"...sometimes, comedians inadvertently step on each other's feet."
May 10, 2019 10:49 AM Subscribe
Like many professional funnypeople, Conan O'Brien has been accused of stealing jokes from Twitter. Unlike most of those other people, O'Brien actually got sued for it. And this week, after years of litigation, just before that suit was about to see the inside of a courtroom, O'Brien (and his co-defendants) settled for an undisclosed amount. Conan then wrote a column for Variety explaining why, saying "I decided to forgo a potentially farcical and expensive jury trial in federal court over five jokes that don’t even make sense anymore."
In case anyone is wondering, the allegedly stolen jokes:
1) "A Delta flight this week took off from Cleveland to New York with just two passengers. And they fought over control of the armrest the entire flight"
2) "Tom Brady said he wants to give his MVP truck to the man who won the game for the Patriots. So enjoy that truck, Pete Carroll"
3) "The Washington Monument is ten inches shorter than previously thought. You know the winter has been cold when a monument suffers from shrinkage"
4) Something about Caitlyn Jenner that they didn't reprint but which I'm guessing is wildly transphobic.
There is absolutely joke-stealing happening on Twitter every day. You can find examples of it without even looking that hard, including from popular people who should know better, but this is pretty thin as an accusation. It might theoretically be suspicious to have new material about the Washington Monument at the same time as an obscure website was doing similar stuff, but all of these are clearly coming from recent news stories and current events. Maybe they have the same News of the Weird RSS feed or something. In any case, I can't see how you think that any of these are unique observations. Honestly, I'd probably be more embarrassed to have to admit that these were my jokes, because they are all pretty crummy.
I'm also somewhat curious how a random guy had the money to fund 4 years worth of legal expenses. That can't have been cheap unless he's also a lawyer or something.
posted by Copronymus at 11:19 AM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
1) "A Delta flight this week took off from Cleveland to New York with just two passengers. And they fought over control of the armrest the entire flight"
2) "Tom Brady said he wants to give his MVP truck to the man who won the game for the Patriots. So enjoy that truck, Pete Carroll"
3) "The Washington Monument is ten inches shorter than previously thought. You know the winter has been cold when a monument suffers from shrinkage"
4) Something about Caitlyn Jenner that they didn't reprint but which I'm guessing is wildly transphobic.
There is absolutely joke-stealing happening on Twitter every day. You can find examples of it without even looking that hard, including from popular people who should know better, but this is pretty thin as an accusation. It might theoretically be suspicious to have new material about the Washington Monument at the same time as an obscure website was doing similar stuff, but all of these are clearly coming from recent news stories and current events. Maybe they have the same News of the Weird RSS feed or something. In any case, I can't see how you think that any of these are unique observations. Honestly, I'd probably be more embarrassed to have to admit that these were my jokes, because they are all pretty crummy.
I'm also somewhat curious how a random guy had the money to fund 4 years worth of legal expenses. That can't have been cheap unless he's also a lawyer or something.
posted by Copronymus at 11:19 AM on May 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
Contingency. Conan, or Conan's production company, would be perceived to be relatively deep-pocketed, at least for this kind of scenario.
posted by praemunire at 11:27 AM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 11:27 AM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
IIRC, there were a couple of jokes struck from this case early because Conaco had evidence that they independently came up with the same jokes. They had emails sending them among the writing team from before Kaseberg published them. That always made the rest of the lawsuit seem pretty sketchy -- of all the thousands of very pat, tropey, topical one liners that Kaseberg publishes and Conan's writers write, there was bound to be some significant overlap. It's really interesting to see that because of this lawsuit, they actually started tracking it.
Maybe they did steal the jokes, and maybe they didn't -- but it seems like it would have been damn difficult to prove they did, unless some very interesting documents came to light on discovery. But if that's the case, it seems unlikely that Kaseberg would let Conan just flat out lie about it now.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:55 AM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
Maybe they did steal the jokes, and maybe they didn't -- but it seems like it would have been damn difficult to prove they did, unless some very interesting documents came to light on discovery. But if that's the case, it seems unlikely that Kaseberg would let Conan just flat out lie about it now.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:55 AM on May 10, 2019 [3 favorites]
So is this at heart an indictment of our legal system?
I think it is.
posted by El Curioso at 12:59 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think it is.
posted by El Curioso at 12:59 PM on May 10, 2019 [1 favorite]
My dad was a comedy writer, wrote for Joan Rivers, Bob Hope, plus all the top 70s UK comics, and I also love making and consuming news-based jokes myself (aka "topicals"), so I know this area.
This happens with topicals all the time. Some topicals are just inevitable given the news story. Even if only a fraction of a percent of people would think of it, that's a lot of people on Twitter.
I stupidly got into a fight with the Oatmeal guy because he did a joke after I tweeted it and it seemed like a very non-obvious gag to me, but it turns out a few people did the same topical before and after me.
It's like a packet collision on the network.
You also see this accidental duplication with observational material, but not at quite the same level. I think the worst case of all time is the comparison between people on the street talking on Bluetooth and crazy people talking to themselves. I must have heard a hundred comics do that bit, with the same variations (e.g. they should give crazy people headsets so they don't scare tourists). It's just obvious.
Some comics were fighting recently over a very obvious bit about how Russian sounds like it's backwards. Everyone has thought that.
Of course there is a problem that a rogue comic can use this as a cover for actually stealing material (Robin WIlliams, Carlos Mencia, Bob Monkhouse (UK)). Years ago, the news reported that Bob Monkhouse's personal handwritten joke book was stolen, which my dad thought was the funniest thing on Earth, given that Monkhouse stole all those jokes in the first place. Eventually Monkhouse offered a "no questions asked" reward for the notebook, and then called the police on the guy that returned it. Such a weasel.
posted by w0mbat at 1:10 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
This happens with topicals all the time. Some topicals are just inevitable given the news story. Even if only a fraction of a percent of people would think of it, that's a lot of people on Twitter.
I stupidly got into a fight with the Oatmeal guy because he did a joke after I tweeted it and it seemed like a very non-obvious gag to me, but it turns out a few people did the same topical before and after me.
It's like a packet collision on the network.
You also see this accidental duplication with observational material, but not at quite the same level. I think the worst case of all time is the comparison between people on the street talking on Bluetooth and crazy people talking to themselves. I must have heard a hundred comics do that bit, with the same variations (e.g. they should give crazy people headsets so they don't scare tourists). It's just obvious.
Some comics were fighting recently over a very obvious bit about how Russian sounds like it's backwards. Everyone has thought that.
Of course there is a problem that a rogue comic can use this as a cover for actually stealing material (Robin WIlliams, Carlos Mencia, Bob Monkhouse (UK)). Years ago, the news reported that Bob Monkhouse's personal handwritten joke book was stolen, which my dad thought was the funniest thing on Earth, given that Monkhouse stole all those jokes in the first place. Eventually Monkhouse offered a "no questions asked" reward for the notebook, and then called the police on the guy that returned it. Such a weasel.
posted by w0mbat at 1:10 PM on May 10, 2019 [25 favorites]
What the - if this is anyone but Steve Allen, you're stealing my bit!
posted by sysinfo at 8:09 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by sysinfo at 8:09 PM on May 10, 2019 [7 favorites]
If you read the column, Conan O’Brien lists the number of jokes that were the same that appeared on Twitter on various topics. More than 100 in one case. To me that is very telling and I do not believe that this is an admission of guilt by him or his writers in any way.
Some of the commenters on the column he wrote insisted that settling the lawsuit was an admission of guilt, but that’s bullshit. It’s just a practical decision, and O’Brien was fierce in defending the honesty of his writers. Lots of jokes are prompted by current events and there are now unprecedented numbers of smartasses on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. Of course there’s going to be duplication.
I had article ideas once stolen from a pitch letter I sent a magazine so I know that ideas can and are stolen on occasion. But I think it is more rare among professionals who are paid for their ideas than amateurs tend to think.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:48 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
Some of the commenters on the column he wrote insisted that settling the lawsuit was an admission of guilt, but that’s bullshit. It’s just a practical decision, and O’Brien was fierce in defending the honesty of his writers. Lots of jokes are prompted by current events and there are now unprecedented numbers of smartasses on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. Of course there’s going to be duplication.
I had article ideas once stolen from a pitch letter I sent a magazine so I know that ideas can and are stolen on occasion. But I think it is more rare among professionals who are paid for their ideas than amateurs tend to think.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:48 AM on May 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
comparison between people on the street talking on Bluetooth and crazy people talking to themselves.
wait, I thought that up all by myself just the other day (good thing I don't do national TV or have big bucks)
posted by sammyo at 9:30 AM on May 11, 2019
wait, I thought that up all by myself just the other day (good thing I don't do national TV or have big bucks)
posted by sammyo at 9:30 AM on May 11, 2019
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I'm not sure which is more embarrassing: suing Conan O'Brien for stealing your "hurr hurr sports coach bad" joke, or being Conan O'Brien and saying that joke on national TV.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:15 AM on May 10, 2019