Use care when sanding components containing beryllium.
March 30, 2019 5:31 PM Subscribe
Twitter user @TubeTimeUS has been creating beautiful cross sections of common electronic components using sandpaper and patience. There are also some really neat annotated versions, as well as several closeups and
other
cutaways
not (yet) in the slide deck. In this case, the comments are worth reading.
(Please do not sand anything containing beryllium outside of a professional setting. Thank you, from my friends at the local respiratory hospital who are tired of burying people)
These are really cool, thanks! We used to do things like this for failure analysis... it's awfully useful for finding things that were broken, without disturbing how the failure occurred.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 6:06 PM on March 30, 2019 [6 favorites]
These are really cool, thanks! We used to do things like this for failure analysis... it's awfully useful for finding things that were broken, without disturbing how the failure occurred.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 6:06 PM on March 30, 2019 [6 favorites]
Please do not sand anything containing beryllium outside of a professional settingTo be clear, that was my own silly, snarky comment and not the content author's. I agree, though I defer to your experience.
Also, goddamn - are people really dying from this in living memory? Cripes.
posted by eotvos at 6:37 PM on March 30, 2019
Also, goddamn - are people really dying from this in living memory?
A significant portion of our product is made of beryllium because it is incredibly stable over a wide range of temperatures. Anyone working in the beryllium shop has a (employer paid) physical every year and any signs of beryllium poisoning means you are permanently reassigned.
So, yeah, in certain highly specialized fields it’s still a risk. Our machinists union makes sure the people at risk are working as safely as possible.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:46 PM on March 30, 2019 [8 favorites]
A significant portion of our product is made of beryllium because it is incredibly stable over a wide range of temperatures. Anyone working in the beryllium shop has a (employer paid) physical every year and any signs of beryllium poisoning means you are permanently reassigned.
So, yeah, in certain highly specialized fields it’s still a risk. Our machinists union makes sure the people at risk are working as safely as possible.
posted by backseatpilot at 6:46 PM on March 30, 2019 [8 favorites]
Alas, yes, it's a problem. Amazing metal, from a physics perspective, and difficult to do without, but our bodies really handle it poorly when it's finely dispersed.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 6:49 PM on March 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 6:49 PM on March 30, 2019 [3 favorites]
Freaky. This is the third time this week I’ve been diving into some rather esoteric topic and in less than a day it pops up on as an FPP on MeFi.
Anyway, cool post! And yeah, beryllium is fascinating. It’s a classic neutron source, and is nearly transparent to X-rays because of its low density.
While the dust is extremely harmful to breathe, it’s also dangerous to ingest. We have small amounts in our bodies anyway, but when ingested it has a tendency to replace magnesium in various enzymatic reactions, making them no longer function correctly. And the body doesn’t have a very effective way of removing beryllium from the system.
Element four, y’all!
posted by darkstar at 6:57 PM on March 30, 2019 [9 favorites]
Anyway, cool post! And yeah, beryllium is fascinating. It’s a classic neutron source, and is nearly transparent to X-rays because of its low density.
While the dust is extremely harmful to breathe, it’s also dangerous to ingest. We have small amounts in our bodies anyway, but when ingested it has a tendency to replace magnesium in various enzymatic reactions, making them no longer function correctly. And the body doesn’t have a very effective way of removing beryllium from the system.
Element four, y’all!
posted by darkstar at 6:57 PM on March 30, 2019 [9 favorites]
And yes, these cutaways are gnarly, too!
posted by darkstar at 7:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by darkstar at 7:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I was following @TubeTimeUS since before it was famous.
Feh.
posted by Devonian at 7:14 PM on March 30, 2019
Feh.
posted by Devonian at 7:14 PM on March 30, 2019
Look, whatever it takes to get the EAS Protector off the ground.
posted by stevis23 at 7:18 PM on March 30, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 7:18 PM on March 30, 2019 [4 favorites]
My grandfather was an engineer at Sylvania in the 50s and 60s. Apparently there wasn't a lot of widespread knowledge about how hazardous some of these compounds could be, and consequently little consideration given for workplace safety. My mom and I were just talking about this yesterday, and she mentioned that her dad would frequently come home smelling like "banana oil," some kind of sickly-sweet smell.
His friend and colleague ended up dying of beryllium poisoning. Then my grandfather develped lung cancer, despite having never smoked in his life. He died in the late 60s. This was long before I was born, but given what I know about him, I think he and I would have had a lot in common.
I started tinkering with electronics last year, and now as ever, I wish he were around to talk to. I bet he would have loved this post. For all I know, he might have worked on the development of some of this technology, but no one really knows what he was involved in.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2019 [12 favorites]
His friend and colleague ended up dying of beryllium poisoning. Then my grandfather develped lung cancer, despite having never smoked in his life. He died in the late 60s. This was long before I was born, but given what I know about him, I think he and I would have had a lot in common.
I started tinkering with electronics last year, and now as ever, I wish he were around to talk to. I bet he would have loved this post. For all I know, he might have worked on the development of some of this technology, but no one really knows what he was involved in.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 8:09 PM on March 30, 2019 [12 favorites]
I really want those tantalum capacitors, but somehow I've just never been able to get my hands on any...
posted by traveler_ at 8:29 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by traveler_ at 8:29 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I should add that I'm sure someone who knows the full history of these components would know if any of their modern forms were developed at Sylvania. That's a history I really know nothing about. Presumably my grandfather worked on lamps and lighting, but that's the extent of what anyone knows; so I don't know if he was working on fluorescent ballast circuitry, or lighting control systems, or on the materials and design of the electronic components themselves (or light bulbs, or what have you).
Also, any idea what that "banana oil" smell might have been? I feel like I've encountered something like it in old electronics I've worked on, but I have no idea what it was (and god only knows what I was exposed to). My mom says she'd recognize the smell instantly, but she lost her sense of smell, so that's not happening.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 9:15 PM on March 30, 2019
Also, any idea what that "banana oil" smell might have been? I feel like I've encountered something like it in old electronics I've worked on, but I have no idea what it was (and god only knows what I was exposed to). My mom says she'd recognize the smell instantly, but she lost her sense of smell, so that's not happening.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 9:15 PM on March 30, 2019
Also, any idea what that "banana oil" smell might have been?
Banana oil generally refers to isopentyl acetate (also called isoamyl acetate), which has some industrial applications, though there are different (but related) compounds that are also called “banana oil” and have somewhat similar scents.
That said, beryllium compounds are known to taste sweet, which led to its early name of “glucine” as a result. However, I doubt that they would have a pronounced smell like bananas.
One other possibility, which I doubt, is that people who work with copper where it comes in contact with their skin can begin to have an odor due to the ketones that copper metal catalyzes from skin chemicals. But I’ve smelled this on a copper worker and ir’s more of a harsher chemical smell.
My bet would be isopentyl acetate or some related compounds used as an industrial solvent or additive in some electronic component or process.
posted by darkstar at 9:41 PM on March 30, 2019 [4 favorites]
Banana oil generally refers to isopentyl acetate (also called isoamyl acetate), which has some industrial applications, though there are different (but related) compounds that are also called “banana oil” and have somewhat similar scents.
That said, beryllium compounds are known to taste sweet, which led to its early name of “glucine” as a result. However, I doubt that they would have a pronounced smell like bananas.
One other possibility, which I doubt, is that people who work with copper where it comes in contact with their skin can begin to have an odor due to the ketones that copper metal catalyzes from skin chemicals. But I’ve smelled this on a copper worker and ir’s more of a harsher chemical smell.
My bet would be isopentyl acetate or some related compounds used as an industrial solvent or additive in some electronic component or process.
posted by darkstar at 9:41 PM on March 30, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh thanks! That’s very interesting. Yeah, it seems likely that it was one of those compounds, rather than beryllium or copper. Now I’m even more curious to know what he would have been using it for. I should buy his colleague’s textbook on lamps and lighting just to see what the science was like back then (plus, a good used copy will still come with the original pocket slide rule!).
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 11:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 11:10 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
This reminds me of this time lapse video of multilayer PCBs being cut away one tiny layer at a time using a CNC router.
posted by grahamparks at 11:19 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by grahamparks at 11:19 PM on March 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
That working LED cutaway is insanely cool.
posted by loquacious at 11:37 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 11:37 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
These are really cool. I think they would have helped with my education, where there was a weird gap between the atomic level and the circuit diagram level where it's just; shrug, a capacitor looks like this, its symbol is this, it's just arbitrary magic. It was always jarring to me and I didn't learn very well. (Could also just be I'm dumb.)
posted by fleacircus at 12:41 AM on March 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 12:41 AM on March 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
There is a bicycle chain lube which smells like bananas.
What is bananas though, is that link, and the wikipedia link from darkstar above both say it's used as an artificial flavor, but the wiki also says "IF ON SKIN (or hair): Remove/Take off immediately all contaminated clothing. Rinse skin with water/shower (if you hover over P303+361+353 in the GHS precautionary statements section). Safe enough to eat, but don't get it on your skin‽
And yes the LED with bond wire shot is amazing.
posted by ecco at 7:12 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
What is bananas though, is that link, and the wikipedia link from darkstar above both say it's used as an artificial flavor, but the wiki also says "IF ON SKIN (or hair): Remove/Take off immediately all contaminated clothing. Rinse skin with water/shower (if you hover over P303+361+353 in the GHS precautionary statements section). Safe enough to eat, but don't get it on your skin‽
And yes the LED with bond wire shot is amazing.
posted by ecco at 7:12 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
a weird gap between the atomic level and the circuit diagram level
This. I had a similar mental leap when I first encountered geometry in school vs. when I first had to understand geometry on a framing carpentry job.
My second time around with electronics has been much better than the first, partially because of things like these cutaways that make you understand how the physical structures are produced.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:00 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
This. I had a similar mental leap when I first encountered geometry in school vs. when I first had to understand geometry on a framing carpentry job.
My second time around with electronics has been much better than the first, partially because of things like these cutaways that make you understand how the physical structures are produced.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:00 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Safe enough to eat, but don't get it on your skin‽
The dose makes the poison.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:48 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
The dose makes the poison.
posted by Spathe Cadet at 8:48 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
If you like these, you'll probably also appreciate Zeptobars.
"We love microchips - That's why we boil them in acid."
posted by silentbicycle at 9:32 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
"We love microchips - That's why we boil them in acid."
posted by silentbicycle at 9:32 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
The dose makes the poison.
My o-chem students are amazed to learn that, of all of the chemicals we will work with in the lab in the coming semester (including sulfuric acid, acetone, acetic anhydride, and dichloromethane), the most toxic is...caffeine.
Then we get to discuss marketing phrases like “organic”, “all natural”, and “contains no chemicals”.
posted by darkstar at 10:20 AM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
My o-chem students are amazed to learn that, of all of the chemicals we will work with in the lab in the coming semester (including sulfuric acid, acetone, acetic anhydride, and dichloromethane), the most toxic is...caffeine.
Then we get to discuss marketing phrases like “organic”, “all natural”, and “contains no chemicals”.
posted by darkstar at 10:20 AM on March 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
There used to be a vinyl floor adhesive that smelled and looked exactly like butterscotch pudding. It was freaky using the stuff and should be avoided right before lunch.
posted by Mitheral at 10:41 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 10:41 AM on March 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yeah, as I pass 25 semesters teaching intro EE to undergrads, I am totally convinced that the current advanced state of components is a real detriment to understanding and connecting the dots between physics and real parts. I have at this point gone completely nuts either fabricating "deconstructed" parts (eg a capacitor from Saran Wrap and tinfoil) or buying antiques from eBay (like a cat's-whisker rectifier as the first real diode they see). Even something as simple as a switch is so many revisions deep that the basic behavior is totally encrusted with improvements. Here are the two metal contacts, but this part makes it easier to manufacture, this improves the contract area, this weird shape guarantees break-before-make, etc. It's way too much when you're just trying to absorb the basics, so an archaic Dr. Frankenstein knife switch goes a long way.
posted by range at 10:44 AM on March 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by range at 10:44 AM on March 31, 2019 [7 favorites]
Air-dielectric variable capacitors are still used by amateur radio tinkerers (as are vacuum dielectrics, but the air variety are so easy understand by looking). Apparently they aren't made much anymore but I heard on the Solder Smoke podcast about someone using 3D printing to help ensure a supply.
posted by exogenous at 3:39 PM on March 31, 2019
posted by exogenous at 3:39 PM on March 31, 2019
We had a massive antique wirewound rheostat in the electronics lab I was TAing for. In my attempts to use it as a conceptual aid, its presence seemed only to beget more confusion. Resistor dividers are a tough concept to crack for whatever reason.
posted by Standard Orange at 12:48 AM on April 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Standard Orange at 12:48 AM on April 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Air-dielectric variable capacitors are still used by amateur radio tinkerers [...]. Apparently they aren't made much anymore but I heard on the Solder Smoke podcast about someone using 3D printing to help ensure a supply.
3D printing isn't really necessary or that helpful for these. They're quite straightforward to make by stacking sheet metal pieces onto one or more shafts, with spacers between them. Cutting the sheet parts is an easy CNC job these days.
Continuously variable inductors, however, can be much more challenging and there is a really cool gallery of them run by Dave Knight G3YNH.
Both are heavily used in amateur radio for antenna matching - typically a matching unit will include two variable caps and one variable inductor.
posted by automatronic at 2:35 PM on April 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
3D printing isn't really necessary or that helpful for these. They're quite straightforward to make by stacking sheet metal pieces onto one or more shafts, with spacers between them. Cutting the sheet parts is an easy CNC job these days.
Continuously variable inductors, however, can be much more challenging and there is a really cool gallery of them run by Dave Knight G3YNH.
Both are heavily used in amateur radio for antenna matching - typically a matching unit will include two variable caps and one variable inductor.
posted by automatronic at 2:35 PM on April 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
an archaic Dr. Frankenstein knife switch goes a long way
Apparently not legal for residential wiring in DC, but since we own the house I'm really tempted to replace the basement light switches with these for that creepy horror-dungeon vibe.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:40 PM on April 1, 2019
Apparently not legal for residential wiring in DC, but since we own the house I'm really tempted to replace the basement light switches with these for that creepy horror-dungeon vibe.
posted by aspersioncast at 2:40 PM on April 1, 2019
A knife switch for the mains voltage would be rather dangerous but you could make it switch a low voltage and then use a relay to trigger the lights.
Regarding the 3D printed variable capacitors, I was also puzzled by what purpose that would serve. Spacers maybe? I have no idea what episode they were mentioned in but I think the person making them was identified.
posted by exogenous at 4:18 PM on April 1, 2019
Regarding the 3D printed variable capacitors, I was also puzzled by what purpose that would serve. Spacers maybe? I have no idea what episode they were mentioned in but I think the person making them was identified.
posted by exogenous at 4:18 PM on April 1, 2019
Regarding the 3D printed variable capacitors, I was also puzzled by what purpose that would serve. Spacers maybe?
You want the spacers to be conductive too though, because you want all the plates on each shaft to be connected together with minimal impedance.
Usually the only non-conductive parts are end plates supporting and isolating the shafts, which can be easily made as laser cut sheet plastic. Or they're metal too, and you have an insulating shaft, with just the spacers providing the electrical connection between sheet pieces on the same shaft. But that would be a simple plastic rod, turned or off the shelf.
It looks like some designs have the static plates attached to an insulating support, while the end pieces and the rotating shaft with the moving plates are all electrically connected and act as one terminal. It may be that they're printing that support piece.
Or it's just another instance of the misguided thinking that "this is rare or custom or out of production so 3D printing must be the answer because I've heard lots of stories where that was the case".
posted by automatronic at 3:05 AM on April 2, 2019
You want the spacers to be conductive too though, because you want all the plates on each shaft to be connected together with minimal impedance.
Usually the only non-conductive parts are end plates supporting and isolating the shafts, which can be easily made as laser cut sheet plastic. Or they're metal too, and you have an insulating shaft, with just the spacers providing the electrical connection between sheet pieces on the same shaft. But that would be a simple plastic rod, turned or off the shelf.
It looks like some designs have the static plates attached to an insulating support, while the end pieces and the rotating shaft with the moving plates are all electrically connected and act as one terminal. It may be that they're printing that support piece.
Or it's just another instance of the misguided thinking that "this is rare or custom or out of production so 3D printing must be the answer because I've heard lots of stories where that was the case".
posted by automatronic at 3:05 AM on April 2, 2019
I did a quick search and found this one with the spacers and support made from plastic which turns out to be the one Solder Smoke mentioned. People on hackaday pointed out a number of deficiencies and the author admitted that it's more of a proof-of-concept thing. I'm sure that making one big enough to be useful as a tuning cap would take enough work that most people would go buy one, but sometimes it fun to build more from scratch. Not suited for mass production after all!
posted by exogenous at 4:28 AM on April 2, 2019
posted by exogenous at 4:28 AM on April 2, 2019
Just make sure you set up the knife switch the right way ‘round. If mounted vertically, the “on” position should be pointing up, so that gravity doesn’t accidentally flip the switch on.
Movies often get this backward (presumably because slamming the switch downward looks more dramatic).
/pedantic pet peevery
posted by darkstar at 1:15 PM on April 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Movies often get this backward (presumably because slamming the switch downward looks more dramatic).
/pedantic pet peevery
posted by darkstar at 1:15 PM on April 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
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