Why does every country have a different F#$%ing electrical plug?
March 29, 2020 8:03 AM Subscribe
Ok, maybe not every country, but with at least 12 different sockets in widespread use it sure feels like it to anyone who's ever traveled. So why are there so many? Funny story! Gizmodo explains.
"For decades after the first standards, newfangled el-ec-trick-al dee-vices had to be patched directly into your house's wiring, which today sounds like a terrifying prospect. Then, too, it was: Harvey Hubbell's "Separable Attachment Plug" (patented in 1904)...was designed with a simple intention: To do away with the possibility of arcing or sparking in making connection, so that electrical power in buildings may be utilized by persons having no electrical knowledge or skill.
"Here's the thing: Stories like that of Harvey Hubbell's plug were unfolding all over the world, each with their own twist on the concept..."
"For decades after the first standards, newfangled el-ec-trick-al dee-vices had to be patched directly into your house's wiring, which today sounds like a terrifying prospect. Then, too, it was: Harvey Hubbell's "Separable Attachment Plug" (patented in 1904)...was designed with a simple intention: To do away with the possibility of arcing or sparking in making connection, so that electrical power in buildings may be utilized by persons having no electrical knowledge or skill.
"Here's the thing: Stories like that of Harvey Hubbell's plug were unfolding all over the world, each with their own twist on the concept..."
The map is not good. Malaysia often has Type I sockets.
That quibble aside: Obligatory XKCD.
posted by pompomtom at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
That quibble aside: Obligatory XKCD.
posted by pompomtom at 8:34 AM on March 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
I always have to laugh when I see the subtle elegance of an Apple power brick savagely undermined by the cancerous goiter of a UK plug.
posted by sonascope at 8:39 AM on March 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 8:39 AM on March 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
Oh piss off. The UK plug is massive to ensure that anyone's buggered kettle doesn't burn their house down.
posted by pompomtom at 8:44 AM on March 29, 2020 [33 favorites]
posted by pompomtom at 8:44 AM on March 29, 2020 [33 favorites]
sheer bulk aside, the UK plug and receptacle seem like good design. Massive GND that makes contact first. No confusion over live/neutral. Deep contacts and partially sleeved live/neutral reduce the possibility of accidental contact. Fuse of last resort directly in the plug. There may be other things not to like (greater chance of foot stabby-stabby? cost?) and of course there are non-compliant plugs which lack safety features like sleeve and fuse, particularly on imported goods.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:45 AM on March 29, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:45 AM on March 29, 2020 [25 favorites]
Somewhere in the pile of unpacked boxes, likely in several different boxes, I have a not-insignificant collection of adapters for international travel. I always say a little prayer to the electrical gods when I plug in my devices overseas, always a little fearful I'm going to do something wrong and let out the magic smoke from a $2,000 laptop.
posted by jzb at 8:46 AM on March 29, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by jzb at 8:46 AM on March 29, 2020 [12 favorites]
Omg and trying to talk to the "adamant non-technical" (if not anti-technical) travelers in your life. A single reference would also be a godsend but never see one. The terminology is all mixed up, and unsurprisingly translation tools are not all that helpful.
The one great improvement for some devices is the Thyristor, the semiconductor that allows chargers to work on either 110 or 200 volts. If you can plug it in, it charges!
posted by sammyo at 8:47 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
The one great improvement for some devices is the Thyristor, the semiconductor that allows chargers to work on either 110 or 200 volts. If you can plug it in, it charges!
posted by sammyo at 8:47 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
UK wall sockets also have individual on/off switches for each socket.
posted by carter at 8:59 AM on March 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by carter at 8:59 AM on March 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
UK wall sockets also have individual on/off switches for each socket.
One thing I truly hate about the US is that some power points arc whenever one plugs a device in. Inside a house. That is most likely wood framed. It's something that truly boggles the mind.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2020 [18 favorites]
One thing I truly hate about the US is that some power points arc whenever one plugs a device in. Inside a house. That is most likely wood framed. It's something that truly boggles the mind.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2020 [18 favorites]
Re: UK plugs, don't forget that the sockets have a shutter over the line and neutral contacts; they only open when the ground pin is inserted (on better quality sockets, even inserting a screwdriver or other object won't open the shutter; the shutter can only be moved by something that has the shape of a ground pin).
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:19 AM on March 29, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:19 AM on March 29, 2020 [12 favorites]
(In fact, shutters were originally mandated in 1947, the origin of the plug, while sleeves at the base of the line & neutral pins only appeared in the 1980s)
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:20 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:20 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
...while sleeves at the base of the line & neutral pins only appeared in the 1980s
I have personal experience of the pre-sleeve pins. I somehow managed to wedge a finger between plug and socket on more than one occasion as a kid. I got used to being thrown several feet by an electric shock at least once every couple of months growing up, such were those times...
posted by pipeski at 9:34 AM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
I have personal experience of the pre-sleeve pins. I somehow managed to wedge a finger between plug and socket on more than one occasion as a kid. I got used to being thrown several feet by an electric shock at least once every couple of months growing up, such were those times...
posted by pipeski at 9:34 AM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
Tom Scott's video explains it all. "British Plugs Are Better Than All Other Plugs, And Here's Why"
( SLYT )
posted by ewan at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2020 [16 favorites]
( SLYT )
posted by ewan at 9:36 AM on March 29, 2020 [16 favorites]
In the sixties the UK still had two major variants going - round pin and square pin - and some very local ones. That was why, until relatively recently, appliances were sold without plugs in the UK, just a bare wire. The first thing you had to do was get out your screwdriver and wire up the required one.
posted by Segundus at 9:37 AM on March 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 9:37 AM on March 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
Type H plugs are so angry, Type I plugs so sad.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:38 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:38 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
The map is not good. Malaysia often has Type I sockets.
That quibble aside: Obligatory XKCD.
Look up the history of Type J, which was supposed to replace C, D, E, F, K, H, L, M, and N, but now exists as it's own type since no one wanted to rewire all their countries except for Switzerland.
posted by jmauro at 9:42 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
That quibble aside: Obligatory XKCD.
Look up the history of Type J, which was supposed to replace C, D, E, F, K, H, L, M, and N, but now exists as it's own type since no one wanted to rewire all their countries except for Switzerland.
posted by jmauro at 9:42 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I always have to laugh when I see the subtle elegance of an Apple power brick savagely undermined by the cancerous goiter of a UK plug.
Apple: form over and above function, safety, repairability.
but this comment sums up pretty much consumer electronics these days vs engineered electronics that met a government spec where the engineers and safety considerations led the design.
posted by lalochezia at 9:46 AM on March 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
The silly thing with US plugs is how easy it is, particularly when you're feeling your way to getting something plugged into a powerstrip in the dusty darkness, to be simultaneously feeling your way around the tines of the plug with your fingertips just as you managed to get it slotARRRRGH.
That's why I like the designs where they move the contact point to the tip with sleeved insulator leading up, which would go a hell of a long way to prevent electrocution, especially when it comes to kids.
I tend to think we'll arrive at some variant of a low-voltage breakout at every outlet, like USB (I've got the integrated USB outlets installed in almost every room in my house at this point) or something similar, now that almost everything runs on DC except for appliances, so you have a few big giant plugs around for heat generating things and big motors, but mostly you'll just skip out on needing to have piles of wall-warts everywhere.
UK plugs are great for being the one household item on earth worse to step on barefoot than a Lego brick. Mind you, I'd like to have one in my home, installed solely to run my unattainable dream appliance, the absurd object of joy known as a teasmade, which answers the question of what could possibly be better to flail at in the dark than a mere clock radio whilst you're in bed and barely awake and something is buzzing loudly? [A: a clock radio full of boiling hot tea] Sadly, the 50hz problem means that the clock won't work in the US, which is a bummer for me.
posted by sonascope at 9:54 AM on March 29, 2020 [9 favorites]
That's why I like the designs where they move the contact point to the tip with sleeved insulator leading up, which would go a hell of a long way to prevent electrocution, especially when it comes to kids.
I tend to think we'll arrive at some variant of a low-voltage breakout at every outlet, like USB (I've got the integrated USB outlets installed in almost every room in my house at this point) or something similar, now that almost everything runs on DC except for appliances, so you have a few big giant plugs around for heat generating things and big motors, but mostly you'll just skip out on needing to have piles of wall-warts everywhere.
UK plugs are great for being the one household item on earth worse to step on barefoot than a Lego brick. Mind you, I'd like to have one in my home, installed solely to run my unattainable dream appliance, the absurd object of joy known as a teasmade, which answers the question of what could possibly be better to flail at in the dark than a mere clock radio whilst you're in bed and barely awake and something is buzzing loudly? [A: a clock radio full of boiling hot tea] Sadly, the 50hz problem means that the clock won't work in the US, which is a bummer for me.
posted by sonascope at 9:54 AM on March 29, 2020 [9 favorites]
Apple: form over and above function, safety, repairability.
Unserviceable power bricks are a universal problem, not an Apple-is-always-wrong problem.
I'm more amused that Apple doesn't just make a big blocky cubelike model just for the UK market, but using the pigtail instead of the fold-down connector solves all the problems except where to fit all that mess in a messenger bag.
posted by sonascope at 9:57 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Unserviceable power bricks are a universal problem, not an Apple-is-always-wrong problem.
I'm more amused that Apple doesn't just make a big blocky cubelike model just for the UK market, but using the pigtail instead of the fold-down connector solves all the problems except where to fit all that mess in a messenger bag.
posted by sonascope at 9:57 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
I haven't used my travel adapters in the past few years in Thailand, Singapore (and now Bali!) because universal outlets are becoming common. They have a bunch of holes, including what looks like the British ones, but no problems so far...
Of course I still carry them.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:04 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Of course I still carry them.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:04 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
The Danish Type K socket is clearly superior because it is adorbs, but when I'm forced to pretend to be a grownup I will reluctantly concede that the plugs with contacts sleeved partway up are the only sensible choice.
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:20 AM on March 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 10:20 AM on March 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
In the sixties the UK still had two major variants going - round pin and square pin - and some very local ones. That was why, until relatively recently, appliances were sold without plugs in the UK, just a bare wire. The first thing you had to do was get out your screwdriver and wire up the required one.
Ah! I'd always vaguely wondered why that stopped being a thing - assumed it was because components are now so much cheaper with globalised markets, that it's easily affordable for every device to come with a pre-fitted plug. The fact we've only relatively recently moved to standardised sockets also makes sense.
I've always thought that'll be one of the things that marks me out as an Old Person in due course - when I tell people I can remember the days you had to install your own plug on new electrical items, when part of growing up was learning how to wire a plug. Once it stops being a thing, it seems crazy.
posted by penguin pie at 10:24 AM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Ah! I'd always vaguely wondered why that stopped being a thing - assumed it was because components are now so much cheaper with globalised markets, that it's easily affordable for every device to come with a pre-fitted plug. The fact we've only relatively recently moved to standardised sockets also makes sense.
I've always thought that'll be one of the things that marks me out as an Old Person in due course - when I tell people I can remember the days you had to install your own plug on new electrical items, when part of growing up was learning how to wire a plug. Once it stops being a thing, it seems crazy.
posted by penguin pie at 10:24 AM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Perhaps someday homes will have a central AC/DC converter and we'll all be able to plug in USB-C PD gadgets at the wall.
posted by adamrice at 10:25 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by adamrice at 10:25 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I do love the modularity of modern power bricks, though. The end of the giant separate transformer with a zillion plugs that still requires you to have yet another transformer to then adapt the adapted power to your device is one of those modern miracles. Being able to pack a bag for my globe-trotting domestic partner with just a single Anker brick with the appropriate plug(s) and cables to charge his various gear feels ultramodern, particularly when I have his junkbox full of previous power "solutions" to reference.
On the other side of that coin, my boss at the university decided we needed the latest and greatest Nespresso Professional Gemini 221 fancypants espresso machines with integral milk foaming device (which, sadly, I am "mother" to for the whole damn lab), and those things came with a giant humming 240v to 120v transformer the size and approximate density of eight loaves of Rubschlager.
posted by sonascope at 10:29 AM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
On the other side of that coin, my boss at the university decided we needed the latest and greatest Nespresso Professional Gemini 221 fancypants espresso machines with integral milk foaming device (which, sadly, I am "mother" to for the whole damn lab), and those things came with a giant humming 240v to 120v transformer the size and approximate density of eight loaves of Rubschlager.
posted by sonascope at 10:29 AM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
The real universal plugs are USB types A and C
posted by sleeping bear at 10:32 AM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by sleeping bear at 10:32 AM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Perhaps someday homes will have a central AC/DC converter and we'll all be able to plug in USB-C PD gadgets at the wall.
Still doesn’t make sense. A laptop’s worth of power at 5V starts getting significant efficiency losses with any cable longer than a couple feet, unless it’s an enormously thick wire (which means it’s expensive, hard to work with, and won’t fit if you have a lot of circuits)
posted by aubilenon at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Still doesn’t make sense. A laptop’s worth of power at 5V starts getting significant efficiency losses with any cable longer than a couple feet, unless it’s an enormously thick wire (which means it’s expensive, hard to work with, and won’t fit if you have a lot of circuits)
posted by aubilenon at 10:45 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
USB charging sockets are the worst. My old PS4 refuses to charge controllers. My phone can only be charged on a pad. None of the three USB ports on my laptop work. I hate USBs with a burning passion.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:48 AM on March 29, 2020
posted by Dumsnill at 10:48 AM on March 29, 2020
Having experienced both, I definitely recommend being shocked by 110V/60Hz rather than 220V/50Hz.
As for plugs, I don't mind the ludicrous toaster-sized UK ones so much, even though I did once rewire an outlet to avoid having to own one. I mind the Swiss ones, because they are almost kind of like standard euro plugs, but it's all a lie.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:52 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
As for plugs, I don't mind the ludicrous toaster-sized UK ones so much, even though I did once rewire an outlet to avoid having to own one. I mind the Swiss ones, because they are almost kind of like standard euro plugs, but it's all a lie.
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 10:52 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
The real universal plugs are USB types A and C
The universal plug is... two different plugs?
posted by good in a vacuum at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2020 [17 favorites]
The universal plug is... two different plugs?
posted by good in a vacuum at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2020 [17 favorites]
With all the faults of the UK ones one clear advantage is that they sit flat in the socket and direct the cable down to the nearest surface or floor, very close to the wall. It is easy to use the space in front of the socket and easy to neatly contain the cables along the wall. It doesn’t look messy and it is really difficult for the plug to loosen over time. I never accidentally unplugged anything in the UK, here in Switzerland I manage it frequently. And yay for the international sockets that make their way into more and more hotels and conference rooms because this
I mind the Swiss ones, because they are almost kind of like standard euro plugs, but it's all a lie.
causes people to take extreme measures. Several of my esteemed colleagues have been known to lever out the middle prong of the Swiss ones in the doorframe of their hotel room or even sew them off...this would all be power cables for laptops, nobody has been electrocuted so far. But I feel it’s a clear indication of a design flaw.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
I mind the Swiss ones, because they are almost kind of like standard euro plugs, but it's all a lie.
causes people to take extreme measures. Several of my esteemed colleagues have been known to lever out the middle prong of the Swiss ones in the doorframe of their hotel room or even sew them off...this would all be power cables for laptops, nobody has been electrocuted so far. But I feel it’s a clear indication of a design flaw.
posted by koahiatamadl at 11:15 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Like the UK plugs or not, is pretty galling that former UK colonies were left in the lurch with dangerous round plug sockets that have holes big enough to accomodate children's fingers.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:23 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:23 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
I remember an article by Douglas Adams where he predicted the DC universal standard will be the car cigarette lighter. But yeah, it seems USB is overtaking that by now.
posted by RobotHero at 11:25 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 11:25 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
My proposal would be AUSNZ plugs and sockets, mandatory shutters activated by the ground pin (or a plastic pin on two pin plugs), mandatory insulation sleeves, mandatory polarisation, side entry cables only.
We would start installing them in the NEMA (US, Canada, Mexico) markets with 230 V sockets in kitchens and then everywhere.. but that wouldn't work, because you's also need a neutral.. argh.
A big problem with USB sockets is their durability and safety: many of them are wretched and will only last a couple of years. Maybe we could standardise on 24 V DC?
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 11:35 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
We would start installing them in the NEMA (US, Canada, Mexico) markets with 230 V sockets in kitchens and then everywhere.. but that wouldn't work, because you's also need a neutral.. argh.
A big problem with USB sockets is their durability and safety: many of them are wretched and will only last a couple of years. Maybe we could standardise on 24 V DC?
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 11:35 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh piss off. The UK plug is massive to ensure that anyone's buggered kettle doesn't burn their house down.
The thing is that buggered kettles don't burn down houses much at all. At least not in 120V land.
I always thought the UK design was theoretically better, at least where safety is concerned in a 240V country. I wonder if UK wiring was notoriously bad until fairly recent years. Can't be denied that their bulk is absurd, though.
In real life, the type A and B designs most common in North America aren't much of a problem. Well designed shuttered sockets are a good idea that's never really caught on though. The only one's I've seen in the US are most often used on power strips and child-proofing wall socket covers, and I find really annoying, where you have to insert the plug and twist or slide the shutter to match the socket.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:47 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
The thing is that buggered kettles don't burn down houses much at all. At least not in 120V land.
I always thought the UK design was theoretically better, at least where safety is concerned in a 240V country. I wonder if UK wiring was notoriously bad until fairly recent years. Can't be denied that their bulk is absurd, though.
In real life, the type A and B designs most common in North America aren't much of a problem. Well designed shuttered sockets are a good idea that's never really caught on though. The only one's I've seen in the US are most often used on power strips and child-proofing wall socket covers, and I find really annoying, where you have to insert the plug and twist or slide the shutter to match the socket.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:47 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh piss off. The UK plug is massive to ensure that anyone's buggered kettle doesn't burn their house down.
It still looks stupid
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2020
It still looks stupid
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:53 AM on March 29, 2020
USB has definitely solved travel adaptor problems for me. Just take a laptop and one adaptor, and then everything else charges off the laptop.
US plugs are weird... unlike NZ, AUS, or UK plugs .They just fall out of the socket all the time. They don't 'click' into place. Not my fave.
posted by aychedee at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
US plugs are weird... unlike NZ, AUS, or UK plugs .They just fall out of the socket all the time. They don't 'click' into place. Not my fave.
posted by aychedee at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Apple: form over and above function, safety, repairability.
If this was actually true Apple would have implemented this years and years ago.
posted by nushustu at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
If this was actually true Apple would have implemented this years and years ago.
posted by nushustu at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
I wonder if UK wiring was notoriously bad until fairly recent years.
Certainly old US wiring was extremely bad, and I’ve seen and argued with contractors about some brand new bad wiring. Though that was bad in a special 2020 way where our stupid shitty expensive IoT light switch was downstream from the stupid shitty expensive IoT lighting controller so when you turned off the lights the light switch would lose power and you couldn’t use it to turn them back on. Great job there, Einsteins.
posted by aubilenon at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Certainly old US wiring was extremely bad, and I’ve seen and argued with contractors about some brand new bad wiring. Though that was bad in a special 2020 way where our stupid shitty expensive IoT light switch was downstream from the stupid shitty expensive IoT lighting controller so when you turned off the lights the light switch would lose power and you couldn’t use it to turn them back on. Great job there, Einsteins.
posted by aubilenon at 12:15 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Having the wire not extending horizontally out of the standard UK plug is such a clearly superior design in most situations, I can't understand why more countries didn't adopt it.
posted by theory at 12:24 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by theory at 12:24 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
Though, also note in North America, electric ovens and dryers typically have their own 240 volt plugs. Which IIRC is in the process of converting from a three-prong plug towards a four-prong plug as the standard. But that means the typical house has only one or two of those outlets, with appliances you tend to just leave plugged in until you get a replacement, so it's not as much of a problem. And you aren't likely to travel with your oven and dryer.
From the article, I find it interesting that Harvey Hubbell's "Separable Attachment Plug" worked with a light bulb socket. Because they had already managed that people could replace a light bulb without being an electrician. Also the patent includes two versions, one that works with the Edison socket, and one that works with the Thomson- Houston socket. So he was accommodating two different standards for light bulbs as well.
There are still some varying standards for light bulb sockets in use even if one standard is vastly more common. My house has three different incompatible types of light bulbs. But, again, we typically leave those in their sockets until they need replacing and don't take them with us when we're travelling.
posted by RobotHero at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
From the article, I find it interesting that Harvey Hubbell's "Separable Attachment Plug" worked with a light bulb socket. Because they had already managed that people could replace a light bulb without being an electrician. Also the patent includes two versions, one that works with the Edison socket, and one that works with the Thomson- Houston socket. So he was accommodating two different standards for light bulbs as well.
There are still some varying standards for light bulb sockets in use even if one standard is vastly more common. My house has three different incompatible types of light bulbs. But, again, we typically leave those in their sockets until they need replacing and don't take them with us when we're travelling.
posted by RobotHero at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Still doesn’t make sense. A laptop’s worth of power at 5V starts getting significant efficiency losses with any cable longer than a couple feet, unless it’s an enormously thick wire (which means it’s expensive, hard to work with, and won’t fit if you have a lot of circuits)
USB-PD goes up to 20V for this reason. You still don’t want to wire a house with 20V cabling, but it’s a lot better than 5V for power delivery.
posted by pharm at 12:41 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
USB-PD goes up to 20V for this reason. You still don’t want to wire a house with 20V cabling, but it’s a lot better than 5V for power delivery.
posted by pharm at 12:41 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Certainly old US wiring was extremely bad
I was once crawling around the attic of my then-it's-complicated's place in Los Angeles, a stately old house in West Adams built in the sort of "ultimate bungalow" style, if more restrained than the grander examples, looking to run a satellite wire to the the box where we'd set up the TV when I received, to put it in the polite terms Marjorie Meriweather Post might have gently employed, a massive motherfucking shit-loosening fuckshow of a lightning bolt, at which point I realized that all the wiring in the house was goddamned knob and tube bare wiring and I'd managed to clamber across thirty feet of death before getting that little warning shot over the bow.
Suffice it to say, it took me significantly longer to get out of the attic than I'd have preferred.
posted by sonascope at 12:44 PM on March 29, 2020 [32 favorites]
I was once crawling around the attic of my then-it's-complicated's place in Los Angeles, a stately old house in West Adams built in the sort of "ultimate bungalow" style, if more restrained than the grander examples, looking to run a satellite wire to the the box where we'd set up the TV when I received, to put it in the polite terms Marjorie Meriweather Post might have gently employed, a massive motherfucking shit-loosening fuckshow of a lightning bolt, at which point I realized that all the wiring in the house was goddamned knob and tube bare wiring and I'd managed to clamber across thirty feet of death before getting that little warning shot over the bow.
Suffice it to say, it took me significantly longer to get out of the attic than I'd have preferred.
posted by sonascope at 12:44 PM on March 29, 2020 [32 favorites]
Sadly, the 50hz problem means that the clock won't work in the US, which is a bummer for me.
Time goes 17 percent slower in Europe, but with twice as much pressure.
posted by atoxyl at 12:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [19 favorites]
Time goes 17 percent slower in Europe, but with twice as much pressure.
posted by atoxyl at 12:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [19 favorites]
I have never heard of anything like knob & tube wiring being found in any current UK property. It seems to be a semi-regular occurrence in the US, so take that as anecdotal evidence of the relative quality of UK wiring if you like :)
posted by pharm at 12:48 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by pharm at 12:48 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
Though, also note in North America, electric ovens and dryers typically have their own 240 volt plugs.
I always thought the way this works was kind of clever - you get two 120V lines running into the house wired 180 degrees out of phase so they can be wired back together for an overall potential of 240V. It didn't occur to me before that this arrangement is presumably unknown in countries that use 240V standard.
posted by atoxyl at 12:54 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
I always thought the way this works was kind of clever - you get two 120V lines running into the house wired 180 degrees out of phase so they can be wired back together for an overall potential of 240V. It didn't occur to me before that this arrangement is presumably unknown in countries that use 240V standard.
posted by atoxyl at 12:54 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
The downside of USB sockets is that they are kind of a nightmare from a data security standpoint.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 1:05 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 1:05 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
In the sixties the UK still had two major variants going - round pin and square pin - and some very local ones. That was why, until relatively recently, appliances were sold without plugs in the UK, just a bare wire. The first thing you had to do was get out your screwdriver and wire up the required one.
Different light bulb sockets, too—at least they did 15 years ago. I’m still irrationally angry about the light bulb I bought as a broke grad student, only to find out it didn’t fit my bedside lamp. Like, what the FUCK, UK
posted by Automocar at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Different light bulb sockets, too—at least they did 15 years ago. I’m still irrationally angry about the light bulb I bought as a broke grad student, only to find out it didn’t fit my bedside lamp. Like, what the FUCK, UK
posted by Automocar at 1:08 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
The real universal plugs are USB types A and CWell, it's worse than that. You've got two different plug shapes, but then with USB PD the charger might also be willing to supply +9, +12 (for the outdated USB PD Rev 1.0 spec), +15, or +20 V at various different maxiumum currents to be able to power a device taking somewhere between 2.5W and 100W. But that has to be silently negotiated between the device and the charger, with no indication on the port. And the USB cables? They've also got their own set of supported voltages and ampages, again with no indication on the cable. And your cable might or might not actually meet specs. Only way to find out is to plug things in and see, e.g. checking that your laptop is charging as fast as you'd expect, or look up the specs on your device, charger, and cable.The universal plug is... two different plugs?
Oh, and then there's a variety of manufacturer specific alternate standards for charging at more than 5V/0.5A, including:
- Qualcomm Quick Charge
- MediaTek Pump Express
- Samsung Adaptive Fast Charging
- Oppo Super VOOC Flash Charge/ OnePlus Dash Charge / Warp Charge
- Huawei SuperCharge
- Anker PowerIQ
posted by JiBB at 1:16 PM on March 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
→ a central AC/DC converter
Only once the insurers are okay with it. DC wiring has a considerably higher fire risk than AC.
posted by scruss at 1:29 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Only once the insurers are okay with it. DC wiring has a considerably higher fire risk than AC.
posted by scruss at 1:29 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are still some varying standards for light bulb sockets in use even if one standard is vastly more common.
Among the many things to hate Edison for: those godawful screw mounts. Why can't we use the bayonet types like a sane country?
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
Among the many things to hate Edison for: those godawful screw mounts. Why can't we use the bayonet types like a sane country?
posted by tobascodagama at 1:50 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
I was going to write that those 15A round pin plugs that the South Africans used were always a rarity in the UK and had disappeared long ago. IIRC they only appeared in combined cooker switch and outlet sockets, I guess to plug your kettle in.
I was surprised, verging on astonished, to find that MK still sell the sockets.
posted by StephenB at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2020
I was surprised, verging on astonished, to find that MK still sell the sockets.
posted by StephenB at 2:32 PM on March 29, 2020
sonascope, here's at least one version of a Teasmade-type appliance, wired for North America.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:42 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:42 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
“ It didn't occur to me before that this arrangement is presumably unknown in countries that use 240V standard.”
Au contraire, mon amis! We do the same in 240V-land and let our appliances rip with 400V, muahhhhhahaaaa!
This is very convenient in the kitchen for the induction hobs. Gets things to boiling pretty damn quick, if I may say so old chap. (Not assuming any gender, so sorry. Just pulling vaguely European sounding phrases out of my butt.) The hobs are fused with 3x 16A in my neck of the woods. (Edited for more boasting contrary to site standard)
posted by mmkhd at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
Au contraire, mon amis! We do the same in 240V-land and let our appliances rip with 400V, muahhhhhahaaaa!
This is very convenient in the kitchen for the induction hobs. Gets things to boiling pretty damn quick, if I may say so old chap. (Not assuming any gender, so sorry. Just pulling vaguely European sounding phrases out of my butt.) The hobs are fused with 3x 16A in my neck of the woods. (Edited for more boasting contrary to site standard)
posted by mmkhd at 3:12 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
I used to live in the part of Culver City just adjacent to West Adams. There was knob and tube wiring in the rafters -- but fortunately it had long ago been disconnected.
Our horror story is that -- thanks to termites -- the roof over the kitchen was supported largely by the exterior stucco.
posted by Slothrup at 3:30 PM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Our horror story is that -- thanks to termites -- the roof over the kitchen was supported largely by the exterior stucco.
posted by Slothrup at 3:30 PM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Fancy having a spat about plugs! We all need to get out more.
posted by glasseyes at 3:39 PM on March 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 3:39 PM on March 29, 2020 [11 favorites]
There is some absence of evidence to call South Africa a former UK colony.
posted by glasseyes at 3:41 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by glasseyes at 3:41 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
My headcanon is that the UK uses 240V (along with all the concomitant over-engineering and attendance to safety that implies) entirely because it takes too damn long to boil the kettle for tea at 110V.
I have a feeling this is genuinely true, but haven't felt sufficiently enthused to go and look it up yet. It is, however, somewhat indicative that we have an entire power station built to buffer the effects of what happens when a large portion of the country decides to put a brew on at the same time.
posted by regularfry at 3:59 PM on March 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
I have a feeling this is genuinely true, but haven't felt sufficiently enthused to go and look it up yet. It is, however, somewhat indicative that we have an entire power station built to buffer the effects of what happens when a large portion of the country decides to put a brew on at the same time.
posted by regularfry at 3:59 PM on March 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
you get two 120V lines running into the house wired 180 degrees out of phase so they can be wired back together for an overall potential of 240V.
Electricity here in Australia IIUC is delivered in three phases of 230VAC at 120 degrees to each other. Premises may be connected to one, two, or three of the phases, and each phase may drive different circuits in the home - occasionally you get a power failure on one phase and you see some homes still fully, and others only partially illuminated.
If premises are connected to all three phases the supply can drive 400VAC appliances (√3 *230), but these are less common in residential uses except for some heavy duty ovens and air conditioners.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:10 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
Electricity here in Australia IIUC is delivered in three phases of 230VAC at 120 degrees to each other. Premises may be connected to one, two, or three of the phases, and each phase may drive different circuits in the home - occasionally you get a power failure on one phase and you see some homes still fully, and others only partially illuminated.
If premises are connected to all three phases the supply can drive 400VAC appliances (√3 *230), but these are less common in residential uses except for some heavy duty ovens and air conditioners.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:10 PM on March 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
The article mentions this, but doesn't really explain it: UK wiring has a much different approach than most using a "Ring circuit" that starts at the circuit breaker, and instead of ending at the last outlet it runs back to the same circuit breaker. The circuit has a much higher rating (30A) than the plug (13A), so the fuse in the plug isn't an extra safety item, it's required. The loop is like using 2 wires instead of 1, so the standard is 2.5 sq mm wire on a 30A circuit, where the US standard is 3.3 sq mm (12 gauge) off of a 20A circuit, so 1/3 the power with thicker wire. Only disadvantage is that it's complex and you have to be very careful in wiring it since there's a lot of ways it can work but be unsafe.
posted by netowl at 4:13 PM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by netowl at 4:13 PM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Our house was mostly knob-and-tube wiring harness until about ten years ago. It worked fine for at least a century, don't know if the new wiring will last that long.
posted by octothorpe at 4:24 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 4:24 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
The UK plug is massive to ensure that anyone's buggered kettle doesn't burn their house down.
A netowl pointed out above, it has to be big enough to accommodate a fuse inside the plug for safety because of the UK use of the ring circuit.
The big advantage of the UK 230 volt system is that you can boil the water in your electric kettle in half the time of the U.S. -- 2 minutes for a liter of water instead of 4 minutes.
posted by JackFlash at 4:38 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
A netowl pointed out above, it has to be big enough to accommodate a fuse inside the plug for safety because of the UK use of the ring circuit.
The big advantage of the UK 230 volt system is that you can boil the water in your electric kettle in half the time of the U.S. -- 2 minutes for a liter of water instead of 4 minutes.
posted by JackFlash at 4:38 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
There is some absence of evidence to call South Africa a former UK colony.
Sorry for not adhering to British imperial terminology, I guess, but my point stands.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:55 PM on March 29, 2020
Sorry for not adhering to British imperial terminology, I guess, but my point stands.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 4:55 PM on March 29, 2020
I received, to put it in the polite terms Marjorie Meriweather Post might have gently employed, a massive motherfucking shit-loosening fuckshow of a lightning bolt, at which point I realized that all the wiring in the house was goddamned knob and tube bare wiring and I'd managed to clamber across thirty feet of death before getting that little warning shot over the bow.
Bare knob and tube wiring? That's crazy-daisy stuff--I assume that the cloth insulation must have rotted away over the years. The house I used to have in Memphis had knob-and-tube in the basement, and even though the insulation seemed intact, I kept well clear of it after hearing a lecture by someone I was acquainted with through church, an electrician who worked on the older houses in my neighborhood and whose general opinion seemed to be that it was best to replace it, but that he had come to a sort of bemused resignation that a lot of homeowners would keep at least some of it "for the authenticity."
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:09 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
Bare knob and tube wiring? That's crazy-daisy stuff--I assume that the cloth insulation must have rotted away over the years. The house I used to have in Memphis had knob-and-tube in the basement, and even though the insulation seemed intact, I kept well clear of it after hearing a lecture by someone I was acquainted with through church, an electrician who worked on the older houses in my neighborhood and whose general opinion seemed to be that it was best to replace it, but that he had come to a sort of bemused resignation that a lot of homeowners would keep at least some of it "for the authenticity."
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:09 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
„ 240V (along with all the concomitant over-engineering and attendance to safety that implies)“
Overengineered? At least our lights do no dim when we turn on the vacuum cleaner!
(But I‘m on board dissing ring circuits. There lies madness.)
posted by mmkhd at 5:37 PM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Overengineered?
(But I‘m on board dissing ring circuits. There lies madness.)
posted by mmkhd at 5:37 PM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
From this:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/House_Wiring_for_Beginners
Just searching for images of "consumer unit" versus "breaker box" you tend to see a lot more in the latter than the former.
posted by RobotHero at 5:58 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/House_Wiring_for_Beginners
Ring circuits from 32A MCBs in the CU supplying mains sockets. 2 such rings is typical for a 2 up 2 down, larger houses have more.My house is 720 square feet, but I counted, I have 9 breakers just for outlets. I'm skipping the lights, oven, air conditioner, dryer, and so on, just the ordinary outlets, that seems the proper comparison. Each of those breakers has its own circuit. If I'm interpreting that link correctly, in the UK a house my size would typically have only two circuits for the ordinary outlets. I have way more, but I guess it's because I'm in Canada and can't count on all the plugs having their own fuses. So those breakers are the only thing I've got.
Just searching for images of "consumer unit" versus "breaker box" you tend to see a lot more in the latter than the former.
posted by RobotHero at 5:58 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I love the british plug. It's a beast for an obsolete reason (ring mains), but it's still really conforting because of the many safety features.
The ring main is a circuit at 30 or 32A, often now fused with an RCD, one per floor. Spurs for things like cookers should also have a separate fused switch easily accessible for safety. If you get a short, the appliance wire is unlikely to be rated for 32A! Melting wires connected to 32A 240V is... suboptimal. Hence a separate fuse in the plug at a suitable rating (3 to 13A) to protect that.
But the bulk of the plug isn't really because of the fuse - it mostly fits inline with the pins. It's because there's a minimum distance between any of the 3 pins and the edge of the plug of 9.5mm, so you're much less likely to get your fingers touching the pins when you're inserting or removing the plug, and similarly with the socket. There's a a shaped grip, to encourage you to pull on the plug, not the cable to remove. There's a minimum insertion of about 1cm before you contact any live part of the socket. Nowadays, you also have sheathing on the pins both to again protect fingers, and even if the plug is partially out and something thin and metal falls between plug and socket it won't short.
The live and neutral pins in the socket are shuttered (since the 1920's!) so that foreign objects can't go in them - no need for socket protectors. The shutters can only be lifted by the earth pin, which is longer than the other 2 pins. (it can be replaced by a plastic pin for low current devices that don't need a separate earth). The earth pin is too big to go in either of the other holes, so no risk of trying to force the plug in the wrong way round even in the dark.
The cable goes into the bottom of the plug so again you're not encouraged to remove it by tugging on the cable and risking exposing bare wire. It's required to have moulded strain relief these days as well. It also means the cables naturally drape down; instead of sticking out and being prone to being knocked or half-pull out the plug when the cable is accidentally pulled.
Every socket also usually has a separate switch, so you can - and should - turn off the socket before inserting/removing a plug for additional safety.
For transport, if I'm taking a bunch of British plug devices, I plug them into a British multisocket (with separate switches per socket!) gangway, I then plug that plug into a travel adapter which has retractable/folding pins so no pins are sticking out to snag on anything. If I'm just taking a laptop, I either use the compact travel adapter on that plug, or better yet just take a figure-of-8 lead with a europlug on it instead of the British one.
But I have to say, every time I go to France and see some 2 pin 240V unearthed europlug sagging down, partly due to the weight of the wire sticking straight out the shitty fragile socket, just waiting to be knocked out the unswitched socket I want to go nowhere near the lethal fucking thing.
The British plug is proper old-school engineering where safety was taken to rediculous extremes. But it works. I've never got a shock off mains from a plug or socket, and neither has anyone I know. (I've had a mains shock off jerryrigged lab equipment though, and that was... not fun). But 240V means we have kettles and coffee machines that work properly - and SAFELY - which is the important thing.
We do use a 2 pin europlug style 'shaver' socket (the pins are slightly closer together) - it's limited to 0.2A and must be kept a minimum distance from water sources. No normal sockets or even lightswitches in the bathroom, because wet hands and electricity is a bad idea.
The different types of lightbulb sockets... Well, the british socket is the bayonet type. The edison (E27) and small edison screw (E14) are from the US originally, and has spread across Europe, so most plug-in lamps now use one of those two (with the E10 standard for torches) rather than have separate lamps just for the UK, while ceiling bulbs still use the bayonet, but even that is fading out. Obviously different types are used for size reasons in what were originally halogen bulb sockets, mostly GU10.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:10 PM on March 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
The ring main is a circuit at 30 or 32A, often now fused with an RCD, one per floor. Spurs for things like cookers should also have a separate fused switch easily accessible for safety. If you get a short, the appliance wire is unlikely to be rated for 32A! Melting wires connected to 32A 240V is... suboptimal. Hence a separate fuse in the plug at a suitable rating (3 to 13A) to protect that.
But the bulk of the plug isn't really because of the fuse - it mostly fits inline with the pins. It's because there's a minimum distance between any of the 3 pins and the edge of the plug of 9.5mm, so you're much less likely to get your fingers touching the pins when you're inserting or removing the plug, and similarly with the socket. There's a a shaped grip, to encourage you to pull on the plug, not the cable to remove. There's a minimum insertion of about 1cm before you contact any live part of the socket. Nowadays, you also have sheathing on the pins both to again protect fingers, and even if the plug is partially out and something thin and metal falls between plug and socket it won't short.
The live and neutral pins in the socket are shuttered (since the 1920's!) so that foreign objects can't go in them - no need for socket protectors. The shutters can only be lifted by the earth pin, which is longer than the other 2 pins. (it can be replaced by a plastic pin for low current devices that don't need a separate earth). The earth pin is too big to go in either of the other holes, so no risk of trying to force the plug in the wrong way round even in the dark.
The cable goes into the bottom of the plug so again you're not encouraged to remove it by tugging on the cable and risking exposing bare wire. It's required to have moulded strain relief these days as well. It also means the cables naturally drape down; instead of sticking out and being prone to being knocked or half-pull out the plug when the cable is accidentally pulled.
Every socket also usually has a separate switch, so you can - and should - turn off the socket before inserting/removing a plug for additional safety.
For transport, if I'm taking a bunch of British plug devices, I plug them into a British multisocket (with separate switches per socket!) gangway, I then plug that plug into a travel adapter which has retractable/folding pins so no pins are sticking out to snag on anything. If I'm just taking a laptop, I either use the compact travel adapter on that plug, or better yet just take a figure-of-8 lead with a europlug on it instead of the British one.
But I have to say, every time I go to France and see some 2 pin 240V unearthed europlug sagging down, partly due to the weight of the wire sticking straight out the shitty fragile socket, just waiting to be knocked out the unswitched socket I want to go nowhere near the lethal fucking thing.
The British plug is proper old-school engineering where safety was taken to rediculous extremes. But it works. I've never got a shock off mains from a plug or socket, and neither has anyone I know. (I've had a mains shock off jerryrigged lab equipment though, and that was... not fun). But 240V means we have kettles and coffee machines that work properly - and SAFELY - which is the important thing.
We do use a 2 pin europlug style 'shaver' socket (the pins are slightly closer together) - it's limited to 0.2A and must be kept a minimum distance from water sources. No normal sockets or even lightswitches in the bathroom, because wet hands and electricity is a bad idea.
The different types of lightbulb sockets... Well, the british socket is the bayonet type. The edison (E27) and small edison screw (E14) are from the US originally, and has spread across Europe, so most plug-in lamps now use one of those two (with the E10 standard for torches) rather than have separate lamps just for the UK, while ceiling bulbs still use the bayonet, but even that is fading out. Obviously different types are used for size reasons in what were originally halogen bulb sockets, mostly GU10.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 6:10 PM on March 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
I had a restaurant that was housed in a 100 year old building in Los Angeles. Lath and plaster (read: cardboard) construction that probably wasn't intended to last more than 20 years.
When I moved in and started renovating, I'd already had about 15 years of sideline experience building recording studios - which usually involved adding a new breaker sub-panel and a bunch of very careful wiring to avoid ground loops and make sure all the big bits of gear and HVAC get enough juice. So, I felt I had it all in hand. It had been a working restaurant up until a couple weeks before I got the keys, after all.
Luckily, I had 3 friends who were professional electricians. I would need them all, in turn.
The breaker panel was old and incorrectly marked. I discovered that it used a mostly obsolete form factor for the individual breakers that would be very expensive to replace. The tangle of mystery wiring came in to the breaker panel from above the ceiling. The expansive attic area was strung with 5 or 6 generations of old wiring. It looked like anytime someone needed to upgrade or repair anything, they just ran new wiring and left the old stuff in place.
It quickly became apparent that we'd have to do the same if we didn't want to tear the building down to its (questionable) bones.
A new exterior junction box was installed (of course the existing one wasn't up to code!), and the whole breaker panel was replaced and moved over a few feet. New holes were drilled, old ones patched up, and all new wire pulled. Exasperated and behind schedule, I delegated most of this work - saving my DIY spirit for the plumbing nightmares.
There's probably still a couple hundred dollars in scrap copper in that building, but you'd need a bulldozer to get it out.
posted by Anoplura at 6:59 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
When I moved in and started renovating, I'd already had about 15 years of sideline experience building recording studios - which usually involved adding a new breaker sub-panel and a bunch of very careful wiring to avoid ground loops and make sure all the big bits of gear and HVAC get enough juice. So, I felt I had it all in hand. It had been a working restaurant up until a couple weeks before I got the keys, after all.
Luckily, I had 3 friends who were professional electricians. I would need them all, in turn.
The breaker panel was old and incorrectly marked. I discovered that it used a mostly obsolete form factor for the individual breakers that would be very expensive to replace. The tangle of mystery wiring came in to the breaker panel from above the ceiling. The expansive attic area was strung with 5 or 6 generations of old wiring. It looked like anytime someone needed to upgrade or repair anything, they just ran new wiring and left the old stuff in place.
It quickly became apparent that we'd have to do the same if we didn't want to tear the building down to its (questionable) bones.
A new exterior junction box was installed (of course the existing one wasn't up to code!), and the whole breaker panel was replaced and moved over a few feet. New holes were drilled, old ones patched up, and all new wire pulled. Exasperated and behind schedule, I delegated most of this work - saving my DIY spirit for the plumbing nightmares.
There's probably still a couple hundred dollars in scrap copper in that building, but you'd need a bulldozer to get it out.
posted by Anoplura at 6:59 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lath and plaster (read: cardboard)
Huh? Lath is wood. Drywall is closer to cardboard than lath and plaster is.
posted by Automocar at 7:25 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Huh? Lath is wood. Drywall is closer to cardboard than lath and plaster is.
posted by Automocar at 7:25 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
At least most countries have the same frequency internally … except Japan, of course, which has an even split between 50 Hz and 60 Hz grids. So appliances bought on one side of the country probably won't work on the other.
We should bring back 25 Hz grids, like the first one in Ontario.
posted by scruss at 7:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
We should bring back 25 Hz grids, like the first one in Ontario.
posted by scruss at 7:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
My family moved to England from the US in 1986. I remember that we brought a few "American" appliances with us - maybe the Commodore 64? kitchen stuff? - and for each one we wanted to plug in we had to use a transformer roughly the size of a metal ammo case to step the current down to 110v.
posted by bendy at 7:58 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by bendy at 7:58 PM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
The thing is that buggered kettles don't burn down houses much at all. At least not in 120V land.
Space heaters and A/Cs are notorious house burners though.
In real life, the type A and B designs most common in North America aren't much of a problem. Well designed shuttered sockets are a good idea that's never really caught on though. The only one's I've seen in the US are most often used on power strips and child-proofing wall socket covers, and I find really annoying, where you have to insert the plug and twist or slide the shutter to match the socket.
Tamper resistant receptacles have been required in occupancies for 15 years now in Canada. The shutters won't open unless both prongs are inserted equally so are proof against forks and screwdrivers.
Electricity here in Australia IIUC is delivered in three phases of 230VAC at 120 degrees to each other. Premises may be connected to one, two, or three of the phases, and each phase may drive different circuits in the home - occasionally you get a power failure on one phase and you see some homes still fully, and others only partially illuminated.
Three phase power is standard in the US (480) and Canada (600) too. But you have to have massive residence to receive three phase power. Most homes only get single phase even if three phase is available in the building (such as with apartment buildings).
My house is 720 square feet, but I counted, I have 9 breakers just for outlets. I'm skipping the lights, oven, air conditioner, dryer, and so on, just the ordinary outlets, that seems the proper comparison. Each of those breakers has its own circuit. If I'm interpreting that link correctly, in the UK a house my size would typically have only two circuits for the ordinary outlets. I have way more, but I guess it's because I'm in Canada and can't count on all the plugs having their own fuses. So those breakers are the only thing I've got.
Canadian code has drifted to requiring dedicated circuits for a whole stack of items. Fridge, every 6' of kitchen counter, washing machine, exterior receptacle, utility room, etc. so the breaker count is high even though you'll never approach anywhere near 9 x 15A of power.
RE: bare knob and tube. A lot of the conductors used during the knob and tube era were insulated with rubber which has completely dried out and the slightest pressure causes the insulation to explode off the wire. This is why it is dangerous and generally required to be removed by insurance companies.
The big advantage of the UK 230 volt system is that you can boil the water in your electric kettle in half the time of the U.S.
One of the weird things is US/Canada homes have 230V available. I've got 240V outlets in my kitchen and shop to power 240V appliances (hotplate and vacuum). We generally just choose not to provide that sort of power. The even make duplex receptacles that provide separate 120V and 240V outlets on a single strap.
Socket incompatibility is half physical limitations (don't want to be using a mogul base in your chandelier) and half making sure people don't plug in bulbs that would overload the circuit. That is why things like the GU-10 and GX-24 exist.
Fun fact on bulbs: some public places (I think the NY subway is one) have left hand thread edison base bulbs. It discourages people from stealing them because they won't work in standard right hand thread sockets.
posted by Mitheral at 8:26 PM on March 29, 2020 [9 favorites]
Space heaters and A/Cs are notorious house burners though.
In real life, the type A and B designs most common in North America aren't much of a problem. Well designed shuttered sockets are a good idea that's never really caught on though. The only one's I've seen in the US are most often used on power strips and child-proofing wall socket covers, and I find really annoying, where you have to insert the plug and twist or slide the shutter to match the socket.
Tamper resistant receptacles have been required in occupancies for 15 years now in Canada. The shutters won't open unless both prongs are inserted equally so are proof against forks and screwdrivers.
Electricity here in Australia IIUC is delivered in three phases of 230VAC at 120 degrees to each other. Premises may be connected to one, two, or three of the phases, and each phase may drive different circuits in the home - occasionally you get a power failure on one phase and you see some homes still fully, and others only partially illuminated.
Three phase power is standard in the US (480) and Canada (600) too. But you have to have massive residence to receive three phase power. Most homes only get single phase even if three phase is available in the building (such as with apartment buildings).
My house is 720 square feet, but I counted, I have 9 breakers just for outlets. I'm skipping the lights, oven, air conditioner, dryer, and so on, just the ordinary outlets, that seems the proper comparison. Each of those breakers has its own circuit. If I'm interpreting that link correctly, in the UK a house my size would typically have only two circuits for the ordinary outlets. I have way more, but I guess it's because I'm in Canada and can't count on all the plugs having their own fuses. So those breakers are the only thing I've got.
Canadian code has drifted to requiring dedicated circuits for a whole stack of items. Fridge, every 6' of kitchen counter, washing machine, exterior receptacle, utility room, etc. so the breaker count is high even though you'll never approach anywhere near 9 x 15A of power.
RE: bare knob and tube. A lot of the conductors used during the knob and tube era were insulated with rubber which has completely dried out and the slightest pressure causes the insulation to explode off the wire. This is why it is dangerous and generally required to be removed by insurance companies.
The big advantage of the UK 230 volt system is that you can boil the water in your electric kettle in half the time of the U.S.
One of the weird things is US/Canada homes have 230V available. I've got 240V outlets in my kitchen and shop to power 240V appliances (hotplate and vacuum). We generally just choose not to provide that sort of power. The even make duplex receptacles that provide separate 120V and 240V outlets on a single strap.
Socket incompatibility is half physical limitations (don't want to be using a mogul base in your chandelier) and half making sure people don't plug in bulbs that would overload the circuit. That is why things like the GU-10 and GX-24 exist.
Fun fact on bulbs: some public places (I think the NY subway is one) have left hand thread edison base bulbs. It discourages people from stealing them because they won't work in standard right hand thread sockets.
posted by Mitheral at 8:26 PM on March 29, 2020 [9 favorites]
If I were in Home Alone I would def use U.K. and AUS plug adapters as traps for the bad guys to step on. They always end up on the floor with the painful side pointing upwards.
posted by capnsue at 10:05 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by capnsue at 10:05 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lath and plaster (read: cardboard) construction that probably wasn't intended to last more than 20 years.
Huh, lath and plaster around here lasts no problem a hundred years, with the hundred-year-old live knob-and-tube entombed within it. The hassles with lath and plaster are not that it's flimsy, but the opposite -- there's no way to Sawzall a section out like drywall, you have to chisel and saw your way in. Trying to drill a small hole will 50% hit some harder chunk and snap your drillbit; trying to drill a larger hole will 50% likewise bind and kick your hand drill around. Also, studfinders are next to useless because there's so much dense material over the studs.
Never, ever rent a lath-and-plaster place where the builders didn't have the good grace to put in picture-hanging rails.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Huh, lath and plaster around here lasts no problem a hundred years, with the hundred-year-old live knob-and-tube entombed within it. The hassles with lath and plaster are not that it's flimsy, but the opposite -- there's no way to Sawzall a section out like drywall, you have to chisel and saw your way in. Trying to drill a small hole will 50% hit some harder chunk and snap your drillbit; trying to drill a larger hole will 50% likewise bind and kick your hand drill around. Also, studfinders are next to useless because there's so much dense material over the studs.
Never, ever rent a lath-and-plaster place where the builders didn't have the good grace to put in picture-hanging rails.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:45 PM on March 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
I wish most of the walls in my house were plaster over lath but they're actually plaster right over brick. That made rewiring the place a challenge because you can't run wires inside any of the exterior walls. We ended up having to run surface conduit on those walls because the only other solution would be to chisel channels through the plaster and brick and then replaster over that.
posted by octothorpe at 4:01 AM on March 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:01 AM on March 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
World Plugs by Location (all 502 of them) by the International Electrotechnical Commission. Click Expand All in the chart header to see plug diagrams.
posted by cenoxo at 4:15 AM on March 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 4:15 AM on March 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
bayonet types
Man, fuck a bunch of bayonet mounts. Few things are less fun than standing on the top of a stepladder with your hand barely fitting inside a light fixture, desperately trying to strike that delicate balance between enough force to find the slots for the pins on the bulb and not quite enough force to break it off at the base, and then hoping you can twist it in just so so that it both makes contact and stays put so you can get down off the goddamned stepladder...
Give me a screw mount (ooh, matron) any day.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:40 AM on March 30, 2020 [10 favorites]
Man, fuck a bunch of bayonet mounts. Few things are less fun than standing on the top of a stepladder with your hand barely fitting inside a light fixture, desperately trying to strike that delicate balance between enough force to find the slots for the pins on the bulb and not quite enough force to break it off at the base, and then hoping you can twist it in just so so that it both makes contact and stays put so you can get down off the goddamned stepladder...
Give me a screw mount (ooh, matron) any day.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:40 AM on March 30, 2020 [10 favorites]
Electricity here in Australia IIUC is delivered in three phases of 230VAC at 120 degrees to each other. Premises may be connected to one, two, or three of the phases, and each phase may drive different circuits in the home - occasionally you get a power failure on one phase and you see some homes still fully, and others only partially illuminated.
If premises are connected to all three phases the supply can drive 400VAC appliances (√3 *230), but these are less common in residential uses except for some heavy duty ovens and air conditioners.
Interesting. Very rare for houses to be connected to more than one phase here in the UK but then we don't usually have residential air conditioners. Houses are usually connected to alternate phases on a road but they are usually all coming off the same distribution transformer so it would be unusual for one to go off and not the others.
UK usually has a wye connected three phase system. Three single phase and one shared neutral come out of the distribution transformer. Houses alternate phases and are on a shared neutral. (Sometimes there is a shared ground as well and sometimes they're bonded together with the neutral).
US has a variety of arrangements but the most common is two phase and a neutral. 115v is phase-neutral and 230v is phase-phase.
posted by atrazine at 6:56 AM on March 30, 2020
If premises are connected to all three phases the supply can drive 400VAC appliances (√3 *230), but these are less common in residential uses except for some heavy duty ovens and air conditioners.
Interesting. Very rare for houses to be connected to more than one phase here in the UK but then we don't usually have residential air conditioners. Houses are usually connected to alternate phases on a road but they are usually all coming off the same distribution transformer so it would be unusual for one to go off and not the others.
UK usually has a wye connected three phase system. Three single phase and one shared neutral come out of the distribution transformer. Houses alternate phases and are on a shared neutral. (Sometimes there is a shared ground as well and sometimes they're bonded together with the neutral).
US has a variety of arrangements but the most common is two phase and a neutral. 115v is phase-neutral and 230v is phase-phase.
posted by atrazine at 6:56 AM on March 30, 2020
Common US residential power is usually single phase 240V with a centre tapped neutral giving the two different voltages. Places where you you are getting two (out of three) phases at 120 degrees you can tell because your phase to phase voltage is only 208V.
There was some two phase power (at 90 degrees) in New York and California and still in Pennsylvania. But the supply authorities paid to have the 2 phase equipment upgraded (usually via VFD) and discontinued two phase supply a few years ago in most places.
posted by Mitheral at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2020
There was some two phase power (at 90 degrees) in New York and California and still in Pennsylvania. But the supply authorities paid to have the 2 phase equipment upgraded (usually via VFD) and discontinued two phase supply a few years ago in most places.
posted by Mitheral at 8:15 AM on March 30, 2020
I am learning a lot.
posted by RobotHero at 1:16 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 1:16 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
The thing is that buggered kettles don't burn down houses much at all. At least not in 120V land.
Space heaters and A/Cs are notorious house burners though.
Giant fused plugs don't fix that problem, though.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Space heaters and A/Cs are notorious house burners though.
Giant fused plugs don't fix that problem, though.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:48 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Giant fused plugs don't fix that problem, though
Insurers: We'll give you a discount if your wiring uses this standard with low fire danger
Customers: But it won't charge my indoor flamethrower!
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 5:05 PM on March 30, 2020
Insurers: We'll give you a discount if your wiring uses this standard with low fire danger
Customers: But it won't charge my indoor flamethrower!
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 5:05 PM on March 30, 2020
Universal outlets are the best. I'm spoiled for life by the time I spent in SEA. I can't understand why everyone else doesn't move to them.
I can one-up everyone here on knob and tube wiring! House built in the 1880s with gas lighting. When they converted to electric, they installed knob and tube wiring...along the gas lighting lines, and then capped the gas lines. The still-live gas lines.
When I wanted to replace the fixture in my room, I brought an electrician friend over. She turned absolutely white when she got into the setup. She said we needed an expert to replace any fixture so we didn't blow ourselves up. (I decided not to replace the fixture.)
That was the same house that had rolled-up copies of the Boston Globe between the outer wall and the inner plaster lathe walls as insulation. It's a miracle we all made it out alive, honestly.
I went by there a couple of years ago. The new owners had decided to "renovate" the house by taking it down to the frame, inside and out. It would have been cheaper to burn the thing to the ground and start over, but...zoning laws.
posted by rednikki at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can one-up everyone here on knob and tube wiring! House built in the 1880s with gas lighting. When they converted to electric, they installed knob and tube wiring...along the gas lighting lines, and then capped the gas lines. The still-live gas lines.
When I wanted to replace the fixture in my room, I brought an electrician friend over. She turned absolutely white when she got into the setup. She said we needed an expert to replace any fixture so we didn't blow ourselves up. (I decided not to replace the fixture.)
That was the same house that had rolled-up copies of the Boston Globe between the outer wall and the inner plaster lathe walls as insulation. It's a miracle we all made it out alive, honestly.
I went by there a couple of years ago. The new owners had decided to "renovate" the house by taking it down to the frame, inside and out. It would have been cheaper to burn the thing to the ground and start over, but...zoning laws.
posted by rednikki at 5:24 PM on March 30, 2020 [2 favorites]
A lot of old retrofit installs used the disconnected gas lines as a conduit. Considering the small size and the tight radiuses it must have been a real tough job to pull the wire thru.
Giant fused plugs don't fix that problem, though.
The physical size of the prong has a direct bearing on how much it'll heat under current and how well the heat will be dissipated. The large size also helps with heat dissipation. High amperage sockets in the US/Canada are much larger than household receptacles with thicker prongs and they stand up to abuse much better even when used for stuff like welders which are being unplugged and plugged in all the time.
The lack of heat dissipation is one of the factors that cause power bars to so readily burn up (don't get me wrong, it's 90% cheap construction). Heavy duty power bars intended for permanent installation in commercial or industrial spaces are a) made of metal and b) have much wider receptacle spacing.
For anyone following along at home in the US/Canada compare the size of your dryer/range receptacle and the one on your kettle. Twice the current but at least 5X as beefy. The range receptacle didn't have the design constraint that it be able to fit inside a standard edison screw base. If we were starting from scratch the north american receptacle/plug would look a lot more like the UK version than the NEMA version.
posted by Mitheral at 9:40 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
There is some absence of evidence to call South Africa a former UK colony.
posted by glasseyes at 11:41 PM on March 29
Anyone care to explain this throwaway comment? I'm confused.
posted by Acey at 2:02 AM on March 31, 2020
posted by glasseyes at 11:41 PM on March 29
Anyone care to explain this throwaway comment? I'm confused.
posted by Acey at 2:02 AM on March 31, 2020
Anyone care to explain this throwaway comment? I'm confused.
I presume they’re referring to the strong Dutch influenced history of S.Africa. The Cape was a Dutch colony for longer than it was a British one & the Boers fought the British for a century & arguably won in the end, taking full control of S.Africa in 1930 after the British "granted" full self-government. S. Africa quit the Commonwealth altogether in 1960.
“Is South Africa a former UK colony?” is one of those “technically yes, but maybe in actuality no” things. Culturally & socially it developed along very, very different lines than other former UK colonies & there are good reasons why that is the case.
(This is not to excuse the UK from responsibility for the terrible things that we did do in pursuit of Empire at the southern end of Africa.)
posted by pharm at 2:32 AM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
I presume they’re referring to the strong Dutch influenced history of S.Africa. The Cape was a Dutch colony for longer than it was a British one & the Boers fought the British for a century & arguably won in the end, taking full control of S.Africa in 1930 after the British "granted" full self-government. S. Africa quit the Commonwealth altogether in 1960.
“Is South Africa a former UK colony?” is one of those “technically yes, but maybe in actuality no” things. Culturally & socially it developed along very, very different lines than other former UK colonies & there are good reasons why that is the case.
(This is not to excuse the UK from responsibility for the terrible things that we did do in pursuit of Empire at the southern end of Africa.)
posted by pharm at 2:32 AM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
A lot of old retrofit installs used the disconnected gas lines as a conduit. Considering the small size and the tight radiuses it must have been a real tough job to pull the wire thru.
My house was built in 1913 and suffers from this. Cloth wrapped rubber in old gas pipe. Interesting fact. Gas pipe boxes aren't the same size as electrical boxes, so that ceiling fan isn't going to be installed without a bit of ingenuity.
I got the fan up there by fabricating a bracket but discovered that the rubber coating the wires had all dried up and cracked, and will short out if you move it. THAT is when I called in a licensed electrician. He showed me that the first thing you do is put on shrink tubing as far back as you can get before fucking around with it.
Electrician liked my bracket though.
posted by mikelieman at 2:53 AM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
My house was built in 1913 and suffers from this. Cloth wrapped rubber in old gas pipe. Interesting fact. Gas pipe boxes aren't the same size as electrical boxes, so that ceiling fan isn't going to be installed without a bit of ingenuity.
I got the fan up there by fabricating a bracket but discovered that the rubber coating the wires had all dried up and cracked, and will short out if you move it. THAT is when I called in a licensed electrician. He showed me that the first thing you do is put on shrink tubing as far back as you can get before fucking around with it.
Electrician liked my bracket though.
posted by mikelieman at 2:53 AM on March 31, 2020 [3 favorites]
A lot of old retrofit installs used the disconnected gas lines as a conduit. Considering the small size and the tight radiuses it must have been a real tough job to pull the wire thru.
We found this in our house. Fortunately the previous owners had rewired since the original electrification & dealt with that particular source of horror then, but the cables & gas pipes were still there in a few places.
posted by pharm at 3:00 AM on March 31, 2020
We found this in our house. Fortunately the previous owners had rewired since the original electrification & dealt with that particular source of horror then, but the cables & gas pipes were still there in a few places.
posted by pharm at 3:00 AM on March 31, 2020
My dad's uncle was a plumber and (from what I was told) became his village's first electrician Before The War. And now I know why/how. Thanks!
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:52 AM on March 31, 2020
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:52 AM on March 31, 2020
We have a couple dual-function gas and electric light fixtures that came with the house. When we rewired, we had them restored to current spec as electric only but originally you could had a gas flame coming out of the top of the fixture and and electric light bulb lit on the bottom.
posted by octothorpe at 4:48 AM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:48 AM on March 31, 2020 [2 favorites]
Thanks Pharm, much appreciated. I can sense a wikipedia binge coming on...
posted by Acey at 5:51 AM on March 31, 2020
posted by Acey at 5:51 AM on March 31, 2020
sonascope, here's at least one version of a Teasmade-type appliance, wired for North America.
I've actually got that one, and it works well, though the 90s look is galling to me, as an aspirant to a Goblin D25. The part I'd never considered in my wild years of teasmade-desiring is that putting cream in the cup before bed yields off cream, so I still have to stumble downstairs to complete my customary cup of Barry's Gold.
On the knob-and-tube wiring I was describing earlier, the fun part is that that house was built in 1910-1915 or thereabouts, so there were gas lines to every light fixture in addition to the k-and-t, which made my cowboy rewiring trick of hooking up freshly rebuilt lighting fixtures without switching off the breakers extra stupid (I've since repented on that shortcut, after at least one ladder-top near electrocution coupled with frantically hanging onto an irreplaceable vintage fixture). It was always interesting to work in that house, which constantly reminded me how long a hundred years is in terms of how we build and provision buildings now. I was a huge fan of the cooling pantry cabinet in the butler's pantry, which had a shaft going from the basement up to the roof, with a black-painted metal hood that would set up convection to pull cool basement air through the slatted shelves in the cabinet. So smart.
Back when I used to run the circa-1911 Bromo Seltzer Tower in Baltimore (where I once had a MeFi meetup, for those that remember), one of my fascinations was the original elevator drive hardware, particularly for the all-original manual elevator, both of which would fire up a massive AC-powered DC genset with a sound like warp drives coming online to power the original DC traction motors because the original DC mains that the system was built for had long since shut down. When I investigated, you could find remnants of the original baseball-bat-thick copper supply lines left behind here and there that had once connected into one of the many DC generation stations that were needed because you couldn't run heavy DC for long runs. I always love that sort of modern infrastructure archeology, where you can find the history of old things left like dinosaur bones buried in sandstone. The history of connectors is similarly fascinating, with clues to origins often left behind in forms that still echo long-forgotten design specs. Neat stuff.
posted by sonascope at 6:32 AM on March 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
I've actually got that one, and it works well, though the 90s look is galling to me, as an aspirant to a Goblin D25. The part I'd never considered in my wild years of teasmade-desiring is that putting cream in the cup before bed yields off cream, so I still have to stumble downstairs to complete my customary cup of Barry's Gold.
On the knob-and-tube wiring I was describing earlier, the fun part is that that house was built in 1910-1915 or thereabouts, so there were gas lines to every light fixture in addition to the k-and-t, which made my cowboy rewiring trick of hooking up freshly rebuilt lighting fixtures without switching off the breakers extra stupid (I've since repented on that shortcut, after at least one ladder-top near electrocution coupled with frantically hanging onto an irreplaceable vintage fixture). It was always interesting to work in that house, which constantly reminded me how long a hundred years is in terms of how we build and provision buildings now. I was a huge fan of the cooling pantry cabinet in the butler's pantry, which had a shaft going from the basement up to the roof, with a black-painted metal hood that would set up convection to pull cool basement air through the slatted shelves in the cabinet. So smart.
Back when I used to run the circa-1911 Bromo Seltzer Tower in Baltimore (where I once had a MeFi meetup, for those that remember), one of my fascinations was the original elevator drive hardware, particularly for the all-original manual elevator, both of which would fire up a massive AC-powered DC genset with a sound like warp drives coming online to power the original DC traction motors because the original DC mains that the system was built for had long since shut down. When I investigated, you could find remnants of the original baseball-bat-thick copper supply lines left behind here and there that had once connected into one of the many DC generation stations that were needed because you couldn't run heavy DC for long runs. I always love that sort of modern infrastructure archeology, where you can find the history of old things left like dinosaur bones buried in sandstone. The history of connectors is similarly fascinating, with clues to origins often left behind in forms that still echo long-forgotten design specs. Neat stuff.
posted by sonascope at 6:32 AM on March 31, 2020 [5 favorites]
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posted by evilmomlady at 8:04 AM on March 29, 2020 [9 favorites]