girlfriend loves Miracle Whip (which I understand is not actually mayonnaise). I'm not a big fan of that, but when I need sandwich lube that's what's in the fridge. Now, just like with the chocolate thread earlier, I want to try different kinds to see what suits me.

Thing is, I eat so little of it that buying jars to compare would be a complete waste. Heinz recently came out with a mayo too, didn't they?

I wonder if there's somewhere I can get a flight of mayonnaise (eugh).
posted by one of these days at 8:57 AM on August 13


It would never occur to me to make a grilled cheese sandwich with mayo
You can use mayo as the fat to grill the sandwich, producing that tasty crunchy fried bread; that may be news to some people. Mayo inside the grilled cheese sandwich is a requirement. Mayo on a BLT, check. Mayo on turkey sandwich, ideally with horseradish, check. Also salt & pepper. Leftover turkey pulled off the bones, dipped in mayo, Thanksgiving night, check. I love potato salad. Macaroni salad's okay if it has vegetables and is fresh.

The only reason this is a thing that Boomers do is that we didn't have wasabi, sriracha, kimchi, most hot sauces, Dijon mustard, and many, many other food options. Chinese food was a rarity and exotic, unless you grew up in a big city. To describe Julia Child as a revelation is not exaggerating. Some Boomers are scared to try new foods, most have embraced diversity, in food, at least.

Jello was tortured into some deeply bizarre recipes. I grew up in Ohio, where people put mini-marshmallows in it and still call it salad. But it's soothing and sweet, and low-alcohol artisanal Jello shots are hella tasty and fun. After a few Jello shots, maybe we can have a cease-fire in the the media-manufactured Boomers vs. Millennials war.
posted by theora55 at 9:04 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, are a twenty-five year old son and college age daughter actually Millennial? Aren't Millennials in their 30's and 40's now?


Millennials aka Generation Y are early 80s to mid 90s (depends what years you count, but 1981-1996 seems common) So the oldest are late 30s, the youngest early 20s.

It's us gen Xers in their late 30s to early 50s, and Post-Millenials (gen Z) that are the up and coming young things.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 9:04 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I'm 32 years old and I have always hated the stuff.

a) I'm allergic to it.
b) It's bland and really nondescript - it does not improve the food!
c) Motherfucking every goddamn food in america has mayo. Order a hamburger? Mayo! Sandwiches on airplanes? Mayo. At the very least put it on the side assholes.
posted by Veritron at 9:07 AM on August 13


>> some of them performatively drink milk by the gallon

> Really? Is that the genetic superiority they’re so proud of?

It's pretty much the policy statement and election strategy of the entire Trump administration, isn't it? "If lefties are against it, we're for it. If lefties are for it, we're against it. Jerk their chains. Get them to look absurd by coming out against something centrist voters perceive as wholesome. Win the election." So they guzzle milk -- supposedly, anyway; I only know what I read -- and hope like hell they can disgust some vegans and maybe get them to say bad stuff about milk and look crazy on the news.

I don't know where the Trump administration stands on mayonnaise, but I hope it's slippery.
posted by pracowity at 9:07 AM on August 13


dijonnaise, good day

i didn't read the article and no one can make me
posted by poffin boffin at 9:08 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]


I, as a kid, loved peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwiches.

I, as an adult, am 1) surprised I've survived this long and 2) am tempted to re-create that from scratch — PB and M and maybe the bread too. I bet it'd be tasty.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:23 PM on August 12 [+] [!]


Someone's done the research.
posted by mwhybark at 9:18 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


You can't make deviled eggs without mayo. You can't live without deviled eggs. Ergo, mayo is the stuff of life.
posted by cjorgensen at 9:19 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I also make peanut butter and chocolate chip sandwiches, so I may be damaged in some deep way.

I think by "damaged" you mean "perfectly fine".

Seriously, they make a whole range of peanut-butter-with-chcolate-spread-together-in-the-jar thingamahoobers now, so clearly the peanut-butter-and-chocolate-sandwich concept is well within the range of dining options. You're just being....artisinal about it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:22 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


My 2¢: mayo in sushi is just wrong, though with chips, Belgian-style, it is a good thing.
posted by acb at 9:23 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Really? Is that the genetic superiority they’re so proud of?

IIRC, there was some uproar in 2016 over a college newspaper publishing an editorial where a student wrote that having all the food in the school cafeteria drenched in milk or cheese was tough for people who are lactose intolerant, and pointed out that nonwhite people are statistically less likely to be able to consume lactose products.

That turned into a bunch of Fox News types turning consumption of dairy into a white pride event for all of eternity.

re: TFA, Duke's mayo for life!! My roommate who normally dislikes mayo tried some reluctantly, and had her mind blown.

However, the more sauces and dips that become popular and readily available, the better. MORE DIPS. MORE DRESSINGS. MORE TASTY GOOP FOR DUNKING.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 9:27 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


This article really left a foul taste in my mouth. I mean, I get that it's mostly meant as a joke, but the way that things the author is less familiar with are immediately categorized as "identity condiments" strikes me as both phenomenally dismissive in the vein of calling something "identity politics" and deliberately alienating. Even more so, the author doesn't fucking bother to try to understand what she's talking about: kimchi is not a condiment. it's banchan, a side dish. gochujang is not a condiment. it's a mother sauce.

Then there's the one-off lines thrown in there like "America may be too far gone", the fact that this was originally published as "The White Stuff", and it feels so much like she's wanting the days when white people dominated everything and everyone of color, and this article just reads so much as a white person's fear of white (food) genocide, shouting about how your condiments will not replace hers.

I mean, if it's a joke, it's something, but even the throwaway complaint about the maker of Sriracha not arguing against fast food's "cultural appropriation" both misunderstands what cultural appropriation is and a complete ignorance of how many ethnic communities have strong opinions on how their foods are often adapted and taken from them.
posted by anem0ne at 9:28 AM on August 13 [28 favorites]


This piece is pretty irritating since it is long on anecdote and musing and short on any real data on mayo sales (though that combination has provoked a lot of similarly anecdotal comments, so maybe worth something).

In contrast, the WSJ (paywalled) ran a piece last year on mayo sales in the US based on data and analysis from Euromonitor (super paywalled: $990!). It turns out that mayo sales did in fact fall 6.7% in the US between 2012 and 2017. But mayo continues to overwhelmingly be the #1 condiment in the US (who knew?), with ketchup a distant #2.

The real question is: why the decline? The WSJ blames "changing eating habits, [and] an array of new competitors." Euromonitor's public executive summary also puts the responsibility on a desire for "new and unique flavour profiles," driven particularly by millennials and "changing demographics in the US," including "Latinos in the US."

So maybe millennials are in fact killing mayo in the US, though Latinos are helping too. Intriguingly this is really just a US story -- worldwide mayo consumption is increasing in some parts of the world, including the UK, where it last year became the #1 consumption.
posted by crazy with stars at 9:41 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]


"you know, Hollandaise is basically just hot mayo. Eggs, fat, acid..."

I have never seen mayonnaise made with butter, nor Hollandaise without it. Which fat makes all the difference.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:42 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


"Killed" is such a amusing qualifier in these situations.

Now, Mama, that's just egg paranoia. I think you're being very silly. There will always be chickens. Why, there are so many chickens now... that we can eat some and let some of them live...in order to supply us with eggs. Chickens are plentiful, Mama. The world will never be without chickens. You can be sure of that.

I can get eggs, oil, and vinegar, and, like all sane and upright culinary architects, I own a well-kept immersion blender, so it's gonna be awfully hard to kill mayo as we know it.

I'm also always surprised by the depth of mayophobia in some circles, but I'm also surprised by the deranged love of Nutella, which is baboon-murdering cake icing sugargoo disguised as food, so a good gourmand who's comfortable with their place in the world really has to be ready to shrug off those gustibuses that est almost entirely non disputandum.

Sort of interesting to me, too, how mayophobia intersects the contention that solidified egg whites are gross. There are a few of those people in my family, alas. Takes all kinds, I suppose.
posted by sonascope at 10:22 AM on August 13


My "cooking" is basically greasy spoon short order. So yeah, mayo is integral to a lot of it: tuna salad, chicken salad, egg salad, BLT, grilled cheese, et al...
posted by jim in austin at 10:23 AM on August 13


i don't like or understand Youths these days who reject the classical patrician values of the greatest generation and refuse to eat the garum-flavoured dormice we all grew up devouring from the comfort of our triclinia
posted by poffin boffin at 10:32 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]


Alright. I've been a high end cook/chef and I've also worked for as 'Big Mayo' a company as you can in the world. I know mayo inside and out - from making it in small batches, to mass production and sourcing, to which demographics and some indication as to 'why' those demographics buy it.

So first I'll talk about what mayo has in it and why mayo is what it is. It is the quintessential definition of mise en place. There is not a single unnecessary component to make it what it is. It is culinarily perfect - even if you don't like it. Mayo, like making wheels for a bicycle, is an art form of craftsmanship. The ingredients are simple: eggs, oil, mustard, lemon, water, salt, and spice. You can make it with a ridiculous amount of junk in it like pureed avocado or sriracha or Frank's (on edit: Hot Sauce), or chopped up pickles, or vinegar or what have you... but if you can't combine the first set perfectly - somebody is going to taste 'something off' and not be able to figure out what it is.

Now everything has a purpose in the basic recipe, so lets discuss what it is. For starters, you don't need the whole egg, you just need the yolk. This is the protein and serves as a structure to suspend and help emulsify the oil. You can almost go without even the other ingredients, but if you want longevity and a palatable product, you'll be using the others. Mustard helps the emulsification process. Use too much and you'll basically be breathing the back end of a mustard stick...I don't know that a mustard stick is a thing, but basically, if you add too little, your emulsification is going to be extremely challenging and will have a hard time being permanent. If you add too much, you'll just taste the mustard and you won't be able to tell how much more oil you could/should add to the egg. Wait what? yeah. Your goal is to add (slowly) as much oil as possible to the egg yolk as possible without breaking the mayo. Add the oil too fast, and the mayo won't form. Add too little oil and you'll get the upchuck taste of flavorless raw egg yolk. Add too much oil, and the yolk will supersaturate and the oil will spin itself out saying a big 'fuck you' to the structure the yolk provides. You use the lemon juice to cut the finish and to lightly thin the mayo. It is possible to make a mayo as thin as Caesar dressing (its mayo) or as thick as Barbasol shaving cream. The lemon is used to 'cut' the flavor, you use the water to thin to the proper consistency. Salt is for seasoning along with a white pepper if you are just making mayo. If you are getting adventurous you can start to cut your mayo with vinegar and or a gastrique to serve as a base for a thinner sauce and / or chopped pickles for the greatest tartar sauce known to mankind. Anchovies and garlic with a traditional base make Caesar dressing. Sriracha and you get spicy dipping sauce for crab cakes, as well as the binder for the actual cake. I've blended in re-hydrated dried cranberries to make a great spread for turkey sandwiches. I can go on and on and on with different things to add and different things to explore with mayo... horseradish, Worcestershire, mango, peach, jalapeno, and so on...

Here's the thing: big mayo makes this stuff surprisingly similar these days. There was a period where they stopped, but unsurprisingly folks have come around to understanding that their changes changed both the flavor profile too much, as well as were things that made people walk away from the product. So mayo has largely gotten back to its roots. I am of the belief that mayo requires egg - which means that you can have avegan mayo substitute, but calling something mayo that is vegan is questionably honest and causes me to raise an eyebrow to your understanding... Don't get me wrong - I don't think that there is anything wrong with a vegan product, its just the misleading equivalent of 'frozen dairy product' being equated with ice cream. I think you can get some great tastes with sandwich spreads, but thickening salad dressing emulsifications does not make you a mayo without the base ingredients.

Now, on to trends. This knowledge is a few years old, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts this still holds true. The numbers didn't lie. Mayo is a full on red-state established food product. Even 'light mayo' is red state. If you want to attract blues - Olive Oil and Organic. Everybody loves squeeze mayonnaise. The quantity consumed will be much lower in the blue states, but - full stop - they don't consume nearly the same quantity.

The fall-off for traditional, store bought mayo purchase is a death curve aligned to the baby boomers, with millennials purchasing some, but then only the 'squeeze' form factor for (assumed) sandwiches. For those that bought, the purchase cycle by unit was uniform across demographics, but looking out actual ounces - the older you were the bigger the containers that you bought and the less-healthy your containers were.

Shelf-wise, mayonaise has a longer purchase cycle than ketchup or mustard, but if you give me 1 linear square foot in a grocery store, the mayo will make more money for all parties. This is why you see more and more stores moving to Store Brand (National Brand Equivalent (NBE)) ketchup and routinely rotating out their mustards... Ketchup is a diluted market, mustard is a specialty trend market. Mayo is silent and efficient.

Lastly, anybody that makes a grilled cheese sandwich with mayo instead of butter has committed sacrilege. Learn to heat your pan right and how to spread your butter, and you'll get the best possible results. Mayo spreads well, but egg has no place in grilled cheese. Egg + Cheese + Bread? I'd better be getting a breakfast sandwich - and those need butter too.
posted by Nanukthedog at 10:59 AM on August 13 [133 favorites]


Final note on the red-state/blue-state thing in my comment above... I could have picked conservative or liberal, or any mix... and it isn't a state thing per say, but more a population pool... Urban - 32 oz jar... Rural - 5G tub.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:04 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]


Hang on - I've just remembered that only five years ago, Millennial Hipsters were being scorned for making mayonnaise too fancy. That company's shop only closed two years ago.

Which means....it wasn't Millennials who killed mayonnaise, it might have been Trump.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:15 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]


I really love Trader Joes Organic Mayo, though it might be too oily for some. Does anyone know how it compares to Kewpie or French (whatever that is) mayo?

MW is the aerosol cheese of mayo, imho.
posted by biddeford at 11:56 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]


I will eat all your mayo. I will eat your fancy mayo made with the eggs of heritage hens and I will eat big box retailer off brand mayo that is shelf stable for millennia. And I will eat it on everything: tomatoes, hot dogs, burgers, salad, sandwiches, in biscuit batter, on cold-pasta creations, in deviled eggs, on the outside of my grilled cheese when I am grilling that tasty deliciousness, and as glazes on baked chicken and fish and DON'T FORGET IN vegetable dips galore. You don't like mayo? Feeling too good for the white goo? NO PROBLEM. MORE FOR ME> NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM. I AM THE MAYO MONSTER. ALL YOUR MAYO BELONGS TO US.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 12:12 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


If my experience with nonmillenials has been worth anything, it's more likely that this hatred of mayo is a figment and projection of the author's false consciousness into the mind of a millenial as the reality is more that we don't disdain mayo; you just conveniently conclude that we do in order to validate your hegemonic value/belief system
posted by polymodus at 12:22 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I'm surprised no one has mentioned paleo/keto/Whole30 yet. I've been working on cookbooks since about 2006, and mayo was not really a thing (outside of sandwiches and downmarket "semi-homemade" cooking) until the era of hyper-specific dietary restrictions came along. Mayo doesn't tend to have sugar in it, it's relatively easy to make at home (vs., say, ketchup), and it helps make plain chicken breasts, hard-boiled eggs, or canned tuna into something that resembles a meal. Contrary to the article's premise, I'm seeing a bit of a mayo resurgence.

I grew up in the midwest, and I could never stand the stuff. As I kid I was too grossed out to even scrape it off. I wasn't a picky eater, but mayo (or Miracle Whip--also gross) was a total deal breaker. A year or two ago I ordered fish in a fancy-ish restaurant and it arrived lightly drizzled with aioli. I stifled my instinctive revulsion and gave it a nibble: actually, not bad! Haven't tried it since.
posted by libraryhead at 12:28 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]




... No discussion about mayo is complete, without referencing... "mayo, it's good for you" as a pre-dinner snack from Regular Ordinary Swedish Mealtime....
posted by jkaczor at 12:46 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


WTF do all you mayo-haters make tuna salad with then?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 12:48 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


As a millennialTM, I make my tuna salad with Tide pods. Obviously.
posted by duffell at 12:59 PM on August 13 [22 favorites]


i do not eat our Sea Friends because this alone will spare me when the great old ones rise to consume the universe
posted by poffin boffin at 1:19 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]


Mayonnaise is inedible, and contaminates any foodstuff it comes into contact with, as far as I am concerned.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 1:31 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


I am not a mayo hater, but I do often prefer tuna salad made with olive oil and red wine vinegar as the binder. Ideally with maybe some capers or olives and feta.
posted by Stewriffic at 1:40 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


chaoticgood posting an FPP that gets a bunch of people politely arguing about a thing is highly eponysterical
posted by numaner at 2:02 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


I can't believe I am going to have to come in here and defend Miracle Whip, but it has to be done. I'm sorry, but you are all deeply wrong. Miracle Whip is actually flavorful, and kinda complex, and certainly tangy/acidic in a way that I find interesting--certainly compared to the abomination of regular mayo, with its bland vibe of cheap oil and nothingness. I say all this as someone who grew up on strictly non-American, complex, flavorful food. Miracle Whip was a rare American item in the house, and while I wasn't exactly reaching for the bottle (and I do think it is too sweet by at least half), I genuinely think it has something going for it.
posted by thegreatfleecircus at 2:34 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


Wait, is Miracle Whip like salad cream?
posted by lucidium at 2:40 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


The idea that brown people don't use mayonnaise or mayonnaise-based sauces is frankly baffling to me, and to declare it "the white stuff" is more of a shibboleth of wypipo status than actually using it.
posted by drlith at 2:41 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]


On a more personal level, mayo was on the long list of things that I didn't like as a kid in the 1970s, which in my family was usually used in sandwich form (on ham and cheese, or as tuna or egg salad). My mom didn't make potato salad, coleslaw, or pasta salad that I recall. I got over this at some point in my late 20s--ironically I think it was after spending a couple years in Bolivia where so many street foods inevitably come drizzled in a combo of watery ketchup and watery mayo. I still don't use it straight up slathered on sandwich bread, but I certainly go through a few quart jars a year for coleslaw and the like.

Of course it's bland, but that's like saying butter is bland. That's not the point! Mayo is easy to combine with a variety of non-bland seasonings and getting it to stick to/blend with your food.
posted by drlith at 2:57 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


From title alone: I am proud to be of this generation for that alone, if it were the case. Mayonnaise is the only food on Earth I won't eat. I'll eat raw dog meat before willingly putting mayo on something I eat.
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:09 PM on August 13


This short video of someone reading the article and completely losing it in laughter mid-paragraph is pretty much the best rebuttal to the piece I've seen.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 3:20 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


The idea that mayo is a food favored exclusively by white Americans is so enormously wrong that I just had to comment.

I lived for years in Southeast Asia, and I ate more mayo there and in East Asia and South Asia than I ever had before in my life. Vietnamese banh mi slathered in mayo and Boursin cheese.

Korean potato salad and broccoli salad and noodle salad for banchan, slathered in mayo. Cambodian fast food cole-slaw. Mayo on okonomiyaki, takoyaki and teriyaki rice bowls in Japan.

Yum salad in Laos with watercress and mayonnaise. Thai sushi and pizza joints that put mayonnaise on everything that it can possibly be put on. Eggless flavored mayonnaise is all the rage in India these days. My mom recalls eating prawns with walnuts and mayonnaise in Taiwan 50 years ago.

I’m currently traveling in Peru, where many, many food stuffs are lubricated with variants on mayo. This includes a very nice cilantro infused type and “golf” sauce, which is a mayo-ketchup-spices sort of deal. Then there’s Mexican cuisine - elotes, grilled corn rolled in mayonnaise, lime, chili and cheese, mayonnaise on seafood tostadas, mayonnaise with chicken salad....

Let us not assume that really really liking mayonnaise is a sign of Americanness.....
posted by faineg at 4:09 PM on August 13 [29 favorites]


Every summer, my husband and I buy one bottle each of the smallest size available of yellow mustard (French's, usually, though not brand loyal) and Duke's... because this is the season during which his parents and my parents swoop in from out of town for our kids' birthdays, or 4th of July, or some other weekend, and it is just "downright un-American" that we don't keep either in our house. Those bottles sit in our fridge until the next summer, when we toss them and buy new ones again. (We are both 45; not Millennials, just picky eaters. Our kids, too. I don't think they have ever eaten mustard or mayonnaise.)
posted by candyland at 4:26 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


“24 Reasons Mayonnaise Is the Devil’s Condiment.” (The writer called it “slime of Satan.”) Just three years later, BuzzFeed ran another piece, “23 Things You’ll Only Understand If You Fucking Hate Mayo.” By a different author. There was no overlap.

This made me curious what the 47 different items could possibly be, but actually reading these there's clearly like, 50% overlap at least.
posted by lucidium at 4:28 PM on August 13


Would any of these "MILLENNIALS KILLING ${garbage_treasured_by_Olds}!!!" articles get anywhere near the page views, even for hate-reading, if the term "Millennials" was replaced with the just-as-accurate phrase "Adults Under 40"? Didn't think so.

(Late Boomer here, mayonnaise bleh, Dijon YES, aioli give it all to meeee.)
posted by hangashore at 4:44 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


faineg is right! Those honey walnut prawns you Americans love eating so much are made with mayo. Also, that Hawaiian macaroni salad is also made with mayo.
posted by yueliang at 4:48 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


After reading those Buzzfeed articles, I want to a. give out condiment packets at Halloween, and b. swap the labels on containers of mayo and marshmallow Fluff. fucking genius.
posted by theora55 at 5:01 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]


Wait, is Miracle Whip like salad cream?

yes, aka the foul ejaculate of satan
posted by poffin boffin at 5:15 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]


WTF do all you mayo-haters make tuna salad with then?

Olive oil, an egg, olives. Sometimes I call that deconstructed mayo. My mother makes tuna salad with plain yoghurt, which is not something I would recommend.

As a mayo-hater, my complaint is that mayonnaise isn’t going away, it’s hiding. Aioli is mayo, and on a sandwich, sriracha dressing is often pink mayo, and pesto dressing is green mayo. And Japanese mayo is mayo with extra sugar. All those sauces at the pommes frites place? Mayo, mayo, mayo, except for the curry one which is brilliant.

Btw, potato salad with mustard and olive oil.
posted by betweenthebars at 5:50 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]


Mayo is a flavor enhancer, not something you eat on its own. If you are glopping it on in large enough quantities that it is oozing out of a sandwich, then you are doing it wrong. A modest layer on the bread is enough to protect it from soaking and provide a fatty substrate to help carry the flavor of the filling.

It's also an excellent base material for many sauces and spreads again providing flavor enhancement and richness; fresh lemon juice and mayo makes a quick alternative to hollandaise for dipping artichokes and asparagus, mayo, mustard, and sriracha make an excellent condiment for roast chicken, and so on.
posted by tavella at 6:10 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]


Incidentally, Fatty Substrate is my new street name.
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:13 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]


> yes, aka the foul ejaculate of satan

Well I don't know what he's been eating but it makes cold leftovers taste amazing.
posted by lucidium at 6:24 PM on August 13 [9 favorites]


My mom recalls eating prawns with walnuts and mayonnaise in Taiwan 50 years ago.

Also there's the pork sung bun: basically a Chinese style bread roll that has some mayonnaise and a pork product that has a cotton-like texture called "pork sung" or "rousong". I've seen it in Chinese bakeries pretty much my whole life.
posted by FJT at 8:31 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]


I loveeee pork sung buns. Pork floss in general is something that I wish American hipsters would get into, so I could eat it more often.
posted by faineg at 9:08 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]




Well I don't know what he's been eating but it makes cold leftovers taste amazing.

cool ranch babies
posted by poffin boffin at 12:08 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]


I am slightly ashamed to admit that just last night I was craving a sandwich, but we didn't have any proper sandwich fixins, so I just had mayo on a leftover hamburger roll. It was good and fine.

Sprinkle some garlic salt on it and toast it. Delicious.
posted by srboisvert at 6:30 AM on August 14


But what do you dip French fries in?

Salt and
MALT vinegar.

FTFY
posted by jgirl at 6:52 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]


So, I'm not American, but my 25-yo loves mayo and my 20-yo adores mayo. We actually had a mild family argument very recently because 25-yo felt I was withholding mayo-dressed potato salads from her for evil ideological reasons, and she got her great-aunt on her side. Which was weird because I've never seen the aunt (my aunt) eat mayo, ever.
I love mayo, but I think mayo+starch is a bit over the top. My millennial obviously does not. Junior will eat mayo with a spoon and can not imagine a situation where mayo-with-a-spoon is not appropriate. So there's that.

PS: I like MW and salad cream too, but we've never had any of them in the house, which was probably a wise decision, given the above.
posted by mumimor at 12:24 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]


"WTF do all you mayo-haters make tuna salad with then?"

I make it with sour cream in a recipe that's similar to this (I can't locate my recipe at this instant). It's pretty good. I never have mayo in the kitchen but I usually have sour cream, so. My husband's the real tuna salad fan in our house, and he really likes it with the sour cream, so I think it works.

I don't hate-hate mayo -- my antipathy is from growing up in an area where it was POURED on things in absurd quantity, which is gross, and during the era when storebought stuff was experimenting with being faker and cheaper to make. I like plenty of mayo-based salad dressings (caesar in particular), and I even like it on sandwiches when I'm at a fancy sandwich place where they put on a THIN layer (usually flavored with something). But we never had it at home growing up because we did not eat gross mayo-based bulk foods and my childhood exposure was all to gross mayo-based bulk foods at parties that are now extremely out of vogue. I regret a little bit that I do retain a pretty visceral disgust reaction towards mayo as a result of those early experiences, because I know it's fine when made/used well, and I've made it myself at home as the base for other things, but I still almost always pass up potato salad b/c of the childhood gluey mayo abominations that passed for potato salad. Fancy potato salads are a little bit in vogue here right now, that are lightly dressed and well-seasoned, and they generally smell good but I struggle to get past the part where there's visible mayo, even though it's clearly an appropriate amount, and I don't usually eat them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:31 AM on August 16 [1 favorite]


Mayo in ambrosia, or no?

(I think no, but you could argue for yes.)
posted by uncleozzy at 11:58 AM on August 16 [1 favorite]


I make it with sour cream in a recipe that's similar to this

I like the sour cream idea, but that recipe's proportions are 2 cans of tuna to 1 tablespoon of sour cream, which doesn't seem like nearly enough. I'll give it a try the next time I have sour cream in the house, though, since the flavors sound like a good combination.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:50 PM on August 16


"I like the sour cream idea, but that recipe's proportions are 2 cans of tuna to 1 tablespoon of sour cream, "

Yeah, my recipe has more sour cream mix to less tuna (1 can) but I cannot locate it! (I'm engaged in a great recipe reorganization so it's a bit disorganized.) But that's the basic ingredient mix and the sour cream-to-mustard ratio is at least close, IIRC. I also add cayenne pepper.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:42 PM on August 16


What are you, French Canadian?

Woah. Not in this French Canadian's household - we're fruit ketchup all the way.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:30 PM on August 17


She posted her macaroni salad recipe here if anyone wants to try it. It seems like... quite a lot of mayonnaise.
posted by lucidium at 8:31 AM on August 18


Looks like pretty generic cafeteria macaroni salad.
posted by octothorpe at 8:47 AM on August 18


That does sound like a lot of mayo. I love pasta and potato salad but there needs to be some balance in the proportions.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:12 AM on August 18


I grew up in a home where our food options were few and highly regulated by my mother. There are myriad stories about the perfectly ordinary things I never tasted until encountering them at a friend's house, the college dining hall or a restaurant: e.g., chicken soup, any cereal besides GrapeNuts, any jam/jelly besides blueberry and marmalade (which we only ate with either cream cheese or peanut butter on pumpernickel toast), etc. But as that may imply, we had weird staples, like asparagus soup, and one of our basic summer vegetables was artichokes.

We kept mayo around just for for dipping the artichokes leaves and slathering it on the hearts. And that's delicious! In my mid-forties the penny dropped that maybe I actually liked mayonnaise, despite vehemently eschewing it in all contexts except for artichokes. It was true, and I went on a mayonnaise quest immediately, learned to make it myself, etc. I love it cold and bubbling hot, and the way it imparts a coolness right out of an unopened and never-refrigerated jar or packet. But I still can't handle most macaroni or potatoe salads: too weird.
posted by carmicha at 7:45 AM on August 19


>WTF do all you mayo-haters make tuna salad with then?

Greek Yogurt
posted by Fupped Duck at 7:57 PM on August 19 [1 favorite]


If you’re grilling or smoking chicken mayo is a key part of Alabama white sauce, or the best way to grill chicken known to humanity. Smoke your chicken til it’s just done, then dunk the pieces (thighs and legs please. Wings okay too) in the sauce, then finish over heat. The magical mix that is the white sauce will brown and become wonderful.

1 cup mayo
1/4 cup cider vinegar
1 tbsp lemon juice
2tbsp brown sugar
1 tsp white pepper
1 tsp black pepper
Salt to taste
1/2tsp cayenne pepper.

Mix well, enjoy.
posted by Ghidorah at 8:07 AM on August 20 [8 favorites]


When I was in grade school, the lunch choice was peanutbutterjelly sandwich or "banana" sandwich -- half banana mushed with mayo.

Between white bread of course.

I've always wondered where else in the world banana+mayo was a thing.
posted by hank at 8:10 PM on September 1


Making your own mayo is worth it. It's like fresh pasta. It's work, but the end result is sublime in comparison with the mass produced alternative.

Here's how to make mayo fairly easily:

1. Get a mug
2. Egg yolk, pinch of salt, drop of water
3. Slowly mix in olive oil teaspoon by teaspoon using a hand blender
4. You can add more oil gradually as you continue to blend
5. Stop at half a cup. It's good for a week.

You can add anything, but I almost always add lemon and garlic at the end. If it breaks, start over, and then mix in your broken mayo once you have a substantial amount of good mayo. The mug and the hand blender are the trick that transforms making mayo from a really arduous process to one that takes about ten minutes. Still, it takes some practice to get it down. Your first couple of times start with two egg yolks.

You'll want to store this in an airtight container. Homemade mayo will soak up every smell nearby. Leave it in an opened container in the fridge and it will soon taste like fridge.

Smear some on some good bread and enjoy. It's downright decadent.
posted by xammerboy at 11:16 PM on September 2


I use the Serious Eats recipe for making mayonnaise with an immersion blender, and it just takes a minute or less once you have your ingredients in the jar. The most time-consuming part is afterward, trying to squeegee the remaining clingy thick mayo off the head of the blender with a flexible spatula. I've made garlic mayo, basil mayo, olive mayo (with mashed black olives, not with olive oil), and various combinations with this base recipe. It's really fast and easy.

However, note the part about jar size. This is absolutely critical: the jar must be juuuust slightly larger than the blender head. Slightly roomier, and it doesn't work (in my own experience, anyway).

Also, I've only tried it with a Bamix, which is a really good immersion blender, but very pricey. (I got mine second-hand from eBay.) Here's a Gordon Ramsey Bamix promo video with a slightly different mayo recipe.
posted by taz at 5:16 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]


I tried the serious eats method for the first time last week -- it's amazing! And I tried it at my second home where the immersion blender is the cheapest one you can get and used the can that came with the blender. No problem. I did make sure to have all ingredients at room temperature, like with the usual recipes.
posted by mumimor at 1:26 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]


Salad cream. You need salad cream in your life.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:59 AM on September 5


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