Goth at 40: The enduring appeal of bleakness and black lipstick
July 7, 2019 3:26 PM Subscribe
“Goth seems to stay in people’s souls, even when they grow up and get jobs and have kids and stop dressing quite as outrageously as they once did. It is an outlook, a refuge, a dark corner made friendly by the presence of others.”
“[...] But what will hopefully save goth is that there’s a limit to how mainstream it can become. Its unprettiness is transgressive, as is the confusing way it mixes sexiness and decay. Goth’s androgyny, its embrace of eyelinered men in long skirts, isn’t easily appropriated by a masculinized culture, argues Michael Bibby, an English professor at Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania who co-edited “Goth: Undead Subculture,” and its music isn’t easily used in commercials — how do you sell something as downbeat as death? It functions as both a way of life and as an artful pose, a critique of “happy-happy culture,” as Bibby calls it. If it makes normals uncomfortable, that’s the point.”
“[...] But what will hopefully save goth is that there’s a limit to how mainstream it can become. Its unprettiness is transgressive, as is the confusing way it mixes sexiness and decay. Goth’s androgyny, its embrace of eyelinered men in long skirts, isn’t easily appropriated by a masculinized culture, argues Michael Bibby, an English professor at Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania who co-edited “Goth: Undead Subculture,” and its music isn’t easily used in commercials — how do you sell something as downbeat as death? It functions as both a way of life and as an artful pose, a critique of “happy-happy culture,” as Bibby calls it. If it makes normals uncomfortable, that’s the point.”
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
Love this article, until I read it, it didn’t occur to me how goth (whatever “goth” means) has endured when so many other subcultures have shriveled. I was never goth enough to wear makeup (as a cishet man) and my wardrobe was never more outré than black clothes with combat boots, but I’ve always carried the spirit of goth in my heart. I’m fact, just recently my SO asked me to stop wearing black jeans because they were “too goth,” but on the other hand, she asked me to put on the Cure on a long drive today, so maybe she just needs to be more accepting of her own gothness.
posted by ejs at 3:46 PM on July 7, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by ejs at 3:46 PM on July 7, 2019 [15 favorites]
I too am an old goth - as in, I was a goth in my youth but I’m old now. When I was in my late teens and the girls in my year were wearing belly tops and mini skirts and getting into acid house I was wearing hugely baggy Cure t-shirts, long black fringed skirts and docs. I still wear mostly black, and I’m secretly thrilled that my 10 year old niece has a love of black clothes - her mum rolls her eyes at me when I help her pick stuff out. I loved the makeup and the aim was the whitest foundation, the blackest eyeliner, and the darkest lipstick. Which was hard to find in small town N Ireland in the 90s. One of my best friends was also a goth but we didn’t know each other then, we met at work in later life, and we reminisced about the search for just the right shade of lipstick. So when I got home the other week and my husband had randomly bought me an amazing Nars lipstick I had to immediately send her a pic so we could squee over it together, aged 43. I asked him why he’d bought it and he said “I saw it and I knew your wee inner goth would love it.” This is why I married him. brb off to put Disintegration on repeat...
posted by billiebee at 3:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [32 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 3:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [32 favorites]
That lipstick looks more like sculpture than makeup. Well done him.
posted by notoriety public at 4:17 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by notoriety public at 4:17 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
I probably would have denied being a goth, but I did go through a phase where I dyed my hair black and wore really red lipstick and lots of black eyeliner and black clothes and had a glow-in-the-dark picture disk of Bela Lugosi's Dead. So yeah, I guess I was kind of a goth.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on July 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:21 PM on July 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
I was goth in the late-90s-early-00ties, it was good fun, but I feel like all that black hair dye has set my scalp up to be problematic in recent years.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:25 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:25 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have to wear somewhat "dressy" clothes as a costume for a middle-manager type in a play I'm performing in next month. I told the director I didn't think I had anything appropriate and he asked me to check my closet. So I looked through all the clothes I've accumulated over the decades that could be considered "dressy":
Bodystocking ... mesh shirt ... about 50 striped or patterned tights and thigh-highs ... black velvet vest ... PVC choker necklace ...
Yeah I'm gonna have to hit the charity shops.
posted by kyrademon at 5:00 PM on July 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
Bodystocking ... mesh shirt ... about 50 striped or patterned tights and thigh-highs ... black velvet vest ... PVC choker necklace ...
Yeah I'm gonna have to hit the charity shops.
posted by kyrademon at 5:00 PM on July 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
Maybe you can all help me with a question I haven’t been able to answer since I was 10: do you have to dress like a goth to be a goth, or is it about the things you like? Is it a combination of looks and interests, or is it more about who you hang out with?
Personally, I don’t really feel like I fit in with a crowd, but I have always been into dark and spooky stuff. I mean, to such a degree that it would be embarrassing to list it all. I’ve just never really looked the part, and I’ve never once worn velvet or eyeliner or dyed my hair black.
I’ve always said I was “basically a goth without the clothes,” but I’m wondering what the assembled goths in this thread think about that sort of statement.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:00 PM on July 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
Personally, I don’t really feel like I fit in with a crowd, but I have always been into dark and spooky stuff. I mean, to such a degree that it would be embarrassing to list it all. I’ve just never really looked the part, and I’ve never once worn velvet or eyeliner or dyed my hair black.
I’ve always said I was “basically a goth without the clothes,” but I’m wondering what the assembled goths in this thread think about that sort of statement.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:00 PM on July 7, 2019 [10 favorites]
> "I’m wondering what the assembled goths in this thread think about that sort of statement."
Sure, join the party. There's plenty of room on the tombstone and enough absinthe for everyone.
posted by kyrademon at 5:04 PM on July 7, 2019 [25 favorites]
Sure, join the party. There's plenty of room on the tombstone and enough absinthe for everyone.
posted by kyrademon at 5:04 PM on July 7, 2019 [25 favorites]
Oh cool, I love absinthe! Actually my very favorite drink is chartreuse, but it’s close enough.
Also haha now I’m remembering that I spent most of high school listening to the Interview With a Vampire soundtrack in my mom’s basement, so maybe I could have answered my own question.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:08 PM on July 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
Also haha now I’m remembering that I spent most of high school listening to the Interview With a Vampire soundtrack in my mom’s basement, so maybe I could have answered my own question.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:08 PM on July 7, 2019 [9 favorites]
I call it “flying the black flag”. I was never much for the big dressing up most of the time, black-shirt-black-pants-black-boots was my usual thing. And that only when I was going out, I wear regular clothes otherwise. My housemate DOES fly the black flag still, even at work.
If you’re content to just wearing the black on the inside, call yourself whatever you like.
posted by notoriety public at 5:11 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
If you’re content to just wearing the black on the inside, call yourself whatever you like.
posted by notoriety public at 5:11 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
> its music isn’t easily used in commercials
Was Modern English goth? Because they were on 4AD, which was a pretty gothy label back then, and "I Melt With You" has probably been used in commercials for everything except maybe life insurance.
posted by ardgedee at 5:12 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Was Modern English goth? Because they were on 4AD, which was a pretty gothy label back then, and "I Melt With You" has probably been used in commercials for everything except maybe life insurance.
posted by ardgedee at 5:12 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
(And yes, I know, it would be the exception that proves the rule.)
posted by ardgedee at 5:12 PM on July 7, 2019
posted by ardgedee at 5:12 PM on July 7, 2019
I'm an old goth (as in I'm old, and I've been a goth since the 80's, so get off my lawn), and my wardrobe is still 98% black, when I had an office job my look was what my husband dubbed "business goth"...I don't really think about it much, TBH. It's how I've been pretty much since I was a truly sentient being. It helps that everything I own matches everything else I own, since it's all dark black, black, or light black.
posted by biscotti at 5:35 PM on July 7, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by biscotti at 5:35 PM on July 7, 2019 [11 favorites]
shapes that haunt the dusk: I’ve always considered the music as the main identifier of goth. If you love the Cure or Dead Can Dance or Bauhaus or Sisters of Mercy or Alien Sex Fiend or one of another hundred bands that aren’t necessarily similar to each other, it’s because you respond to the feeling of goth at their core. Dress however you want (or have to), it’s not the outside signifiers that make you goth.
posted by ejs at 5:42 PM on July 7, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by ejs at 5:42 PM on July 7, 2019 [17 favorites]
I was never goth, though I kind of wish I was, but I'm 48 and my wardrobe is still 95% black, including docs, though that's more because I went through architecture school.
Anyway, the only actual goth in my life is Esther de Groot.
posted by signal at 5:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Anyway, the only actual goth in my life is Esther de Groot.
posted by signal at 5:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
Esther de Groot.
Man, I miss Scary Go Round.
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:20 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Man, I miss Scary Go Round.
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:20 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Anyone here remember Tamagothi?
In the late 90s, I remember a conversation with my very good friend, who was very squarely in the punk corner, where she called me a goth. "Pssh, I'm not goth," I protested. "Matthew, you wear big black boots, you dye your hair black, you wear mostly black clothes, and you listen to Nine Inch Nails and Aphex Twin. You're definitely a goth." I still pushed back. "There's nothing goth about Aphex Twin." To which she replied, "Everyone I know that listens to Aphex Twin has been a goth." I thought about everyone I knew that listened to Aphex Twin at the time, and Melanie was right. Again. (This latter fact was because Aphex Twin appeared on a recently-released Nine Inch Nails remix EP, and that was the primary vector most of us in south central Pennsylvania had to Warp records)
The NIN fan thing that I still operate (mostly as a Twitter account these days) got me a series of web developer jobs, which meant my wardrobe never really had to conform to business-y standards. Beyond leather jackets and black shirts, I didn't stray too far into the fashion of it - I grew up in central Pennsylvania and IRL, preferred keeping to myself over attracting attention - although I did have a pair of New Rock boots for a while, and sported platform boots to the Orpheus once or twice down in Baltimore. Stopped the black hair dye a while ago, although I did bring it back one year when I went as Evil Dead Ash for work's Halloween contest.
I did end up marrying an amazing woman who's so goth she's got a full page photo in Voltaire's "What is Goth?" - a goofy self-aware book you could find in Hot Topic in the early-to-mid-2000s. I've got some color in my wardrobe now, but nothing that requires me to sort my laundry. And while I haven't gone to anything resembling a goth event in a very long time, I had a pretty heavy hand in the recent resurgence of previously unreleased material by Coil. "Recoiled" on Cold Spring Records was based off a digital EP I put a lot of effort into after getting in touch with Danny Hyde - when they put their version out, they used the art direction and photography I'd used (after asking permission). My digital bootleg became an official* release, on CD and multiple editions of vinyl, I got a "Thanks" credit on it, and the unexpected success of that paved the way for the release of their lost late-90s album, Backwards. I don't know how goth that series of events is, but I know it made a lot of goths, uh, happy.
* It's real to me! To say that Coil fans' opinions about the legitimacy of posthumous Coil releases is complicated would be an understatement, let's not get into that here.
posted by Leviathant at 6:23 PM on July 7, 2019 [33 favorites]
In the late 90s, I remember a conversation with my very good friend, who was very squarely in the punk corner, where she called me a goth. "Pssh, I'm not goth," I protested. "Matthew, you wear big black boots, you dye your hair black, you wear mostly black clothes, and you listen to Nine Inch Nails and Aphex Twin. You're definitely a goth." I still pushed back. "There's nothing goth about Aphex Twin." To which she replied, "Everyone I know that listens to Aphex Twin has been a goth." I thought about everyone I knew that listened to Aphex Twin at the time, and Melanie was right. Again. (This latter fact was because Aphex Twin appeared on a recently-released Nine Inch Nails remix EP, and that was the primary vector most of us in south central Pennsylvania had to Warp records)
The NIN fan thing that I still operate (mostly as a Twitter account these days) got me a series of web developer jobs, which meant my wardrobe never really had to conform to business-y standards. Beyond leather jackets and black shirts, I didn't stray too far into the fashion of it - I grew up in central Pennsylvania and IRL, preferred keeping to myself over attracting attention - although I did have a pair of New Rock boots for a while, and sported platform boots to the Orpheus once or twice down in Baltimore. Stopped the black hair dye a while ago, although I did bring it back one year when I went as Evil Dead Ash for work's Halloween contest.
I did end up marrying an amazing woman who's so goth she's got a full page photo in Voltaire's "What is Goth?" - a goofy self-aware book you could find in Hot Topic in the early-to-mid-2000s. I've got some color in my wardrobe now, but nothing that requires me to sort my laundry. And while I haven't gone to anything resembling a goth event in a very long time, I had a pretty heavy hand in the recent resurgence of previously unreleased material by Coil. "Recoiled" on Cold Spring Records was based off a digital EP I put a lot of effort into after getting in touch with Danny Hyde - when they put their version out, they used the art direction and photography I'd used (after asking permission). My digital bootleg became an official* release, on CD and multiple editions of vinyl, I got a "Thanks" credit on it, and the unexpected success of that paved the way for the release of their lost late-90s album, Backwards. I don't know how goth that series of events is, but I know it made a lot of goths, uh, happy.
* It's real to me! To say that Coil fans' opinions about the legitimacy of posthumous Coil releases is complicated would be an understatement, let's not get into that here.
posted by Leviathant at 6:23 PM on July 7, 2019 [33 favorites]
I wore a peaked black witch hat to work (waiting tables) today and someone tipped me $6.66!
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 6:38 PM on July 7, 2019 [49 favorites]
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 6:38 PM on July 7, 2019 [49 favorites]
I used to swan around my high school campus in a no-fooling woolen black cloak (practical, actually) and wear an ankh pendant as a circlet. I largely wear colors, but I will always consider myself somewhat Goth--Goth emerita, if you will--because of my major depressive disorder. I feel this confers elite platinum Goth status.
I have always been secure about the permanence and inevitability of my relationship with the darkness, which is why I listened to TMBG instead of the Cocteau Twins.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:47 PM on July 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
I have always been secure about the permanence and inevitability of my relationship with the darkness, which is why I listened to TMBG instead of the Cocteau Twins.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:47 PM on July 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
My own aesthetic was more punk, but my high school years were basically an uninterrupted series of crushes on goth girls, none of whom was interested in me. I liked some of the goth music then and still do, and I admire anyone with the commitment to the costumes and makeup and hair, that is a lot of work.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:50 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 6:50 PM on July 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was...goth-adjacent? I liked a whole lot of the music, had many goth friends, went to the clubs every now and again, but was just never able to do the elaborate makeup/hair/accessorizing thing. I appreciate the aesthetic of others while being far far too lazy to attempt it myself.
I did have black babydoll dresses and Docs, though. And fishnets. My mom hated this look so so much, which was a bonus.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:02 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
I did have black babydoll dresses and Docs, though. And fishnets. My mom hated this look so so much, which was a bonus.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:02 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
notoriety public — ah, Neo! Medusa, Club Foot, Lucky Number, The Orbit Room, Limelight after midnight, Space Place, The Powerplant, Cool Running/Metro . . . Chicago.
I still wear Doc Martens most every day and all my trousers are black or grey. No patterned clothing, solid colours only, hair cut not far from Aeon Flux, black eyeliner, and dark lipstick. Keep your pastels to yourself.
4AD, Beggars Banquet — I still have all the vinyl.
As far as internalised Goths? Some of my favourite DJs back in the day were just that — blonde hair and fierce musical taste.
posted by lemon_icing at 7:24 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
I still wear Doc Martens most every day and all my trousers are black or grey. No patterned clothing, solid colours only, hair cut not far from Aeon Flux, black eyeliner, and dark lipstick. Keep your pastels to yourself.
4AD, Beggars Banquet — I still have all the vinyl.
As far as internalised Goths? Some of my favourite DJs back in the day were just that — blonde hair and fierce musical taste.
posted by lemon_icing at 7:24 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Guh, next you're going to tell me that Andrew Eldritch is moving back to Leeds.
posted by Philipschall at 7:25 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Philipschall at 7:25 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Holy Ministry T-Shirt, Leviathant, you're...Leviathant? I don't think I ever realized that.
I just found out yesterday that someone I've known since a.m.nin has been here all along, just a name I didn't recognize. I'm always delighted to cross paths with anybody from the old ninosphere.
I'm pretty much Business Goth, at this point. I'm a middle-aged consultant who mostly wears black and gray, and I take my nose ring out if I'm going onsite even though it probably doesn't even matter. I wear it the rest of the time to keep from being mistaken for a middle-aged white woman of unpleasant political opinions who wants to speak to your manager. It works even better when I have purple hair, but I don't do that when I have client meetings coming up.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:27 PM on July 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
I just found out yesterday that someone I've known since a.m.nin has been here all along, just a name I didn't recognize. I'm always delighted to cross paths with anybody from the old ninosphere.
I'm pretty much Business Goth, at this point. I'm a middle-aged consultant who mostly wears black and gray, and I take my nose ring out if I'm going onsite even though it probably doesn't even matter. I wear it the rest of the time to keep from being mistaken for a middle-aged white woman of unpleasant political opinions who wants to speak to your manager. It works even better when I have purple hair, but I don't do that when I have client meetings coming up.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:27 PM on July 7, 2019 [5 favorites]
R.I.P. Neo Nightclub, where I misspent 19 years before it passed away
I was goth-adjacent (dated and lived with goths, tall and thin and pale so I fit in without the clothes) and spent some time at Neo (many of my friends spent all their time there to the bitter end) so hi.
posted by davejay at 7:35 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I was goth-adjacent (dated and lived with goths, tall and thin and pale so I fit in without the clothes) and spent some time at Neo (many of my friends spent all their time there to the bitter end) so hi.
posted by davejay at 7:35 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Ohhh yeah, I think I went to Neo at least once or twice when I lived in Chicago.
What was the club in DC that was in, like, the basement of a hotel or something? I remember going in high school, and it was basically this unused fancy dining room with a dance floor full of decked-out goths. We only went a couple times, and it was surreal. That wasn’t Midnight, was it?
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 7:46 PM on July 7, 2019
What was the club in DC that was in, like, the basement of a hotel or something? I remember going in high school, and it was basically this unused fancy dining room with a dance floor full of decked-out goths. We only went a couple times, and it was surreal. That wasn’t Midnight, was it?
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 7:46 PM on July 7, 2019
BTW tangential but my home club was The Church in Dallas, and I recently found a probably questionable link to the certainly questionable 2-cd mix that Thursday night DJ (Young) Karl Fought released in...95? 96 maybe?
Anyway, what you wear is one facet, but what you like is more important to one's gothiness in the grand scheme of things.
I miss having a home club, and have periodically considered what it might take to open an Old Goths Home one day.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
Anyway, what you wear is one facet, but what you like is more important to one's gothiness in the grand scheme of things.
I miss having a home club, and have periodically considered what it might take to open an Old Goths Home one day.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
what it might take to open an Old Goths Home
Nihilism, longevity, and eye liner.
posted by hippybear at 7:52 PM on July 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
Nihilism, longevity, and eye liner.
posted by hippybear at 7:52 PM on July 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
One of my favorite things is Iman defending Goth on Project Runway Canada
posted by vespabelle at 7:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by vespabelle at 7:54 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
I'm just gonna add The Sisters of Mercy - Lucretia My Reflection, and yessssssssss I got to see them live.
posted by Little Dawn at 8:02 PM on July 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Little Dawn at 8:02 PM on July 7, 2019 [13 favorites]
Humanity was put on this earth to record Floodland and we've just been on a downward trajectory ever since.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:06 PM on July 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:06 PM on July 7, 2019 [12 favorites]
I kind of regret not having been a goth. It would have been perfect for me. By the time I was in college I was into industrial and found myself liking an increasingly wide range of goth music, had a couple of goth-adjacent friends, and appreciated the aesthetic without ever really participating in it.
posted by Foosnark at 8:13 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Foosnark at 8:13 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
When I was 16, I got my driver's license, and my older sister made me drive us to an industrial show with Meat Beat Manifesto and Consolidated. It was my first ever nightclub concert and I was very excited and asking her all of these annoying questions about the people that we saw in the venue.
"Are those punk kids over there in the corner?"
"The ones in black? No. Those are goths."
"What's the difference?"
"They have style."
She made me mixtapes with Nick Cave and Bauhaus and Joy Division, but this was the 90s when every month felt like a feast of new, exciting music. So those mixtapes also had My Bloody Valentine, The Pixies, and 808 State. I graduated from high school and entered college a mixture of industrial, raver, goth, and Britpop kid. I wound up hanging out with the ravers and techno kids, largely because I went to a small school and they were one of the few subcultures that hit critical mass. Then, one night, we went to a tunnel party at MIT that got busted, and my friends and I were left at loose ends, trying to figure out where to go next on a Saturday. I kept quiet and just listened to two of the seniors exchanging ideas.
"There's Manray."
"Isn't it goth night?"
"In the back, but there's techno in the front room."
"Sure, let's go. Beats driving all the way back to campus."
I was wearing blue jeans, a grey Kangol cap, and a white t-shirt with flourescent blue and orange techno graphics. They let us in. And I saw that back room, and it was just ... captivating. People dressed in drama, and dancing like divas. It felt like everyone knew each other, even if they didn't talk to one another. They were all just having so much fun, and I wound up spending more time in that back room than with my raver friends in the front.
I remember asking someone for a cigarette, and it was this tall gent in a blousy white poet's shirt and black PVC pants who just looked down at me and my blue jeans and kangol cap and said, "oh ... I'm sorry, this was my last one."
I just nodded and smiled and thought, "yeah, guy, I'm sure it is. But I get it. I'm going to come back here in a week and I'm going to be dressed differently, and I'm going to ask you again."
And I went again that next week in black jeans and a black Sandman t-shirt. And I kept going back.
As a brown-skinned immigrant stuck somewhere between Asia and the US, I valued subcultures because it was a context where my skin color didn't take precedence. The friends that I made in the scene wanted to know what I was reading, or what I thought of the last song that the DJ just played, or where I got my t-shirt. Not where I was from or what my name meant. To a degree, that happened in the rave scene, too, but there's an accelerated aging in techno, weeding out the folks who can't dance all night every weekend straight, so that you get older but everyone else stays 17.
The goth scene was a scene that I could feel would age with me. There were friends my own age, some older, and, of course, younger. We all occupied this spot in a Venn diagram between literary nerdiness, emotional music, and peacock fashion, and that was all a fine place to be. It's easy to confuse the gloom as our default state of being, that we're always depressed or wallowing in despair, and, to be fair, there are a lot of folks in the scene who do just wallow, but there are many who just understand that life is hard, life has real pain, life is short; and all of that makes those smaller moments of joy that much sweeter.
We all hung out at Manray, which, in the 90s was this universal safe space for all of the weirdos in Boston. Goth on Wednesdays, gay nights on Thursdays, Fetish Fridays, Goth or 80s on Saturdays. You could go in and have a good time and never get hassled. We made friends whom we'd hang out with after the clubs closed down, to get greasy post club pizzas at HiFi or fries at Delihaus, and then get home before the sunrise told us that our jobs were waiting.
Even after other clubs emerged to compete with Manray, the scene stayed small enough that for years, we all felt like if we saw a dark clad pale freak on the street, we either knew them or knew someone else who knew them. It was a weird little community, riven with its own cliques and ersatz families, but still tightly knit beyond the petty rivalries. Fundraisers happened if folks got burned out of their apartment, and people had a tendency to show up for each other if you were being harassed by "normals" out on the street.
I owe roommates, relationships, every job I've had for the past 20 years to that scene. I did not meet my wife in that scene. We dated long before either of us started hanging out with goths, then we broke up, and then we both independently found our way to ManRay and we both took that as a good sign.
It has aged with me in ways I did not anticipate. Nowadays our wardrobe has a little more blue or grey in its palette, and fewer of us go out as regularly as we used to, but we still hungrily devour music, and we still watch out for each other. We know, now more deeply and thoroughly, how life is hard -- a perspective that once, when we were younger, was based on some naivete and youthful impatience, but older that struggle has a deeper tone. But all that knowledge still sweetens the joy.
When my wife and I got married three years ago, a bunch of old friends from those club days reunited for the party, and we all looked at each other, gobsmacked for how so much of what we remembered of each other in the old days were still present. "You hadn't changed!" "You're still you!" And, to be fair, we all had changed. We all had grown and aged and matured, but the scene had helped us find others who were on a parallel journey to ours, and what we were remarking was less about how little any of us had changed but how all of the things we liked about each other, the nerdiness, the peacocks, the music, were still there. Only better.
posted by bl1nk at 8:59 PM on July 7, 2019 [53 favorites]
"Are those punk kids over there in the corner?"
"The ones in black? No. Those are goths."
"What's the difference?"
"They have style."
She made me mixtapes with Nick Cave and Bauhaus and Joy Division, but this was the 90s when every month felt like a feast of new, exciting music. So those mixtapes also had My Bloody Valentine, The Pixies, and 808 State. I graduated from high school and entered college a mixture of industrial, raver, goth, and Britpop kid. I wound up hanging out with the ravers and techno kids, largely because I went to a small school and they were one of the few subcultures that hit critical mass. Then, one night, we went to a tunnel party at MIT that got busted, and my friends and I were left at loose ends, trying to figure out where to go next on a Saturday. I kept quiet and just listened to two of the seniors exchanging ideas.
"There's Manray."
"Isn't it goth night?"
"In the back, but there's techno in the front room."
"Sure, let's go. Beats driving all the way back to campus."
I was wearing blue jeans, a grey Kangol cap, and a white t-shirt with flourescent blue and orange techno graphics. They let us in. And I saw that back room, and it was just ... captivating. People dressed in drama, and dancing like divas. It felt like everyone knew each other, even if they didn't talk to one another. They were all just having so much fun, and I wound up spending more time in that back room than with my raver friends in the front.
I remember asking someone for a cigarette, and it was this tall gent in a blousy white poet's shirt and black PVC pants who just looked down at me and my blue jeans and kangol cap and said, "oh ... I'm sorry, this was my last one."
I just nodded and smiled and thought, "yeah, guy, I'm sure it is. But I get it. I'm going to come back here in a week and I'm going to be dressed differently, and I'm going to ask you again."
And I went again that next week in black jeans and a black Sandman t-shirt. And I kept going back.
As a brown-skinned immigrant stuck somewhere between Asia and the US, I valued subcultures because it was a context where my skin color didn't take precedence. The friends that I made in the scene wanted to know what I was reading, or what I thought of the last song that the DJ just played, or where I got my t-shirt. Not where I was from or what my name meant. To a degree, that happened in the rave scene, too, but there's an accelerated aging in techno, weeding out the folks who can't dance all night every weekend straight, so that you get older but everyone else stays 17.
The goth scene was a scene that I could feel would age with me. There were friends my own age, some older, and, of course, younger. We all occupied this spot in a Venn diagram between literary nerdiness, emotional music, and peacock fashion, and that was all a fine place to be. It's easy to confuse the gloom as our default state of being, that we're always depressed or wallowing in despair, and, to be fair, there are a lot of folks in the scene who do just wallow, but there are many who just understand that life is hard, life has real pain, life is short; and all of that makes those smaller moments of joy that much sweeter.
We all hung out at Manray, which, in the 90s was this universal safe space for all of the weirdos in Boston. Goth on Wednesdays, gay nights on Thursdays, Fetish Fridays, Goth or 80s on Saturdays. You could go in and have a good time and never get hassled. We made friends whom we'd hang out with after the clubs closed down, to get greasy post club pizzas at HiFi or fries at Delihaus, and then get home before the sunrise told us that our jobs were waiting.
Even after other clubs emerged to compete with Manray, the scene stayed small enough that for years, we all felt like if we saw a dark clad pale freak on the street, we either knew them or knew someone else who knew them. It was a weird little community, riven with its own cliques and ersatz families, but still tightly knit beyond the petty rivalries. Fundraisers happened if folks got burned out of their apartment, and people had a tendency to show up for each other if you were being harassed by "normals" out on the street.
I owe roommates, relationships, every job I've had for the past 20 years to that scene. I did not meet my wife in that scene. We dated long before either of us started hanging out with goths, then we broke up, and then we both independently found our way to ManRay and we both took that as a good sign.
It has aged with me in ways I did not anticipate. Nowadays our wardrobe has a little more blue or grey in its palette, and fewer of us go out as regularly as we used to, but we still hungrily devour music, and we still watch out for each other. We know, now more deeply and thoroughly, how life is hard -- a perspective that once, when we were younger, was based on some naivete and youthful impatience, but older that struggle has a deeper tone. But all that knowledge still sweetens the joy.
When my wife and I got married three years ago, a bunch of old friends from those club days reunited for the party, and we all looked at each other, gobsmacked for how so much of what we remembered of each other in the old days were still present. "You hadn't changed!" "You're still you!" And, to be fair, we all had changed. We all had grown and aged and matured, but the scene had helped us find others who were on a parallel journey to ours, and what we were remarking was less about how little any of us had changed but how all of the things we liked about each other, the nerdiness, the peacocks, the music, were still there. Only better.
posted by bl1nk at 8:59 PM on July 7, 2019 [53 favorites]
It helps that everything I own matches everything else I own, since it's all dark black, black, or light black.
I just bought a black-gray couch and took a photo of my black-clad legs and black Adidas on it, and immediately dubbed it a camouflage couch, because I blend in.
The thing is, apart from that, I also just bought an astounding amount of curtains, and they're all in watercolor jewel tones and midcentury candy colors. I've always loved patterns—I just don't often wear them. Though I would if more were available in subtle shades of dark black, black, or light black. I am definitely a business goth.
My gothiness contains multitudes.
posted by limeonaire at 9:16 PM on July 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
I just bought a black-gray couch and took a photo of my black-clad legs and black Adidas on it, and immediately dubbed it a camouflage couch, because I blend in.
The thing is, apart from that, I also just bought an astounding amount of curtains, and they're all in watercolor jewel tones and midcentury candy colors. I've always loved patterns—I just don't often wear them. Though I would if more were available in subtle shades of dark black, black, or light black. I am definitely a business goth.
My gothiness contains multitudes.
posted by limeonaire at 9:16 PM on July 7, 2019 [2 favorites]
Recent conversation with my mother.
Mom: when you were younger, I was afraid you were going to turn into one of those goths. What is it they worship, anyway?
Me: Mom, you're the one who celebrated our birthdays on Halloween!
Apparently, you are never too old to roll your eyes at your parents not getting it.
(Halloween fell right between my September birthday and my sister's in November, and one big party was easier than two small ones. But you'll never convince me she didn't enjoy turning the basement into a party dungeon every year.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Mom: when you were younger, I was afraid you were going to turn into one of those goths. What is it they worship, anyway?
Me: Mom, you're the one who celebrated our birthdays on Halloween!
Apparently, you are never too old to roll your eyes at your parents not getting it.
(Halloween fell right between my September birthday and my sister's in November, and one big party was easier than two small ones. But you'll never convince me she didn't enjoy turning the basement into a party dungeon every year.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:37 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
we called it “alternative” in 80s Toronto, but hell yeah, we were goth. a lot of us attended the twice per weekend RHPS screenings and were in the “cast”; many of us spent too much time avoiding skin head and metal gangs so as not to get hassled or worse (not all of us succeeded; a friend of mine was badly knifed because he wore b/w makeup and a long black skirt). most of us are still friends, even though we are scattered hither and yon, and may wear bright colors.
posted by mollymillions at 9:46 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by mollymillions at 9:46 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
My inner goth takes expression when I swim. I only swim at night as to not expose my pale skin to the sun. I swim in a long sleeved black nylon shirt with black knee length nylon shorts. My black toenail polish is hidden in black swim socks. And my 5 foot long dark hair fans out on the surface, getting darker in the water until it sinks. I hum in a minor key...
posted by a humble nudibranch at 9:47 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 9:47 PM on July 7, 2019 [8 favorites]
Fashion-wise I'm more of a rainbow goth than anything*, but I do remember the life lesson I learned when I started wearing black t-shirts, eyeliner, & black lipstick to high school every day.
Immediately I went from being bullied & ostracized to being Spoken Of In Hushed Tones As Very Cool & Attractive But Possibly Too Cool To Ask Out, even though I was exactly the same mythology-obsessed doofus teen whose amount of social skills were written on her Smashing Pumpkins shirt (ZERO).
This is maybe why I don't feel comfortable leaving the house without visible signs of counterculture identity, now that I'm thinking about it.
* Very into the music, though. Also had a mega crush on Robert Smith. If you wanted to sleep with me in college you had to deal with him staring down moodily at you from every wall in the bedroom. Some people complained about this, but I don't have a suggestion box in my vagina, so fuck 'em.
posted by taquito sunrise at 9:53 PM on July 7, 2019 [17 favorites]
Immediately I went from being bullied & ostracized to being Spoken Of In Hushed Tones As Very Cool & Attractive But Possibly Too Cool To Ask Out, even though I was exactly the same mythology-obsessed doofus teen whose amount of social skills were written on her Smashing Pumpkins shirt (ZERO).
This is maybe why I don't feel comfortable leaving the house without visible signs of counterculture identity, now that I'm thinking about it.
* Very into the music, though. Also had a mega crush on Robert Smith. If you wanted to sleep with me in college you had to deal with him staring down moodily at you from every wall in the bedroom. Some people complained about this, but I don't have a suggestion box in my vagina, so fuck 'em.
posted by taquito sunrise at 9:53 PM on July 7, 2019 [17 favorites]
46 and still goth here. I don't wear boots every day anymore (even in the summer) as I wear comfortable (black) shoes so my feet hate me less. But it's still major news if anyone sees me in colour.
I still go out once in a great while and the Toronto goth scene lives on, though it's nothing like it was in the 90s or early 2000s. Goth is, like the article says, something that isn't grown out of. Or certainly it isn't easily grown out of. And oddly for all the transgressive aspects it was never something I felt like I had to grow out of to "get on with my life" As many of my in their 40s friends with kids or "real jobs" who are still relatively goth show.
This enduring aspect continuously amazes me and yet just feels natural.
posted by cirhosis at 9:58 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I still go out once in a great while and the Toronto goth scene lives on, though it's nothing like it was in the 90s or early 2000s. Goth is, like the article says, something that isn't grown out of. Or certainly it isn't easily grown out of. And oddly for all the transgressive aspects it was never something I felt like I had to grow out of to "get on with my life" As many of my in their 40s friends with kids or "real jobs" who are still relatively goth show.
This enduring aspect continuously amazes me and yet just feels natural.
posted by cirhosis at 9:58 PM on July 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm in sweat pants but I know every single band in this thread. Also I'm wearing these sweat pants aggressively, like...i wear them out on Saturday night at the fancy club where all the beautiful people are, because screw you, fashion, and that's kinda most of my wardrobe, plus lots of black jeans and hoodies. No piercings or tattoos because so much work, but I'm wary of friendship with people who lack them, and my t-shirts have the right bands on them.
So is apathetic athleisure/pajama goth a thing? Schlub-goth? I'm sticking with schlub-goth.
posted by saysthis at 11:18 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
So is apathetic athleisure/pajama goth a thing? Schlub-goth? I'm sticking with schlub-goth.
posted by saysthis at 11:18 PM on July 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
I got my first pair of blue, as opposed to black, jeans, at age 34. 16 years later and it still feels weird wearing anything that's not black. I occasionally buy a coloured or patterned shirt. It just hangs in my cupboard, surrounded by black shirts that get actually used, until I tire of looking at it and throw it away.
Alas, I no longer have hair to dye black.
posted by conifer at 11:33 PM on July 7, 2019
Alas, I no longer have hair to dye black.
posted by conifer at 11:33 PM on July 7, 2019
I always wanted to get a copy of How to Dance Goth . There is also a video tutorial.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:12 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:12 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Goth’s androgyny, its embrace of eyelinered men in long skirts, isn’t easily appropriated by a masculinized culture
Andrew “Gothloaf” Eldritch would like a word with you
posted by acb at 12:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Andrew “Gothloaf” Eldritch would like a word with you
posted by acb at 12:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
> "And I saw that back room, and it was just ... captivating."
I met my spouse in that back room.
She wore a black vinyl dress the first night I saw her, and also six years later when we got married.
On our first date, my eyes effectively turned into cartoon hearts whenever I looked at her. It was so obvious that she noticed, and she much later told me she'd been worried that I did that with everyone I went out with, but then a few days later she realized that, no ... it was just her.
We had our 18th anniversary a couple of weeks ago.
I think it's safe to say that I have fond memories of Man Ray.
posted by kyrademon at 1:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [21 favorites]
I met my spouse in that back room.
She wore a black vinyl dress the first night I saw her, and also six years later when we got married.
On our first date, my eyes effectively turned into cartoon hearts whenever I looked at her. It was so obvious that she noticed, and she much later told me she'd been worried that I did that with everyone I went out with, but then a few days later she realized that, no ... it was just her.
We had our 18th anniversary a couple of weeks ago.
I think it's safe to say that I have fond memories of Man Ray.
posted by kyrademon at 1:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [21 favorites]
"The ones in black? No. Those are goths."
"What's the difference?"
"They have style."
The combination of black/dark clothing and an oppositional stance seems to be perennial, since the time of the beatniks at least (if not les zazous in WW2 Paris or some earlier antecedent). The thing that fluctuates is the amount of style and the specifics of the oppositional stance (i.e., is it a rage against aspects of society like punk, an embracing of darkness and the idea of mortality as in goth, or a bit of both as in metal?).
The amount of style seems to seriously fluctuate. The recent crop of darklings tend to wear black hoodies with band logos on them, which no self-respecting goth would have worn back in the day.
posted by acb at 1:22 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
"What's the difference?"
"They have style."
The combination of black/dark clothing and an oppositional stance seems to be perennial, since the time of the beatniks at least (if not les zazous in WW2 Paris or some earlier antecedent). The thing that fluctuates is the amount of style and the specifics of the oppositional stance (i.e., is it a rage against aspects of society like punk, an embracing of darkness and the idea of mortality as in goth, or a bit of both as in metal?).
The amount of style seems to seriously fluctuate. The recent crop of darklings tend to wear black hoodies with band logos on them, which no self-respecting goth would have worn back in the day.
posted by acb at 1:22 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: There's plenty of room on the tombstone and enough absinthe for everyone.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:47 AM on July 8, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 2:47 AM on July 8, 2019 [11 favorites]
I was a USENET alt.gothic perky goth back around '88-95 or so. My idea of goth is that there's a bit of it in everything and is not tied to style, fashion, makeup, music or anything of the like. Goths are just those who find the goth in everything. Take for instance The Goth Code. There's a pretty wide spectrum of goth.
Nice boots, wanna fuck?
bounce, bounce, cartwheel
posted by zengargoyle at 4:35 AM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Nice boots, wanna fuck?
bounce, bounce, cartwheel
posted by zengargoyle at 4:35 AM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was a London goth in the 80s, with practically my entire wardrobe from the shops under KenHigh street. I recently bequeathed most of that gear, which is still in amazing condition considering how much wear it got, to my 15 year old niece. It was easier to be a goth in Europe, I think, because the culture wasn’t so white, whereas in Dallas and Austin clubs I was often the only brownish person. I couldn’t do the whiteface makeup, I went more heavy metal Victorian consumption, dark eyes, dark lips, no color for blush, etc, oversized leather jacket, sort of proto Lolita goth, but metal.
I dropped out of the scene, except for helping at shows, once I hit my mid thirties, because it’s a fairly young scene, and while being the Fairy gothmother, aka Martha Stewart of the Damned, was fun, at some point, you have to cede the stage to the next generation. Nobody wants to be the oldest person in the room.
That said, I still wear mostly black, I still have a vinyl collection of doom, many of them signed, and I still unilaterally refuse to let anyone else have, wear, or even glance longingly at my leathers. And I kinda wish, even though I rarely go out these days, that there was an over 50s goth club. Years ago My sister and I created AARG, the American Association of Retired Goths, an event we threw in some of the old clubs before they got bulldozed to put up condos. Maybe I’ll break the aarg out of retirement again. It could be a once a decade event. Heh. Frankly, I’m amazed most of us are still alive. Bela Lugosi’s dead, and you don’t feel so good yourself? We at the AARG feel your pain. 🤣 it would be hysterical to do an event where when you got carded you had to be over 40 or 50.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:19 AM on July 8, 2019 [15 favorites]
I dropped out of the scene, except for helping at shows, once I hit my mid thirties, because it’s a fairly young scene, and while being the Fairy gothmother, aka Martha Stewart of the Damned, was fun, at some point, you have to cede the stage to the next generation. Nobody wants to be the oldest person in the room.
That said, I still wear mostly black, I still have a vinyl collection of doom, many of them signed, and I still unilaterally refuse to let anyone else have, wear, or even glance longingly at my leathers. And I kinda wish, even though I rarely go out these days, that there was an over 50s goth club. Years ago My sister and I created AARG, the American Association of Retired Goths, an event we threw in some of the old clubs before they got bulldozed to put up condos. Maybe I’ll break the aarg out of retirement again. It could be a once a decade event. Heh. Frankly, I’m amazed most of us are still alive. Bela Lugosi’s dead, and you don’t feel so good yourself? We at the AARG feel your pain. 🤣 it would be hysterical to do an event where when you got carded you had to be over 40 or 50.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:19 AM on July 8, 2019 [15 favorites]
Old punk here, fly the flag, kids, fly the flag.
posted by evilDoug at 5:51 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 5:51 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
So is apathetic athleisure/pajama goth a thing? Schlub-goth? I'm sticking with schlub-goth.
Low-key goth?
posted by overglow at 5:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Low-key goth?
posted by overglow at 5:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Leviathant: "you wear big black boots, you dye your hair black, you wear mostly black clothes, and you listen to Nine Inch Nails and Aphex Twin. You're definitely a goth.""
I stand corrected, by that measure I was super goth.
posted by signal at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
I stand corrected, by that measure I was super goth.
posted by signal at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
We should all meet up one year at Whitby Goth Weekend.
posted by Paul Slade at 6:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 6:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
I dropped out of the scene, except for helping at shows, once I hit my mid thirties, because it’s a fairly young scene, and while being the Fairy gothmother, aka Martha Stewart of the Damned, was fun, at some point, you have to cede the stage to the next generation
[Citation needed]
posted by acb at 6:29 AM on July 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
[Citation needed]
posted by acb at 6:29 AM on July 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
So is apathetic athleisure/pajama goth a thing?
Well, Health Goth has been a thing for a while.
posted by acb at 6:46 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Well, Health Goth has been a thing for a while.
posted by acb at 6:46 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
A shout out to anybody who invited their goth friend to join them on a beach trip (the summer type, not a November evening). And who insisted despite their reluctance. And who then felt cruel when they saw the outcome they had wrought.
posted by rongorongo at 6:48 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 6:48 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
I havent called myself a goth in a long time. I still wear all black like I have since I was 13, but now at 40 I refer to my style as 'casual witch', or 'dark mori' as it is known in Japan. It's mostly tattered black skirts and flowy black layers. I do own a gently floppy peaked witch hat, but I usually wear a broad brimmed black wool hat with a low crown, as it keeps the sun out of my eyes better.
I spend a lot of my time in the forest gathering plants for making herbal remedies, so it all feels fairly appropriate. I moved to a small village in the mountains for the summer and I have been referred to as 'the witch girl' by someone who couldn't remember my name.
My music tastes never ran fully in line with goth culture, though I was a producer of major goth events in Denver for years. I liked the community, endless repetitions of Bella Lugosi's Dead notwithstanding. I still have friends I met in that scene.
My friends would probably all say I'm goth, based on wardrobe alone. I don't really feel like the term fits me anymore since I'm not involved in the community. But a classic goth move is to say "I'm not a goth", so. . .
PS the club in DC in the basement was called Catacombs :)
posted by ananci at 6:56 AM on July 8, 2019 [7 favorites]
I spend a lot of my time in the forest gathering plants for making herbal remedies, so it all feels fairly appropriate. I moved to a small village in the mountains for the summer and I have been referred to as 'the witch girl' by someone who couldn't remember my name.
My music tastes never ran fully in line with goth culture, though I was a producer of major goth events in Denver for years. I liked the community, endless repetitions of Bella Lugosi's Dead notwithstanding. I still have friends I met in that scene.
My friends would probably all say I'm goth, based on wardrobe alone. I don't really feel like the term fits me anymore since I'm not involved in the community. But a classic goth move is to say "I'm not a goth", so. . .
PS the club in DC in the basement was called Catacombs :)
posted by ananci at 6:56 AM on July 8, 2019 [7 favorites]
Wait - NIN was industrial/post-industrial, which the standard attire was also "all black", no?
Heh, Goth was cool, but I knew I could never pull it off... Well... turns out, there is one fashion overlap - alot of platform/fancy shoes that go well with rockabilly/50's bowling shirt style looks are apparently liked by goths as well - I wore out my pair that had a skull on the tread, because I loved them so much (TUK? Can't find a replacement pair anywhere).
So - a little story from a very long time ago... a bunch of us country yokels were visiting a friend who lived in the big city - that night, we were going to hit the coolest goth/industrial nightclub in town.
One of the group was the very nerdy looking/sounding/acting brother of the friend who lived in the city - and, well brothers being brothers, one was going to mess with the other.
So, the city brother was friends with the bouncers and made a deal - when we showed-up, they weren't going to let his country bumpkin nerdy brother into the club, because "you are not wearing enough black".
Much outrage when he was initially turned away at the door - much laughter afterwards.
posted by jkaczor at 7:42 AM on July 8, 2019
Heh, Goth was cool, but I knew I could never pull it off... Well... turns out, there is one fashion overlap - alot of platform/fancy shoes that go well with rockabilly/50's bowling shirt style looks are apparently liked by goths as well - I wore out my pair that had a skull on the tread, because I loved them so much (TUK? Can't find a replacement pair anywhere).
So - a little story from a very long time ago... a bunch of us country yokels were visiting a friend who lived in the big city - that night, we were going to hit the coolest goth/industrial nightclub in town.
One of the group was the very nerdy looking/sounding/acting brother of the friend who lived in the city - and, well brothers being brothers, one was going to mess with the other.
So, the city brother was friends with the bouncers and made a deal - when we showed-up, they weren't going to let his country bumpkin nerdy brother into the club, because "you are not wearing enough black".
Much outrage when he was initially turned away at the door - much laughter afterwards.
posted by jkaczor at 7:42 AM on July 8, 2019
There was always a lot of overlap between goth and industrial. Hence the Blues Brothers style joke:
“We play both kinds of music here. Gothic, AND Industrial!”
posted by notoriety public at 7:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
“We play both kinds of music here. Gothic, AND Industrial!”
posted by notoriety public at 7:58 AM on July 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
I never flew the goth flag but I spent a lot of time with them and enjoy the music. The most memorable time was a halloween around '89 (I think - it's fuzzy) and we ended up downtown Toronto at a goth club. Every single person was in full black goth gear. I was wearing light blue jeans and a white linen shirt. It was a goth club so it was dark and gloomy decor to match their crowd and most of the light was UV.
I fucking glowed!
Lots of really high kids kept asking me if I was an angel.
It was a very weird night. I ended up in independent cameraman's car driving all over the place chasing police scanner updates.
Some days are more Halloween than other days.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 AM on July 8, 2019 [11 favorites]
I fucking glowed!
Lots of really high kids kept asking me if I was an angel.
It was a very weird night. I ended up in independent cameraman's car driving all over the place chasing police scanner updates.
Some days are more Halloween than other days.
posted by srboisvert at 7:59 AM on July 8, 2019 [11 favorites]
srboisvert ... so, was that club multiple levels, with a cut-out atrium like open space in the center?
'cause...
posted by jkaczor at 8:07 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
'cause...
posted by jkaczor at 8:07 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Anne Lister's clothes in the TV series Gentleman Jack always strike me as being very goth.
posted by Paul Slade at 8:11 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 8:11 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh man this post. The most recent World Goth Day was my 40th birthday, and my actual teenage goth leather trenchcoat was borrowed for the 40 Years Of Men's Goth Style video referenced in the article (Trad Goth, 0:45), so a lot about this hits close to home.
I still wear all black, make weird music, and collect skull candles (they're cool, I don't care), but I think I'm more of a recovering goth these days. With that said, I recently had an amazing experience where I got to perform at the 25th Convergence net.goth festival, which was dope for a lot of reasons, the biggest one being that the 2nd Convergence was my first-ever music festival. I made a fake ID to get in, saw (Valor's) Christian Death and Switchblade Symphony, and generally had my life changed forever. Being able to go back 23 years later (!) and be part of the big anniversary celebration was something special.
posted by Jairus at 8:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
I still wear all black, make weird music, and collect skull candles (they're cool, I don't care), but I think I'm more of a recovering goth these days. With that said, I recently had an amazing experience where I got to perform at the 25th Convergence net.goth festival, which was dope for a lot of reasons, the biggest one being that the 2nd Convergence was my first-ever music festival. I made a fake ID to get in, saw (Valor's) Christian Death and Switchblade Symphony, and generally had my life changed forever. Being able to go back 23 years later (!) and be part of the big anniversary celebration was something special.
posted by Jairus at 8:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
PS the club in DC in the basement was called Catacombs :)
Nope, they're talking about Spellbound. Catacomb/Midnight was also in a basement around the corner, but didn't have the hotel restaurant vibe going, more of bar/cafeteria.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:37 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Nope, they're talking about Spellbound. Catacomb/Midnight was also in a basement around the corner, but didn't have the hotel restaurant vibe going, more of bar/cafeteria.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:37 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
I was an 80s goth. At one point my mother told me (around 14 or so) that she would buy me clothes, but nothing in black. I got my first job at 14. All of my highschool photos have the ring of liquid eyeliner around my eyes. I can't do my makeup for shit, but I am an expert at clean lines with black eyeliner. My mother kicked me out of my synagogue when I was in high school because I looked like "death warmed over." I have been to more Cure concerts than any other band.
I am currently sitting at my computer in black scrubs. There are two 6 inch bat stickers on my bathroom mirror. I build extreme Hallowe'en props and teach classes on tombstone building. I am a professional in my day life, but I still wear black every single day.
Goth4EVER, y'all.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:38 AM on July 8, 2019 [7 favorites]
I am currently sitting at my computer in black scrubs. There are two 6 inch bat stickers on my bathroom mirror. I build extreme Hallowe'en props and teach classes on tombstone building. I am a professional in my day life, but I still wear black every single day.
Goth4EVER, y'all.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:38 AM on July 8, 2019 [7 favorites]
Back in the day I used to joke that I was a demi-goth. Goth by the standards of my normal friends, but I did not commit to a daily gothwear look the way my GOTHgoth friends did. (Norfolk, VA, mid-nineties, if any of my comrades happen to be around here.)
Anyhoo, I came here to say, with affection, that I still can spot an aging goth from a mile away, even if they're not obviously flying the flag. There's always a little tell.
posted by desuetude at 8:39 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Anyhoo, I came here to say, with affection, that I still can spot an aging goth from a mile away, even if they're not obviously flying the flag. There's always a little tell.
posted by desuetude at 8:39 AM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
previously on Metafilter:
A Night at the Xclusiv ... THE HEIGHT OF GOTH: 1984: futuristic + way out young people.
posted by philip-random at 8:45 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
A Night at the Xclusiv ... THE HEIGHT OF GOTH: 1984: futuristic + way out young people.
posted by philip-random at 8:45 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's still one of my life goals to make it to Bats Day at Disneyland.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:59 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:59 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, Health Goth has been a thing for a while.
Read that entire article & still have no idea wtf Health Goth is supposed to be. Most strikingly I wondered: Are they including BioWare on their list of influences as in the video game company, like, "a Mass Effect aesthetic" (completely ignoring say Dragon Age), or do they think it's a term like "biohacking" that sounds cool & yields interesting search results on Pinterest (because of Mass Effect)?
posted by taquito sunrise at 9:10 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Read that entire article & still have no idea wtf Health Goth is supposed to be. Most strikingly I wondered: Are they including BioWare on their list of influences as in the video game company, like, "a Mass Effect aesthetic" (completely ignoring say Dragon Age), or do they think it's a term like "biohacking" that sounds cool & yields interesting search results on Pinterest (because of Mass Effect)?
posted by taquito sunrise at 9:10 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
Need new goth band suggestions please! Anyone?
posted by underavenue at 9:47 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by underavenue at 9:47 AM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
PS the club in DC in the basement was called Catacombs :)
Nope, they're talking about Spellbound.
Oh yeah! I just looked up a video of Spellbound, and while I don’t recognize the exact space, I do recognize the overall vibe of “there are normally wedding receptions and bat mitzvahs here.” Which makes sense if it’s a regular DIY thing. The video description says they started in 2007, which means I couldn’t have gone in high school — but I would have gone with the same friend group, so it still makes sense. Mystery solved!
I can’t picture Midnight or Catacombs. I’m pretty sure I went to something in high school, though. Whatever wasn’t 21-and-over.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 10:24 AM on July 8, 2019
Nope, they're talking about Spellbound.
Oh yeah! I just looked up a video of Spellbound, and while I don’t recognize the exact space, I do recognize the overall vibe of “there are normally wedding receptions and bat mitzvahs here.” Which makes sense if it’s a regular DIY thing. The video description says they started in 2007, which means I couldn’t have gone in high school — but I would have gone with the same friend group, so it still makes sense. Mystery solved!
I can’t picture Midnight or Catacombs. I’m pretty sure I went to something in high school, though. Whatever wasn’t 21-and-over.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 10:24 AM on July 8, 2019
Late 90s goth checking in. The goth scene in my little town stayed strong for a long time, but slowly drifted apart. Most of us still see each other once in a while, and support goth-adjacent groups. The local burlesque and drink-and-draw groups have a surprising amount of overlap.
I'm pretty much always wearing a blank black T-shirt and jeans these days, as kind of a uniform. My musical tastes are pretty wide and much less angsty. But I think I want to listen to something properly stompy here at work.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 10:29 AM on July 8, 2019
I'm pretty much always wearing a blank black T-shirt and jeans these days, as kind of a uniform. My musical tastes are pretty wide and much less angsty. But I think I want to listen to something properly stompy here at work.
posted by TheHuntForBlueMonday at 10:29 AM on July 8, 2019
I’ve always been confused by the whole goth term. In the early 80’s in Minneapolis we called it dark side. When I moved to Vienna it wasn’t called anything it was just how everyone young and into alternative music looked. It was just a dark black and white city back then pretty much cut off from the rest of Europe. The “Grufti” scene emerged but it was all about fashion. I don’t think I even heard the term goth until sometime in the early 90’s and none of the bands would use that term. But hey, I’m in my 50’s and grumpy and still get confused when people call Fugazi “emo”.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 11:21 AM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also, a shiny penny to anyone else who remembers the short-lived “Greebo” movement.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:22 AM on July 8, 2019
posted by misterpatrick at 11:22 AM on July 8, 2019
/having branched out into a.r.k. and NougatVision, and making perplexing choices, like pringles, ppc solaris, and potentially intercal on xenix, and then meandering to C25/ or something
posted by oonh at 11:25 AM on July 8, 2019
posted by oonh at 11:25 AM on July 8, 2019
I've been Goth for a few decades now, though I spent much of that time being too cool to admit it. My 12 years older sister was goth starting in the early 80s, and sharing a room with her as a kid transfered the love of darkness to me. I've never stopped, though my outward appearance has cycled through various levels of gothiness. I met my husband in the Goth scene. My kids are into goth and goth adjacent music - mostly because that is what they are exposed to. My 11 year old's favorite band is Dead Can Dance. My 6 year old likes Austra
Because of some dedicated people over the years, Phoenix has a thriving goth scene with multiple dance nights every week spanning the goth spectrum. A few weeks ago on a Friday evening I had my choice of modern industrial, new darkwave or 80s new wave/goth. The mix of people is fairy intergenerational. My club clique includes a 22 year old and a 62 year old. I'm in the middle at almost 40.
Every Wednesday we have the most wonderful night Lilith that pulls together an eclectic mix of new and old goth, dark electronica, trip hop, dream pop and any other beautiful but dark music the DJ can fit in. It is the best goth night I've been to, and I've been to many.
New(ish) goth recommendations - these are my current favorites. I'm sure they don't meet everyone's criteria for Goth, but that large umbrella I use to protect myself from our nemesis, the SUN also makes room for a lot of dark music.
Lebanon Hanover - Gallowdance
Box and the Twins - Place Called Nowhere
Torul - Count me In
TR/ST- Bicep
Tempers - What isn't There
Ghost Twin - Blue Room
Balvanera - Martir
Second Still - Recover
Kriistal Ann - She Walks in Beauty
Hante. - The Storm
posted by Lapin at 11:34 AM on July 8, 2019 [10 favorites]
Because of some dedicated people over the years, Phoenix has a thriving goth scene with multiple dance nights every week spanning the goth spectrum. A few weeks ago on a Friday evening I had my choice of modern industrial, new darkwave or 80s new wave/goth. The mix of people is fairy intergenerational. My club clique includes a 22 year old and a 62 year old. I'm in the middle at almost 40.
Every Wednesday we have the most wonderful night Lilith that pulls together an eclectic mix of new and old goth, dark electronica, trip hop, dream pop and any other beautiful but dark music the DJ can fit in. It is the best goth night I've been to, and I've been to many.
New(ish) goth recommendations - these are my current favorites. I'm sure they don't meet everyone's criteria for Goth, but that large umbrella I use to protect myself from our nemesis, the SUN also makes room for a lot of dark music.
Lebanon Hanover - Gallowdance
Box and the Twins - Place Called Nowhere
Torul - Count me In
TR/ST- Bicep
Tempers - What isn't There
Ghost Twin - Blue Room
Balvanera - Martir
Second Still - Recover
Kriistal Ann - She Walks in Beauty
Hante. - The Storm
posted by Lapin at 11:34 AM on July 8, 2019 [10 favorites]
There was always a lot of overlap between goth and industrial
Not to dis anyone's musical taste but I remember sitting through a certain video of Cleopatra Records' then-current "industrial-goth" roster and wanting to burn every bit of black clothing in my collection (definitely not throwing shade at originators like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, NiN, etc. but said "crossover" usually seemed to bring out the worst of both genres instead of the best).
Also, a shiny penny to anyone else who remembers the short-lived “Greebo” movement.
I actually interviewed Gaye Bykers on Acid once. Decent enough folks, even if I was more into pre-sampler Pop Will Eat Itself. (I'll donate the penny to the Metafund).
posted by gtrwolf at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Not to dis anyone's musical taste but I remember sitting through a certain video of Cleopatra Records' then-current "industrial-goth" roster and wanting to burn every bit of black clothing in my collection (definitely not throwing shade at originators like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, NiN, etc. but said "crossover" usually seemed to bring out the worst of both genres instead of the best).
Also, a shiny penny to anyone else who remembers the short-lived “Greebo” movement.
I actually interviewed Gaye Bykers on Acid once. Decent enough folks, even if I was more into pre-sampler Pop Will Eat Itself. (I'll donate the penny to the Metafund).
posted by gtrwolf at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
This whole thread warms my black, shriveled heart! I was a 90s goth, NYC and then Boston. Still wear black and gray, kept the piercings, added ink to stave off the boring middle-age dad look, and I still listen to a whole lot of goth music, but I've been out of the scene for 20+ years. Goth remains my sensibility and a style even when the club days are long gone, though I admit I'm nowhere near as dramatic (in fashion and personality) as I once was.
My wife and I met on OKCupid. My username was a My Life With The Thrill Kill Cult reference and she was the only one to get it. It was love at first sight and we've been together ever since. She was an LA goth and our lives and tastes parallel(ed) each other to a wonderful degree.
I miss hanging out with other goths. The whole culture seems forbidding to outsiders, but I've never known more welcoming, smart, kind, and friendly people in my life. Goth is an outsider's social club for people with taste.
posted by Lighthammer at 1:12 PM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
My wife and I met on OKCupid. My username was a My Life With The Thrill Kill Cult reference and she was the only one to get it. It was love at first sight and we've been together ever since. She was an LA goth and our lives and tastes parallel(ed) each other to a wonderful degree.
I miss hanging out with other goths. The whole culture seems forbidding to outsiders, but I've never known more welcoming, smart, kind, and friendly people in my life. Goth is an outsider's social club for people with taste.
posted by Lighthammer at 1:12 PM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Not to dis anyone's musical taste but I remember sitting through a certain video of Cleopatra Records' then-current "industrial-goth" roster and wanting to burn every bit of black clothing in my collection (definitely not throwing shade at originators like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, NiN, etc. but said "crossover" usually seemed to bring out the worst of both genres instead of the best).
You too?
I realised that I am not a goth (as opposed to Not A Goth) one evening in the 90s when I was listening to some identikit “electro-industrial” act (who may have been X Marks The Pedwalk, or may not), and found myself asking myself “why am I listening to this?”
posted by acb at 1:36 PM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
You too?
I realised that I am not a goth (as opposed to Not A Goth) one evening in the 90s when I was listening to some identikit “electro-industrial” act (who may have been X Marks The Pedwalk, or may not), and found myself asking myself “why am I listening to this?”
posted by acb at 1:36 PM on July 8, 2019 [1 favorite]
New(ish) goth recommendations -
Some goth-adjacent acts I'd add to the list (and vouch for):
She Past Away — synthpop meets early Cure, in Turkish. Probably classifiable as “coldwave”. Rather good.
Xeno & Oaklander — more dark electropop, this time from Brooklyn. They played support for Severed Heads in Stockholm recently.
Diskoteket — a post-punk/gothic-rock-styled band from Uppsala, Sweden (in Swedish).
Drab Majesty — an LA duo sounding like M83 with the goth dial cranked right up or something.
Them Are Us Too — more in a dreampop/sophistipop vein, like Cocteau Twins/Julee Cruise with perhaps a bit of The Cure and Berlin-era Giorgio Moroder. Sadly, one of this duo died in the Ghost Ship fire; the record was assembled posthumously from the album sessions they had been working on.
One could possibly count The KVB's electropop, Makthaverskan's post-punky indie-rock and/or My Favorite's melancholic synthpop/sophistipop as goth-adjacent as well.
posted by acb at 1:52 PM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Some goth-adjacent acts I'd add to the list (and vouch for):
She Past Away — synthpop meets early Cure, in Turkish. Probably classifiable as “coldwave”. Rather good.
Xeno & Oaklander — more dark electropop, this time from Brooklyn. They played support for Severed Heads in Stockholm recently.
Diskoteket — a post-punk/gothic-rock-styled band from Uppsala, Sweden (in Swedish).
Drab Majesty — an LA duo sounding like M83 with the goth dial cranked right up or something.
Them Are Us Too — more in a dreampop/sophistipop vein, like Cocteau Twins/Julee Cruise with perhaps a bit of The Cure and Berlin-era Giorgio Moroder. Sadly, one of this duo died in the Ghost Ship fire; the record was assembled posthumously from the album sessions they had been working on.
One could possibly count The KVB's electropop, Makthaverskan's post-punky indie-rock and/or My Favorite's melancholic synthpop/sophistipop as goth-adjacent as well.
posted by acb at 1:52 PM on July 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
Bee’sWing, I have grim tidings regarding Esther DeGroot: there are 50-odd issues of Giant Days ready for you to buy at Boom Studios.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:43 PM on July 8, 2019
posted by infinitewindow at 2:43 PM on July 8, 2019
I'm the opposite of a perkygoth, whatever that is.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:15 PM on July 8, 2019
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:15 PM on July 8, 2019
I was before the curve (older) than the Goth scene (and kinda scruffy), but I was into some of the gloomy 80s English Post-punk precursors. When I occasionally visited Goth bars in the 90s, most everyone that I met were polite & friendly.
posted by ovvl at 3:15 PM on July 8, 2019
posted by ovvl at 3:15 PM on July 8, 2019
> I'm the opposite of a perkygoth, whatever that is.
I believe that would be goth.
posted by ardgedee at 5:38 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
I believe that would be goth.
posted by ardgedee at 5:38 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Is it wrong of me to think of post-rock generally as being goth-adjacent? Both genres have a mutual interest in dark moods and big dramatic movements. Granted you can't really dance to Sigur Ros or Godspeed You! Black Emperor, not even in that kind of slow pacing with hands twirling sort of way, but Mogwai, even if they tend to wearing flannels and jeans, does a lot of stuff in waltz time and even has song titles like "Come On Die Young" and "Friend of the Night".
posted by ardgedee at 5:44 PM on July 8, 2019
posted by ardgedee at 5:44 PM on July 8, 2019
i mean, you don’t want to stick around in the scene so long that they refer to you as Bela Lugosi’s Dad
posted by murphy slaw at 7:29 PM on July 8, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by murphy slaw at 7:29 PM on July 8, 2019 [10 favorites]
Okay, y'all gonna have to call my office tomorrow morning and explain why I'm late for work.
Because it's night and I've just put onDissociation Disintegration by The Cure, first time in 20 years, and am well into the red wine.
The differences between now and 20 years ago are as follows:
(1) Disintegration is playing because I asked Alexa, rather than flipping a cassette from Side A to Side B and back. I still don't know how they managed to make this album, this is such a stroke of genius, so consistent, end to end. I can feel it working already, as if time has not passed at all.
(2) Instead of smoking Marlboro Gold or Salem (!) Menthol, I am snacking on Popchips Potato Chips (Sea Salt). Potentially less cool, potentially a washout in terms of health effects, but cheaper. Also I'm hungry.
(3) I am wearing all black, not quite on purpose, but obviously It Was Fate for me to come across this post tonight. Also, this is not that surprising, since I wear black about 60% of the time anyway nowadays. (The rest is navy blue and gray. I have diversified, like others in this thread.)
When I was gothing it in the early nineties, it was in a country that was a few years behind the worldwide fashions, and quite poor compared to American standards. Our goths didn't have money or pretense to wear make up, band t-shirts, or theater-costume-grade clothes. It was all black, often hand-me-downs or thrift store clothes, combat boots from real army surplus, maybe some lapel pins. When I first came to America and some friends took me to a goth night at a local Midwest club, I was at the same time jealous of the abundance these kids had, and at the same time it felt less genuine, while somehow still way unattainable for me.
Oh, I just remembered - American goths had nothing on German goths that I had seen a year earlier in small town Germany, though. These guys had goth in their blood, being German. I saw them every day in the same spot during breaks between classes at the local university, wreathed in cigarette smoke and gloom. I was, of course, never cool enough to start talking to them.
Such was the fate of uncool post-socialist goth wannabes.
posted by Ender's Friend at 7:51 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
Because it's night and I've just put on
The differences between now and 20 years ago are as follows:
(1) Disintegration is playing because I asked Alexa, rather than flipping a cassette from Side A to Side B and back. I still don't know how they managed to make this album, this is such a stroke of genius, so consistent, end to end. I can feel it working already, as if time has not passed at all.
(2) Instead of smoking Marlboro Gold or Salem (!) Menthol, I am snacking on Popchips Potato Chips (Sea Salt). Potentially less cool, potentially a washout in terms of health effects, but cheaper. Also I'm hungry.
(3) I am wearing all black, not quite on purpose, but obviously It Was Fate for me to come across this post tonight. Also, this is not that surprising, since I wear black about 60% of the time anyway nowadays. (The rest is navy blue and gray. I have diversified, like others in this thread.)
When I was gothing it in the early nineties, it was in a country that was a few years behind the worldwide fashions, and quite poor compared to American standards. Our goths didn't have money or pretense to wear make up, band t-shirts, or theater-costume-grade clothes. It was all black, often hand-me-downs or thrift store clothes, combat boots from real army surplus, maybe some lapel pins. When I first came to America and some friends took me to a goth night at a local Midwest club, I was at the same time jealous of the abundance these kids had, and at the same time it felt less genuine, while somehow still way unattainable for me.
Oh, I just remembered - American goths had nothing on German goths that I had seen a year earlier in small town Germany, though. These guys had goth in their blood, being German. I saw them every day in the same spot during breaks between classes at the local university, wreathed in cigarette smoke and gloom. I was, of course, never cool enough to start talking to them.
Such was the fate of uncool post-socialist goth wannabes.
posted by Ender's Friend at 7:51 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
I have always been secure about the permanence and inevitability of my relationship with the darkness, which is why I listened to TMBG instead of the Cocteau Twins.
I mean, let's be clear about this -- They Might Be Giants fans might have worn fezzes instead of black lipstick, but no band of the era was more unflinchingly focused on the inevitable decay, death, and disintegration of all human life.
posted by escabeche at 7:56 PM on July 8, 2019 [8 favorites]
I mean, let's be clear about this -- They Might Be Giants fans might have worn fezzes instead of black lipstick, but no band of the era was more unflinchingly focused on the inevitable decay, death, and disintegration of all human life.
posted by escabeche at 7:56 PM on July 8, 2019 [8 favorites]
I just looked up a video of Spellbound , and while I don’t recognize the exact space, I do recognize the overall vibe of “there are normally wedding receptions and bat mitzvahs here.”
We used to call it the Black Lobster. As in, Red Lobster, but goth.
posted by babelfish at 8:23 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
We used to call it the Black Lobster. As in, Red Lobster, but goth.
posted by babelfish at 8:23 PM on July 8, 2019 [4 favorites]
🎶human skull
on the ground
turn around🎶
posted by Countess Elena at 8:29 PM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
on the ground
turn around🎶
posted by Countess Elena at 8:29 PM on July 8, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah no, many of us entirely appreciated TMBG as goth-hearted, and I saw friends at their shows. Flood came out our senior year and every goth (but also basically every nerd) I knew in college knew the entire album word for word and all conversation would stop to sing along.
And the thing was, even when I was a Small Town Goth or when I ran with Goth Club Cool Kids, it was never exclusionary. Like, you didn't get thrown out of the smoking area for also liking pop, or for not drinking/smoking, or if your mom didn't let you wear dark eyeshadow or wear black (it was The South) and the literal gothest apparel you were allowed was a navy t-shirt (I in fact had a Navy Goth friend in our high school gang). That's WHY there's perky goths and theatre goths and soccer punks and bro goths and the whole thing: goth was a venn diagram like it came out of a bubble machine. Music was definitely a thing, but it was a huge spectrum from punk to metal to pop to waaaaay out there electronic and it was okay to like other things and do other things. That was really the cool part, it transcended a lot of real and manufactured dividers and you actually had friends with a breadth of life experience and opinions they stood behind.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:34 PM on July 8, 2019 [8 favorites]
And the thing was, even when I was a Small Town Goth or when I ran with Goth Club Cool Kids, it was never exclusionary. Like, you didn't get thrown out of the smoking area for also liking pop, or for not drinking/smoking, or if your mom didn't let you wear dark eyeshadow or wear black (it was The South) and the literal gothest apparel you were allowed was a navy t-shirt (I in fact had a Navy Goth friend in our high school gang). That's WHY there's perky goths and theatre goths and soccer punks and bro goths and the whole thing: goth was a venn diagram like it came out of a bubble machine. Music was definitely a thing, but it was a huge spectrum from punk to metal to pop to waaaaay out there electronic and it was okay to like other things and do other things. That was really the cool part, it transcended a lot of real and manufactured dividers and you actually had friends with a breadth of life experience and opinions they stood behind.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:34 PM on July 8, 2019 [8 favorites]
Goth is in the soul. The trappings drop away as we age, but there is still something identifiable. I offer you this anecdote from 2008, well after my outwardly-goth phase in high school in the 90s:
I'm at work. I'm wearing business casual. Probably black-heavy business casual, as I do, but business casual nonetheless, and normal-professional-looking makeup, and my hair is mousy brown and styled neatly and normally.
A coworker comes up to me. We chat. I don't remember the topic. I probably said something kind of dark and she replied: "Were you... gothic... in high school?"
"Yes, and I continue to be gothic today," I replied, tickled to be recognized.
posted by millipede at 9:47 AM on July 9, 2019 [7 favorites]
I'm at work. I'm wearing business casual. Probably black-heavy business casual, as I do, but business casual nonetheless, and normal-professional-looking makeup, and my hair is mousy brown and styled neatly and normally.
A coworker comes up to me. We chat. I don't remember the topic. I probably said something kind of dark and she replied: "Were you... gothic... in high school?"
"Yes, and I continue to be gothic today," I replied, tickled to be recognized.
posted by millipede at 9:47 AM on July 9, 2019 [7 favorites]
My only comment is that I read the headline and thought "40? Hell, I'm almost 50."
I had a bunch of thoughts about aging goths when I saw Bauhaus TWENTY YEARS AGO on a reunion tour. But they just came through town again this year, making much hay about the upcoming 40th anniversary of the release of "Bela Lugosi's Dead," and in that moment I almost crumbled to dust because I had a train of thought like "shit, man, I just saw them (does math) TWENTY YEARS AGO OH FUCK".
I thought I was old then. At 29. Ugh.
posted by uberchet at 12:44 PM on July 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
I had a bunch of thoughts about aging goths when I saw Bauhaus TWENTY YEARS AGO on a reunion tour. But they just came through town again this year, making much hay about the upcoming 40th anniversary of the release of "Bela Lugosi's Dead," and in that moment I almost crumbled to dust because I had a train of thought like "shit, man, I just saw them (does math) TWENTY YEARS AGO OH FUCK".
I thought I was old then. At 29. Ugh.
posted by uberchet at 12:44 PM on July 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
> I'm the opposite of a perkygoth, whatever that is.
I believe that would be goth.
Not quite, I'm a very colorful dresser but am not exactly a cheerful personality.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:18 PM on July 10, 2019
I believe that would be goth.
Not quite, I'm a very colorful dresser but am not exactly a cheerful personality.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:18 PM on July 10, 2019
Less than 24 hours ago, from Lin-Manuel Miranda:
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:32 PM on July 10, 2019 [5 favorites]
I binged What We Do In The Shadows last week (GUILLERMO!) and devoured Los Espookys premiere last night. The goth Latinx representation on TV is so damn strong and hilarious right now my teen Meat Loaf-The Crow-The Cure-Anne Rice-reading-ass is LIVINGI KNEW IT. I knew the author of the line "I imagine death so much it feels more like a memory" had to be a goth. ONE OF US ONE OF US
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:32 PM on July 10, 2019 [5 favorites]
Not quite, I'm a very colorful dresser but am not exactly a cheerful personality.
You could be an evil scary clown. That would be pretty rad.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:46 PM on July 10, 2019
You could be an evil scary clown. That would be pretty rad.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:46 PM on July 10, 2019
I raise a glass to Flashback, back in Edmonton in the 80s. Ave.
I still wear black. and i'm still getting shit for it. I turn 50 this year. they ought to know better.
posted by oenanthe at 7:57 PM on July 10, 2019
I still wear black. and i'm still getting shit for it. I turn 50 this year. they ought to know better.
posted by oenanthe at 7:57 PM on July 10, 2019
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“Old goths never die. But it gradually grows more difficult to tell the difference.”
posted by notoriety public at 3:41 PM on July 7, 2019 [64 favorites]